“I think it’s fun,” Grace said, who straddles the worlds of pop culture and politics, as expressed by her newsletter and her senior correspondent work for The Recount. “As somebody who has a million different interests and everybody your whole life is like ‘Pick one! Pick one!,’ I always recoil at that thought. This is the career that has allowed me to pursue all of them and in every different format.”

“I was a social media manager for years,” she said. “I started with my co-orker, Emily, all of The Recount social accounts from zero. Then I pivoted to production and hosting and did video for years, then I came back to my original love of writing, posting Instagram stories through this entire time that I probably should have deleted and were too chaotic. Whatever…Being able to move through all of these mediums is a real pleasure.”

“To me that seems very exciting,” Ben said. “To be enthusiastic about this condition, this ecosystem that you operate in, because if you’re not — ”

“It’s scary,” Grace added.

“There is also something in what you said Grace,” said. “What’s interesting about your trajectory — and I think that it’s easy to get lost in the sauce of like trying to find a job, especially now, obviously — but I think that your having started as a social media manager and, literally at The Recount and building it up, there was a time in The Recount was nothing and you got in on the ground floor doing a job that was ‘nothing’ and here you are, completely on the other side and have developed a whole career and a whole skill set, etc., etc. Jobs where you can stay in one place? Truly a gift, but the bigger thing, the bigger lesson here for young people, is you don’t come out of the gate being like, ‘I am a host of a TV show!’ No, you have to start somewhere, number one. Number two is taking that little job — social media manager, whatever it is, at a place where your values use align and maybe they don’t have any audience — is huge. It’s always like, ‘Well I gotta work for Google and I have to be the host of their TikTok.’ Well…you’re not going to get that job, baby! I’m sorry. It doesn’t exist, number one. Number two, you’re not getting it.”

“That is how it works,” he said. “The temptation, which I did and I don’t advise, is to jump around and leave. That seems really sexy but you don’t end up with someone like yourself, Grace, unless you stay…You get a lot of gifts in return.”

Listen in to the full conversation above, where we talk the right wing culture creep in reality shows and sports and vice versa along with the man who scammed women for millions by posing as an NFL player. You can also catch the conversation on YouTube and Spotify.

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This then brings us to a very interesting moment Gen Z culture moment that brings together stories of drug usage with a back to school dressing: the emergence of Pablo Pledgescobar, a Penn State student named Agostino Abbatiello who was running a drug ring through his fraternity. “A little bit of parental supervision might have saved Pablo,” Ben said, “but the interesting thing is — and was relating this — one of the kids who got busted was selling coke on Snapchat and was using his like just his regular Snap handle, which is also a derivative of his name…What kind of consequence free environment do we think we life in?”

“It’s not consequence free, because one of his peers narked on him,” said. “Unless there was a cop on Snapchat, some fucking narc friend narked on him…That’s a bigger story! I’d be sopissed if my 20-year-old friend who I was sending Snaps to cause I liked them fucking narked on me about selling coke instead of telling me ‘Actually, that’s illegal.’”

“Was it just an angry pledge?” trend strategist asked. “Like, ‘I don’t want to be doing this free work!’”

'“I don’t actually know how it unraveled,” Ben said. “I just know that it did and that it was it’s been a big scandal…Apparently there’s merch that is a Scarface knockoff, with Pablo Pledgescobar.”

“If anybody was doing this, it was a business student,” Kyle said, “It was not a theater student. This was a business student and it will be merchandised.”

“The fact that he was using the pledges to do this is the most interesting and unusual part of this whole thing,” Anu said. “Coke was present on college campuses — it was there when I was there: that’s happening, that’s not new. This is interesting. Entrepreneurial, really.”

“He’ll get a reality show after jail,” Kyle added.

“It begs the question,” Ben said, “at which point does real world experience meet youthful naivety? To think, ‘I’m gonna do this thing that is deeply, deeply illegal and I’m going to involve many other people, whose incentives I do not know or control in it and assume that it’s going to go well.’…It just seems wild to me.”

“He really hasn’t watched The Wire,” Anu said. “Let’s get some education!”

Would you have bought coke from Pablo Pledgescobar? Will he have a second life? Who knows, but we discuss along with exploringGen Z’s love of theaters, generational thoughts on socialism, and Buc-ee’s as a symbol of the widening cultural influence of the south. Listen in above, and on YouTube and Spotify.

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"That’s a Libra for you,” Denayja, who is a “connector of people and things” and who runs , said. “They’re going to come in with with charm and levity. We love that about them, and I do think that politics needs it…The Democratic Party is offering us nothing — and it’s an exhausting amount of nothing because the ‘We’re going to fight Trump thing!’: that dog is not hunting anymore because it’s all happening around us. With the DSA, people are seeing something they can actually cling to.”

"[The DSA] are saying it’s not about all of these things they’re trying to distract you with, like politics,” Denayja continued. “Governments are supposed to improve your material lives, and improve the material lives of all of us in a broad and structural and systemic way. That’s the core of it, that’s the core of socialism, and that’s the core of the DSA. There’s something to be said for just being around long enough. Growing up in somewhat activist spaces, as a young queer kid, going to protests,you would always see the DSA…If you’re around long enough, eventually you’re going to break through. It’s the timing thing. People are not being offered anything hopeful, anything real, and so much of socialism is real, tangible change.”

“People need something to cling to and a political direction to walk towards,” she said. "The DSA is offering that.”

Denayja continued to explain some of the movement’s weaknesses, in that they’re doing a pretty poor job of bringing in Black voters and candidates, that a whiteness or specific lens will ultimately hinder their own progress, which could change by their investing in Black neighborhoods and spaces to fully understand who they’re connecting with.

She also pointed out something key: identifying local leaders, amplifying and working with them, acknowledging the value and expertise of their non-political experience. “They’re not really existing in arts and creative spaces in the way that they actually really should be,” she said. “I’m no political strategist,” she laughs.

“I do feel like it is trying,” said. "The issue you’re talking about is in the middle, because we can have [diversity] in New York and in LA, but that’s not the whole picture, by no means. It’s funny because they’re trying to solve the problems of the larger Democrat establishment while also repeating some of its biggest issues. It will get there. if anyone will get there, it’s the DSA.”

This then kicked up debating AOC, less about her as a candidate or DSA but how she — via the Woke 1.0 discourse — stepped on a cultural landmine she is typically savvy enough to avoid.

"Thinking about the candidates and the cultural disconnect — because that’s the AOC example is such a great example of that — I don’t think that the people that they’re working with on these campaigns,” Denayja said. “The establishment of ‘You go find the campaign manager that won X race somewhere,’ I think those people who understand how to play the game of politics and winning elections need to be fully hand-in-hand in partnerships with people like us, who understand culture.”

“Absolutely,” Kyle said.

“As marketing is imploding as an industry, I do think we’re going to see a lot more people from our world moving into politics and working on these campaigns,” she said. "Someone should have said Hey! There’s a deeper context to this. and I think we think about things through that lens and, to be fair, [AOC] is not actively running for anything.”

“I don’t know if she’s not running for anything,” Ben said.

"Exactly",” Denayja said, laughing. “There needs to be a real someone in the room to raise a hand and say, This is not going to curl all the way over. and I think that’s also a huge issue with the rise of the DSA as well because Mamdani really did that well. I’ve read every deep dive on his team, and they all understand all of it. Some of them come from politics, many of them just come from the world.”

Certainly an interesting time for politics, as the left and more progressively minded have a huge opportunity to make change via bringing in culture makers to help enact change that can sustain itself. Will that actually happen? Stay tuned. Listen to the whole episode above and on Spotify, where we discuss the new Troye Sivan single, how sports is the new song of the summer, and Gen Z fashion’s hits and misses.

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"You wanted to talk a little bit about why LinkedIn is the best social network,” asked our guest , a social strategist and writer based in Calcutta. “Tell us what you think.”

"For me, LinkedIn has a huge untapped potential,” Soham explained. “The people behind LinkedIn still haven’t been able to tap, and they’re still trying to do that with the latest ‘seems like AI slop.’ They have tapped into the psyche of the youth, psyche of the demographic because. of all the sites, of all the social media platforms, LinkedIn has the most disgusting slop. I’m using the word disgusting because it is.”

“The most disgusting slop,” a hilarious idea that needed a pause for laughter.

“I was trying to find a synonym of the word!” Soham said, “But it’s disgusting is what it is. It’s very repelling. Some days when I open LinkedIn, beacuse I’m not very much active on LinkedIn but I am trying to be…For the longest time, LinkedIn has been repelling for most of the people, except for people who are huge into — I don’t know, whatever they post. Very corporate stuff.”

“Cringe culture,” added.

“There’s a couple of reasons to use LinkedIn over any others historically,” Ben said. “One is because you’re looking for a job and you are trying to find people who are relevant to your job search, or ultimately because you’re trying to memorialize your own success. I feel like people use it as a scrapbook as much as anything else in that regard. The problem is that once we’ve seen 75 pictures of your gorgeous Labradoodle, you really don’t ever need to see a picture of your Labradoodle. Unfortunately, we’re incentivized to continue posting so that we get nothing but corporate Laboradoodles.”

“It’s a funny thing, a very LinkedIn thing,” Kyle said, “is that people do want to see the Labradoodle, which is why Instagram and Facebook have been so successful — but people don’t want to see the Labradoodle as a vehicle to talk about B2B sales. They don’t want that. I want to see the Labradoodle. I want to see Labradoodle every day! but I don’t want to see a Labradoodle that is a Trojan dog to talk about like SaaS and B2B. I don’t give a shit. Let me just see the dog. I’ll like you more. I don’t have to hear the work slop.”

“That’s the most notorious part of LinkedIn,” Soham said, “because people will have to talk about what they do, right? LinkedIn has this very corporate way of bragging about their work. When it started, it was all right. Sure, you’re talking about your work. People get to know what you’re doing and they’re celebrating your success. But I think after a point of time, when you’re just pumping your own chest, I think it gets to a point. It gets to a point.”

Soham continues to explain the thought process here along with exploring Millennial burnout, but most crucially offers an on-the-ground report and context for the ongoing protests in India and the “Cockroach” movement. Listen above and on Spotify as well.

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“Have you heard the song? Had you heard anything but the song for the last six months or so?” he asked.

“I actually searched it up and listened,” international economics major — and ’s former intern — said. “It definitely sounds familiar. I’ve definitely heard of it like somewhere, but I just couldn’t put a name to the song. I was very surprised to see the records it had set because I’m sure songs that are equally popular I can definitely put the name to the song.”

“That’s a ringing endorsement of Ella Langley and ‘Choosin’ Texas,’” Kyle said.

“I read about Ella Langley in I want to say the New York Times, talking about the idea of Ella fellas, who are straight men who are proudly Ella Langley fans,” Ben said, “and this whole idea around the changing of codes of masculinity for country music fans. That was probably three months ago..Maybe the song hadn’t even gone to number one yet but it was thoroughly in its rise. I looked the song up at that point and listened to it and it’s…fine. I don’t care about it one way or the other, but it was — as a matter of fact, I have a little bit of a hard time understanding how it got to be so big as a pop record because it doesn’t feel like a pop song to me. But irrespective, I looked it up then and it went away and I have not heard it since then, that I can think of. Yet, here it is.”

“It gets to the state of things,” he continued. “Our filter bubbles have become so separated and so deeply held that we live in opposite worlds now. Olivia, I wonder as a young person who is curious and engaged, how much do you feel like you have to get outside your filter bubble? Are you even aware that there is a that you’re in a filter bubble?”

“Do you care?” Kyle asked.

“We’re definitely in filter bubble,” she said. “There’s…something called algorithm. I really like listening to things that are a mix, or if you autoplay any songs. The things that are getting suggested are something based on what I’ve been listening to…Country is definitely not something I usually listen to, which is probably why I’ve never heard of this song before.”

“We all live int he world of algorithms,” she continued. “I know some people who really like everything. For some reason they like everything…But if you’re just living, it’s a little bit hard to escape the filter bubble.”

“You’re right,” Kyle said. “I had heard the name Ella Langley months ago from a friend who is a country fan and I kept hearing about this. I still have not heard it. At this point, I’m going to try to not hear it unless I’m forced or whatever…Let me let me see when it actually gets to me cuz like it hasn’t gotten to me yet — and that I find curious.”

“So you’re a Never Ella"?” Ben asked.

“I’m waiting for the world to reveal it to me because that to me is…I’m not going to participate in the Streisand Effect of it getting bigger because everyone is wondering ‘What the fuck is this?’” Kyle said.

Have you listened to “Choosin’ Texas”? Do you care about any of this? A fascinating subject, which we continue into while exploring young people getting involved in stocks, the kissing lawyers caught on camera, and the confusion of AI creations. Listen above along with on YouTube and or Spotify.

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“One thing that I find very interesting about the this obsession that people are having over the Meta glasses and buying Meta glasses is: what do you have to show?” João Rodolfo replied, who is a strategist and the writer of . “In terms of creating, you’re buying for what exactly? Why do you want to transform everything into content? What makes you think that you — like a regular person — must have Meta glasses to record your whole life? Who you who you think is paying attention to it?

“The marketing with Kylie Jenner is a very interesting topic, but I’m also very interested in the consumer mindset,” he continues. “Where do you see yourself using it? Walking around watching a Netflix show? A car is going to pass all over you in the street. What do you what do you want to capture? I’m talking more about the regulars girls buying this…We have this male concern, regarding the male gaze wearing these glasses, but what exactly are you using for?”

“Taking the other side of the of the argument,” Ben said, “As a father who has watched teenage kids grow up, I got served a photo carousel of my kids when they were — I don’t know — six or seven yesterday and It’s very cute. They’re very cute. I’m glad I took those pictures. I’m glad somebody had the presence of mine to take them or to send them — and it wasn’t always me.”

“You can imagine you save this thing for some as-of-yet unforeseen moment when I will want to reflect on the Netflix show that I’m watching right now,” he said. “I tend to agree with you though, João. The relevance and the presence don’t equate most of the time.”

“I can see some use cases,” said. “I do think that is a good example. I can see, yeah, playing a sports game: sure. I am riding a horse or doing some sort of activity that I can to teach you how to do it: okay. There’s a guy on TikTok now — I think he’s he’s in Edinburgh — and he rides his bike with his son and it’s a very cute format. It’s a front-facing camera, so it’s not quite Meta glasses, but you see the son the whole time pointing, like ‘Daddy', there’s this!’ It’s adorable. I can see that being Meta glasses content…I can see it tying into VR and OnlyFans content. That’s a whole other thing we’re not going to talk about — but there are use cases. But, for most people, it’s unneeded bullshit.”

“It reminds me of — Probably in the 2020s it started to emerge? Definitely in 2023, let’s say: the the trend of AI note-taking companion like Otter and all those things started to arrive,” he says, “They would get added and all meetings would be recorded and that was sort of like, ‘Oh great: thank god! We can go back and we can collect whatever if everybody forgot to take notes.’ which inevitably everybody remembered to take notes — blah blah blah blah.”

“Now that we’re like 6 years into this,” he continued, “That to me  — and Ben, I know if you have experience in this too, I’d be curious to get your thoughts — but nearly six years into having almost a log of every fucking meeting you might have taken…those are just sitting there and like I think that’s a really good example of nothing is happening to [that content].”

“We’re reaching an interesting point of inflection,” Ben said.

Are Meta glasses actually needed? Who knows, but we will continue to debate the subject. Listen above — and on YouTube and Spotify — for the conversation with João, where we dive into the desire to stop posting, Olivia Rodrigo’s man in finance, and creating content in multiple languages.

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“We have a very strong like perspective on how we like to show up in the world,” Jenny explains. “We talk about it a lot and that is it is also necessary because, unfortunately, talent management companies don’t have an amazing reputation for how their people operate…The biggest thing we come across, with creators who don’t want to say yes to us if we want to represent them, isn’t that they’re working with someone else — it’s that they’d rather do it alone because management gives them the ick. Our need to show up as the kind, intelligent, wise, calm human beings that we are — I really use the word calm a lot — ”

“That’s a good one,” Ben interjects.

“Especially the creator economy jabronies: they’re just too much. They’re selling you something all the time. They need to tell you how smart they are. They need to tell you what brand they just met with. They need to come up with some crazy idea that’s probably a bad idea, but they’ll say it with such confidence that you think it’s a good idea. That’s exactly the opposite of who how I want us to show up, especially when we’re talking to creators. We lead with questions, we lead with curiosity, we share space together. We don’t really come into those early creator conversations with some crazy agenda or even really a pitch. It’s supposed to be just: What do you want to accomplish? What are you not getting from whatever situation you’re in right now? What do you want to unlock and how can we, as a human, think through that with you whether we’re the right answer or not? We want to get to how we can help you.”

“We don’t share a deck,” she adds. “That’s gross. That’s not what they need.”

“This seems really of-the-internet,” says, “I would hope and expect for a non-traditional space — that is increasingly becoming more traditional — that it would be met with something that is equally as nontraditional. But, on top of that, leading with a youth-first approach. I think that is also a different way of operating than the traditional system.”

“I’m curious,” he says, “The age demographic of your clients. Do they lean more Gen Z? Or are they more Millennial? That approach — I love it! — but does that feel different thank when you’re meeting a literal Boomer.”

“Can we get some Gen X representation here?” Ben asks.

“Yes, we definitely have some Gen X,” Jenny says. “Millennial would definitely be the mode, if you will, but we represent some people in their forties, for sure. Forties and fifties. Then there’s a handful of Gen Zs but I’d say the Millennial crop is certainly the largest.”

“We tend to just work really well with people who appreciate that type of energy,” she says. “I think there are some creators who are like, ‘I want to be sold! And I want you to go out go to bat for me!’ Of course, we want to do that — but that’s not how we believe is the best way for you to actually build a business, for the person representing your paying customer — which is your advertiser — in an asshole-like way. We just don’t think that’s a good idea for your business.”

“Anybody who wants themselves to be represented as a commodity strikes me as like deeply — ”

“Shortsighted,” Kyle says.

“ — shortsighted,” Ben continues, “and deeply odd. That’s an anti-social impulse.”

We continue exploring the world of new talent management and how that intersects with generational differences while also exploring B2B fashion, why Gen Z hates LinkedIn, and how life became work (and we all became worse for it). Listen above, along with on YouTube and Spotify.

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“No, I’m not going to be making any flowers,” replied. “It is kind of cool and cute...but it’s also — well — clay exists. There are ways to do this maybe as an adult and as an actual creative thing, where you don’t need this literal product, where you just shove in the Play-Doh and push and it does all the work for you. It outsources creativity in your own house which seems like a really strange thing to do.”

“We’re well over a decade of kids things from Millennials,” he adds. “I’m surprised it took this long.”

“I was thinking about Legos the entire time,” creative director and writer, , says. “Thinking about the Play-Doh and, just to your point like what took them so long…I feel like I was parentified as a child, right? I feel like Millennial kids, we we went through it, right? We witnessed a lot of stuff and I feel like this is just really helping us get back to play and curiosity more than anything.”

“When I do a Lego build, for example,” she says, “It takes a certain level of focus and intentionality versus when you’re a kid and you’re playing with things. You find out what you’re good at through trying versus when you’re actually doing a build and whatnot: it does connect you to that, that dopamine hit of ‘This is how something looks on the box.’”

“That’s a fair point,” Kyle says. “I do think that Legos like a puzzle, they do give you a guided way to discover and to think and you don’t have to actually work that hard. You could be watching a TV show and doing a puzzle or doing Legos…Unlike those other things, [Play-Doh] doesn’t seem like it really gives you that intellectual payoff. It just seems like you push the clay and that’s it.”

“If what we are identifying is that this is an opportunity for people to engage a mind muscle connection there,” Ben says, “to get off of screens, to work in the present moment — then it’s all fine. I struggle a little bit with the idea that it’s, ‘Here is a thing that worked for kids, so now let’s make an adult version.' Generally speaking that’s reductive and sort of lazy…What I wonder about is how it demonstrates our physiological need to touch and to absolutely be physical in this world, that of course is increasingly digital all the time.”

We continue with Brittany to explore growing up in New York City, the hullaballoo around the latest (Atlantic-based) literacy crisis scare, and some more thoughts on Backrooms. Watch above, along with on YouTube and Spotify.

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“He just seems like he’s alone,” advertiser and podcaster Rashad Rastam of says. “Even though he has all these people around him, he just seems very lonely.”

“He’s not living a real life,” says.

“He’s living with his numbers,” Ben says.

“Which is a sad life,” Kyle continues. “It’s going to lead you to have even sadder health outcomes, not truly devastating, but that is like to the point of other people being a medicine for you. Whatever comes with that can be that can be harmful — but other people are a very key medicine that gets you out doing things, it literally feeds you, feeds your biome, or whatever, but he’s living a very algorithmic, optimized life and we’re seeing what comes with that. It’s not too exciting and it’s also not a salve for very much. It’s a similar thing people are talking about, him and Nara Smith, the same sort of thing’s happening where they try to curate and health-ify life to the point that they’re above anything — but you can’t escape your body or humanity doing what it does, which is the beauty of it but also the pain of it.”

“Doesn’t loneliness kill?” Rashad asks. “It seems like that is stronger than any other thing…If we needed to put a face on what a GLP looks like, it’s him.”

“Depends on your stack,” Ben says.

“True,” Kyle says, “not that I think his health employees are honest, but there is an element of having a healthcare provider or a therapist or whatever who tells you what you want to hear, especially when all this is being monetized. We all know — unless you’re some fucking chud dumbass — that he’s not gonna live forever, he’s going to die…All this is a marketing scheme fantasy to get you to literally buy what he is selling.”

“He was selling vitamins for a minute,” Rashad says, “He was grifting.”

“It’s a whole lifestyle brand,” Kyle says. “That’s why he has a Netflix show. There will be a whole tell-all at some point…The hope that people have for these things is really interesting, of peptides all the way to whatever fuck Brian Johnson is selling, there is so much of like suspension of disbelief, of I want to believe, I want that to happen — but it’s not possible. Sorry.”

We continue, wandering into the what streaming means now, why NYC has been having a non-stop moment, and general thoughts on the World Cup. Catch the episode above, and listen on Spotify too. Note that this episode has a touch of technical issues with video, but not audio.

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“It does this great evolution of reality TV,” strategist and TikToker, Georgia Addo (aka ), says. “It really understand how to make your audience feel like they’re co-producing. Obviously it’s all stuff, but you have like your votes for which Islanders you want to keep and stay for challenges, who’s the most liked, and — of course — it comes on five, six days a week. You have so much time to form these intense relationships.”

“On the brand side it’s great,” she adds. “The audience is primarily women. They’re heavy buyers, they’re heavy consumers so, if you’re a Maybelline or something like that, there’s so much more incentive. Overall, Love Island is a phenomenon. I was telling my friends this, but I don’t think there’s any better content economy at the moment. You have commentators doing hundreds of thousands of views with podcasts for an hour and a half to recap an episode you could just go watch.”

“I ‘love’ — which I want to put in air quotes — I ‘love’ your analysis of it as a content economy,” Ben says. “To me, that’s what makes it interesting, not the show itself and not necessarily any of the takes or the developments. It seems emblematic of a way we consume now, which is a harbinger of what could happen going forward.”

“We’re having a super fan moment,” Ben adds, noting Brent David Freaney’s brat presentation and John Summit at Cannes, “where we bring people closer and closer and closer into the artistic process and that makes it both more engaging but also more fraught.”

“When it comes to super fans, for me,” Georgia says, “Really early in my career, right out of college, one of my first jobs was at Spotify. That was when they were developing their super fan mythology and ethos, really building these fan-first platforms…They just announced was a program where the top 1% of listeners can like get early access to tickets or pit tickets or something. That was my first intro of how important these people are.

“I always tell people like I think we live in this world where it’s co-now,” she continues. “It’s co-create, collaboration, and community, all these things of having bonds…That becomes so hard to lead. If you can’t beat em, join em.”

We continue above, meandering to more thoughts on Cannes this year, sports culture taking over, and what might happen at Taylor Swift’s wedding. Catch the full episode on YouTube and Spotify too.

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“Cannes, as people hopefully remember, started out as a festival of creativity, awarding the greatest advertising and marketing creative,” he explains.

“You’d never know it today,” Clara comments.

“You certainly wouldn’t,” Ben says. “It’s — at best — a marketing trade show and, at worst, a kind of gross display of of excess, from people who have to pay their way into interesting conversations. I just walked here by a pink Chrysler…What’s the name of these ridiculous, ridiculous cars? Cars that should never have been made, turned into a limousine?

“Making Science?” Eli Williams of Side Projects asks.

“An AI company called Making Science,” Ben confirms. “Guys at Making Science: don’t do that again. It was a bad use of your marketing money. In 2011, when I first came, it felt like a gathering of creative people with some salespeople and platform people. The agency groups were kind of like on the sidelines a little bit, but it felt very organic — and now it is the opposite of that. So much so that I think we’re — I was just having lunch about this — that I think we’re we’re moving back to a space where the thing to do is to show up by not showing up. It’s just to ride the wave that exists without having to put much into it because everybody else will allow you to find access, find a platform — ”

“Someone else will provide you lunch,” Clara says.

“Shout out, Bloomberg Media,” Ben says.

“This was Eli’s question, and I don’t mean to crib it,” Clara says, “but it kind of goes to that…If you didn’t know that Cannes was an advertising festival, what would you think it was a festival of? Just a celebration of money? A celebration of wealth?”

“Well,” Ben begins, “it’s much more stupid than that. That is a that is an interesting thing to ponder. It feels like a trade show or a convention, but for anybody who’s never been to a trade show or a convention of this magnitude, it just feels incomprehensible. I guess it feels like Times Square or something, like endless Time Square.”

“People walk really slow here too,” Eli adds.

“It’s why we’re really about IRL community and tactility and getting people together,” Eli says. “Friction and culture.”

“We were talking early in the week,” Ben says, “and my experience is that — over the course of the week — themes emerge. The tenor changes, realizations happen, conversation throughout, and that’s valuable. That’s why we’re all here. But last year I remember distinctly that on Sunday, when I got here, early into Monday, everybody felt really shook about AI. There was this sort of underlying feeling of ‘This is the end. This is the last time we’re coming to Cannes. The robots are gonna eat our lunch.’ By the end of the week, I think everybody had settled into the idea that: here we are in this idyllic place, we get to see all of our friends from the industry, it’s gonna be cool. This is all fine! We’ll we’ll be okay. What has happened in the year since is that we have seen the AI empire — or emperor — has maybe fewer clothes than we thought.”

“It’s interesting to see how the trend cycle starts,” he continues, “and then comes to fulfillment a year later at the same time, as we strike all of the words from our vocabulary, that we can’t use anymore after this week — because they have been burned to death by overuse.”

“Enjoying the visual of AI emperors-strip poker situation,” Clara says, “which happened over the course of last year.”

“People just realized,” Ben says, “that this ecosystem runs on relationship and it runs on in-person and, ultimately, we’re seeing that the technology is great at a lot of things — but it’s not great at rosé.”

Listen and watch the full episode above, where the Eli, Clara, and Ben discuss brands as mammals, drone performances, and the future of Mr. Beast.

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“I don’t know,” replies. “I struggle to take away his artistry by virtue of his engagement with capitalism. He falls into the same camp as Zoran Mamdani because they are children of hip-hop. There is equivocation or equanimity between financial success and social success.”

“I don’t think it’s a rapacious thing,” he says. “Holly, what do you think? Is he just out for the bag? Or is it deeper than that?”

“I think,” , editor and founder of , starts, “Number one: he’s got cash to burn. He loves gambling. He loves poker nights with Kylie Jenner. This is probably a little hobby of his. It may be not-that-deep.”

“He’s also trying to appeal to the masses, or what he deems the masses are,” she continues. “His comments about not wanting to do ballet or opera and his marketing for Marty Supreme trying to bring a smaller film to more people and, then, ultimately gambling, prediction markets — whatever — is a thing that some of the massed engage in. It’s not high brow, I’ll put it that way. he’s kind of trying to get closer to feet on the ground, regular people, one of the guys.”

“The people who criticize him are probably slightly higher brow, more academic,” she adds. “The people who would watch it and be like ‘That’s a cool ad.’ probably also like putting a bet on the game sometimes.”

“I wonder if high brow even exists at this point anymore,” Ben says.

Holly raises her hand. “I’m raising my hand because high brow now is not having to promote yourself online. That’s what I think it is…Low brow is more ‘Click the link in my bio,’ which is me every damn day.”

“Are you low brow and owning it?” Ben asks.

“Yeah,” Holly says. “I’m low brow and owning it. It’s all I can do.”

“I do agree with that,” Kyle says. “But part of that is literal class-based but also the performance of class. Some people have to do it. Kylie and Timothee aren’t doing the click the link in bio because they don’t have to…His literal age peers, who are trying to be actors? Oh they are. They’re on TikTok. They’re having to make their comedy videos every day.”

“This is really fascinating,” Ben says. “There’s a two-by-two to be drawn here, of high brow/low brow, accessible opportunity/optional opportunity. Something like that.”

Something like that indeed. The chat continues, exploring the tiptoeing drama around Ariana Grande’s health and the overflowing love around the World Cup in North America. Listen above, and or on YouTube and Spotify.

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“I think it was on Friday — it might have been Thursday, I don’t remember when actually — Hunter Biden joined or activated his [Twitter] account,” explained. “He basically logged on and has been like non-stop Tweeting…He has been going wild. People will come to burn him, like ‘He’s a fucking crackhead!” and share an AI photo of him smoking crack and he’ll be like, ‘Actually? Yes, but that is not a crack pipe I would use and anyone who knows anything about crack would know that.’ There’s there’s all this sex shit and drug shit and the political theory. It’s amazing. He has united a lot of Twitter.”

“He it really is also though trying to unite people and bring people together,” Christian Ornelas, who works in communications, explains. “I feel like he’s he’s rallying against ‘the Epstein elite,’ and he’s trying to get people to listen to each other in a way. I think this is the way to do it? Like just be honest and be funny and that’s people all people care about.”

“Kinda hot, done drugs, talk about fetishes every so often,” Kyle adds. “Great!”

“What do the Bidens have to lose at this point?” Christian adds.

“Jill’s got a book to promote,” Ben says.

“She nudged him,” Christian says.

“Maybe she’s been Tweeting the whole time and it’s not Hunter?” Kyle asks.

“He did, apparently, Tweet that he is going to launch a Substack,” Ben says. “At what point do will we bring together the Twitter and the trolls and the Substack girlies into the ultimate, super friends, Justice League of America type situation? Where President takes us into the future?”

Great questions, that we’ll have to follow along on Twitter to find out. Continue listening, as we explore the relationship between generations and the use of slang, why “touching grass” may have been a tech psyop, and much more. You can also catch this episode on YouTube or Spotify too.

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“The only real way to disrupt and actually get to the V2 or V3 of these systems,” he continues, “is to have a really clear petri dish modeling of what the future could look like. The only real way to do this is to be Campus.”

“It started with COVID and, for better or worse, AI is getting us here,” says. “This is a make or break moment for many, many industries. Smoke and mirrors are making it feel like everything is fine, don’t worry about us, but things are about to fall apart. Hollywood is a really good example of this. Museums, fashion, political parties or branches of politics, marketing agencies: they are fighting for their lives and they don’t want you to know that. Schools are one of the biggest examples…It’s very real shit because they didn’t pivot quick enough.”

“These are the things that happen when you gatekeep too much and you don’t elevate younger people and younger thought and new systems,” Kyle adds. “It speaks to what we talk about, this need for intergenerational dialogue. When you don’t have that, things start to crumble.”

“Tade, to that end,” says, “Who do you who do you look at and say, ‘Okay, this system approximates.’ or ‘This university approximates.’ the sort of thrust of what we’re doing?”

“We’re a part of multiple scenes,” Tade replies. “I’m a part of the Silicon Valley scene, but I’m also a part of the higher education scene. The big thing that was missing was that bridge. The Silicon Valley people don’t understand that higher education was not completely wrong in everything they were doing…America still has, in my opinion, the number one or number two higher education system on the planet. There’s some things that were completely broken that needed to get fixed, and vice versa. Higher education didn’t understand that technology was not optional. For a long time, learning how to teach online was this, ‘Do we really think that education should happen online?’ for decades. Most universities just thought of it as almost like an option, this joke, this nice little toy.”

“Who do you look to? There are a handful in higher education,” he says. “Number one is probably Michael Crow. He’s the president of Arizona State University. He figured out a long time ago that the old state school model, where everyone is trying to replicate the Harvard model, just wasn’t right. It just doesn’t make sense. You’re a huge land grant institution. You have all of these unique advantages by being a state institution. Why are you trying to copy an elite private? It doesn’t really make sense. He figured that out quickly and he took ASU’s enrollment from 30,000 students to over 100,000 students.”

“I’m 50,” Ben replies, “the idea that ASU would be mentioned in a list of top colleges at all in my lifetime was incomprehensible.”

“Crazy,” Kyle added.

“Literally crazy,” Ben says. “It’s funny. My son goes to Elon in in North Carolina, which is a school that — when I was in college — I’d never heard of. Many people my age who have kids, who haven’t gone through the college process, aren’t aware of it. Everybody that I know under 35 is like, ‘Oh, I have a friend there.’ Or, ‘Oh, that’s a great school I went to.’ These sorts of changes are possible and they can shift. For me, the interesting thing about all of this is…how do we figure out how to make the journey to and through college less monolithic? How do we make it less arduous? How do we make it, if not less expensive, then certainly easier to manage the extent of?”

A great question that…there are some clear and unclear answers too! We continue chatting all about the state of colleges, students booing at AI chatter, and the Backrooms with Tade in the full episode. Listen above, along with on YouTube and Spotify too.

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“But that’s always been the case,” says. “Those things have always been been determined by somebody else.”

“You’re both right, obviously,” adds, “but I think the other thing too that makes someone like an Eli, or whoever the person of the moment is, different is that very teenage thing that a lot of us still have and I think people naturally have in general and social media exacerbates: the desire to be the first person to discover something, that Christopher Columbus sense of ‘I found this person and my feed gave it to me as a gift and I am the first.’ Whether or not that is true doesn’t matter, but it’s what the clipping economy preys upon, that idea that you will find that novelty and feel special.”

“My fear — and I’ll just call it right now — I bet you that all of the same behemoths that tried to claim taste and tried to like um you know optimize taste,” Carmen explains, “the next word that they’re going to go hard on and make a campaign for is discernment. I feel like it’s just like already happening. August of this year, they’re going to be like, ‘No, no, no. We were just joking about taste! What we actually mean is discernment, the ability to tell between two things what is good and what is not.’”

“It’s funny,” Ben says, “I see it from a slightly different thing. As a matter of fact, I was at a talk last week where a pretty famous creative director said, ‘We’re not worried about juniors being replaced by AI because juniors at our shop are encouraged to use AI so that they are exposed to a million things so that that’s how they develop taste because taste is just the accumulation of stuff.’ He didn’t say it quite that way, but that was the thrust of it. And I was just like that is totally wrong. Absolutely wrong. Weirdly, he walked it back and made taste into actual discernment of all of that stuff. It was shocking to watch the sales job this was this guy was doing.”

“My point simply being, Carmen, that discernment has been activated,” Ben adds. “We just need Greg Brockman to tweet that he’s got je ne sais quoi and then that’ll be over too.”

“I’m telling you, Greg Brockman’s gonna Tweet about discernment,” Carmen says. “I give it six weeks.”

Listen to this conversation in full above, where we explore the Enhanced games and parental influence on music. You can also listen on YouTube and Spotify too.

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“One of the conversations I had this morning was around the idea of of individuals or people with small platforms not really being able to make a difference in those wider discourses,” explained, referring to an discussion he had earlier in the day with people about AI. “I was reminded of that the story that Cal Newport wrote recently, where Dwight Eisenhower, who — at the time — was the president of the US, had a heart attack on the golf course and it catalyzed this whole discussion around diet and exercise as a means to avoid heart disease and then gave rise to a boom in the food pyramid and running culture and all this other stuff.”

“One guy — albeit somebody quite important, but one guy — has a medical emergency and it catalyzes this daisy chain of effects,” he says. “Matt, I wonder, is there anybody you’re looking at there or anywhere who who you feel could catalyze that kind of reaction — outside of Rihanna.”

“Just to thumb it down to one individual is kind of like tricky,” consumer trends researcher, Matt Smith, says. “I get what you’re saying around like people advocating for their own communities and I think that that’s cool, but — Man. — at the same time, I hate finding myself on the same side as the NIMBYs, you know what I mean? We need more houses at the same time we need fewer data centers and more houses. Whoever’s running on that platform could galvanize both.”

“Less data centers, more houses,” Ben wonders. Perhaps that is a winning strategy? We continue this discussion, getting into the politics of a figure like Spencer Pratt and if creators like James Charles are as relevant today as they were ten years ago. Listen in above, and on YouTube and Spotify.

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“When you hear a college student say that, a member of Gen Z, our next generation, what do you what occurs to you?” Ben asks.

“When I hear that, what I think first and foremost, is whatever campaign to make it resonate with young people and, culturally — the AI apparatus tech people, whoever — their effort to make it sort of like cool is not working at all,” says. “More importantly — and I think they go hand-in-hand completely — is one of the stories we talked about talking about was that it has done a rug-pull for a generation.”

“I would be intrigued, Campbell, if part of that sentiment is around that,” Kyle says. “I’m not even sure that that is true, but I do think the cultural, economic, technical soup that it’s making just makes it not cool. I just don’t think despite the Palantir chore coat and Claude hats, I don’t think there’s anything you can do to make tech like AI cool. I think it’s inherently uncool and, when I hear Campbell say something like that, it’s a response to that as well.”

“I’d certainly agree,” Cambell says. “I think, especially for people in my age demographic, a lot of these things are as cool as the people who are making them are cool. You can call Mark Zuckerberg a lizard, but he’s kind of cool — ”

“You think Mark Zuckerberg’s cool?” Kyle asks.

“What?” Ben says. “You’re tripping, bro.”

“Listen,” Campbell says, “He’s kind of chill, in a certain respect. As weird as he is, he’s kind of the boy. The entire setup of Facebook is because he wanted to like rate girls because he was mad that he someone rejected him.”

“Exactly: not cool,” Ben says.

“That’s funny!” Campbell says.

“It’s funny, maybe, but not cool,” Ben says.

“Incel,” Kyle sys.

“Everybody wants to get young men on your platform, you need to have that incel swag,” Campbell says. “To get to get back to my point, when you have someone like Sam Altman, who’s the spearhead of OpenAI and ChatGPT, Sam Altman is not cool. He’s not cool.”

“And Elon,” Kyle says.

“Elon is such a dork,” Campbell says. “These guys are dorks. You can get into the minutiae of my age demographic, of people realizing that AI is a really expensive like tool to be used. And, for the most part, we are going to be paying the tab, whether that’s environmentally with the increase in cost of living and energy and RAM and all that stuff. But, at the end of the day, the guys who are trying to bring this technofuturist world to fruition are the guys that I would have kicked out of a party last weekend like at college. They’re losers. They’re nerds. They’re not cool.”

What do you think of AI’s cool gap? Or is there one? Listen to the full episode above, and on YouTube and Spotify, where we continue to debate Charli XCX’s return and men trying to be hot forever.

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HIP REPLACEMENT typically explores Gen Z, Milllennial, and Gen X cultural overlaps and differences, to help encourage more generational cross-pollination. The podcast mainly looks downward, speaking with younger guests to better understand what twentysomethings-ish are into, but we’re piloting a companion podcast that looks upward, bringing on guests over forty to share insights and advice on life stages. But! We need your help by sharing your thoughts on the stages of life, via filling out this form. It should take five minutes. Thanks for the support!

Do you know what a BORG is? For the unfamiliar it is a “blackout rage gallon,” a popular Gen Z college drink that sees a gallon jug mixed with water, a water flavor additive, and a liquor of choice. Thus, an all day libation.

BORGs were on the mind for as he recently was visiting Campbell at college where he got to see the drink firsthand. was familiar with them while our guest, of , was new to this.

“Who needs a little flask when you can just have your gallon jug with which to get blackout raging?” Ben said, before admitting such an encounter was not something he loved seeing. “The whole thing as an indicator was pretty scary, to be honest,” he said. “When you’re young and your constitution allows it…I guess? But it it does it’s a real counter-indicator to this culture of moderation, dosage, so on and so forth.”

“Do I live under a rock? Is a BORG a thing?” Kate asked.

“Borgs are definitely a thing,” Kyle said. “People will decorate them. They’re very colorful. It makes this otherwise obscene thing really cute in a way…If I was in college now, I would be going crazy with a BORG but, no, it is a bit of a hellscape. It reminds — which is a tangent but related, but there is a conversation to be had about young people and drinking, not that I think they’re doing anything other than what any of us did — of this woman on TikTok who is getting attention for the ‘fifty day alcohol binge challenge’ — ”

“Bender!” Kate says, of the person doing the #50DayBenderChallenge on TikTok.

“It’s horrifying,” Kyle says. “There will be a conversation about young people drinking in the way there always is, for every generation.”

“What’s the 50-day bender challenge?” Ben asks.

“She just drinks a lot,” Kyle adds.

“In the age of the quantified self, I would think there’s some sort of metric you have to hit…Can we get any metrics in here?”

“I would establish a bender as alcohol every single day,” Kate says. “How I view it is you’re drinking every single day in some capacity to make it a bender.”

“I’m on a bender all the time in that case,” Ben says.

Naturally, this leads into conversations about monitoring health, which Ben raised and Kate brought back to how she doesn’t wear her Oura ring when out as it can be a bully. Listen to the full episode above, where we discuss flasks and pre-games trending because of the economy, cultural sentiments and thinking around AI, and why work “never stops” now. Catch the conversation on YouTube and Spotify as well!

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“I was actually recently talking about this with my friends,” Kayla Suarez of social club and podcast Grownkid said. “Especially after the Coachella performance that Justin Bieber did. We got to talking just about pop stars nowadays and who is the ‘boy pop star,’ like the one like people are fainting over…Justin Bieber’s the main one.”

“It feels like back then there were these statement artists that everybody knew,” she added, “but now it seems like there’s just so much being put out now…It’s so hard to stand out now as the main pop star. I definitely think Justin Bieber at the time was that person.”

“The one that comes immediately to mind to me is Kanye,” Ben said. “That has interesting implications because of all of his public and private foibles…Everything from reality television to architecture to running for president. It makes you wonder in the future: are [these] the only people that are going to be able to touch multiple areas of culture, to break containment and be known across multiple spheres? Are we destined for President Camacho of Idiocracy because getting famous in that way is the only way to actually build consensus?”

“Do you not think it’s a Kardashian?” posed. “I feel like Kim occupies a bigger space than Kanye…She is occupying all those territories by blackfishing and appropriation. She has somehow made herself every woman, every race at all times. I want to say that, but I also think…Kylie? I don’t know.”

“Kayla, break the tie here,” Ben said. “What do you think?”

“I think you make a good point with Kim Kardashian,” Kayla said. “I for some reason completely forgot about her.”

“Which is probably a good thing!” Kyle said.

“What about her ex-husband?” Ben asked.

“But are people talking about Kanye anymore?” Kyle said. “I think people are still talking about Kim.”

“I think Kim is always being talked about,” Kayla pointed out. “There’s never a time where she’s not being talked about. She’s always doing something and, even if she’s not doing something, she’s just being talked about. A big part of that is because she’s been on television for decades now. She always has a presence even when she’s not exactly online or sharing things. I think with Kanye, he has peaks where he is most talked about.”

“Without a doubt,” Ben said. “Clinically true.”

“Kim Kardashian overall has aura and effect,” Kayla said.

It’s a fascinating question. Who do you think the most culturally pervasive figure for Gen Z is? Listen in to the full conversation above or on YouTube or Spotify.

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“She’s 60 plus and I don’t know that if I were a 60 plus star, I would be in a position where I was not demonstrating my full like mobility,” he added.

It’s an interesting question, or at least something that has been floating around culture giving the launch of the star’s new era and her appearance with Sabrina Carpenter at Coachella.

“That’s a bad bitch,” guest Jahanara Chaudhry said, who is a creative communicator and events manager in London. “You’re not going to hold that one down.”

“So everyone sees Madonna and they suspend disbelief?” Ben asked.

“I thought it too,” said, “but it doesn’t matter because the typeface looks cool, it’s shot great. If the song was bad, it would be different. But the song is actually good! Even the Sabrina collab, I was like…this is good. I’ll listen to this! I can push past grandma falling on the dance floor, but that’s also part of the lore. That’s kind of amazing.”

“She’s one of the only lasting artists that has reinvented herself decade after decade,” Jahanara said. “She’s been there all my life at least. I definitely commend her for sticking through it. Some of her choices I do find a bit crazy, and may not necessarily be stuff that I want for myself or the elderly people in my family. However: they’re not Madonna. That’s a different entity.”

“There are women who overall get aged out so fast,” she added. “You will be put out onto this point of you’re now 30, 40, whatever: you’re irrelevant, you’re dead to the world, blah blah blah…I don’t envision anyone else who’s at the same level of Madonna that still can do what she’s doing and can still draw the crowds.”

“I want to be very clear here, as an AARP qualifying member myself,” Ben noted. “I have no doubt about her fitness or agility. I just thought the choice of image was strange, given preconceived notions that that we may hold about women as they age. That struck me as odd.”

“The thing that is very interesting in all of this, to the point of Coachella being truly in its flop era, she mentioned druing her appearance she was wearing the same outfit that she wore 20 years ago when she performed the dance tent in Coachella,” Kyle said. “But there’s also a trend…into a more Gen Z dance-not-dance space with Peaches, Robyn, and even Tiga’s new album, Madonna, etc.: all these people who are like over the hill, quote unquote, and they make dance music or are interacting with the club. Björk is a really good example, talking about how they’re not going to stop clubbing until they die, which is incredible and beautiful.”

Listen to the full episode above, where we unpack the behaviors of modern audiences, the state of creators and brand events, and the future of Coachella. You can also listen on YouTube and Spotify.

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