This month, we returned to two more favorite Clever episodes from the past ten years. Read on to learn what both of these brilliant creatives have been up to since their episodes aired!

From the archives, Juny 11, 2019: Ivy Ross

Google’s Head of Hardware Design, Ivy Ross, learned from her industrial designer father how to see the world for how it’s made, and for the possibilities of how it could be remade. Early professional success as a jewelry designer taught her that life is not about ego hits, it’s about the journey. Fueled by curiosity, she’s traveled through the corporate world as a way to keep learning. She approaches work like conducting an orchestra - drawing out the best in individuals to create beautiful music as a team. Listen:

Listen to Ep. 89 on Cleverpodcast.com

Since Ivy’s episode aired in 2019, Ivy was named one of Fast Company’s 100 Most Creative People in Business. In 2023, she coauthored the New York Times bestseller Your Brain on Art: How the Arts Transforms Us, focusing on the importance of neuroaesthetics in the design industry. She created Making Sense of Color, an immersive installation at 2024’s Salone del Mobile, and continues to lead Google’s hardware design in more innovative and groundbreaking ways, and, as of recently, hosts a phenomenal new podcast - Phenomena Healing! Check it out wherever you like to listen.

Where you can follow Ivy and her work:

Ivy’s Linkedin

From the archives, June 13, 2024: Idris Brewster

Artist, creative technologist, and educator, Idris Brewster grew up in Brooklyn, being filmed for a documentary about his education as a black student at a prestigious, primarily white, school. His coming-of-age, only partially caught on camera, included a lot of basketball and hands-on artistic development. A grant awarded in college gave him early access to VR technology which opened a path to combining all of his talents and interests and expressing them through new media. Now, as co-founder and Executive Director of Kinfolk Foundation, he’s harnessing augmented reality, location-based technology, and community to engage in placing digital monuments in public spaces, memory building, and foregrounding the Black, Brown and Queer histories that have been intentionally silenced.

Listen to Ep. 215 on Cleverpodcast.com

Since his episode aired in 2024, Idris and the team at Kinfolk have been busy! Last year, they piloted their first Community Memory Fellowship, created their first festival and exhibition, and continued to partner with artists, institutions, and grassroots organizations. He became an Ashoka Fellow in 2025, continuing to transform place-based memory into a new form of strategic civic power.

Where you can follow Idris and his work:

Idris’ instagram
Idris’ Linkedin
Kinfolk’s website
Kinfolk’s instagram

Head to cleverpodcast.com for a transcript (with links!) of this episode, images, resources, and over 200+ more episodes!

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This month, we returned to two more favorite Clever episodes from the past ten years. Read on to learn what both of these brilliant creatives have been up to since their episodes aired!

From the archives, May 2, 2017: Gary Hustwit

Filmmaker, photographer and perpetual entrepreneur Gary Hustwit connects the dots of his DIY-driven path through independent music, independent publishing, and independent films, to his current preoccupation with non-fiction VR. Along the way he deconstructs the methods to his madness and expounds on the popularity of his trilogy of design documentaries: Helvetica, Objectified and Urbanized. Plus he teases a bit about his forthcoming doc about Dieter Rams, and confesses that an early disdain for avocados didn’t prevent him from capitalizing on their market-appeal.

Listen to Ep. 29 at Cleverpodcast.com

Since Gary’s episode aired, the documentary on Dieter Rams, Rams, premiered in the fall of 2018 to wide acclaim. More recently, Gary created Eno, an award-winning generative documentary about Brian Eno, which used bespoke generative technology for the creation and exhibition of the film. Eno was shortlisted for the Academy Award for Best Documentary Feature in 2024! Gary also created What Are People For, a short doc about the strategic design pioneer Patrick Whitney that just premiered last month in Germany! His work has been premiered at Sundance, SXSW, TIFF, and exhibited at the MoMA, Smithsonian Cooper Hewitt, Design Museum London, Venice Biennale, and the V&A Museum.

Where you can follow Gary and his work:

Gary’s website
Gary’s instagram

From the archives, February 22, 2022: Avery Trufelman

Brooklyn-based podcaster Avery Trufelman has radio in her DNA. Her parents met while working at WNYC, so from birth she was nurtured with love and appreciation for radio. As a teenager, Avery took to expressing herself through wild, quirky thrifted fashion ensembles, much to the confusion of her peers. After cutting her audio teeth in college radio, Avery submitted a midnight application to intern at 99% Invisible and moved across the country to work in a closet with Roman Mars in “beautiful downtown Oakland.” When 99pi and the field of podcasting blew up, Avery was on the rocket ship. She’s since created an acclaimed 2-season series, Articles of Interest, around iconic items of clothing – which makes her teenage sartorial obsessions all add up – and worked on Nice Try! and The Cut. She’s a dynamic and thoughtful voice in the podcasting landscape, as always, making distinctive and bold style choices.

Listen to Ep. 165 on Cleverpodcast.com

Since her episode first aired, Avery has continued to dive into the world of design and fashion - creating new seasons of her hit podcast, Articles of Interest, focused on everything from Gorpcore and performance clothing to preppy subculture and American factory conditions. Her podcast was called a “go-to podcast for fashion history” as Avery continues to push the boundaries of fashion journalism, exploring fascinating stories at the intersection of makers, designers, and wearers.

Where you can follow Avery and her work:

Avery’s website
Avery’s podcasts

Head to cleverpodcast.com for a transcript (with links!) of this episode, images, resources, and over 200+ more episodes!

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Last month, we reshared two more favorite Clever episodes from the past ten years. Read on to learn what both of these brilliant creatives have been up to since their episodes aired!

From the archives, September 20, 2016: Tanya Aguiñiga

Mexican and American artist/designer/maker/activist Tanya Aguiñiga shares with Jaime and Amy what it was like growing up in Tijuana and crossing the US border every day to attend school in the US, how an accidental haircut during her troubled teenage years got her kicked out of the house, and how a dedicated mentor gave her the encouragement she needed to become an artist. She also recounts a few crazy stories featuring a clown, a bull and an eagle.

Listen to ep. 13 on Cleverpodcast.com

Clever: What have you been up to since your episode aired in 2016?

Tanya: I received some major arts and humanitarian awards (Heinz Prize, Americans For the Arts Johnston Fellowship for Artists Transforming Communities, and the US Latinx Forum Award)!

AMBOS is also a 501-c3 non-profit now, and has been a grantee for a few grants/awards, including RUTH Arts. AMBOS has also been having its own shows, and they are in our 6th year of running a trauma-informed ceramics program at at 3 LGBTQ+ Migrant Shelters in Tijuana.

Can you share some reflections from your Clever conversation a decade ago?

I love and miss my dearest Amy. I cherish any chance we get to talk, and am so grateful that audiences and friends can get a sneak peek into our friendship by listening to Clever :)

Where you can follow Tanya and her work:

Tanya’s website
Tanya’s instagram
AMBOS website

From the archives, October 17, 2023: Patricial Urquiola

For our very special 200th episode, we’re joined by world-renowned architect and designer Patricia Urquiola. While she’s now known internationally, growing up in Spain as the middle child she was often forgotten. She found a certain joy in this freedom of being “in between”. Declaring she’d be an architect at age 13, she went on to study with the pioneers of the time, growing her roots in systemic thinking and Magic Rationalism. Now, Studio Urquiola is a powerhouse of international design. Having already made an indelible mark on the built world, Patricia continues to be a trailblazer of the “in between” – transforming how architecture, design, art, virtual space and AI all interact today, and how we think about the future.

Listen to ep. 200 on Cleverpodcast.com

Since her episode first aired, Patricia continues to transform how architecture, design, art, virtual space and AI all interact today, and how we think about the future. She curated the 2026 Hawforth DesignLab x Paved States installation, which was also shown at NeoCon Shows. She continues to design pieces for Cassina, worked with Effe to create a new sauna and hammam collection for Salone del Mobile 2026, and contributed to the creation of The Other Side of the Hill, an installation at the Venice Biennale 2025.

Where you can follow Patricia and her work:

Patricia’s website
Patricia’s instagram

Head to cleverpodcast.com for a transcript (with links!) of this episode, images, resources, and over 200+ more episodes!

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From the archives, January 25, 2022: Industrial designer and founding partner of Barber Osgerby, Jay Osgerby, grew up in a small town in England, with his close-knit multi-generational family and the backdrop of his grandparents’ experiences through WWII. His childhood was filled with making things - inspired by his Swiss ancestors’ stories of watch and camera making. His parents were incredibly resourceful, whether it was opening a shop together or repurposing curtains when the local cinema closed. This pioneering spirit is something that Jay has carried with him throughout his career - from his studies at RCA where he met long-time business partner and friend, Ed Barber, to designing the 2012 Olympic Torch, to revolutionizing how people work remotely with Soft Work seating. Now, 25+ years into design, Jay reveals the triumphs and tragedies that lined his path and forged his character with candor, humor, and an unflagging optimism that burns bright and steady like the inextinguishable flame of the Olympic Torch.

Listen to Ep. 163 at Cleverpodcast.com

If you follow design news, you may have seen that last Wednesday, Edward Barber and Jay Osgerby announced that they are closing their studio, Barber Osgerby, after 30 years to pursue working independently. This is a seismic shift for the design world, and for each of them, obviously. What an epic run! Congratulations to the both of you, and thank you for your many, many important contributions to the built world!

Clever is fortunate enough to have interviewed both Edward Barber and Jay Osgerby - and today we’re absolutely thrilled to be revisiting Jay’s episode. An all-time favorite that feels as relevant and prescient as ever...

In light of the big news, and the re-air of his interview, we followed up with Jay to see what’s been percolating for him. In trademark sincerity and generosity, he delivered:

Since 2021, I think the biggest shift has probably been internal as much as external.

Back then, I was still very much operating inside the momentum of a thirty year partnership and studio structure. Since then, I’ve gradually started asking much bigger questions about authorship, time, meaning, and what kind of work is actually worth putting into the world.

Professionally, there have been some incredibly important milestones. Earlier this year I received an honorary doctorate from Ravensbourne University London, which felt particularly meaningful as it’s my alma mater. Teaching has also become a much bigger part of my life and thinking. I’ve lectured and taught at ECAL, ELISAVA and Rhode Island School of Design, which mostly makes me realise how frighteningly intelligent students are now.

The retrospective at the Triennale di Milano this year was also hugely significant. Seeing thirty years of work brought together in one place gave me a real moment of reflection. At the same time, Ed and I made the decision to begin working independently after more than three decades together, which is obviously a major life shift.

Alongside that, I’ve started writing more seriously. Essays, notes, fragments of ideas, longer pieces. Around the exhibition in Filicudi I also started painting again, initially almost privately and without much expectation, but it’s something I’ve continued alongside the writing ever since. I think both have become ways for me to process questions around memory, permanence, colour, scarcity and why certain objects or images stay with us emotionally while others disappear almost instantly.

Creatively, it’s been a genuinely full period. Ed and I had an exhibition in Filicudi at the Studio Casoli, and we’ve continued showing new work with companies including Hermès, Flos, Kartell, Kettal and Fredericia.

I’ve also spent a lot of time supporting MAP Project Office and Universal Design Studio, particularly around AI and quantum related projects, which has opened up some fascinating and occasionally slightly surreal conversations about technology, creativity and the future.

Personally, one of the most important things has been saving and rebuilding an old stables and cart shed in Hampshire. What began as a fairly stressful architectural rescue project slowly became something much more emotional and grounding. It’s now an incredibly peaceful place for our family and probably the happiest I’ve ever felt in a building. Though there were definitely moments during the process where it felt less peaceful dwelling, and more prolonged negotiation with mud, planners and builders.

I think overall I’ve moved from thinking purely as a designer toward thinking more broadly about culture, art, landscape, light, writing, teaching and how creative work actually sits within a life.

There’s definitely a feeling now that this next chapter is less about building a studio machine and more about building a body of work, and a way of living, that can actually coexist.

What do you remember about your conversation for Clever?

I really loved the conversation. It was wide ranging, thoughtful and genuinely thought provoking. At moments it almost felt a bit like counselling, except obviously in a very public way…!

I think it’s fascinating looking back and analysing which parts of your early life become foundational, or quietly shape the way your creative life and career develop over time. Doing the podcast gave me a chance to reflect on connections I probably hadn’t consciously made before.

I’d love to continue the conversation.

Clever’s response: Hell yes. I’d love to continue the conversation too. It’s a date. Clever listeners - stay tuned for a forthcoming follow-up interview with Jay sometime in the near future.

For now, a heartfelt cheers to you, Jay! 🥂 We wish you all the good vibes and wind in your sails as you embark on this bold and brave new adventure!

Where you can follow Jay and his work:

Jay’s Linkedin
Jay’s instagram
Jay’s website

Head to cleverpodcast.com for a transcript (with links!) of this episode, images, resources, and over 200+ more episodes!

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From the archives, March 9, 2021: Michael Ford is the designer and activist known as The Hip Hop Architect. Born in Highland Park, Michigan the son of a minister, Michael was raised to be inquisitive and question the world around him to find deeper truth. Early on, he found his passion for design and music, expanding it into a practice of architecture and design through the lens of Hip Hop culture. This led to his founding of The Hip Hop Architecture Camp®, a camp that positions Hip Hop Culture as a catalyst to introduce architecture and design to underrepresented youth. He’s also working with some of Hip Hop’s greatest names as he leads the design of The Universal Hip Hop Museum in The Bronx.

Head to cleverpodcast.com for a transcript (with links!) of this episode, images, resources, and over 200+ more episodes!

Listen to ep. 141 at Cleverpodcast.com

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Web designers, Wix Studio lets you deliver your vision with less friction. Built for agencies and enterprises, you get total creative control over every last pixel, with no-code animations, tons of AI tools, reusable design assets, and advanced layout tools.

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What’s Michael been up to lately?

Michael is a 2026 Whitney M Young Jr Award Recipient. He has also been elevated to AIA College of Fellows, appeared as a special guest judge on Food Network’s “Gingerbread Land: The Biggest Little Holiday Competition” and celebrated the 10 Year Anniversary of The Hip Hop Architecture Camp!

What does Michael remember from his conversation on Clever?

The clever interview was fun, it gave me an opportunity to pause and reflect while also thinking about where I am going.

Learn more about Michael’s current work below!

Michael’s website

Michael’s instagram

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From the archives, May 1, 2018: President and Creative Director of Bernhardt Design, Jerry Helling, grew up on a ranch in a remote town with 11 people in his graduating class before venturing to USC and a potential career in Hollywood. A personal epiphany combined with serendipity rerouted him into the furniture business, resulting in a long and distinguished career as a keen mentor of talent, a champion of originality, a risk-taking, needle-moving industry voice, and a major benefactor of international design. Plus, he’s really nice!

Head to cleverpodcast.com for a transcript (with links!) of this episode, images, resources, and over 200+ more episodes!

Listen to Ep. 56 on Cleverpodcast.com

Special thanks to our sponsor: Wix Studio

Web designers, Wix Studio lets you deliver your vision with less friction. Built for agencies and enterprises, you get total creative control over every last pixel, with no-code animations, tons of AI tools, reusable design assets, and advanced layout tools.

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What’s Jerry been up to since 2018?

This year marks Bernhardt Design’s 23rd and final year sponsoring its interdisciplinary design studio with ArtCenter College of Design in Pasadena, California, a partnership that has been especially meaningful to the company over the years. It also marks 10 years of collaboration with Terry Crews, who will be launching another product with Bernhardt Design at NeoCon 2026 in Chicago, and to be previewed at ICFF in NYC this May, 17-19.

Jerry was named a “Top 20 influencer: the brightest bosses in the business” by Wallpaper in 2022. Long-time Clever listeners will be very familiar with many of the astounding talents that Jerry has championed and worked with to develop iconic pieces and collections for Bernhardt Design. Remember these episodes? Click the images to learn more about their work with Jerry and Bernhardt Design.

Clever Episode 41: Ini Archibong

Clever Episode 7: Terry Crews

Clever Episode 1: Joe Doucet

Clever Episode 103: Multidisciplinary Designer Noé Duchaufour-Lawrance

Clever Episode 46: Joe Gebbia

Clever Episode 35: Daniel Germani

Clever Episode 72: Cory Grosser

Clever Episode 173: Multidisciplinary Designer Luca Nichetto Cultivates Community and Fun

Clever Episode 78: Victor Lytvinenko of Raleigh Denim Workshop

Clever Episode 214: Architect & Designer Marc Thorpe on Relationships, Responsibility, and Uncertainty

Clever Episode 109: Furniture & Interior Designer Claudia Washington

Learn more about Jerry’s current work below!

Bernhardt Design

Berhardt Design’s Instagram

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From the archives, May 14, 2024: Natsai Audrey Chieza spent her youth in Zimbabwe in a close-knit extended family where she and her cousins were “in each others’ pockets.” In her teenage years the national economy crashed, necessitating a family relocation to the UK, and she began learning the skill of “not belonging.” Architecture studies proved alienating so she found a way to combine them with her love of fashion (to the consternation of her professors.) Rejecting the prescribed path of a professional architect, she instead pursued a postgraduate program in Material Futures that set her on a path of designing with bacteria. Now, she’s founded Faber Futures, a biodesign studio, and Normal Phenomena of Life, an artful lifestyle and fashion brand that also functions as a working prototype of a new model bioeconomy. She’s spent her whole life quietly not doing what was expected of her, and in this space of outsiderness she’s been very busy creating new paradigms for how we might collaborate with nature and new models for the equitable stewardship of these new biotechnologies. So, in terms of cultural infrastructure, she is an architect after all!

Head to cleverpodcast.com for a transcript (with links!) of this episode, images, resources, and over 200+ more episodes!

Listen to Ep. 1 on cleverpodcast.com

Special thanks to our sponsor: Wix Studio

Web designers, Wix Studio lets you deliver your vision with less friction. Built for agencies and enterprises, you get total creative control over every last pixel, with no-code animations, tons of AI tools, reusable design assets, and advanced layout tools.

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What’s Natsai been up to?

Natsai was named a 2026 Design Luminary by the World Design Organization. Natsai continues to push the boundaries of biodesign with her groundbreaking work at Faber Futures and Normal Pheonomena of Life. From their recent R&D partnership with Quorum to Prototyping Fit-to-Farm Models for Biomanufacturing: Friesland to their ongoing work with Ginkgo Bioworks on Normal Phenomena of Life, the world’s first biodesign-native lifestyle brand of its kind.

Learn more about Natsai’s current work below!

Natsai’s website

Natsai’s LinkedIn

Natsai’s instagram

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Can you believe it’s been 10 YEARS of Clever?! Neither can we. So we wanted to go (all the way) back and check back in on some of our favorite conversations. We’re starting with Joe Doucet, our very first episode. And, we look ahead too — what have our brilliant guests been up to in the intervening years? What was their experience like with Clever? Read below to hear from Joe, and make sure to tune in each week over the next few months as we continue to hear from our favorite makers, builders, thinkers, and innovators.

From the archives, May 3, 2016: New York-based multi-disciplinary designer, Joe Doucet, tells Amy and Jaime why he doesn’t start any project with sketching, how a pair of avant-garde headphones caught the attention of Lady Gaga, and how he cross-trains his brain.

Head to cleverpodcast.com for a transcript (with links!) of this episode, images, resources, and over 200+ more episodes!

Listen to Ep. 1 on cleverpodcast.com

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Clever: Please share a few of your major milestones since your episode of Clever first aired in May 2016?

Joe: I did end up winning the Cooper Hewitt National Design Award. I’ve started several new ventures focused around the intersection of Design, Innovation and sustainability. Notably Airiva the wind turbine wall I developed. Also we’ve formed a new company to develop and distribute the climate responsive paint I also created. Busy finishing up an installation for May with a sound system I developed in collaboration with AI called Transmissions. Opening May 15th at Heft Gallery NYC.

Clever: Please offer one brief reflection on your experience of Clever.

Joe: I had no idea what I was getting in to, but knowing Amy and Jaime I had every faith it was going to be something interesting. It is such an honor to have been the first guest among the many, many luminaries who followed.

Learn more about Joe’s current work below!

Joe’s website

Joe’s instagram

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Curator Alyssa Velazquez grew up with theater as her first form of community—a foundation that continues to shape her curatorial work. Her current exhibition at Center for Craft, Craft-itarianism: Community Action Through Craft, explores how craft can add joy, distribute resources, and foster community among at-risk and marginalized people. Velazquez brings a unique interdisciplinary approach to her curatorial practice at Carnegie Museum of Art, pulling from past work in art preservation, acting, and scenic design. Alyssa teaches us that the act of making can form resource generation within communities that need life-affirming support, and that craft methodologies—from job training to art therapy to social enterprise—can be applied to create meaningful social change.

Listen now on cleverpodcast.com

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Head to cleverpodcast.com for a transcript (with links!) of this episode, images, resources, and over 200+ more episodes! 

What’s the best advice that you’ve ever gotten?

In a professional development workshop on navigating contracts through the Dramatists Guild, Emmanuel Wilson said, “if you say yes to everything, your nos mean nothing.” And that particular piece of advice is not something that I’ve clung on to because I think I do it particularly well, but quite the opposite. It’s stuck with me in every facet of my creative career as something that I aspire to, knowing that scarcity mindset, especially within the arts, is a powerful motivator and in the worst case scenarios, manipulator.

What’s your current favorite tool or material to work with?

I will admit I’ve succumbed to the digital gadgets of the anthropocene, and my most frequently utilized tool at the moment is my notes app. Its tagline on the Apple store is, “take notes of almost anything,” and it’s true; I do. I even have an entire thread titled “graveyard,” and it’s where I put all my sleeper ideas or deleted thoughts from other pieces of writing with the hopes of them going into a future exhibition, essay, or play.

What books are on your nightstand?

It’s a little bit idiosyncratic but,

Slippery Beast: A True Crime Natural History, with Eels by Ellen Ruppel Shell

An interesting deep dive into the importance and enigma of eels in the natural world.

2.5 Minute Ride and 101 humiliating stories by Lisa Kron

Two pieces of solo work by an artist balancing humor and horror.

Just Watch Me by Lior Torenberg

The story of a woman who decides to livestream her life for seven days, gaining followers through spicy-food challenges to raise money for her sister’s medical treatments.

This Elegance by Derrick Austin

Austin’s newest meditation on Black love, beauty, and artistry by a writer that I’m looking forward to collaborating with on the forthcoming exhibition, Skin Tight.

Diary of Proletarian Seamstress by Victoria Guerrero-Peirano and translated by Anastatia Spicer & Honora Spicer

An investigation of textile lineages by a Peruvian poet published through Cardboard House Press, a nonprofit that publishes Latin American and Spanish poetry in translation, made by hand in community-based workshops.

Favorite restaurant in your city?

In true Libra fashion, I have two foodie sides: the seasonal menu with speciality cocktails experience and the basket of buffalo wings and draught beer combo. Lucky for me, Pittsburgh offers both of those dining experiences. A few that come to mind are: The Squirrel Hill Cafe in Squirrel Hill, Fet Fisk in Bloomfield, Dish on the Southside, and Monterey Pub in the Mexican War Streets.

Who do you look up to and why?

Over the past few months, working on Craft-itarianism: Community Action through Craft, I’ve been in awe of the phenomenal creative powers of these collectives of migrants, artists, students, workshop participants, co-workers, and instructors. Specifically, Pearl Dick at Firebird Community Arts, Dr. Tiffany Momon with Black Craftspeople Digital Archive, the dynamic duo that is Ilka and Dominique Perkins from People’s Pottery Project, Tanya Aguiñiga and Natalie Godinez with the AMBOS Project, artist Maggie Thompson, and Samantha Mitchell at Center for Creative Works.

I think one of the many reasons I curated Craft-itarianism is because so many of my family and friends have always modeled for me a world in which collective action, and the many forms it takes in building and shaping our lives, is at its core an expression of solidarity, which is just another word for love.

What are the last five songs you’ve listened to?

“La Nueva Ciudad” by Balún

“No One Noticed” by The Marías

“Chains of Love” by Charli xcx

Also, “It’s a good day (to fight the system)” by Shungudzo and “Cut to the Feeling” by Carly Rae Jepsen, both of which are on a playlist I curated that reflect the themes of craft-itarianism.

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Artist and designer Dennis Maher has spent decades exploring the life cycles of buildings. After studying architecture at Cornell, he moved to Buffalo, New York—where a job in demolition introduced him to the visceral reality of the built environment constantly breaking down and rebuilding itself.

That experience sparked a practice rooted in salvaged materials, forgotten objects, and the imaginative transformation of ordinary spaces. Maher’s work now spans sculptural installations, living environments, and his most ambitious project: The Assembly House, an evolving artwork housed inside a historic church that also serves as a training ground for the building arts.

Part immersive artwork, part cultural attraction, part educational engine, The Assembly House teaches people to build while reconnecting them to the tactile, communal experience of craft. Through what he calls “architectural dream worlds,” Maher explores how memory, materials, and imagination reshape the way we understand the spaces we inhabit—and the role we play in building them.

Listen now on cleverpodcast.com

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Head to cleverpodcast.com for a transcript (with links!) of this episode, images, resources, and over 200+ more episodes! 

What’s the best advice that you’ve ever gotten?

A few people told me I should move to Buffalo. That was 25 years ago.

What’s your current favorite tool or material to work with?

I am working with a lot of Eastlake Furniture right now. I like the linework and details.

What book is on your nightstand?

The Good Life, by Iñaki Ábalo

Favorite restaurant in your city?

Roost, everything is delicious but the pizza is divine

What are the last five songs you’ve listened to?

The album I’ve been listening to is David Byrne’s Everything that Happens will Happen Today

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Public artist Michael Townsend grew up in a military family that relocated often—at least ten times during his childhood. He learned early how to explore new locales and seek out new friends before moving on to the next temporary hometown. His final relocation was to study art at RISD, when he chose Providence as home—and began quietly reshaping it. He founded the Tape Art movement in 1989 and built a thriving practice rooted in ephemeral public murals, deeply personal underground installations, and highly clandestine collaborations, including the now-legendary Secret Mall Apartment.

For more than 30 years, he has created hundreds of temporary murals and collaborative public works around the world, including the 9/11 Hope Project and the invention of the BOOM! Projector. Now, with the success of the Secret Mall Apartment documentary on Netflix, it’s clear that he and his collaborators were deeply intentional about incubating that narrative until it was ready to be heard.

Moving fluidly in and out of the shadows—showing up, making an impression, then dissolving underground only to emerge again—turns out Michael himself may be a work of ephemeral art.

Listen now on cleverpodcast.com

Special thanks to our sponsor: Wix Studio

Web designers, Wix Studio lets you deliver your vision with less friction. Built for agencies and enterprises, you get total creative control over every last pixel, with no-code animations, tons of AI tools, reusable design assets, and advanced layout tools.

Check out Wix Studio

Head to cleverpodcast.com for a transcript (with links!) of this episode, images, resources, and over 200+ more episodes! 

What’s your current favorite tool or material to work with?

We recently got a laser cutter. Super fun. In between laser cut passes we have been practicing sling shots on a make-shift range in our studio. Also super fun.

What book is on your nightstand?

If Nietzsche Were A Narwhal by Justin Gregg

Favorite restaurant in your city?

Spice Valley is a hole-in-the-wall halal place that opened up in a gas station/donut shop/smoke shop down the street from our studio. Just order the combo plate.

What are the last five songs you listened to?

We’ve been listening a lot recently to the Star Maidens soundtrack. This pretty lame 1970s British sci-fi TV show by some stroke of luck ended up having an awesome funky soundtrack. There is a lot of great music tucked away in really bad movies/TV shows from the 70s. We also have been listening to a collection of albums of world music released by Sublime Frequencies and really enjoying an album of North Korean music called: Radio Pyongyang: Commie Funk and Agit Pop from the Hermit Kingdom.

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Chief Creative Officer of Bruce Mau Design, Laura Stein grew up on Nun’s Island outside of Montreal, a near utopia where kids never had to cross the street. Her psychiatrist father and museum-involved mother cultivated curiosity about emotions, critical thinking, and the arts. A move to Texas in her teens resulted in quite a culture shock. Laura found an innate knack for peer reviews and analysis, which became a strength throughout the rest of her academic and professional career. Originally graduating with a degree in English, she returned to school to study art, where she found not only her community, but her band mates. From there, it was a wild ride - record signing (Sub Pop,) touring, and navigating all the ups and downs of being in a girl band in the ‘90s – the ultimate creative boot camp. Now in leadership at Bruce Mau Design, she’s deploying the wisdom garnered from all these experiences to build a culture focused on keeping possibility alive.

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What’s the best advice that you’ve ever gotten?

I have 2 pieces of advice that I try to live up to in my work.

Bruce Mau said to me once, as he was reviewing a book I was working on: “You’re thinking like a designer, think like an artist.” That blew my mind. I had different sections in my brain for art and design and suddenly they could be merged. It helped me develop my own voice and perspective. I am forever grateful for that.

When I was first learning how to play bass, Tim Stewart, an excellent bass player, was showing me how to EQ my amp. He said “Beware the mid-range.” He looked me in the eye and gave it a real gravitas, like “This is also a life lesson”. I try to bring it into my design work — don’t be wishy-washy. Give the work a point of view.

What’s your current favorite tool or material to work with?

Believe it or not, my most used tool is Keynote. I use it for structuring ideas, like the old-fashioned cue-cards method – one idea per card. I also find it easy to sketch design ideas there because the tools are so basic and its more about the idea than the aesthetic. It can be an easy thing for feedback as well. I copy and paste bits and pieces to give teams some visual direction as well as verbal.

What book is on your nightstand?

Miriam Toews – Fight Night – She wrote Women Talking. She has a dark humour that I appreciate.

Favorite restaurant in your city?

Union on Ossington which is happily its down the street from me. It’s cozy, French via Ontario countryside vibe and it has a beautiful, delicate mural of a pastoral scene by artist Barbara Klunder. The food is seasonal and local, delicious and unfussy.

Who do you look up to and why?

This may be a classic answer (I hope it is!). I look up to my mom. She’s done so many interesting things in her life, seemingly fearlessly. She helped create the kids gallery at the Royal Ontario Museum. She opened a shop and gallery for metal artists and jewelery-makers. She went ziplining in Costa Rica by herself in her 60s. And she is continually interested in what’s happening in the world.

What are the last five songs you listened to?

Hidden Place by Bjork – A gorgeous, heartbreaking song, so intimate and epic at the same time. Quiet time listen.

The Black and the Blue by Joe Pernice, who is — full disclosure — my husband. This is the first single on his upcoming album. I got to sing backup on one of the songs – which is truly an awesome way to spend an evening together.

I Don’t Think Hank Done It That Way by Waylon Jennings. Joe has this on repeat. So it is never not in my last 5 songs I listened to.

Will You Still Love Me Tomorrow by Carol King – we were talking about desert island albums and Tapestry came up from someone unexpected. So I wanted to remind myself about how great this is.

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If you missed any of these, now’s the time to check them out. These folks are all worth a first (or second!) listen.

First up was designer, researcher, and author Ingrid Fetell Lee, who has dedicated her life to the study of joy…

Then we get some wisdom from Bradley L. Bowers, an expert at blending technology and craft…

And thought about how we could bring more play into our daily life with Cas Homan, author of Playful, on a campaign to help adults reconnect with play…

And last but not least, Mick De Giulio, who has spent decades perfecting the art of designing kitchens that are masterpieces of flow, beauty, and emotional resonance…

***And get ready for new episodes, coming January 20, 2026!***

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For over 40+ years, Mick De Giulio has been dedicating his talents to designing kitchens that sing. It all starts with listening, and the results are masterpieces of flow, proportion, beauty, utility and emotional resonance. A devotee of craft, he’s known for having an unusual command of detail and materials. He brings it all together in service of designing dynamic shared spaces that foster connection, care and magic moments. The author of two books, Kitchen Centric and Kitchen, with a third out in 2026, he is an unmatched leader in the field who also supports the industry and elevates the art of kitchen design by way of the Sub-Zero, Wolf and Cove Kitchen Design Contest.

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Special thanks to this episode’s sponsor: Sub-Zero Wolf and Cove

Thanks to Sub-Zero Wolf and Cove for sponsoring this episode! Learn more about the Kitchen Design Contest and submit your application below:

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Head to cleverpodcast.com for a transcript (with links!) of this episode, images, resources, and over 200+ more episodes! 

What’s the best design advice that you’ve ever gotten?
‘The only limitation is your imagination’

What’s your current favorite tool or material to work with?
Cocciopesto

What books are on your nightstand?

‘The Brain that Changes Itself’ by Norman Doidge
‘Whilrwind’ by (broadcaster) Bill Kurtis

Favorite restaurant in your city?
In my city-Wilmette: lunch: Torino dinner: Sophia

Who do you look up to and why?
My Wife of 52 Years: She is brave, strong and supportive

What are the last five songs you listened to?
Good Day Sunshine—Beatles
4 Songs I don’t know the names of because they were in French, while in a (local) French café called Leonidas’

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Designer Liz Ogbu grew up in Oakland as the daughter of Nigerian immigrants, but it wasn’t until her first trip to Nigeria at 16 that she grasped the profound role place, family, and cultural context play in shaping who we are—and what we create. Drawn to the creative possibilities of architecture, she studied both architecture and engineering before traveling across Africa on a Watson Fellowship, an experience that sharpened her understanding of who her work is ultimately for: the people most impacted by design.

Today, Liz is catalyzing what design can do—in transforming informal marketplaces, helping communities heal after being fractured by freeways, and weaving practices of grief, accountability, and repair into the built environment. Her work transcends traditional architecture, centering the excavation of harm and the pursuit of more empathetic, community-rooted design at a moment when it’s needed more than ever.

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Web designers, Wix Studio lets you deliver your vision with less friction. Built for agencies and enterprises, you get total creative control over every last pixel, with no-code animations, tons of AI tools, reusable design assets, and advanced layout tools.

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Head to cleverpodcast.com for a transcript (with links!) of this episode, images, resources, and over 200+ more episodes! 

In case you missed it…

Last week, we shared the first episode of Stephanie Tinsley’s true crime podcast, Everything They Missed.

Check out Amy’s conversation with Stephanie, then dive into the show. You won’t regret it.

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When her life collided with a high-profile murder trial, longtime true-crime devotee Stephanie Tinsley found an unexpected path into creative agency and advocacy. After a career in sales and private equity, everything shifted when her husband, attorney Mark Tinsley, was thrust into the spotlight during the Murdaugh murder trials. In this episode, she and Amy discuss the making of Everything They Missed, the inner resources she had to marshal to tell the story well, and why centering human dignity is her driving force in true-crime storytelling.

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Web designers, Wix Studio lets you deliver your vision with less friction. Built for agencies and enterprises, you get total creative control over every last pixel, with no-code animations, tons of AI tools, reusable design assets, and advanced layout tools.

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Head to cleverpodcast.com for a transcript (with links!) of this episode, images, resources, and over 200+ more episodes! 

What’s the best advice that you’ve ever gotten?

There was a moment at the beginning of making this podcast when I started second-guessing myself. The tone. The narration. The way I was approaching the story. As a creator and host, that doubt can creep in fast.

So I asked Donald Albright, CEO of Tenderfoot TV and one of the true giants in this space, who also happens to be my creative director, if I should change anything. And he gave me the best advice I’ve gotten on this journey. He said:

“Create something dope you want to listen to.”

I think about that every single time I sit down to write or record. That’s why my show sounds the way it does. The voices I chose to highlight, the unconventional ways I investigated, the cinematic sound design… it’s all built around what I would want to hear on a long drive when I’m hungry for a story that feels real, raw, and different.

That advice grounded me. And it gave me permission to trust my instincts.

What’s your current favorite tool or material to work with?

My Shure SM7B mic, without question. I think it hides every imperfection and I love it for that.

What books are on your nightstand?

I actually have two — one I just finished and one I just started.

The first is The Hormone Shift by Dr. Tasneem Bhatia, or “Dr. Taz.” She’s my doctor, and I recommend this book to any woman over 35. It’s packed with insight about our bodies and minds as we move through different phases of life. Every five years I feel like I evolve — body, mind, and soul — and this book helped me understand what’s happening and why.

The second is The Creative Act by Rick Rubin. I started it before I began working on the podcast and haven’t had a chance to finish it yet, but I treasure it. I’m a chronic dog-earer and underliner, and by the time I paused reading it, I think I had folded down the first 50 pages. It’s one of those books you want to sit with… and I plan to go back to it when I’m ready to soak in every word again.

Favorite restaurant in your city?

Soho House in Nashville. The vibe there is unreal.

Who do you look up to and why?

This show has added new names to that list, but it starts with my parents, both of whom have passed.

My father was a lawyer but also an entrepreneur. He was always starting a new business, doing something unexpected, I’m that kind of a gypsy professional too.

My mother was a writer and an English teacher, and she gave me the love of storytelling.

Flora Hayes, Andrew’s mother (and the subject of my podcast), is someone I now look up to as well. She has the strength of a thousand men in her fight for her son. I would fight to the death for my child, and she’s a living inspiration of that kind of fierce, relentless love.

My best friend Elizabeth, who listeners hear on the show. She grounds me. She reminds me to slow down, trust myself, and stay vulnerable. She’s that ride-or-die truth-teller everyone hopes to have in their corner, and I’m lucky she’s in mine.

What are the last five songs you listened to?

I’m a hip hop and country girl so…

Trendsetter - Conner Price & Haviah Mighty
Venon - Emimen
New National Anthem - TI
White Horse - Chris Stapleton
The Fall - Cody Johnson

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Molly Heintz grew up fascinated with Greek mythology, and eventually, fashion – drawn to enthralling storytelling and visual aesthetics. She carried this interest in Greek mythology over to studying archeology but when she became burned out in academia, she transitioned to work as a fashion editor, setting her on an entirely new careerpath. From there, she worked in marketing and communications, eventually co-founding Superscript and teaching at SVA, chairing the Masters of Arts in Design Research, Writing & Criticism program. Together with Steven Heller, she’s co-edited The Education of a Design Writer to showcase exemplary design writing and share practical advice for writers. Molly makes a compelling case for why design writing is essential for the design process, and for understanding the world around us.

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Web designers, Wix Studio lets you deliver your vision with less friction. Built for agencies and enterprises, you get total creative control over every last pixel, with no-code animations, tons of AI tools, reusable design assets, and advanced layout tools.

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Head to cleverpodcast.com for a transcript (with links!) of this episode, images, resources, and over 200+ more episodes! 

What’s the best advice that you’ve ever gotten?

If you’re feeling blue, go outside.

What’s your current favorite tool or material to work with?

Having plants in my work and living spaces in the city is critical.

What book(s) is on your nightstand?

The Parted Earth by Anjali Anjeti
Nightshining and The Eighth Moon by Jennifer Kabat
Forest Bathing by Dr. Qing Li

Favorite restaurant in your city?

Birds of a Feather in Williamsburg, for the soup dumplings and atmosphere.

Who do you look up to and why?

I look up to my book co-editor Steven Heller. Steve has paved the way for writing about design and always makes that writing engaging and accessible. He has authored or co-authored well over 100 books and has written his Monday through Friday “Daily Heller” blog posts (now on printmag.com) for years. He is so knowledgeable and accomplished yet remains curious, humble, and approachable to students. Steve has been open about his Parkinson’s diagnosis, and, despite the challenges this has introduced into his life, he is one of the hardest-working, positive, and generous people I know. He is an inspiration, and I am lucky to count him as a mentor, colleague, and friend.

What are the last five songs you listened to?

No Broke Boys, Disco Lines & Tinashe
Pick Up Sticks, The Dave Brubeck Quartet
La Vie en Rose, Louis Armstrong
Night Train, Oscar Peterson Trio
Lips, Boys Holding Hands

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Emmy-nominated costume designer Virginia B. Johnson grew up with a “dragon mother,” which shaped her structured habits and her ability to work smoothly amid chaos. Her childhood was filled with intergenerational connection and crafting - learning sewing, embroidery, knitting and crocheting from a “flock of Filipina aunties,” which fostered not only a sense of community, but a foundational skill for her eventual career. Although she was a pre-med major in college, a serendipitous side gig in a college theater costume shop sparked a passionate pivot to a career that now includes critically-acclaimed and award-winning projects like Hillbilly Elegy and American Primeval, and the opportunity to lead teams in the art of deploying deep craft and rigorous, reverent cultural authenticity to drive powerful storytelling.

Listen now on Cleverpodcast.com

Special thanks to our sponsor: Wix Studio

Web designers, Wix Studio lets you deliver your vision with less friction. Built for agencies and enterprises, you get total creative control over every last pixel, with no-code animations, tons of AI tools, reusable design assets, and advanced layout tools.

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Head to cleverpodcast.com for a transcript (with links!) of this episode, images, resources, and over 200+ more episodes! 

What’s the best advice that you’ve ever gotten?

“Stand in the possibility.” This was in response to me wondering if I should apply for a job that I thought I might not have the experience for. The costume shop stitcher told me to apply and “stand in the possibility.” That has been part of every endeavor - personal and professional.

What’s your current favorite tool or material to work with?

This is corny but my favorite tool is my hands. I do so much with my two hands - type, draw, paint, thread needles, cut fabric, pick tomatoes, pet my cats… and I carry different palm stones gifted to me by various friends and colleagues over the years. Holding these stones in my hand keeps me grounded.

What books are on your nightstand?

I am an avid reader. Talking about books brings me so much joy. Currently reading;

Welcome to Night Vale by Joseph Fink, Jeffrey Cranor
Future Home of the Living God by Louise Erdrich
Ambition Monster: A Memoir by Jennifer Romolini
The Serviceberry: Abundance and Reciprocity in the Natural World by Robin Wall Kimmerer

Favorite restaurant in your city?

Sarma in Somerville, Massachusetts

Who do you look up to and why?

So many people! The first two people I ever looked up to were my grandmothers: Nita and Christina. They were resourceful, stylish (in totally different ways), and walked through life with purpose. Nita never held back and always spoke truth to power. Christina never showed up empty handed and had the best shoes, even when traveling from Manila (Philippines) to Long Beach (California, USA) overnight to help raise 3 grandchildren - she arrived in 3” embroidered stilettos!

What are the last five songs you listened to?

Wild Child by Enya
I Want to Dance With Somebody by Whitney Houston
We Found Love by Rihanna, Calvin Harris
Unwritten by Natasha Bedingfield
Walking on Sunshine by Katrina and the Waves

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Julia Watson, a landscape architect, author, and educator, developed a passion for global cultures and knowledge as a child in Australia, inspired by her parents’ National Geographic collection. She has since dedicated her career to exploring traditional knowledge systems and their application to contemporary design challenges like extreme weather, waste management, and population growth.

At the heart of Watson’s work is a profound respect for indigenous knowledge systems and a commitment to applying Traditional Ecological Knowledge (TEK) to climate-adaptive design. Through her work with Lo-TEK, including the recently launched Lo-TEK Office for Intercultural Urbanism, and her books, Lo-TEK: Design by Radical Indigenism and the upcoming Lo-TEK Water (November 30 release), she strives to facilitate the equitable exchange and implementation of indigenous knowledge and technology to the crucial and complex challenges of our evolving world.

Listen now on cleverpodcast.com

Special thanks to our sponsor: Wix Studio

Web designers, Wix Studio lets you deliver your vision with less friction. Built for agencies and enterprises, you get total creative control over every last pixel, with no-code animations, tons of AI tools, reusable design assets, and advanced layout tools.

Check out Wix Studio

Head to cleverpodcast.com for a transcript (with links!) of this episode, images, resources, and over 200+ more episodes! 

What’s the best advice that you’ve ever gotten?

All the answers you’re looking for or wondering about are already inside, you just need to find them.

What’s your current favorite tool or material to work with?

Soil

What book is on your nightstand?

Mannahatta
In the Three Sisters Garden

Favorite restaurant in your city?

The Department of Culture

Who do you look up to and why?

Arundjati Roy

ICYMI: Aaron Draplin on Clever

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Another blast from the past last week! We featured the brilliant graphic designer Aaron Draplin.

Graphic designer Aaron Draplin was born in Michigan and raised on LEGO bricks, pizza nights, punk rock & snowboarding. He spent early adulthood rolling with the “crusty undercurrent of f*ckheads” that lives to snowboard before he ventured to Minneapolis to study design amongst the ghosts of his musical heroes. He’s seen some high-falutin’ stuff at the museum, but the steelyard is where it’s at. He’s all about working hard, making a sh*t whack of money, taking care of his people, and having some fun along the way.

If you missed this episode the first time, listen now on your favorite podcast app.

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Cas Holman grew up playing make-believe in the woods and helping her mechanic step-dad fix cars and dune buggies. Always knowing that she didn’t check the stereotypical gender boxes, she never gave any of the other arbitrary “boxes” much credit either, instead preferring to focus on the outside-the-box possibilities that could be accessed through play, curiosity, and exploration. While getting her MFA, she began working on Geemo, a building toy, which kicked-off her life’s mission of designing for play. Since then, she’s established herself as a champion of open-ended play, designing notable play systems like Rigamajig. She’s worked with global business leaders to incorporate play into company culture, leading to more innovative outcomes, greater trust and safety, and improved resilience. With her upcoming book, Playful, she is on a campaign to help adults reconnect with play throughout their lives because she knows, and has the research and science to prove it, that with play we ALL become more creative, joyful, and productive. Ain’t that good news!

Listen now on cleverpodcast.com

Special thanks to our sponsor: Wix Studio

Web designers, Wix Studio lets you deliver your vision with less friction. Built for agencies and enterprises, you get total creative control over every last pixel, with no-code animations, tons of AI tools, reusable design assets, and advanced layout tools.

Check out Wix Studio

Head to cleverpodcast.com for a transcript (with links!) of this episode, images, resources, and over 200+ more episodes! 

What’s the best advice that you’ve ever gotten?

From Shoham Arad - “Show up and be awesome”

What’s your current favorite tool or material to work with?

Inky pens and scratchpaper. And I love whittling.

What book is on your nightstand?

Blackouts by Justin Torres

Favorite restaurant in your city?

My favorite restaurant in YOUR city (Providence, RI) is Oberlin! Love that place.

Fave in mine right now is Strange Delight. Both are creative with seafood.

Who do you look up to and why?

SO MANY PEOPLE! Recently i am very much appreciating Amanda Gates-Elston, my Studio Manager who has the most incredible drive for positivity I’ve ever encountered. And she’s a New Yorker! She’s a champion hunter of the silver-lining. Plus a goofball.

What are the last five songs you listened to?

A playlist my boo and I have been making since we met-

• What You Do by Imperial Teen

• A Certain Person by Light Asylum

• Work for Peace by Gil Scott Heron

• Song of Abayi by Emahoy Tsege Mariam Gebru

• Stay (feat. Gabzy) by melvitto, Gabzy

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