Today is the 25th anniversary of my favorite magazine of all time: ELLEgirl. To know me is to know this magazine. It shaped me stylistically. ELLEgirl taught me how to think about style—to take something I saw and make it my own, not just regurgitate it. It also planted seeds of reference that shaped my teenage and early adulthood years. To celebrate, I combed through the first issue I ever got and pulled the highlights.

The time was late October 2003. I’d recently turned 13. An eighth grader at Carrington Middle School in Durham, North Carolina. I wore Tommy Hilfiger shirts, Hollister low-rise jeans, a silver chain that I bought at a mall kiosk for $25, and pink Timberland boots. My hair was frosted by a woman named Tammy who wore western shirts tucked into her high-rise jeans and blonde teased hair that looked like Dolly’s. My bangs wispy, curled every morning. Teeth still bucked. 5’7” and just arms, legs, and a recently arrived C cup that I’d prayed for. ELLEgirl was my bible into another world.

The colors! The hair! That pink bubble skirt! To borrow language from fashion writer , I was practically “frothing at the mouth” when this issue arrived.

Who was this Brandon with her beachy, surfer girl hair? I wanted to know. She looked so cool, so casual. Brandon, if you’re reading this, I would be my dream to talk with you about making this magazine.

They had this section on street style. I thought some of the looks were ugly—why were they wearing those cheap-looking wide belts?!—but I was really drawn to Natalia from Buenos Aires, mostly because she was beautiful with that dark hair, striking eyes, full lips.

I was browsing through this issue a couple of years ago and when I got to this page I realized, “That’s it! This is why I went to Buenos Aires and dated an Argentine man for over a decade!” I’m joking, mostly, but I have ELLEgirl to thank for introducing me to boys beyond North Carolina and Virginia.

Such a soft, pretty editorial. The light and seagrass reminded me of the beach my family goes too every June. Note the prices. Waayy more accessible than Teen Vogue. I was afraid to open that magazine because it felt like it was for someone other than me.

I didn’t like this specific look, BUT I liked that they introduced the idea of taking something, and making it your own. Like, maybe I could sew some pleather leg warmers??

I still think about the look in the top right corner. The pose, that jacket. The skinny little scarf. SHE LOOKED SO COOL. And I thought the “real way” looked better than the actual runway look. The water tower on the left page really grabbed my eye. And she’s wearing pants with a skirt?! You can do that??

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“This is our beauty intern, Lauren, who is just so damn gorgeous she beat out any model we could think of”—that line stood with me for years. The “beauty intern" (what’s a beauty intern?) “damn gorgeous” (damn!! they said “damn”!), the her being discovered (I secretly wanted to be discovered too). I attempted this look at 5am before going skiing with my church youth group in the North Carolina mountains, and couldn’t figure out why when I followed the steps, I didn’t end up looking like her.

I wanted that Almay Nearly Naked Touch-Pad makeup badly because of this page. I thought the girl looked kind of boring, but I also thought she kind of looked like me.

I had no idea what Sephora was—my eyes glazed over the copy because I gathered that it was expensive and therefore not for me (although the Blisslab packaging made its way through to my brain. That was one of the fancy products I desired, without really knowing what it was. Maybe it has something to do with the blue). I didn’t know what Duane Reade was either, but I thought it must be some kind of cool NYC drugstore and when I went there for the first time in my twenties, I felt the thrill of closing this loop.

This story “The 50 Hottest Guys in Rock!” introduced me to my middle school type: brunette with side swept hair. I thought Tyson Ritter was so darn cute. He sang that “Swing, Swing” song! And Brandon Boyd reminded me of a boy at my middle school who I had a semi-crush on.

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I consider myself pretty knowledgeable about bras because I believe in the power of wearing aesthetically-pleasing, well-made, comfortable undergarments everyday, and I wear a less common bra size, but really I am a novice compared to my dear friend Michaela. Michaela has been researching and testing out bras ever since high school. She kind of has to, because wearing a 30DDD, bras aren’t merely a matter of just looking pretty. They have to do some serious work.

Some people shrink away from a fit challenge (and I don’t blame them. It’s actually kind of infuriating how people with big breasts have to spend so much time and money to find something that makes them feel confident and comfortable), but Michaela dives right in. With her Julia Roberts smile and charm that makes everyone she meets fall at least a little bit in love with her, Michaela’s turned what can be an agonizing experience into something delightful.

After seeing her latest find—a beige, phallic-shaped sticker, which we immediately dubbed the “alien ween,” boob tape for wearing under backless dresses and tops—I asked Michaela to send me her bra recs. In her typical Virgo fashion, Michaela emailed me a list of her faves a few hours later. It took me a little bit longer to follow up. A few Tuesdays ago, I sat down in the corner of her bedroom and listened while Michaela laid out her treasures in front of me and next to her sleeping baby Moon1.

“Azaleas in the East Village and the Rack Shack,” she immediately began. “Just go. If you need a bra, no matter what size you are, just go and have the ladies feel your boobies and help you. I’ve gotten so many of these from those two shops.” Indeed, if you are located in the NYC area, do as she says and just go! However, if you aren’t—fear not. In the following conversation, Michaela walked me through why a bra or swim top is a tried-n-true, as well as a few honorable mentions that are almost perfect. These are bras for sweating in, dancing in, moving and commuting in. Bras that are pretty, but not overly precious, and LAST (except one…that rhymes with “Kim”…).

A note about the product links below. I linked directly to the shops that helped Michaela find her bras because if we want stores that stock hard-to-find sizes and educate their staff on how to help people find their perfect fit to stay in business, we need to support them. If you decide to purchase something, I encourage you to shop them directly too.

TRIED-N-TRUES

Outdoor Voices The Double Time Bra - $58

Michaela: First off, a sports bra. I am always on the hunt for another one. It actually was suggested to me by you.

Robyn: It kind of blows my mind that you’re able to wear that.

Michaela: I know. Small band, big bust is what my recs are for. The reason I can wear it is because of the small band.

Robyn: What size do you wear that in?

Michaela: The same size as you: a small. I love it so much and it makes me feel secure...I wouldn’t say it affects my breathing, but after all day, I’m like, “Oh, she has been corseted,” but it’s comfortable and I feel secure. Even though it’s a sports bra, it provides some lift. Which most sports bras don’t. It’s magic. My boobs look so small.

La Fille d’O Changes Mono Wire Bikini Top & Fast Girls Monowire V Bra - $195 & $185

Michaela: So this is La Fille d’O. It’s a Belgian company, and it is amazing. This is actually a swimsuit. I wear it as a bra. It can be a halter too. It’s my third one. My first one I bought in 2019. It’s very pricey; it is worth every penny. This is as important as the Banshee, as important as the Outdoor Voices. This comes with me on every trip.

The first one was a swimsuit. The second one was a bra. They have these sexy, completely sheer bras. They all have this crazy wire, but it looks fun. I like how they pop out of really low things because it’s this weird line, but still minimal.

Robyn: How does it hold up? Like what’s the longevity of something like that?

Michaela: I wore the first swimsuit most summer days for three years. The ocean and the pool. It would be what I put on to go out in the sunshine in the back at 4642. It is completely sun bleached because I wore it so much. It’s an engineering feat. It truly is. Go to their website! Their campaigns are incredible—people of all sizes and genders, nipples! pubic hair!

Robyn: What size do you wear in that one?

Michaela: These are strange sizes. I’m a size three.

Robyn: ​​I’m always nervous when I see these random sizes. Like how does that work?

Michaela: Yeah, I have no idea. This one was an Azaleas. There’s a woman there that has the same breast size as me and she’s always like, “Hey, here’s what’s been working for me.”

Banshee Foreplay Top - $96

Michaela: In 2020, I spotted this amazing swimsuit. It was in a purple, weird-mauve colorway. I was obsessed. I actually reached out to a few people to see if they could make one for me because I was like, “No way will it fit me.”

Then one day at Jacob Riis, I saw this girl next to her naked friend, titties out, bright orange top, what looked like a Banshee. I went up to her and asked, “Is this a Banshee?” Like, explain. She had huge boobs. And she was like, “Doesn’t it look amazing on me?” It did!

Michaela: This sheer part of the bra, she just completely stretches. And so all that matters is the band size and the wire. This is a size extra small, and I put it on my body, and then I just pull it over my boobs. This, like the La Fille d’O, can be a halter top or not. I’ve worn this top out dancing, even though it’s completely see-through. Multiple girlfriends now own these.

Robyn: It kind of blows my mind that this is an extra small because the underwire, it’s significant.

Michaela: Yes. It’s a female-owned brand. The owner is the designer and she’s a woman making products for people with breasts.

Michaela: Both of us learned from the department store folks. For example! The underwire is supposed to go around the whole bottom of your boob, and your boob really goes into the armpit region. It’s not just on the front of your body.

Rilke Sofia Bralette - $77

Michaela: My next fave. I got this a year ago at The Rack Shack in Bushwick. It's this Polish brand called Rilke. I mean, how gorgeous is this? It's beautiful. They have all kinds of bras there. I went in, and I was like, ”I need comfort. I like bralettes, but I have big boobs.” Bralettes are really hard to find in my size.

Rilke Eve Bra & Betty Bralette - $70

Michaela: I have three Rilke bras. The one I just showed you is my favorite. It’s the Sofia, but I also have this one (Eve Bra), which I wear a lot. The Sofia I wear in a 65F. The other one I love too (Betty Bralette). It kind of makes my boobs look weird. It’s probably meant for tinier boobs, but these come on every trip with me.

Bully Boy Ivy Bra $53

Michaela: Another find from Azaleas: this Canadian brand called Bully Boy. They do mesh bras, but sometimes with big boobs and a small band, they do weird things to your nipples. They smoosh down your nipples or make them look crazy like slits. So mesh doesn’t always work. Anyway, I love this one. It’s 100% cotton. They have tons of colorways. I have the matching panties. I wore this at a recent dinner party under a completely sheer dress. It’s so comfy and you don’t get a uniboob because there’s a little V. I wear it as a shirt in the summer when it’s really hot.

Robyn: Well, I must admit, looking at their website, the images don’t do it justice. The model looks like a very small-breasted woman, so it’s kind of like, “Okay, great, you’re wearing a bralette.”

Michaela: And again, it’s the band. It’s a medium. I wash it, I dry it. Look at how good it looks. It’s honestly like the Gush thong.

Robyn: Does that still exist?

Michaela: Hannah Richtman, will you please restock Gush in black size small?3

Skims Triangle Bralette - $34

Michaela: If I was packing for a trip, there’s one more that I always bring with me. This is the Skims triangle bra. It’s a size small. Luz is the one that told me to get this. It just has a lot of space in the boob and it’s super comfy. I can’t move in it like I can with my other bras, but it looks good under most tops I wear. It’s not really tight enough; if I move too much in it, I fall out. It is comfortable to wear when I’m on my period and my boobs hurt, and so I wear it because it’s soft. It’s supportive enough, not too supportive. It feels like sweatpants for your boobs.

Robyn: How long have you had that one?

Michaela: Probably six months. It does not hold up well. I’ve worn it a lot, but this is the cheapest, and it shows. I like sitting out in the sun and sweating in it, but the other ones have held up so much more.

Skarlett Blue Passion Mesh Plunge Wireless Bra - $48

Michaela: This is another tried and true. I have it in nude as well. It's Skarlett Blue, small. They have a lot of large cup size bras, but this is the bralette. I like the shape of boobs, and bralettes look different on everyone, because everyone has different shaped boobs. And boobs are awesome!! Gemma always says, “Everyone is lesbian above the waist.” Boobies 4ever!!

Wacoal Halo Lace Strapless Underwire Bra - $65

Robyn: (laughing, no—cackling) What do we have here? Is this a Band-Aid?

Michaela: I knew you would love this. This is hi-de-ous. Look at those underwires. Are they as big as my head?

Robyn: This really gives context as to what’s going on beneath.

Michaela: Yeah, boys don’t look. This is a crazy bra solution. It’s so hideous. The first one of these I got was in high school for a dance. It’s Wacoal. A classic. 32DDD. And this baby, it’s not really clothing. It’s engineering. You put it on and there’s this sticky stuff that stays on your skin and you hoist up and around. I wear this out dancing, and you know I always get really hot, and I often take off my bra. And to take this off on the dance floor while I’m wearing a tight strapless top is so hysterical.

Robyn: Where did you get this?

Michaela: Nordstrom. People! Go shop for your bras (and everything) in person is the moral of this whole story. People should really shop when they’re about to get their period too. In high school I had a period bra. I wish I had a picture. It was so–what you’re thinking, it was just even more.

Michaela: I have one more important research finding.

Robyn: Oh is this the…

Michaela: Alien ween.

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Last Sunday I spent the day at Jacob Riis beach, introducing two of my dear friends for the first time, followed by a half pour of wine and an herbed salad at the Greek restaurant down the street, then laughing, and crying, then …

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Last week I returned home after travelin…

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I sold the shoes and bag on Poshmark years ago. Gave the pants and cuff away. But I still have the shirt. Wore it to my first Knicks game with my friend Marsha in 2014. Marsha loved the Knicks, had season tickets, and this game was one of many invitations she’d extend to me over our seven years of knowing each other.

Marsha and I met at B.Robinson, a family-owned eyewear company that her father founded in 1926, and where she worked for all of her career. Marsha was retired, I think, but she still came to the office everyday. Ordered coffee and breakfast from the deli across the street—I’d never known someone who had their coffee delivered—cottage cheese and melon, served in clear plastic clam shells, sometimes a grilled muffin. The crumbs inevitably making a home on her shirt. Always a turtleneck, thick stretchy cotton, maybe Land’s End or L.L.Bean, with an oversized blazer, wool, the fabric slightly pilled, and slacks that puddled over her thick-soled sneakers. Not that different from what the Instagram girls were wearing a couple of years ago.

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Everything in the stor…

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“Are you Robyn?” she asked, her warmth instantly putting me at ease. I was a little nervous—I’d never been to a brand dinner before. Her name was Karyn, and could she take my coat? She whisked away my hand-me-down Persian lamb stroller, and one of the M.M. team members led me to the back of the restaurant and into the mural room.

Over french fries and martinis, The Ballad of the Dish and the Spoon by Cecily Brown behind us, I spotted her laughing with a friend. The kind of laugh that takes over your whole face, your whole body. The kind of laughter that makes you want to join in.

I moseyed over. Karyn welcomed me into the table, where I learned that she also spelled her name with a “y,” and liked her martini Ketel One, dirty too. And her rings! I caught a glimpse of her rings and holy moly they were fabulous. Opulent, mismatched bobbles. The kind of rings that come with time, styled expertly. There had to be a story. So I leaned in to find out.

A month later, we met for drinks at the Chelsea Hotel. It was practically summer. In terms of degrees warmer. Karyn arrived in a crisp white button-down, light blue jeans. Her rings sparkled. We scooted in to the couch at the back of the Lobby Bar, me a bit too close to the tourist next to me because I was worried that I wouldn’t be able to hear Karyn across the Pacific Ocean of a coffee table. Karyn opened up a jewelry box, and I realized that I couldn’t have asked a more perfect person to interview for the inaugural Cocktail (Rings) series.

Jewelry has always felt like advanced calc to me. Clothes, I can style ‘em up, no problem. But when it comes to earrings, rings, necklaces, I get overwhelmed. What to wear? Should they match? So I just opted out, wore very little jewelry. Lately, however, I’ve been gathering inspo from women like Karyn, women who collect jewelry pieces like I do clothes. Hers is an assortment of hand-me-downs and new, rings that she’s rediscovered from childhood. Sound familiar?

For the first edition of Cocktail (Rings), , a fashion publicist, talked with me about playing jewelry dress-up with her mom, realizing how tied to religion some of her rings are, the jewelry she wore on her wedding day, and why this one bracelet hasn’t come off her body since 2015. Enjoy x

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When did you start wearing rings? Oh my gosh. Maybe in the second grade? I actually can’t remember a time when I didn’t have at least two rings on.

And do you remember what that first ring was? It was my communion ring (left pinky finger). So my cross. I used to wear it where my wedding band is. For no religious reason, it was just the finger it fit on. I got this for my communion in the second grade, and that was the first ring I ever really wore all the time, but there were definitely other little funny junky rings that I was getting out and wearing too.

Was there ever a time when you put it away? Yes, that’s a new resurgence. I have a jewelry box in my apartment with me, and I also keep a jewelry box with my mother. We were going through jewelry, as me and my mom sometimes do. We just play a little jewelry dress-up, and she said, “This is yours.” And I put it on my pinky, and said, “This is coming with me.”

I love the idea of you playing jewelry dress-up with your mom. Can you paint the scene for me? How is this going down? My mom keeps a jewelry box on her dresser, as I have always kept a jewelry box on my dresser. Ever since I was in the first grade. I always had a jewelry box. Not many people my age probably had one. I did (laughs).

I don’t even know how it kind of started, but my mom would say, “Come look at my jewelry. Should I change my bracelet?” She’s definitely a jewelry wearer. But she would rearrange her sets a little bit more than I did. For different occasions she would want to wear something different. Which I’m starting to do more, but always within my core pieces. There were always reoccurring moments of me and her in her room, dumping out the jewelry box and finding treasures within her stuff.

Are you like that with other things, or is it specific to jewelry? Specific to jewelry. We’re not really—which is funny because I’m a fashion publicist now—but we were never really fashion girlies. We’re not brand name people. I don’t have a designer bag. It’s just always been jewelry. It’s makeup and jewelry. What else really matters (laughs).

What is one of your earliest memories of jewelry and rings? My first distinct memory of acknowledging or knowing jewelry is my grandmother’s arm. She always had—and then my mom too—she always had gold bangles. Truly almost up to her elbow of gold bangles, or at least for me as a child it felt that way. Like it encompassed her body. And then this ring that I wear on my pointer finger every day for the past five or so years now, she always had this on (right pointer finger).

I have very vivid memories of my grandmother’s dark, veiny hands. She had these big veins and I’d play with them. Just surrounded by gold. And she’d let me play. I could move them in her hand and she never seemed bothered by that. It was a weird thing that could have been taken offensively, but she didn’t care. She never said anything.

So walk me through your jewelry journey. Middle school, high school. I was always finding some sort of jewelry to put on my wrist, even if it was junkie jewelry. It wasn’t always family heirloom-type pieces, but I always had stuff on my hands and wrists.

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“You know, the six year anniversary of New York going into lockdown was on Su…

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The two of us met at a mutual friend’s Halloween party back in 2017; creative Southerners who’ve made New York their home always peek my attention. I wouldn’t have been able to put words to it then, but as we’ve gotten older, and our friendship deeper, I’ve realized that part of this is our insistence on examining the social and cultural norms that began embedding in us before we could even say “Yes, ma’am” or “No, sir.” And then the both of us deciding which parts we want to bring into our adult lives, (and which ones to leave back in the South).

Over lunch of leftover Avgolemono soup and a little white wine at Rosalee’s, we got into that, as I interviewed her on how she expanded her painting from canvas onto clothes, the making of what she calls the “Cure for Loneliness” coat, what it’s like to step out into the world in a garment that demands everyone’s attention, and honing in on her “bat signal.”

Behind the paywall, Rosalee shared her theory about what 20-somethings are doing wrong in New York, her favorite thrift store for five dollar finds, learning how to “be in the loop,” the most incredible thing she found on the streets of Paris, realizing her grandmother’s influence on her and her style, sharing clothes with Nana, and how Southern culture and what she’s feelings impacts what she wears.

Read the interview below, accompanied by Keya Goldfein’s beautiful photography of Rosalee styled in Next Season’s upcycyled knits and the clothes from Rosalee’s closet.

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On her first foray into clothes as canvas

I had some off-white colored jeans, not a fancy brand or anything, but I liked them, I liked the way they fit. I had gotten a little bit of wine on them and a little bit of street mud. And I was like, “I don’t want to throw them away. I’m going to dye them.” So I bought a Rit Dye called “Wine.” And I dyed them and it totally concealed the stains. But then I was like, “What do I got to do with these ugly purple pants? I don’t want these” (laughs).

So I used actual bleach cleaner. I just put the pants down in the tub and was spraying them with this cleaner and water and let it soak for a long time. And so I ended up with these slightly patchy, pale pink pants and I was like, “Oh, great, I’m into this.”

Then to actually cover the stains, I was like, “I’m just going to draw all over the pants.” I just used a Sharpie, which people if ask that fades, and it does a little bit, but I haven’t re-Sharpied it. I could, but it just kind of works. It’s like, nothing is really eternal. People ask me that with my coat too. They’re like, “How do you clean it?” I’m like, “I guess it’s just going to be dirty. I don’t know.”

I called them “Tattoo” pants because that's how I imagine people who have a lot of tattoos are approached. Like, “What's that one?” I go, “This is because moths are really important to me. It represents the divine womanhood, which makes me think of my mother, and she writes about moths.” And that's true. But then also the other would be like, “What's this?” (In a southern accent) “I like shrimp” (laughs). Not of all of it is diffused with meaning. Some of it’s just cute.

On the making of “The Cure for Loneliness” coat

This was more of just I need an interesting coat. I don’t like leaving my house in the winter with a big black sleeping bag on. It’s depressing. It doesn’t feel like an expression of my person. You could have the most amazing outfit underneath and nobody would care.

So I was trying to look for an interesting coat, like a funky plaid or something a little mish-mashed. The only stuff I could find that I actually liked was $8,000. Insane amounts. I was like, “Well, okay. I knew that about myself” (laughs).

Then I finally was like, “Duh, Rosalee just do it yourself.” So then it became just a mission to find a coat canvas. I knew I wanted a fabric that felt durable; obviously something really soft, it’s hard to paint on. I couldn’t have told you exactly what I was looking for, but I knew when I found it, which was at a store in Brooklyn that I like, Unearth Vintage. It was Army deadstock, Vietnam era, men’s, wool.

I didn’t plan the whole thing. I would do a section or a thing at a time. That’s part of why it’s so fun to work on something for yourself. You just do it as you feel called. Like, “Oh, now I have this very clear thing that I want to do here.” And so it is a bit random, but it all goes together somehow.

This coat’s me. Part of what’s cool about it is when I get compliments on it, it feels like compliments on my true self, not just like an aesthetic first impression-based compliment. It’s actually a deeper compliment.

The back is my eyes. So, you know, eyes in the back of my head, just looking at everybody, and then the whole theme of the coat is, I wrote “Limited Edition One-of-One.” Because it’s true about me and the coat.

On what it’s like wearing such an attention-grabbing garment

It’s a commitment. Because people are going to talk to you, which is part of what I love about it. I call that coat “The Cure for Loneliness,” like the ultimate conversation starter. Sometimes I’ll feel eyes on me and my first instinct is to be like, “What?” And I’m like, “Oh yeah, well, of course” (laughs).

When I wear it I have days that I call “Medium For The Living” days. I’m not a medium, but from what I understand, people who are mediums are receiving these messages all the time that they feel like, “Oh, okay, I have to channel this.”

And there’s days where I’m like, “People are talking to me today. It’s just one of those days. Energetically there’s an openness that people are stepping into and okay, fine, I guess I have it in me today.” The coat is a more intentional version. But it does feel like you’re this lightning rod of channeling people.

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On clothes and dressing as a way to hone her “bat signal”

I have this thing right now of honing my bat signal. I only want people who are called to my bat signal to respond to it. So I’m trying to put out a really clear one.

I think I’ve historically had like four or five different ones at a given time and not even sure which ones are on, or turn the wrong ones at the wrong time where people respond being like, “I’m Batman,” and it takes me a year to be like, “You are not. You’re the Joker” (laughs).

I have this ease in that coat in particular because it feels like a really clear bat signal, “This is Rosalee. I am Rosalee. This is true to me, if you’re drawn to that, that’s a good start.” So it’s both an invitation and a filter.

On looking forward to being surprised and curious about the world around her

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Is it just me, or do gift guides seem better this year? I attribute this to people and publications course correcting after last year’s critique on them, which centered on the proliferation of guides. I’m not bothered by the quantity, but I do have a problem with influential people pushing mindless consumption for the buck, without a care for the kind …

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Pam and I met 15 years ago(!!) in Buenos Aires. She’s always had cool style. I remember watching her peruse the vendors at a market in Recoleta and just being in awe of what she found. Pieces that I wouldn’t think twice about, she plucked from obscurity, anointing them special. “My family was a yard sale family,” she told me. “I grew up with that excitement, the whole ‘let’s go hunting.’”

Last month, I stopped by Pam’s apartment in Brooklyn, where she lives with her husband Will, daughter Nico, and beloved bulldog Esteban, to style her in some looks with Next Season’s upcycled knits and the clothes in her closet. Photographer Keya Goldfein then captured Pam at some of her local haunts, like the bodega where she gets her flowers, and inside her home, where Next Season founder chatted with Pam about her custom embroidery and floral arrangements.

Later, Pam and I spoke about her style influences, starting with a rejection of frilly socks, what she appreciates about a southern grandma, making her dad’s love of a tchotchke her own, and the pizza stains that lead to her custom embroidery.

Behind the paywall, we get into how she shares clothes with her husband, what she did with her skinny pants and wardrobe after having Nico, her thoughts on sequins and tulle, her approach to dressing, and how she swapped that infamous wedding shoe for one that she rewears to this day.

Read the interview below, accompanied by Keya’s beautiful photography featuring Pam styled in Next Season and the clothes from her closet.

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On how her upbringing influenced her style

My mother’s Dominican and was always like, “you have to dress well.” It’s the only chance you have to make a first impression. When I was little, she would dress me in these super frilly socks. So the moment I was able to dress myself, or we would go back-to-school shopping, I was a basics queen. I only wanted button-ups. I only wanted sweaters or sweater vest, nice fitting denim. I hated the frill of the way that she forced me to dress.

Growing up my dad was a soil scientist. We grew up on a farm. The amount of times I got home and my dad would be like, “oh, your horse is out.” So I would run straight from the bus, go get a horse. I didn’t wear fussy clothing because I would work at some point.

I also was raised Mormon. That’s why I love a turtleneck, or like a high collar (laughs). My friends to this day are like “you’re so modest.” When I’m like, “oh, isn’t this slutty?” they’re like, “literally not at all.” Well I’m showing a lot of clavicle (laughs)!

That’s a whole conversation about what makes a woman sexy, but I never thought it was showing a lot of skin, or showing expected skin. I love a backless turtleneck, those kind of looks.

On swapping travel souvenirs for something she’ll actually use

I traveled so much with my dad growing up. He was the king of a tchotchke, and I have a lot of those tchotchkes, but I started to be like, “why am I buying this other than to prove that I came to this place?” I thought, “why not buy something that brings joy?” Every time I reach for a jacket or something I say, “oh, I got that when I was with these friends.” I use those things. To just buy more shit, I can’t.

As someone who likes to decorate my house “lived in,” if you will—I don’t know if you know the southern term—like you display all of your pretty things, but those things don’t have to be useless. Some of the things can be your beautiful bag or your jacket.

I also like how it starts the conversation versus, “oh, I have no idea where I got this.” I like to know the history behind the things that I own. It’s definitely become a thing because my friends are always like, “where did you go shopping when you went xyz?” I really only go to eat, shop, and look at stuff.

On turning pizza stains into something beautiful

Will would stain a lot of his clothes, nice clothes. I remember we were making pizza one night, and he got stuff all over his pants and shirt. He sadly attempted to get the stain out, but basically wasn’t gonna wear some of these clothes, and I was like, “well, that’s crazy.”

I was one: really good at getting stains out. But also like, “what if I just cover it up?” I started with either patches or visible mending, something like that, and then I was like, “I could do cuter designs.” Or if they were smaller I was like, “you don’t need a patch for this speck of pasta sauce.”

It was a good outlet as well because I’m a workaholic. It was nice; I have to use both of my hands. I’m either listening to a podcast or watching a program. I couldn’t really be on my phone. So it started as, “okay, this your thirty minutes a night, one hour a night, that you’re not gonna do anything but this.”

My friends got wind of it, and I just started seeing more things I could fix. Will had a few pants that had holes in the knees or in the pockets, so I would start mending them, and then other people would be like, “oh, like can you do that for me? And I was like, “why am I not doing this for myself?” It was at some point when I finally asked the question (laughs).

On sharing clothes with her husband

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Meditatio…

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Anne’s Circular Knitting Journey

The Making Of: Next Season FW2025 Lookbook

Back in August, I met up with Robyn at Prima in Clinton Hill for coffee and delivered her new Next Season top. Earlier in the summer I’d asked to profile her for my newsletter, featuring the top styled with the clothes in her closet and sharing the stories behind her favorite items. Robyn is a sustainable fashion stylist and writer also living in Brookl…

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10 months ago · 15 likes · 3 comments · Anne Warren

Photographed by Keya Goldfein and creative directed and styled by me, this newsletter is the first of a three-part series introducing the women featured in the lookbook. When concepting out the direction, I knew that I wanted to style Anne’s pieces on women who embody the ethos of her brand. “We’re not any one thing,” Annette Fox, an actor, art advisor, and gallerist, aptly said while chatting with Anne about her work. Neither are Next Season’s pieces. They are garments made with reclaimed yarn, that transform when styled within the closets of our models.

I met Annette through my boyfriend Andrew (she’s also the mother of him, Daniel, and Ben). The first time Annette and her husband David invited me over for bagels and lox at their home on the Upper West Side, she walked me through their sunlit apartment and introduced me to their art; the stories she told reminded me of the way I talk about clothes.

A week after Keya photographed Annette in and around her home, I spoke with Annette about dressing to work in the art world during the 70s, how her relationship to fashion has evolved as she’s gotten older, and the influence living in a house full of boys had on her style. We also chatted about why she thinks eclectic wardrobes are interesting, clothing swaps with the women in her family, and the ongoing question: “how long do you keep something that you’re not wearing?”

Read the interview below, accompanied by Keya’s beautiful photography featuring Annette styled in Next Season and the clothes from her closet.

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On her early relationship to clothes

We called “recycling” “hand-me-downs” when I was a kid. I had a neighbor who had two daughters, and I always got their clothes. I never thought twice about it, but I never had to go out and buy anything new. I couldn’t afford anything, but they had nice things, and I realize that was initially my recycling.

When I did want to have the latest fashion, I must’ve been fifteen. By then I had a fashion sense. I really liked a lot of high fashion that I saw in the magazines, all the big designers back then. Yves Saint Laurent, Dior. I was sad that I couldn’t buy any of that, so my father said, “well, why don’t you make it? I’ll get you a sewing machine.” So at sixteen, I had my sewing machine and I started buying patterns and making my own clothes.

On dressing to work in the art world during the 70s

I was very attuned to what I thought I should wear to look a particular way. I went to vintage stores for all my clothes back then. And especially my work clothes, which were suits and skirt suits at that point. I gravitated towards the 1940s because it was very waisted jackets [that] really emphasized an hourglass figure.

Entering the art world work world, I wanted to project a certain sophistication and elegance. And a certain simplicity so that I would present somebody who had not only education, but some kind of soft power at that point, so that I could be be in the room with the big boys.

In the early 70s, it was very much still like the 50s. I mean women, we were struggling to be seen, to be heard, to have agency. In that sense, I was lucky because Sotheby’s—even though it was a very old institution, it started in 1744 in England, and did have a lot of people at the top who were male—they did encourage women in the various departments.

I was one of a group of the youngest women who became vice president early on. They were trying to work with women that way, so I didn’t have to work too hard to make that happen, although there were always some people who wanted to make sure that you stayed in your lane.

On her relationship to trends

I would buy one item in a season and say, “OK if I buy that thing, then I feel that I’m part of the present.” But the older I get, the more I feel that it doesn’t really matter. You make your own fashion. It’s sort of been an eclectic group of things.

I will take something like a coat from the 80s—I bought my favorite winter coat when I was six months pregnant with Andrew. I bought it up in Rhode Island with my mother-in-law, who insisted I buy it. It’s this green fake fur leopard coat, and it has 80s shoulders. I mean enormous shoulders.

Over the years I cut it. It was too long, so I shortened it. I took out the shoulders. I keep aware of what is happening, but also wear the things that I feel most comfortable in, that I think look good.

On the decade of fashion that makes her feel most herself

I think a lot of us go back to an era or a decade. The 40s are an interesting time because you’ve basically arrived somewhere, and then all the clothes from that era signal, “hey, I feel like I know who I am now, and this is what I’m projecting.”

When you get older, you look back at that era and say, “yeah, I like to dress like that because that makes me feel youthful, and I don’t care that it may not be the fashion of this moment, but it was a fashion that made me feel fashionable.”

On how motherhood influenced her style

Motherhood really did inform how I dress because I was surrounded only by boys and men in my house. I realized that I liked the way men dressed a lot. I liked those suits. I liked those blazers. I liked a fitted collared shirt. It influenced me to dress in what I would consider a conservative way of dressing, but sort of signaling men’s dressing, which I really sparked to, because I think it looks great on women.

On how her childhood influenced what she wore and did

I was never a girly-girl fashion person. My brother was able to run around, do whatever he wanted, and I, being only a year younger, said, “well, what about me?” So I was always dressing to go out and play, be on my bike, play stickball, run on the playground, and just not be interested in what the little girls normally did.

[When] I was about six, I was sitting on the floor of the foyer with my classmate, and we were playing with these dolls and giving them a lot of life adventures, and I said to myself, “why am I giving this little doll the kind of life and the kind of things that I wanna do out there?” And I never played with a doll again. I wanted the adventure.

On why eclectic wardrobes are interesting

Sometimes I feel like all of our clothes are costumes because we’re wearing different masks all the time. I mean hopefully we’re authentic, but we do through our clothes present certain things, and sometimes it’s who we want to be at that moment. I think that’s why eclectic wardrobes are interesting because you have all those different character choices staring at you and it’s like, “OK. What do I feel like today?”

On her family’s intergenerational clothing swaps

When the entire family would go up to Rhode Island, we would have our own swap of clothing, handbags, jewelry, shoes. It was the most fun time. It was so interesting to see people’s choices, what they gravitated towards. It was very satisfying. I miss that because not everybody gets together anymore, but even on a smaller scale it can be done. It’s just a very fun, social, female thing. It’s intergenerational. It goes all the way from my mother-in-law, Florence, who’s always been fashionable, to the youngest cousin, who’s a teenager.

My sister-in-laws both give me things at a swap, and it’s something I would never go out and buy myself, but I love it. I wear it and I go, “why didn’t I think about buying that for myself?” I’m not sure I can answer that. I certainly love the fact that something will enter my wardrobe that I had never any intention of buying, but was given to me, and I liked it, and it looks good. That’s the adventure of the swap.

On editing her closet

I guess I’m a victim of holding on to some things too long, whereas both my mother-in-law and my sister-in-law are amazing that way. If they don’t wear it for a season, it’s out of their closet. It’s gone. And I must say I’ve been the beneficiary of my sister-in-law not wearing something or just ready to get rid of it. But because I tend to find pieces of clothing that are more evergreen, I hold on to them longer [ed. note: I prefer to hold onto pieces too. I think we’re too quick to toss something, without really understanding why we’re letting it go.]

It’s an ongoing question: how long do you keep something that you’re not wearing? And sometimes it’s a matter of just looking at it from a different perspective. Sometimes I’m about to donate to Housing Works, and I’m going through the bag of things and I go, “wait a minute. I think I still might want to use that.” And it finds a second life all of a sudden.

This interiew has been edited for clarity. Photography by Keya Goldfein.

You can learn about Annette’s art appraisal and sales services here, explore Keya’s photographer here, shop Anne’s knits here, and hire me to style you with the clothes in your closet here. If you enjoyed this post, please like, comment, and/or share to help others find it.

Realated Reading

We got up at 5 A.M. and drove to Northgate Mall in my parents’ gr…

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Shoes have been my target, starting the first day I wore boots this fall. The evening was chilly enough for my black suede pants with the little kick-flare, which meant I had to wear my Miista boots, a Black Friday purchase that I regretted for years, then accepted after no one would buy them from me on eBay. They’re the ones I reach for when I’m going out because the rectangular-toe elongates the leg like a pointy-toe, and they’re decently walkable. But they still make my feet numb after 20 blocks. Blah!

The following day, I zipped on my sweet-n-sensible Freda Salvador block heel boots to style my friend for my friend ’s upcycled knitwear brand Next Season. These are my “french girl” boots. I like them because of the print, and they’re pretty darn walkable, but that toe, that round toe is just a little too cute sometimes. And now that I have this bob, I can look more sweet than I want if I’m not careful. So I have to mess something up a bit. After going through Rosalee’s wardrobe and helping her organize her beautiful, mostly secondhand, clothes, I took photos of a bunch of shoes that I’m always drooling over.

Back home, I did a little search for the boots and loafers. No luck. I decided to watch Kissing Jessica Stein, one of my favorite fashion writer’s favorite fashion movies. The film is what I call a “comfort movie,” one of those 90s films that makes me nostalgic for a New York that I never knew, but saw on the screen. It’s about a 27-year-old woman who needs to chill the fuck out (relatable), with an incredible book collection and some really nice shoes. Jessica, played by Jennifer Westfeldt, starts dating this very cool downtown woman, Helen, Heather Juergensen, who had me totally rethinking my wardrobe.

Helen’s styling is so simple. Just a top, a bottom, a bag and a shoe. But her outfits feel exciting because the clothes themselves are exciting. The simplicity of a statement piece is something I’ve been thinking about while going through the closets of five women with very different styles for a collaboration with M.M.LaFleur, the Next Season project, and a Wardrobe Editing. When you’re wearing a semi-sheer fuchsia top, like Helen does when Jessica meets her for the first time, you don’t really need to do a lot more, which is such a departure from how I normally style myself because so much of what I’m trying to do is make basics look interesting. Gah. Maybe I needed to change my entire wardrobe. Or maybe I just needed to reevaluate my stuff!!

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Monday, inspired by their closets and the movie, I decided today was the day that I did The Great Migration. The moving of spring and summer clothes to fall and winter. Or at least get it going. The scene was open heart surgery. Bins out, shoes everywhere. It looked like I was throwing a party with the multiple personalities of Robyn: fancy Robyn, crunchy Robyn, sensible-shoes Robyn. Two episodes later, I’d made progress, and realized that I was right; I did just need to look at my clothes with a fresh perspective. But I also need some more sexy-n-sensible shoes, a hybrid of the two boots, with a dash of these J.Crew slingback kitten heels I bought last spring, if I was ever going to unlock a chunk of my wardrobe.

What resulted are the following seven shoes, four of which I’m keeping, and 12 shoes that I saved but didn’t buy (like these $10 Barneys New York pointy-toe mules). There’s a link to a collection on Beni, which then aggregates the same or similar secondhand options in your shoe size, so the link never dies. Enjoy.

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