Joan describes what our personal cosmology includes; how it enables us to “be in this world but not of this world” and break free of the prevailing “disconnection domination culture”, as named by former episode 6 guest, Marion Rose Ph.D.

Joan names the primary tool for building our personal cosmology as our inner guidance system, our intuition and embodied inner wisdom, drawing from Ke’oni Hanalei’s indigenous Mū and Hawaiian teachings on our inner feminine as an oracle and leader.

00:40 Season One Reflection

01:35 Cronehood as Inquiry

03:33 Personal Cosmology Introduction

06:27 Breaking free from the Dominant Culture

09:48 Why Cosmology Matters

12:21 Life Riddles

14:30 Embodied Freedom Shift

19:16 Beliefs and Inner Authority

25:59 Inner Guidance Channel

30:40 Season Two Invitation

32:12 Closing and Gratitude

To Go Deeper into your personal Cosmology

Schedule a free Clarity Call

Contact Me to be added to my Email List.

Mentioned in this episode:

Fr. Seán Ó'Laoire, PhD

Marion Rose, Ph.D.

Ke’oni Hanalei

Margaret’s own health challenges, including Melanoma, Hashimoto’s, Celiac and a traumatic C-section as well as a very difficult divorce and years working in the “broken medical system”, initiated Margaret as an impassioned voice for personal empowerment and sovereignty in creating and maintaining our own health.

In this episode Margaret invites us to take ownership of our own health creation journey as she debunks the illusion that we are victims of our symptoms or diagnosis. She calls us back to remember both our power of choice and authority as the experts on our body. And she offers important insights on the nature of our womb as an intuitive technology and untapped resource for guidance and clarity.

Margaret and her husband, Dr. Daniel Hudson, co-steward an ecosystem including Yin Care, the Yao Clinic, and the Yao Company, emphasizing womb wisdom, functional and Chinese medicine, and empowering patients rather than fostering dependency.

05:00 What Is Sovereign Medicine

09:14 Birth Trauma and Medical Indoctrination

14:27 Reclaiming Trust in the Body

18:18 Yin Care and Health Ecosystem

22:28 From Fear to Self Responsibility

33:56 Health Creation Journey Mindset

36:20 Margaret’s Origin Story

40:23 Trauma and Divorce

41:00 Melanoma and Sun Exposure

41:40 Hashimoto’s and Celiac

43:52 Trusting Your Body

47:01 VBAC Empowerment Journey

50:40 Birth Choices and Advocacy

53:47 Womb Wisdom Technology

57:58 Yin Care Offerings

01:04:59 Grace After Birth Trauma

01:11:16 Full Circle Closing

Guest Margaret Jacobson, MHA, MPA

Website: Yin-Care®.com
Includes a sign up for a FREE tutorial on Yin-care®’s Womb Empowerments to transform your life!

Use listener discount code crone15 for 15% off in the Yin-Care Womb Wisdom Store
(includes sessions)

Going Gluten Free talk mentioned in this episode

Social Media: IG: @yin_care, on FB, TikTok, YouTube and Rumble: @yincare

Host Joan Advent, MSW

Website: JoanAdvent.com

Jenny offers her reflections and inspiration on the mid-life metamorphosis available to us as women through the Meno-portal we universally and uniquely face in mid-life.

She offers her wisdom and experience on: discovering the unique “tone of our truth”; negotiating the medicalization of our natural transitions, such as menstruation and menopause; listening to the wisdom of our own bodies and cycles; overcoming fear and finding faith; meeting the mad woman archetype within us; and creating a life that is genuinely nourishing.

Jenny includes her personal story of selling everything to move she and her family to a remote fishing village in Mexico to escape the rat race, only to discover that she brought the stress and pressure of life with her.

Seven years later Jenny has found safety, presence and a trustworthy authority within her as well as simple nourishment in everyday life.

01:18 Meet Jenny Glick

04:56 Midlife Portal Begins

06:17 Medicalization vs Initiation

09:50 Listening to Body Wisdom

15:21 Truth Tone and Not Self

19:06 Nourishment and Safety

22:36 Leaving the Rat Race

27:48 Social Media and Body Image

36:32 Life Spiral Not Comparison

41:19 Faith Over Fear

46:49 Offers and Resources

50:36 The Mad Woman Archetype

59:38 Closing Blessings

Guest Jenny Glick, MA, MSC, LMFT, CST

Website: https://jennyglick.com/

FREE OFFERING: Unlock your relationship through the lens of POLARITY.
Your FREE micro-dose of goodness here: https://go.jennyglick.com/polarity

Your Marriage Is Your Ashram Signature Online Course: www.JennyGlick.com/YMIYA Use code: THANKS50 for 50% off

Two openings for private mentoring. Application here: https://forms.gle/cuH6CVQtP2j54U7b6

Host Joan Advent, MSW

Website: https://www.joanadvent.com/

The group names toxic maternal guilt, comparison culture, and “fixing” models of care, emphasizing grief, self-care, finding genuinely supportive community, developing and trusting our intuition, and long-game parenting.

They close by celebrating their children as teachers and sharing their work in perinatal and infant mental health, women’s sovereign health and birth integration, and foster/adoption advocacy.

02:13 Meet the Mothers

06:33 The Crone Codes of Motherhood

09:35 The Shock of inconsolable Crying

12:30 Birth Trauma and Expectations

19:30 Transforming the Martyr Story

22:52 Systems that Disempower Mothers

26:26 Guilt Grief and Isolation

32:28 Self Care and Maternal Health

36:47 Recognizing I hold the well being of the household

40:15 Anger Tools and Finding Support

42:29 Acceptance of the repetitive Chores

43:10 Being outed by my kid

45:13 Fixing model's of care

48:01 What we need in community

51:56 Comparison Culture Pressure

55:55 Single Mom Defying Norms

01:01:20 Truth Teller Child Wisdom

01:09:13 Celebrating our Motherhood & our Children

01:20:10 Naming Their Life Work

01:30:58 Final Encouragement To Moms

Host Joan Advent

joanadvent.com
Instagram:
You Tube: @joanadvent7171

Guests:

Katie Fusco

describes her working life as deeply humbling, for the past twenty years, she has been supporting babies, toddlers, children, teens and families, in the contexts of education, health care, fostering and hospice care. She currently works as a Specialist Perinatal and Infant Mental Health Practitioner for the National Health Service in England, and is also in the process of creating The Crying Clinic, her own private practice as an Aware Parenting Instructor. Katie stands for full, untethered and fierce emotional expression, in response to stress, trauma and grief.

Contact Katie on Instagram: @thecryingclinic

Jade Orth

is a heart-centered community builder and creative. She is a wife, mother of 3 and her passion is supporting and advocating for children and families as a foster and adoption specialist.

Contact and follow Jade on Instagram at @jade_orth and YouTube at Case notes and Cardigans

Margaret Jacobson MHA, MPA

known as The Mother Rising, is a mother of three young adults, a health creation mentor and the host of The Yin-care® Podcast.

With a background in Psychobiology and Master’s degrees in Health Services Administration and Public Administration, Margaret spent years inside the medical system integrating other forms of medicine trying to “change” a broken system before transitioning to a path of “sovereign medicine.” Alongside her husband, Dr. Daniel Hudson, she co-stewards a health ecosystem including Yin-care®, YAO Clinic, and YAO Company. She is dedicated to helping women step out of medical indoctrination and reclaim their health through “womb wisdom,” functional medicine, and self-governance. Her most prominent work with women can be found at www.yincare.com. You can follow her on social media on IG: @yin_care, on FB, TikTok, YouTube, Substack and Rumbe: @yincare

In our deeply moving conversation Alexandra shares, for the first time publicly, what she lived through following her son’s birth injury and subsequent terminal diagnosis.

She shares the stories of the 2 “pits” she lived through - first facing immense pressure on her own during the initial days in the hospital and then 6 and a half months later immediately following Aksel’s death.

Alexandra shares her story of hard won resilience through her return to God and Jesus that enabled her to emerge from those pits and alchemize her grief to found The Living Scroll School, a faith-centered community that supports over 200 women in deepening their relationship with God and walking boldly in their purpose.

00:37 Meet Alexandra Smith

04:28 Easter Timing and Testimony

06:03 Hospital Diagnosis and Faith

11:34 Second Pit and Loss of Identity

17:08 One in Four Child Loss

21:11 Between Heaven and Earth

23:59 Jesus Vision and Trinity

26:20 What are our Gifts of Holy Spirit?

30:01 Message to Grieving Mothers

32:09 How to Honor Your Grief

34:27 How to Support Loss Mothers

37:04 Everyday Devotion Matters

39:20 Love After Child Loss

41:49 Easter Reflections on Mother Mary and Mary Magdalene

47:47 Women Obedience and Power

50:30 Living Scroll School

58:09 Alexandra’s Closing Prayer for Listeners

Alexandra’s Website: www.thelivingscrollschool.com

Special Offer for Crone Codes listeners:

~$400 off enrollment in the May 2026 SIGHT cohort

Use: https://www.thelivingscrollschool.com/sight and include my name Joan from the Crone Codes in the “where did you hear of us” on your application.

Living Scroll School Free Membership Access here: https://www.thelivingscrollschool.com/lss

Transcript

Joan: Welcome back to the Crone Codes. I’m Joan Advent the resident, crone, the creator and the host. And I am deeply honored and delighted to invite Alexandra Smith to be with us today. Welcome, Alexandra.

Alexandra: Thank you for having me. I feel so honored to, I’m not a crone yet, but I get to sit in your corner for today.

Joan: Yes.

Well, the way I see it, we really gather the codes of crone hood throughout the whole arc of our journey, and there are many profound codes that you do carry and embody already, which is why I wanted to invite you to be with us today. Yeah. And before I share, the wisdom, the beauty, the, the essence of Alexandra through her bio, I just.

I just want to say, dear listener, that, I’ve spent the day preparing for this interview and I know that this will be a powerful and profound experience. And my intent is to, um, be here fully and with an open and undefended heart. And I invite you, dear listener, to do the same. So I wanna share as we do, the essence of who Alexandra is through her bio, and wanna invite you to just receive as you listen, the codes of what she’s bringing and, who she is.

So I invite you to close your eyes. And to just let these words wash over you. Let these truths wash over you.

So Alexandra Smith is a women’s mentor and she specializes in faith building and spiritual identity. She guides women to remember who they are as daughters of God, while awakening their God-given missions into thriving movements in the world.

With over 10 years of experience, Alexandra has supported thousands of women in coming home to God and rediscovering who they are, and what they are called to do. She currently leads the Living Scroll School, which is a faith centered community that supports over 200 women in deepening in their relationship with God and walking boldly in their purpose.

Welcome.

Alexandra: Thank you. It sounds so special to hear that read back.

Joan: Yes. Well, I think it’s really important that we have those moments where reflections are offered. The, the essence of who we are, and in particular, like how far we have come. And I, I know just knowing some of your story how far you have traveled.

Alexandra: Thank you.

Joan: To be living this mission at this time. Yeah. So this episode is coming out just a few days after Easter, and it’s not quite that time yet. We’re, uh, we’re in the season leading up to that. But it felt particularly important to have you come and join us at this time, in part because of the power of your testimony, the power of your story, and in particular your story, with your son, Aksel. Aksel James.

And so I really wanna just invite you to just dive in to whatever extent you want to start. Share your story with us.

Alexandra: Yeah, yeah. Thank you. It’s, I’m a big advocate for our stories being used by God, that there’s no coincidence, there’s no mistake that we walk through the fires that we walk through.

And my whole mission is, is really centered around my testimony because if I could be a living example of God’s great work, then I’ve, I’ve done enough. And a prayer that I hold close to my heart is God, if I can only see your feet. Then I’ve seen everything that I need to see.

Mm-hmm.

And, and my story is really a testament to that.

In 2023, my son passed away at six and a half months old just before he turned seven months. And he sustained a brain injury at birth when he was born. That was a terminal diagnosis and led me to where I am today.

And so where I wanna start with my testimony is in the hospital with my son. At that point in time in my life, I wanna preface that God was not ministering to me the way He is today. I didn’t have that relationship. I, I thought I had a pretty solid relationship with God. But then when you’re put into the pit, you get tested and, and that was a really big ultimate test for me. And so to preface that God was not someone I called on at that point in time in my life.

But I found myself in this room. It was three days after my son Aksel was born. We were rushed to the hospital, transferred over the ocean by helicopter, and landed at this brutal pit, uh, in, in Surrey, BC. And the next three days were just a blur. But I found myself in this room filled with 20 doctors, and I was just by myself because my fiance at the time was just trying to get over to the mainland because you have to book a ferry, all these things. So I was in the pit by myself without my son because he was down the hallway that I couldn’t be with him just yet. And these doctors sat me down and they told me the diagnosis.

And it was 20 doctors just telling me all these things of he’ll. One, he has terminal diagnosis, so we don’t know how long he’s gonna live, but he’s never going to roll. He’s never gonna crawl, he’s never gonna be able to feed on his own. He’s gonna have respiratory problems. He’s gonna have, um, quadriplegic, cerebral palsy.

So essentially no control over his hands or legs. He has trunk abnormalities, meaning he can’t hold himself up properly. All these things. And then they showed me the pictures of the MRI that they did, that showed that every part of his brain was damaged. And then I just remember them saying, can you repeat back what we just told you?

And I tried everything in my power to try to put things together, and all of a sudden the Holy Spirit descended over me and the only words that I could say was, you don’t know what my God can do. And these doctors were just dumbfounded. They looked at me like I was a lunatic. And they essentially said, okay, you know, like you can leave now if you’re not gonna take this seriously we can’t do much about it.

Which then proceeded into a CPS case of if I’m a unfit mother, due to my faith. I found myself in the pit, I wasn’t just fighting for my son’s life. And when I say fighting, I mean it. I had to yell at doctors that were trying to take him off life support. I had to fight nurses. I was by myself a lot of the time.

And not only that, but I then had to fight for the custody of my child where they were trying to prove that I was not fit to care for him. Those days, now looking back on it, it was honestly one of the greatest gifts my son could have given me because I found God in that moment and I didn’t know who He was.

I, I had no idea any of these, these forces that I thought were God or I thought could be my Creator, but just weren’t. And it wasn’t until I was put into that hellscape, into that pit that I became a daughter again.

And what was so beautiful is after we left the hospital and we were brought to a hospice, we left the hospice, we got home Aksel started doing all these things that the doctors said he would never do. And it was, it was just a testimony to what I said in that room of, you have no idea what my God can do. And in the end, he was having a very hard time. It was very hard for everyone. And, and he did leave this earth with a huge impact.

Mm-hmm. And then started the second pit that I was put into. Mm-hmm. And if, and I don’t want anyone to imagine this, but if for a moment, if you can imagine how your child is, your everything, and, and I wasn’t just a mother. I was a 24 7 nurse. I was 24 7, doctor. 24 7 caretaker. 24 7 wife. 24 7 mother. I had to be so much more than just a mom, which that’s all I wanted to be.

But then when all that ends in a day. And it’s all taken away from you. Who am I? Because everything that I thought I was, was gone. Hence the second pit of hell that I had to walk through. And this is why I do identity work today. Mm-hmm. Of who are you? Everything stripped away just as a daughter of God.

And in my grief, I had to remember that it was the first pit of the hospital and the hospice and fighting CPS that I discovered the power and the authority that God truly has over all of us. In the most glorious way. It’s not in an imprisonment way. And then the second pit was now this testimony of who I am as a daughter and, and discovering that and how I managed to get through that was pouring all the love that I wanted to pour into my son, into my work, into my clients, into my offerings, and, and so it, it was a command from God. It was, my son passed away in November, 2023, and it was June of 2024. I went back to work. How many months is that? Six or something?

It, it was not planned and it was not forced in any way, but it was a call from God that if you don’t do something with this testimony, if you, if you don’t share this story of how you got out of these pits, your son died for nothing, then. It was just this remembrance of our stories hold so much more power than what we could ever imagine.

And that’s where my work restarted at. Yeah.

Joan: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. So that’s just been a little over two years ago.

Alexandra: Yeah. Aksel would be three in May.

Joan: Wow.

Yeah.

And I’m assuming that when you were pregnant, you were having a normal pregnancy and you were just anticipating being a mom. Like there were no red flags or no concerns, or,

Alexandra: Yeah, it was an easy pregnancy. No red flags, no concerns. Everything was great. It was the final minutes of labor that threw us into that pit. Yeah.

Joan: Wow. You are not the first mother that I have sat with who has lost a child, and I just wanna acknowledge that. Mm-hmm. Because, um not, not everyone faces that, but in the, in the journey to Crone Hood, some of us do. I mean, some of us face the journey of motherhood and some of us face the journey of losing a child.

Yeah.

And to use that experience and, or I don’t even know if that’s the right word. It’s, um, to honor that experience and not have it be in vain or not have it be a beginning of the end, you know, to use it as we’ll, say ultimately like a resurrection moment, um, is a very powerful code.

And it, you know, it is a code that you fought for that you stepped into, I, I know that God, or I understand that God came to you and began to work through you, but it, but it was you also putting in like an equal measure, or to whatever extent we can do equal measure of showing up and putting one foot in front of the other or being, you know, being willing or saying yes to what was being asked of you.

Alexandra: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And, do you know the statistic for child loss?

Joan: No.

Alexandra: It’s so one in four women will either experience a miscarriage, an infant loss, or a child loss in their life. That’s one in four. That means we place four women in a room. One, one of them is gonna have a story regarding the, the loss of a child, whether it was in womb, on earth, in adulthood.

Yes.

And it’s, it’s such a taboo topic that a lot of people don’t wanna talk about, but when it’s one in four, we need to bring conversation to it. And not only that, but if I’m, if I’m the one in the four, I need to be able to represent my testimony. I was raised by parents that they said, if you do anything, make sure it’s purposeful and that was my son. My son was my whole purpose. And so when that purpose changed, and I think a lot of women, whether you’ve lost a child or, or a loved one of any kind, when you lose that person, you’re all of a sudden living for them as well. And, and so I thought, well, if my son can’t live, I gotta live for him and I’m not going to live a mediocre, quiet life.

You know, you get to know their personality. So well, just in six and a half months, like he was the goofiest, silliest, like such a humor. But he was also the one that if we were out on a walk or, or walking through the market or anything, like he was stopping people dead in their tracks. Like he was such a magnet. Like he was center stage all the time. Every like hospital visit or appointment, like the whole room would light up. And, and he’s going through the hardest time of his life and he’s giggling and, and he’s smiling. Like he’s just the goofiest little guy that I’ve ever met. And so when he left this earth, I was like, okay, I need to, I need to be that, I need to, I need to light up the rooms.

I, I need to bring purpose and passion and, and presence to these spaces because he can’t do that anymore. I need to do it for him.

Mm-hmm.

And our testimonies really do that in our missions.

Mm-hmm.

When, when we step into that identity of what it means to be a daughter, you are that, that presence that moves those mountains for people.

Joan: Hmm.

Yeah. So that is, it’s quite an invitation to, to step into that essence of daughter.

Alexandra: Mm-hmm. Absolutely.

Joan: And it, it seems that, , it has taken you deeper and deeper and deeper into what I would, I use the word devotion, but to your devotion. Uh, to your, just your, yes to being a presence and a, a force

mm-hmm.

For that.

Thank you. Yes.

Yeah. Thank you.

And as I understand it, because I have heard, parts of your story previously that, that in many ways you just described the ways that your son was, that was a presence, was a force in, in body when he was here. But that, as I understand it, you also had a sense of connection and just sense of that even bigger essence of who he was once he died.

Is is that true?

Alexandra: Yeah. Yeah. It’s so, I, I was trained to know the biology of children. I, I’ve worked with children for years and

Mm-hmm

knowing the spiritual biology was something so important, so. In my motherhood, I understood that my son would share a nervous system with me for the first seven years of his life.

Mm-hmm.

And I think any mom who’s ever lost a child, no matter what stage, when that child dies and leaves this earth, you go there to, and the best way I can describe this, and I think a lot of people shy away from the mysticism of death, but the best way I describe this is I have one foot in heaven or one piece of my heart in heaven at all times.

And one foot or one piece of my heart on earth and the, the windows open. And I don’t know how to describe that better spiritually, but. It’s, it doesn’t take much for me to just be where my son is. To be here. And, and it feels like you’re just walking in between worlds for a very long time. And it’s taken a very long time for me to remember that I’m here on Earth, I’m not in heaven.

I don’t wanna be in heaven just yet. God willing.

Mm-hmm.

Um, but to be sharing a nervous system and to be sharing that spiritual connection with your child who’s no longer here, you really do have that open psyche. You have that open doorway into those heavenly realms that, for me, I didn’t have. Really before my son, I was definitely gifted in different ways.

Like my mom says, you don’t just lick it off a rock. We are gifted in many ways, but it was my son who really initiated me into the true like, gifts of God’s Holy Spirit. And it, it was just like having a part of me in heaven at all times.

Joan: Hmm. And can you tell us what those gifts of the Holy Spirit are, as your experience of them?

Alexandra: Yeah, absolutely.

I feel like we need to start at the night my son passed. This might be edgy for a few people, but I always believed in Jesus. I saw Jesus as a man who embodied the Christ.

Mm-hmm.

So Christ and Jesus were separate in my mind for a really long time.

Hmm.

And when I look back to my son’s death, the very first thing that I saw when he passed was Jesus holding him.

And the only command that I heard in that was, you won’t be able to get through this alone. I need you to lean on me. And it was just this call from the pit of, I need you to follow me. And it was, and then I ran away from that for a year. I’m not gonna pretend, it just like radically changed my life and everything was different.

I ran away from that call. I taught and shared about God separate from Christ. I taught and shared about God separate from Jesus. And then it got to a point where I just couldn’t do that anymore because I was denying what my son showed me through his death. Was that their one? They’re Trinity, they’re not separate.

And it was in that discovery of honoring that vision of what I saw. And what’s so interesting is in the moment of us discovering that Aksel had left, ‘cause it was like in the middle of the night, I just woke up to do his like 3:00 AM or 2:00 AM feed. Um, and he was gone. And the very first thing that my fiancé and I did was we just yelled and screamed to Jesus.

Just this wave just comes over you, that when you’re in the pit, your identity knows who to call on. And that was where we found ourself was in the pit of despair, of hell, of death, of grief, depression, PTSD. All those things. And somehow spirit knew who to call on.

Hmm.

And it was, well then the sanctification process begins when you’re called by God.

You just get thrown into the sanctification process. And this is where our gifts come to life. And the best way I could describe, we all have so many different gifts that the Holy Spirit gives us. And, and when I say Holy Spirit, I mean the connection of our spirit to God’s spirit is through the Holy Spirit.

So it’s, it’s an unending connection. It’s not something outside of you that you need to do X, Y, Z to possess. It is this unending, undying. Unrelenting connection, our spirit to God’s spirit. And the Holy Spirit is where God streams our gifts into us. Because they’re gifts, they’re not birthrights.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

And I teach a lot about birth rights, but these are gifts. And anything with a gift, you can return it, you can denounce it, you can, if you’re not using it well, when we think of like a child, you know, they’re hitting their sibling with the gift that you just gave them, you’re gonna take it away.

You’re not gonna let them continue to misuse their gift. That’s like our gifts. And so God really streams our gifts into our spirit through the Holy Spirit. And for me, the way that looks like is, is using my voice of sharing my testimony. Sharing Aksel’s story. ‘Cause he’s not here to do that himself. Uh, writing.

Some people would call that like content creation or email marketing. But for me it’s the gifts of the Holy Spirit that I get to write, I get to share, I get to teach, I get to talk, I get to pray. So the gift of the voice is a really big part of what I’ve received from God in this. And, and the gifts of a platform.

We all, you can look at all your different gifts, but all through this, this grief journey, God keeps giving me platforms to speak on. Like you inviting me to this podcast that is a gift from God that you’re allowing me to have this platform to share. Um, and, and my son being like the celebrity. My one friend, my one friend calls him the celebrity ‘cause I guess the way, I guess the way that she sees like him was that he’s now, he’s like famous. That just like everyone knows about him. And the story behind that is I was walking in a farmer’s market and this lady came up to me, she was like, oh my gosh, are you Aksel’s mom? And, and we all start kind of giggling because of course my son is like known like, I don’t know who this woman is, but she she heard my son’s story through someone else who knew my son, all these things.

So we call him the little celebrity. And he’s had articles written in the biggest papers around the world, like The Guardian on him there. There’s this gift of platform is something that I can’t deny is that God will deliver us the stages to speak on.

Um, and yeah, those are just my main gifts right now, the way that I can describe moving through grief and, and allowing God’s gifts to bless our life.

Joan: Hmm. So if you could speak to the women who may be listening who have lost a child, whether recently, or, or in the long distance past, that are still feeling kind of stuck partly in that pit, uh, because we know sometimes that can happen. Is there anything in particular that, that you would share?

Alexandra: Yeah, it’s, well, my biggest thing is, I kind of already mentioned it a little bit, but it’s, it’s, don’t let them die in vain.

It, it’s, and I wanna say that with love, because it’s so much easier to stay in the pit. I wanna honor that it’s easier to let the grief consume you. It’s easier to let the depression happen. It’s easier to let the PTSD control your life and your movements and what you do every day. It’s easier to live in fear. But there’s this conviction that comes when you remember the one in four that out of four women, God chose you to be the one to bear this.

And it’s not out of punishment. It’s not out of you did something wrong and you deserve to bear this. It’s out of reverence. And I used to hate this saying so much. My mom used to say it all the time, is God will only give you what you can handle. I used to hate it because I was like, God gave me a really awful deck of cards, You know. That I don’t love it. But my son taught me very quickly that this isn’t out of punishment. You’re not, you’re not someone who deserves to bear this.

Mm-hmm.

But you’ve been chosen to bear this.

Hmm.

And I would really just encourage anyone moving through loss of any kind to bear it with honor, because God wants to do something in your life through that grief.

I don’t know what it is. And sometimes we don’t know what it is for decades, and then we, we enter the mission, the assignment. But to wear it with honor because out of the four women, you were the chosen one. And it’s not an egoic thing because we, anyone would agree with me. We don’t want to be the chosen one.

No.

But we’re with that, we’re invited to now step into something greater. And the other piece of advice I would also give is, is find a power verse in your pit to really find a prayer, a piece of scripture. For me, it’s scripture. But to really find a, something that roots you in that power.

Joan: Yes.

And what’s also coming to mind that that is, brilliant and helpful and to the three of the four

Mm-hmm.

You are embodying our worst fear.

Absolutely.

And so what do you say to the three in terms of

Yeah.

how to be with a beloved sister who might be in grief or loss. You know, how, how, how, ‘cause this it is, it’s like the, the, there is no worse loss.

Alexandra: Yeah. Yeah, it’s people fear, people fear death in general.

Mm-hmm.

And, and with that, when you’re called to witness a mother in grief, you’re also being given an assignment that is very great. And I’ve lived through what it felt like for many people to abandon me in that, because people with death, the, the fear underneath death is, is people fear God.

Hmm

Because when you, when you are a mother who has lost their whole life due to child loss, you are also, it says that God is closest to the brokenhearted.

And Christ says this all the time, is I’m closest to the brokenhearted. You, you become this vessel that is now closest to God that is triggering for so many people. That is upsetting. That is a mirror that we don’t wanna look in. That is a reflection that we don’t wanna have. All these things. So I understand with pure compassion why people choose to leave.

It’s the easier route. And, and I’ve done it, even post grief. I found myself leaning out of spaces that God was calling me into regarding that one in four. And they’re such humbling moments because just like the one is the chosen one, the three are equally chosen and loved. And I wish I could interview my best friend right now on how she, on how she did it.

‘cause I don’t know how she did it. I don’t know how she supported me so well other than just leaning on God and knowing that it is devotion again. So the three you are being called to devote, to supporting mothers, to supporting women, to supporting God’s plan. And one of the questions I get all the time, well what, what does that look like?

And I can’t tell you exactly what it looks like, but. The everyday just becomes so hard and, and to know. I think especially, I think a lot of women who listen here are pretty gifted and spiritual in many ways. So we think of like the big things of, well, like how can I do a grand gesture? How can I do something big for these women?

How can I be in the highest embodiment of devotion in this grief? God builds movements from subtleties and, and small assignments. So when it comes to devotion, whether you’re the one, whether you’re the three, it’s the everyday devotion that counts the most. That’s what adds to the incredible long-term success of a mother surviving it or a mother building a platform on it, or a mother.

Uh, I see. I connect with loss moms all around the world. There’s mothers changing the whole medical system through their grief.

Mm-hmm.

There’s women doing powerful, life changing, world altering things through their grief. And behind that one are the three supporting them to get there. But it’s the every day of cook her meals, bring her flowers, change her sheets, do her laundry.

I remember my sister flew in and she spent a whole week just cleaning my house and just doing everything she possibly could that I didn’t have energy for. I had friends that were dropping off like full cakes of just like, you need a cake right now. Eat it. All these things.

And then when I amount my mission success today of what it means to be successful in my grief all I can see is all those women that were folding my laundry, cleaning my toilets, bringing me cakes, praying over me, writing cards, making art, all the things that really counted. Anytime I look back to those three, I just think of the everyday devotion that we, we usually don’t lean into ‘cause we think it’s not enough.

And I wanna say it is enough. Uh, it’s actually what you will remember the most.

Joan: Thank you. And I’m, I’m pulled in two directions because I, I do wanna talk with you about, Jesus and his mother, his mother Mary. But before we get into that, I, I am inclined to just ask. Just based on your experience and having a partner, you’re, you were walking through that with I, I know that that can be the end of a lot of partnerships and relationships, the loss of a child.

So is there anything that you wanna name regarding the partners of the chosen ones? ‘cause they have been chosen in their own way.

Alexandra: Absolutely. I, yeah, I, I always cry in reverence to the men that have to go through this because it’s so different from what the women go through as like the protector and the provider.

And the biggest thing that changed my life was, my best friend told me one day, you are gonna want to pour everything into Aksel God’s asking you to pour everything into your man. And when it comes to love in loss, it really is a choice. Because it’s hard and you, you really do need to make more effort in that devotion ‘cause you’re not gonna wanna do it. Or you’re gonna wanna be mad at each other or you’re, you know, you’re gonna wanna not talk about things.

People also grieve so differently. The way I grieve is very different to the way that my partner grieves and, in, in his fatherhood after loss. But I always share regarding union, it’s such, it’s a choice to love someone.

Mm-hmm.

And, and that choice is a devotional act in itself. And, and God says when, when you get married to become one.

So. That one, that one flesh and that one spirit. His grief is yours, his pain is yours. His hurts are yours. His habits that you might not agree with in, in his grief, they’re yours as well. And to, to not run from that ‘cause I think that’s a really easy thing to run from, but to lean into it.

Joan: Hmm. Yeah. Thank you.

So, as I said, in part when I reached out to you, just the inspiration that you were meant, your episode was meant to come out at this time of Easter. And just knowing what I know of Aksel’s story and your story and having a connection to Mother Mary and her being the one in four. just whether, just hearing your reflections about that, welcoming you to share your reflections or if that has felt like a source of support for you or anything you wanna share.

Alexandra: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I’m really excited for this Easter ‘cause it will be my first Easter that I’ve been baptized in Christ.

Mm-hmm.

So that is just all new territory for me. But what I wanna speak on this with, with Jesus and Mother Mary is there, there is always someone who comes before us. So before we walk through everything, before you walk through trial loss, before you walk through marriage, there’s always someone who has walked before you in that.

And I call them forerunners.

Mm-hmm.

So there’s someone who has prepared the way already. And when we look to the life of Jesus, John the Baptist, prepared the way for his ministry

Mm-hmm.

by baptizing Jesus. That was like the jumpstart of his ministry and, and his public ministry and his work on earth.

And then when we look to Mother Mary, she’s the forerunner of child loss because I can’t even imagine, what it would be like to love someone for 33 years and lose them. I wanna honor that’s different than loving someone for seven months and losing them. They’re. Not only that, but the weight of what she must have felt being the mother to the son of God.

Like that’s not it. Not just a casual task, but there’s something that is so devotional in the story of Mother Mary and Mary Magdalene.

Mm-hmm.

Regarding Jesus’ death, resurrection, and ascension is they did not leave his side. They devoted themselves, and this is how Mary Magdalene specifically became the first apostle is all the men.

They left when Jesus died. They were like, okay, so he wasn’t the son of God, like he was just lying. Oh, like he, he was a phony. They left. They go on their merry way. They’re probably grieving and very upset. But the women did not leave his side at all. And, and Mary Magdalene became the first apostle for that, her obedience.

And so when we talk about Mother, Mary, and Jesus and Easter, there is this thread of obedience in our devotion that is unmatched. It’s Mother Mary’s ability to be obedient to God. Like when you think about when Jesus was conceived, this was a no-no, she wasn’t married yet, like they were spitting on their names, but, and it, it was also a free willed choice of God’s.

God said, this is what I’m gonna do. Your thoughts?

She, she said yes, and she praises God for what he wants to do for her. And her yes, we were talking about like our yeses. It was Mother Mary’s obedience in her yes that brought God in the flesh to this earth to change us from where we were in this awful descension of, I don’t even wanna name the ungodly things that we were doing at that time. But we were devoting ourselves to false deities and false gods and false prophets.

And we were doing things that you see coming to light today was exactly where we were 2000, over 2000 years ago. So, but Mother Mary’s Yes, was the perfect opportunity for God to work in her, to bring us from a descension to an ascension again.

Joan: Right. On behalf of all of humanity.

Alexandra: Absolutely. Yeah.

Joan: Yeah. So that’s quite a, a big yes.

And I was struck by, you describing Mary Magdalene and Mother Mary being there with the body, and I’m remembering that they were, you know, they were tending the body. They were anointing the body. And I, I think that there is something in particular about us as women and as mothers.

Mm-hmm.

Where, because we in many ways are the primary caregivers for the bodies

Yeah.

Of our children in those formative years. And there’s something, that feels very precious and meaningful about that, that they chose to do that. That we as women absolutely choose to do that are tasked with that, the blessing of that.

Alexandra: Yeah, there’s, there’s something so special about being a woman because our devotion is so different to men that it’s like, we are not the same.

I am, I am against all movements that try to make us the same as men. We are not. And, and with that, what’s so beautiful is God could have come in any form. God could have just snapped fingers and appeared for the whole world to then be instructed.

Mm-hmm.

But God chose to arrive and change the world through a womb because of her obedience and devotion.

And that is something that I find we, we brush over a lot of the times. Is God could have done anything to change this world from a descension to ascension, but chose to utilize a womb of all things to deliver that to this earth. And not only that, but chose the women to care for the body to be the first witnesses of the resurrection. And, and to become the first apostle, like the very first apostle was a woman like there.

I believe that men and women, we are elevated in different ways. And, and one of the ways that we are elevated as women is through our devotion and, and our obedience. It is a lot easier for women to obey God than it is for men. Men are a bit typically stubborn and hardheaded. Like, I don’t want another man ruling over me, whatever it is. They get territorial.

Joan: You’re not the boss of me.

Alexandra: Yeah. And of course, I mean, I’ve been like that as a woman as well, but, there’s this beautiful nature that we have in our devotion through our obedience.

Joan: Mm-hmm. So there’s so much more I would love to unpack with you. Yeah. And I just related to the ways that we’re wired, I know I, I wanna give you the opportunity to share about the work you do and

Just, it’s, this seems like the natural segue of your speaking about the ways that we’re wired as women and the gifts that we bring and when we are on a, a God led mission, what that can look like. So would you like to share about your school and your programs?

Alexandra: I would love that. Yeah. I, I am here to serve the women with those missions on fire.

We all have them. And, and speaking about our obedience and our devotion, God has bestowed assignments on us that are gonna change this world. Like the mothers I see changing the medical field, changing, um, the way that we tend to miscarriages, the way that we tend to death, and then becoming moms or becoming wives, building schools, writing books.

I get to see it all happen, which is a great part of my service is to see these women in those fields doing this assignment of God. But the one thing that is so important is that we’re not meant to walk the assignments alone. We’re not meant to try to make it all happen ourselves. And one of the biggest questions we have as women is, who am I and what am I here to do?

Hmm.

Those are the two biggest questions that we have. And those questions change every chapter of your life.

Mm-hmm.

That question, that answer to that question is different in your twenties than it is your forties. In your forties as it is your sixties. And this is what the Living Scroll school is. It’s to tend and hold and devote to these women of being successful in your mission.

But in order to be successful in our missions, we have to remember who gave us that mission in the first place, and it was our Creator. So, The school, the Living Scroll School, we partner with God in everything that we do. And there’s women from all different backgrounds and faith and teachings that come here because we remember that at the end of the day, the only thing that matters is when we die, are we gonna hear the words, “my good and faithful servant”? Or are we gonna hear the words, “turn from me for I do not know you”? And death, like losing my son that put everything in perspective.

And something I just wanna share for women as I speak about these offerings too, is that God didn’t say my good and faithful, CEO or my good and faithful mother, or my good and faithful astronaut, God says, my good and faithful servant, period.

The way that we are called to serve is in so many different capacities. You may be called to serve in marriage. You may be called to serve in children. You may be called to serve in spiritual based offerings. You may be called to serve as a world renowned chef or a bestselling author. But this school is here to build that relationship with your creator, to partner with your creator in your mission, and then to bring you along those thresholds with God at the center so that you can see the success that God has written in your mission.

And we do that through two different avenues, we have the membership at the school and there’s different tiers in the membership. We have a free membership that I’d love to invite all the women into. $0. We, we come together monthly and, and we kind of sprinkle in some webinars here and there. But there’s different tiers in the membership that just support the level, of support that you need. And then the other avenue is through my signature offer called Sight, which is a 17 week intimate journey. No more than 25 to 30 women where we walk through the thresholds that God has for us in our missions together, where we remember who we are as a daughter of God, where we remember how to pray. We remember how to purify our vessel. We, we learn how to heal the access points or the hurts, the hangups, the habits that are keeping us from that success and, and all the things in between. Um, and there’s, yeah, there’s just a lot of miracles that happen in that space that I can’t, I can’t even put words to. But it is, it’s an intimate path with God.

Joan: Hmm And you have a very generous offer for our listeners, a discounted offer for Sight. So all of those pieces I’ll put into the show notes as well as your social media, because you are, you’re active on Instagram.

Alexandra: Yes. Yeah. You can find that you on Instagram. Instagram mostly.

And then the free membership is, is where I’m able to do all the unfiltered videos, content, and things that the Metaverse doesn’t love.

Joan: Yeah. So to close I heard you say that the school, the Living Scroll School and Sight are not exclusive to women who are perhaps grounded in Christianity or grounded in a scriptural path. And I know sometimes because there have been wounds related to different words being used, so I want to give you the chance to reiterate or clarify that

Alexandra: I would love that.

Joan: all paths to God are welcome.

Alexandra: Yes, absolutely.

I always say as soon as I say Jesus, I’m usually automatically misrepresented in so many ways by the things that fallible humans have done in that name.

Yes.

And, and yeah, our school, our like faith disclaimer is that we are centered on God through Christ, but that doesn’t take away if you have any different views, beliefs, and versions. At the end of the day, we all go to, we all have to die. We all have to, we all have to go to the final destination. And we are all daughters of the most high. And, and this is our school. There’s so many different people that, that have different faith and belief and views, but they understand that I’m a daughter of God and in order to find the success that I have, that God has placed on my heart to find, I need to partner.

I, I need to, to place him at the center. So we welcome all faith, all background, all the things. The only, the only prerequisite is that this whole school is it’s for women only.

Yes.

Yeah. So you’re a woman. That’s your check.

Joan: Yeah. So one of the things that I have always appreciated about you, Alexandra, is the resonance and the power of your prayer.

Yeah. Thank you.

So I wanted to offer you, if you’re willing

Yeah.

An opportunity, a space to just share a prayer for our listeners.

Alexandra: I would love that. Yeah. Yeah. So if you’re able to, we can gently close the eyes, just taking a few breaths into the belly.

God, I pray. May you bestow a hedge of holy fire around every single listener, around every single woman that tunes into this episode today. That you can just hold her in your loving arms and your loving embrace that this hedge of holy fire is your protector. That anything that wants to get to these women have to go through you first God.

And in that God, I just pray that may you reveal yourself to these women. God may you show who you are as their Creator. And through that, I also pray, God, may you deliver them the gifts of your Holy Spirit to deliver them, the voice, the platform, the abilities, the masteries. Everything that you have awaiting them, God, may you bring those, bring them through these thresholds that you are calling them upon.

And God, I just pray that each and every woman today can know that they are never forgotten nor forsaken, that even if they walked through the pit of despair, grief, addiction, divorce, infidelity, et cetera, whatever pit you’ve placed us in, God, I pray that you deliver each woman the strength, the obedience, the devotion, to know that there is far more left in life than just sitting in that pit that you can help each and every one of these women out of whatever pit they find themselves in. That God, I just pray that you can descend your hand to their hand and lift them up.

Lift them out that you can minister to them, God that speak to their heart. Let yourself be known to each and every woman here, that you God, are the ultimate sovereign authority that you, God, are our protector, our healer, our provider, our nurturer, that you God, hold such paternal and maternal instincts, and that we can all today begin to receive those gifts, those blessings, those anointings, and through that God may you deliver us our assignments and so we pray in Jesus’ name. Amen.

Joan: Amen. Okay, thank you. And thank you for being here with us today and sharing generously your testimony.

Yeah, thank you.

Your story.

Alexandra: Oh, that’s such a, it’s such a gift and, and it felt important that your podcast gets to be the first to hold that. So I really, really appreciate that.

Joan: Hmm. Thank you. I didn’t realize that. It’s my honor. Yeah.

So I also wanna thank you, our dear listeners for joining us today. So delighted to have you, and I wanna offer you the reminder. Whether you are making ripples in your life or big ass waves, that you are love and you are loved.

Mm-hmm.

Until next time.

Sharing excerpts of scientist, Masaru Emoto’s foundational research on how words and intentions influence water’s crystalline structure she explores the concepts of water as an imprintable, memory keeper, healing agent and reflection of the waters within us.

She highlights researcher Veda Austin’s crystallography experiments using her “Collective Molecular Photography” freezing technique, to explore the consciousness of water and its ability to express create recurring “hydroglyphs,” and express plant “potential”.

Joan then turns to practical hydration, health and the importance of consuming structured water as described by Dana Cohen, MD in her 2021 book, Quench.

She closes with reflections on Lourdes, the healing property of water and a prayerful blessing for listeners’ inner waters.

00:52 Bahamas Water Memory

03:16 Water Code Theme

04:43 Masaru Emoto Water Imprints

09:01 Veda Austin & Hydroglyphs

14:11 Ocean Depths and immersed in Blue

20:05 Hydration and Structured Water

26:21 Springs, Lourdes, Healings

30:22 Blessing and Closing

Water Resources Mentioned in this Episode

The Hidden Messages of Water by Masaru Emoto

The Living Language of Water by Veda Austin

Quench: Beat Fatigue, Drop Weight, and Heal your Body Through the New Science of Optimum Hydration by Dana Cohen, MD and Gina Bria

Down to Earth with Zac Efron Season 1 Episode 2

Additional Resources:

Find A Spring Near You

Veda Austin

Transcript

Welcome to the Crone Codes.

I am your host, the Creator and resident crone, Joan Advent, and I don’t know about you, but today I could use a little lightning up, a little lightness of being.

So I just wanna, I wanna circle back to a memory from a few years ago when I was in The Bahamas. I had created a dolphin retreat and it was a warm, sunny morning and I was at the beach with a few of the women who were on the retreat and we were in the water.

And the thing about the Bahamian waters is oh, they are so crystalline blue, and white powdery sand, and the clarity and the color of the water is spectacular. And I remember lying back and it was still, it’s still early in the day and there is just this iridescent quality to the water.

It’s got shimmery gold and silver and pinkish hues along with the blue. And I’m just lying back, letting this warm salt water hold me and buoy me up.

Perhaps you can even feel the sensation. As I describe the memory. The sun was beaming down. Mm, the air was fresh. There was a jubilant energy between us as we were there gathered together. Just remembering that play, like the capacity to play, just feeling that young one within that just loves being in the water, being on the water’s edge, just all the things about water.

And so today we’re gonna talk about the crone code that is the water code. We are gonna touch on it in many different ways. So, I’m so glad you’re here with me today. And I’m so delighted to share one of my favorite things with you. Which as you approach the crone years, and certainly I invite you to do so before then.

One of the gifts is that we get to reclaim the joy, reclaim the, uh, we’ll say innocence of those things that light us up, as quirky as they may be, as odd as they may be. We get to own it. We get to share it with others. I don’t know about you, but one of my favorite things is sharing really cool stuff. And the cool thing I want to share with you today is some of the mysteries and the magic of water.

Hmm.

So you may or you may not be familiar with the work of Dr. Emoto and his research from the nineties. Dr. Emoto was a Japanese researcher who began to explore water through a type of crystallography, and he was looking at the influence that words have on water. And he discovered that when water is placed in a vessel with, we’ll say, a positive or uplifting word.

The crystals that are created are these beautiful structures, and in contrast, if a word that is heavier or we’ll say, uh, just discordant like a word, like hate or something like that, that the forms that the water crystals make are, they’re malformed, they are not, they’re not balanced.

They’re not pure. They, they are distorted. And part of what we’ve learned coming out of Dr. Emoto’s research. Is that water is imprintable, that we can imprint the waters we consume, the waters that we see in the, the rivers, the lakes, the waterfalls, the ocean that we can express our intentions, our words, our prayers, we certainly all know about holy water.

I grew up in a tradition where water was blessed and we would bless ourselves with that holy water when we attended church. And the truth is, is that water we have discovered is actually that water is a memory keeper. That everything that water touches is imprinted in the water. So whether it’s the stones that the stream is bubbling over, or the sunlight or the thunderstorm that those experiences are imprinted in the water.

And similarly words, prayers, intentions are imprinted in water as well. And that goes for the waters within us because we are ultimately a body of water. We are a watershed, as they say. And a big piece of Dr. Emoto’s work was how to interact with our own waters. So whether it was being conscious of the words that we say to ourselves, knowing that the waters within within us will be imprinted or specifically imprinting, as I said, whether through written words or spoken words, blessings over the waters that we consume and ingesting our prayers, our intentions, certain frequencies such as love or gratitude or empowerment through the waters that we drink.

And fast forward to modern day and there’s new research happening. There is an incredible researcher, a woman named Veda Austin, who has written a book, it’s The Living Language of Water. And there are a couple of things that she has discovered in her research. She also explores crystallography, she puts an influence into a Petri dish with a small amount of water in it, and then freezes it in her freezer for a few minutes and then brings it out, photographs it, and has come to discover a couple of things through that.

She has been at the leading edge of discussing the consciousness of water in a couple of ways. One, she describes that water can read potential and how she has demonstrated that is using her unique freezing technique. Which is something we can all learn and experiment with. I have done some of that myself.

It’s quite fun.

But what she has discovered is if she takes a seed, for example, the seed of a sunflower, and she places it into the water for 30 seconds and then removes it, puts the water into the freezer. What the water has, expressed through the ice, through the crystallography is the image of a sunflower blossom.

She also has done this with flax seeds and discovered the images of flax plants, flax flowers, so that’s just one piece. But her research has begun to uncover that there are certain symbols or images that water appears to be using to communicate, and she calls these hydro glyphs. And they are particular symbols or images that have been replicated 50 times. So the same symbol has appeared 50 different times in order for her to confirm that water is indeed using that symbol as a means [00:12:00] of expression. So if you’re, if you’re interested in this kind of thing, I strongly encourage you to follow her on Instagram, she may also be on Facebook, and she has a documentary coming out soon.

But so many amazing and fascinating things that this water that is a substance we take for granted, which it truly is like the building block of life. Like we couldn’t, we couldn’t exist. We wouldn’t be here on the planet, were it not for water. I, I just wanna invite you to remember, or to discover that it is this sacred substance.

It is this sacred substance that actually has consciousness, that holds consciousness. And as I said, for me, that gives me hope. There’s so many intense things going on these days in the world, but remembering, remembering the presence of the natural world and the consciousness it holds. In particular this element of water for me, it just gives me hope.

It gives me hope that that we can come back to the essential nature of who we are just by coming back to the simplicity, To the beauty, to the magic of this powerful element. I think about being, I remember being in Iceland and watching the waterfall and the way that it just keeps flowing and flowing and flowing.

I remember floating in the vastness of the blue of the Caribbean, both on my recent dolphin trip as well as as a scuba diver. And on one particular day, a diving along a wall off the coast of the Cayman Islands. And descending down the side of the wall and looking at all the, the coral and the fans and these little cracks and crevices where these creatures were hiding out. These lobster and little shrimp and tropical fish, and then the bigger fish is just so colorful and beautiful. But the thing about it is that the deeper you go into the sea, the shorter light rays, the reds, the yellows, the oranges, they, they dissipate, they disappear, which is why the water is blue. And at depth. I remember being at 60, perhaps 60 feet, 70 feet, and for a moment I turned around and looked at the vast blue where the wall and the ocean floor dropped off, and I just swam straight into that blue vastness. This deep indigo blue. I was suspended in it. I was surrounded by it. I was bathed in these blue waters. It was the most magical experience. And I didn’t, I didn’t wanna turn around while I, I knew that right behind me were my fellow divers and the wall. And of course, my way back to the surface was all behind me. But for those few moments, I dwelled in this magic, this magical blue womb. This magical blue cocoon just filled my spirit and my soul.

And actually I was inspired to purchase a ring, a tanzanite ring. Which was the remembrance of that experience. Because the color of the tanzanite, which I believe I probably saw in some stores while we were there back on the, on the Cayman Islands, was precisely the color of that water. And of course. Water holds vibration, it holds resonance and it holds color frequency.

So there was something medicinal in that frequency for me, and as I return to that memory, it comes back to me. So I invite you to consider your own memories with the water perhaps. Watching the waves playing on the shore with the, the frilly fluffy sea foam or the creeks or the lakes, whether it’s the color of the water, the texture.

Maybe it’s slipping into a warm bath. Just wanna invite you, or maybe it’s being in a warm summer rainstorm. Just wanna invite you back to your own memory with the waters that you can appreciate. Maybe it’s standing and just looking at the waters from afar. You may not be as into getting into the waters as I am, so whether it’s observing or it may be a beautiful snowstorm, the crystalline nature of water, just take a moment to consider the beauty of water.

And how that can touch you today.

Hmm.

So the other piece I want to share with you and talk with you about is the concept of hydration, which is a very practical subject because the fact of the matter is, is that the aging process is really a dehydration process and that we as humans in this day and age with our lifestyles are naturally dehydrating.

So one of the things I have been exploring these last few years, because I have been really on a, uh, passionate quest to open to the wisdom and the mysteries of water.

And what I have discovered in part through reading a book called Quench, that teaches about hydration from a health standpoint.

It, illuminated something I had heard about previously, which is this concept of the fourth phase of water or structured water, it’s known as structured water. And again, there has been research done where water can inhabit a state. Its molecular state can go from the traditional H2O to H 3 0 2. Which is this form of water.

So we know about the three phases of water, water as liquid, water as solid, water as vapor, but there is this other phase of water, the fourth phase called the structured phase, which which has a different molecular composition. And they have discovered that the waters within us are actually structured waters, the waters that optimally hydrate us, the waters that can be absorbed and received most readily are structured waters. And I have learned and discovered through this book that it’s not about the eight glasses of water that we’ve been taught, uh, to optimize our hydration. There are so many other facets. There are the facets of, is the water structured? Does it have mineral content? Of course there is the issue of the purity of the water.

But so much of what has been done to our waters, including the bottling of them, takes the living nature, the living quality out of the water. It turns it into bulk water, or even distilled water is something that’s known as dead water, meaning that it has no mineral content. Left within it. And while it may have nothing else within it, it’s not something that will optimally hydrate us.

And the fact of the matter is, is that hydration can be optimized through foods we eat. They have discovered that fruits and vegetables contain structured water. So if we drink eight ounces of water in the morning and we consume something like an apple, for example, which has quite a bit of structured water in it, that we will be more hydrated then if we drink two glasses of water.

There is something about the, the structuring of it and the way that we ingest it that optimizes our hydration and enables us to carry that through the day. And so much disease is rooted in dehydration, whether it’s inflammatory issues or diseases or other diseases, that if we are optimally hydrated.

Because it is our system’s way in part of flushing out our system, purifying our system, those things can resolve themselves. So I do wanna recommend if you’re interested in learning more about hydration, either reading or listening to the book, Quench.

The other piece that I love that was illuminated in this book is that movement and in particular organic fluid movements of our joints help with the hydration process within us.

So in a way, we’re being invited to move like water to flow, like water, to optimize our hydration. And the waters within us were being invited to commune with our waters.

Hmm.

Water for me has felt like a teacher.

Joan: So the final piece I want to share with you is an epiphany I had when I was watching a series that Zac Efron had done. I think, Down to Earth or something like that. They did a whole episode on water. And for part of that episode they were looking at springs, which I do wanna give a big shout out for Natural Spring Water because it is naturally structured water and there are, so many things about springs that are being uncovered. So if you can access a spring or spring water, I highly recommend it. We are fortunate enough to have a spring here locally, and so I do collect water there regularly to consume, and as I said, it is naturally structured water.

But one of the things they were talking about in the show was, looking at the different mineral content of different kinds of, spring water.

But part of what they did is they went to Lourdes in France, they did the whole episode in France and the French, they are on top of it with water. Apparently in Paris, they have these amazing water fountains that are, that would put a traditional, like you can go and fill your water bottle. And the way they purify their water is, is just above and beyond there, in Paris.

But anyway, I digress. They were in Lourdes. And they were exploring the healings that have taken place in Lourdes over the past century or centuries. And I realized, I realized that that is in part the nature of water. That it’s not just the waters that happen to be in Lourdes, although they certainly are imprinted with that healing capacity or that matrix just by virtue of all that has occurred there, all the, the faith and belief and, the presence of of Mother Mary there at Lourdes. But that all water has that same capacity, all water in its optimal state. Has that potential, has that capacity. Just like us, just like us as humans, like water can be such a reflection of that.

We can be distorted and you know, in a, a lower vibration in our lives and what we’re pursuing and how we are expressing who we are as beings and what we are creating in our life. Or we, there’s the whole spectrum, and then we have this amazing capacity to be our most full expression of who we are in, in our sacred expression of the divine blueprint of who we are in our essence.

And water shows us that. And as I said, we are a body of water. We are a unique watershed.

Oh. So as we bring this to a close today, I am imagining that I am blowing a breath of prayers across the waters to you. Just like the wind moves the waters, I am blowing a breath of prayers to your waters. May your waters be blessed today. May you remember the beauty and the mystery that dwells within you as it is reflected in the waters around you. And may you take some time to connect with water and perhaps increase your experiences with healing waters, hydrating waters, blessing waters.

And as we close, I remind you as always, That whether you yourself are making ripples or grand great waves that you beloved are love and you are loved.

Thank you for joining us today on The Crone Codes podcast. If you appreciated what was shared, please rate, review, subscribe and comment wherever you get your podcasts.

The author of The Mistress of Longing and The Reach is Holy, she describes our longing and desire as an ancient navigational system and return to love. And offers an in depth explanation of shamanic soul retrieval and its place in returning to our wholeness.

Wendy reveals the origin story for her upcoming offering “A House Where Love Lives,” which is rooted in her younger self’s dream, and is a medicine for these times focused on heart-led living, reclamation, and coming home to ourselves.

01:17 Meet Wendy Havlir

05:03 Wild and Holy Origins

10:28 Wendy’s Rewilding Journey

14:09 Clarissa Pinkola Estés

16:34 Lineages and Poetry

19:24 Poem Walk with Me

25:57 House Where Love Lives

32:56 Soul Retrieval Explained

38:21 Longing as Compass

45:22 Offerings and Invitation

50:14 Poem Dress Me in Love

52:32 Books and Farewell

Wendy C. Havlir, MA3

Website: shegathersbeauty.com

“A House Where Love Lives” Listener Discount

$250 off Threshold Keeper is coupon code CRONE
$250 off Soul Weaver is coupon code CRONECODES

Transcript

Welcome back to the Crone Codes.

I am your host, the creator and the resident Crone, Joan Advent. And I am so delighted and honored to welcome my friend, my soul sister, mentor Wendy Havlir to join us today. Welcome, Wendy.

Wendy: Thank you, Joan. I’m so overjoyed to be here

Joan: I know. It’s so going to be so good.

There is so much depth and richness that Wendy brings, and I am excited to share the wonder of Wendy with you.

So let’s just start with the essence of who Wendy is.

So as we do on The Crone Codes, I want to invite you, our listener, to take a moment, close your eyes if you’re able to, to just receive and let wash over you. The essence of who Wendy is and all the medicine she brings, the codes she brings, and all that she has accomplished in order to be here with us today with these codes.

So Wendy Havlir is a poet, shaman, and the founder of the School of Wild and Holy. It’s a place where women are guided through sacred initiation. Ancient wisdom, teachings and practices, rewilding and remembrance, rooted in ancestral lineages of seers and mystic poets. Her work weaves shamanism, poetry and lived experience to open thresholds into deep liberation, embodied spirituality, and profound partnership with love itself. She’s the author of The Mistress of Longing, a very powerful book about the deep call of the Divine Feminine, and the power of desire. She also has a book of poetry, The Reach is Holy and is currently working on her next compilation.

Welcome.

Wendy: Thank you, Joan. I feel like I just had a ceremony, having you read that. That was really beautiful.

Joan: Yeah, ceremony is also, I would say just having worked with you in the past and what I know of you, like ceremony is a key, aspect of your medicine as I’ve experienced it.

Wendy: Mm, thank you.

Joan: Yeah, you’re welcome.

So there, there are so many pieces of, what I just shared that, that feel so important when we consider the crone codes that we gather throughout the course of our life. Particularly as we sit here in 2026 with the collective landscape that we’re all navigating and living. But I really want to start with wild and holy and this, this sense of like rewilding.

And remembrance, which I’m assuming that, that those all go together. That wild and holding rewilding and remembrance.

Wendy: Mm-hmm. Hmm.

Well, I love so, so of course the words wild and holy are the name of my school, the School of Wild and Holy, which was actually given to me by my helping spirits. And as a shamanic practitioner and someone who, as one of the many facets of who I am and someone who, has cultivated really deep partnerships, with my helping spirits, um, and being in that kind of holy communication with them.

Hmm. Daily and all day long. I’m so honored that they, provided me with the sort of marching orders, if you will, the directive in 2020 in the early days of the pandemic, that it was time to open my school. And they gave me the name of the school And I would say that, it is very much about rewilding and the holiness of that and the remembering of who we really are.

And so what I have found so much in my own life and in the work that I do, there’s this powerful shedding and sort of stripping away of all of these layers that have grown over us through the years by simply being human. And the sacred process of realizing that there are these like extra layers and so this beautiful sort of falling away so that we can remember who we really are and.

I think to be human is to be both wild and holy already. I don’t think that there’s anything that we have to do or become to that is our essence. We are wild because we are in this skin and we have blood and organs and feelings and flesh and you know, all of these things and desire. Desire, all of all of these things that are deeply human and grief and ways of being and moving that only humans can do.

And what also is true in the cosmology that I walk with and in the teachings that I provide by way of the school of wild and holy. Is that we came Holy. And our soul is untouchable. It is unmarked. Yeah. So no matter what we’re experiencing in this realm of activity, there is also a truth that stands by us.

For the duration of our time in this human body. And so there’s this way that remembering that we are both wild and holy at the same time is becoming more and more and more essential for us to be here in this life as we know it right now, not to escape it. Yes, but to be able to be better grounded and supported in that.

And on a personal note, I would just say that my own personal life has been this remembrance of being untamed and, and rewilding myself.

Joan: And how long has that journey been happening? Consciously.

Wendy: Consciously? Yeah. ‘cause I was gonna say from the moment I popped out of the womb, but um hmm.

I would say really since probably consciously around 2007 or 2008. And there have been many initiations since that time.

Joan: Yes. Yes. And I know that you have studied, uh, with Dr. Clarissa Pinkola Estés, and was, was that a seminal aspect of that journey?

Wendy: I would say it would be even before the date that I gave actually corresponds to my time at Naropa University where I was studying Contemplative psychotherapy and there was a sort of magical way that things were. And, and really it goes even way beyond that, but we don’t have that much time.

So I’m gonna start here where I sort of was inner, was guided. There was a way that. It was really magical because all of a sudden I realized that I could, I already had quite a lot of academic experience, and while I was at Naropa, I was realizing that I could begin to open myself up to bridging the worlds of spirituality with applied practicality, and there was so much, you know, deep contemplative.

Practice with a mindful awareness practice while also learning how to be a psychotherapist. And so really learning so much about the mind. And how powerful the mind is. Not necessarily always in a good way and often all of the ways we get hooked into really believing something by way of our mind.

I would say that that was kind of an opening to realizing that there was something more that, that I was beginning to actually experience. In my body and with others and helping people in that way. And then it was, was with Dr. E Clarissa Pinkola Estés. And I mean I think that I studied with her for eight, nine, maybe 10 years.

And that really blew the doors open. Yeah. Into realizing this instinctual nature, everything really became more embodied. More about being more wolf like and understanding what that meant and moving into storytelling.

Joan: Yeah. So if anyone does not know who Dr. Pinkola Estes is, she is the author of Women Who Run with Wolves and a powerful, voice, not only for Cronehood.

But for that instinctual nature within all of us as women. And she really goes in through story, and you can correct me if I’m wrong or flesh out more. Um, she goes in through story to those common, universal aspects of our journey as women and the, the rewilding and the what are the, the layers that we’re meant to shed.

Wendy: Yeah. And you know, one of the things that I think is so remarkable about her work is she’s a Jungian analyst, so she’s working with all of the archetypes that are common to, you know, all of us at different parts of our lives and so on and so forth. But that she actually, and she is a Curandera, she is a traditional storyteller and she comes from a long line of storytellers and the ways that she can.

Bring life to the story and to our own lives and bodies through her particular unique way of storytelling is just profound. I mean, I think that she, and this work is, you know, as, as big or bigger than like, you know, the work of many, I’ll just say. And also she spent time with wolves, like researching them.

Wow.

And understanding, yeah. And understanding what it meant. I mean, to the extent that she could, what it meant to be wolf like, and that part was really important to her. Um, so yeah. Yeah.

Wow, I didn’t know that.

Mm-hmm.

Joan: Wow. And so for you, because I hadn’t planned on discussing her or talking about her, but, but my sense is that for many of us who have been on a conscious journey of rewilding remembering who we are, that we often have, uh, mentors, teachers, or lineages that we are…

You know, we are kind of the next generation of, or one of the generations of. And so you are, I would say in, in her lineage you are in many different lineages. The shamanic lineages, the poetic lineages. When I first read your poetry, I really felt, as if I were reading a poem by Rumi or Hafiz or you know, any of the mystic poets.

And so it just feels important to name that sense of lineage. because we certainly have our, our biological ancestral lineages, but then we have our, whether it’s teaching or spiritual lineages, that each of us. On a conscious journey will be drawn to, or mentored or guided by.

Wendy: Mm-hmm. Indeed. So many lineages that converge within each of us. And I think that, through all of the lineages that I’m aware of thus far in my life, you know, poetry is really the river that moves through all of them for me. And that is something that I’ve been rewilding all my life to some degree, is permissioning myself to be the poet. And to understand the relevance of the poet and poetry.

The archetype of the poet and poetry and, even still today, I can sometimes get, you know it, it’s a practice of mine to remember that there are many things that I can do, but really there’s, there’s something that I must do. And it must show up and be like the primary thing of whatever I’m doing, and that is poetry.

Joan: Hmm. So speaking of that, I had asked you if you share a poem or poems with us. And I think this would be a beautiful time for that. I, I don’t know what, what you’ve chosen. So we’ll all get to enjoy this together.

Wendy: Mm-hmm. Well, I’ll tell you a quick little interesting story. One of my most, most, one of my, I love all my students, but one of my beloved students, I think she’ll be okay with me saying her name.

Mafalda is helping me compile all of my poetry since I think we’ve gone all the way back to, 2019. And, I’m so close to my poetry, I often don’t know. Like I just don’t know. And I actually asked her, Mafalda, are there like some poems that you really love that you think would be beneficial for me to share right now?

So the ones that I’m reading for you are two that she actually picked out. And so I just love that. And she is quite the poet herself. So I want to bring sort of all of the poets that I love and so many of my students are poets. And, um,

Joan: You bring it out in people. I dare say that you. I know you are, um, I don’t want to say coaxing, but you are inviting and creating the space for, because there are pieces I have written with you that I, I really don’t think I would’ve had access to certainly on my own, but

mm-hmm.

Perhaps with any other teacher, so. Yes.

Wendy: You’ve written beautiful things that I’ve had the great, good fortune to witness, so thank you. Thank you.

Joan: And Mafalda actually shared two of her pieces in December in a couple.

Wendy: I know. I listened. They were gorgeous.

Joan: So it’s the, the circle keeps coming around.

Wendy: It’s the circle, and that just feels so yummy, like.

To bring all of the poets into the room right now as we’re speaking.

Joan: Yes, and before you dive in, I just keep feeling compelled to share. I’ve been doing some studying with a Hawaiian indigenous elder (Ke’Oni Hanalei), and he shares that his grandmother, who was his kind of primary teacher, Initiator into the traditions would say to him that through that lens, that indigenous Hawaiian lens, you must learn.

I’m not going to quote it exactly right, but the essence is, is you must learn or understand poetry before you can speak.

[The actual quote is, “Before you learn how to speak you must first learn how to be a poet.”]

Wendy: Oh my goodness.

Joan: Because there is this essence of the mystical and the, the ways that we are so deeply connected and the mystery. And so to understand that before you even begin to speak.

Wendy: Oh, thank you for sharing that. What a beautiful teaching. Yes, because there are, there’s so much in the poetry that isn’t being said, that is yet known and felt and is a whole language in and of itself. So that’s, that is beautiful. Hmm.

Okay. Well, okay, let’s dive into this one. This is called Walk with Me.

I won’t pretend to know how it will all turn out.
I leap anyway, I came to do it this way.
I want my whole heart, not just parts.

Wearing the mantle that is mine.
Embodying the unknown.
My promise to our collective bones.
I am an expander, rule breaker
here in a meeting place imbued with mystery.

The wild frontier of this moment.
Fire lives in my heart. Yours too.
Potential is alive and well
in the empty portals of what belongs with you.

This living, Is an act of making holy,
there is nothing about my love that is wrong.
There is nothing about your love that is wrong.

Joan: Ooh.
Yes. I just feel that washing over me.

Mmm.

There’s, there are so many threads. It’s, it really is like something I would love to just wrap myself up in.

Mm-hmm.

The words, the essence. The… And what a poem for this time.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

For this time, I know you have an offering that is coming out and that it speaks to not just an offering, but that the essence of who you are.

A House Where Love Lives. Is that right?

Wendy: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. The name is multi-layered, but the way it actually came to me was by way of, my younger self. And, at the time I had, I had the course laid out and, it’s always co-created with my helping spirits, but I couldn’t, the name wasn’t there and they weren’t giving me a name, and it was like a name is.

So important for me because it also helps me understand more and flushes out more about what the offering is and who’s going to come. Mm-hmm. , And so I was doing a something completely separate that had nothing to do with the offering and I was just simply doing a meditation, with a younger part of me.

And, and I had asked her, and I think that this is important because it will correlate to those who are called to participate in this. I had asked her, what is your original dream? Like, what is your dream for your life?

And like, she didn’t miss a beat, she simply said a house, where love lives.

Hmm.

And it was so moving, I still get a little emotional, my heart kind of bursts open and so I knew instantly, oh, that’s what we’re doing here. That’s what we’re going to be doing here. A house where love lives and, there’s a real focus, in this offering that has to do with living from the heart and seeing from the heart and an aspect of reclamation and a form of soul retrieval. Right now so that we can be together, we can be connected in a way that is palpable and real, and resourced. And, the school itself is essentially a house where love lives. And there is a council that lives there who call themselves a Council of Love, the Council of Love. And they take the students into their homes.

Hmm.

And they really enliven them with love.

Hmm.

And the strength of that and the power of that and the reclamation of that. And so, yes.

Joan: Hmm. And it, it seems to me there’s, there’s something with the starting out with your younger self and her longing.

Wendy: Yes.

Joan: That. You know, that tells me that all, like all of me is welcome or all of us is welcome.

Mm-hmm.

And I can feel like there’s some bitter sweetness to that of, you know, some grief perhaps from those places that don’t always feel welcome.

As well as that. Could this be true? Like could it,

Wendy: Right,

Joan: could it be true that there is a house where loved dwells, where, where all, all of us is welcome.

Wendy: That’s right. Including the exiled parts, the parts that we’ve learned to put away somewhere and certainly not bring out into the open. Um, yeah. And so it’s that it’s a very tender, vulnerable place. A place of those younger parts I think often when we are permissioning ourselves to turn our gaze toward them that innocence. And remembering what did this innocent part of me long for?

Yes.

And how can I use my own personal agency to tend to that now?

Joan: Hmm. Yeah, that is a powerful question and I, I hope that our listeners will take that to heart mm-hmm.

And, and really commit to finding some time to sit with that.

Wendy: Mm-hmm.

Yes. And really taking it to heart indeed, right? Like,

Joan: Yes, literally.

Wendy: In shamanism and the lineage that I belong to really the heart is where spirit moves. Spirit moves through our heart. The, the highest, the truest, gritty, get down, dirty, perfection, loving truth, it comes through the heart. Not here. because we’re rewilding.

Yes.

We’re not gonna rewild through this.

No. We’re gonna rewild through our heart, through our hands, through writing, through listening, through receiving and being resourced.

Joan: Mm-hmm. Yes, so I would like to get into longing and desire and that reach.

But before we do, just for anyone who’s not familiar with the term soul retrieval

Hmm.

Can you just speak to that.

Wendy: Of course, of course. Thank you. Thank you. Well, shamanically speaking.

Shamanically speaking, there is, a belief that we as humans experience soul loss. We experience soul loss at different times of our lives. In Curanderismo this would be called susto, A time when our soul leaps out of our body because some kind of danger or trauma is happening. And this is why we say that the soul is unmarked.

The soul knows how to be whole. And so a soul retrieval will, will happen when, for whatever reason, and it’s nobody’s fault or there’s no blame or anything, there’s actually a Divine intelligence, really a wild intelligence that, Will occur for deep protection that a part of our soul will leave.

Mm-hmm.

And go find safety and what is also true is that it can sometimes wreak havoc for us because we have a part of us that is missing. So there could be an emotional distress, physical distress, energetic distress. And so a shamanic practitioner, a trained shamanic practitioner, I’m very clear about that.

It’s so necessary that someone has good training who can provide you with this, but a shamanic practitioner who understands through their helping spirits that a soul retrieval is necessary, they go with their helping spirits to locate that part of the soul, and they bring it back. They bring it back to the individual.

And, it’s remarkable what happens for a person when they have a soul retrieval. They feel life force again. Things start working better again in their lives. They have more energy or they understand things better and in new ways it’s like they have themselves back again. So that’s soul retrieval.

Joan: Yes. And it, and it is, I would say the journey of remembrance, but it’s also the bringing all parts of us back home to ourselves.

Yes.

And so that is a specific intervention or way to bring components of us back that maybe we, we haven’t even been aware of or

Exactly.

Or, or known what medicine they hold or what power they hold or what wisdom or truth.

Wendy: Yeah, and I want to also clarify that in a group scenario, in the class that I’m doing, I’m not necessarily performing a soul retrieval in the way that I just described it for each person. But there are ways, I believe personally that in group work there is a force, a grace of retrieval and remembering that can happen.

And in fact, I had a student recently say that they felt like the entire course, of The Heart of the Matter was in and of itself a soul retrieval. So there are a couple of different ways that I’m talking about this and I just want to be clear about that and hopefully that’s not confusing.

Joan: Well, I think it just points to some, someone could get more information if they needed it and if they’re

Wendy: Absolutely.

Joan: If they’re interested in your work they can absolutely reach out to you, ask you.

Yeah.

In engaging with it., I feel like we have, you have sufficiently answered the question.

Wendy: Okay. Excellent.

Joan: But I do want to circle back to this topic of longing and desire, because I do think it is a hallmark of what you bring and certainly your book. [The Mistress of Longing.]

You’re beautiful. It’s a small book. It’s a potent book, but it’s, there’s so much that comes through The Mistress of Longing. And I have to say, as someone who was disconnected from that in my own life, like learned very early on, it was not, was not a good idea to want things or to long for things or to let my heart really deeply desire to remember, uh, the sacredness of that and the importance of that to being here and to being human. And have been one of my primary teachers about that.

Mm-hmm.

And your transmission has been a primary medicine for that. So. What can you tell us about longing and our heart’s desire? Our soul’s desire?

Wendy: Hmm.

Well there’s so much there and I think that you pointed to something that’s so necessary to understand about ourselves is that often, more often than not, we can be really disconnected from our longing and our desire for multiple reasons. Each person is different and has had their own life experience that has in some way shown them, taught them, or they’ve learned to tuck that away because it isn’t safe. But I actually think to really be embodied we must feel, we must feel things. And I think something that I’ve learned even over the last. Five, six years is that there’s a way even that a deep feeling, like a deep grief, a deep fear and deep joy is also a longing.

Longing really opens us. And it’s like Dr. E or Clarissa Pinkola Estés often talks about the river, beneath the river. Rio abajo rio. And, that’s what longing is. And, and that always feels so important for me to clarify. Like, we’re not talking about when we’re talking about longing in this way.

It’s not, you know, It’s not something out there.

Hmm.

It’s something deep in us. It’s a hunger, like a way that part of us has actually been starved.

Hmm.

And The Mistress of Longing says that longing is the most exquisite navigational system that we have. And that we came with longing. The reason why we’re even here in a body in this incarnation was from longing, was from desire to come and be here, for whatever particular purpose that is for each of us.

And of course, well, I would imagine anyone who’s listening to us right now probably, probably has some kind of cosmology that is open to other lifetimes and, and soul and having a sense that we, you know, we come for specific reasons. I don’t ever want to assume that I know what anyone holds as true for them.

That’s not for me to do, but when something is deeply missing in our lives, not because we’re not already whole, but because we don’t remember our wholeness, our wildness, and what we need to be here to feel enlivened in our body and our heart longing will tell us

yes,

if we’re listening, it will tell us the precise next steps for what we need to have a full belly and to return the radiance to ourselves to return our deep sense of meaning of being here.

So it is quite, an ancient technology, that is actually love.

Hmm.

It is actually a return to love.

Hmm.

Is what longing is.

Hmm.

It’s a return home.

Joan: Yes. And there are some cosmologies or beliefs systems that might even express that it is, it is the Divine or the sacred within us, like the, the aspect of the Divine.

Mm-hmm.

or God, whatever name you might choose, that is exploring life through us and through our longing. That it is that

mm-hmm.

Yes.

The, the, the sacredness to explore itself, to dance with itself in, in all these different, um, dimensions or all these different forms.

Wendy: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Joan: So we’re gonig start to bring this to a close, but I wanna see first if, , if there’s more you want to share about “A House Where Love Lives”, in terms of, because this is something that’s coming up, or if there are ways that if people are interested in you, your poetry, your books. We’ll have all that listed in the show notes, how to access those things.

But is there anything further you want to share about that?

Wendy: Yes, and I would love to share a poem too.

Yes.

As we wrap up, if there’s time for that. I think that I would love to invite people, that if they feel called or interested in working with me, that I would be really honored and would love to have a call with them, a free call a clarity call where they can ask me anything and we can just spend some time together. Because I certainly offer a few, I have a few spots for one-on-one work and I love that to really go deeply with someone. Um. And of course, A House Where Love Lives is going to be an incredible offering.

It is a call home. It is, um, the people that come to together in my offerings and collective are extraordinary women. Joan, of course, knows that well because she has been one of them, and I feel so lucky to be a part of these weavings, and so this offering will be extraordinary. Remarkable because it is being created for this precise moment for what we are all sort of reckoning with outside of ourselves and within, within ourselves. We are in such a huge change right now, and so there will be poetry and writing and there will be channeling and there will be this incredible nervous system that you get to plug into, um, that is the School of Wild and Holy and the Council of Love.

And so I’ll stop there because I could go on and on forever.

Joan: Yes. So I know. I always experience you and your medicine in such a visceral way. Like in, in, in such a, like dark chocolate, velvety rose petals. Mm-hmm. You know, just the, depth of heart way. And I trust our listeners are finding that as well, and your poetry is one of those transmissions. So I would, be a vote of confidence for anyone who is feeling drawn or curious to check out Wendy’s work.

Check out her as well as like her, your Instagram, where you do share both your poetry and videos from time to time. And I would love to have you gift us with another poem before we close.

Wendy: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Well, thank you. I’ll do that. And I, I forgot to say that for, your listeners, if anyone is interested in A House Where Love Lives and, and joins that cohort, by way of this podcast, I’m offering a discount. So, just make sure when you reach out to me that you mention, this podcast episode.

Joan: So generous. Thank you.

Wendy: Mm-hmm. It’s my pleasure. Okay. Well this poem is called
Dress Me in Wild Love.

I choose wild love flowing freely from my lips.

I choose unspoken trust
and passion from our hips,
communion and softness,
bathing and moonlight,
numinous doorways,
and breathtaking insights.

I choose pleasure gathered in my arms.
Promises made with kisses and long walks,
Ravens dark feathers. Fire in our bones.
I choose prayers spoken revelations out in the open,
her hands laced in mine.
We are canopies of light
sounds of devotion
in the middle of the night.

Making altars in the river
from a rounded feast,
I am a willing temptress
spreading my wings,
living naked as a wild flower,
taking in the sun.

I am heart pressed poetry dressed in wild love.

Joan: That’s a good one. It is. Will these poems be in your new compilation?

Wendy: They will. They will. I’m very much hoping to release this book later in the year, if not first thing next year. Mm-hmm. It’s quite a big compilation.

Joan: Yay. I’m looking forward to it. And I would give a shout out both to, The Reach is Holy and the Mistress of Longing.

I know The Reach is Holy I’m sure you can get both on Amazon, but I also want to give a shout out that The Mistress of Longing was published by the wonderful Lucy Pearce.

Wendy: Yeah, if you’d like to purchase, there might even be a few signed copies left of The Mistress of Longing, through Womancraft Publishing, which is in Cork, Ireland.

And you can also find that book anywhere, that you can purchase books online. So, yeah,

Joan: okay. So I want to thank you again, Wendy, for taking this time to join us for, for, for bathing us in the beauty of your words and your wisdom and your heart.

Wendy: Thank you. It’s been such an honor. I have loved getting to be with you again.

Joan: I know.

Wendy: That’s so awesome. Yeah.

Joan: Yes. And we want to thank you, our dear listener, for being with us today. And I want to remind you that whether you are making ripples in your life or big ass waves that you are love. And you are loved.

Until next time.

From her chaise lounge beside her dog, Molly, Joan reflects on the body as a wise elder, the foundation of our humanity, and a sanctuary that reconnects us to our sacred nature. Drawing on Mary Oliver’s Wild Geese, she reframes healing as allowing “the soft animal” of the body to love what it loves—not through numbing out, but through becoming more alive, connected, and oriented to a deeper truth.

Joan invites the listener to unplug from stimulation and come home to breath, heartbeat, and simple sensations, sharing practices like stillness, slow stretching, micro-movements, and observing animals as teachers of comfort and ease.

She also highlights the body’s innate wisdom, the heart’s steady miracle, and a few mysteries of human biology—offering the body as a compass for navigating collective chaos and the unknown.

00:00 Welcome to The Crone Codes + Today’s Theme: Coming Back to the Body

01:27 The Body as Wise Elder (and the Cost of Disconnection)

03:12 Mary Oliver’s “Wild Geese”: Let the Soft Animal Love What It Loves

05:53 Disconnected Domination Culture: How We Lose Our Yes/No and Our Power

08:00 Return to Sanity: Unplug, Breathe, and Rejoin Life’s Natural Rhythms

09:58 A Sacred Heartbeat: Remembering the Miracle of Being Alive

13:31 Simple Practices: Stillness, Stretching, and Micro-Movements

16:44 Go Out of Your Mind, Return to Your Senses (Daily Body Reverence)

18:25 Body Mysteries: Heart-Brain Cells & Fetal Microchimerism

20:55 Learn from Animals + Closing Blessing

From Wild Geese by Mary Oliver

You do not have to be good.
You do not have to walk on your knees
for a hundred miles through the desert repenting.
You only have to let the soft animal of your body
love what it loves.

Love & Will with Marion Rose PhD. Episode 6

Transcript

Joan: Hello, welcome back to The Crone Codes. I’m your host, the creator and resident crone Joan Advent. I’m sitting here on my chaise lounge today and my sweet little dog, Molly, is lying next to me. Just breathing in the beauty of the day. I’m looking out the window at the sunlight on the barren trees in the woods beside our house.

And what I want to talk with you about today, as Molly takes a deep breath is returning to our body. Molly’s taking a deep breath. My stomach is gurgling and what I’m aware of is just how important it is for us to have a relationship with our body.

To recognize that our body in so many ways is like a wise elder. It has been with us from the beginning. It’s been with us from when we went from two cells to four cells to 16 cells, and on and on and on.

It is the foundation of our humanity, this body that we’re walking around in.

And as my friend and former guest, Marion Rose speaks about the “Disconnected Domination Culture” that we are all living in.

The whole purpose of the disconnection is to cut us off. To cut us off from our true, sacred nature and our organic nature, all of which is found in our body.

I’ve heard it said that the definition of Christ is the sacred or the essence of God in form and so to that extent, we are all Christed beings.

And I want to go back to my favorite Mary Oliver quote from the poem, the Wild Geese. I’m doing it from memory, so I may not get it a hundred percent correct, but essentially the poem opens with you do not have to. Repent, crawling on your knees a hundred miles. I’m getting it totally wrong. You do not have to crawl upon your knees a hundred miles repenting through the desert.

You only need to let yourself love. You. You only need to let, you only need to allow the soft animal of your body love what it loves.

I’ll put in the show notes, the exact quote, but you get the gist. And with that, Molly is sitting up and readjusting.

Those few lines of that poem, Wild Geese, I would say has been my North star, my Soul’s North Star in the lifetime. To remember that it’s not about repenting, it’s not about earning.

It’s not about questing, but being here in human form, being on the planet is all about allowing the soft animal of our body to love what it loves.

And when we do that, it’s not about numbing out or getting high.

In the deepest sense when we allow the soft animal of our body to love what it loves, it brings us alive. It connects us with who we are at our deepest core. It connects us with the whole of life. It brings us back to that Christed state, to that sacred within human form.

So why is this so important? It’s so important because facets of what, as Marion describes it, the “Disconnected Domination Culture”. The key facets of that are all about keeping us disconnected from our body. Our body, which registers our innate Yes or No. Our body, which houses our capacity to tune in and to sense and to know and to read what’s occurring.

What’s occurring within us, what’s occurring around us. Our body, just like an animal’s body that is capable of sensing safety, danger. Desire, all of these very important innate, instinctual facets of our human body, that when we’re disconnected from that we are in part, disconnected from our power.

We’re more susceptible to our nervous system getting flooded and overwhelmed by sensory input that keeps us looping either in a, like a, a loop of adrenaline, a loop of, um, cortisol. Stress hormones. And when you look at the way our lives are set up these days, certainly in Western culture and here in the United States,

like it is not set up in a way that honors our body and our being. It’s not set up in a way that honors our connection to each other or to all things. And so I’m here today to remind you that coming back to your own body is a way.

It’s a way to counteract that. It’s a way to return to sanity.

When I think about all the things that are being, revealed at this time, uncovered at this time, just the, the chaos, the mayhem, the crazy that is in the collective.

Our systems are not designed to metabolize all of that all at once. However, if we are able to just come back and be with ourselves to be with our bodies and unplug from all the stimulation and just tune in to the rhythm of your breath, the beating of your heart. It’s like to the rhythm of your bones, the rhythm of your breath, the rhythm of your blood, it’s like the natural pulsation of life. It brings us back to something that is organic and true and wise. And we need that right now. We need our connection to our human body. We need our connection to its wisdom.

We need our connection to the memories that our body holds. We need our connection to the emotions that are filtered, or are a we’ll say, a standard feature of our body.

So I’m remembering, it’s probably been six years ago or so, my daughter. Needed to have a, huh, what’s the right word? A sonogram of her heart.

I believe it was a sonogram. And I was there in the room with her when she had it done. And I just want to share with you that it was such a sacred experience to witness my daughter’s heart beating, like to see it up on the screen, beating rhythmically over and over and over again. It was such a sacred moment and it, it gave her pause as well as a young teenager to witness that. And as I sit here now, just the remembrance or the knowing that our hearts are beating in this moment. They’ve been beating from the time we were in our mother’s womb and they will continue to beat. And just for a moment, if you can close your eyes, if you’re able to just allow yourself to tune in, whether you can feel the rhythm of your heartbeat or not. But to just know that there is this steady pulsation within your chest.

Your heart is pumping and delivering oxygen and all the good stuff to each of your cells. As well as taking out what’s not needed and releasing it back to be, to be dumped out. Like that, that every moment of every day your heart is beating. And that is like a miracle. I mean, I, I know we take it all for granted, but it’s nothing short of a miracle. Human life is nothing short of a miracle, and being on this planet, being on this planet is nothing short of a miracle.

And when we connect with our bodies, we remember that. We remember the miraculous. And while it seems like life in these days can feel like a, a dumpster fire with everything being exposed revealed and on and on in the way people are treating each other. When we can come back to the simplicity of letting our body love what it loves, just pausing and taking in the breath

and recognizing the sacred in this moment, it really starts to cut through all the crazy.

So I want to invite you to just let yourself enjoy moments of stillness.

Where you pause and just register your breath.

And I also want to encourage you to experiment with a practice. One of the practices I enjoy, which is my body, The soft animal of my body loves to stretch. And to, um, just like you might watch a cat move or even a dog move, or any animal, they’re so good at stretching and uh, just kind of stretching into the body. Just almost like slipping it on like silk stockings, just the way that they move in this very fluid and intentional nature. And I want to invite you to experiment with long languid movements in the body or micro movements.

Just seeing how small you can move. It might even be one finger or just moving in the most subtle ways as a way to begin to come back to your body, to your beautiful body.

There’s so many things , so many avenues and threads that I could go down in this episode, which I’m, I’m going to save some of those for another day, but, but I just want to invite you to return to the wonder and the simple sensations that we can experience within the body.

So again. Just inviting you to experiment with whether it’s slow, subtle, micro movements, or if you could imagine the way an infant might be playing with dust moats that are floating through the air, just allowing yourself, whether it’s through your hands. Or opening up and expanding through your arms or, or just exploring spiral movements through your wrists, your hands, your legs, your whole body to just let yourself explore. And I like to say, sometimes we need to go out of our mind. These days many are going out of their minds, but I want to invite you to intentionally go out of your mind and to come back to your body, return to your senses. I want to invite you to go out of your mind. And return to your senses. Return to the sacred yearnings of your body, loving what it loves.

And as you move through your day I want to just plant the seeds of remembrance to hold your body with the sacredness it deserves. So whether it’s moving with intention, listening to your cues, your hunger cues, your fatigue cues, need for rest, need for water. Or, or whether it’s, as you’re putting on your clothes or looking in the mirror, just celebrating the miracle and the sacred nature of this incredible body, like this sanctuary for your spirit That is such a miraculous biological computer, Extraordinaire.

Before we close, I’ll just offer the reminder. Not a reminder, but just offer that I learned that, you know, that our heart actually has brain cells. And that our heart is able to tune in seconds, microseconds before the mind. And I just offer this as one of the small pieces of the miraculous that is our human body.

And another that comes to mind is the way that when we as women are pregnant, whether a baby is delivered to full term or not. Anytime we are pregnant, there are residual fetal cells that live within a woman’s body forever. As long as she’s still alive, there are cells from the fetus that she carried whether there is a miscarriage, whether there is a live birth, uh, still birth, no, no matter how long the term is. That, that these are some of the sacred mysteries and there are so many more. I just want to remind you that this body, this vehicle you’re moving through time with, through life with is so worthy of your honor. And of coming home to, and remembering, and to listening in.

Listening in to what it loves. Listening into its visceral yes and visceral no. If we just do that in this year. Or in this lifetime or in this phase that we’re all in, we’re, we’re just going to be better off. It, it’s going to short circuit any misery, any, and it’s just going to make things better. And it’s going to give us a true north, or a compass. It’s going to give us a compass that we can orient to. And don’t we all need this as we’re navigating the great unknown that we’re walking through in these days.

And for some next level mentoring or tips on how to let the soft animal of your body love what it loves. If you have a pet, I recommend that you take some time to just observe the way they move, whether it’s. The request for belly rubs, the laying on their back and waiting for a belly rub, or it’s the cat that comes and slinks up next to you, sidles up next to you.

Or they just come and curl up in your lap or put, put their head under your hand. Just become a student. Become a student of the animals, and consider how can I bring that comfort level, that comfortability with just letting my body love what it loves? How can I bring that home? Into my day-to-day life.

How can I, in any given moment, whether you’re driving, whether you’re cooking, whether you are sitting and working at your desk, how can I invite in even more of what I want? What my body, what would make my body feel good in this moment? What would help it just relax or feel more of a sense of ease in this moment?

So I want to invite you. To practice with that.

So that’s it for today. Sending you all my love, honoring your beautiful body as I sit here with Molly looking out the window at the trees.

And I do as always want to remind you that whether you are making ripples, perhaps the most subtle of ripples in your life, or you are making seismic big ass waves, you, you, my dear, our love. And you are loved.

Emilie speaks to this with her teachings, devotion and wisdom on: partnering from our Feminine Presence; holding our partners as our Beloveds; placing God at the center of our Union; remembering our identity as daughters of God; and relying on prayer as a powerful relationship tool. And she gives us an inside look at some of the spiritual and relationship missteps she took on her journey to gather this faith, and wisdom and find her Beloved.

Finally, Emilie introduces her upcoming free offering Renewal: 21 Days of Prayer. It is a sanctuary space for women to engage in daily  prayer on behalf of their future beloved or current union by renewing their own heart, mind and soul.

00:30 Introducing Emilie Atwal

03:02 Meditative Biography of Emilie

08:27 Understanding Divine Union

14:07 Emilie’s Relationship Journey

24:17 The Power of Prayer in Relationships

26:26 Generational Shifts in Feminine and Masculine Dynamics

36:09 What does it look like to be Surrendered Wife?

36:49 The Importance of Safety in Relationships

37:46 Supporting Your Husband’s Growth with Prayer

38:38 Anchoring in God for Guidance

38:50 How Emilie’s Parent’s Marriage Influenced Her own Union

40:13 Accessing Compassion, Forgiveness and Mercy in our Relationships

40:51 Epiphany on the First Commandment

43:33 The Pillar of Creation in Union

48:40 Invitation to 21 Days of Prayer

52:25 The Power of Communal Prayer

Emilie Atwal

Instagram
Renewal: 21 Days of Prayer Free offer

Transcript

Joan: Welcome to the Crone Codes. I’m your host, the Creator, and the resident Crone Joan Advent, and I am so delighted and honored to have my sister, my dear soul sister, heart sister, Emilie Atwal with us today. Welcome, Emilie.

Emilie: Well, thank you so much, Joan, for having me. It’s such a pleasure to be here today.

Joan: Yes, Emilie has some important wisdom to share.

I would say as we as a collective are evolving, there are some codes that Emilie carries and is a powerful speaker for. So I knew when I started this podcast that I wanted to have Emilie join us within our first six months. So I’m so glad you could take the time to be with us.

Emilie: Mm, it’s such an honor. Yeah.

I love how we planned it ahead of time and it ended up being right in the middle of my most chaotic time of year where I’m moving and solo parenting, and I really had to sit with it like, God, should I postpone? Like, and God’s like just, just sit down and have a conversation with dear Joan, and I’ll just speak from that place of we can still bring our wisdom, we can still share our thoughts even if the circumstances aren’t ideal.

And sometimes we forget that. So here we are.

Joan: Yeah. So that’s a piece of the wisdom you’re, you’re opening this up with. And I frankly think that is so key really for this year, because from what I can tell, it’s going to be a very dynamic year. And the plans, whatever plans we might have,

Emilie: yeah.

Joan: Are going to have to be very fluid and, uh, we’re just not gonna be able to hold onto those too tightly.

Emilie: I hear you. It’s like plan to surrender or else,

Joan: or else at your peril.

Emilie: That should be number one, or else it’s gonna be hard to hold on to anything.

Joan: Yes, yes, yes. So I want to open in the way that, um, I do that I typically do, which is to share, uh, your biography with our listeners. And the way that I have developed to do that here is to share it like a meditation.

So I want to invite you, Emilie, to close your eyes and our listeners to close their eyes and to just receive, receive the, the beauty of who Emilie is, what her wisdom is through these words, and just noticing what are the codes that you hear that you maybe resonate with, that you’re curious about. So we’re going to take a few moments with that before we dive in.

Emilie: Gladly, I’m all ready. Eyes closed. Just this feels good.

Joan: Yes. So Emilie Atwal is a Relationship Mentor who transmits her wisdom gathered in becoming the wife, the mother and the beloved daughter of God that she is today. She is honored to support women in preparing for their beloved, or those in current union who are ready to experience deeper peace, love, and fulfillment by creating a strong foundation within themselves.

She believes that relationships are where we get to blossom as more of ourselves and to radiate God’s love, not shrivel or lose yourself along the way. She is in awe and reverence that this human experience has provided us with the great gift of being in communion with God through our service and our devotion to our beloved in our divine union. Her teachings are centered in Christ and are open to all women seeking comfort in knowing and embodying their true identity as God’s beloved daughters first and foremost. Her years as an elementary school teacher showed her the importance and the value of a loving and stable home with present and authentic parents.

Creating a solid foundation for our children’s growth and experience of support. As a parent, she knows all too well the concern for the wellbeing of our children. She believes that we give them permission to be themselves by reflecting to them our own authentic expression. She also believes that one of the greatest gifts we can provide our children and their future is by offering and modeling an example of a sacred, nourishing, and loving relationship, which includes healthy conflict.

Her vision is to transform the collective by building strong foundations and families through our connection with God, ourselves and our union.

Mm-hmm. Beautiful.

Emilie: Thank you so much, Joan, for reflecting all that and receiving that and sharing this biography. Yeah. I love how my past as a teacher has really helped shift the foundation into being a relationship mentor and how it’s continued its own teaching. Because when you work with mothers and women, everything you’re doing is impacting their children because they’re that center, the glue of the family.

So it’s like I never stopped working with children. I love children, but now I work with, with the moms or the women. Yeah. It’s a beautiful shift.

Joan: Yes. You’re working upstream, so to speak.

Emilie: Yeah.

Joan: Yes. Well, I would love it if you’re willing mm-hmm. To just to unpack for those that, that may not understand or know what we mean, uh, when we’re referring to whether it’s divine union or you’re beloved.

Like what do you mean when you speak to that?

Emilie: Yeah. It’s an important foundation and understanding of divine union. So when I speak to that, the divine piece, I see it as God being the foundation. In our union, in our marriage, and when God is part of your union, it absolute absolutely shifts everything because then there’s this willingness to be in communion with God through our own individual path.

As , as you, as your husband, for example, we’re in a interracial, multi-faith marriage, and it comes with deeper trust in knowing that God is weaving his hand in what that looks like, because in essence, what is the purpose is to experience God and to do that from a place of service and devotion to each other, for our families. And the other piece of divine union, oftentimes you’ll talk about polarity and needing to harmonize the feminine and masculine within yourself first. And I see it more as I agree that we have the masculine feminine principles, we’re reflections of God and He created us in his image. But I see it more as becoming our authentic self, which as women is being more feminine and instead of now striving to become more feminine, which can become a thing of, well, what can I change or do to be more feminine?

I like the language of simply becoming more of yourself because you are inherently feminine. Hmm. And from that place in your femininity, you can meet your partner who will be more in his masculinity because that is how we will attract each other. So you don’t have to have this perfect harmony within yourself.

I see it more that when you are more in your feminine and you’re surrendered, you actually belong first and foremost as God’s bride.

Joan: Hmm, wow.

Emilie: Yeah. Yeah. It’s that identity piece transform you, transforms you from the beginning because when you’re God’s bride first and then you meet your beloved, all of the pressure that you would have on your partner.

Joan: Hmm.

Emilie: To feel safe, to feel valued, to feel worthy is no longer on his shoulders because that worthiness, that belonging is in God first. That is already bestowed upon you. That is already your foundation. And from that place, then you enter a partnership and you grow in your partnership without that disappointment.

Because if you put all that on your partner’s shoulders, guess what? You’re going to be disappointed down the road because no man can live up to that. No man is like God. But your man will want to inherently provide and will love you, and nurture you and cherish you. But from this place of overflow instead of this pressure to meet all of your requirements because there’s actually something missing within you first that you think he can fill.

And that’s not your beloved’s job. That’s no one else’s job. But God’s. And beloved, I just love the word beloved. ‘cause, be loved.

Joan: Mm-hmm.

Emilie: Just like, wow. What a beautiful word to call our partner. It’s more than a partner it’s someone to be loved by in the most intimate way. And that is really what is the difference with a partner, is that intimacy part, that sacred intimacy, that emotional connection, that ability to be seen in all of who you are.

Hmm. And that’s who I see as your beloved. That person that meets you where you’re at, and that person who wants to grow with you and with God.

Joan: Mm-hmm.

And was that a foundation in your relationship or your marriage from the start? Or is this something that evolved over time or was there a qualitative, difference with your beloved, as opposed to say like past relationships or what have you?

Emilie: Yeah. There was a huge shift before I met my current husband. In all of my past relationships, all of my twenties, there was this distance between God and I that I had created. I’ll speak to, to curiosity for a moment because curiosity is a beautiful gift. I use it all the time with clients, with my own relationship.

If you can get curious about why your husband or partner is saying what they’re saying, where they’re coming from, and find that positive intent behind their actions, it really helps transform your relationship. But curiosity also leads us astray because we’re open to trying everything. And that was me in my twenties.

So I was very curious and I looked for my freedom everywhere in adventure, in men, in relationships. So in my past relationships. I would self abandon, I would lose myself. And I think a lot of women out there can relate to wanting to change themselves. And sometimes it’s quite unconscious. You’re so used to it.

Or you’ll stay quiet. You won’t say what you really mean. You don’t want to create conflict and you won’t radiate who you are because you want their love. Mm-hmm. And sometimes women don’t realize that this is actually manipulation. When you withhold information, hoping that, we’ll be okay. You’re manipulating the situation and not in truth.

And in most of my past relationships, many of them showed me my inherent wound of worthiness because that is the beauty of each relationship. It will show you what you believe is true about yourself. That is actually a lie. And it will come up through your partner so that you can see it and then dissolve it and it’ll keep coming up.

And that’s when we can see patterns coming up again and again and again until we are aware enough to look at it and see that it is not true. Like the, I’m unworthy of this. If a man leaves me, now I’m unworthy, or I’m discarded, or I’m powerless. These false identities that come up a lot, we hold so many of them and they really guide our our life.

So in the past relationships. I changed myself and actually with spirituality, I, I went to India and I, I was seeking, always seeking. And my last partner, he really wasn’t open to spirituality. He was very skeptical, very scientific and skeptical, and I saw myself want to share, but he was very closed. And then I didn’t really know how to navigate that.

So after that painful breakup, I went through a huge closing off of my heart period. And I didn’t have tools that I, that I have now. So I, I numbed myself. I was very much into avoidance, and that happens with just heart closure. I don’t trust men. Why would I open up my heart ever again? And later on it’s interesting ‘cause I followed mentors then that I don’t connect to at all anymore, which just shows how much we transform in over five, six years.

And one mentor, something that I really stuck with was, when you are single, it’s the time to level up and expand your consciousness so that you can attract a partner that will be at that level of consciousness. And that makes sense. And now I would look at that advice and see that if the leveling up doesn’t involve putting God first mm-hmm.

Then are you really leveling up if it’s always self-oriented? So I would recommend if anyone’s single and listening to this, to descend, descend with God first before leveling up and, and focusing on, I need to have higher consciousness and higher awareness and just descend with God into your feminine presence, into your identity as his daughter.

And that will align you to attract the person meant for you. And when I was following all this advice and kind of in a lot of new age circles and principles, at that time, I was a little bit confused and using my sexuality in a way to manifest things. I really got caught up in the circles of your sexuality is your power and you can use it to manifest whatever you want.

Joan: Wow.

Emilie: Yeah.

Joan: Wow.

Emilie: And again, it’s the self that’s directing through these teachings. Mm-hmm. Right. And that’s not true surrender. Mm-hmm. Because God has a plan for you and your sexuality isn’t a tool that you need to use to go and get things.

But at the time I thought that I was revolutionizing myself and opening up myself and liberating myself. Mm-hmm. And that’s a big distortion in the feminine space that is present to this day. Mm-hmm. So it feels important to speak on. But there was a moment in time when, it was interesting because I read a lot of books and I had gotten this book called Spiritual Partnership.

Mm-hmm. And I never even opened it because I looked at it and I said, I don’t need to read this book. I know what I want. And I would always pray that God bring me a partner that I can grow with emotionally, mentally, spiritually, and physically, energetically bring me a man that I can do all of these things with.

And there was a big shift in the moment that I knew I was ready for my beloved, that I was closed off to anything but that. Hmm. There was no more just dating for fun. Mm-hmm. Because I did that after the, the numbing and the closing off. I started dating for fun ‘cause I had never really gone on dates before.

Mm-hmm. As funny as that sounds, I had met my partners in life in my twenties, so I never done the whole dating scene. So I did that. Um, but when I decided I was ready and I knew I wanted not only just any relationship, but I was ready for my husband.

Joan: Mm-hmm.

Emilie: There was no more open door open to situation ships or me, I’m not sure.

It was certainty and clarity and that moment really changed everything and brought my husband in a few months later.

Joan: Hmm.

Emilie: Yeah.

Joan: Wow. And I’m going to ask because I’m sure somebody is curious, but as God is at the center of your relationship

Emilie: mm-hmm.

Joan: I’m assuming it doesn’t mean that it’s like perfect and smooth sailing all the way.

Emilie: Definitely not. Our relationship, if you have God at the center mm-hmm. God will bring you peace during the stormy weather. But it doesn’t mean that the weather’s not going to change because this is, this is life. So you’re going to have calmer periods and, and stormy periods. The major difference with God at the center.

Is that the pillar of trust within you is your main foundation and you trust in God, and that God has brought these two spirits together to create from this place to be in devotion, to be in service. So whenever that pillar of trust gets chipped or something happens, that’s where you go to first to mend it.

And you don’t do it all on your own. You bring it to God and you lay those burden at God’s feet. That’s the major difference, and you’ll see with even what I’m offering with a huge part of my life, which I didn’t have in my past relationships, is, is the practice of prayer and devotional living through prayer.

Hmm. And prayer doesn’t have to be always in quiet time in the morning or in the evening. That is beautiful because God does speak to us through stillness, but God also speaks to us through people, through situations. God is speaking to us in in all of our day if we’re willing to listen and be open-hearted and see what’s there for us.

So prayer comes in the car. Prayer is always happening, and the peace of living from a place of divine union. An important practice that I love to do is when you wake up or in the morning as you’re driving, to really pray for your hearts. For your heart and the heart of your partner to be open to receive God, first and foremost, his grace, his wisdom, his holy Spirit, and then to be open to communicate with each other and doing this when things are going great and doing this as soon as there’s conflict.

Because conflict comes from fear, right? We’re afraid that something will happen or we’re feeling hurt and pain from the past or afraid it’s going to happen again in the future. So when we come to prayer in those moments of fear, knowing that God fills us up with the deepest, unwavering trust, it is, it is the greatest tool, like prayer is my greatest relationship tool.

Joan: That’s, that’s significant. And I know I had mentioned to you before we started recording, part of my desire to, uh, interview you in part is because, well, there is that piece, the prayer, the prayer piece, and the wisdom of that. But also just from a generational standpoint, I do feel like my generation and those perhaps even ahead or in between yours and mine, there is a degree of whether it’s, um, yielding or willing to kind of partner in a way like a.

Whether it’s the surrender aspect or the yielding or that embodiment of the feminine in a particular way that I, I don’t necessarily see as often mm-hmm. In my generation in terms of our partnership. So even to, and it does speak to the issue of trust, or it does, to me it does feel like it’s layers of, um, perhaps defendedness.

Mm-hmm. As our generations, my generation has maybe cleared out some of the, so cleared out some of the debris as it relates to men and women and how we relate to each other and just the whole consciousness around, um. Whether it’s women and, you know, first having to go to this place of like being equal.

Um, and then like how the, just the shift from, ‘cause what you’re describing in your partnership isn’t necessarily like what the, the 1950s, um, advertisement of the little woman at home and the, the man is off like doing the men things and the women are doing the women things. I, I, there’s a qualitative difference.

Emilie: Mm-hmm.

Joan: Um, but we’ve kind of done this arc of transformation and I do see your generation embodying more comfort with a degree of surrendered partnership than I, I typically see. In my peers or women of my own age. It feels like there’s, there’s something in the evolution that is occurring and you and your peers are, are like bringing it forward into society in a way that feels important.

Emilie: Yeah. I feel like it’s a return to our true biology because without looking at the traditional setting of, well, the man goes to work and provides, and the woman stays with the kids, and, and that is actually beautiful. And if that works and fulfills each partner, because that can be your service, that can be your devotion, and there’s truly nothing.

That is a bigger privilege than raising your children and shaping their minds and forming them. You know, it’s, I understand with, with the economics and how things have shifted with inflation and money. It’s like, oh, well both partners need to work and we have to put our kids in daycare and, but that separation between mother and child really creates dramatic effects.

Mm-hmm. So I think it’s, it always varies couple to couple where they meet. And in the feminine liberation movement, it definitely brought important changes for equal rights. But through that movement, we also see women competing with men. Women saying, well, I don’t need a man. ‘cause now I can provide for myself and I can put a roof over my head and I can fill up my bank account and I can do this and that and that, and now I don’t need you.

And that literally takes away the man’s greatest fulfillment, which is to provide for a woman and family.

Joan: Mm-hmm.

Emilie: Which is interesting how that happened. Right. Because it’s equality, but a man wants to feel needed. Mm-hmm. And when a woman becomes unable to surrender and needing to control, it actually dims the purpose of the man.

And then you’ll probably have a lot of women being like, well, if I don’t do it, nothing will get done. Or I can’t trust him to do it in the way that it needs to be done. And to that, I would say be discerning in what you’re holding onto. Because on one side, if you want your man to step up, but on the other side you’re not willing to give him space to step up and in, then how is he meant to engage in a different way?

Joan: Yeah. So I would see that there are, and if that, there are two sides related to the polarity, and I think this does, it has its roots in, um, both the. Distorted feminine and the distorted masculine. And because we are emerging from a culture of, um, patriarchy, for lack of a better word, just to, to put it in a nutshell, that sense of like safety and trust, like the trust and the, the undefendedness, like knowing how to enter a space in an undefended way and that there is, I’m seeing now a greater reverence for the feminine in a way that I don’t believe was embodied by and large in the culture and in many relationships.

So the ability, like when I think about whether it’s our grandmothers, um. Where the man was destined to be the leader, but there was not always the honoring and the reverence and respect

Emilie: Yeah.

Joan: For the Feminine. And whether it’s for the wisdom we bring in motherhood or our visioning capacities for perhaps being able to see things, um, in a different way, in a multidimensional way.

And that’s something that’s occurred throughout all of that arc of evolution, which included the women’s empowerment or liberation and even the, the whole new age feminine rise thing somehow has all been in the service of coming back to like the reverence for both. The place of the feminine and the place of the masculine.

And I think that when I think about my own generation, and I’ll speak to even my own marriage, it’s that, is it safe, uh, to trust? Like, will I be overpowered? Will I not be supported? That, that, those moments that have us defaulting to, um, the, the less than optimal, less than divine union, we’ll say, efforts at, you know, marriage 1.0 or, or, or even less than that.

So it feels important to flesh out and have these conversations. And I know we were, we were talking about just what you witnessed in terms of your own. Parents marriage and how that both informed and perhaps what your goal was and maybe pieces that you didn’t want to emulate. Is, is that?

Emilie: Yeah. And something that’s coming up, as you were saying was with that reverence for the feminine and that harmony for both. ‘cause both are so needed. And I think it’s important to say that a surrendered wife isn’t a silent wife. It doesn’t mean that she doesn’t have a voice or a place to speak and lead in her own way.

It’s just. It’s just done in a different way through not pushing or striving or there’s, there’s no need to control. And it’s allowing that place of allowing and allowing does come through trust. And I love the piece you bring on safety, because that is what a woman unconsciously is always asking herself, is this safe or am I safe?

So she won’t be able to open intimately or emotionally if she doesn’t feel like it’s safe, safe to, and there’s relationships where the man isn’t able to hold the multi-dimensionality of the woman and. Most men weren’t modeled that. Like, how do you hold a whole woman in all of her sides and without judgment, you know, they weren’t taught that.

And unless they’re curious about it or being modeled that, or have good mentors or have God’s grace like on them, showing them, that might be tricky. And as a wife, you can, you can support your husband in, in the process of it by simply asking sometimes, hey, like this is one of those moments where I feel like I have a storm in me and I just want to unleash.

Like, are you able to hold that for me right now? Like, are you able to ground yourself and hold, hold me in this. You can ask and give it a little preface before. Your man is able to do all of that. ‘cause it’s a learning process. And it’s a learning process for you to let go and, and trust and feel safe.

And it makes sense if you don’t, if you’re holding onto past wounds or if you’re waiting for him to change. And that’s why, again, when you’re anchored in God, first God guides you.

Joan: Mm-hmm.

Emilie: God guides you in all that you do. And yeah, to speak on the modeling that I had from my parents that are going on 52 years of marriage in May, so it was a huge blessing for me to witness their love and continue to witness their love. And God was very much at the center of their marriage. Um, my parents are Christian and I grew up going to many different types of churches because we moved a lot.

They were teachers and yeah, we weren’t in the military or anything, just teachers, but we, uh, we’re from Quebec, Eastern Canada and there was a lot more work opportunity in the West Coast where I live now. So, but then they would miss family, so we would often go back and forth and, um, yeah, and seeing them in their faith has had a profound impact on me because in all that they’ve gone through, when you have God at the center, it, it really does give you a rooted foundation that nothing else does because again, God is your guidance and there’s nothing greater that can give you advice or wisdom or grace.

Or that mercy and that compassion. And when we talk about relationships, how many times do we choose to let go and forgive? And often our hearts get hardened and, and they don’t want to. And that’s when we need God’s mercy and the Holy Spirit to work through us so that we can allow that to dissolve and allow more space for us to be more present in our true nature of love.

Joan: Hmm. So well said. Hmm. So I’m remembering, I don’t know. I had, uh, an epiphany at some point in the last few years where I too was raised, um, with parents who were very devout. And I, I was raised in the Catholic church, but the, um. First command, the first commandment, as, as I, as I remember it, the I am the Lord your God.

You know, you will not have false gods before me. Hmm. And I was having an epiphany about that, that that was not so much like a command admonition, you know, in a, kind of, in a scolding way. But I, I really felt the truth of God, kind of saying, you know, it’s just easier. Like, it’s just easier if you put me first.

It just is, you know, like if you don’t put other people’s opinions or your bank account or you know, any of the things you want, you might wanna make a God, um. To just like stick with me. I’ve got you covered.

Emilie: Yeah. I love that epiphany. It’s so profound and true, and that is what many of us, myself included, get lost in these worldly things of chasing.

And what about here and there? And even in our relationship, we lose ourselves. Or now it’s all about him. And not from a place of like true devotion, but from a place of like, I need to keep him and hold onto him, so I’m just going to do whatever he needs. And, and then you lose yourself along the way, and that’s not what God has planned for you.

He wants you to shine and be restored through his love and. It’s taking me on a whole circle to come back to that deeper understanding of putting your will down in true surrender and trusting that his will, his plan is better than you’ll ever, ever be, even close, even come close to possibly creating.

And that’s, I feel like that, that this is what this year is for. Hmm. This is what I’m gonna be bringing in my offering of prayer will be really based on creation. One of the foundations of union is the pillar of creation. And how do you create, and what is it based on? How do we know that it’s in alignment or not?

And to create in a way that God, God has prepared us. God needs to prepare us from within first so that we are renewed and purified and sanctified so that we can actually feel Him and listen and step into the unknown with that deeper, unwavering faith versus like always tethering in the, in the fear and the, and the doubt and distrust, which is all part of your walk in faith.

There’s no like, oh no, now this is bad and, and now I’m failing, right? God just wants us to be willing, but in that willingness comes obedience and that’s the big piece that I definitely rebelled from when I was young. I’m like. This is a lot of rules and God seems angry and scary and mad all the time, so I’m just gonna go over here and find my freedom in all of these other things.

Which big surprise, the freedom wasn’t there.

Joan: Hmm. Yes. And I, I know for me personally, it does like, it, it does keep coming back to that sense of safety and trust and mm-hmm. And really the experience of, of the love. Mm-hmm. Because I, I too was raised with a lot of rules and dogma. Mm-hmm. And it was having to do certain things to earn, like to,

Emilie: yeah.

Joan: To earn the worthiness of God’s love or to earn being provided for in those ways. And to, to have that just be the bottom line foundation. And again, going back to that sense of you can be curious, you can explore, you have free will, and in the end it really is just going to be easier, you know, it’s just going to be easier, it’s going to be more fulfilling, more joyful.

It just is. But go ahead. If you need, you know, go ahead if you need to and explore all the other options.

Emilie: I love that God, like, wants to be chosen.

Joan: Mm-hmm.

Emilie: Isn’t that interesting? Because as women we want to be chosen and God just lets us roam and be free and choose Him wholeheartedly because, or else that’s not real love. And when we did, I, when we did grow up with the, well, if you don’t believe this, then and, and then it’s so conditional.

And I feel like that really goes against the true teachings of, of Jesus. And a lot of it was distorted, but I trust that whatever path our past religious understanding or or lack of religion completely, whatever is gifted in our lives is to form us in our own unique path. And probably if I hadn’t experienced all of those other things, I wouldn’t be here talking today about the gift of Divine Union and putting God at the center, because I wouldn’t know from experience the difference of being in a relationship where God is like, not even in the back, but like not even in the picture. Compared to, oh, I’m having this conflict, or I feel misunderstood, or there’s this fear and I’m gonna bring it to God and lay it at his feet.

And when you do that, like you are so held, you know that He’s listening even if you don’t see results right away. But there’s, he’s always listening. You can, you can see it. And the people that he brings or. Often I pray, and then like I, I’ve, my husband opens his heart. I’m like, wow, God, that was so fast.

Like he was just amazing. God worked through him, or he’ll be on the phone , and we connect again. So again, that prayer for our hearts to be able to connect, like God has that capacity to speak through us and then bring us back to that place of, of deeper communion.

Joan: Hmm. So tell us about the offering that you have coming up.

I know this is the second iteration of it.

Emilie: Yeah. This is called Renewal because of what I’m currently going through. And when I, when I prayed on it, God was like, renewal, you’re not the only one who needs this. So it’s 21 Days of Prayer for women in an online sanctuary that we, we co-create. We’re on an app, we get to know each other.

We lay prayer every day together. Sometimes women are like, oh no, that’s too much every day. But I, I did run it in the fall and women really said that it added to their day. Like, it just fueled them because when you see prayer as a way of life, it’s, it’s not something well, I need to do again with the, I need, but it’s more of this natural way of living and communicating with God and strengthening and growing your relationship with, with God.

So this theme is on renewal. And praying for your future beloved or current union by renewing our own mind and soul and heart because God works through us in our union first and foremost. So even if you’re in a place where like, I don’t know if I’m even like ready for a beloved right now, you are welcome to just like pray for your whole being, to prepare yourself and to connect to God in a deeper way.

If you’re dating and unsure or dating and things are going great, come and lay prayer for yourself and your beloved. And if you’re married and it’s been years and there’s all these old patterns that really are annoying you, that just like you, you want your partner to change so much, but he’s not, come and pray for your own peace and renewal.

Trusting that God will connect with your beloved through you. The closer we are to God as women, the closer that door opens for our, our beloved, even if they’re closed off to God or whatever their relationship is, that union allows the door to be opened through us through that covenant under marriage.

So whatever your husband’s going through, you can be the greatest support and anchor by being in communion with God through prayer and this devotional living. So yeah, it’s gonna be 21 days, so you pray for 21 days because this is strengthening our ability to come to God first with everything, and there’s going to be an opening ceremony on the eighth.

Where we get to just introduce ourselves 8th of February. Okay. And there’ll be two sessions where I’ll expand more on the pillar of creation or whatever God puts on my heart as we move through this. It’s, I see it as a 21 day ceremony of really walking in service and devotional love through the, the gift of prayer.

And then it will close on February 28th with closing ceremony, just again, sharing what’s on your heart, what you’re moving through. And it’s this space created for sisters to be held and seen and witnessed in their prayer. ‘cause when we pray together, it really amplifies our voices. It amplifies the presence of, of God and knowing that we have gathered together that to be heard, to be witnessed in devotion.

So it’s completely free. So you, I, I look forward to welcoming any of you that this pulls on your heart strings and, or if you’re just curious. And it is my walk since the last one, since the last 21 days of prayer, I have been like deepening my own relationship with, with Jesus. So going more into scripture.

So this time around I will be sharing more scripture and whatever God puts on my heart. So just know that that will be present, but it’s open to, to absolutely all women that feel that, that feel like they could gain anything from this sisterhood. And that want to be inspired, motivated, held, accountable.

Joan: Mm-hmm.

Emilie: And it’s also happening right as the fire horse ear is starting. That was the other memo I had from God. ‘cause again, my life, like I’ll be moving in and does it really make sense to facilitate this? And apparently, yes. So anchoring in prayer when we’re creating the momentum of this year feels like the most important thing because again, who you’re anchored in matters the most.

Your alignment matters the most. So what are we doing? We’re asking God to renew us from the inside out, out to purify us, to sanctify us, to like twist us and just get all this stuff out. So this is what we’ll be doing for 21 days.

Joan: Beautiful. And is it just for women who either are in relationship with a man or seeking a relationship with a man, or is it for women who are partnered with women or

Emilie: what?

Great question. It can be, it’s open to all women. If you’re in a same sex union, you are so welcome. Just know that when I speak about relationships, I usually speak on the man and women. So I, that’s the language I use because I’m talking about that, that union. But a lot of the lessons and the wisdom shared can be absolutely used in a same sex relationship.

So absolutely. If you wanna pray for your partner, it’s just all women. Yes, all women are welcome.

Joan: Beautiful, beautiful. And I will put in the show notes, how people can register for that. Yeah. And is it through your website or tell me if people want to follow you, we’ll put all that in the show notes, but is there anything you want, you want

Emilie: Yeah, you can

Joan: about,

Emilie: I’m most active on, on Instagram to follow at Emilie Atwall.

And Emilie is spelled the French, French way, LIE at the end. And to register for the 21 days of devotional prayer, it’s a landing page. So we’ll have that link for you. You just sign up and then you will get access.

Joan: Perfect. Perfect. So as we bring this to a close, is there anything else that’s on your heart that feels important to share with our listeners?

Emilie: Hmm.

What’s coming through is God has never forgotten you. Yeah. Whatever you’re walking through and whether you’re waiting for your beloved and it feels like a very long, dry season, God hasn’t forgotten you and is working through you and is preparing you in this very moment, and if you’re in union and you feel like God has abandoned you, you’re not seeing change know that he is always working through your circumstances and your heart. Yeah. And so to, to come into that heart posture of like, God, I am ready and willing to receive you in a bigger way today. Like that’s a small thing that we can do daily and just open my eyes, wipe them clean. I want to hear you coming back to the senses of how to be in presence with God, knowing that it really doesn’t have to be complicated.

We don’t have to go seeking in a million different things, and we can just come back to our senses, come back to the word of God and just know that God has never forgotten you and we’ll never forget you as you are his precious, beloved daughter, and that in this identity, this is where you have the greatest authority.

This is where fear dissolves. This is where you get to dance with life when you know the truth of who you are.

Joan: And this could open up a lengthy conversation, but I, I just feel compelled to name, since I’m aware of it, people may be aware of it. And I know we have a, a mutual mentor and friend who speaks to this, just the pronouns of God, and

Emilie: mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Joan: You referring to God, as a Him and

Emilie: mm-hmm.

Joan: Again, just in my own experience like that, the feminine face of God and the masculine face of God, and just checking in with you on all of that. Just your lens, your

Emilie: My lens.

Joan: Mm-hmm.

Emilie: We can bring it back to the beginning where there’s this posture of walking as God’s bride.

Joan: Hmm. Okay.

Emilie: And from this place, that is why I refer to God as Him mostly.

Mm-hmm.

Holy Father who directs me. But I absolutely honor the Holy Mother, the Feminine as well. But when I’m walking as the bride and as the daughter, it’s like, yeah, He’s got me, but it doesn’t erase the Feminine because they’re together. And, and of course it’s how we speak in this English language that we even need genders because God is beyond gender after all, is what I really believe.

But I used to kind of go in between and call her, Her. When I speak of Holy Mother more in that, that beautiful, nurturing, supportive silence. I see it as like the, the darker womb that we’ve all come out of, that God knitted us in.

Joan: Mm-hmm.

Emilie: She’s present too. And I’m at a place where, yeah, there’s just no fear in naming God, God, and seeing Him and his, because I feel, I feel like I belong as His daughter. And it, it’s Holy Mother’s daughter too but there’s a different connection from that loving father presence. And walking as his bride, first and foremost, especially when we talk about relationships, right? When you already belong to God as his bride, you’re going to be entering your own union from a very different place than if you’re not.

Joan: Mm-hmm. Thank you. Thank you for articulating that. We still exist in a world where there’s just reactivity to words, and so I have found like the more information and understanding we have mm-hmm. Of what someone means when they use a specific word, the better. You know, it just builds bridges as opposed to projections perhaps of, of who someone is or what, what they mean when they

say, yeah.

Emilie: I love that the idea of building bridges through deeper understanding and knowledge.

Joan: Yes, yes.

Yeah.

And words, words are so powerful and we all have our own orientation to them. So to, to really be able to articulate in a way. Um, and I feel like there’s so much more we could unpack together

Yeah.

At, at some point in the future.

Mm-hmm.

But I just want to, in a way, breathe in the transmission

mm-hmm.

Of what you have brought. And even each time you use the words like the, the bride of God, that in and of itself talking about words and the potency, like the energy of that. And qualitatively to be both and both the daughter

mm-hmm.

and the bride of the Divine, and to just breathe that in or take in the possibility of that feels

Yeah

like something you’re bringing this world and the women of this world. So

Yeah. Because the last thing God ever wants for us is for us to be erased.

Hmm.

Emilie: Like, that is not truth.

Joan: Mm-hmm.

Emilie: So wherever you feel that, and, and I always encourage everyone to, to look, look into that reactivity or like that projection because it’s when we’re not at at peace with what others are bringing that’s saying something about, well, what, what do I believe and what do I need to be okay? And, and bringing that curiosity in the lens of a gift again and again.

And that’s why I love the, the building bridges through deeper knowledge and asking questions and the importance of bringing in curiosity and more nuance to black and white thinking helps us to open the door to have these bigger conversations and, and deepen our understanding and what’s the, the point of it all right?

Is to connect and to being communion and to experience God in, in this life through our daily living.

Joan: Mm-hmm. Yes. So thank you.

Emilie: Thank you so much Joan.

Joan: My delight to have

Emilie: I could grab another cup, like it’s just have more chai

Joan: have the marathon. The marathon chat.

Emilie: Yeah.

Joan: Yeah. So I want to encourage people to check out, Emilie both on Instagram and her 21 Days of Prayer, the Renewal program.

And if you’re listening to this way beyond that, we’ll have her link to Instagram and whatever new is happening down the road will, will be accessible, I’m sure through that.

Emilie: Yes. In end of April, I’ll be offering my Relationship Recalibration program, which is one-on-one with women.

So if you’re listening and that’s around the corner, yeah, just drop in my DM’s and let’s connect to create that foundation so you can be in that relationship that feels peaceful and loving and fulfilled in your beloved daughter identity, first and foremost.

Joan: Hmm? Yes. Yes, yes. So, I also wanna thank you, our dear listener, for spending this time with us today, and I want to remind you that whether you’re making ripples in your life or big ass waves, that you are love and you are loved.

Emilie: Hmm. Thank you so much for this time. Thank you for the space and yeah, thank you to all the listeners for bringing your ears and heart here. And this was such a gift of a conversation. Thank you so much.

Joan: Absolutely. Until next time.

00:00 Welcome to The Crone Codes

00:42 Navigating the In-Between State of 2026

02:23 Toolkit for Challenging Times

03:06 Dealing with Shock

05:10 Reorienting After Shock

07:30 The Importance of Support

11:17 Meditation for Grounding

14:31 Connecting with Your Soul

20:04 Final Thoughts and Blessings

Transcript

Joan: Hello, and welcome back to the Crone Codes. I’m your host, the Creator and resident crone Joan Advent. As we’re making our way into 2026 we’re in this in-between state, between the snake year, the transmutation, the shedding, all that that’s leaving, and the energy of the horse and the energy of the fire and all that that is bringing in.

So we’re in that in-between place, and what I’m guided to share today is really a toolkit for these times. Because my sense of both what we’re living through at the moment and where we are headed.

Certainly from my own experience and my connection with the world around me is this is going to be a very dynamic year. And I think it’s safe to say we are in the thick of it. You just cannot look around and not see someone who is in the thick of it, in the thick of, um, loss in the thick of intense initiations, making unexpected transitions in life, crises, shocks, whether it’s health, whether it’s financial, global, geopolitical, just the whole host of things.

And what I want to offer is a toolkit and a set of reminders for how we can meet this in our most centered, empowered, and humane way. So I wanna talk to you first, and again, this is meant to be a toolkit for you, or if you are in relationship to somebody who is in the thick of it, just wanna offer this as a resource for you.

So the first thing I wanna talk about is shock. And how to treat shock. How to be with shock. How to meet shock, because we are at a time when shocking things are occurring. If not in our own life, then in the lives of those we care about or those who are in our community.

And I just wanna remind us that the way that shock is treated is by meeting it with a sense of calm. If a body were to go into shock, we would want to meet it with calm. We would want to provide warmth, like literal warmth, like blankets, or anything that will help keep someone warm. So warm tea, warm blankets, just that sense of warmth and cozy.

The other important factor is to return to the breath. Help whoever is experiencing the shock recalibrate and return to a slow and steady breath. A slow and steady breath. And the last piece is touch, human touch. So when someone is in shock whether it’s giving them our hand, just placing our hand upon them, like skin to skin, just the reminder that we are in a body.

And after we treat the initial shock, we wanna reorient to time and to space. We wanna give someone the chance to reorient to where they are.

In this moment. So whether it’s in their environment, where they are in this moment in their lives, because when we experience shock, it is a bit like an explosion happening in our lives or within us or physically. And as the shock starts to subside, then we begin to recognize and realize and orient like, oh yes, this is where I am.

This is what I was doing, or this is what, this is what’s happening in my life right now. So just reorienting to that sense of place of time. Again, of connection.

And as we orient to space and time, we are brought back to what was my original intent? What was my purpose? Where was I headed? what was my goal? What was I moving towards? What was I living into? What was the intent, the through line moving through our lives at the time that the shock occurred? So we, we tune back into what is that original intent and does it still apply given what has occurred?

Is this still the direction I’m meant to be moving in? Or am I being called to refine that, to recalibrate that, to begin to move in a new direction given what has occurred that created the shock in our lives.

And the final piece that I wanna name, which is key throughout this whole arc, this whole kind of arc of steps we’ll say is the remembrance of the necessity of support. We can’t minister ourselves fully when we are in shock. When we are in shock, or when we are beginning to reorient back to life. We need support.

We need the support of others who can hold us, who can be present with us. And if we are in that role for others, just knowing that when someone has gone through a shocking experience, they need our presence, they need our support. They need our, just being with them in the simplest ways, providing food, providing connection, humor, kindness, just the basics of life.

We also need the support of the earth, the natural world, the reorienting to being a part of nature. We exist on a planet, on an earth. We have trees around us. Birds, animals, perhaps pets. It’s like just beginning to reorient to that aspect of the world around us and remember that we are a part of that.

And last, but certainly not least, we need spiritual support at those times. We need the support of our Creator that I call Holy Mother. Holy Father God. You may call your Creator something else. Higher power. Great mystery. Or even Life.

But remembering again that we are embedded in a larger whole. We are a part of something bigger than us that is holding us, and that can hold shocking experiences that can provide a North Star light to guide us out of the darkness or out of the trauma, or out of the turmoil or the chaos of any given moment.

We can orient to that. And I have once heard it described almost like the sign of the cross where that vertical axis is that spiritual connection, to the Divine. To the holy both within us, all around us, certainly within the earth, and then that horizontal axis of the cross, is our person to person connection that we need.

So I wanna close this episode with a meditation

to support you. To support us whenever we need

to anchor again. I want to offer this meditation.

So I wanna begin by inviting you to just notice your breath without needing to change anything. Just noticing, and you might observe where you have more constriction within you that’s inhibiting the breath where your breath feels more spacious.

And as you do this, I wanna invite you to both listen not only to my voice, but listen to what sounds are surrounding you.

Turning up your ears to here.

Whether it’s the hum of the heater,

the wind rustling the bushes and trees outside.

Perhaps even your own breath,

and as you do that, just noticing the air on your skin. And again, recognizing that you exist within this time and space, you were present and enveloped in this space. Whether it’s in your room, may even be in your car.

Or you may be outside. Just knowing that you exist within this time and place. You are placed here.

And from a soul perspective, this is an intentional placement. Your soul has chosen to be here. In this moment.

With all that’s occurring in your life, with all that’s occurring in the lives of loved ones and those around you, your soul has said, this is where I want to be.

Begin to notice the presence of that soul within you. What form does it take? Is there

a way that you experience it? You may feel it kinesthetically,

you may see a vision. For me, it feels like a small golden orb somewhere in the center of my heart.

It may also be in the form of a sound or just a voice or a knowing.

It’s reconnecting that tether to your soul. That was knit together, that was created, that was formed by the Creator of all life to be present in a particular place and time. Particular set of life circumstances at this time in our human history at this time as the drama of life unfolds.

So for now, just resting with that. Knowing that this is purposeful.

As you do this, I invite you to consider what do you need? What do you need from this connection with your soul that has its direct access to the Divine, to your Creator? Like, what do you need in this moment? Whether it’s to feel strengthened, empowered, supported, cared for, tended, loved.

What is it you need?

Just tuning in and seeing what is it that you need right now just to get you to the next step. Not to solve it all, because we are in this very dynamic, changeable fluid time. Things are falling away and shifting very rapidly. So what do you need just for this next step? And how can you invite that in right now and today?

When you feel that sense of clarity, when you feel that sense of direction or even receiving, having received what you most need, I want you to return to your breath and return to your awareness of this body, this breath, and this body. This body is your vehicle for this time, for this life, for this date with Destiny.

Consciously place your hands on some part of your body, perhaps your heart or your womb space, just making contact as we are here in this 3D experience. You are the sacred in a human form. Remembering the contact that we need to be present to be here in our humanity.

And , as you make this contact with your own flesh and blood just bringing some blessing to this body through your own hands.

Bringing some blessing through the touch. These hands that are extensions of your heart and your heart line. Blessing your body and then bringing your hands if you’re able to, down to the floor, down to the earth. Just consciously connecting with that sense of ground.

And with that, seeing if you can feel a yes to being here in a more conscious and full way.

And then when you feel ready, I invite you to breathe in some fresh air and exhale out anything that needs releasing.

So I wanna thank you for joining me today. I want to offer from my heart to yours, just my deepest wishes for your health, your wellbeing, your centeredness, your joy.

And while today’s episode really was designed to be a resource for when things are feeling more challenging or just downright impossible, knowing that as we move through that, that the joy, the fulfillment, the satisfaction lives on the other side. And sometimes are two sides of that same coin, just the magnitude of this human experience.

So offering you my love and appreciation and the reminder as I’ll always, that whether you’re making ripples in your life or big ass waves that you are loved and you are love.

02:08 Laurie’s Biography and Accomplishments

05:45 Understanding Energetic Coding

11:12 Laurie’s Journey to Energy Literacy

24:49 The Concept of Unconditional Remembrance

28:28 The Power of Making Bold Statements

30:17 Embodied Experience and Wisdom

32:01 The Book as a Doorway

32:31 Letting go of how others respond

33:43 Our Roles and Scripts as Women

34:25 Navigating the Unknown

36:34 The wild idea we dare not do

39:10 What innovation & creativity teach us about our ideas

40:34 The active dimension in Meditation

43:45 Understanding Love as a Frequency

Laurie Seymour, M.A.

Website: https://thebacainstitute.com/

Quantum Connection Quiz: https://thebacainstitute.com/quantum-connection-quiz/

Transcript

Joan: Welcome back to the Crone Codes. I am your host, the creator and resident Crone Joan Advent, and I am so honored and really delighted to share with you today my beautiful friend and wise sister Laurie Seymour. Welcome, Laurie.

Laurie: Hmm. Thank you Joan. We are, we have, we have a long history, even though it’s been a long stretch of time too, of not being in each other’s, you know, immediate fields, and I’m, I’m really thrilled to be doing this with you.

It feels like a great opportunity for a deep conversation.

Joan: Absolutely. And you have a new book that’s just come out and I’m, I’m really honored and excited to unpack some of the pieces of that with you. So it feels like a really auspicious time to have you here.

Laurie: Great.

Joan: And I do also want to mention dear listener, that my sweet dog, Molly, is here on my lap, and so she may make herself more known during the course of our interview. She may need to be, moved in the course of our interview.

Laurie: Or we can just feel her unconditional love.

Joan: Yes. Yes. Well, as, as long as it, as long as we can still hear each other.

Laurie: Right. Okay. Deal.

Joan: I’m all for that. So I’m going to begin as I like to do, which is really to offer Laurie’s, biography and accomplishments as a meditation, both for Laurie and for you, the listener. Because I really believe that when we do this, when we receive the truth of someone and who they are and what they have created in their lives it gives us the opportunity to reflect not only on the crone codes or the codes that that person carries, but it can remind us of what we both carry within ourselves and what we aspire to. So I want to invite you, Laurie, and our listeners, if it’s safe for you to close your eyes and to receive the wonder and the beauty of Laurie Seymour.

Laurie is the host of Wisdom Talk Radio International Executive Mentor and certified Master trainer. She is an MA and is the founder and the CEO of the Baca Institute, and she is the newly minted author of Unconditional Remembrance, Your Connection to Source. Over 25 years ago, Laurie was honored to receive the stewardship of a special energetic technology Turaya Touch and Turaya meditation that activates your connection with Source, raising your vibration, and amplifying your ability to create from the infinite field of potential. Laurie is also the creator of the Quantum Connection Process, helping each person she works with to build a program, a business, and a life that expresses your Divine Blueprint, and gives you the financial flow you deserve with the time, health and wellbeing to enjoy it. And she has a quiz called the Quantum Connection Quiz, which you can take for free, and I will be sharing that in the show notes. So these are some of the dimensions of Laurie and I wanna welcome you again.

Laurie: What an experience to have it read from the place of, of being able to really receive it.

Yeah. Thank you.

Joan: You’re welcome. That is. It’s important to me, both for you as my guest, but I think for all of us as human beings, for, for us to have those experiences of reflection and remembrance, as you say.

Laurie: Mm-hmm.

Joan: Yes. And I know before we got on, the recording that we were talking about, the importance of codes and energetic coding. And even for you to maybe articulate some of the codes you’re aware of just from hearing that for yourself and how that, just how that whole concept, how it’s been meaningful for you, how our listeners can perhaps consider that for themselves.

Laurie: I may speak about it differently than you do.

Joan: Yes.

Laurie: Which is great because we’re just adding to the, to the mix and to the pot, so to speak. Um, because everything truly is energy. Everything in in life, everything that is, that is alive has an energetic imprint to it and an energetic coding. And as we, Hmm. As we evolve, as we go through, through life, we’re impacted so much by our, by, by our environment, not just our physical or, our home environment or our work environment, but also the, hmm, the cosmic radiation, the, the sun and what that gives off.

And it. And what’s happening in the entire world. Because we know that we’re part of a universal field. We know that we’re part of this quantum field. And given that we hold within us the kind of, uh, um, hologram of the whole. And it’s so wonderful because now with all the, the research into quantum physics, they have demonstrated that, oh, what happens on the other side of the world does indeed impact us.

So that is a kind of, hmm, foundational statement, if you will. Um, I work with energy in, in everything I do. In the Turaya meditation sessions that I run in the Turaya touch that I both teach and offer in the individual work, and the classes, I do. Really in everything. And, and I think of, in this way that everything gets encoded with the frequencies that are needed in that moment.

So whenever I, I do the Turaya meditation twice a week online and before I begin, I’m always asking about what’s needed that day, what’s needed in that moment. And, and since I’m working with higher consciousness energy symbols I’m aware that I don’t have to Hmm direct those or do anything that’s, personal will related, but to allow the new frequencies, ‘cause it’s, feels like it’s always brand new to come through, to come through those symbols, to come through, to come through my words. And as we’re impacted by what we hear and what we receive that is an encoding, that is a, a way that we’re being impacted by those, those codes so that we can raise our own frequency. So that we can move to a new dimension within ourselves that we are always doing anyway. But someone this morning said the difference between, let’s see if I can remember exactly what he said,

Letting life run you. Or engaging with life.

These are different words, but that that was the sense of it engaging with life and us being the dancing partner.

Joan: Yes.

Laurie: And that it’s not a leading or a following, but a flow.

Joan: Yes, yes. There’s a lot I could say about that, but I recently have been exploring that exact, we’ll say energetic way of holding myself in relationship to life is to, to both meet it

Laurie: yeah

Joan: with full presence. Not be overpowered by it, but also not be like the bull in the China shop.

Laurie: Yeah. Yeah. Um,

Joan: so that, that particular, point of finding that right balance.

Laurie: And it’s, and it’s not a balance that’s ever static.

That’s the, the incredible thing about it is that we are always being moved to, okay, shift here shift there, so that we’re not a victim, which is like life doing to us. And we’re not the, as you just said, the bull in the China shop. Trying to, well, to try and control things, you know, to say, oh, well I want it my way.

Because Yeah. That’s what we’re seeing so much of these days. It doesn’t work.

Joan: Well, it doesn’t work. It doesn’t work. But it’s also to the extent that, as you said, to the extent that we are being impacted and impacting others. Mm-hmm. It’s, it’s like pulling everyone in some ways, I guess, along with us.

Laurie: Yes.

Yes. Mm-hmm. Yes.

Joan: So I know a little bit of your story and I, I don’t know how much we are meant to dive into our story, but. You didn’t always know about these things, right? Mm-hmm. These energies and coding, and I know that you and I shared the history of both having been trained as psychotherapists and.

So how, how does one become we’ll say so energy literate or energetic?

Laurie: You know what I think is funny as I reflect on, on my life now and especially my early life and, and also seeing my daughter because there’s some real similarities. It’s that when I was little, I think I both knew. I knew things that I had no reason to know from this life. And I came in with that, but there was so little support for that.

So little, um, recognition or, um, understanding or in, in fact quite the opposite of a, you know, don’t get too big for your britches and, you know, better settle down kid and at all kinds of messages like that. That set up in me that kind of, I didn’t know what was going on. I really didn’t. And I just thought I, and without going into all of that, that did very much take me into the, the search for what was true.

What was true? What was real? What was, how could I understand myself? How could I understand other people? And, you know, becoming a psychotherapist became a, well, of course, you know, that was, I never had a, oh, I want to be something else. Well, I wanted to be an archeologist. I wanted to be a librarian, but really, truly, I was going to be a psychotherapist one way or another.

Joan: Yes. Solving those mysteries.

Laurie: And the mystery of self, first of all.

Joan: Right? Yeah, exactly. I know one of the things that you mentioned in your book, which I loved, and I, I’m going to get the paraphrasing wrong, but it’s something to the effect of you can’t really be trained as a psychotherapist and not believe that something is was it broken or missing or

Laurie: mm-hmm.

Joan: Flawed in some way or, or hurting.

Laurie: Yeah.

Joan: And I, I know that there’s a lot of emphasis in the world on healing and certainly in many spiritual communities on, healing and our growth work. And, and as someone who has been a long time psychotherapist

Laurie: mm-hmm

Joan: my guess is you’ve seen people who can also kind of keep going with that and going with that and going with that. But, but it sounds like you are suggesting, and your book is suggesting that there, that there is a different way, there’s an easier way, there’s a simpler way.

Laurie: And it’s, it’s, it’s, yes and. Because what I really became aware of is that we can spend our whole lives believing that we need to be healed. And of course, and this is the party line, truly, you’re never done healing. You’re never, you’re never done. There’s always more and that casts a different light. Or it, it, it’s seeing life and seeing oneself through a lens that I don’t feel is particularly helpful or healthful.

Hmm. Now we can, you know, we can, I’ll just briefly contrast that with what people talk about um, spiritually overriding. Mm-hmm. Your, your stuff, your shadow, your whatever. And I’m not talking about that either. So this isn’t about going into bliss and everything’s just fine and everything happens that’s supposed to happen. And that feels almost even more exhausting to, to think of life like that.

Joan: Right. Well, it is suppressing in my experience.

Laurie: Yeah. It doesn’t feel true. It doesn’t, it doesn’t have the ring or the experience of truth. Right. But if we, if we go beyond all of that and go beyond the either or, we, I, I’ve been able to recognize through some very specific experiences in my own life that the more that we allow ourselves to, um, get curious about ourselves, look at what’s unfolding, look at what we’re wanting to create and tap into that creative source, that creative life force within us, then what we’re doing is we’re, we’re focusing our attention on, on the creative expression. And Yeah, the stuff comes up, the doubt, the fear, the, the old situations.

But we’re not going digging for them. So instead of trying to just unearth everything and keep focusing on, well, we gotta get the, we gotta go deeper. We gotta go deeper, we gotta go deeper. Allowing the depth of what is there to, to arise when it does. And to address it from that place of, of such love for ourselves and, and a recognition of of the moreness that is there along with that, the moreness of who we are, the fullness of who we are. And even what, what that was about. Whatever the, the thing is, if there was a thing.

Joan: Right. If there’s, yes. If there’s a painful dynamic or mm-hmm. Painful loop of, uh, belief or what have you, that keeps running.

Laurie: Yeah. To see them as patterns.

Joan: Yes.

Laurie: Not as truth.

Joan: Yes, exactly. And what you shared earlier about the aspects of your, we’ll say innate gifts that you were born with and the way, I think certainly in our culture and most Western culture we are, we are taught to pay less attention to that and more attention to what helps us stay in the fold, so to speak, whatever that fold may be.

It’s in the family.

Laurie: Mm-hmm.

Joan: The culture in the church, in the, you know, the school system, any divergent gifts or what have you it’s like, put that over there.

Laurie: Don’t get too wild.

Joan: Right. But I can see how that would. It does make it hard for us to a, remember the truth of who we are when we’re having to check those things at the door.

Laurie: Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Joan: And, um, it, it just gives us such a partialized view and it’s such a skewed. Such a skewed,

Laurie: and, and we’re always looking outside of ourselves.

And so we never get to really, um, take the inner journey, and really explore what’s possible. We’re always, we’re always trying to fit in, or if we’re, if we’re beyond fitting in and we’re, we’ve, we’re pushing aside the things that, that might rock the boat.

Joan: Right.

Laurie: That might, you know, mean we have to live, wanna live somewhere else, or we wanna do something different.

And oh my goodness, what am I, what’s gonna, how am I gonna pay my mortgage if I do something different? Or, or leave my marriage? Or, or, or, or, but it doesn’t necessarily mean that. We get so afraid of looking at what, what is true that we, we lose out on, on those gifts. We lose out on what our potential is.

Joan: And I’m struck by, because I would say a significant segment of my listeners are women who would be around my age, your age, and maybe a bit younger who are still at a point where they haven’t felt full permission.

Laurie: Yeah.

Joan: To be the fullness of who they are

Laurie: and, and the, the cost of that gets higher and higher and higher.

It doesn’t get easier. It doesn’t diminish it. The cost. The cost is not only personal and this is what I moved to say right now, it’s also. It’s also impactful for our families, for our communities, for our world. Because you, you do come in with a particularly unique you and, and, and a set of codes and a set of, um, capacities, and if that doesn’t have space to unfold, if that doesn’t have space to be brought into the world that symphony that’s being created in the world is missing a note. And another note here, and another note there, and it starts sounding discordant. And that’s what we’re witnessing right now is the discordance that is taking over. Now it, it isn’t. Mm-hmm. It looks that way.

Joan: Yes.

Laurie: But the more we can bring our own fullness out into the world.

We are contributing to the world in a major, major, major way.

Joan: Yes. And is it, is it true that even you write, committing to writing your book and bringing it out like that is, is an example of being willing to do the thing?

Laurie: You know,

Yeah, I guess it is. And here’s something that, um, I just discovered today.

So I, I, I, because this is a nine year, we’re at least when we’re recording this in December, this is a nine year, we’re going to move into a one year, and the, the way that, that these cycles work is in cycles of nine, and then the nine is the completion year. And this, I just went back earlier today to look at when did I start my book?

Because I knew I had started it. I had done this big push and then I set it aside for a long time and it was right as this cycle began.

Joan: Wow.

Laurie: And I didn’t realize it had been that long, but it had,

Joan: Hmm.

Laurie: So here we are in this completion time and, and I feel so much completing in me, um, having completed in me and like I am absolutely being prepared for what’s to come.

And I’m, and I’m, I. I imagine that there are some of your listeners that are feeling that, whether they’re tuning into the nine cycle, a nine year cycle or not, but just because this feels like such a big time of, of preparation, of looking back to realize what has actually been completed and to opening some of those parts of us that we haven’t let have expression.

Joan: Mm, yes. Which can be so. I have found, and, and this, the creation of this podcast is in part, an aspect of that for me.

Laurie: Mm-hmm.

Joan: And it, it can be so both liberating and of course feel edgy at times, but

Laurie: all of it feels edgy.

Joan: That’s true. That’s true. If we’re being honest.

Laurie: If we’re being honest it does feel edgy.

And it is edgy. But would we, I’ll say it to myself, but would we want anything else? I mean, comfort is, is highly overrated.

Joan: You’re right, you’re right. It is. Sometimes it’s helpful to have a moment to catch your breath.

Laurie: Absolutely. I, I’m not, I’m not saying that we don’t need the time out and the rest and the Yeah, absolutely.

‘cause we do, we need to nourish ourselves and feel nourished before we go out on the edge again.

Joan: Yes. And to put in like to have the roots or the tap roots so that we can grow big and big and tall and big and strong. Yes,

Laurie: yes. Yeah. Yeah. It’s not about just taking off and, you know, flying into the cosmos at all.

We need that tap root, as you say.

Joan: Yes. So tell us about Unconditional Remembrance and what that I, I have some clues to what that is, but to, to someone who’s just tuning in. What does it mean?

Laurie: That was for me. I’ll just say to begin with a bold title, A bold statement.

Joan: Mm-hmm.

Laurie: Um, it’s like, no, no, no. I can’t put it out that strongly, that that really was my first response to it.

And then I realized, but yet that is what I am talking about. That when we truly start to look at our lives from this perspective of, through this lens of, of potential and possibility. And recognizing that when we came into life, I think, and this is by think, by design, we forget. We forget where we came from.

We forget that connection with, with Source. We forget that we come from love and that we are love. Then we go through life and the process of living is one, Sometimes it’s one of, you know, burying the remembrance even further and further and further under. But ultimately it’s that process of remembering, remembering.

And what I mean by that, remembering our connection with Source. That that is our original blessing. And there’s nothing that we can do that will remove that. However, we have free choice, free will about remembering it and, and living with that remembrance. So that’s really what I mean by remembrance is re is remembering and then living from that remembrance, as I remember in more and more moments in my everyday life, that connection.

Really, everything gets changed. Everything is different because I am, I’m carrying a different set of frequencies. I’m tuning into frequencies that are always, you know, new and moving me into what’s next. And that experience of being loved of, of I am okay. I am it. It’s all, it’s all. Okay. It’s all okay.

Yeah. I’ve had all these different experiences. It didn’t feel okay as they were happening. Of course, yes. But now I get to take a different view and a different experience of them. When I get curious, when I, when I start to see that forgetting and remembering, oh, so I came in having to go through that. I came in with having to learn about that and it’s not ‘cause I had to suffer.

It’s because how was I going to, to come to be the teacher that I am now without having gone through that? I, I, you know, I, at 22 I was starting to run groups and I was obnoxious, you know, because, because I knew these some things.

Joan: Hmm.

Laurie: But I didn’t have the life experience that was letting me connect all of those pieces up in my own body.

Joan: Yes, yes.

Hmm.

So there’s a couple of pieces. One that I just wanna name, which to me felt so touching was your willingness to go for the bold statement. And it reminds me of, the poet David Whyte, who I’ve heard speak many times. But he was speaking about when a, a woman says, I know the truth. Like when a man says I know the truth.

Mm-hmm. Like, that’s kind of it just. They can say that without, they frequently say that. We’ll say without much.

Laurie: I know what’s right.

Joan: Yep. Or consideration. But when a woman says, I know truth, or I know the truth, she’s been like to Hell and back, and around the world to really explore it and feel it out and, and say, this kernel is true.

Laurie: Mm-hmm.

Joan: And so that really struck me and was so moving because of course part of what the crone codes and the Crone Essence is about is a willingness to do that. And having lived enough to, to do that, you know, to have, have enough lived experience coupled with your own innate wisdom

mm-hmm.

To stand in that, and not from the ego standpoint, but from being a transmission of wisdom and truth. Hmm. So I just wanna honor and acknowledge that, and celebrate that.

Hmm.

Laurie: I, I, I love those words, how you describe it. And partly it’s, it’s also a, it’s having the embodied experience of that and not just the information. The information, it only takes us so far. I mean, it was one of the things that was really important to me in the writing of this book that, that the codes in the way that I think of them, this book is really embedded with those codes and embedded with those frequencies.

And when we experience something energetically, then we get to decode it in our own life. Like, what does that mean? How can I live it? Um, what do I need to know about it? It, we get to have all of those kind of, curiosity moments, curiosity questions, but the experience of it is there in the body.

Joan: Yes. And your book, I will attest to your book.

Is, it does carry that resonance. It does reading, it does transport the reader. It’s, it’s not just an exchange of cognitive ideas.

Laurie: Mm-hmm.

Joan: And it does speak to the power of language to hold codes. Mm-hmm. As, as you say, which, whether it’s the spoken word or the written word. Mm-hmm. Um, it’s very clear. That what you’re bringing through, through your book,

Laurie: it that delights me to hear Joan.

It really does.

Yeah. Thank you.

Joan: I’m so glad. You’re welcome. The book is like a, it’s like a doorway, you know? It’s, it’s not just, again, cognitive ideas. Mm-hmm. It is like a doorway to that remembrance. Yeah. ‘

Laurie: Cause that’s what I believe we all are wanting. And we all have the capacity for. Some people in their personal will because it’s just so strong they won’t ever go for it.

Right. And that’s okay. I mean, I’ve had to surrender to that in sometimes the people that are closest to me who it’s like, Nope, nope, nope. And dig in heels and this is how it is. And sometimes my heart aches, but then I just have to surrender to that too. And it’s like, no, I can’t control any of that. And I, nor do I want to, I don’t wanna take on their karma.

Joan: No. And how, how long have we spent so long trying to make it better for others or lighten their load. Right.

Laurie: And especially dare I say, as mothers, oh, you know, that’s a huge learning and um, I can’t say it’s a lesson that I’ve learned. But I get to see it. I get to see it, and it’s like, oh, oh, there that is again.

But then I can be gentle with myself and, and just recognize and say, oops, for a moment, I forgot who I am.

Joan: Yes, yes. Oh, thank you for that. Yes. Because it’s, we have these roles that we play in this life.

Laurie: Mm-hmm.

Joan: Whether it’s mother or wife, or. Even daughter.

Laurie: Mm mm-hmm. Best friend.

Joan: Right. Best friend or colleague, or whatever the case may be.

Laurie: Mm-hmm.

Joan: And it can be easy to get caught up in the belief that that’s who we are.

Laurie: Right.

Joan: And all the scripts that go with those roles and

Laurie: Exactly. And, and then we set up these expectations of ourselves that we, that this is how we’re supposed to be. Oh, I got it. I got it. I got who I am. Well, I can never just get who I am because as soon as I do, as soon as I have that feeling, what happens is I move right into the, the next level.

Joan: Mm-hmm.

Laurie: And then I’m there in the unknown, and all I wanna do is cry because I feel myself in the void and it really is a void. I don’t have, the markers aren’t familiar anymore, and so I’ve, I’ve actually traversed, I’ve gone through the doorway and I’m in new territory.

And as I look around, it’s like, whoa. Um, sometimes the one way, well, and one of the ways that I know that that’s what’s happening is that feeling of all I wanna do is just cry because it’s, and it’s not, I’m not sad and I’m, I’m not really empty. Mm-hmm. But it, I feel myself in the void. And so it, it, it’s just, it’s just the way it expresses in me and.

Yeah. When we finish something, when we’ve gone through something, there needs to be that time of, of fertile emptiness, Really.

Joan: Yes.

Right. Yes, and here in the northern hemisphere, we’re heading into the winter, which is that, yeah. That latent.

Laurie: Mm-hmm, exactly.

Joan: Fertile darkness that time. Which this, this will be coming out, just after the new year, so we will have just passed through.

Laurie: Wonderful. The solstice

and yeah.

Joan: But we’re recording it on this end of it.

Laurie: But it’s all part of it. And, and the, the wonderful thing coming into this one year, we were talking about this before we started mm-hmm. Uh, this recording is that it’s a very, very potent time. And it’s a useful time as you’re listening to this today, whenever this is

Joan: mm-hmm.

Laurie: Consider what the seeds are that you’re wishing to plant in this new nine year cycle.

Joan: Mm.

Laurie: You know, what is it that you most want to do in your life? What’s the kinda wild and crazy thing that is, there is a kind of little idea, but you dare not quite do? What if you were to step into that? And experiment? It’s the, it’s the perfect time to start to bring that into being.

Joan: Mm-hmm.

Yes. I love that welcoming. It’s, it’s actually reminding me of, um, when I was 39 and I was feeling the, the urge for motherhood where, where previously it, it hadn’t been quite like that. And

Laurie: mm-hmm.

Joan: It was that thing. And interestingly, I, I had had, ‘cause being self-employed as a psychotherapist, I didn’t have traditional insurance.

Laurie: Right.

Joan: I had had maternity insurance, like for eons and let go. And then all of a sudden it was like, motherhood is calling me. And that was the thing. And, and now of course my daughter is 21. Um. But just the dimensions that, that opened within me, and certainly in my whole life, the trajectory of life and how it changes when we are willing to say yes.

Laurie: Mm-hmm.

Joan: And step onto that edge.

Laurie: Yes. And I love that, you know, it is, it is a saying yes. Because we don’t have to. You know, and sometimes we are. I don’t know if people will recognize or, or, or, or find a, a familiarity to this. There, there are ideas that come to you and you say, oh, whoa, that’s too big.

Sometimes there’s ideas that come to me that I, that I start questioning. Not in the doubtful way, but in the, you know, is this the right timing? Sometimes there are ideas not for now, and the, they’re ideas for, you know, kind of down the road. And sometimes they’re not even ideas for me, they’re ideas for someone else.

‘cause I, um, people do tap into those things and, and people have probably also had the experience where, um, you’ve had this brilliant idea for something and you don’t act on it. And suddenly someone on the other side of the world just. Wait, wait a minute, they, they took my idea.

Joan: Yes.

Laurie: And I’ve come to understand that in researching innovation and creativity, that ideas are floating out there.

And if they come to you, they’re coming to you for a reason. And if you don’t act on it, they’re not only coming to you and someone else is going to, you know, take it and run with it.

Joan: Right. It’s, it’s like something that’s wanting to be born into this world.

Laurie: Exactly.

Joan: And they’re gonna find the willing parent or vehicle or steward.

Laurie: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And so action is really needed. We cannot just be passive in this.

Joan: Yes.

Laurie: I, I think about, you and I both, I think, use the word receiving and the importance of being in that state of receiving, but that’s not a passive state.

Joan: No, no. In fact, I just did an episode about, in part I was sharing the, what they’ve learned about conception and how the egg actually chooses and brings in the sperm that it’s,

Laurie: Wow,

Joan: it’s not, that it’s overtaken or, um, oh.

That it, that it just receives, but it is this active process.

Laurie: Yeah. Yeah.

Joan: Mind blown.

Laurie: So I, I talk about, um Turaya meditation as, as an active form of meditation. And I, I’ve had people just go, you know, what are you talking about? Or What does that mean? Or, because people like to think of meditation as we are just being in the quiet, and yes we are.

We are being in the quiet. That is an essential part of meditation. And if you’re in an active state of receiving, you get to receive what the energies are bringing to you and engage with them and, and, and relate with them. See what’s next. You know, ask the questions then once you’ve received that. Be, be the guardian of that light.

Joan: Yes.

Laurie: The active guardian. How is this wanting to be made manifest?

Joan: Yes. Which is, I am, my sense is that there is a certain degree of maturity required for that. Like, it, it’s not a, um, it’s not just a passive consumer or recipient.

Laurie: Right.

Joan: That there is that capacity to, again, whether it’s to say yes or to

cultivate within us what needs to be cultivated in order to bring it through.

Laurie: It’s also not, and I feel moved to, to bring this contrast in.

Joan: Mm-hmm.

Laurie: It’s, it’s not a, a push, push push.

Joan: Mm-hmm.

Laurie: Because that’s, you know, it’s like our ego likes to push and our ego likes to, you know, think we’re in charge and control and, and have the expectations of how it’s going to go.

So part of being that willing dance partner with life and, and being a willing dance partner with the idea

Joan: mm-hmm.

Laurie: Is saying, what’s new today? How is it wanting to be expressed today? What am I needing to bring in today? And to have that, that openness to experience and that openness to explore, not just in the beginning with the idea, but but all the way through to the, the creation, the manifestation.

‘cause otherwise we’re just pushing.

Joan: Right, right. And then the birthing and the letting go.

Laurie: Mm. Birthing is definitely an active process, right?

There’s nothing passive about it.

Joan: No, although I could go off on a tangent, I’m gonna choose not to do so. So we just have a few more minutes before we wrap this up and I feel compelled just to ask, for a, a truth about love.

Just whatever.

Laurie: Mm-hmm.

Joan: Comes to you.

Laurie: Let me just. I’m gonna see.

It is that truth is a frequency, it’s a vibration. It is not an emotion. And we get caught in the expectation or the thinking that love is an emotion and then when it’s not there, that we’re somehow bereft of being, uh, capable of love or worthy of being loved. But in fact it is a frequency and that when we are able to embrace it and hold it and receive it and allow it to move in us, then we don’t ever step into doubt, because the doubt the doubt comes when we forget. And then as soon as we remember, we remember that, oh, this feeling, this feeling of love is the truth.

Joan: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yes. So it, I have the vision of for me, I have often used the, the words like the river of love, like stepping into the river of love and having that physical sensation of being in a river where you can, you can either be like on the edge with the toe in or you can be in the river, you know, and feel it really moving through.

So that comes back to me when I hear your words.

Yeah.

Laurie: And no matter what, even if we’re just ticking our toe in, the truth is that we’re really right in the center of it and it’s just, you know, our personal will that’s saying, well, no, I’m just gonna stick my toe in.

That we’re always in exactly

that

Joan: state of connection, whether we’re consciously aware of it.

Yeah. Or open to it or not. Yes. Right.

Laurie: That is what I mean.

Joan: Yeah. So tell our listeners how they can find you. I of course, will put things in the show notes, but, but tell them what you would like to share.

Laurie: Sure. Um, I am on all the different social medias. I’m not on TikTok, but I am. Pretty much everywhere else.

Um, and on my website is thebacainstitute.com. That’s BACA and you can find all my blog posts. You can find the Quantum Connection quiz that you mentioned. And, uh, and that’s allowing you to see what your, , your quantum connection archetype is. And that’s gonna give you a whole lot of information about your superpower, your, you know, your learning edge.

Um, so it’s, I think it’s, I think it’s a pretty worthwhile step in one’s own thing. Um, there’s Turaya Meditation that I do twice a week, and you can find out about that, about Turaya Touch classes. This year I’ll be going to Hawaii, to not to Hawaii, to Australia a lot farther, um, to teach and um, and of course, you know, Unconditional Remembrance, Your Connection to Source.

Joan: Right, right here.

There it is. Thank you.

Laurie: Thank you.

Joan: Beautiful. So I wanna thank you, Laurie. I, I feel like we’ve just, we have just touched the, the tip, the very tip and would love to have you back another time. Um, but I wanna thank you for just your presence, for your Yes to being here, but also to writing the book.

Laurie: Yeah. Thank you Joan. I, I, so appreciate how you are in this, in this time and in this way, and, and I, I just feel the, such a, a beautiful flow and I love it. Thank you.

Joan: Thank you. My pleasure. And we wanna thank you dear listener, for being here with us. And I do like, I like to remind my, my listeners, which I think you’ll appreciate that whether they are making ripples in their life, whether you’re making ripples or making big waves in your life, that you are love and you are loved.

Featuring Sarah Songbird, Jade Orth, Kirsty Lee Kaye, Mafalda Moreira, Lacey Amling, Corinne Starr, Cat Wilson, and Rachael Sparks, this compilation captures the diverse experiences and wisdom of women at various life stages.

From heartfelt songs and powerful poems to personal stories of resilience and divine grace, immerse yourself in the richness of these inspiring contributions.

Don't miss out on the contact details and further information about these talented women in the show notes.

00:00 Welcome to The Crone Codes
02:20 Sarah Songbird's Musical Journey
07:03 Jade Orth's Poetic Expression
11:36 Kirsty Lee's Song of Connection
17:36 Mafalda's Shamanic Poetry
23:17 Lacey's Proclamation of Medicine
27:21 Corinne's Song of Unity
34:28 Cat's Reflection on Beauty and Ugliness
48:20 Rachael's Testimony of Grace
53:29 Closing Remarks and Call to Action

Sarah Songbird is a singer and songwriter based in Santa Cruz, California. Her latest album Get Free will be released on January 9th. sarahsongbirdmusic.com
Instagram: @sarahsongbirdmusic

Jade Orth is a devoted wife and mother, creative, and advocate.
Instagram: @jade_orth

Kirsty Lee Kaye (formerly Ayanibu)

Instagram: @ayanibu_

Mafalda Moreira is a space holder with a ritualistic heart and a researcher’s mind. Her book, 'Everyone You Are' is a collection of shamanic poetry and storytelling infused with myth and metaphor. Every One You Are
Instagram: @hallowed_tree_circle

Lacey Amling is a Shamanic Healing practitioner, who walks beside clients as a bridge to their guides and higher self—bringing through messages, clarity, and gentle yet profound soul healing. www.whispersofwillows.com
Instagram:


Corinne Starr—formerly Corinne Gibbons—is an award-winning artist, educator, and environmental activist whose work turns the power of voice into a global force for connection. www.singingisfreedom.com

Cat Wilson is a trauma informed, somatic therapist, ceremonial bodyworker, sensual dance & grief facilitator with 2 decades of experience in embodiment and the healing arts. stillpointbodywork.as.me
Instagram: @hersoftpower


Rachael Sparks is a Weaving the Way Creatrix and Sacred Cartographer.
Instagram: @22cosmicsojourner

Joan invites listeners to a communal Completion Ceremony and to reflect on their own lives to partner with both universal and personal energies to clear and shed past burdens. She emphasizes the importance of self-prioritization, presence, and conscious reflection as we pave the way for a new beginning.

This episode concludes with a guided meditation to remember our innate power to shape our experience and response to all life brings us.

00:00 Welcome to The Crone Codes

01:10 A Personal Story of Crisis and Reflection

03:14 Navigating the Sandwich Generation

06:33 The Significance of the Nine-Year Cycle

13:49 Chinese Astrology and the Year of the Snake

17:40 Completion Ceremony and Membership Invitation

20:47 Guided Meditation for Presence and Reflection

35:14 Closing Thoughts and Gratitude

Join our Crone Codes Bonus Community Completion Ceremony and access the 2025 Completion Guide and growing library of transformational tools, practices and resources curated just for you.

Enroll in our Bonus Content Community for a year and get 2 months free, access 4 Live Ceremonies throughout the year + be entered in a CHANCE TO WIN a free 1:1 consultation with resident crone, Joan Advent.

Schedule a complementary Clarity Call to explore working 1:1 with Joan.

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Transcript

Joan: Hello and welcome to the Crone Codes. I’m your host, the creator and resident Crone, Joan Advent.

So my intention for this episode is to offer a space for reflection to provide a guided practice to be a resource for anyone who is, in need of slowing down, of just coming back to selves, into presencing what might be very powerful challenges or forces that you’re navigating right now.

So nine years ago this summer, I was sitting in an emergency room with my husband and my daughter. We had just gone to have. And after dinner ice cream cone at the local ice cream shop. And as we’re sitting there enjoying that, my husband says to me, I feel like I might be having a heart attack. And so off, we ran to the ER as a family. And we’re sitting there, and I am in the room

just inwardly shaking my head and saying to God, seriously, really, this is really gonna happen right now? Because I was scheduled the next day to hop in the car with my daughter and go and see my mother who was dying. To go and visit her in Ohio, and it, it just felt like too much. It was like, no, no, no, no.

God, I, I reject this. I object. This just is not gonna work for me. It’s just too much.

Long story short, after hours of tests and sitting in the ER we discovered my husband was not having a heart attack.

There was some anxiety or panic that was going on, but ultimately there was no heart attack. So after a very stressful night, I woke up the next morning, packed my daughter up, and we headed off to Ohio to go see my mother.

So I’m sharing this because.

That experience for me is in a nutshell, what, not only that time, that season of my life was, but um, I would say the most intense sandwich generation moments condensed into a two or three year period. Where very quickly my mother received a diagnosis and then within three months had died, and then putting my father into a memory care facility. After her funeral alongside my brother, he and I working together to do that, and all the while traveling back and forth, back and forth from my house in Virginia to Ohio, 13 trips I made in one year.

Most of them driving the 500 miles there and the 500 miles back. And all the while my daughter was descending into her first experiences with depression after being a really bright and lighthearted, vivacious, curious, dynamic girl. Um, so all of this occurring. In that window and doing my best to navigate how to show up, how to be the mother, the daughter, the wife, the hub, really the hub.

Um, and then throwing into the mix, an aunt who never had children or married, who also was needing support later on in that phase. So I’m reflecting on that time in that period because just a few weeks ago, I was recording an interview with my next guest, Laurie Seymour, and when I emerged from my space, my recording space, that feeling washed over me again as.

My husband was going through a very intense, deep personal crisis. My daughter was in town visiting from college and my sweet little dog, and they were, was there eager to be fed and they were all clamoring. For my support, for my presence, for my, for what I could do to assist them with whatever it was that they were needing in that moment.

And I recognized, wow, I haven’t felt this way. I haven’t felt this way in a long time. But because I’m aware that we are in a, Nine year. As far as numerology goes, if you add up all the numbers in 2025, it equals the number nine. And what we know about nine years is they are designed, uh, as years of completion.

They are years when we are completing the last nine year cycle. And so I recognized that part of what was emerging through that very brief taste of what I had been swimming in nine years and eight years and seven years ago, is that this, um, dynamic, this theme, this. Element what, what, however you wanna say, it is coming to a completion in my life that I am being invited to complete the being, uh, the one, and not that I will stop being a wife and a mother.

And, uh, and all the other roles that I play once we cross into next year. But there is a way that, that, that initiation of that period of time for me, that very intensive sandwich generation demands that I was feeling and the the ways that I had to. Both learn to pivot, to rise to the occasion. It, it did activate things within me from a positive standpoint.

It did activate latent skills and abilities and powers to what I would say, uh, partner with life in very important ways to help. Whether it was facilitate, usher in miracles, just bring things into a flow for whoever needed, whatever it was they needed, uh, in the moment that, that those skills were turned on within me as I walked through that initiation.

And there were some elements that were still, we’ll say rooted in old behavior of leaving myself out of the equation. Or not knowing how to bring myself into the equation, as in keep myself on the priority list in a meaningful way. And so as this is coming to a close, I’m recognizing that the call.

Which I often see for many of us as women, particularly when we find ourselves in those sandwich generation moments, is the how to remember to prioritize ourselves, how to remember that we matter in the equation. And sometimes as if you’re, if you’re living through any of these experiences, you know, you just have to do what needs to be done and then take the space for yourself when the opportunity arises, but u h, there are elements we’ll say whether of the savior or the martyr or I don’t know what, just ways that my ego might even get attached to being the go-to get it done person. Um, that, that those, I don’t need those in the same way any longer. That, that this nine year cycle for me has been a deepening in both recognizing, uh, as the Serenity prayer might say, what am I meant to accept?

Or I would say even surrender. Whether it’s to God, to a higher power, to the universe, to others even, and what is mine to take action on? And it is that balance of, of really walking that edge that feels in part like my invitation right now, as well as the invitation. Two, which is a, this is a part of what this past nine years has been for me as well, because I did go through my second Saturn return. And a significant component of that was, uh, returning to, or turning to learning to love myself and honor myself, and tend to myself in ways that I had never done before.

So the whole point is, is that there’s this confluence of threads, this confluence of themes. This period of initiation that as we bring 2025 to a close, the energies are supporting each of us.

But I’m, I’m speaking about my own experience at the moment. They, they are supporting me to complete what this nine year cycle was destined or meant to be about. So I am offering that in part because in my experience, to the extent we are conscious of partnering with these larger forces that are working in our lives, working in the collective life to uh, for example, bring closure or clean up things that need to be cleaned up.

To the extent we’re conscious in doing that, that it enables us to do so more easily without things needing to come to a crisis point to get our attention. And yeah, just to, to move through it more quickly.

So, the other piece I wanna name, which, if you’re on my email list or if you work with me, I know you’ve heard me say this, that we are also in the midst of wrapping up in Chinese astrology, the energies of the wood snake, the yin snake. So. With the Chinese New Year, there was always a new energy that comes in to support us, uh, as humans.

That was, that was the belief, as I understand it, of Chinese astrology. And so this year was all about the snake energy, which is about shedding skins. Shedding what’s no longer needed, as well as transmuting poisons. I don’t mean literal poisons. I am speaking figuratively, metaphorically, although I suppose literally could be true as well.

So we are in an unusual passage of time right now because coupling the snake year with a nine year in numerology amplifies what we are capable of clearing and shedding and laying to rest. We are heading into 2026. If you add up those numbers, they are a one. A one year, which, probably isn’t surprising is a new beginning.

It’s a year of new possibilities and the energies. It’s the fire horse is what is coming with the next Chinese New Year, which is I think it’s the 19th of February. So between now and then, consciously or unconsciously, we are being invited to shed what’s no longer needed. We are being invited to transmute the poisons in our life.

So whether it’s poisonous habits, poisonous beliefs, poisonous dynamics, poisonous attachments, we are being invited to recognize and release those and. It’s intensifying because we’re at the tail end. We’re at the tail end of the snake. We’re at the tail end of the year, and it’s like the everything must go sale.

Like everything must go. So if you’re feeling pressure in your life, if you have experienced an unexpected challenge, a death, a loss, financial upheaval, relational upheaval, health issues that are coming to a head. It could be life’s, your soul’s invitation to, to shed something in your life or to turn your attention or your direction towards what’s happening and not necessarily relate to it just at face value, but to understand that there are deeper roots that you are being invited to extract with this experience. To that end, I am offering a Completion Ceremony on the 30th of the month, in two weeks. And in preparation for that, I’ve created an inventory or a guide to help enable you to consciously look at the themes and the patterns of the last nine years. Both of these components

are an aspect of the Crone’s Code Bonus Membership. So the guide is already posted for anyone who chooses to become a member. And then this ceremony will be the first of four quarterly ceremonies I’ll be offering throughout each year for members of the bonus community. So if that’s something that you’re interested in, there is a link in, the show notes. And I will say the investment for that, which gives you access to the guide, the completion guide.

As well as a growing library of bonus content connected to each of the episodes that are created with the Crone Codes is less than it’s monthly costs. The investment is less than a decent lunch out monthly. It’s $8 a month. And if you choose to invest for a year, you have access to the four ceremonies, which will take place roughly every three months throughout the year, you save $16 and for the next month, you have the possibility of winning a free one-on-one consultation session with me. So that’s for those who register for the membership at the year long commitment level.

So again, whether you choose to do that or not, I want to invite you to use the remainder of this year to slow down, which I know can be challenging the most challenging time of the year to do so, but to really take some time and reflect on what themes are emerging for you. What themes are getting tied up for you. And I wanted to take our closing moments to go into a brief meditation.

I feel compelled to share that, that this week personally, I have been feeling deeply broken open by my own process of completing and reconciling this year.

But my, my heart has been broken open. Yesterday I had the honor of sitting with a dear friend of mine who has just lost her son. And earlier in the day with a beloved neighbor who looks after our sweet Molly when we need assistance. It’s like a surrogate grandparent who has had a fall and now is recovering.

So on and on, there are situations like this. Some are intense, some are not quite as, life or death as these two situations. But what I could feel, what I have felt all week long is this invitation to be present. And for me personally, I don’t know what it’s like for you, but for me, when I have deep feelings that are calling for my attention or calling for my presence, it, it often shows up in my system as busyness.

It’s, it’s like the way that things start to emerge is I start to get very busy. And I start to, um, tighten up or, um, you know, contract or, or my mind, my ego goes into all the things that need to be done and things get really revved up. And I was in that state on Monday and then I spilled my smoothie full of chia seeds all over my space. And it just was the thing that broke me open and um, just brought me to tears frankly, because I had been, as my husband would say, wrapped around my axle. Which means efforting and doing and trying and getting nowhere and getting more and more agitated.

But the truth of the matter was, is that there was, um, a lot of really deep grief within me that was wanting to emerge, and I had been running from it unbeknownst to me, and my smoothie spill was the straw that broke the camel’s back.

Oh. So. I wanted us to pause and just take a few moments and I think the tears do wanna come through because there is like, there is a softening and a tenderizing that comes with grief that comes with emotion with being present to what we’re feeling.

So I wanna just invite you in this moment if you’re able to settle and relax and see if there’s a way that you can open to being tenderized or softened or just bringing your presence here into the moment.

So I want to invite you to just sit back and allow yourself to rest in the support of wherever you’re sitting.

Noticing your breath.

And I want you to become aware of the space surrounding you, the air, and the spaciousness that is surrounding you and recognize that it is empty, but it is also full. It is full of all the things, all the energies, all the un manifest possibilities that are present and being drawn to you in this moment. Whether they’re being drawn to you through what needs to be completed, whether they’re being drawn to you by what your heart is longing for, that the space surrounding you for as, as far out as you can imagine. Like if you can start to bring your conscious awareness to first just the perimeter of your body and then to bring it out a foot or two, and then to expand your awareness to the room that you’re in or the space that you’re in.

And then to allow your awareness to bring your sense of what is surrounding you far above your head, like up into the sky, as high as the trees, as high as the roof, and similarly down deep into the earth.

That you are the center of this vortex that is calling in, that is drawing to you both the reflection of what needs your attention. So what you’re seeing in your life, what you’re experiencing, that that is being drawn to you, like you are the most powerful magnet, the most powerful gravitational force in your universe.

That it is all being drawn to you. As well as the supports that can assist you with, with any and all of the things. All of the pieces that your heart is longing for. All of the, answers to your prayers, the resolutions to your conflicts, like it is all in the space around you. In the non-physical. It’s here, but it is dynamically making its way towards you.

And you are the choice point. You are the one that gets to say yes or no thank you. And the way you do that is by your willingness to be present to what’s here and now. Your willingness to meet what shows up in this moment, and then the next moment. And then the next moment. And to meet it with your presence, with your heart open.

The wisdom of your heart, open and accessible. The place where you can ride the wave, so to speak, or experience emotionally whatever is occurring. This is the invitation. This is what welcomes in more of those answered prayers, more of God’s grace, more of Holy Mother, Holy Father, God’s vision for you. Like the highest vision of what is capable for you to receive and to accomplish or embody or experience in your life.

So I wanna just invite you to imagine whether it is, um like the vision of the toroidal field, which is like that giant donut where we’re in the center of that, of that tube, so to speak. Or whether it is almost like a tornadic um, energy or presence where you are the center and you are either welcoming or rejecting what is coming towards you.

And with that as it comes in, understanding that you can metabolize, you can digest, you can complete, you can integrate the challenges, the conflicts. You can, all of that can be tended. But it must be met with your presence. And you can become more and more and more skillful at doing that. At allowing and partnering with what you are calling in, consciously or unconsciously. Bringing it in to you, tending whatever needs tending.

And then releasing and letting go of whatever needs to be released. So I want you to take a moment and allow yourself to envision again. Whether you are in this toroidal field that is pulling in towards you or this vortex or this tornado, so to speak. And that you can modulate the pace. Like the pace does not need to overpower you, but that you can continue practicing saying yes to meeting whatever it is.

So we’re going to just. Take a few moments of silence and just want you to tune in and see what is showing up that would like your attention within you or in your awareness of your life. What is showing up?

And what does this need from you? What is it calling out from you?

Are there supports that you need to tend or complete this fully?

Is there a way that you’re able to bless it and tend it in this moment?

Would it be useful to call upon the Divine in whatever name you use? To call upon God to assist you with this, either to get clear on what’s needed or to take the steps that are necessary?

And as that becomes clear, we’re going to bring this experience to a close, recognizing that there is some version of this that is occurring nonstop in your life, day to day. Nonstop in each of our lives, day to day. That there is this powerful, attractive capacity that we have. That we are welcoming in consciously or unconsciously, and we are blocking certain things consciously and unconsciously.

And now is an optimal time to bring this into your awareness as we are looking towards completing this year. This powerful passage, which we won’t have in this particular way in the course of our lifetime again.

So my dear listener, I want to thank you. I want to offer you my blessings. I want to offer you my deep gratitude for being here. I wanna invite you to join us for the completion ceremony on Tuesday, December 30th. I wanna invite you to access the Completion guide and to check out the incredible library of bonus content that has been created by my guests and I just for you.

And as we close, I wanna offer you the reminder that whether you are making ripples or big ass waves in your world and in your life, that you are love and you are loved. And frankly, right now, it just seems like that is what it is all about. It is about being love, stepping into love, and sharing our love with others. Until next time.

00:00 Welcome to The Crone Codes

00:38 Introducing Nicola Amadora

04:56 The Feminine Life Power

06:08 The Shambhala Prophecy

09:27 Nicola’s Amazonian Journey

17:46 Training with the Shaman

20:47 The Ultimate Test

28:23 The Awakening of Feminine Life Power

28:58 The Snake’s Initiation

30:19 Integration and Challenges

33:03 The Power of Feminine Life Power

35:02 Embracing and Navigating Life Power

38:41 Healing and Transformation

40:14 Connecting to the Primordial Essence

46:55 Practical Steps to Begin the Journey

51:07 Closing Reflections and Resources

For more from Nicola Amadora, PhD.

Nicolaamadora.com

Feminine Nectar Meditation

Access Nicola’s exclusive Crone Codes Bonus Content: A Taste of Feminine Life Power and subscribe to our paid Crone Codes Bonus Community Membership to go deeper into the Crone Codes with tools, prompts, resources + bonus surprises curated just for you.

Read Joan’s latest Crone Codes revelations, reflections + episode backstories: Joan Advent Substack

Transcript

Joan: Welcome back to the Crone Codes. I’m your host, the creator and resident crone Joan Advent. And today I am honored and delighted to welcome Nicola Amadora. Welcome, Nicola.

Nicola: Thank you so much. I’m delighted to be here with the Crone circle.

Joan: Yes, yes. So I have a special practice that I like to do as I share people’s bio.

So we’re gonna dive into that today, and my invitation, both for you, Nicola, and for our listeners, is to close your eyes and to receive. Is to receive, the wisdom and all of the pieces of what you have accomplished and done as a meditation. And just seeing which of the crone codes are bubbling up or which of the crone codes are being expressed through who the wonder of Nicola is and all that she has

accomplished in this life. So we just take a deep breath. We close our eyes. Nicola Amadora PhD passionately teaches the deep feminine and Mary Magdalene’s way for decades worldwide. She is a seasoned spiritual teacher, a psychologist, an author, a speaker, a mystic, and a woman’s leader, and she has been ushering thousands of women to the holy grail and to embody the feminine in the streets of this world.

Nicola leads Mary Magdalena and deep feminine retreats and courses. She offers a professional spiritual leader training for women, and she is the author of Love Unleashed. Nicola offers a radical, refreshingly real and enlivening way, arising from the bedrock of ancient feminine wisdom and true love, so needed now for the turning of hearts and our world.

Welcome, Nicola.

Nicola: That was beautiful to do it that way. How wonderful. Such a great idea.

Joan: Yes. I find it’s it is a way to reflect on and receive the gift of who you are, of who we are as it’s being reflected to us. So thank you.

Nicola: Thank you.

Joan: Yes, you’re welcome.

Nicola: So, and may I just say it’s also an honoring way of the feminine, the feminine wisdom It goes.

It’s like paving, you know, paving a new way of how we hold that. Instead of it being secondary, being dismissed as it was in the patriarchy.

Joan: Yes, yes.

Nicola: To hold it with honor. That’s beautiful.

Joan: Yes, I would say honor and I would say reverence. And it is a affirmation of your authority.

Nicola: Yeah.

Joan: And your wisdom that you bring. And I think for each of us as women, it is so key that we remember our own authority.

Nicola: Yeah. Yeah.

Joan: So I know that we had spoken about, um. That I wanna get the phrase right, the feminine life power, which is, I believe one of your key concepts, one of the key kernels of wisdom that you are bringing through in this life. So I really wanna just open the door for you to share with us what that is, what that means, if there, if there’s a story you can share to illuminate that for us. I just wanna kind of. Open the door and say, take it away, Nicola.

Nicola: I am receiving that invitation in this moment. I can feel it and I feel like I’m sitting on my horse and galloping through the doors, so thank you.

Yeah, because we also, you know, I can feel how important and how vital this is to be in connection with the life, feminine life power, as well as the truth of love for what you already spoke in the bio, The great turning. The Great Turning, just to back up a little bit, has to do with the Shambhala Prophecy that was spoken about 5,000 years ago.

It’s one of the oldest prophecies. And it is said that when life is hanging on a mere thread, when all life is at stake, which we are now in the Shambhala Warriors will rise. And with the weapons of compassion and insight will enter the darkest hells of humanity and dismantle systems that destroy life

In order to to bring that sacred forth. And that sacred that has been so disseminated, oppressed, especially with women,

Joan: yes.

Nicola: Is the piece that the shambhala or the shambhala prophecy points to. It’s like that piece is the most essential piece for our survival on this planet and for all beings right now.

So just I invite everybody just to feel the, the beautiful gravity of that.

Joan: Yes.

Nicola: That this is needed. This is not just some new age spiritual bobble. This is like the substance to be connected to that feminine life power that is within us that we can access and that is our greatest gift as women. That is, that is the thing, the very thing that can help the great turning in this world that we need so urgently now.

Joan: Mm-hmm.

Nicola: And of course it’s connected to the love. But I, um, yeah, I wanted to say that before I go into the story because I have a very riveting story for today.

Joan: Thank you. I’m just, I’m really struck by the magnitude of what you’re sharing and just the, the wake up, like the, the wake up call. Yeah. That you’re bringing through, and I know that you are a powerful voice and presence, not only for the wake up call, but for the medicine.

So would love if you could even just tell us for you, what is that feminine life power that that you bring and that you teach about?

Nicola: I feel really excited to teach about it because in this moment, because I can sense the level of openness you have and the level of, you know, really being present with this.

And so I think the best way I can, instead of talking about it and giving some concepts, which. Sound nice, but you walk away after such a talk. Like, what was it again? She spoke. I wanna actually lead in with a story of how I came across this.

Joan: Absolutely.

Nicola: Feminine life power because for the longest time, and this is still true for me, it’s all about the truth and power of love.

But when I encountered, I was about, I think 24, I had been on a spiritual path really intensely already since I was 14, um, due to a near death experience, and then going to India. But around 24 I felt a strong sense and call I need to go into the Amazon, into the jungle. Now I love the wild anyway, but coming from, at that time I lived in England, but I’m originally German, so you can imagine like a 24-year-old, really naive at that time I’m thinking.

How wonderful. I’m just gonna walk into the jungle and I’m gonna meet the native people, the indigenous people, and maybe somebody trains me. Who knows? I was so excited. I had no idea. What the jungle felt like, what it is like to be in it.

Joan: Mm-hmm.

Nicola: And I was really ill prepared.

Joan: It’s the exuberance of the maiden.

Nicola: That was the maiden phase. At that time there was no spiritual tourism to the Amazon. It was basically, nobody really wanted to go there unless you really go to a fancy hotel. But I stood there. I never forget that moment when I stood on the shores of a huge river. The name I have forgotten and I, with my broken Spanish, I tried to convey to those two strange looking guys like in these ragged clothes who stood next to a boat that me wanting to go to the indigenous tribe.

They laughed like you. They thought, this is a cute, blonde haired, blue eyed what? So I said, okay, for the right price, they would take me. Of course they would take me into the boat. And so I climbed into this wooden shaggy boat and. Already in the boat. I said, ah, I just put my hands into the water to feel it.

And the guy says, no, no,

I saw the alligators in there. And I was like, yeah, well, I keep my hand on my lap. And then comes the swarms, those mosquitoes. And so it began my initiation into the jungle and it wasn’t so funny anymore. And so, you know, the kind of paradise that I dreamt of after I had like 30 bites all over me. And some point I just stopped the boat.

It was later in the afternoon, the sun was already softening over the trees. And they said, so there you go out and you go straight and you go left and there’s the tribe. And I was like, okay. I climbed out with my backpack and just waved them goodbye. There was no path. There was nothing other than huge humongous trees and howler monkeys and eyes that I didn’t even recognize what kind of animal this is.

Joan: Hmm.

Nicola: I was sweating. I was hot. Uh, I thought, where are they? Straight and left. I thought, I don’t know when, where it’s left, when? My mind couldn’t figure this thing out.

So, I just did something instinctively. Later I learned this was a way to access, you know, the, not just the intuition, but the instinctual way of Feminine. Who knows. Who knows the way. I rooted down, I breathed in my belly. I opened my heart, and then I just followed. Just that instinctual draw that drew me into straight through, through the leaves, through all the immense big roots, and I forged my way through and suddenly I turned left. I had no idea why I turned left.

I just turned left. Hmm. I walked on for another half hour, not knowing if I’m in the right direction or wrong direction, and pondering in between. Well, if I end up tonight sleeping in there. I was thinking, well, it’s not a problem. But then I realized there’s a lot of spiders too, a lot of animals. I thought it’s not so nice.

I was like, please guide me. So I asked, please guide me. And that prayer was like a flame in my heart and it just kept drawing me closer and closer. And some suddenly I stand in this circle of little tiny huts. Like, uh, I stood there, I thought, there they are. And there were the Amazonian people that tribe.

Oh. Uh, they’re looking at me, I’m looking at them like we are two different kinds of animals.

Joan: Yes.

Nicola: Because at that time they didn’t engage too much with the Western people, so, and there was no ayahuasca journey or whatever.

Joan: Right.

Nicola: Yeah. they also didn’t speak, you know, they for sure didn’t speak English. One of them spoke a little bit broken Spanish like me.

So we communicated through hands. And basically I just made it clear I wanna find the shaman in the village and I wanna be trained by the shaman in the village. And again, they laughed. And then I thought, she’s really cute. Let’s give her first some food. The food was really strange. I didn’t know what I was eating.

Was it frogs or anything? I had no idea. And I, I said, but there was this sense of like, I’m in the right place.

Joan: Uhh.

Nicola: At some point, the crone, as we would call her, turned out to be a shaman lady.

Joan: Wow.

Nicola: Who came to me. And half the teeth had fallen out. You know, they don’t have dentists in the jungle. She looked at me like, I mean, the wrinkles, there were wrinkles, like you cannot even believe the amount.

But she looked beautiful. She was like, oh, she was a wise one and she had chutzpah, you know, Jewish word. She looked at me with this twinkle and said, ah, okay, you wanna learn from me? And she looked at me and she eyed me up and down and, and, and then she said, alright. Okay. Yeah.

I had no idea. I had been with great spiritual masters and you know, done a lot of training, but this was unlike anything I have ever experienced.

She put me through the ringer from day one. She said you, because she was testing me. Yeah, she wasn’t going to take me on as a student if I had just this little sweet, westerner idea of maiden of like, oh, this would be so cool to be trained as a shaman, and she just wanted to like, she figured after three days I would take a run for it.

Joan: Mm-hmm.

Nicola: She underestimated my spirit. She underestimated me. And I was like, I’m gonna show her. I am gonna show her. I’m gonna stay. And she threw everything at me, including, you know, sleep on the bare ground with the spiders crawling over you. With was all sorts of Yeah. Tests.

Joan: Wow.

Nicola: At some point she said, Okay, I train you. And then then it became serious and she was no bullshit here. And the first thing was to train to go through any fear you have.

Joan: Mmm, Wow.

Nicola: Um, not in visualizations.

Joan: The real deal.

Nicola: The real, you know, I had to, I had to learn to sit with the alligators at the river. And if I didn’t do the attunement right with them, well, they just would’ve eaten me up. So that was that. And I had to learn to walk bare feet, like completely really learning how to speak with the plants, with the animals to sense everything. So it was like after a month, I was just a sensing being. There was no more thought. Um, I think it was, I stayed with them about, I don’t know exactly, three months or something.

So there was a level of, um, training that I have never forgotten to this day. By the end, And this is where I’m coming to the point with the feminine life power. I know my crackly, um, shaman lady wouldn’t call it the feminine life power. She would just get on with it. No words.

Joan: Yes.

Nicola: So there was the initiation. In order in the traditional way. This was the same as for high priestesses. High priestesses. The same was the same thing. Test was for the true shamans. So this isn’t a westernized shamanism.

Joan: Right.

Nicola: And they all have the same thing. It’s you have to die in order to resurrect yourself. So for example, you have to take poison that will kill you, and you have to show that you can bring yourself back, or you take the poison and you don’t die from it because you’re so high advanced.

Yeah. So I didn’t get poisoned. She had something else prepared for me. But it is always, the initiation is always a life for death.

Joan: Yes.

Nicola: At that time. She warned me. She said, do you want to do the true initiation? And I was like, of course I’m all in. Again. No clue. I was like, I told her I had been meditating in the Himalayas for a month on death and dying.

I, I’m over my fear of this, so it’s not a problem. Right. She crackled and laughed. She was like, we will see, um, um, uh. But she also said, you know, do you have a child? Or you know? I said, no, so it’s okay if I go, this would be a fine ending. I said, alright, we will see. She always said that, we will see.

So they blindfolded me and the tribe walked with me and she, she also walked with me. It was. You know, almost naked walking through the forest and I could hear the sounds like they were within me, the sounds. I could feel the animals as if they’re literally part of me. I could sense the plants like they were growing through my body so that the sense of total oneness was there.

Joan: Hmm.

Nicola: I was sweating like buckets because I could feel it wasn’t just the heat. I could feel that something was coming that’s gonna, that’s gonna kick the shit out of me, basically. And, um, I was so wet. Everything. Yeah. So was moist, wet, uh. And I had to walk for a while. Really. And for a while they just kept saying, go, walk, walk.

And they started drumming, you know. They had these old drums. And I kind of went into a bit of an altered state. Without drugs. And then she said, so stop. She said, what will happen now if you don’t do what I’ve shown you, you will be dead within a minute.

Joan: Wow.

Nicola: I thought, okay.

Joan: Wow.

Nicola: And so they put, I could hear this. And I still, it just can feel it even today. I could hear the steps behind me and suddenly someone put an enormous weight onto my shoulders that I almost sunk into my knees. I’m pretty small, so it was really heavy. And I ripped the blindfold off. And my shaman lady cackled, she said, dids it!

Dids it! It’s like in, in, in some whatever, indigenous Spanish words. Hmm. I was like, there. That huge head of a snake came right at me. It was an anaconda snake.

Joan: Oh my God.

Nicola: And she was big. Anaconda snakes, when they’re hungry, they strangle you to death. They squeeze you to death. My lady, my my shaman, said she’s hungry. She’s hungry. It was clear she was coming for my neck and I would just put my hands there, which of course doesn’t help.

She said, remember, and I for the world couldn’t remember. I was terrified. I was so terrified. And I was like, everything in me froze. At the same time I had the pressure of like, I have 60 seconds, maybe to do what I was supposed to do. And I couldn’t do nothing. I was just staring at the snake.

And then something inside of me kicked in and said, wake up. I took the breath that saved my life. I just leaned back centered into just breathing three times in and out, looking around me, not at the snake, but at the, full canopy of the trees and listening also to the monkeys, so that have become present, you see?

Joan: Yes.

Nicola: I put my hand at my belly and just acknowledged the fear.

It had to go all in seconds. It wasn’t like, okay, long time, meditate yourself to peace. No, I just said, yes. I, I get, I’m afraid, and something inside of me is much, much greater. I have breathed into that, that field, opened my heart. How do you open your heart to an humongous snake who’s about to swallow you, strangle you to death?

You know, I could open my heart a lot, but in that moment it was, I don’t know how to love that snake. She’s about, I’m, I’m about to be lunch for her.

Joan: Wow.

Nicola: I just remember the, just felt for a moment of love that for all the animals that I had and, and then I looked at her and it, because I had to ground. So I did the grounding. I did the presencing. And then I had to connect with my love to her.

I swear you not in that moment, the snake that was hissing stopped the hissing. And slowly the more I connected, the more I went into our nature and could just feel the connection with her the more she came down, came down and then put her head on my belly.

And I sank to my knees.

Joan: Hmm.

Nicola: She wrapped herself around me, not to strangle me, but to rest and on my belly. I started stroking that silky skin. You know, it was on my naked belly. She was there. I can feel that incredible life power pulsing through her. In that moment, my, my life power rose through my yoni and through my belly.

I could feel, I became, I became snake. The snake, it was like that snake power with some call shakti, it moved through my spine. And I started swaying with her and she just kept doing her thing with me. I could feel that she was giving me the initiation and woke up that true life power.

Joan: Wow.

Nicola: At that moment, it was like I was in love with the snake, but more so it wasn’t a separate object, it was snake, me, one. And that power that rose was unprecedented. I could feel the, how it filled my body. How I felt so much bigger. And strong, vibrant, alive. Fully, fully alive. And so much energy was flowing through me and the snake just at some point just slept for a little bit.

And then she went, she slithered slowly away giving me one more look like as if she was saying, remember this. Slithered away and found another prey for her lunch.

Joan: Wow.

Nicola: And in that moment, the whole tribe clapped and my shaman lady said, wow, That’s it. Shaman.

Joan: Wow.

Nicola: And that was for me. You can’t, you can explain the feminine life power.

You can talk about it, but at the same time, for me, this was the, it was, it woke, it merged, and then from then on it flowed if I didn’t, you know, close it up. But that was the first meeting with that, what I call feminine life power. The original power of life.

Joan: Hmm.

Nicola: And the snake, the anaconda snake to this day, I bow to the snakes.

Joan: And here we are in the year of the snake, the wood snake. Yeah. We’re coming. In fact, this, this episode will come out in December and there will be just about six weeks left in the year of the snake. So I was so struck by just the transmission of that life force, and even when you were describing walking in the jungle, I could feel my own senses like getting heightened and turned on.

And just that sensual body of who we are and, and the marriage for you of, I know prior to that you had done a lot of meditative, like eastern meditative work than to go to this very grounded or earthy and to enter the most wild and primordial space. And for that, you know, that union or that marriage to happen through your body and with the initiation of the snake is it’s, it’s such an honor to receive the story.

Nicola: Thank you. Thank you.

Joan: And to see what flows from that, what flows from that?

Nicola: Yeah. Yeah, that’s what I discovered later, you know. I had to, I had to live more and more true to that because I could also feel coming back into the world was really hard after this., And then to see how much cement, we put, what you said, the primordial creation power.

Mm-hmm. How much we, you know, not just suppress it, but we cement it over. And because this was even beyond, you know, the earthy, pagan, whatever this is, like, this is primordial, this is hooking right into the power of the pure power of creation.

Joan: Yes.

Nicola: And it, it had an effect on people when I, you know traveled. And I always wondered why people have such reactions to me, I don’t understand.

Some were really positive and some were not positive because it brought up fear in people. Some, some people were really like, wow. And some, like you. And some people were like the devil. I have just entered into a room and I didn’t even say anything. It had that transmission that you just felt and that probably some of the listeners feel.

Has an effect that ripples far and wide. It does. It wakes up. It revives the dead. It heals, it resurrects it, blesses it, sanctifies. But it also wake is a power that cannot be controlled. And this is the power we’ve been trying for eons to control. You see it in the rivers, how they’re cemented in, you know, how women were also suppressed.

It’s that it’s the primordial wildlife power and it is not to do with running through the streets and going crazy. It’s it’s power itself. And it does what it does because it serves life. It doesn’t serve any human construct. So of course it’s threatens some of the people. It threatens the shit out of them.

‘cause it’s just like the, the, the snakes here. Here I am. Okay. Either. Either you bow to the, to the Divine Mother, to the primordial life power and surrender that to that and say, okay, do me or you fight it.

Joan: Yes.

Nicola: The result of the fighting it and resisting it is that you get more contracted in your body.

Your emotions get more held. Whereas if you, if you actually say yes to this and invited, invite her into your life, you are going to be liberated.

Joan: Hmm. So, and go ahead.

Nicola: This, this liberation is needed in order for us to , to actually have an effect in our world.

Joan: Absolutely.

Nicola: Without, but the effect, like I had to learn it the hard way is sometimes people are get really, they, they don’t like this. So, and some people have reactiveness and some people will like, hallelujah, Thank God. Like the women who come on my retreat say, hallelujah, we want this, we want to be connected to this.

But you know, and I had to learn over time to not let it full blast out into. Because I was like, yeah, this is gonna knock out half the people on the bus.

Hold your horses, learn how to navigate this because, because also it wasn’t serving me. It was just, it was, it is pure life power. It serve onto itself. It’s, it’s so strong and it has to be connected to the heart. And then once that happens, it’s only of benefit. Only.

Joan: Yes. And I, I’m guessing it was a journey to integrate that and how to be in the world with that much potency and connected to that primordial essence.

Nicola: Mm-hmm.

Joan: And power.

Nicola: It definitely was. It ran against my whole, it challenged me so much because, you know, I wanted to be liked. I was the, I was the lovely, sweet girl. I mean, how can somebody like this little woman walk around with this huge power? So I learned how to hide it. I learned how to veil it. I learned to pretend that, nah, I don’t have it.

I, I did every number on it. You would think I was like, oh yeah, look at me. No, it was the opposite. Don’t look at me. I don’t want you to know this. It felt like the secret and it was leaking out everywhere. It still did its work, but I had to learn to really embrace that and stand in that and of course serve that, but also to let it trust a hundred percent that it’s doing what it’s doing as and through me.

And first now in my life I can say I stand now in that, as that. Um, you know, to take my authority in that. Because I also see the effect it has had on people. Like, you know, one woman comes with me into the cave and she, she truly, I mean, she had six weeks to live and had cancer all over her body.

And she just really wanted to experience to be on a true well Magdalena initiation retreat, not the kind of fluffy thingy. And she, which nobody expected this after the retreat goes home and the doctors couldn’t find any more cancer. And for me, that was proof in the pudding. Yeah. And so many I see get woken their hearts open, that the healings happen, the energy starts flowing and it brings up all sort stuff, you know, the traumas and all the stuff that, that’s a reason why we blocked it, you know?

So it, it, it, it’s not like, oh, you go on an instant high. You go on, this feels like home. This feels real, this feels connected. This feels so alive, utterly alive. And then comes the fears or the contractions inside that have, ‘cause we all have it, which is built a lot of stuff around it. And that life power wants to free it up so it flushes it up.

Joan: Yes. So for us as women specifically, you are, are saying that we have an innate connection to this.

Nicola: Yep.

Joan: And we are, we are born, like in some ways this is our birthright or this is the true essence of who we are.

Nicola: Yeah, it’s, I mean, we are the mother’s who birth life. So it’s the creation power. We are the closest to that.

And the thing is, we are also the most burdened as women because we, we were punished for it for centuries. You know, burned at the stake, the whole story. And we ourselves put us, you know, into a pretzel, like tightened up.

And even when I hear women teaching about access your empowerment, and I’m like, you’re talking about ego empowerment, that’s fine.

The personality needs that too. But the true empowerment is to come, to reconnect, to open the doors and to let the blocks melt and really connect back to that vibrant, alive life power and then let that move through and as you in, in benefit to all.

Joan: Yes. So it does require, as you said, the heart, the wisdom of the heart, and I would say,

Um, maturity.

Nicola: Yes.

Joan: Certain amount of maturity too.

Nicola: You need maturity and a character that is not about to manipulate this, to misuse it.

Joan: Right.

Nicola: You need to have a, that that’s character building sometimes is under underserved in the spiritual world. But you need to have also the capacity, to do your own healing work in a way that is not bypassing.

‘cause you can lie to yourself of course, but you can’t lie to that life power. It’s pure truth.

Joan: Right.

Nicola: No. So,

Joan: and my guess is that there was a, i, I come from the tradition that there is, that, you know, that feminine life power and then there is the, like the support of the masculine, whether it’s the river banks or the um,

Nicola: Myaww

Joan: The infrastructure. You’re saying, ehh.

Nicola: Sometimes it’s not support, sometimes it’s to control it.

Joan: Yes. I would say in the distort, yes. In a distorted version, yes. But there’s something that you have cultivated, it sounds like? Mm-hmm. And that is necessary, whether it is that maturity, whether it is the, um. Even, I would say having a healthy ego that can

Nicola: Yeah.

Joan: Be responsible in a way.

Nicola: Yeah.

Joan: For this great gift and this great power to know how to use it in a way.

Nicola: Yeah.

Joan: That is honoring,

Nicola: yeah. Yeah. That’s where the, I would say the personhood is in service.

Joan: Yes.

Nicola: To her.

Joan: Yes.

Nicola: And i, I feel when you say the word maturity

Joan: mm-hmm.

Nicola: It is befitting because there was a reason why my shaman lady was old.

Joan: Yes.

Nicola: She had. She was, she had it all. She was it. And I could feel that we sometimes believe that in our time now. Well, you just need to read a book and you know, and then meditate a little bit and do some affirmations or whatever, and you can just fast track yourself.

Joan: Right. to Yes to,

Nicola: but you can’t, with this, you can’t. You have to have a certain training. You have to, you know, be trained, train yourself, and then also walk through, walk your talk, not just talk. And these are the things that the life power is then is for me, is, holy it, this is true holy.

Joan: It’s the most holy.

Nicola: Yeah.

Joan: I mean, all life is holy. But it is, it is the essence of the most sacred and the most holy

in form. In in form.

Nicola: Yeah.

Joan: And you and your work with women is to activate and orient to this, or to remember? Is, is

Nicola: All of it. But I also help women to open to it and to connect so they can experience it and embody it. Notice. So it’s, it’s for those who are more, devoted or really love, they, they then train with me to really, you know, yeah, integrate all the levels too, because you can’t bypass your emotions. And through the emotions that you get in touch with it, as well as was the senses.

So it’s, as you see, it’s completely the opposite how I was trained as a Buddhist. I was, I was a Buddhist teacher before and literally trained by the llamas.

And uh, and I’m like, well, this is not quite fitting. It says get, beyond your senses and beyond your feelings. But with Her, with the Her way which I call a revolutionary way is you go through the senses, through your feelings in order to connect to that original life power.

Joan: Which is the, the feminine way is to

Nicola: Yeah.

Joan: Inhabit the body and to be connected to our emotion.

Nicola: Yeah. Yeah.

Joan: We are multidimensional in that way.

Nicola: Yeah.

Joan: So is there anything, we have just a few more minutes left.

Is there anything you would tell a listener who is curious and, and says, I, I want more? What, how do I begin? What, what should I do? What, what do I do?

Nicola: It’s such a good question.

Joan: To start on the path. Not that to get to the, the whole thing, but what’s the first step?

Nicola: I love this question because it only, we only have one step every time, isn’t it?

Joan: Yes.

Nicola: I think, um, and I will also walk everybody through a practice, but for this moment I would say start where you are now, meaning feel into what is alive right now in your body? And that instead of dismissing that

mm-hmm.

See what it’s like to actually breathe into that and worship that as Her, as the goddess as, the Primorial mother, as the holy. This shifts the relationship first. And then the second thing is, I would say is see if you can walk through life and notice what’s it like if I treat this animal or this person in a shop as sacred.

Hmm.

How does that feel when I do that? Or myself when I look in the mirror? What if I’m sacred? Not in concept.

Mm-hmm.

Because I’m life.

Joan: Right. So even tending the body or how, because for so many women, the way we relate to our body is not, uh, holding it as sacred.

Nicola: It’s not relating to it as sacred, because of course it doesn’t, you know, my butt is too small.

My belly, the belly too big, whatever. But if we go deeper than that and just say the truth of the matter is, Matter is mother.

Yeah. Is it’s that hand. Look at your hand in this moment. If you just lift up your hand and just touch it, not as an object, but touch it as if this hand is pure life power. It’s the, it’s Her, it’s the Divine.

Touch it as sacred, your hand.

Mm. Mm hmm.

How, how does it feel when you do it that way?

Hmm.

Joan: It brings it into a whole different dimension, a whole different relationship.

Nicola: That’s it. Yeah. To shift that is, is, is I would say the most crucial at first, and then you start acting like that. But it’s, it’s, it’s like too many walking around and have all these concepts. But they don’t feel it.

Joan: Right. It’s not lived

Nicola: No.

Joan: In a felt sense way.

Nicola: Yes.

Yeah. We can say, yeah, all things are sacred. Okay, so that’s nice, but, and, but if you experience it, you just like, you just use the simplicity of your hand, for example, and then you can like, oh, this is. I feel it. I sense it now. How would I touch my animal? Or how would I touch another with this hand as being sacred?

Hmm. Mm-hmm.

You see, then you take it even more into embodiment.

Joan: Yes. And as you said, as we wrap this up, there will be bonus content where you will take us through a practice. So I will put the link in the, show notes for that so people can access that practice. We do need to bring this to a close for today, and I wanna just thank you from the bottom of my heart.

I feel like we’ve just begun. There’s so, there’s

so much.

Nicola: I am So it was such a pleasure to talk about this, and especially in your presence, Joan, because you held it with such, such high regard, but also you could feel and sense. And so, because the feminine thrives in relating, so it became even more ‘cause of your, you know, how you sat in your seat.

Joan: Hmm. Thank you.

I knew there was a reason I wanted you to be one of the early, interviews that I did and it does feel like a, a blessing or a consecration of the Crone Codes with this life force energy that you brought through today and myself as the host to be baptized in that, so to speak.

Nicola: Yes. It was a baptism. It was an activation and a transmission. And so I am, yeah, I’m honored to have served that way and may the Crone codes and the podcast and all who listened to it, be blessed and sanctified by that. So, so much love to everyone and to you. Thank you.

Joan: Hmm. Thank you.

Thank you again Nicola, for your willingness to be here and to share so generously. If my listeners would like to go deeper with you or to learn more, where can they find you?

Nicola: Uh, you can find me on the internet, of course. I’m not running around in the jungle. Um, it’s nicolaamadora.com. That’s my website.

It’s the same as my first and last name. And women also can go there and receive on the feminine page, they can receive a free gift. It’s called the Feminine Nectar Meditation, and be guided into that.

And you know, the women can find also my retreats and trainings. So there’s a lot on offer there in this, uh. What somebody said that your website is like a huge castle with many mansions, so don’t get lost in it.

Joan: I know you’ve created quite a few videos as well that are on YouTube.

Yeah. Check that out. And your book, of course.

Nicola: Yes. Yes. And I I also co co-authored Magdalena Unveiled book, so yeah. There’s a lot there, and I am looking forward to meet anyone who feels drawn to come along.

Joan: Beautiful, beautiful. So my dear listener, I wanna thank you again for being here and to remind you that whether you are creating ripples or great waves, that you are love and you are loved.

Hmm.

Until next time.

00:00 Welcome to The Crone Codes

01:57 Introduction to the Crone Code of Consent

02:42 Our Feminine Nature and Consent

04:39 Honoring the Feminine and Masculine

06:20 Feminine and Masculine Consent

08:08 Reclaiming our innate Feminine and Masculine

10:29 The Feminine as Visionary Leader

13:26 The Masculine as Hero

14:30 Call to Action and Community Engagement

17:00 Bonus Content and Final Thoughts

Mentioned in this episode:

Ke’oni Hanalei and Pohala Hawaiian Botanicals

Love & Will: Our True Nature with Marion Rose PhD

*Access Reclaim your Power of Consent bonus content. and subscribe to our paid Crone Codes Bonus Community Membership to go deeper into the Crone Codes with tools, prompts, resources + bonus surprises curated just for you.

Read Joan’s latest Crone Codes revelations, reflections + episode backstories: Joan Advent Substack

Transcript

Joan: Hello and welcome to the Crone Codes. I’m your host, the creator and resident crone Joan Advent, and I have a very powerful crone code to talk with you about today. It is a code that is rooted in our feminine nature. We might not necessarily consider it to be an aspect of our feminine, but in fact, from the perspective and the lens of indigenous Hawaiian and Mū culture, it is the basis of our feminine.

It is the kind of the ultimate essence of our feminine. And so I want to unpack that with you today. So this particular piece of wisdom came to me through a mentor that I’m working with, Ke’oni Hanalei of Pohala Botanicals. He is a teacher of this indigenous Hawaiian wisdom, and he is , a living transmission of his indigenous Hawaiian lineage. So the code that I wanna talk with you about today is the code of consent. As I said from this lens, this indigenous Hawaiian lens, our feminine nature, our inner embodied feminine is all about consent. It’s about safety, it’s about choice.

There is a, indigenous Hawaiian, affirmation related to the feminine. And it goes, Ua Malu, I am safe. And I decide.

So not that long ago, I was scrolling through my Instagram feed and saw a reminder of the new awareness that we now have in science, that at the time of conception what was once thought to be an experience of, we’ll say male dominance through the fastest swimmer or the strongest swimmer of the sperm making its way to penetrate the egg. That of course has been debunked, and now there is the recognition and the realization that it is actually the egg that chooses which sperm she wants to procreate with.

She is consenting to who she chooses to procreate with. And why is that so groundbreaking? And why is this so important for us to discuss? Well, our capacity for consent really is the foundation of all of our yeses in our life and all of our nos.

If we can be grounded in our capacity to consent, there is so much power that dwells in that. And of course our consent and that sense of what is a yes for me and what is a no for me is rooted in our body. It is a visceral experience that we have. And here’s the thing, we are going to spend a whole lot of time moving forward.

We are just at the beginning of our Crone Codes journey, and we are going to spend a whole lot of time unpacking various codes associated with our Feminine. And it’s so critical that we also are unpacking and integrating and including those qualities of our Masculine, because the truth is, as human beings, we are both. Ke’oni, my mentor likes to say I am 100% masculine and I am 100% feminine. The truth is regardless of our gender, that is the reality that we are both. And ultimately in this journey towards wholeness in this journey towards cronehood it is an integration. And it is learning how to harmonize these two aspects of ourselves, our masculine dimension, our feminine dimension, and all of the qualities that stream forth from each of those in order for us to function at our highest, in order for us to create in our lives, in order for us to enjoy the fulfillment of life on this planet. The only way we can do it is if we have an integration of these two aspects of ourself, our feminine nature, and our masculine nature.

So going back to consent. Consent is as I said, that awareness of what is a yes or what is a no, it is that clarity. It is that visioning of knowing this is something I can move forward with or this is something I want to experience or it’s not.

So that is the feminine aspect. And then if we look at how does the masculine work with that or how does it support? And actually, the way that it provides support is our masculine nature is the part of us that follows through on that consent. It ensures that that consent is honored. It is the aspect of us that sets the boundary.

It is the aspect of us that maintains the boundary. It is the part of us that advocates for ourself, that advocates and speaks up for our yeses, for our no’s. And as you can see, we need both. We need both hands, so to speak. We need both components in order for us to have a sense of safety and sovereignty and empowerment, and frankly, to just get off the ground in becoming who we came here to be and to do what we came here to do.

The fact is that frequently we are out of balance and we don’t have that integrated sense of both. We have all experienced living in a culture that overvalue the masculine, that overvalues masculine qualities and ways of being that has denigrated and diminished our feminine nature. It’s part of why it’s so important that we’re having discussions like this, that we are highlighting these aspects of our feminine nature so we can reclaim the dignity, reclaim the honor, but also reclaim the true and unadulterated versions of these important codes and qualities. It’s the only way our inner feminine and masculine can come into balance and wholeness and work together.

So part of why I am speaking to this is because we as women are emerging from systemic misogyny. And we as humanity are dealing with personal and societal trauma of just living in what my last guest, Marion Rose calls the disconnected domination culture.

So if you’re anything like me coming back from the misogyny and living in a culture that is so profoundly out of balance, has been quite a long journey.

It’s been quite a long journey, of recognizing and remembering the sacred in my feminine nature so I could have the capacity to even see and recognize the sacred in the true divine masculine nature.

And so the thing that I am so struck by when I consider this piece, related to conception and the way conception works is it is such a highlight for the natural gifts of our Feminine.

Just think about it. The egg determines, like the egg. Our feminine is multidimensional in nature. We are, we as the feminine, that aspect of us has that open connection if we’re able to allow it. That open connection to spirit, to the divine, to God, to the wisdom, to know what is the absolute right combination for this life to come in for this body, for this set of DNA to come in and create a human life.

It’s the feminine. Just as that is true in conception, it’s true in our whole life. That it clearly, I have, um, big feelings about this. It is the feminine aspect of our nature that is plugged in to the other side, to the, to the unseen dimensions that can inform how we’re meant to live our lives.

What is a yes and what is a no? Even if at face value, it doesn’t make any sense to us, but our, our body, our visceral experience is saying, this is a no for me. I don’t care what anybody else says. I don’t care what, makes sense on paper. This is what’s true for me.

And the fact is, is our masculine is so much because it is more uni dimensional, one dimensional. Not to diminish it at all, but it is what is able to get the job done. It’s what is able to take all that multidimensional vision and wisdom and clarity and bring it into the 3D. Bring it into our life and create what it is we’re wanting to create.

And so back to the Hawaiian, indigenous lens. So from that standpoint, the Feminine is considered the Leader. The leader from the standpoint that they receive the visions and they see where we’re headed or where we need to go. And the masculine is considered the Hero. The hero that can accomplish or get it done. And just coming back to the reminder, that, that is the highest resonance of who we are designed to be as humans.

That our feminine nature is our visionary leader and that our masculine nature is the get it done, hero. For so many of us, we have outsourced aspects of that. We have outsourced either that, uh, protective mechanism of the masculine or we have outsourced, uh, even the consent of looking to others for permission to do what we know we are meant to do. Or to do what is a yes for us? What is true for us. And this conversation that we’re having today is a call to bring those parts of us back, to bring them into right balance.

This feels really important to transmit.

Your inner feminine wisdom, your inner feminine knowing, intuition, visioning, is the North Star for you to be tuned in, in so many ways, for what you’re meant to take action on or not in your life. What you’re meant to pursue. Who you’re meant to be or how you’re meant to be. And then your masculine is the one that comes in with the discipline, et cetera, to make it happen.

So can you see how valuable and important it is and how it can enable you to detach from other people’s agendas? How it can engender, a sense of sovereignty and leadership. KC Baker, who was my very first interview, likes to speak about self-leadership, and that feels like an apropos, term at this point. Can you see how when we have that balance of our inner masculine and inner feminine, we are capable of self-leadership. We are capable of creation at levels and in ways that we just cannot achieve without that balance.

So I really encourage you to let this wash over you. There are so many other dimensions, of our masculine and our feminine, but this, to me feels so critical and so foundational to our capacity to rise in our cronehood, to embody our cronehood.

And so I wanted to lead with this.

So if you’re on Substack or YouTube, would love to hear your thoughts or input on this. Love to hear how this is landing for you and what it inspires in you or brings up.

And if you would like to go deeper, if you would like to unpack the places where you are, outsourcing your feminine code of consent, And or your masculine code of being a guardian of that consent, I encourage you to check out the Crone Codes Bonus Content Membership. There are a few things there that will be very powerful in that regard. The first is The Willingness Practice that Marion Rose generously donated to our bonus community after her interview, earlier this month. And then the bonus content for this episode will specifically be targeted around reclaiming your power, those places where you have outsourced those codes related to consent and being the guardian of that. So I have put the link in the show notes if that’s something you are interested in. Also, just to let you know, this past summer I did offer an extended masterclass on the indigenous Hawaiian perspective on the Feminine, that Feminine Foundation.

I will put the link in the show notes as well, so you can access the replay for that.

And finally, my dear listener, as always, I want to remind you that whether you’re making ripples or big waves in this world, that you are love and you are loved.

When I envisioned creating the Crone Codes podcast last Spring I knew I needed to interview psycho-spiritual psychologist, Marion Rose PhD asap.

She was one of my last interviews of my Trust Your Sacred Feminine Flow era. And at the time she was just beginning to speak about the Domination Culture that fostered the top down power over dynamic we are all too familiar with.

Over the years since then she’s been speaking and teaching about what she calls Love Work and Will Work.

Because of her teachings on the codes of Will and Willingness and True Power for us as women/humans I wanted to include her interview as part of the podcast launch.

I was very clear about that. And frankly I could not see anyway to reasonably move forward without her wisdom.

So I reached out to her in June. Just as she was beginning to emerge from a dark night of the soul and about to be pummeled by a series of unfortunate Saturn Return events.

So despite an initial enthusiastic Yesss to participating, she spent weeks and then months going MIA and then briefly resurfacing.

I kept checking in, am I meant to let this go? And I kept getting NO, stick with it.

So I did.

Through the triggers.

Am I being ghosted?! Should I take this personally?

But my heart knew her and trusted her.

And then she would resurface after some crazy catastrophe and we would assume okay, we’re moving forward.

But it became evident very quickly this was not going to be business as usual.

Part of our challenge was the time zones - me on the East Coast of the US and her somewhere in the Australian countryside.

And I realized we were navigating among other factors multiple polarities. Not the least of which was her being in a complete state of upheaval and my life being calm and stable.

But I had been in her shoes before. I knew that territory.

And I realized we were going to have to get creative.

So when she reached out to let me know she had to cancel our interview an hour and a half before it was scheduled - with only a week before it’s release date - I activated the superpower I had learned years earlier when I had been in her shoes.

The superpower of feel the shock, then pivot + respond. (I honed this skill as a mother but it became a next level superpower when the sh*t was hitting the fan during what I call my sandwich generation spiritual gauntlet phase). That’s a story for another day.

But despite all of the chaos - or maybe because of it - we co-created an episode that feels both groundbreaking and powerful in so many ways. And not just because of what was is contained in it (although it’s substantial) but also because of the healing gems it provided each of us in different ways.*

Not the least of which is, Marion was worth waiting for.

Her situation was messy and required patience but she was worth waiting for - not in a way that took away from me or my needs - but certainly in a way that required trust and surrender and devotion.

And here’s the thing - WE ARE ALL WORTH WAITING FOR in those moments when we need extra patience, care and understanding.

Healing Gems & Liberation Codes from our Willingness to let go and let Life guide us.

1. When you know, you know. I was so clear and knew this interview was meant to happen despite how crazy it may have looked from the outside. I questioned myself. I sensed concern from friends as I shared the saga. “Just walk away it’s not meant to be so hard,” was the general gist.
   
   And yet sometimes things are hard and doesn’t flow easily and it’s still what we’re called to do. We can’t see the larger tapestry of all of the threads until much later.

2. I mentioned during the episode that once Marion had her head above water, she reached out and acknowledged the impact of her being awol. Not only did she apologize but she told me that she was willing to be present for any and all feelings I might have about the circumstances. That was a first in my life. No one has ever offered me that kind of acknowledgement, space and invitation before. And I certainly never expected this to come in a professional exchange.

The roots of this healing go very very deep for me. Marion’s disappearances + extended absences re-awakened a very old wound imprint.

Midway through the journey of attempting to negotiate an interview format with Marion, my daughter, found my baby book. She began reading a passage to me one day when I had plans to be doing something else. I was captive as my daughter read on and on.

Clearly life wanted me to get the message.

In the passage my mother described a game I played as a very, very little girl. I would run to the door and say to my Mom, “my friends are here to play”. I would fling the door open with my little hands and no one would be there. Apparently, it happened again and again - so much so my Mother thought to write it down in my baby book.

This imprint of wanting to engage and having no one there to meet me has played out in many different ways in my life. So to have Marion be so present and responsive to my feelings about all that was profoundly healing.

3. Marion shared with me after the episode was released how the experience of recording it in the way the she did - outside in the growing darkness and sounds of life - freed her in some very important ways from the programming of the disconnected and domination culture.
   
   Having the freedom and the space to express herself in the setting she felt most alive and aligned.

She also acknowledged how this experience was already impacting choices she would make in creating her own recorded work moving forward.

4. Early in our discussions, I had offered the format of exchanging questions and answers as we ultimately did. But once it appeared that we were on solid ground with our communication and a plan we attempted to set a traditional interview appointment. She offered I accepted. It just felt safer and less unknowns.

But deep down, both of us knew it was not meant to happen that way.

So my rational mind and it’s desire to hold onto doing a traditional interview created more chaos and crisis for myself.

Had I trusted my initial plan I would’ve had significantly more space and time for the editing. Long story short again, trust that you know what you know.

5. Marion teaches about what she calls conversations with life and I call in my own teachings, co- creating with life. Both names are referring to the phenomenon that sometimes (many times) Life is shaping the way our experiences and creations are meant to evolve.

It was clear this episode was both meant to occur, but not in a traditional way and Life would continue to intervene until we got the point.

So the long and the short of it is, had I limited myself to exclusively moving forward in a strictly linear way - forgoing the unknown - and not hung in there for the weeks and months of uncertainty of how it would all work out - I/we would’ve missed out on all these healing gems.

She opens up about the chaos, dark night, emerging clarity, and the personal and lineage healing she’s experiencing in her second Saturn Return. Lastly, Marion shares glimpses of the profound love and growth occurring in her multigenerational home, her conversations with life, and her animal sanctuary.

This slow and intentional dialogue is presented as a modern version of a letter exchange.

00:00 Welcome to The Crone Codes

00:48 Introducing Marion Rose

03:16 Marion’s Work, Resources and Accomplishments

09:44 Love Work, Will Work and the Disconnected, Domination Culture

19:32 Marion’s Saturn Return Experience

28:17 New Teachings Emerging from the Dark Night

32:03 Conversations with Life, the DDC and Women’s Power

34:47 The Healing in Our Exchange

37:29 Multi-Generational Living

40:35 Navigating Life’s Challenges and Embracing Chaos

44:45 The Beauty of Aging and Personal Growth

49:14 Concluding Reflections and Appreciations

To learn more about Marion Rose PhD and all of her work go to: marionrose.net

*Access Marion’s The Willingness Practice PDF and subscribe to our paid Crone Codes Bonus Community Membership to go deeper into the Crone Codes with tools, prompts, resources + bonus surprises curated just for you.

Read Joan’s latest Crone Codes revelations, reflections + episode backstories: Joan Advent Substack

Transcript

Welcome to The Crone Codes

Joan: Hello, and welcome back to the Crone Codes. I am your host. The creator and resident crone, Joan Advent and I have a very special treat for you today, listener.

Introducing Marion Rose

Joan: I have a colleague and a friend, and I would say a wise, wise soul sister joining me. This has been a long time in the making. This episode, Marion Rose is joining me today, and she is on the other side of the world.

I am here in the eastern seaboard of the United States. Marion is in Australia. I can’t remember. Pardon me, Marion if it’s the Melbourne, Melbourne area or what area it is, but I’m sure you can clarify that for us. Anyway. It’s her tomorrow. It’s my tomorrow. She’s in my tomorrow. She’s in her today. She’s in spring.

I’m in the fall. We’re in the fall here. Northern hemisphere. Southern hemisphere. So there’s a whole lot of, um. Interesting polarities that are occurring in this. And we have worked long and hard to try and find a time when we could do an actual interview together. And as it turns out, that is not how this podcast episode is meant to unfold.

So after a few months of going back and forth and it being quite clear that there was, it just was not gonna come together, that we could find a time. I proposed that we do a series where I ask questions and Marion responds almost like it brought me back to whether it was the letter in the bottle days, or I think about, um, famous founding fathers here like Thomas Jefferson, who would write letters to his wise colleagues and they would correspond. So this is the modern day Zoom technology version of Marion Rose and I corresponding across. Across the ethers across the consciousness, across the planet, across the days, and the dateline.

Marion’s Work, Resources & Accomplishments

Joan: So this may sound a little bit different than you are accustomed to, but as we often do, we are going to begin with Marion’s very accomplished biography. I wanna invite you, dear listener and Marion to close your eyes and to just receive this as something washing over you. Just these accomplishments, washing over you, and again, tuning in to see what are the crone codes, the unique crone codes that Marion has gathered as she has created this very comprehensive, list of accomplishments. So I invite you to close your eyes I’m going to share the wonder of Marion.

So Marion Rose has a 38 year history in psychology, psychospiritual psychotherapy, and consciousness with a PhD on postnatal depression and the mother infant relationship from Cambridge University. She’s been working therapeutically in one-on-one sessions with mentees for the last three decades.

She is an Aware Parenting instructor and has been for the last 20 years. She’s a level two instructor and the regional coordinator for Aware Parenting for Australia, New Zealand and Indonesia. She has seven bestselling books published on Aware Parenting, including two Aware Parenting children’s books with many more on the way.

She has a 23-year-old daughter and a 19-year-old son. She is the founder and creator of the Marion Method, A psychospiritual paradigm. of Re-Parenting and reculturing. She mentors parents and those who are not parents, as will as people who want to become aware. Parenting instructors and Marion Method mentors.

She creates online courses in Aware Parenting and the Marion Method and is passionate about creating cultural change through these paradigms. She hosted the Aware Parenting Podcast until it had 3.3 million plays. Now is hosting the Living Aware Parenting Podcast, as well as the Marion Rose Podcast.

Welcome, Marion.

Marion: Hello, lovey. Joan, thank you for that beautiful introduction. I loved closing my eyes and listening into you sharing about my journey over the past 38 years, I think you shared. Hmm. I find the younger parts of me. Uh, excited and delighted to see how things are turning out. So I’m here recording outside after a stormy day here in, I’m in Mullumbimby in Northern New South Wales.

Joan: So I reached out to Marion as soon as I knew I was going to be creating the Crone Codes. Marion was actually one of the last people that I interviewed on my former podcast, Trust your Sacred Feminine Flow. I believe that was back in 2021. And at that time she was just beginning speaking about culture and the over culture and

I think it’s the DDC, the disconnected and domination culture. She was speaking quite a lot about that, and many people might use the word patriarchy, but there’s a way in which Marion articulates what’s happening in the culture, and particularly as someone with expertise and wisdom as it relates to parenting,

Infant mother relationship both externally and that inner parenting component that we can do for ourselves and with ourselves.

There is a way that her unique lens of having done a deep dive into all of that wisdom, particularly including. The psycho-spiritual lens that illuminates, what is happening culturally in a way that I have not heard anyone else describe.

So, as I said, when I knew I was creating this podcast, I reached out to Marion and I wanted her to be one of my very first guests.

Love Work, Will Work and the Disconnected, Domination Culture

Joan: In part because there is wisdom and teaching she offers through the Marion method specifically related to what she calls love work, and will work. That prompted me to want to reach out to her, so I don’t want to take too much time leading in.

I want to be able to get into the questions. But there are so many pieces that we could touch on, and so I’m gonna pause with all the things I could speak about. I’m gonna pause about that and just dive into my question for now. And Marion I would love it if you could illuminate for us. What is love work?

What is will work and how do they fit with I, I know you are a teacher and a believer that we, as I understand it, are both loving beings and powerful beings, or that’s my translation, but I would love for you to unpack for us Love and Will and how you’ve come to learn or discover these two foundational pillars of,

of who we are as humans and how we heal or grow or expand as humans. So if you would just fill us in on that and any connections or stories you wanna include with that would be most welcome.

Marion: Thank you, and yes, the Disconnected Domination Culture. And I would love to share both about the disconnected domination culture and what I call Love and Will. And you asked about where these ideas came from or where I, where I co-created them with life and many of my mentors and teachers. And so I have been influenced by many different modalities, including Psychosynthesis by Roberto Assagioli, Aware Parenting by Aletha Solter, PhD.

NVC on Nonviolent Communication by Marshall Rosenberg, PhD, and, the Field Project, by Philip Golabuk. And when I was training as a psychosynthesis psychotherapist in the nineties, there was this thing they, they introduced me to love and will, a psychosynthesis did. And my teachers, Joan and Roger Evans taught a lot about this. And this will thing, I just was like, I just did not understand the will at all.

I did not understand it. And it’s really then become a passion of mine. And actually, I’m writing a book, which I’ve written about half. And then the way I like to write books is write. Or some of it and then pause for quite some time and come back to it. And in that book, I talk a lot about how, in my understanding, what I call the love element is really, spoken about a lot in many modalities, many psychotherapies, many spiritual practices and traditions.

And in my understanding, the will and willingness is spoken about much less and included much less. Mmm, so disconnected domination culture, and as you say, it’s much bigger than what people might call the patriarchy.

And the reason I created that term, which was inspired by the term that Marshall Rosenberg used the domination system, I think he called it. He was also inspired by a man called Walter Wink, who came up with that term. The way I see it as human beings, our true nature, as you were saying, is love and will.

We are love, which is not only loving and compassionate and empathic naturally in our soul, in who we really are. But that also means interconnected with all, all that is, so everything that’s related to love. So it’s not just what we might see as love in terms of maybe romantic relationship or, you know, feeling love towards our child.

It’s everything related to love, compassion, interconnectedness, attunement, all of those lovely things. And I think that that area is much more understood and explored. So, In this culture that we’re in, if you’re speaking English, our true nature is love and our interconnectedness has been deeply affected. And as you say, that’s my learning about that has really been influenced by my history looking at birth and the effects of birth on, babies. But also on the mother baby relationship, the, the baby parent relationship, that ongoing journey and how in this culture, there’s a lot of disconnection that happens, and I would say is deliberately created to create this disconnected domination culture.

So disconnection needs to come first. And disconnection opens the way for domination. So domination is the opposite of the other part of our true nature, as will as powerful beings. So the true nature of power, not power as we see it in this culture, but true power as souls. So the understanding that we not only live in an incredibly powerful world construct, but that we also are influencing that construct, our experience of that, not in a kind of solipsistic way. Not in a, I don’t use the word manifesting, for example. If you do, I invite you to use whatever words you want. But to me it’s really understanding more and more this nature of the power that we have. The influence that we do have.

And so this love and will is I see as souls who we really are, souls of love and will born into this disconnected domination culture. Which tries to trick us out of our true nature as love by disconnecting us, uh, giving us experiences that mean we don’t, many of us don’t feel deeply interconnected with all that is with life, with the trees, with the beings, with our lineage, with our with our ancestors and our traditions, our spiritual traditions from way back. Disconnection happens. And domination in terms of all the ways in which we’re tricked into believing that we’re not powerful.

And on a very practical way, that’s through things like, guilt, which is a is a DDC construct, guilt. Basically all the ways in which we are told that we cannot do things, we should not do things. All these, what I call will hurts, which are actually silt up our connection with power. So my understanding of this is that we are like a torus. So, you know, like the, like the donut. A toroidal field and the love is more like the, the donutey parts. And the will, well it’s the willingness channel basically, which is where, where the power, flows. Which is the power of what you might call the universe, and that gets silted up. So every time as children, we are told that we shouldn’t and we can’t. Every time our frustration, our outrage, our anger is not welcomed. Every time we internalize, I shouldn’t, I mustn’t, I can’t, I have to. All of these concepts, we often get this silting up of our willingness channel. Which means, as adults, we have less of a sense of our true power. So in my work with the Marion Method, I am passionate about supporting people to become more and more connected with who they really are as unique souls of love and will, meaning that we are interconnected with all that is.

But in terms of the will element, each of us is a unique soul. Hello, lovely cicadas. A unique soul here with unique gifts in the world here to share, uniquely here to contribute in unique ways, in whatever way that is. So I’m passionate about supporting people to become more who they really are. And the way I say it is to, to support people to have a personality, a life and relationships that are more of a, um, accurate reflection of their soul. Because the personality we develop in the DDC is often so much, an interaction between who we really are and how we need to be in this culture in order to survive, in order to be loved, belong, be safe, all of those things.

And with the Marion Method work, I support people too still, we need a personality to live in this construct, this world. But for the personality to become more and more, an accurate representation of who we most truly are. Which means we feel more ourselves. We’re able to be more authentic in our lives. To have this deep sense of meaning and purpose and to be contributing in the world in the ways that we feel deeply called to.

So that’s the love and the will. That’s the disconnected domination culture or DDC. And all of life is here in this little part of Mullumbimby with me as I share about this.

Joan: I wanna say thank you for that, Marion, that very full and meaningful explanation.

Marion’s Saturn Return Experience

Joan: And um, I just wanna name that one of the factors that was impacting our capacity to connect and find a time that we could do this is that you are going through a passage. You are going through your second Saturn return, and you and I had spoken about that, and it just seemed like it was this relentless onslaught of very intense and big events happening in your life that just were requiring all of your attention, as I understand it. And

actually, my last episode, I spoke to some extent about Saturn returns and particularly our second Saturn return. And if you’re open to it, if you’re willing, would love to hear your sharing, just your understanding as you’re still in the midst of this for, for any of our listeners who might be in the thick of it themselves. To, to just speak to, we know you are quite an accomplished woman and, and yet it seems you have been, you know, in the storm.

So that it, it’s not about, uh, I, I guess, I guess what I’m trying to say is.

No one comes out unscathed, so to speak when it comes to Saturn if there are things that need to be addressed, um, they show up. No matter how on top of things, we might be going into our Saturn return. And I did speak to some of my own experience in the last episode, which is Embracing Our Third Acts. But I would love to hear from you your firsthand, , download from the front, so to speak, from the front of the Saturn return. What is it that you have to say? And in particular, how you are coming into that experience with the love work and with the will work, how it has been informing that passage for you? So would love to just have you speak to that.

Marion: Ahh, and yes, the double Saturn return, what a humdinger that is. And I turn the light on and I find it how interesting that there’s this, this, um this image here. And again, the cicadas is here. I’m so willing for you to be able to hear clearly despite the, the noise of these beings. And I am sad that I haven’t yet listened to that episode, Joan, because I’m really looking forward to hearing more about your experience. And yes, I, I mean, I think I’m on the tail end.

Who knows how long it’s gonna be. I’m certainly not in the, the, the, the intensest part of that journey, which for me really was, Uh, a combination of a deep questioning of my purpose and meaning, which is very unusual for me. I’ve been connected with what I’m here to do from my uh, late teens. And it’s been like that ever since, which I’m so grateful for because I know that’s not everyone’s experience. But this was a humdinger of really questioning that. Which, you know, I was feeling hopelessness.

I was thinking about leaving everything, just about. All the things that have been meaningful and purposeful for me. And at the same time, I had some very significant physical symptoms and a lot of physical pain. I have a particular modality that I find incredibly helpful. So that was really supporting me in having meaning and purpose about what I was, what was being healed in me, what my beautiful body was doing to heal from.

And a lot of it was, hmm well still this ongoing journey for me about getting clearer and clearer about my yeses and nos. And for me, this is central work in any soul work because for me, the way our soul communicates is through our yeses and nos. That’s how our soul tells us what, what the next step is in our lives.

Hello, lovely cicadas. Yes, hello, lovely wind. So willing for you to still be able to hear clearly. So you asked how the love and the will work was helpful and a lot of it was really listening in with lots and lots of support, listening in to where had I been not really honoring some nos that were very subtle.

What was I really wanting to say no to in terms of these next steps in my life? And actually I really revisited the the inner loving presence process work, which is a core part of the love work. And I was really focusing on a lot of inner loving presences work. So this is a way of mmm, connecting with the, well actually I was doing a lot of the soul versions of people work, so really connecting with the soul versions of people going back to old experiences, long themes, long family themes as will So we also had in the midst of this. mmm, my mom, my mother who’s 94, her brother, uh, left his body at 96 and 12 days later on the funeral of my mom’s brother, her sister then left her body at 98. And there’d been lots in the field as well before with our the animals in our environment. So it was a lot about this sense of my mom now being the matriarch from being the youngest sibling and me revisiting a lot of very old family themes, particularly in relation to loss and fear. And I’m just so grateful for this work. So the love work in terms of my deep, unconditional love for myself and my body. I don’t know how I would’ve got through it as it was. And my heart goes out to anyone with chronic pain because three months of it was, I found a lot. And the will work really in terms of getting clear about my yeses and nos and.

So that the most deepest part of the physical pain and the emotional pain and the hopelessness was, I don’t, I don’t really have a sense of time. I don’t really count time, but it was, I don’t know, I could guess maybe six weeks or something. So I’m still definitely still moving with things coming into this sense of integration and, um, all of this.

Coming into the physical realms, but that’s really what I’m experienced so far. And yeah, I’m just so grateful to have understood at near the beginning of it, oh my gosh, this is what was happening. I remembered my, mentor Roger Evans sharing about his experience of it in the Psychosynthesis training, and I was so grateful to have the understanding of what I was going through.

It’s so helpful, isn’t it, having these maps and models of rites of passage and developmental changes and shifts I think are life changing.

Joan: Hmm. Yes.

So I’m remembering that you did phrase your experience in part as a dark night of the soul, and I certainly felt that for myself as well. My own second Saturn return was quite a dark night of the soul when things really hit the fan. So. Thank you for being willing to share your experience here with us.

I know it will be deeply helpful and meaningful to many people, and I know that you have, which I, I found to be true for myself. It’s like coming through that passage and out the other side that, that you are creating. Some new forms for your work.

New Teachings Emerging from the Dark Night

Joan: You are creating some new offerings and would love if you could tell us about, uh, the teachings or about the elements of these offers that you’re feeling called to do now and how this transition.

Through this passage, this dark night of the soul is illuminating your work and just what is it you’re feeling deeply called to share with the world now, and how are these a reflection of who you are at this stage of your life and your work?

Marion: Uh, yes. The Dark Night of the Soul. Absolutely. That’s absolutely been my experience. And yes, in terms of the new clarity, I mean, I’ve been really focusing a lot on my role as an Aware Parenting instructor and the regional coordinator for Australian New Zealand and Indonesia, as you said, and writing books about Aware Parenting.

And every time I felt drawn to move towards sharing a deepening my sharings about the Marion Method, I had this sense of life saying, yes sweetheart, we know you to do that, but actually we’ve got more for you to do over here. And the big part of that, moving through, Hello cicadas. This dark night of the soul, this double Saturn Return is really centering myself rather than being centered in Aware Parenting with Marion Method, the Marion Method is an extra, really having a sense of centering myself in the unique work that I’m bringing to the world.

So in the Marion Method work. Still, I’m still passionate about Aware Parenting. I still am gonna be sharing lots about it. And I had the sense of, ah, now is the time. Now is the time. And I’ve had ideas for particular offerings for years, for since 2020. I had some very strong callings to create, offerings and books in particular about True Power.

So I’ve got some sense now that now I, I was, I knew back then, I started actually creating a course on True Power and I was like, Hmm, nope, I’m not ready. I’m not ready. I’m not in the place for myself to really, to really offer these teachings in the truly embodied way. And now I am. So I’ve got various ideas about books and courses that are, that are coming to me, various titles, finishing, uh, and putting out to the world a Psycho-spiritual Re-parenting book that I wrote back in 2019.

I think I’ve got this half written book on the Willingness Work, which is really about understanding the power of our yeses and the creative force of those. And what willingness is compared to manifestation. Uh, it’s a very different map and model compared to how most people see that type of work. And, oh, it’s a lovely bat.

Yesterday, my, it was the, my dad’s birthday, he left his body, 16 years ago and I asked him to communicate with me and he came as a bat and he, here he is again. Lovely, lovely Bat, lovely Dad. And you know, thinking about bats and how they’re perceived in this world. And it was also Halloween yesterday as will So hello Dad. Um, wow. So I’ve never seen a bat as clearly as I had. We have them flying over right now and every night, but I’ve never seen one as clearly as how they move in the trees and. I saw it last night and now I’m seeing another one tonight. Totally different place.

Conversations with Life, the DDC and Women’s Power

Marion: So this work is not only about the Love Work and the Will Work, it’s also about what I call Conversations with Life.

So that’s why I include the cicadas, the plane, the bat. Because there not just a kind of ideas way, my experience is that everything that’s happening, the fact that this light is on, looks very Saturnian to me. The bat, my dad, the bat’s coming over the cicadas, in and out the plane. That, that we are always in a holographic reality.

Life is constantly communicating with us. So you can see the bats too. And you know, that’s really been our experience here too, hasn’t it? With this, conversation it really wanted to be in a particular way. And my sense is it, it wants to be here in the wildness and in the reality of nature.

And for me, part of that, so this is what I’m gonna share from this now experience is. I am also called to share about, particularly for women, women in the DDC and this whole process of aging and power and how the DDC, there are pivotal moments in our lives as women where the portal for our power is strongest and where the DDC has most, desire to disconnect us from it. One is at, uh, puberty, as young women. Think of all the energy of young women that goes towards boy bands, for example. Imagine that energy being used in service of life. And you could say, boy, bands might be, and I’m not saying it isn’t, but there the next portal is, pregnancy and birth.

Again, DDC does a lot to trick women into believing they’re not powerful. And the next one is, uh, around menopause and post-menopausal women, because holy moly, we get more and more powerful as we care less and less what the DDC thinks and what anyone thinks. And then my sense is my mum’s in this stage, uh, the, the eldership, the next stage of eldership.

So I’m really having a sense that it will be increasingly cool to share more about that too. And my apologies because as it’s getting darker, you can see me less clearly. And again, I’m just gonna trust that that one is what wants to be here. A lot of my, anytime I do recordings, I seem to be given the mmm, information that life doesn’t want me to do things in quiet studios.

Because it just seems almost impossible to create that.

The Healing in Our Exchange

Marion: So that’s a little bit about the callings and I’m excited to see how they unfold. So thank you for the question, Joan, and I’m so loving the conversation, even though we’re not here in, in consecutive time. We’re at, at time together, I really have the sense of us being here together.

Joan: Thank you for that, Marion. I know that many are going to be reached and transformed. You have such a cultivated wisdom around the power of relating and deeply meeting the other person and deeply meeting yourself. And I do want to share that with the many exchanges that Marion and I have had over these last I guess four months at this point. There were times when Marion was concerned about how I was receiving her situation or the lack of progress, and repeatedly she would say to me or she would correspond to me, I, “I welcome all of your feelings about this”.

Joan: And I have to say just the, the healing aspect of having someone, particularly in a professional setting acknowledge whether it was, um, that there might be disappointment or frustration or anger, but to, to have an open door policy, an open heart policy of, I welcome all of your feelings, was in fact deeply, deeply healing for me. And that is something you are a master of. You are a master of transmitting that and that work. And what an antidote for this disconnected domination centered culture. So powerful antidote.

Multi-Generational Living

Joan: So the final piece I would love to ask you about, because I’m aware that your own journey and, and you can speak to this as much or as little as you would like, uh, with the mother infant relationship went back to your very own experience with your mother as an infant. And just the tending and the healing, the inspiration that perhaps some lacks you experienced in that as an infant inspired your own work in such a powerful way.

And now here you are all these years later with your mother, who I believe is 94 at this point, who is living with you in your home as well as your two young adult children. So there you are in this multi-generational family living situation and being, being that center point in a way with each generation. The generation before you and the generation you are stewarding. And in, in many ways you are stewarding, I would say both, uh, both generations at this point. And certainly there are many women who might not necessarily be all living under the same roof, but who are in the position of what they call the sandwich generation, where tending to aging parents or tending to kids. But because of the nature of your work, because of the exquisite way that you cultivate relationship, if you’re willing, I would love to hear you share about your experience with all this. With having your young adult children who are, growing and becoming their own people and the way, yeah, the way you’ve shared about each of them in different ways. And then with your mother. So is there anything. That feels like you would like to share with us about this experience.

Because you have created what seems like a, a sanctuary space, frankly, for Lineage and for your family. And not many of us necessarily have that experience. So. Not sure what I’m getting at, but I’m kind of poking around it and would love to just hear how you respond to that.

Navigating Life’s Challenges and Embracing Chaos

Joan: And I know being in Australia that you’ve had some very serious things occur with like life changing floods and fires years before that. And then the whole COVID, lockdowns were very, very extreme. And, and so has that colored how you’ve been with your family or has it impacted the choice to have you all together? I would just love to hear you speak to whatever extent you would like to about this for us.

Marion: Joan, before I respond to, your last question, I would also really love to respond to what you said about our interactions and how much you appreciated me saying many times, I’m so here to listen to any feelings you have in relation to all the delays and the disappearances. And I’ve been doing that a lot recently because of all that, I’ve been through a lot of repairing, a lot of offering empathy, a lot of listening to how my, often not responding to people has affected them.

And I’d really love to say, you know, again, this is key to the getting free from guilt and shame work basically. Because many years ago I was so terrified to have any kind of effect or impact on others that I virtually didn’t speak because I was so, I was hitting my, what I call the shame sticks. I was hitting myself so much with shame sticks and guilt sticks, that it was unbearable for me to hear anything from anybody in terms of how I might have affected them.

So I was kind of paralyzed into this sense of just needing to say yes all the time. And after a lot of work, I’m now comfortable to say, I am so sorry. I really deeply acknowledge how long it is since you’ve heard from me or since you’ve received an email and I’m so here to listen to all your feelings about it.

And I’ve been needing to do that a lot recently and still absolutely there are still some younger parts that sometimes come up and actually feel scared when they imagine someone perhaps having really big feelings. But, but I do not hit myself with guilt or shame sticks. So there might be some fear from younger parts, but in general, that isn’t the case.

I’m just like, I’m so here to listen. And again, that’s so central. If we’re gonna be able to say yes, we may have a yes and no, and we have a no. Part of that is also, um, freeing ourselves from those sticks so we can listen to the other person’s feelings if we say no to them. If we are willing, if we are willing to. There’s no have to. So I just wanted to, I really wanted to respond to that little bit before the last question.

And look, we’re moving into the darkness. Again. I’m just gonna. Uh, I’m sending. So I would like to say, Joan, I’m sending you love right now. If you have any feelings in relation to the sound quality, the light quality, um, whatever’s happening here, and I’m here to listen to however this is for you. And I’m gonna listen to your next question, which I’ve listened to a little bit of.

Ahh I feel so touched when I listen to you say that, Joan, and there are some storms coming now. So again, I’m just trusting this. I’m here in the darkness as is so apt for, um, um, yeah, the feminine. The being in the darkness and welcoming the beauty of the darkness. And I smiled when you said sanctuary.

It’s a word I’ve been using a lot in terms of animals. I have a lot of Wild animals and, um, domesticated animals in and around my house, as you’ve probably heard. And so sanctuary has been really coming to me a lot. And I actually said today I actually have, I have a sanctuary. I’ve been saying I want an animal sanctuary.

And I really claim today that I have, uh, a sanctuary for animals. Snakes are not welcome. Everyone else is. Well I’m gonna say everyone else so far. All the ones that I love are welcome.

And I love what you said about the sanctuary, I think you said, for like for your, for your lineage.

The Beauty of Aging and Personal Growth

Marion: And Yes, it’s been so healing, particularly for me, me and my mum, to go from the incubator experience of extreme separation.

We were also separated for a year and a half when I was nine, 10. And so this upper house here is actually my mom and me and my daughter, and down in what used to be the granny flat after the floods, and it got completely renovated. My mom moved up here, everything was ripped out, started all over again.

Now my son lives down there, so we’ve actually got the, the three generations of women up here, my son down in, in the, in the lower level. Um. And really what I’ve come to from it is the deep healing that that continues. The opportunity that happens at any age. My mum totally inspires me. I’m inspired by her every day.

I was just sharing this today actually is mmm for example, actually with my mentor, I was sharing it today. For example, just the other day we were eating dinner and she said to me, I notice I just want to fill the space with talking. And I’m not going to, I’m just going to pause. I’m going to just be here with you.

And we had a little conversation about that and that’s something that I’ve been working with for a long time and I, over quite a few years ago, I would just point out to her gently when she was doing that. And then for the last few years I haven’t really said anything about it. And I just love that 94 she is just becoming more and more connected to her true nature as love and will. Basically becoming more powerful at 94 than she was at 74, 54. And being willing to see these things. We, we have funny conversations all the time about are you willing. Because she I mean, I, I had more ability to coerce myself than anyone I knew, and I learned that from her.

And so often we are like, oh, are you willing? Are you willing? Are you, oh, I want to, the kitchen’s chaos. Are you willing? Am I willing to do anything? No, I’m not. So we have these wonderful conversations. And again, I think, actually, this is the other thing I wanted to say, There’s been this massive process.

And again, I feel so touched hearing your understanding with the but we had fires and floods and, um, all kinds of weather events, and it has had a big effect on me. And in terms of the, the chaos.

I’ve basically from a woman who, a young woman who really needed order, uh, it was really basically the way I would dissociate from feelings. And I, I needed to have a sense of order also in terms of feeling some degree of power. To life really inviting me to be deeply comfortable with complete dis, I don’t even like the word disorder. Dis dis in front of anything. Chaos. I prefer chaos, complete chaos. So on or off, most of the time for the last five years, we have lived in some degree of chaos with major renovations, but still got a lot of boxes everywhere.

The renovations are coming to this next lot are coming to an end, but to me that’s also part of getting free from DDC conditioning. Because again, I think the DDC has this, it really values the, the maiden age. It values, uh, houses that are in are new that it values spring. And what I’ve really learnt to value is all the stages and ages and to see beauty as much in chaos as in order.

Beauty as much in, um, my age as in a 20-year-old. Oh, look at the storms brewing. To see the beauty in the wildness and the chaos and stuff everywhere. As much as in things being all tidy and ordered. And for me, again, that’s part of really, um, the gifts of the aging process and getting free from disconnected domination, culture conditioning, which is all about perfection and nice and good and doing what we’re told and all of those things.

So it’s been really tough, actually. Tough. I, I tell myself it’s been hard and there’s been a lot of big feelings and a lot of descent, descent to the soul. And I’m so grateful for where I am as a result.

Concluding Reflections and Appreciations

Marion: So I’m really touched, I really touched, I really experienced, my need to be deeply seen, met by you Joan. Thank you for, for pulling out and teasing out basically so many of the elements that have been called for me over the past while. So thank you for that. Thank you for what I see as one of your beautiful gifts in terms of clarity and , seeing, seeing what is emerging as most significant.

See the lightning and the storm coming now.

Thank you so much Joan. I have so enjoyed it and yes. Oh I love that audio visual pen pals. And I really loved what you said at the beginning as will this sense of a returning to an older time of communication where it was back and forth and there was this time, which I often kind of hark back to, of receiving a a message and, and it really permeating into us and sinking into us, and then responding. Rather than this kind of immediate back and forth that we’re so used to. Which is also beautiful. But the gifts of, reclaiming the older way of communicating. So thank you so much. I’ve really enjoyed it. And yes, I’m, I I, I imagine and trust that one day we’ll have a more traditional, uh, meeting.

And so thank you so much for you and what you do. And, um, and lots of love to the listeners too.

Joan: So Marion, I want to thank you for going on this adventure. This audio visual, pen pal, wise women exchange of ideas and wisdom with me and with us to create this episode.

I do feel like the love work and particularly the will work, which I am not hearing anybody else speaking about, to me feel like two very foundational crone codes. In addition to all the other pieces that you have named for us.

But I want to thank you for taking the time to create this episode with me. And perhaps at some point in the future we’ll have an opportunity to do it in a more traditional way. But I want to thank you nonetheless.

And I want to thank you, dear listener, for being with us. And I want to remind you that whether you are making ripples in your life or big waves, that you are love and you are loved.

Joan shares inspiring stories of remarkable individuals like Louise Hay, Rebecca Lattimer, and Laura Ingalls Wilder who found their true calling later in life. The episode encourages listeners, particularly those in their fifties and beyond, to trust their vision, act on their calling and pursue their unfulfilled dreams. Joan also touches on the concept of Saturn returns and how this astrological phenomenon influences our life’s purpose. Tune in to gain motivation and insight into making your own impactful ripples in the world, no matter your age.

00:00 Welcome to The Crone Codes

00:41 Understanding Late Bloomers and Third Acts

02:50 Inspiring Stories of Late Bloomers

13:36 The Significance of Saturn Return

19:33 Embracing Your Third Act

24:19 Support and Encouragement for Your Journey

25:37 Closing Thoughts and Community Invitation

*To access the Anchor Your Vision Process and go deeper into these crone codes subscribe to our low cost Crone Codes Bonus Community Membership to receive all of the tools, prompts, resources + bonus surprises curated just for you.

Schedule a free Exploratory Visioning Call with Joan.
We’ll take 30 minutes or so to discuss where you are on your journey and what you need assistance with at this time. I will recommend possibilities for your next steps. Lastly, we will co-discern if working together is in alignment.

Explore Joan’s personal Crone Codes revelations, reflections + episode backstories and photos at Joan Advent Substack

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Discussed in this episode:

Hay House Publishing
You Can Heal Your Life by Louise Hay
You’re Not Old Until You’re 90 by Rebecca Lattimer
Little House in the Big Woods by Laura Ingalls Wilder
The Moth Podcast
Saturn Return

Transcript

Hello, and welcome back to the Crone Codes. I’m your host, the creator and resident Crone Joan Advent.

I wanted to talk with you today about late bloomers and third acts in our life. I would consider myself a late bloomer, and now that I’m familiar with my human design, I can understand why that is the case.

If you know anything about that model of, understanding who we are as people. I am a six line, in my profile, I’m a two six. And part of being a six line is that my full fruition of what I’m here to share with the world is not, set to show up until much later in my life, actually in my fifties. And now that I am beginning, the dawning of my sixties, I can see the way that it’s coming in even stronger.

So today, this episode is for anyone, but it’s particularly for you if you are entering the third act of your life or you are in the third act of your life and you’re wondering, do I have something to contribute? Is there more that I’m meant to do with my life? If you’ve had visions or dreams that have been lingering over the past few decades, is it too late?

So I wanted to share some stories of women that you may have heard about and maybe some that you haven’t. And also, one other person who happens to be a man. I want to share a little bit of their story that I have come to understand and then just give you some reflections about that.

So I want to begin with Louise Hay. Many people are familiar with Louise Hay’s book, you Can Heal Your Life and Hay House Publishing. And would it surprise you to learn that both the book and the publishing house, Hay House both came out when she was in her late fifties, 57, 58. Just coming out of emerging from her Saturn return. And the prolific writing that she did and really the substantial legacy and ripple effect that she created all began in that third act of life. And it was as it is for many of us, a distillation and a culmination of all the wisdom she had gathered up to that point.

I also want to share with you, there is a book that actually I listened to as an audio book, but that has been a foundation for me for decades. I think I found it probably in my early forties. And the name of the book is called, You’re Not Old until You’re 90 : Best to be Prepared, However. Something like that. And the author is named Rebecca Lattimer. And Rebecca Lattimer and this book came to my attention through one of Sark’s books. If you’re familiar with Sark, who wrote, Succulent Wild Woman and, , many, many creative and beautiful books over the years. She had mentioned Rebecca and her book.

You’re Not Old until You’re 90, in her book, in Sark’s book, and so it inspired me. I’m not sure which of Sark’s books it is mentioned in, but yeah. I have a number of them. Uh, suffice to say it’s in one of them. And if I’m very enterprising, I will link it in the show notes. I will link Rebecca’s book, but if I’m very enterprising, I will also link Sark’s book as well.

So back to Rebecca. Rebecca Lattimer lived a very full life as an ambassador’s wife. She raised children. She, she had a full life as a wife and mother. And at the point when most people would consider retiring in her mid sixties, she learned how to meditate, and this was in the seventies. She got heavily into following Alan Watts and that whole kind of new consciousness wave that was happening back then.

So she learned to meditate and she also began writing. And her book is this incredible story of the, the rebirth, the reemergence, the new life that can often be created at that stage of life. And at 92, she was the voice of her audio book, You’re Not Old Until You’re 90. And I have always found that book to be such an inspiration, and frankly, it’s probably the book I have recommended most to clients, and in part because it provides a benchmark. And certainly for me as someone who feels like a late bloomer, that it’s been a benchmark for me when I have felt downcast or dispirited at what I would call uh, feeling like a lack of progress towards this big vision or mission or purpose I felt I had for my life. I would go back and remember Rebecca Lattimer and think I’m nowhere near 65 yet. Who knows what’s going to happen or what I may create between now and then. Particularly when I was in the phase of intensively in the roles of wife and mother, when I didn’t have a lot of bandwidth to devote to, uh, other legacies or other creative expressions for myself. So I do highly recommend the book if you haven’t already received that recommendation from me in the past. And even if you have, it’s a great one to revisit.

I also want to bring up, I recently learned that Laura Ingalls Wilder published her first book and began writing. I, I don’t know if she began writing at 65, but I know she published her first book, Little House in the Big Woods in 1932 when she was 65 years old.

And the thing I love about her story, Number one, the impetus for her writing and the support for her writing actually came from her daughter. Her daughter recognized, the wisdom and the gifts that Laura had. And this was during the time of the Depression and she and her husband, Almanzo were broke farmers. They had lost their farm during the depression, and so they were living with their daughter Rose.

And Rose encouraged Laura to begin writing down stories or memories from her childhood, and then she also helped edit and shape and shift them from first person narratives to third person, expressions of a story. And now all these years later, it’s a hundred million dollar franchise.

And the books, her books, which took off in the hearts of families and children for what? 70 plus years? 80 plus years at this point. That’s a series that I, I loved reading with my daughter. Reading the entire, the entire series I just couldn’t get enough of those books. So all these years later, a hundred million dollar franchise.

And before her death, which was in the nineties, just like Rebecca Lattimer, she saw considerable success. So I just want to offer that as just an inspiring story. And then finally, this is not a woman and not someone who got started in their sixties, but if you’re familiar with the Moth Storytelling Podcast, which frankly is one of my top two favorite podcasts of all times, the Moth Storytelling Podcast. The founder is a gentleman named George Dawes Green, who is a writer who comes from the south and came from a long history of storytelling on the front porch with moths flying around the porch light.

And he, back in the nineties, started gathering people in his living room to share stories. And then I believe in 1996 or 97, he created a nonprofit that became the Moth, which was dedicated to storytelling. And if you’re not familiar again with the podcast, I highly recommend it.

It has a global reach. I, I don’t know what continent, I think every single continent, with the exception of Antarctica. I know there are stories about visiting Antarctica, but I don’t think there have been any recorded there. But there have been beautiful, transformational, empowering moth story events on every continent in the world. And it has brought healing and transformation in so many beautiful and powerful ways.

So why am I sharing that? I’m sharing that because it was a simple impulse to recreate something precious from his own life. Which was that history of spending southern nights on the front porch with friends telling stories that this incredible worldwide phenomenon was created, this incredible ripple effect. So each of these people that I have shared about have had a profound ripple effect. And I am certainly someone who has aspired to have a profound ripple effect.

And in ways this podcast is an effort to do that. It is a form of creative expression. It’s also a form of service that is the intent anyway. And it is a form of, um, self-love, frankly. And I just want to name, with the exception of George Dawes Green, each of these women emerged and began creating after their second Saturn return.

I am not going to do a deep dive into the concept of Saturn return. But suffice to say that our Saturn return is a passage we each experience when the planet Saturn returns to the place in the sky where it was at the time of our birth. So if we live long enough, we go through a few Saturn returns in the course of our life.

We go through the first one between the ages of 27 and 30. We go through a second one in our late fifties as we’re approaching 60. And then if we live long enough, we go through a third later in our eighties as we approach 90. And Saturn is a bit of a task master, and it is the planet that makes sure we are on track.

And the first Saturn return has a whole lot to do with are we on track with our life purpose? And as I understand it and have lived through it, Our second Saturn return is a revisiting of that, and it is a clearing out of anything that gets in the way of moving forward in the way we are intended to do for the next passage of Saturn around the sun to return back to the place in the sky where it was at the time in our birth. And the significance of that. I will say I certainly have worked with a number of women who have lived through, who are living through their second Saturn return.

In fact, I have an interview coming up . Our, next guest, Marion Rose, Her interview will be coming out on the 7th of November, is right in the heat of her Saturn return. And it can be a time of immense, dissolving and falling away. And, and I can only speak for myself, but it was the time where I felt the most profound sense of being in the chrysalis and dissolving into the goo. And anything that I had previously thought about in some ways, who I was, what I was meant to be doing with my life, just any sense of direction was dissolving and falling away.

And for many years, as I said, I have aspired to be of service in a profound way and to, to really reach as far as as I possibly can. And one of my realizations, uh, during my Saturn return was that if the only thing I do in this life is to love myself and to learn to love myself and to profoundly love myself, that that would be enough.

And I could recognize and I could see that part of my ambition, to be of service in a significant way, in a profound way. There were aspects of it that were rooted in my ego needs to be worthwhile, to be worthy, to have my life mean something and be of value. And while at this point, I do see the value in making my contribution there was something important for me in coming to that recognition, the most important thing for me to do was to come back to my relationship with myself and to really embrace and love myself as fully as I possibly could.

And so this journey of the Crone Codes and this podcast, because as I’ve said before, I did have a previous podcast, Trust Your Sacred Feminine Flow that I began in 2016 and I completed in 2021.

So these two podcasts bookmarked my Saturn return. And so as I’m emerging , as I am beginning the journey of sharing the second podcast in a way. It can’t help but come from a very different place in me. But one of the most significant pieces is the fullness and the love and the care I feel for myself.

Also, I have a much greater sense of clarity and direction and purpose. And it’s an act of both creative expression and service. A call to share the wisdom of my years and a call to connect women like you with resources that are meaningful for your journey and with people, , who I interview that I feel have important wisdom teachings and codes to share with you as well.

So all that being said, coming back to our third acts and late bloomers, I want to speak to you in particular, if you have been unclear about what you’re meant to do. I want to speak to you if you feel like there’s something more you’re yearning to express in the world, or perhaps that God is calling you to embody or to share. Whether it is in a simple format like George Dawes Green, beginning the Moth just gathering people in his living room to tell stories. Or whether it is to write the book, to finally write the book that you know you’re meant to write. Or perhaps it’s to offer yoga or to, begin sharing ecstatic dance in your area. There, there can be so many things.

Society is, is sending a constant message to us. And certainly if you have friends or if you’re someone who has been living a more traditional life. I would say similar to Rebecca Lattimer although her life was not super traditional. But say for example, you’re surrounded by people who have been in the corporate world or who have been employed at a job, who are looking at this later stage of life as a time to retire and kick back and put their feet up and uh, travel the world or enjoy life. And there is nothing wrong with that, at all. However, from what I have seen and understand that most of those people, once they kind of get that out of their system a little bit, do return to the point of wanting to be of service in some way or wanting to participate in something meaningful.

So today’s episode is really a stand for that and a reminder that you get to have that. That there is a beautiful ripple effect that happens in the world. And again, not from the ego perspective of, of that’s how we’re going to earn our worthiness in this life that we’re going to create something profound or meaningful or great. But it is that both and of by loving yourself and committing to expressing creatively in whatever form that looks like for you, which could, be through volunteerism, it could be through your church, it could be through creating a summer camp for children or whatever the case may be.

I am here as a reminder and a stand for you to trust that vision of your heart and your soul, and those yearning to create something or to be present in the world in a different way. You do not have to be complicit or surrender to the narrative of now’s the time to kick back and work on your pickleball and your soduko, or however you say it.

Not that there’s anything wrong with that. But, but you don’t have to do it the traditional way. You may just be getting started like Laura Ingles Wilder, like Rebecca Lattimer and like Louise Hay. You might just be getting started and it might snowball into a hundred million dollars franchise. Or it might snowball into a legacy that has a profound impact on the world.

And if what it does is it embraces you with love and it gives other people permission to do the same thing, and that is the entirety of, of what is, completed through that, That is way more than enough. It’s way more than enough.

So my dear, as we bring this to a close, one of the things that I personally love to do is to support people in their visions of, creating or birthing what is wanting to come through them.

I do offer consultations and one-on-one work that, can provide a framework, a structure, a support, a sounding board, and also the assistance to move through what frequently is the inner layers of whether it’s resistance, fear, old beliefs, whatever it might be that would tell you. This is not a good idea. You don’t want to to take this risk. You don’t want to get out of your comfort zone. You can be like Susie Q down the street and play pickleball every day, or play cards every day, or whatever the case may be.

So I will put a link in the show notes if you’re interested in getting some one-on-one support I’m here for that.

I’m a stand for that. I am here for you.

And until we meet again, I want to remind you whether you are making ripples or big waves in this world, that you are love and you are loved.

My commitment when I started The Crone Codes podcast was to only serve what is real, true and vital. I would rather offer authentic and unfiltered to those who are hungry for it than empty and artificial to the masses.

I will not settle for anything other than what nourishes my own and others flourishing.

This stance is a breakthrough for me. Not that I have ever consciously wanted to serve empty and artificial. But there is something in my Crone that will not tolerate watered down and palatable no matter who feels uncomfortable with the real thing.

She wants to get to the heart of things and unleash what’s been hidden or repressed. So it made total sense that she would line up Jenn Koch as my interview as we’re just rolling out of the Crone Codes station.

Jenn’s work with shedding shame, activating alter ego’s and creating reclamation ceremony was like music to my Crone’s ears. And interestingly, my inner maiden’s as well.

They both have lived too long with the weight of being good and playing it safe. Jenn’s bold stance as the Style Dominatrix (her own alter ego) has been an invitation to unapologetically take up space and honor all of me (us).

It takes me back to my favorite Mary Oliver excerpt from her poem Wild Geese:

“You do not have to be good.
You do not have to walk on your knees for a hundred miles through the desert, repenting.
You only have to let the soft animal of your body love what it loves.”

Let the soft animal of your body love what it loves.

And I would add, let your heart love what it loves.
And let your soul long for what it longs for.

Because those are the things that nourish us so fully we can flourish.

They are the superfood for the body, heart and soul.

And as one who has spent lifetimes depriving myself or doing without as a spiritual practice my Crone has made it clear we are closing the book on that.

The photos above are from Jenn’s recent launch party for her new book:
Radiant SO WHY Are you Still Single?

The whole experience was deeply nourishing for my soul - surrounded by beauty, fun and thoughtful games and exercises, deep sharing, rich and real conversation and yummy food and drinks.

Like a mini retreat rolled into 2 hours - my kind of social gathering. Truly this event and my interview with Jenn stirred something vital within me.

I hope it does for you as well.

It’s our birthright to flourish. Prioritizing what nourishes that state of flourishing is a sacred act. As we flourish, particularly as women, the ripple effect uplifts the whole collective.

To take a step toward Discovering the Roots of your Alter Ego for free check out the Crone Codes Bonus Community Membership. For $8 per month you can access the archive and receive new tools, prompts, resources + bonus surprises curated just for you. You can cancel at anytime.

In case you missed it listen to Episode 4 Alter your Style and Radiate your Essence.

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Jenn revealed her unique approach to deep transformation and style combining fashion, spirituality, and play. She also highlights her upcoming reclamation experiences in Iceland and Paris, offering listeners a chance to join her in a journey of full self expression.

We discussed the connection of our Crone and our inner maiden; conflicting desires to both be seen and stay hidden; the liberation of shedding old identities and reclaiming our true self, as well as Jenn’s new book, Radiant SO WHY Are you still Single?

Jenn’s insights and experiences offer valuable lessons on self-discovery, empowerment, and unleashing our hidden potential.

00:31 Introducing Jenn Koch of Stylegasm
03:22 The Birth of the Style Dominatrix
06:35 Exploring Alter Egos
09:41 Client Transformations and Creative Expressions
16:07 The Shame Drawer Story
22:35 Reclaiming Power and Reinvention
25:10 2026 Reclamation Experiences
25:26 Erlendur: Iceland Fashion Show
26:51 Whale Medicine
28:18 Paris Fashion Immersion
30:09 Radiant Book Overview
31:02 The Shedding Process
33:23 The Glow Up Phase
34:37 The Reclamation Phase
41:42 Client Success Story: The Red Trench Coat

Jenn’s Website: Have a Stylegasm

* Access Jenn’s Bonus Content and subscribe to our paid Crone Codes Bonus Community Membership to go deeper into the Crone Codes with tools, prompts, resources + bonus surprises curated just for you.

Read Joan’s latest Crone Codes revelations, reflections + episode backstories: Joan Advent Substack