<script data-pm-proxy="intercept"></script><?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/" xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/" xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom" version="2.0" xmlns:itunes="http://www.itunes.com/dtds/podcast-1.0.dtd" xmlns:googleplay="http://www.google.com/schemas/play-podcasts/1.0"><channel><title><![CDATA[Lewistown Capital]]></title><description><![CDATA[Software investing]]></description><link>https://lewistowncapital.substack.com</link><image><url>https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!huDc!,w_256,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F12245b70-7f17-4af6-99f3-1ff80fde9af2_918x918.png</url><title>Lewistown Capital</title><link>https://lewistowncapital.substack.com</link></image><generator>Substack</generator><lastBuildDate>Tue, 01 Sep 2026 20:23:25 GMT</lastBuildDate><atom:link href="/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml"/><copyright><![CDATA[Ryan Seawell]]></copyright><language><![CDATA[en]]></language><webMaster><![CDATA[lewistowncapital@substack.com]]></webMaster><itunes:owner><itunes:email><![CDATA[lewistowncapital@substack.com]]></itunes:email><itunes:name><![CDATA[Ryan Seawell]]></itunes:name></itunes:owner><itunes:author><![CDATA[Ryan Seawell]]></itunes:author><googleplay:owner><![CDATA[lewistowncapital@substack.com]]></googleplay:owner><googleplay:email><![CDATA[lewistowncapital@substack.com]]></googleplay:email><googleplay:author><![CDATA[Ryan Seawell]]></googleplay:author><itunes:block><![CDATA[Yes]]></itunes:block><item><title><![CDATA[Revisiting Veeva #2]]></title><description><![CDATA[Evaluating Veeva's AI Vision, Compass Opportunity and Valuation]]></description><link>https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/p/revisiting-veeva-2</link><guid isPermaLink="false">https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/p/revisiting-veeva-2</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[Ryan Seawell]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2026 12:35:29 GMT</pubDate><enclosure url="https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!JQyn!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fed635b04-1393-42ba-bbc4-bcd10fa3460b_3756x2088.png" length="0" type="image/jpeg"/><content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Disclaimers: I&#8217;m long Veeva; this is not investment advice</em></p><div><hr></div><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;Building reliable industry-specific AI across a wide range of use cases for a highly regulated industry is hard. It takes time, focus, and the right skills. It integrates proprietary datasets, sophisticated logic, validated processes, and depends on specialized domain expertise and safeguards to maintain compliance and data integrity. If done well, our agents will provide significant value for customers and Veeva.&#8221; </em></p><p><em>&#8212; Veeva&#8217;s Q4&#8217;FY26 prepared remarks</em></p></blockquote><p>To date, Veeva has generated little, if any, revenue directly tied to AI. But while Veeva has been perhaps a little slow to capitalize on AI vs. certain other &#8220;applied AI&#8221; winners (e.g. Cursor, OpenEvidence, Harvey, Sierra, etc.), I think the opportunity is still ripe for AI in life sciences and that Veeva is well positioned to capitalize on it.</p><div class="subscription-widget-wrap-editor" data-attrs="{&quot;url&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/subscribe?&quot;,&quot;text&quot;:&quot;Subscribe&quot;,&quot;language&quot;:&quot;en&quot;}" data-component-name="SubscribeWidgetToDOM"><div class="subscription-widget show-subscribe"><div class="preamble"><p class="cta-caption">Thanks for reading Lewistown Capital! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work.</p></div><form class="subscription-widget-subscribe"><input type="email" class="email-input" name="email" placeholder="Type your email&#8230;" tabindex="-1"><input type="submit" class="button primary" value="Subscribe"><div class="fake-input-wrapper"><div class="fake-input"></div><div class="fake-button"></div></div></form></div></div><p>Veeva being slower to capture the AI opportunity is not necessarily surprising: (1) there is extreme regulatory complexity in life sciences, and thus AI solutions that touch clinical/post-clinical processes need extra time to bake, (2) as you&#8217;ll see below, the degree of difficulty on their AI opportunities I think is a tick (or two) higher than perhaps some of the &#8220;lower hanging fruit&#8221; captured by the AI-natives listed above, and (3) Veeva was also a bit slow to react on AI initially.</p><p><em>Veeva&#8217;s AI Vision</em></p><p>Veeva&#8217;s AI vision has come a lot more into focus over the last 12 months. In Nov-26, Veeva will &#8220;early release&#8221; Falcon, their agentic platform. Falcon looks like it will initially have 4 key areas of &#8220;applied AI,&#8221; which I detail below. Each area seems primed for an AI solution, where Veeva&#8217;s agentic offering should be &#8220;better, faster &amp; cheaper&#8221; than the human labor alternative (at least over time, if not immediately). And all of these areas are at least reasonably sizable. </p><ul><li><p>Safety Case Intake &amp; Processing. I touched on this opportunity in my <a href="/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/p/revisiting-veeva">last post</a> on Veeva. It remains the cleanest and largest agentic opportunity for Veeva for now. Pharma companies are required to meticulously track and report on &#8220;adverse events&#8221; that are reported (through a range of different channels) for the drugs they sell. The process of collecting, summarizing, triaging and even making causation determinations around adverse events (a process also known as &#8220;pharmacovigilance&#8221;) is a ~$10bn market that is ripe for automation. Further, the surrounding Safety application suite is an area in which Veeva is taking share despite an incredibly risk-averse set of buyers. As we can see below, Veeva has increased its count of top 20 pharma from 2 to 6 over just the last ~1.5 years.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!JQyn!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fed635b04-1393-42ba-bbc4-bcd10fa3460b_3756x2088.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!JQyn!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fed635b04-1393-42ba-bbc4-bcd10fa3460b_3756x2088.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!JQyn!, 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fed635b04-1393-42ba-bbc4-bcd10fa3460b_3756x2088.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!JQyn!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fed635b04-1393-42ba-bbc4-bcd10fa3460b_3756x2088.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!JQyn!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fed635b04-1393-42ba-bbc4-bcd10fa3460b_3756x2088.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!JQyn!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fed635b04-1393-42ba-bbc4-bcd10fa3460b_3756x2088.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" fetchpriority="high"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" 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y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Given the trajectory, perhaps Veeva can ramp to at least half of the top-20s in the coming years, which will allow Veeva to service the majority of this market with its agentic case processing offering. If the AI case processing opportunity amounts to just 20% of this $10bn market, that&#8217;s a $2bn opportunity. </p></li><li><p>Agentic TMF<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-1" href="#footnote-1" target="_self">1</a><a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-2" href="#footnote-2" target="_self">2</a> (clinical trial document intake &amp; quality control). I also discussed the opportunity in TMF in my last Veeva post. Clinical trials generate troves and troves of documents (in the tens if not hundreds of millions annually, according to management). These documents need to be checked for quality and properly categorized into an eTMF (electronic Trial Master File). This is highly rote work, much of which is outsourced today (the outsourced TMF market alone is estimated at ~$1.5-2.5bn annually). Veeva is exceptionally well positioned to serve this market, with all 20 of the top 20 pharma co&#8217;s using Veeva&#8217;s eTMF application. I assume the size of this market is ~$500mm.</p></li><li><p>Regulatory Writer (interaction intake &amp; response + agentic authoring). As discussed in my <a href="/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/p/veev-veeva-systems">original deep dive</a>, Veeva has the opportunity to partially automate correspondence with health authorities on behalf of its biopharma customers. This would include both the drafting of major submissions (Veeva is calling this its &#8220;agentic authoring&#8221; product, separate from Falcon) and also the more regular correspondence with health authorities (which Veeva is including under its Falcon umbrella). Veeva again dominates this category at the application layer, with 19 of the top 20 pharma co&#8217;s being customers of its RIM (Regulatory Information Management) suite. <a href="https://finance.yahoo.com/healthcare/articles/ai-medical-writing-market-trends-155100753.html?guccounter=1&amp;guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&amp;guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAD1a1cja1JoQ-weER1UaUzMA855EoOXs8oVn8uSJzgXNkfq52a14TuTn4GV3bFU4wn1K_-229LRu-ysvOXfGiKPhwJ-yG4yAOCgoycwUcTpJS8nnCPJxYzbS2PLyN2a-rfMaI7nnL3MElOEvRnPelnpfshth4q9T7jkBxbpoqYHE">One group</a> sizes the &#8220;AI in Medical Writing&#8221; market (specific to pharma) at $1.2bn growing to $2.0bn by 2030. McKinsey has estimated that AI-driven savings related to clinical ops will amount to $13-25bn, with an agentic regulatory writer being a major contributor (though not broken out separately). AbbVie (a top 5 pharma) has actually gone ahead and built an <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fC1FHlAlMg&amp;feature=youtu.be">in-house solution</a> already, which seems bullish for the chances that Veeva&#8217;s writer can be immediately useful. I estimate the size of this market is perhaps ~$750mm. </p></li><li><p>Agentic MLR.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-3" href="#footnote-3" target="_self">3</a> Also as discussed in my original Veeva deep dive, AI provides pharma companies with the ability fast track the MLR (Medical, Legal &amp; Regulatory) review process when approving new commercial (aka marketing) content. Veeva management believes a speedy MLR approval process is increasingly important in the AI era, where someone like OpenEvidence (or a pharma company&#8217;s own website) may need to offer targeted collateral instantly say while a doctor is researching a drug. Instead of sending over a 60-page slide deck on a drug and saying &#8220;look in here,&#8221; an MLR agent can help extract and approve the relevant content in a compliant manner. Veeva is targeting a 70%+ reduction in manual labor related to the MLR review process within 5 years. Veeva <a href="https://ir.veeva.com/news/news-details/2026/Veeva-Acquires-Copli-Launches-Veeva-Falcon-MLR-to-Accelerate-Content-Review/default.aspx">acquired Copli</a> in Jun-26 to help bolster this offering. We&#8217;ll say MLR review is a $250mm opportunity.</p></li></ul><p>Combined, these four initial areas represent in the ballpark of ~$3.5bn of incremental TAM for Veeva, according to my loose estimates. Further, if these agentic offerings indeed prove to be &#8220;better, faster &amp; cheaper&#8221; than the human labor equivalent, one would expect them to be rapidly adopted by the pharma industry. How could you defend not adopting AI for safety case processing if say your next closest competitor is saving 50%+ (and potentially multiple tens of millions of dollars) with an agentic solution? I think it&#8217;s fair to say that economy-wide, for AI offerings that do truly resonate with customers (see Cursor, OpenEvidence, Harvey, Sierra), we&#8217;ve seen that demand is basically insatiable. </p><p>Longer-term, there are many additional areas of life science where AI functionality will make a great deal of sense. To name a few:</p><ul><li><p>CRM &#8220;co-pilot.&#8221; By all accounts, Veeva&#8217;s CRM/commercial suite will evolve over time from essentially static record keeping to more of a &#8220;system of action.&#8221; The goal will be for CRM to look more like an intelligent assistant (e.g. taking notes/prepping for calls, recommending actions, even providing feedback/coaching).</p></li><li><p>Clinical trial &#8220;co-pilot.&#8221; AI can help with trial activities like optimizing trial site selection (to maximize enrollment/trial success based on candidate data like health records, biopsies and body scans), creating trial documentation and protocols (which necessitate thousands of pages of documents), drafting communications with trial sites, smartly adapting trials on the fly (e.g. changing dosages in response to early indications from the field), etc.</p></li><li><p>Safety signal detection. Mining adverse event data for safety &#8220;signals&#8221; is a perfect use-case for AI.</p></li><li><p>Brand engagement. Increasingly drug brands need to be able to engage patients/HCPs (healthcare providers) in an &#8220;AI chat&#8221; format (through a brand&#8217;s website, OpenEvidence, or other channels) in a compliant manner. Veeva <a href="https://www.veeva.com/resources/veeva-acquires-ostro/">acquired Ostro</a><a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-4" href="#footnote-4" target="_self">4</a>, a leader in the space, in Mar-26 to bolster this capability.</p></li></ul><p>Encouragingly, Veeva is increasingly pumping out AI capabilities of all different flavors, as we can see on the <a href="https://www.veeva.com/resources/?area=ai">AI section</a> of their website.</p><p>In all, <a href="https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/life-sciences/our-insights/generative-ai-in-the-pharmaceutical-industry-moving-from-hype-to-reality#/">McKinsey</a> estimates the savings that can be generated across life sciences from AI (in just the areas that Veeva touches &#8212; i.e. post &#8220;research and early discovery&#8221;) could amount to $38-67bn. If we assume Veeva can capture 20% of that, that would expand Veeva&#8217;s TAM by ~$8-13bn (vs. an estimated TAM of ~$20bn pre AI and total revenue of ~$3bn today). </p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OKAQ!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8d0cf513-bbab-429b-97c6-bc9e35c414c8_611x488.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OKAQ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8d0cf513-bbab-429b-97c6-bc9e35c414c8_611x488.png 424w, 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8d0cf513-bbab-429b-97c6-bc9e35c414c8_611x488.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OKAQ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8d0cf513-bbab-429b-97c6-bc9e35c414c8_611x488.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" 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y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Thrive, Sequoia, a16z and Sam Altman have all backed an &#8220;AI-native pharma company&#8221; called Formation Bio, who&#8217;s goal is to drastically speed up the drug development process. Formation doesn&#8217;t actually do any drug discovery work, but rather acquires drug candidates and helps speed them through the clinical trial process. Formation&#8217;s contention is that they can ultimately reduce the cost of clinical trials by ~50% while also speeding trials up by ~50%. Much of this, it seems, Formation believes can be achieved by cutting out CROs (contract research organizations, or outsourced managers of clinical trials, regulatory compliance, etc.) through, in part, AI-driven processes. Here is CEO Ben Liu from a Nov-25 a16z interview:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;One of the big challenges is most biotech and pharma companies today hire a CRO. The CROs are a bill-per-hour, cost-plus business&#8230;So the business model means the more billable hours, the more revenue they earn, right?&#8230;So there is, not for any other reason than just the financial incentives of cost-plus business models, usually means there&#8217;s cost inflation over time. So let&#8217;s say you&#8217;re running a phase two trial using 50 different trial sites. All those trial sites operate a little bit differently. Some collect data using one system, you know, at the site level, then they put it into an electronic data capture system. These things don&#8217;t talk with each other. But for a CRO, that&#8217;s positive because it&#8217;s a &#8216;bill-per-hour event&#8217; to address that variability. <strong>So, a big way we&#8217;re able to run trials a lot faster and more cost effectively is we built our own tech-enabled CRO where we built all the software technology to disintermediate a lot of those cost-plus, bill-per-hour activities</strong>&#8230;</em></p><p><em><strong>You could probably do trials for half the cost, half the time. Because, you know, the cost-plus of a CRO is like a 40% margin&#8230;One heuristic is for every $3, $1 goes to the site, like the site investigator, and $2 goes to the CRO, right?</strong> So there&#8217;s a lot of opportunities on the, like, human capital intensive type of activities. If you begin to also think about study design, then you can get really interesting order-of-magnitude kind of differences, but that requires some regulatory [intervention/re-design].&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>Much of Veeva&#8217;s agentic offerings will be targeting the same categories of efficiencies (that often fall to a CRO), but instead making them widely available across the pharma industry. Thus, I view Formation&#8217;s thesis as bullish re Veeva&#8217;s AI efforts.</p><p>As I&#8217;ve mentioned before, Veeva CEO Peter Gassner has also stated that he believes AI (from Veeva alone) could lead to a ~15% increase in efficiency across all of life sciences within ~5 years.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-5" href="#footnote-5" target="_self">5</a> Across a $2 trillion industry, that would amount to ~$300bn in savings. This seems like a prediction he might want to have back at some point, but even if this misses by a significant margin it still indicates a large opportunity set for Veeva.</p><p><em>AI&#8217;s &#8220;Pull-Through&#8221; Potential</em></p><p>An important side note to the AI discussion is that if Veeva&#8217;s agentic offerings are indeed compelling, this should accelerate the uptake of its &#8220;legacy&#8221; software offerings through which this AI is delivered. </p><p>For example, from the chart above, only 6 top-20 pharma co&#8217;s have adopted Veeva Safety. If Veeva&#8217;s agentic safety offering is ultimately industry-leading, it would not be surprising to see this number ratchet up. Veeva management would tell you they already have the best application in the space, with the top 2 competitors supposedly offering &#8220;legacy&#8221; on-premise solutions that have grown long in the tooth (take with a grain of salt).<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-6" href="#footnote-6" target="_self">6</a><a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-7" href="#footnote-7" target="_self">7</a></p><p>Similarly, while Veeva owns 19 of the top-20s in its RIM suite, a great AI regulatory writer could help spur adoption of other suites that an AI writer might ideally want to access. For example, in order to draft a clinical trial submission, an AI writer will need clean access to the clinical trial data. If this data is not housed in Veeva&#8217;s CDB application, where Veeva counts ~8 top-20s as customers, perhaps the writer won&#8217;t work as well. The same could probably be said for the eTMF and CTMS. Another area that would make a lot of sense for an AI writer to access would be the safety suite. Pharma co&#8217;s need to submit regular reporting on safety activity, as well as ad hoc reporting when adverse events build/cluster.</p><p>Perhaps the most interesting &#8220;pull through&#8221; opportunity from AI, however, is in Veeva&#8217;s data products (more specifically its Compass suite). Veeva&#8217;s Compass suite is a &#8220;sleeping giant,&#8221; representing the largest single product opportunity for Veeva with an estimated TAM of ~$4bn+. The opportunity in Compass could be unlocked, in part, through a more &#8220;agentic&#8221; CRM/commercial paradigm. </p><p>An agentic co-pilot in CRM will need access to real-time, market-wide patient- and prescriber-level data to function well. In order to recommend actions (which HCPs to prioritize? what&#8217;s changed since my last visit? what message should I use?), for example, the CRM will need detailed, up-to-date commercial/market data (e.g. patient diagnoses/procedures, HCP prescribing behaviors, market share trends). </p><p>In fact, Veeva already powered the first iteration of its &#8220;CRM bot,&#8221; which it released in Dec-25, with data from Compass. From Veeva&#8217;s Q1&#8217;FY24 prepared remarks:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;CRM Bot is an AI application for Vault CRM. You can think of it as ChatGPT for field teams. <strong>We will start by powering it with Veeva data, specifically Compass.</strong> We&#8217;ll learn and evolve from there, with a focus on partnering with customers to get AI right for the industry.&#8221; </em></p></blockquote><p>It turns out Veeva is one of only two players who can provide this type of data (alongside market leader IQVIA). For a decade+, IQVIA was the only game in town. However, after much effort and 7+ years of development, Veeva recently launched a set of products which can viably compete against IQVIA. Veeva management, with a straight face, will also tell you its Compass products are better than IQVIA&#8217;s along certain lines, providing: (1) richer patient-level data (which is better for today&#8217;s more modern, complex and targeted medicines) and (2) faster data (refreshed daily, which will be increasingly important in an agentic commercial world). Veeva&#8217;s data products will also, of course, plug very neatly into Veeva&#8217;s commercial application suite, which provides a nice distribution advantage (Veeva still dominates in CRM/commercial). </p><p>Here is management from a Jun-25 <em>Baird</em> conference on Compass&#8217; progress:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;<strong>In many areas, our product is already the very best in the marketplace.</strong> And I say it that way because there&#8217;s some &#8212; it varies by therapeutic area. But there&#8217;s an incumbent in place and there&#8217;s a lot of effort to switch out the incumbent <strong>even though you have a better data product, and you can prove that you have a better data product.</strong> So we have to prove this brand by brand. It&#8217;s the buying cycle in life sciences that takes time. You buy one brand, you establish success and you move on to the next one. And that&#8217;s the cycle that we&#8217;re going through right now. And we&#8217;ve seen some enterprise customers start small with one and then expand to multiple brands and then expand to an ELA. <strong>That&#8217;s the pattern we&#8217;re looking for, and I think that&#8217;s what will play out over the next several years</strong>.&#8221; </em></p></blockquote><p>Below is commentary from an Apr-26 <em>AlphaSense</em> transcript with Veeva&#8217;s Former Head of Commercial &amp; Medical Sales &amp; Strategy. He states that while getting customers to move off of IQVIA is extremely difficult, that Veeva actually has the better data product at this point.</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;<strong>I think that their Compass product is very well-positioned in the sense where the data business is going to become more and more valuable because these LLMs need data.</strong> If they don&#8217;t have the proprietary data to train the model appropriately, then they&#8217;re pretty much useless models at that point. Veeva does have a data moat should they continue to grow within their Compass business, which I don&#8217;t think is necessarily grown to the extent where they anticipated at this point, which is not due to inferior products by any means.</em></p><p><em>It&#8217;s just really hard to rip out your primary data source. If someone&#8217;s using IQVIA, to move fully onto Veeva Compass for minimal uplift, it&#8217;s hard to justify that change. It&#8217;s a lot of work. People don&#8217;t want to do it. I think they need to get over that hump, and they will, as they make their data set better. That could be also the next flame for them to ignite, from a revenue perspective, quite honestly&#8230;</em></p><p><em>In the data product itself, you asked about the Compass product too, I think what they did initially and why it hasn&#8217;t captured as much market share as they thought is they launched the product too early. It wasn&#8217;t ready. The product was not robust enough to compete with the IQVIAs of the world when it came out. <strong>Now, I think it&#8217;s actually better, and it&#8217;s going to continue to get even better.</strong> It&#8217;s more so of convincing the customers to move away entirely from IQVIA and move on to Veeva, which I think some will do&#8230;</em></p><p><em>The data business, I think, is worth more than the software business. It&#8217;s going to be even more lucrative as well, like I said, with LLMs needing this data to actually operate.</em>&#8221;</p></blockquote><p>This sentiment was echoed on a May-26 <em>Third Bridge</em> transcript with a former Veeva Senior Strategy Exec:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;Where I think Peter is going strategically right now, and I think it creates a much bigger moat&#8230;In 2019, they acquired Crossix. That&#8217;s data on 300 million lives. You can look it up, maybe you already have, so you got real-world data&#8230;</em></p><p><em>Peter was really frustrated in the beginning, and the acquisition was to start to build this moat to say, &#8216;We have the data that we&#8217;re generating on the commercial side. We&#8217;re now acquiring really insightful, psychographic, demographic purchasing behavior on 300 million lives.&#8217; <strong>Now, here&#8217;s the key. The Compass product is now integrating all of that data. Other</strong> <strong>companies can&#8217;t do it</strong>. Komodo has the data on the lives, but they don&#8217;t have all the clinical data that Veeva is generating.</em></p><p><em>Where the moat becomes strategically, and I took it to another level just beyond the Vault, is that <strong>I believe the strategy now is to become, with a strong moat, the definitive data source for the life sciences industry for the years to come</strong> by buying data from IQVIA, which they do. It&#8217;s an interesting frenemy situation, generating your own clinical data more and more and more over time. Your Crossix data keeps expanding. Then they made a significant shift with the Compass product, where Veeva, as you know, has always been upper right-hand quadrant, premium price, premium product, 24/7, we&#8217;ll give you whatever you need, just ask for it&#8230;</em></p><p><em>When you do your data comparison at your company, if you work at Pfizer, let&#8217;s say, and you&#8217;re like, <strong>&#8216;Man, the Veeva data is just far superior,&#8217; the ClinOps teams, the sales ops teams, market research, everybody is like, &#8216;This is the data.&#8217; I don&#8217;t know how anybody can usurp that.</strong></em></p></blockquote><p>Veeva was already seeing healthy uptake of Compass prior to any type of pull from AI. As we can see below, over the past ~2.5 years, the Compass Patient product has quickly scaled from around zero brands to ~140 brands (including brands with 2 top 20 pharmas).</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!FfB5!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff9aec817-7fc4-4798-ac6b-8b293df3f54b_3709x2089.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!FfB5!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff9aec817-7fc4-4798-ac6b-8b293df3f54b_3709x2089.png 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y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Veeva also signed ELAs with 2 top 50 pharma groups over this period (one in the ~Q2&#8217;FY25 quarter and one in the ~Q2&#8217;FY26 quarter). If we assume there are ~4k brands that are potential Compass customers (Veeva has stated that they have data on 4k brands), that would suggest Veeva has ~3-4% market share currently (on a logo basis).</p><p>Compass&#8217; progress is something to monitor closely. The data suite addresses a very large TAM and is only growing in importance. If Veeva starts seeing accelerating traction in Compass, that would be a very significant development. </p><p>To recap, my hope is that sometime in 2027-2028 we begin to see a reacceleration of sorts as a result of (1) growing AI consumption revenue (from Falcon), (2) the continued and hopefully somewhat accelerating adoption of Veeva&#8217;s &#8220;legacy&#8221; applications, in part spurred by the promise of Veeva&#8217;s AI products and (3) the continued and hopefully somewhat accelerating adoption of Veeva&#8217;s Compass suite, in part spurred by the industry-wide shift to an agentic commercial suite.</p><p><em>Valuation Refresh</em></p><p>In Nov-24 at their 2024 investor day, Veeva set a target of $6bn in revenue by FY31 (aka CY30), a target they continue to reaffirm. </p><p>For illustrative purposes, let&#8217;s say AI hits, and that this somewhat accelerates Veeva&#8217;s legacy software business and data offerings. As a result, we&#8217;ll say Veeva hits $7bn in revenue by FY31 instead of $6bn.</p><p>If we also assume Veeva generates a 50% non-GAAP EBIT margin (vs. 45% today), and trades for ~15x LTM non-GAAP EBIT (vs. ~22x today)<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-8" href="#footnote-8" target="_self">8</a>, this gets us to a ~1.7x MOI over 5 years, or an IRR of ~11% (based on a $230 share price).</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!1czT!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F07c55bb3-2a9e-4085-8dfc-e86801c467c1_1245x1577.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!1czT!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F07c55bb3-2a9e-4085-8dfc-e86801c467c1_1245x1577.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!1czT!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F07c55bb3-2a9e-4085-8dfc-e86801c467c1_1245x1577.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!1czT!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F07c55bb3-2a9e-4085-8dfc-e86801c467c1_1245x1577.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!1czT!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F07c55bb3-2a9e-4085-8dfc-e86801c467c1_1245x1577.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!1czT!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F07c55bb3-2a9e-4085-8dfc-e86801c467c1_1245x1577.png" width="501" height="634.6" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/07c55bb3-2a9e-4085-8dfc-e86801c467c1_1245x1577.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1577,&quot;width&quot;:1245,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:501,&quot;bytes&quot;:95752,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/199526026?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F07c55bb3-2a9e-4085-8dfc-e86801c467c1_1245x1577.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!1czT!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F07c55bb3-2a9e-4085-8dfc-e86801c467c1_1245x1577.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!1czT!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F07c55bb3-2a9e-4085-8dfc-e86801c467c1_1245x1577.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!1czT!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F07c55bb3-2a9e-4085-8dfc-e86801c467c1_1245x1577.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!1czT!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F07c55bb3-2a9e-4085-8dfc-e86801c467c1_1245x1577.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Here are sensitivity tables showing MOIs and IRRs based on a range of entry share prices and exit multiples.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!HTQN!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F964eccf6-b717-4c42-b08d-b8bf7c808386_1363x1397.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!HTQN!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F964eccf6-b717-4c42-b08d-b8bf7c808386_1363x1397.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!HTQN!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F964eccf6-b717-4c42-b08d-b8bf7c808386_1363x1397.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!HTQN!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F964eccf6-b717-4c42-b08d-b8bf7c808386_1363x1397.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!HTQN!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F964eccf6-b717-4c42-b08d-b8bf7c808386_1363x1397.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!HTQN!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F964eccf6-b717-4c42-b08d-b8bf7c808386_1363x1397.png" width="552" height="565.7696258253852" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/964eccf6-b717-4c42-b08d-b8bf7c808386_1363x1397.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1397,&quot;width&quot;:1363,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:552,&quot;bytes&quot;:164003,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/199526026?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F964eccf6-b717-4c42-b08d-b8bf7c808386_1363x1397.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!HTQN!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F964eccf6-b717-4c42-b08d-b8bf7c808386_1363x1397.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!HTQN!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F964eccf6-b717-4c42-b08d-b8bf7c808386_1363x1397.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!HTQN!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F964eccf6-b717-4c42-b08d-b8bf7c808386_1363x1397.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!HTQN!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F964eccf6-b717-4c42-b08d-b8bf7c808386_1363x1397.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Based on the above, Veeva&#8217;s share price getting as low as ~$150 as part of the &#8220;Saaspocalypse&#8221; seems like a gift in retrospect. As things stand, I think I would start adding again in the ~$180 range (but this of course could go up/down depending on Veeva&#8217;s evolving trajectory or how one feels about different parts of the story).</p><p><em>Updates to Selected Risks</em></p><ul><li><p>DIY Risk. Veeva&#8217;s revenue is fairly concentrated. According to <a href="https://x.com/JaredSleeper/status/2041531615977918832">Jared Sleeper</a>, Veeva&#8217;s top 10 customers represent ~28% of revenue (and generate almost ~$1bn in ARR). Thus, with some customers paying Veeva $100mm+, there is certainly incentive to rip Veeva out and replace with a homegrown solution. If we do end up in a world where even complex software like Veeva&#8217;s can be easily replicated, this puts Veeva at risk. Mitigants include: (1) the industry is highly regulated and Veeva has one of the most risk-averse sets of buyers in all of software (making DIY a lot less likely) and (2) if Veeva can transition into an &#8220;applied AI&#8221; winner, it will add an AI/data layer of defensibility that couldn&#8217;t be &#8220;vibe coded&#8221; and should be quite formidable. I feel comfortable with this risk for now.</p></li><li><p>Frontier Lab Competition. Anthropic, in particular, is attempting to <a href="https://www.anthropic.com/news/healthcare-life-sciences">expand its reach</a> in life sciences to clinical and post-clinical applications. Anthropic has added &#8220;connectors&#8221; to a host of partners including Veeva, Medidata and many others. It&#8217;s also added certain life science-specific &#8220;skills&#8221; like the ones listed below:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!x4sS!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6dd0c8f6-9b87-48fe-ad0d-4555a711e292_556x305.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!x4sS!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6dd0c8f6-9b87-48fe-ad0d-4555a711e292_556x305.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!x4sS!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6dd0c8f6-9b87-48fe-ad0d-4555a711e292_556x305.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!x4sS!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6dd0c8f6-9b87-48fe-ad0d-4555a711e292_556x305.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!x4sS!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, 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y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Anthropic <a href="https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/bristol-myers-taps-anthropic-claude-enterprise-wide-ai-adoption-speed-drug-rd-global?_gl=1*1l5rlbn*_gcl_au*MTMyOTg2ODI1Ny4xNzg2NDg3Njc2*_ga*MTk2NDE3OTg5Ni4xNzg2NDg3Njcy*_ga_KG49J84SR4*czE3ODY0ODc2NzIkbzEkZzEkdDE3ODY0ODc3MTAkajIyJGwwJGgw">signed</a> Bristol Myers Squibb (~8-10th largest pharma) to an enterprise-wide agreement in May-26 where Anthropic will assist with, amongst other things, drug commercialization, drafting clinical trial reports and driving better quality/compliance in manufacturing. Anthropic also appointed Novartis (~6-8th largest pharma) CEO Vas Narasinhan to its board in Apr-26. Merck (~4th largest pharma), for its part, signed an <a href="https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/merck-and-google-cloud-partner-to-accelerate-agentic-ai-enterprise-transformation-302749237.html">enterprise agreement</a> with Google in Apr-26 reportedly worth up to $1bn (across multiple years) which calls for the deployment of an enterprise-wide agentic platform.<br><br>Veeva (and the rest of SaaS) has received good news on this front of late, however. The first piece of good news has been that open-source models have kept pace (and even gained ground in certain capabilities) with the closed models. The second is that we&#8217;ve seen &#8220;applied AI&#8221; companies like Harvey and Cursor use these open-source models to train smaller models with their own data that actually outperform closed models in domain-specific areas (and do so at a far lower cost). Here is Gavin Baker from an Aug-26 <em>Invest Like the Best</em> podcast: <br><br><em>&#8220;<strong>I do think open-source getting closer to the frontier and companies like Fireworks making it really easy to customize a model such that you can get, in some cases, better than frontier for performance for meaningfully lower cost. That is a godsend for the software industry and it&#8217;s also a godsend for all these AI natives</strong>&#8230;A lot of people would dismiss them as ChatGPT wrappers. Well, now with open source, you&#8217;ve actually generated some data that&#8217;s unique to your use case, whatever vertical you&#8217;re going after&#8230;And that&#8217;s why you saw, you know, Harvey, before it was acquired Cursor, lean so heavily into this. Harvey, Legora &#8212; all of them. Because if you can go from just using one, two, or three frontier models for whatever it is, to 30 to 60% of your token consumption. And then use your own RL model. All of a sudden, you&#8217;re not a wrapper. You&#8217;re way more defensible.&#8221;</em><br><br>For all the Falcon use-cases highlighted above, I assume Veeva follows the path articulated by Baker if they haven&#8217;t already. This gives Veeva a real shot to actually outperform the frontier labs in these targeted areas with proprietary models (and do so at a far lower cost). </p></li></ul><p><em>Other Notes</em></p><ul><li><p>LIMS.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-9" href="#footnote-9" target="_self">9</a> Veeva added its first top-20 LIMS customer. This was a nice milestone, as the LIMS opportunity is one of Veeva&#8217;s largest (~$1bn in size by my estimate)</p></li><li><p>EDC.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-10" href="#footnote-10" target="_self">10</a> After showing very strong momentum in EDC, Veeva hasn&#8217;t added a single net new customers for ~2.5 years. While management is fairly adamant that growth will return (and that the last couple years have simply been an &#8220;air pocket&#8221;), this is obviously not ideal and something to watch. </p></li><li><p>Clinical trial tailwind. More clinical trials are good for Veeva. While Veeva&#8217;s pricing is pretty convoluted and varies by product area, in general on the R&amp;D side, the more clinical trials, the more revenue Veeva generates, all things equal. Many expect the pace of trials to increase in coming years boosted by AI-driven drug discovery (after flattish trial activity the past few years). </p></li><li><p>Complex therapeutics. The share of complex, large molecule drugs in drug pipelines is growing rapidly (now accounting for ~50% of late-stage assets and ~65% of projected pipeline value). As discussed above, Veeva&#8217;s Compass suite is especially well suited for this class of drugs.</p></li><li><p>CRM/commercial referendum. In Dec-22, Veeva announced its widely discussed move to take its CRM off of the Salesforce platform and onto its own internally developed &#8220;Vault&#8221; platform. This meant that Veeva would have to effectively &#8220;re-win&#8221; all of its CRM customers. Salesforce responded with a life science-specific CRM of its own, and surprised Veeva (and the industry at large) by taking a handful of top 20 customers away from Veeva (6 thus far). In hindsight, Salesforce benefited from (1) the fact that many Veeva CRM customers used Salesforce products for CRM-adjacent applications like marketing and service (Veeva wasn&#8217;t allowed to develop these applications under its prior agreement with Salesforce) which enhanced Salesforce ecosystem stickiness, (2) going all-in on an AI vision at a time when Veeva was downplaying AI&#8217;s impact, (3) that Veeva was entrenched in a legal battle with IQVIA, the top data provider in the space and critical partner for enabling an agentic commercial suite (IQVIA and Veeva ended their legal battle and entered into a commercial partnership in Aug-25), and (4) that Veeva chose to force its customers to pay for the service cost of transitioning CRMs even though its customers weren&#8217;t ultimately migrating off of Veeva (which annoyed all of Veeva&#8217;s customers to varying degrees). As of Q1&#8217;FY27, 10 top-20s had selected Veeva and 6 had selected Salesforce with 4 remaining undecided. Veeva stated on the Q1&#8217;FY27 call that they expected to win &#8220;the majority&#8221; of the remaining four. I view this as an interesting referendum on the state of Veeva&#8217;s commercial suite. Veeva has now had a chance to fully articulate its AI vision (as well as firm up a partnership with IQVIA), after a slow start re AI in which they &#8220;fell behind&#8221; Salesforce. If Veeva can win 3 or 4 of the remaining top-20s, that would seem to indicate that the market believes in Veeva&#8217;s commercial vision. If Salesforce instead surprises on wins, that might tell a different story. Veeva received good news on 8/11 when Eli Lilly (the #1 overall pharma and one of the remaining &#8220;undecideds&#8221;) <a href="https://ir.veeva.com/news/news-details/2026/Veeva-Vault-CRM-Selected-by-Eli-Lilly-and-Company/default.aspx">announced</a> that it had committed to Veeva.</p></li></ul><div class="subscription-widget-wrap-editor" data-attrs="{&quot;url&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/subscribe?&quot;,&quot;text&quot;:&quot;Subscribe&quot;,&quot;language&quot;:&quot;en&quot;}" data-component-name="SubscribeWidgetToDOM"><div class="subscription-widget show-subscribe"><div class="preamble"><p class="cta-caption">Thanks for reading Lewistown Capital! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work.</p></div><form class="subscription-widget-subscribe"><input type="email" class="email-input" name="email" placeholder="Type your email&#8230;" tabindex="-1"><input type="submit" class="button primary" value="Subscribe"><div class="fake-input-wrapper"><div class="fake-input"></div><div class="fake-button"></div></div></form></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-1" href="#footnote-anchor-1" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">1</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;Are we able to, for instance, find the right sites, get them started up and get them enrolling faster, which then closes our studies quicker, which then recoups our investment in our products as we get those to the market faster or just time savings from people? <strong>We&#8217;re taking areas, say, document management being one, where you have offshore teams that are handling document management pieces like that. Those are some of those ripe areas where AI really does a good job and you can start to put that in.</strong> You reduce some times for people in there. Then you can start to reduce budgets for people in those areas. I do think realistically, some of those low value areas where you can implement AI, we&#8217;re going to start to see some savings in probably the next 12 months. I would say within 18, we should start to see, definitely, more savings from there.&#8221; <em>&#8212; Executive Director &amp; Head, GCDO (Global Clinical Development Operations) Business &amp; Technology Capabilities at Jazz Pharmaceuticals (Third Bridge, May-26)</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-2" href="#footnote-anchor-2" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">2</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>I don&#8217;t know the exact number, I should, off the top of my head. But let&#8217;s just say there&#8217;s 100 million documents collected from clinical research sites around the world every year having to do with clinical trials, they have to be checked for quality and they have to be sorted into the right places. That&#8217;s work that agents can do, it&#8217;s difficult, specific work, but we can make agents that are very specific on that.</p><p>Agents that take in a bunch of free text via e-mail or other channels and have to sort it out to see, is this a product complaint? If so, how to handle that? And categorize that? Or no, this is an adverse event. This is the issue with a medicine making somebody potentially ill, okay? Well, what is that illness? Is that a headache or a throbbing headache? How serious is that? Is that involved in the clinical trial? What drug is that involved with? We will make agents to do that and do those very standard things. </p><p><strong>And this is an area where I&#8217;m enthused because Veeva can lead. This is where -- just like for cloud applications, you got the very specific industry-specific cloud applications could add tremendous value if you went to the last mile and solve the thing. In industry-specific agents, agentic labor, we may be able to go the last mile and make specific agents that just do the thing for life sciences because we&#8217;ll go to that last mile and make it work,</strong> we may make agents that are better safety case processors and more reliable than humans.</p><p><strong>That&#8217;s a heck of a lot of work, but we have a structural advantage to do that because we&#8217;re deep in life sciences, we have a consulting in life sciences, and we have the applications that those agents can use</strong>, it&#8217;s the same reason why Claude is getting very good at Claude Code because they have the agent, the coding agent and they have the model, and they have 2 layers. We don&#8217;t have a model we use, but we have applications and the agents. So that is a structural advantage. And I do want to emphasize again, the consulting because a lot of this is about change management. <em>&#8212; Q1&#8217;FY27</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-3" href="#footnote-anchor-3" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">3</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;The ROI is just very clear. It&#8217;s faster content, lower cost to create that content, and that&#8217;s what it&#8217;s all about&#8230;Faster content just means better launches. That means that drives the top line before the patent on that product expires. So I get asked by that -- by customers all the time. They know in the age of really omni-channel experience for their customers, which are patients and health care providers, omni-channel experience that includes AI doctors and large language models, the speed that you can get your content out there in a compliant way is just going to be critical. So the old way of approving content is just not going to suffice anymore. You need to approve it. You can&#8217;t do this -- it&#8217;s not legal to just throw content out there that&#8217;s not compliant. They need to do it. <strong>But the old way of doing it is just not going to suffice, so there&#8217;s intense interest in that area</strong>.&#8221; <em>&#8212; Q4&#8217;FY26</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-4" href="#footnote-anchor-4" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">4</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;So Ostro is super exciting. If you -- the buyer of Ostro is the biopharma company, the user of Ostro is the health care professional or the patient. So it&#8217;s a brand engagement platform for biopharma companies to help HCPs and patients ask questions and get answers instantaneously and do that in a compliant way. <strong>That&#8217;s very, very hard to do. It&#8217;s hard to do that at scale. It&#8217;s hard to do it in a compliant way, and that&#8217;s exactly what Ostro does.</strong></p><p>So we are marketing to -- we&#8217;re selling to the biopharmas and they&#8217;re driving the engagement and the traffic to the patients and the health care professionals that use that. Now it&#8217;s -- why did we do this? And I talked a little bit earlier about how digital is increasing and we&#8217;re seeing new channels, and you mentioned OpenEvidence. And OpenEvidence is important from a number of different perspectives, one which I referenced earlier from a measurement standpoint, as companies spend more with OpenEvidence, it&#8217;s more important that you measure those channels. But also as they turn to channels like OpenEvidence for information, that&#8217;s an entry point into going to a pharma company&#8217;s digital site and using Ostro on that site to get information really quickly. So all these pieces they all natively work together. This is a core part of our strategy. It unlocks better engagement with HCPs and patients. </p><p>It also unlocks something that we talk a lot about at our -- we introduced at our commercial summit called Commercial Evidence. You may have seen Peter refer to that in the prepared remarks, but this is groundbreaking. <strong>This is about understanding what HCPs and patients are thinking about, what are they asking about and getting it in an unfiltered way. So that you can gain this commercial evidence, which can help you identify barriers to getting medicines to patients.</strong> So it&#8217;s a really exciting area.</p><p>It&#8217;s going to play a bigger and bigger role in Commercial Cloud over time, and we see it as a really significant acquisition and a potential long-term growth opportunity for us. It generated a lot of excitement for us as it relates to that.&#8221; <em>&#8212; Q1&#8217;FY27</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-5" href="#footnote-anchor-5" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">5</a><div class="footnote-content"><p><span>&#8220;I&#8217;m very bullish about what Veeva can bring with AI for the life sciences industry. </span><strong>I think if you look over the next 3, 4, 5 years out to 2030, I think Veeva can help increase life sciences efficiency by 15% or so with Veeva AI.</strong><span> That&#8217;s a huge number when you look at that. So I really think it will be a step change.&#8221; </span><em>&#8212; Q1&#8217;FY26 </em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-6" href="#footnote-anchor-6" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">6</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;Safety momentum, we internally call it the safety surge. We&#8217;ve been winning some deals, and the projects are going well. We had another top 20 win this quarter, and we had our first top 20 go live with Signal and Workbench.</p><p>Now in terms of AI, it&#8217;s pretty clear there in -- there&#8217;s a lot of human processing of case intake and case narrative generation that&#8217;s done by people. That&#8217;s not necessarily that high risk, but it has to be done well. <strong>And it&#8217;s expensive to hire those people, and it&#8217;s not easy. So in safety, it&#8217;s just very clear. It&#8217;s about replacing that type of labor with automation, with AI software.</strong></p><p>Now what is risky for the customers or what they would claim is really important is when they switch from their current core safety system to Veeva, that project has to go really well, right? That&#8217;s not easy to do. So that&#8217;s more where the risk aversion is. <strong>But I think they&#8217;re starting to realize if you want to have a potential future where you have a great core safety system that has safety AI on top of it and is connected to your other systems in your company, Veeva is the only place you&#8217;re going to do that unless you&#8217;re going to build it yourself.</strong> I think most people are starting also to realize now that it&#8217;s not that easy to build and maintain these things themselves.</p><p>So that&#8217;s kind of what&#8217;s leaning into our favor on the AI. Now of course, we have to deliver it. But what does make that market slow is people are very reluctant to change their core safety database because they have to report to health authorities all around the world, and if they can&#8217;t do that, they have to pull their products off the market. So it&#8217;s serious. I think that sometimes people don&#8217;t understand. We&#8217;re not making systems that help people write better e-mails or better spell checker. It&#8217;s a big deal for a pharmaceutical company if your products get pulled off the market. So that&#8217;s -- these things are very critical.&#8221; <em>&#8212; Q4&#8217;FY26</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-7" href="#footnote-anchor-7" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">7</a><div class="footnote-content"><p><strong>&#8220;I think Safety, people are really excited about our architecture and how we&#8217;re doing things, not only the core Safety processing, but the AI that sits on top of that and the analytics that go along with the analytical application.</strong> So people think that&#8217;s good. People are very hesitant to change their Safety systems. It&#8217;s such a core system, and it&#8217;s been so complex. So we&#8217;re still in the early customer phase of that.</p><p>I&#8217;m hopeful that we&#8217;ll get into the middle majority phase here in a couple of years, and then we&#8217;ll have the late adopter phase. <strong>I&#8217;m just very optimistic on it, but gosh, people don&#8217;t change these things very, very fast.</strong> They just don&#8217;t because there&#8217;s -- it&#8217;s such a critical area and there&#8217;s not a lot of push from above the Safety teams because it&#8217;s such a critical area and they&#8217;ve got it. So we just have to wait for the right time and then every project has to be successful, and that&#8217;s really what we&#8217;re focused on&#8230;</p><p>We&#8217;ve spent, I guess, it&#8217;s getting close to, what, 8 years or so building this thing now. So that&#8217;s a real competitive moat.&#8221; <em>&#8212; Q3&#8217;FY26</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-8" href="#footnote-anchor-8" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">8</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>By way of comparison, one of Veeva&#8217;s toughest competitors in the Quality space &#8212; Kneat &#8212; was recently acquired by Thoma Bravo in Jun-26 for ~9x LTM revenue, ~12x LTM GP, and 60x+ LTM non-GAAP EBIT (Kneat was growing 30%+, however).</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-9" href="#footnote-anchor-9" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">9</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;Quality is one of these areas where we can reach a lot of customers, a lot of different customers, CDMOs, other regulated -- highly regulated services, industries that are close to life sciences. Our success has been -- we have 3 main core products, all on a common platform. We have the Quality documentation, which is used mainly in manufacturing for managing your standard operating procedures and your changes around that, your Quality management system for deviations and CAPAs, et cetera, and your GxP training, your validated training environment. <strong>So we&#8217;re the only vendor that has all those 3 all on a common platform.</strong> So that&#8217;s what&#8217;s really driving a lot of the growth. In addition, we have some new products there, batch release and computer systems validation. And we&#8217;re very excited about LIMS.</p><p>We announced that early customer in LIMS, Laboratory Information Management. That&#8217;s used to test the medicine as it&#8217;s being manufactured. And that&#8217;s a growth area because there&#8217;s new manufacturing plants being built because of -- for a variety of reasons, let alone political reasons, et cetera. <strong>So new manufacturing plants being built and the medicine and the manufacturing of these medicines is becoming more expensive and more complicated. And there, there&#8217;s 2 main solutions used out in that area, and they&#8217;re both on-premise hosted solutions that are not modern</strong> &#8212; critically important, but not modern.</p><p>So we have a real greenfield opportunity there. If you look at life sciences, they will -- generally, they will research and find a molecule. They will run clinical trials. They will commercialize the product. But along the way, before they put that medicine even in the first human, they have to manufacture it first in a small volume and then in the large volume. And so that manufacturing area is critically important, and you&#8217;re manufacturing something that&#8217;s going to be either ingested by a human or put right into the bloodstream. So it&#8217;s super important how you do that. So it&#8217;s a great, growing area for us &#8212; Quality in the manufacturing space.&#8221; <em>&#8212; Q3&#8217;FY26</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-10" href="#footnote-anchor-10" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">10</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;I would say, yes, hit a bit of an air pocket there in the EDC, and that&#8217;s just the random timings of life, I guess. So we certainly hope to make progress there in the coming years. And I think we have a structural advantage because the customers really -- they really want the combined clinical operations and clinical data management to work together, and we announced a real groundbreaking thing on our eSource initiative. So we have some late adopters there, and they also have other priorities that they have to get after, right? So it&#8217;s a question of priorities. </p><p>I think we&#8217;ll -- arguably, we&#8217;re the leader now. It&#8217;s us and Medidata. Although they do better in the study-by-study area. But I think we&#8217;re on a path to leadership. I guess that&#8217;s one high-level thing to know. Our competitive environment has never been stronger, so I can -- I feel like I can see where we&#8217;re going. As long as we don&#8217;t get arrogant, as long as we keep executing, we will complete that vision. But do you complete it -- do you complete that in 5 years, in 7 years? When does the EDC breakthrough come? Does it come in 2 years or 1 year or 4 years? Those things are hard to predict, David, but I -- we&#8217;re well set up to get there because we have a structural advantage.&#8221; <em>&#8212; Q4&#8217;FY26</em></p></div></div>]]></content:encoded></item><item><title><![CDATA[[$UBER] Uber Technologies]]></title><description><![CDATA[Ride or Die: The Self-Driving S-Curve]]></description><link>https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/p/uber-uber-technologies</link><guid isPermaLink="false">https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/p/uber-uber-technologies</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[Ryan Seawell]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Wed, 22 Jul 2026 11:30:34 GMT</pubDate><enclosure url="https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!vU8L!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F5f7186a4-0e8a-404f-9133-ad4ba36ed565_4400x2351.png" length="0" type="image/jpeg"/><content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Disclaimer: This is not investment advice</em></p><div><hr></div><p>Autonomous vehicles (AVs) are coming to Uber soon.*</p><p>We&#8217;re talking about non-Waymo, US-based, unsupervised (no safety drivers) AVs with large ODDs (operational design domains, or the areas in which the AVs are permitted/safe to operate). </p><p>What is soon? In theory, H2&#8217;26. In H2&#8217;26, we&#8217;ll have Nuro-powered Lucid AVs (the Lucid Gravity SUV) operating without safety drivers<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-1" href="#footnote-1" target="_self">1</a> throughout the SF Bay Area (ex-highways).<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-2" href="#footnote-2" target="_self">2</a><a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-3" href="#footnote-3" target="_self">3</a></p><p>Full-stack NVIDIA-powered AVs are slated to arrive in the Bay Area not long behind Nuro/Lucid, in H1&#8217;27 (car OEM TBD). In fact, Uber is targeting the launch of NVIDIA-powered robotaxis (using NVIDIA&#8217;s &#8220;full stack&#8221; &#8212; chips, systems and software) across 28 cities by 2028. </p><p>Beyond Nuro and NVIDIA, there are a slew of other AV providers (and Uber partners) currently piloting AVs (or close to it), with plans to operate commercially over the next couple years. These partners include: Apollo Go (owned by Baidu), WeRide, Pony.ai, Wayve, Waabi, Zoox, Motional, Volkswagen, Rivian, May Mobility, Avride and Momenta.</p><p>By the end of 2028, in fact, Uber will likely have two or more AV providers operating commercially and unsupervised within the same city across, say, 20+ major cities.</p><p><em>*In actuality, Uber already has AVs operating commercially in a handful of international markets. They also do in the US through Waymo in two markets (Austin and Atlanta). </em></p><div><hr></div><p>Whether or not Uber can get AVs on its platform is not the only risk that AVs present, however (in fact, I&#8217;d argue that&#8217;s probably not much of a risk at this point). I&#8217;d say the main risk, and what remains to be seen, is what increased competition (from Waymo, Tesla, and Zoox primarily) will do to the growth and margins of Uber&#8217;s mobility business.</p><p>An Uber ride is ultimately a commodity product or thereabouts. When someone wants to get from A to B, it doesn&#8217;t really matter if it&#8217;s an Uber, a Lyft, a Waymo or a Tesla. They mostly just want the best price, and a low-ish (&lt;3-5 min) ETA. Having more options (e.g. Waymo, Tesla) in the market that can provide this is not good for Uber. Even worse is the specter that these AV offerings will get much cheaper over time, eventually displacing human drivers altogether.</p><p>Uber, for its part, is well aware of and trying to get ahead of this shift. For one, Uber has its own AV partners, as discussed above, that should allow it to keep pace with the likes of Waymo and Tesla (to what degree it can keep pace is discussed later). Another key initiative is the Uber One membership program. The company has ~50mm Uber One members (growing ~50% YoY) who represent ~50% of all bookings on the platform. It&#8217;s a hugely important competitive differentiator in the industry. Uber also benefits from the fact that half of its business does not actually come from mobility (it comes from delivery). And of the half that comes from mobility, only about 40% is generated in the US (the market most prone to AV disruption).</p><p>Ultimately, however, the reason Uber is interesting is that, even if Uber were to cede market share in its mobility business, there&#8217;s a pretty good chance it could still grow the business strongly for another decade+. This is because, as AVs proliferate, the cost of rideshare will increasingly approach the cost of personal car ownership (before eventually dipping below it, many believe). This will unlock a massive portion of the mobility market, of which Uber/Lyft represent less than 1% of today (in terms of total miles traveled). Once rideshare costs less than personal car ownership (in addition to offering the convenience of not having to park your car, charge it, maintain it, insure it, etc.), where does rideshare&#8217;s overall market share land? 10% of all miles traveled? 20%? 30%? More? As we&#8217;ll see below, there are not unreasonable scenarios in which Uber ultimately cedes market share (from ~70% today to say 50% or less) but still grows its US mobility business by 15%+ for a decade+.</p><div><hr></div><p>Outside of the AV risk, there&#8217;s a lot to like about Uber.</p><p>The company has a lot of momentum. Revenue has grown by 17%, 18% and 18% over 2023-2025, respectively. EBITDA has grown by 137%, 60% and 35% over 2023-2025, respectively. Monthly active users have grown by 15%, 14% and 18% over 2023-2025, respectively.</p><p>As mentioned above, their membership offering is growing rapidly. Uber is the only group that can offer benefits on both mobility and delivery simultaneously &#8212; a key structural advantage they just extended to 58 countries (from 34) through the acquisition of Delivery Hero. And the Uber One program continues to get better. As of Apr-26, Uber One members can earn 10% cash back (in the form of Uber credits) on hotels/Vrbo&#8217;s booked through Uber (via their partnership with Expedia). This is <em>on top of</em> an additional to 20% off a rolling list of 10,000 hotels &#8212; even <em>The Points Guy</em> <a href="https://thepointsguy.com/travel/uber-expedia/">thinks</a> this is a pretty good deal. </p><p>Further, Uber continues to have a deep moat. It operates in essentially duopolies (if not borderline monopolies) in just about every one of its markets around the world (across mobility and delivery). It is the leader or clear leader in most of these markets.</p><p>Lastly, despite rapidly inflecting profitability, the stock has traded sideways over the last ~2.5 years. Its multiple stands at just ~10x &#8216;27e adj EBITDA &#8212; quite &#8220;undemanding&#8221; I would say, if you are a believer in the business. </p><p>Hopefully the following write-up sheds good light on the opportunity. Between the two sides of the business (mobility + delivery), the global nature of Uber, and the rise of AVs, frankly it&#8217;s not an easy one to connect the dots on. And given how rapidly the industry is changing, this write-up could have a short self-life. However, we do seem on the cusp of a giant &#8220;s-curve&#8221; in autonomous vehicles. With Uber still the 500-lb gorilla in the space, at a minimum the company should prove to be a very interesting follow over the coming decade(s). </p><div class="subscription-widget-wrap-editor" data-attrs="{&quot;url&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/subscribe?&quot;,&quot;text&quot;:&quot;Subscribe&quot;,&quot;language&quot;:&quot;en&quot;}" data-component-name="SubscribeWidgetToDOM"><div class="subscription-widget show-subscribe"><div class="preamble"><p class="cta-caption">Thanks for reading Lewistown Capital! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work.</p></div><form class="subscription-widget-subscribe"><input type="email" class="email-input" name="email" placeholder="Type your email&#8230;" tabindex="-1"><input type="submit" class="button primary" value="Subscribe"><div class="fake-input-wrapper"><div class="fake-input"></div><div class="fake-button"></div></div></form></div></div><div><hr></div><h2>Business Overview</h2><p>Just about everyone knows Uber. It&#8217;s an app where you press a button, and then a car shows up and takes you where you want to go. It&#8217;s also, through Uber Eats, an app where you press a button, and food shows up (or increasingly, other goods).</p><p>Uber currently serves (1) ~58 countries with both &#8220;Uber&#8221; and &#8220;Uber Eats&#8221; (i.e. &#8220;cross-platform&#8221; markets) (2) ~12 countries with &#8220;Uber&#8221; only, and (3) ~23 countries with &#8220;Uber Eats&#8221; only.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!vU8L!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F5f7186a4-0e8a-404f-9133-ad4ba36ed565_4400x2351.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!vU8L!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F5f7186a4-0e8a-404f-9133-ad4ba36ed565_4400x2351.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!vU8L!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F5f7186a4-0e8a-404f-9133-ad4ba36ed565_4400x2351.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!vU8L!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F5f7186a4-0e8a-404f-9133-ad4ba36ed565_4400x2351.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!vU8L!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F5f7186a4-0e8a-404f-9133-ad4ba36ed565_4400x2351.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!vU8L!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F5f7186a4-0e8a-404f-9133-ad4ba36ed565_4400x2351.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!vU8L!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F5f7186a4-0e8a-404f-9133-ad4ba36ed565_4400x2351.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Prior to the Delivery Hero acquisition, just announced in Jul-26, Uber operated (1) ~34 &#8220;cross-platform&#8221; markets, (2) ~36 &#8220;Uber&#8221;-only markets, and (3) no &#8220;Uber Eats&#8221;-only markets.</p><p>Pro forma for the Delivery Hero acquisition, the US represents ~37% of Uber&#8217;s total revenue. On just the mobility side, the US represents ~40% of bookings.</p><p>The company was founded in 2009 by Travis Kalanick, Garrett Camp, and Ryan Graves. The idea for Uber supposedly came to Camp while, of all things, he was watching this scene from the 2006 James Bond film, <em>Casino Royale</em>:</p><div id="youtube2-xRlpfEBdyHk" class="youtube-wrap" data-attrs="{&quot;videoId&quot;:&quot;xRlpfEBdyHk&quot;,&quot;startTime&quot;:&quot;31&quot;,&quot;endTime&quot;:null}" data-component-name="Youtube2ToDOM"><div class="youtube-inner"><iframe src="https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/xRlpfEBdyHk?start=31&amp;rel=0&amp;autoplay=0&amp;showinfo=0&amp;enablejsapi=0" frameborder="0" loading="lazy" gesture="media" allow="autoplay; fullscreen" allowautoplay="true" allowfullscreen="true" width="728" height="409"></iframe></div></div><p>After building the initial app, the three founders canvassed SF signing up drivers. In exchange for free iPhones, through which drivers could access the Uber driver app, drivers joined the platform (it turned out many drivers had plenty of free time between the occasional airport pickup, etc.). Once driver supply was live, and after a little marketing, they watched as demand flooded in. By all accounts there was just about instantaneous and overwhelming product-market fit.</p><p>Many will not remember prior to Uber, how comparatively bad the experience was of hailing a cab. You had to call the dispatch, a 1-800 number. Dispatch told you it was sending a cab, but you didn&#8217;t know if one would show up in 1 minute or 15 minutes (or if one would show up at all). Payment after the ride was a process like paying for the bill at a restaurant. With Uber, you could hail a cab by touching a button. You could see the cab&#8217;s ETA, even where it was on a map. Payment was automatic.</p><p>With clear product-market fit, Kalanick and team set about aggressively growing the business. Uber parachuted &#8220;launchers&#8221; into new cities who would hire a local team, scour Yelp for and cold call potential drivers (and initially pay them by the hour just to sit on the platform), and generate demand through mostly referrals and word-of-mouth. They often ignored complaints from taxi commissions and/or city regulators &#8212; launching first, and asking for forgiveness later. Uber Eats was launched in 2014, becoming its own dedicated app in 2015. </p><p>As competition escalated, Uber became increasingly aggressive with incentives on both the driver and rider sides. The company became one of the poster boys of ZIRP-era spending, burning prodigious sums of cash. Per the chart below, the company generated around ~$30bn in cumulative operating loses before turning EBIT positive in 2023. </p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Pq5-!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1f5111a9-d89e-46af-a3da-30bb05c1d512_649x643.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Pq5-!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1f5111a9-d89e-46af-a3da-30bb05c1d512_649x643.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Pq5-!, 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1f5111a9-d89e-46af-a3da-30bb05c1d512_649x643.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Pq5-!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1f5111a9-d89e-46af-a3da-30bb05c1d512_649x643.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Pq5-!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1f5111a9-d89e-46af-a3da-30bb05c1d512_649x643.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Pq5-!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1f5111a9-d89e-46af-a3da-30bb05c1d512_649x643.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>In an effort to reduce its cash burn, over 2016-2020, Uber sold off its China, Russia, SE Asia and India (delivery) businesses, its self-driving technology division (&#8220;ATG&#8221;) and its eVTOL technology division (&#8220;Uber Elevate&#8221;). As these cash burning segments were clipped off, as demand pressure from COVID abated, and as ZIRP-era spending faded, the company has been able to rapidly inflect its profitability. </p><p>Despite this, however, shares have traded sideways over the last ~2.5 years. The rise of robotaxis has opened up the playing field to new entrants (e.g. Waymo, Tesla), a frightening development which seems to be keeping a lid on the share price.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!710e!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb72b12b5-cad8-444b-a181-90debf86e3f8_2400x1240.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!710e!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb72b12b5-cad8-444b-a181-90debf86e3f8_2400x1240.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!710e!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb72b12b5-cad8-444b-a181-90debf86e3f8_2400x1240.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!710e!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb72b12b5-cad8-444b-a181-90debf86e3f8_2400x1240.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!710e!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb72b12b5-cad8-444b-a181-90debf86e3f8_2400x1240.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!710e!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb72b12b5-cad8-444b-a181-90debf86e3f8_2400x1240.png" width="1456" height="752" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/b72b12b5-cad8-444b-a181-90debf86e3f8_2400x1240.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:752,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:245953,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/189172282?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb72b12b5-cad8-444b-a181-90debf86e3f8_2400x1240.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!710e!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb72b12b5-cad8-444b-a181-90debf86e3f8_2400x1240.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!710e!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb72b12b5-cad8-444b-a181-90debf86e3f8_2400x1240.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!710e!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb72b12b5-cad8-444b-a181-90debf86e3f8_2400x1240.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!710e!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb72b12b5-cad8-444b-a181-90debf86e3f8_2400x1240.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>This isn&#8217;t necessarily unwarranted &#8212; the rise of AV technology increases uncertainty. Waymo is the clear leader, and has a &#8220;1P&#8221; offering that completely circumvents the Uber platform. Further, Tesla is a scary specter of a competitor that is seemingly on the verge of L4 autonomy.</p><div><hr></div><h2>Investment Merits</h2><p><em>A Natural Monopoly</em></p><p>I&#8217;d argue Uber has historically operated a natural monopoly. It&#8217;s a natural monopoly because in markets in which it operates, it has been &#8220;rational&#8221; for one firm to occupy the entire market. </p><p>Drivers mostly care about where they can generate the most earnings. The most earnings are generated by the most liquid marketplace, where the most riders are and the downtime is lowest. Riders care most about low pricing and reliability (ETAs and coverage). The marketplace with the most drivers has the best prices (most supply), the lowest ETAs and the best coverage.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-4" href="#footnote-4" target="_self">4</a></p><p>Thus, we have a virtuous flywheel, where the Uber service improves as more drivers/couriers and riders/consumers enter the ecosystem. Any platforms that take drivers/riders or couriers/consumers away from Uber, actually diminish the overall rideshare/delivery experience in a market.</p><p>The proof is in the proverbial pudding in that Uber has vanquished its main competitor in mobility, Lyft, basically twice (in both the Kalanick era and then again in the post Kalanick era after Lyft was given a second life). Similarly, mobility groups like Didi (rideshare in China) and Grab (rideshare + delivery in SE Asia) have also come to dominate their respective geos with huge market shares. These markets, once all players are forced to compete rationally (i.e. ex subsidies), have shown that they eventually converge to one dominant player over a long-enough timeframe. </p><p>The same, to a lesser degree, has happened in food delivery. Current delivery markets tend to have ~2-3 players, with the #1 player representing ~60%+ of a market (to oversimplify). Breaking into one of these markets today from a standing start is highly difficult. DoorDash, maybe the most sophisticated of all the food delivery operators, has been investing heavily in international expansion and the experience has not exactly been like a hot knife through butter. It&#8217;s been a slog rather, and DoorDash doesn&#8217;t seem to be making significant progress. </p><p>Autonomous vehicles pose a clear risk to the status quo. However, the post-AV world will share many of the same characteristics of the pre-AV world. Riders will care most about cost and ETAs. The owners of AVs will care most about maximizing earnings. The largest, most liquid marketplace will likely continue to win on both fronts.</p><p><em>Highly Attractive Financial Model</em></p><p>Uber is a marketplace business that takes a ~20% cut across all the transactions it helps orchestrate.</p><p>Marketplaces can be exceptional businesses. They require relatively little capital to grow and can generate high operating leverage and high margins. Uber is by far the largest &#8220;taxi&#8221; company in the world, yet it doesn&#8217;t own any cars (for now, at least).</p><p>Uber has almost 7x&#8217;d revenue since 2017 (a 27% CAGR). 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F924b5bd0-205f-47c7-a444-9bd6f7ac4fdf_1812x2032.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!pLZS!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F924b5bd0-205f-47c7-a444-9bd6f7ac4fdf_1812x2032.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!pLZS!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F924b5bd0-205f-47c7-a444-9bd6f7ac4fdf_1812x2032.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!pLZS!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F924b5bd0-205f-47c7-a444-9bd6f7ac4fdf_1812x2032.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>In the meantime, adj EBITDA margins have inflected dramatically &#8212; from -33% in 2017 to 17% in 2025. Uber generated ~$9bn in adj EBITDA in 2025.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!8cZn!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbb64c786-ded3-41b0-b8e7-2c46a8c8ea00_1637x1693.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!8cZn!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbb64c786-ded3-41b0-b8e7-2c46a8c8ea00_1637x1693.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!8cZn!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbb64c786-ded3-41b0-b8e7-2c46a8c8ea00_1637x1693.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!8cZn!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbb64c786-ded3-41b0-b8e7-2c46a8c8ea00_1637x1693.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!8cZn!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbb64c786-ded3-41b0-b8e7-2c46a8c8ea00_1637x1693.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!8cZn!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbb64c786-ded3-41b0-b8e7-2c46a8c8ea00_1637x1693.png" width="652" height="674.3901098901099" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/bb64c786-ded3-41b0-b8e7-2c46a8c8ea00_1637x1693.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1506,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:652,&quot;bytes&quot;:80943,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/189172282?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbb64c786-ded3-41b0-b8e7-2c46a8c8ea00_1637x1693.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!8cZn!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbb64c786-ded3-41b0-b8e7-2c46a8c8ea00_1637x1693.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!8cZn!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbb64c786-ded3-41b0-b8e7-2c46a8c8ea00_1637x1693.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!8cZn!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbb64c786-ded3-41b0-b8e7-2c46a8c8ea00_1637x1693.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!8cZn!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbb64c786-ded3-41b0-b8e7-2c46a8c8ea00_1637x1693.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Further margin expansion is expected. Much of this is the result of Uber&#8217;s low variable costs. Since 2022 the company has grown revenue by a CAGR of 18% while it has grown opex by a CAGR of just 3%. </p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!YecM!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F08329a48-e473-470a-a767-01911973102f_1813x1928.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!YecM!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F08329a48-e473-470a-a767-01911973102f_1813x1928.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!YecM!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F08329a48-e473-470a-a767-01911973102f_1813x1928.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!YecM!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F08329a48-e473-470a-a767-01911973102f_1813x1928.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!YecM!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F08329a48-e473-470a-a767-01911973102f_1813x1928.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!YecM!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F08329a48-e473-470a-a767-01911973102f_1813x1928.png" width="1456" height="1548" 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F08329a48-e473-470a-a767-01911973102f_1813x1928.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!YecM!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F08329a48-e473-470a-a767-01911973102f_1813x1928.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!YecM!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F08329a48-e473-470a-a767-01911973102f_1813x1928.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!YecM!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F08329a48-e473-470a-a767-01911973102f_1813x1928.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>I believe Uber will be able to wring out even more efficiencies from its cost structure through AI in the coming years. </p><p>With substantial excess free cash flow, Uber now finds itself with the capacity to invest in organic/inorganic growth and AV strategies, while also returning significant sums of capital to shareholders in the form of buybacks. </p><p><em>Uber One &gt; DashPass &gt; Lyft Pink &gt; Instacart+</em></p><p>Uber seemingly has the best membership program of all the delivery/mobility players. And the advantage is structural. While DoorDash/Instacart can offer discounts on delivery, and Lyft can offer discounts on mobility, Uber can offer discounts on both. Uber is also ~4.5x the size of DoorDash, ~10x the size of Lyft and ~17x the size of Instacart (by revenue, including Delivery Hero), so at this point Uber can use its greater size and profitability to swat away attempts from competitors to grab share. These peer groups are public now as well, and attempts to ramp cash burn to take share (a highly dubious proposition at this point in its own right) would be swiftly punished by the market.</p><p>For $9.99 per month, Uber One members benefit from a $0 delivery fee (there is still a &#8220;service&#8221; fee), 6% back on rides, up to 10% off on delivery/pickup orders over certain thresholds, automatic surge savings and other exclusive offers.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!PGtN!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb7a7e260-1b53-47c9-ad58-141091d9403b_741x660.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!PGtN!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb7a7e260-1b53-47c9-ad58-141091d9403b_741x660.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!PGtN!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb7a7e260-1b53-47c9-ad58-141091d9403b_741x660.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!PGtN!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb7a7e260-1b53-47c9-ad58-141091d9403b_741x660.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!PGtN!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb7a7e260-1b53-47c9-ad58-141091d9403b_741x660.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!PGtN!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb7a7e260-1b53-47c9-ad58-141091d9403b_741x660.png" width="741" height="660" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/b7a7e260-1b53-47c9-ad58-141091d9403b_741x660.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:660,&quot;width&quot;:741,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:185783,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/189172282?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb7a7e260-1b53-47c9-ad58-141091d9403b_741x660.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!PGtN!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb7a7e260-1b53-47c9-ad58-141091d9403b_741x660.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!PGtN!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb7a7e260-1b53-47c9-ad58-141091d9403b_741x660.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!PGtN!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb7a7e260-1b53-47c9-ad58-141091d9403b_741x660.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!PGtN!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb7a7e260-1b53-47c9-ad58-141091d9403b_741x660.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>For the same $9.99, a DashPass member receives $0 delivery fees, 5% back on eligible pickup orders, and certain member-exclusive deals. But of course there&#8217;s no mobility discount.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-5" href="#footnote-5" target="_self">5</a> So unless you believe DoorDash&#8217;s coverage/ETAs are materially better than Uber&#8217;s, and/or never use Uber on the mobility side, Uber One seems the better choice.</p><p>Here is Dara on a Mar-26 <em>Semafor</em> podcast highlighting Uber One&#8217;s differentiated position:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;Uber One has been an enormous success. It&#8217;s one of the fastest growing parts of our business. We&#8217;ve got over 46 million members now, growing well over 50% on a year-on-year basis. And close to 50% of the overall spend on Uber now comes from members. </em></p><p><em>And the way I look at membership to some extent is we compete against players who are rides-only players or delivery-only players. We have both. And our membership typically is priced at the same level [as our] competitors. <strong>And to some extent, I think we look like Netflix, which is you pay a certain amount and we just have more content than anyone else. And the player who has more content is the player who, over a long, long period of time, wins.</strong> And winning means getting you to use my services on a frequent basis hopefully for the rest of your life. </em></p><p><em>And membership, it is a trade-off for the consumer, which is I&#8217;m going to pay some money up front. It creates stickiness for you in that ecosystem because you&#8217;ve already paid. But what we see out of membership is that the use of our services, both in terms of the amount you spend &#8212; members spend about three times more than non-members &#8212; but also the cross-platform usage of members. &#8216;Hey, I&#8217;ve got an Uber One membership because I use Uber for rides all the time. Let me try Uber Eats because there&#8217;s no delivery fee. Why not?&#8217; That kind of activity, the cross-platform activity also accelerates.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>The growth in Uber&#8217;s membership base backs up the attractiveness of the program. The membership program has rapidly expanded over the past four years. From 6 million members in 2021, the program exited Q1&#8217;26 with 50 million members growing ~50%. Today, Uber One members represent ~50% of total bookings on the Uber platform (across both mobility and delivery), a surprisingly large figure (which continues to grow strongly).</p><p>Of late, Uber has been doubling down on its membership program, further enhancing its differentiation. In Q2&#8217;24 Uber introduced Uber One for Students at a price of $4.99 per month across the US. And in Q4&#8217;25 Uber began offering Family Sharing, &#8220;allowing members to extend benefits to another adult and their teens at no additional cost.&#8221;</p><p>Further in Apr-26, Uber announced that users could now book hotels/Vrbo&#8217;s on Uber (through a partnership with Expedia). Uber One members will get at least a 20% discount on a rolling list of 10,000 hotels, as well as an additional 10% back in Uber credits on every booking. Uber also <a href="https://investor.uber.com/news-events/news/press-release-details/2026/Uber-to-Acquire-Parking-App-SpotHero/default.aspx">hinted</a> that Uber One members will soon have the opportunity to benefit from discounts on parking through SpotHero, after acquiring the business in Feb-26. In grocery, Uber announced a &#8220;no fees above $60&#8221; benefit for Uber One members on eligible orders in the US.</p><p>More benefits will likely come. In theory, as the subscriber base grows, it should be easier for Uber to strike partnerships, spinning the flywheel faster. There&#8217;s no doubt Uber has circled flights/air travel as a key potential opportunity, amongst other categories. </p><p>Here&#8217;s a look at Uber One membership vs. other large consumer membership offerings:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!CRPc!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F58e151f1-7ec3-4f5e-86d2-12f83740bda7_1787x1838.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!CRPc!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F58e151f1-7ec3-4f5e-86d2-12f83740bda7_1787x1838.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!CRPc!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F58e151f1-7ec3-4f5e-86d2-12f83740bda7_1787x1838.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!CRPc!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F58e151f1-7ec3-4f5e-86d2-12f83740bda7_1787x1838.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!CRPc!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F58e151f1-7ec3-4f5e-86d2-12f83740bda7_1787x1838.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!CRPc!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F58e151f1-7ec3-4f5e-86d2-12f83740bda7_1787x1838.png" width="726" height="746.9423076923077" 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F58e151f1-7ec3-4f5e-86d2-12f83740bda7_1787x1838.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!CRPc!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F58e151f1-7ec3-4f5e-86d2-12f83740bda7_1787x1838.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!CRPc!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F58e151f1-7ec3-4f5e-86d2-12f83740bda7_1787x1838.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!CRPc!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F58e151f1-7ec3-4f5e-86d2-12f83740bda7_1787x1838.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>This chart, as well as Uber One&#8217;s growth rate, would seem to imply that there is still significant room for growth. Uber One looks well on its way to surpassing Costco membership given its 50%+ growth rate, by far the highest of these comps (other than DoorDash). Uber added ~20mm members in 2025 alone. Uber also stands to add perhaps 10-20mm new members from Delivery Hero&#8217;s base of roughly ~49mm MAPCs.</p><p>Are all these membership giveaways actually a good deal for Uber? you may be asking. Well, according to Uber &#8212; yes. While the membership program lowers a member&#8217;s profitability initially, over time this is made up for through increased stickiness and greater spend (i.e. customer lifetime value increases).<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-6" href="#footnote-6" target="_self">6</a></p><p><em>AVs Should Expand Uber&#8217;s Mobility TAM Significantly </em></p><p>According to the FHA, US drivers travel 3tn miles annually (excluding large trucks, which represent ~10% of miles driven). </p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!wlxn!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa21d0836-12a2-4ee7-bdb6-ff26d928251a_659x408.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!wlxn!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa21d0836-12a2-4ee7-bdb6-ff26d928251a_659x408.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!wlxn!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa21d0836-12a2-4ee7-bdb6-ff26d928251a_659x408.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!wlxn!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa21d0836-12a2-4ee7-bdb6-ff26d928251a_659x408.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!wlxn!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa21d0836-12a2-4ee7-bdb6-ff26d928251a_659x408.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!wlxn!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa21d0836-12a2-4ee7-bdb6-ff26d928251a_659x408.png" width="659" height="408" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/a21d0836-12a2-4ee7-bdb6-ff26d928251a_659x408.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:408,&quot;width&quot;:659,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:74584,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/189172282?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa21d0836-12a2-4ee7-bdb6-ff26d928251a_659x408.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!wlxn!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa21d0836-12a2-4ee7-bdb6-ff26d928251a_659x408.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!wlxn!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa21d0836-12a2-4ee7-bdb6-ff26d928251a_659x408.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!wlxn!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa21d0836-12a2-4ee7-bdb6-ff26d928251a_659x408.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!wlxn!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa21d0836-12a2-4ee7-bdb6-ff26d928251a_659x408.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Today, the rideshare companies (Uber &amp; Lyft) represent &lt;1% of all of these miles traveled:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4TxN!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F90a725c5-02a1-4348-ae75-f206202235ae_1489x1073.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4TxN!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F90a725c5-02a1-4348-ae75-f206202235ae_1489x1073.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4TxN!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F90a725c5-02a1-4348-ae75-f206202235ae_1489x1073.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4TxN!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F90a725c5-02a1-4348-ae75-f206202235ae_1489x1073.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4TxN!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F90a725c5-02a1-4348-ae75-f206202235ae_1489x1073.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4TxN!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F90a725c5-02a1-4348-ae75-f206202235ae_1489x1073.png" width="703" height="506.4883241758242" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/90a725c5-02a1-4348-ae75-f206202235ae_1489x1073.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1049,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:703,&quot;bytes&quot;:102361,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/189172282?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F90a725c5-02a1-4348-ae75-f206202235ae_1489x1073.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4TxN!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F90a725c5-02a1-4348-ae75-f206202235ae_1489x1073.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4TxN!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F90a725c5-02a1-4348-ae75-f206202235ae_1489x1073.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4TxN!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F90a725c5-02a1-4348-ae75-f206202235ae_1489x1073.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4TxN!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F90a725c5-02a1-4348-ae75-f206202235ae_1489x1073.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>The cost of rideshare, however, is set to fall significantly (1) once the driver is removed from the car, and (2) the cost of AV hardware drops sufficiently. It&#8217;s expected that the cost of rideshare will drop below the cost of personal car ownership sometime over the next decade.</p><p>Here is a forecast from <a href="https://www.goldmansachs.com/insights/articles/autonomous-vehicle-market-forecast-to-grow-ridesharing-presence">Goldman Sachs</a> from Jul-25:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ObWM!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fdd8af3f4-fce6-492b-a952-fdbf6d67a4d0_685x492.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ObWM!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fdd8af3f4-fce6-492b-a952-fdbf6d67a4d0_685x492.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ObWM!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fdd8af3f4-fce6-492b-a952-fdbf6d67a4d0_685x492.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ObWM!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fdd8af3f4-fce6-492b-a952-fdbf6d67a4d0_685x492.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ObWM!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fdd8af3f4-fce6-492b-a952-fdbf6d67a4d0_685x492.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ObWM!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fdd8af3f4-fce6-492b-a952-fdbf6d67a4d0_685x492.png" width="685" height="492" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/dd8af3f4-fce6-492b-a952-fdbf6d67a4d0_685x492.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:492,&quot;width&quot;:685,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:77851,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/189172282?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fdd8af3f4-fce6-492b-a952-fdbf6d67a4d0_685x492.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ObWM!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fdd8af3f4-fce6-492b-a952-fdbf6d67a4d0_685x492.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ObWM!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fdd8af3f4-fce6-492b-a952-fdbf6d67a4d0_685x492.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ObWM!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fdd8af3f4-fce6-492b-a952-fdbf6d67a4d0_685x492.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ObWM!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fdd8af3f4-fce6-492b-a952-fdbf6d67a4d0_685x492.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>To date, in fact, I think it&#8217;s fair to say costs have fallen more quickly than expected. Waymo&#8217;s upfitted Jaguar I-Pace is rumored to have cost ~$150k per vehicle, while its newer Ojai/Zeekr might be less than half that, in the <a href="/__u/itcanthink.substack.com/p/the-first-mass-produced-robotaxi">$60-75k</a> range. Tesla claims its Robotaxi will have a starting price in the <a href="https://www.topgear.com/car-news/first-look/tesla-robotaxi-finally-here-yours-30k">$30k</a> range. Baidu&#8217;s RT6 robotaxi has had an all-in cost of <a href="https://www.thedriverlessdigest.com/p/uber-nuro-and-lucid-ink-massive-robotaxi">less than $30k</a> since 2024.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-7" href="#footnote-7" target="_self">7</a></p><p>A fully functional L4 AV for less than $30k would already put rideshare around price parity with personally-owned vehicles in many developed markets (discussed later). </p><p>Innovation around vehicle form factor will likely take another big chunk of costs out of the system. Cars today are built to handle extreme use cases. I personally own a car that seats 7, but the vast majority of our trips only transport 1-3 people. Many EVs come with ranges of 400+ miles, but our average trip is just a few miles around the neighborhood.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-8" href="#footnote-8" target="_self">8</a> Different form factors will emerge to handle different types of trips. For example, if you are traveling solo for a few miles in a residential area, in the future you&#8217;ll likely get matched with a super cheap 2-seater (that can&#8217;t even go on highways).<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-9" href="#footnote-9" target="_self">9</a> </p><p>Assuming 3tn miles traveled, here is how large the US rideshare market could be under a range of price per mile and market share scenarios. </p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!3aus!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff29270c0-868c-4509-a8a3-85e7d619a0df_1685x713.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!3aus!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff29270c0-868c-4509-a8a3-85e7d619a0df_1685x713.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!3aus!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff29270c0-868c-4509-a8a3-85e7d619a0df_1685x713.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!3aus!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff29270c0-868c-4509-a8a3-85e7d619a0df_1685x713.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!3aus!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff29270c0-868c-4509-a8a3-85e7d619a0df_1685x713.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!3aus!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff29270c0-868c-4509-a8a3-85e7d619a0df_1685x713.png" width="1456" height="616" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/f29270c0-868c-4509-a8a3-85e7d619a0df_1685x713.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:616,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:92619,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/189172282?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff29270c0-868c-4509-a8a3-85e7d619a0df_1685x713.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!3aus!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff29270c0-868c-4509-a8a3-85e7d619a0df_1685x713.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!3aus!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff29270c0-868c-4509-a8a3-85e7d619a0df_1685x713.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!3aus!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff29270c0-868c-4509-a8a3-85e7d619a0df_1685x713.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!3aus!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff29270c0-868c-4509-a8a3-85e7d619a0df_1685x713.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>If say the cost of rideshare dropped to $1.50, and rideshare as a % of miles traveled hit 15%, the total market size in the US would be $675bn, as an example.</p><p>Note that more total miles traveled could also result from autonomy. People could likely stand living a bit farther from work if they don&#8217;t have to drive. Instead of flying from SF to LA, a car could pick you and the family up at your front door and drive you straight to your destination while you nap, watch a show, work, etc. No airports, no hauling around luggage, no dealing with cars to/from the airport, and a door-to-door travel time that would be comparable. You could even book last minute for no extra cost. Further, at some point eVTOLs will be a thing, and likely <a href="https://www.uber.com/us/en/newsroom/uber-air/">bookable on Uber</a>, which could be another source of miles on the platform.</p><p>Below are some potential growth scenarios for Uber in US mobility, assuming different rideshare growth scenarios and Uber market share scenarios. If we assume the market grows a bit (5%) to $3.15bn, a price per mile of $1.50, that AV penetration hits 12.5%, and that Uber&#8217;s mkt share falls to 50%, Uber&#8217;s US mobility business would ~7.6x (a 14% CAGR if we assume this takes 15 years).</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!hIca!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F5ce5e9de-9b66-4421-9292-ead571db3155_1561x797.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!hIca!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F5ce5e9de-9b66-4421-9292-ead571db3155_1561x797.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!hIca!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F5ce5e9de-9b66-4421-9292-ead571db3155_1561x797.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!hIca!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F5ce5e9de-9b66-4421-9292-ead571db3155_1561x797.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!hIca!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F5ce5e9de-9b66-4421-9292-ead571db3155_1561x797.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!hIca!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F5ce5e9de-9b66-4421-9292-ead571db3155_1561x797.png" width="1456" height="743" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/5ce5e9de-9b66-4421-9292-ead571db3155_1561x797.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:743,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:113479,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/189172282?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F5ce5e9de-9b66-4421-9292-ead571db3155_1561x797.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!hIca!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F5ce5e9de-9b66-4421-9292-ead571db3155_1561x797.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!hIca!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F5ce5e9de-9b66-4421-9292-ead571db3155_1561x797.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!hIca!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F5ce5e9de-9b66-4421-9292-ead571db3155_1561x797.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!hIca!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F5ce5e9de-9b66-4421-9292-ead571db3155_1561x797.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>This is a highly &#8220;back-of-envelope&#8221; analysis, but it gives us an idea of the potential that AVs could unlock for Uber. Much of the investment thesis for Uber depends on where you land on (1) overall robotaxi market share and (2) what piece of that Uber can retain.</p><p>Uber, as you can imagine, has spun this as a $1tn opportunity in US mobility alone:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!6L1r!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1ee9e725-554c-4b50-af9d-5cc1273ad226_990x560.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!6L1r!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1ee9e725-554c-4b50-af9d-5cc1273ad226_990x560.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!6L1r!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1ee9e725-554c-4b50-af9d-5cc1273ad226_990x560.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!6L1r!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1ee9e725-554c-4b50-af9d-5cc1273ad226_990x560.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!6L1r!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1ee9e725-554c-4b50-af9d-5cc1273ad226_990x560.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!6L1r!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1ee9e725-554c-4b50-af9d-5cc1273ad226_990x560.png" width="990" height="560" 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1ee9e725-554c-4b50-af9d-5cc1273ad226_990x560.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!6L1r!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1ee9e725-554c-4b50-af9d-5cc1273ad226_990x560.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!6L1r!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1ee9e725-554c-4b50-af9d-5cc1273ad226_990x560.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!6L1r!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1ee9e725-554c-4b50-af9d-5cc1273ad226_990x560.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" 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y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>It&#8217;s possible they are right, but to hit $1tn in US mobility, it will likely require 25%+ of all miles traveled to be rideshare.</p><p><em>Internationally, Uber Eats is DoorDash</em></p><p>I actually began my work in this space looking at DoorDash. I was a loyal DoorDash user and had seen a few compelling theses on the business. In doing my research, however, one thing that surprised me was that DoorDash seemed to be struggling taking market share internationally. DoorDash is considered by many to be the best operator in the space, and that dovetailed with my experience as a user. I enjoyed the product, and my feeling from past experience was that Uber Eats was not nearly as good (more expensive, less selection, longer ETAs, no &#8220;DoubleDash&#8221;). Further, as someone who lives in the suburbs, I&#8217;m not a heavy rideshare user. Thus, I wasn&#8217;t necessarily a prime target for Uber One.</p><p>To my surprise, however, internationally Uber Eats is DoorDash (i.e. Uber Eats is the dominant provider in many of the largest non-US markets). This dynamic is only further enhanced by Uber&#8217;s acquisition of Delivery Hero. See below my highly unofficial (i.e. pieced together through various one-off datapoints) table of the leading food delivery players by geo.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!q-2z!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F50fdc6d8-cbe7-4f76-90a2-c1bf31031a79_2869x2591.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!q-2z!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F50fdc6d8-cbe7-4f76-90a2-c1bf31031a79_2869x2591.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!q-2z!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F50fdc6d8-cbe7-4f76-90a2-c1bf31031a79_2869x2591.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!q-2z!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F50fdc6d8-cbe7-4f76-90a2-c1bf31031a79_2869x2591.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!q-2z!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F50fdc6d8-cbe7-4f76-90a2-c1bf31031a79_2869x2591.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!q-2z!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F50fdc6d8-cbe7-4f76-90a2-c1bf31031a79_2869x2591.png" width="1456" height="1315" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/50fdc6d8-cbe7-4f76-90a2-c1bf31031a79_2869x2591.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1315,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:678518,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/189172282?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F50fdc6d8-cbe7-4f76-90a2-c1bf31031a79_2869x2591.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!q-2z!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F50fdc6d8-cbe7-4f76-90a2-c1bf31031a79_2869x2591.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!q-2z!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F50fdc6d8-cbe7-4f76-90a2-c1bf31031a79_2869x2591.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!q-2z!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F50fdc6d8-cbe7-4f76-90a2-c1bf31031a79_2869x2591.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!q-2z!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F50fdc6d8-cbe7-4f76-90a2-c1bf31031a79_2869x2591.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>As we can see, Uber Eats leads in Japan, the UK, France, Canada, Australia, Mexico, Turkey and Taiwan. By way of the Delivery Hero deal, Uber Eats also now leads in South Korea, Saudi Arabia, Argentina, Egypt, the UAE and more. Amongst the major, non-US markets, in fact, DoorDash only leads in Italy, and only by way of its recent acquisition of Deliveroo.</p><p>As a result of its higher market share, Uber Eats should naturally have an edge when it comes to generating lower ETAs, better prices, and more selection in these countries. Further, Uber provides mobility in every one of its top Uber Eats&#8217; countries (other than the Philippines), tying the two offerings together through Uber One. Based on this, it makes a lot of sense that DoorDash was struggling taking share. DoorDash is structurally disadvantaged in two ways (less market share + no mobility offering) in almost all international markets where it competes with Uber.</p><p>A telling development occurred in Feb-26 when Uber announced it was launching delivery efforts in <a href="https://finance.yahoo.com/news/uber-enters-7-european-markets-052114284.html">seven European markets</a>, including Finland, Denmark and Norway. This was surprising because these are some of Wolt&#8217;s (the European player that DoorDash acquired in Nov-21 at a massive GMV multiple) oldest and strongest markets. Wolt was actually founded in Finland and is still HQ&#8217;d in Helsinki. Finland is not a large market either. So why would Uber seemingly waste its time/money attacking these Wolt strongholds? Uber is not of the mindset of launching into markets in which it can&#8217;t compete (over the years it has pulled out of China, Russia, and SE Asia completely and India, Brazil, Italy, and Israel in food delivery). Well, Uber must feel that it has a real shot in these markets, which in and of itself I think is a meaningful datapoint.</p><p>DoorDash also recently announced it was <a href="https://ir.doordash.com/news/news-details/2026/DoorDash-to-Wind-Down-Deliveroo-and-Wolt-Operations-in-Four-Countries/default.aspx">exiting Japan</a>. DoorDash launched in Japan in 2021 and Wolt was actually there before DoorDash, planting a flag in 2020. Neither DoorDash nor Wolt were able to ultimately make inroads while Uber (there since 2016) has continued to grow and now accounts for ~60% of the market. </p><p><em>Strong Potential for AI-Driven Efficiency Gains</em></p><p>Uber&#8217;s top three most important capabilities might arguably be: (1) its pricing/matching/prediction engines that sit at the core of its marketplaces, (2) developing great apps (which includes recommendation engines, advertising) for both the consumer as well as the driver/courier, and (3) customer/driver/merchant support.</p><p>All three of these areas are primed for AI-driven enhancement. And based on quotes from management, Uber is likely only scratching the surface at this point re AI actually impacting its financial performance. Here is commentary from Dara on the opportunity in customer service<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-10" href="#footnote-10" target="_self">10</a>, the opportunity in software development<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-11" href="#footnote-11" target="_self">11</a>, and both (from a Mar-25 Morgan Stanley conference):</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;So I think every company in the world is going to tell you that they&#8217;re using AI and it&#8217;s awesome and they&#8217;re going to save lots of money. Actually getting AI to work in an enterprise at scale, I&#8217;m finding, is really, really hard. It&#8217;s very easy to have little &#8212; call it, little optimizations that increase some efficiency about 5%, but we want much more than that, right? We want 20%, 30%, 40% increases in efficiency.</em></p><p><em>And the good news for us is like I&#8217;m finally seeing real signs of it. The scale areas where you&#8217;re going to see material differences in terms of AI and these larger models and having big impact on our business are with customer service. Now it&#8217;s not just easy. You don&#8217;t take these models and train them on a bunch of customer service interactions and expect results. It&#8217;s smaller parts of the customer service, your history as a customer, are you a good customer, a bad customer, your claim, you said that your food was getting in late. Did it actually get in late? What&#8217;s the policy? What&#8217;s the communication, et cetera? We are kind of &#8212; we have AI models optimizing each of those. Maybe we&#8217;ll have one giant end-to-end model at some point, but we don&#8217;t [today]. <strong>That activity is coming together, which is going to translate into hundreds of millions of dollars of customer service savings, at, we think, better outcomes.</strong> </em></p><p><em>Same thing as it relates to developer productivity. We&#8217;ve kind of had, I&#8217;d say, level 1 of dev productivity. Earlier uses of products that got us, call it, 10% to 15% improvements in productivity. We&#8217;re now hitting the next level. And it takes &#8212; it&#8217;s hard to get to these next levels, but I think that, over the next 2 to 3 years, you will see &#8212; <strong>we expect to see benefits in the hundreds of millions of dollars with better outcomes, which is what we&#8217;re demanding of our teams.</strong></em></p><p><em>And I would tell you that it is &#8212; it has taken multiple optimizations for us to get there. It is not easy, but it&#8217;s absolutely worth the effort that we&#8217;re putting into it. <strong>And I&#8217;m a lot more optimistic today than I was 6 months ago</strong>. Like there&#8217;s &#8212; I&#8217;m seeing breakthroughs, and obviously, with the amount of capital coming into the marketplace, the ecosystem is on our side.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>Here is Dara on the opportunity in better recommendation engines, search and discovery (from a Dec-25 episode of <em>On with Kara Swisher)</em>:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;But we have long been driven by AI in all things pricing, matching, etc.&#8230;But the models, the ability to just build larger models now, right? So for example, if you&#8217;re on Uber Eats, you have a &#8216;sort&#8217; that&#8217;s unique to you based on your past behavior and just patterns that we know about you &#8212; what your favorite restaurants are, etc. And we don&#8217;t want to just serve you those favorite restaurants. We also want to help you explore new places, etc. <strong>These models, as they get larger and as we get better silicon are just getting more and more powerful and capable&#8230;</strong>If you&#8217;re shopping with us and you choose oat milk, what&#8217;s the next thing that we show you? These larger models are enormously more effective than the last generation of models.&#8221;</em> </p></blockquote><p>Steve Jang, an early investor in Uber, in a Nov-24 appearance on <em>Yahoo Finance</em>, discusses the opportunity in the company&#8217;s core prediction engines:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;Uber has historically been one of the largest real-time real world applications of AI/ML in the world. The marketplace engine makes 10 million predictions per second on behalf of its drivers and riders and delivery couriers. <strong>At its core, it is a giant, global prediction engine orchestrating all this movement.</strong> Now, have they tapped into generative AI and all the cost efficiencies and all the productivity benefits there? Not yet. It&#8217;s a large scale operation. They&#8217;re starting to make those transitions. And when they transform, I think that the cost and the software-like scalability of the company will really come out. You&#8217;re seeing today a 40% gross margin with a 10% operating profit margin. That&#8217;s starting to look &#8212; that&#8217;s transitioning into a software company. <strong>And so I think with generative AI and all the work that they&#8217;re putting in right now to transform their internal operations and their network across the world, I think that&#8217;s the second or third area of opportunity for them.</strong>&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>Uber seems well positioned to capture any AI-driven efficiency gains given it will still enjoy strong competitive moats across both mobility/delivery for many years to come (i.e. gains won&#8217;t be competed away).</p><p><em>Uber&#8217;s Ad Business is a Monster</em></p><p>Uber Eats is a highly attractive and impactful place to advertise for merchants. Uber Eats generates a ton of traffic and sits right up against the &#8220;point of purchase,&#8221; where more and more ad spend is flowing (vs. say &#8220;top-of-funnel&#8221; awareness).<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-12" href="#footnote-12" target="_self">12</a> Uber also serves an attractive demographic &#8212; the relatively wealthy and the relatively young. </p><p>The performance of Uber&#8217;s ad business reflects the attractiveness of the offering. In Q4&#8217;25, Uber generated &#8220;well over&#8221; $2bn of ARR from its ads business, up &#8220;over 50%&#8221; year over year. </p><p>While Uber doesn&#8217;t disclose the profitability of this segment, at least one peer (Delivery Hero, actually) has achieved a ~70% EBITDA margin in its respective ads segment (see yellow box below, from the company&#8217;s Sep-25 investor presentation). </p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!om2H!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F7a9e8ab9-b774-40ab-b1e4-633d1aad0849_3294x1753.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!om2H!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F7a9e8ab9-b774-40ab-b1e4-633d1aad0849_3294x1753.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!om2H!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F7a9e8ab9-b774-40ab-b1e4-633d1aad0849_3294x1753.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!om2H!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F7a9e8ab9-b774-40ab-b1e4-633d1aad0849_3294x1753.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!om2H!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F7a9e8ab9-b774-40ab-b1e4-633d1aad0849_3294x1753.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!om2H!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F7a9e8ab9-b774-40ab-b1e4-633d1aad0849_3294x1753.png" width="1456" height="775" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/7a9e8ab9-b774-40ab-b1e4-633d1aad0849_3294x1753.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:775,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:916923,&quot;alt&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/189172282?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F7a9e8ab9-b774-40ab-b1e4-633d1aad0849_3294x1753.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" title="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!om2H!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F7a9e8ab9-b774-40ab-b1e4-633d1aad0849_3294x1753.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!om2H!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F7a9e8ab9-b774-40ab-b1e4-633d1aad0849_3294x1753.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!om2H!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F7a9e8ab9-b774-40ab-b1e4-633d1aad0849_3294x1753.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!om2H!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F7a9e8ab9-b774-40ab-b1e4-633d1aad0849_3294x1753.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>I haven&#8217;t seen any similar disclosures from other delivery peers. </p><p>There are good reasons to believe that if Delivery Hero can generate this type of margin profile, that Uber should be able to as well. Uber has: (1) greater scale, (2) a richer ad targeting toolset (e.g. target certain dayparts, keywords, only new customers, etc.) which helps attract, importantly, enterprise-scale advertisers, and (3) more advertisers (if not now, eventually), which will result in richer auctions and higher CPCs. </p><p>If we assume the same margin profile as Delivery Hero, Uber would be generating $1.4bn of EBITDA from the segment, or ~16% of Uber&#8217;s total EBITDA. </p><p>While this business represents a little over 2% of delivery gross bookings ex Delivery Hero (the target Uber originally set a few years ago for its ad business), management recently stated that this business could, in fact, be much larger as a percentage of bookings (from Q4&#8217;25):</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;So on ads, we&#8217;re very, very pleased with the momentum that we are seeing. As you rightly pointed out, we had many years ago talked about 2% as the potential ceiling for penetration with delivery advertising. <strong>What we are seeing is that the opportunity size here is potentially much larger.</strong></em></p><p><em>And as we think through where we are on the journey with enterprises versus SMBs, <strong>SMB ad penetration is a lot higher than 2% and enterprise year-on-year growth is now outpacing SMBs by a lot more. So in a way, enterprise advertising is playing catch-up, and that means there&#8217;s going to be a lot of runway here.</strong> At the same time, our products on grocery and retail and mobility are a lot more nascent, and there&#8217;s going to be opportunity for us to grow there as well.&#8221; </em></p></blockquote><p>The fact that the segment is growing 50%+ would also suggest that there is still much room to grow (and that 2% is not the ceiling after all).</p><p>Many of Uber&#8217;s delivery peers, in fact, do well north of 2%: </p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!SYTO!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1e02541d-7cdd-4f26-a53b-c74d121efbf9_1522x1733.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!SYTO!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1e02541d-7cdd-4f26-a53b-c74d121efbf9_1522x1733.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!SYTO!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1e02541d-7cdd-4f26-a53b-c74d121efbf9_1522x1733.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!SYTO!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1e02541d-7cdd-4f26-a53b-c74d121efbf9_1522x1733.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!SYTO!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1e02541d-7cdd-4f26-a53b-c74d121efbf9_1522x1733.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!SYTO!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1e02541d-7cdd-4f26-a53b-c74d121efbf9_1522x1733.png" width="601" height="684.3804945054945" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/1e02541d-7cdd-4f26-a53b-c74d121efbf9_1522x1733.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1658,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:601,&quot;bytes&quot;:150655,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/189172282?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1e02541d-7cdd-4f26-a53b-c74d121efbf9_1522x1733.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!SYTO!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1e02541d-7cdd-4f26-a53b-c74d121efbf9_1522x1733.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!SYTO!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1e02541d-7cdd-4f26-a53b-c74d121efbf9_1522x1733.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!SYTO!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1e02541d-7cdd-4f26-a53b-c74d121efbf9_1522x1733.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!SYTO!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1e02541d-7cdd-4f26-a53b-c74d121efbf9_1522x1733.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Delivery Hero actually set a minimum long-term target of 4% (see slide above). </p><p>Further, it seems we are still relatively early in the ad monetization journey for food delivery. Here is the CEO of talabat making this point (granted this is from Nov-23, or ~2.5 years ago):</p><blockquote><p><em>Tomaso Rodriguez: &#8220;We have a lot of advertising products that you could buy on talabat if you want to grow your business on talabat. The great thing about our advertising product is that we look at ROI for the restaurant that is immediate&#8230;We have a cost per click product like Google has, right?&#8230;</em></p><p><em>So those products, we price them in a way that you make your money back immediately. Two or three times the money you make, so that&#8217;s the target we have. <strong>And for me I mean as a vendor &#8212; so if I had a restaurant with something that gives me back two or three times the money that I spend today, the same month, for me it&#8217;s a no-brainer.</strong> Because the alternative is spending that money on Instagram, right? And maybe I acquire a customer that will come to me and I will get the money back in one year or two years&#8230;</em></p><p><em>And you know the cost of a click versus the order that you get from the customer is is very low. So I would argue that doing advertising on talabat or on in general on aggregator platforms is the absolute most efficient marketing spend that a vendor, a restaurant, a grocery store or whatever could have.&#8221;</em></p><p><em>Interviewer: &#8220;So does the cost per click go up for example if there&#8217;s more demand in a specific area?&#8221; </em></p><p><em>TR: &#8220;<strong>No, not today. Today it&#8217;s, I would say, because we&#8217;re just getting started, and probably our tech is also not so evolved. And so it&#8217;s a fixed fee.</strong> It depends on the time of the day, whatever. But at the end of the day, it&#8217;s also &#8212; when Google was started, when Facebook was started &#8212; like the first ones that started doing advertising [on these platforms] built huge businesses out of it because algorithms were not so sophisticated and whatever. So I think when it comes to food delivery, we&#8217;re a bit at that stage. So it&#8217;s a great time for a vendor to invest in advertising right now.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>In other words, CPCs should continue to rise as the industry matures and auctions become more robust. This should provide a meaningful continued tailwind for Uber&#8217;s ad business.</p><p>If Uber can grow ad revenue to 4% of delivery bookings, and if the overall delivery business doubles (including DH), you&#8217;d be looking at ~$10bn of ad revenue and ~$7bn of ad EBITDA (assuming a 70% margin). That would represent ~$5bn of incremental EBITDA for a business that will generate ~$16bn of EBITDA in 2027. This seems doable over, say, the next 4-5 years.</p><p>Interestingly, the ads business increasingly doubles as a barrier to entry in food delivery: (1) you can only turn it on once you have massive scale, and (2) it allows you to run the rest of the delivery business at a very thin margin.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-13" href="#footnote-13" target="_self">13</a></p><p><em>Uber&#8217;s AV Future: Everywhere all at Once?</em></p><p>It may not appear like it today, but Uber seems on the cusp of bringing AVs to let&#8217;s say 30+ major cities across the globe in relatively quick succession. It&#8217;s an &#8220;everywhere all at once&#8221; strategy, employing various AV tech providers, various car OEMs, and various fleet operators (and potentially various fleet financiers) all &#8220;at once.&#8221;</p><p>Let&#8217;s look at the partnerships that Uber has lined up in already specified cities across the US:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!M4Na!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3c7eb3fb-17cc-43e0-887e-310177987df7_3712x2233.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!M4Na!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3c7eb3fb-17cc-43e0-887e-310177987df7_3712x2233.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!M4Na!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3c7eb3fb-17cc-43e0-887e-310177987df7_3712x2233.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!M4Na!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3c7eb3fb-17cc-43e0-887e-310177987df7_3712x2233.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!M4Na!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3c7eb3fb-17cc-43e0-887e-310177987df7_3712x2233.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!M4Na!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3c7eb3fb-17cc-43e0-887e-310177987df7_3712x2233.png" width="1456" height="876" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/3c7eb3fb-17cc-43e0-887e-310177987df7_3712x2233.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:876,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:516387,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/189172282?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3c7eb3fb-17cc-43e0-887e-310177987df7_3712x2233.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!M4Na!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3c7eb3fb-17cc-43e0-887e-310177987df7_3712x2233.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!M4Na!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3c7eb3fb-17cc-43e0-887e-310177987df7_3712x2233.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!M4Na!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3c7eb3fb-17cc-43e0-887e-310177987df7_3712x2233.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!M4Na!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3c7eb3fb-17cc-43e0-887e-310177987df7_3712x2233.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p><em>Note the charts above/below blatantly copy the formatting of <a href="https://www.thedriverlessdigest.com/p/15-charts-that-explain-the-autonomous">these</a> charts from Jackson Lester of <a href="https://avmap.io/?center=-106.2197%2C37.4332&amp;zoom=3.90">AV Map</a>.</em></p><p>We can see that Uber has partnerships announced (or live in some cases) across eight US cities. This includes three partners each for the SF Bay Area (Nuro, NVIDIA and Rivian) and Los Angeles (VW/MOIA, Zoox and NVIDIA). </p><p>Uber has even more partnerships lined up internationally:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!0zAL!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2add2c9c-8eac-4865-bf76-555895f775aa_2270x1699.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!0zAL!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2add2c9c-8eac-4865-bf76-555895f775aa_2270x1699.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!0zAL!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2add2c9c-8eac-4865-bf76-555895f775aa_2270x1699.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!0zAL!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2add2c9c-8eac-4865-bf76-555895f775aa_2270x1699.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!0zAL!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2add2c9c-8eac-4865-bf76-555895f775aa_2270x1699.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!0zAL!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2add2c9c-8eac-4865-bf76-555895f775aa_2270x1699.png" width="1456" height="1090" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/2add2c9c-8eac-4865-bf76-555895f775aa_2270x1699.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1090,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:330513,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/189172282?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2add2c9c-8eac-4865-bf76-555895f775aa_2270x1699.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!0zAL!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2add2c9c-8eac-4865-bf76-555895f775aa_2270x1699.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!0zAL!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2add2c9c-8eac-4865-bf76-555895f775aa_2270x1699.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!0zAL!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2add2c9c-8eac-4865-bf76-555895f775aa_2270x1699.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!0zAL!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2add2c9c-8eac-4865-bf76-555895f775aa_2270x1699.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Uber has another nine international cities announced (or live in some cases) with launch dates all anticipated before the end of 2026. Four of these cities have multiple AV partners lined up, and one city &#8212; Dubai &#8212; actually has three (WeRide, Apollo Go and Pony.ai).</p><p>Uber has its sights on many more cities than just these ~17 combined, however. They clearly intend to expand their Nuro partnership well beyond just the SF Bay Area and Houston, given they&#8217;ve committed to purchase 35,000 vehicles from Nuro/Lucid over the next ~5 years. Uber has committed to at least 10,000 AVs from Rivian by 2028. Further, Uber announced with NVIDIA an intention to be in &#8220;28 cities by 2028&#8221; with &#8220;full-stack&#8221; NVIDIA-powered AVs.</p><p>Below is commentary from Ali Kani, VP of Automotive at NVIDIA, from a Mar-26 <em><a href="https://youtu.be/lnNi72Md9I4?t=1327">Turing Post</a></em> podcast. He states that NVIDIA has fleets in 20+ cities today gathering data and laying the groundwork for AV introduction. Once NVIDIA&#8217;s self-driving software is ready (targeting initial rollouts in H1&#8217;27), NVIDIA anticipates going live across the remaining cities quickly thereafter.</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;<strong>We&#8217;re sending a fleet, like, everywhere right now.</strong> So what we did was we identified 20 cities which are relatively unique. So it&#8217;s technical, it&#8217;s like what are the most unique cities? And then we also included where are most of the customers going to be? Because that&#8217;s another area where it&#8217;s like, &#8216;Hey, we care about this. Don&#8217;t just think it&#8217;s the same and let&#8217;s skip that town.&#8217; Then we send a fleet of cars there to test and also get data. And then based on that &#8212; the model is very generalist. So it&#8217;s pretty good but we make sure that it&#8217;s as good everywhere. And then we&#8217;ll slowly release it as our metrics tell us that we&#8217;re ready, but <strong>it will be kind of nationwide</strong>.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>In all, Uber has laid out a target of being the largest facilitator of AV trips by 2029. From its Q4&#8217;25 &#8220;AV Spotlight&#8221; and prepared remarks:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Clc2!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4924e3f8-4857-4c51-8283-594bdc1c315b_1091x605.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Clc2!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4924e3f8-4857-4c51-8283-594bdc1c315b_1091x605.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Clc2!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4924e3f8-4857-4c51-8283-594bdc1c315b_1091x605.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Clc2!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4924e3f8-4857-4c51-8283-594bdc1c315b_1091x605.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Clc2!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4924e3f8-4857-4c51-8283-594bdc1c315b_1091x605.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Clc2!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4924e3f8-4857-4c51-8283-594bdc1c315b_1091x605.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" 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y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;By the end of 2026, we expect to be facilitating AV trips in as many as 15 cities globally, with a roughly even split of U.S. and international cities. <strong>And by 2029, we intend to be the largest facilitator of AV trips in the world.</strong> AVs will change how trips are supplied, but not how demand is aggregated. History suggests that over time as supply fragments and technology commoditizes, the platform that can bring the highest utilization to assets, and superior reliability to customers, will capture a large share of value. That is the role Uber is set up to play.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>Even if Uber &#8220;misses&#8221; this target, it should be well on its way to a significant amount of AV supply live on the platform by 2029.</p><p>Overall, I think an underrated aspect of the Uber story is that, in certain ways, Uber is well ahead of the pack in terms of AVs. Yes, Uber doesn&#8217;t have the cars and the technology yet (though this is coming). However, in the meantime, they are laying the groundwork on much of &#8220;the rest&#8221; that will be needed for AVs. And &#8220;the rest&#8221; is really important and a really significant lift.</p><p>AVs need to be maintained, cleaned, charged, parked over night/during off-peak hours, and insured. They potentially could use help being financed. AVs need to be positioned well in a city to maximize earnings. The operator needs to know when an AV is about to run out of battery, or when the air pressure in its tires are too low. AVs will need on-road support (i.e. an asset may need to be recovered in the field, etc.). Lost items will need to be managed. The AVs need to be integrated into a hybrid platform that understands when to dispatch an AV and when not to (is a pick-up/drop-off within the ODD, is a human needed to enter a gate code to a private community). In-vehicle experience needs to be managed (e.g. access to sound, temperature, rider support). </p><p>All of these tasks that once fell mostly to the driver, will need to be subsumed by other players in the ecosystem. Uber&#8217;s answer to this is (1) its <a href="https://youtu.be/uVDxmbNS2h4">Autonomous Solutions</a> offering (discussed later on), introduced in Feb-26. It&#8217;s a diverse set of capabilities that take on much of the burden of actually operating a commercial rideshare service (and that no other players can match today). (2) To handle fleet operations Uber will leverage the relationships it&#8217;s developed with just about every rideshare fleet operator in existence, from the very small to the very large. These are the same fleet operators that will be servicing (and in some cases buying) many of the AVs that will go onto the Uber marketplace. (3) Lastly Uber is prepared to step in to develop charging infrastructure and depots where its partners may not have the resources or desire. </p><p>Here is management from a Mar-26 Morgan Stanley conference, commenting on how Uber is engaged in leasing conversations for AV depots across 50 <em>(50?!)</em> different sites related to just their 2027 deployments:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;From our perspective, when we think through this deployment curve over the next few years, once we start getting conviction that the software is going to hit the mark and it&#8217;s going to get to that L4 deployment with superhuman safety, our efforts start shifting to a couple of other priorities. </em></p><p><em>The first one is securing OEM supply, right? We need to ensure that any of our partners who can deliver that kind of software have enough scale volumes coming to them, and then that volume can get deployed on Uber&#8217;s network. </em></p><p><em>And then the other thing we have to do is to ensure that we are bringing AV infrastructure on the ground. <strong>And for instance, for our 2027 deployments, we&#8217;re already scouting sites across our footprint. We already have about 50 different sites that we are beginning to get into leasing conversations, and those deployments will start once we have the software there.&#8221;</strong></em></p></blockquote><p>Of course we haven&#8217;t even mentioned the fact that Uber already has a 1P app with tons of aggregated demand. Everyone else (Waymo, Tesla) still need to get customers on their app. They need to provide customer support. They need to handle payments/fraud. They need different &#8220;products&#8221; like &#8220;reserve,&#8221; &#8220;shared routes,&#8221; XL, etc. Uber, of course, has had these things dialed in for awhile now, and these aren&#8217;t trivial things. </p><p>So while Uber may seem behind on autonomy today, I believe they&#8217;re actually well ahead in many important ways. Uber is laying the groundwork to scale AVs. They are just waiting on the tech and the cars.</p><p><em>Attractive Valuation</em></p><p>If we adjust for the impact of the Delivery Hero acquisition, Uber trades for just ~10x &#8216;27e non-GAAP EBITDA and ~12x &#8216;27e non-GAAP EBIT (burdened for SBC).</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!JWDy!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8d347fd7-83ae-46ed-876a-8100f99594b0_2640x1373.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!JWDy!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, 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/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!JWDy!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8d347fd7-83ae-46ed-876a-8100f99594b0_2640x1373.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!JWDy!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8d347fd7-83ae-46ed-876a-8100f99594b0_2640x1373.png" width="1456" height="757" 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8d347fd7-83ae-46ed-876a-8100f99594b0_2640x1373.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!JWDy!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8d347fd7-83ae-46ed-876a-8100f99594b0_2640x1373.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!JWDy!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8d347fd7-83ae-46ed-876a-8100f99594b0_2640x1373.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!JWDy!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8d347fd7-83ae-46ed-876a-8100f99594b0_2640x1373.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p><em>Others</em></p><ul><li><p><em>Delivery + Mobility Synergies.</em> Having both delivery and mobility offerings creates synergies for Uber beyond simply the Uber One membership. </p><ul><li><p>Lead Gen. The Uber app is the largest source of new users for Uber Eats &#8212; larger than Google, Instagram and Facebook, combined.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-14" href="#footnote-14" target="_self">14</a> About 30% of Eats&#8217; first time orders come from Rides.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-15" href="#footnote-15" target="_self">15</a> Only ~1 in 5 Uber MAPCs are active across both segments today, a clear opportunity for Uber (they are highly focused on pushing this north of 50%).<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-16" href="#footnote-16" target="_self">16</a> Users that are active across both businesses spend roughly 3x those that aren&#8217;t.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-17" href="#footnote-17" target="_self">17</a></p></li><li><p>Driver Recruitment. Uber Eats couriers are easier to pull into the Uber ecosystem than Uber mobility drivers (mobility drivers require background checks, car inspections, etc. while couriers do not). Once couriers are in the Uber ecosystem, however, they are a much easier &#8220;cross sell&#8221; for Uber mobility. Thus, Uber Eats is an important source of new driver recruits for Uber mobility.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-18" href="#footnote-18" target="_self">18</a> </p></li><li><p>Labor utilization. Uber should be able to keep its drivers/couriers more utilized as a result of its multiple offerings. Better utilized labor should result in lower prices, all things equal. This might be especially critical in suburban mobility. The suburbs would normally be very expensive to cover from a mobility standpoint due to a lack of density. However, because Uber drivers can stay occupied on the delivery side, it allows Uber to cover the occasional mobility ride (and do it at a reasonable price).<br><br>The same concept might apply in the AV world, where having both offerings could drive better utilization of AVs (from Q4&#8217;25):<br><br><em>&#8220;If you really think about the long, long game, <strong>one of the key elements is going to be what companies are able to utilize these cars in the troughs where they will largely not be busy. And having delivery and freight as part of our logistics ecosystem gives us an opportunity to actually use these vehicles at a structurally higher utilization than anyone else.</strong> We have the network utilization. We&#8217;ve already demonstrated that our network is driving higher utilization even in a circumstance where supply is really low. As supply increases, the utilization advantage that we have, both on the mobility-only network, but then for delivery, for freight, for last mile delivery is going to be super interesting. And it&#8217;s a structural advantage that we have that&#8217;s not available to any other player.&#8221;</em></p></li></ul></li><li><p><em>Strong Management.</em> I&#8217;m a believer in Uber management (discussed later on). They are &#8220;doing the basics&#8221; well: (1) keeping take rates low, (2) highly focused on building marketplace &#8220;supply,&#8221; (3) building an attractive Uber One membership program, and (4) squeezing more and more efficiency/profitability out of the marketplace. I think they are doing satisfactory work re capital allocation as well. </p></li><li><p><em>Hybrid AV/Human &#8220;Workforce.&#8221; </em>Of course Uber has something else that Waymo, Tesla, and Amazon don&#8217;t &#8212; human drivers/couriers. This, for a period of time, will allow Uber to both meet peak demand (by flexing its &#8220;supply&#8221; base up with human drivers) while also keeping AVs maximally utilized (they can be reserved for &#8220;baseload&#8221; supply). If your platform is AV-only, like Waymo&#8217;s, you will have to make a trade-off in one direction or another (better coverage vs. higher utilization).</p></li></ul><div><hr></div><h2>Investment Risks</h2><p><em>Waymo</em></p><p>Waymo is doing just fine. It&#8217;s the only group in the US with a real commercial robotaxi service. They are live in ~15 cities, with another 15+ lined up for near-term expansion. In the markets in which Waymo has launched 1P, it&#8217;s clearly taking share. It&#8217;s fresh off raising $16bn at a $126bn valuation from a laundry list of top investors including Sequoia, Dragoneer, a16z, Silver Lake, Kleiner Perkins, etc. They just launched the Ojai vehicle, their first vehicle purpose-built for autonomy (i.e. not a full retrofit). </p><p>As we are seeing with Waymo, when you remove the driver from the car, the market opens up to additional players. Waymo doesn&#8217;t need to recruit drivers to a platform with no demand on it (a money incinerating proposition), because they can just seed the platform with many thousands of robotaxis &#8212; no human drivers necessary.</p><p>And users generally love the Waymo &#8220;product.&#8221; It&#8217;s safer than a human driver. Most riders prefer to be alone in a car. The cars are brand new and clean, unlike many Ubers. It&#8217;s also a futuristic experience. While ETAs are generally higher, coverage is spottier and pricing is higher, Waymo has taken material share relatively quickly. Here is a look at SF rideshare market share since Waymo&#8217;s launch in Aug-23 through Apr-25:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!5JcX!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F89ed70c3-0942-4310-97d5-25362c490bc7_818x607.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!5JcX!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F89ed70c3-0942-4310-97d5-25362c490bc7_818x607.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!5JcX!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F89ed70c3-0942-4310-97d5-25362c490bc7_818x607.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!5JcX!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F89ed70c3-0942-4310-97d5-25362c490bc7_818x607.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!5JcX!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F89ed70c3-0942-4310-97d5-25362c490bc7_818x607.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!5JcX!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F89ed70c3-0942-4310-97d5-25362c490bc7_818x607.png" width="818" height="607" 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F89ed70c3-0942-4310-97d5-25362c490bc7_818x607.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!5JcX!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F89ed70c3-0942-4310-97d5-25362c490bc7_818x607.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!5JcX!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F89ed70c3-0942-4310-97d5-25362c490bc7_818x607.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!5JcX!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F89ed70c3-0942-4310-97d5-25362c490bc7_818x607.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Here is additional market share data across a broader set of Waymo markets. Over time Waymo has climbed into the 15-20% range, for now, in Phoenix, SF and LA (its most mature markets).</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Dr1N!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F7765cd1e-ab3b-4096-84f8-2f6a492d376b_880x510.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Dr1N!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F7765cd1e-ab3b-4096-84f8-2f6a492d376b_880x510.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Dr1N!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F7765cd1e-ab3b-4096-84f8-2f6a492d376b_880x510.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Dr1N!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F7765cd1e-ab3b-4096-84f8-2f6a492d376b_880x510.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Dr1N!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F7765cd1e-ab3b-4096-84f8-2f6a492d376b_880x510.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Dr1N!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F7765cd1e-ab3b-4096-84f8-2f6a492d376b_880x510.png" width="880" height="510" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/7765cd1e-ab3b-4096-84f8-2f6a492d376b_880x510.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:510,&quot;width&quot;:880,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:177585,&quot;alt&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/189172282?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F7765cd1e-ab3b-4096-84f8-2f6a492d376b_880x510.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" title="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Dr1N!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F7765cd1e-ab3b-4096-84f8-2f6a492d376b_880x510.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Dr1N!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F7765cd1e-ab3b-4096-84f8-2f6a492d376b_880x510.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Dr1N!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F7765cd1e-ab3b-4096-84f8-2f6a492d376b_880x510.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Dr1N!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F7765cd1e-ab3b-4096-84f8-2f6a492d376b_880x510.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>And this is with Waymo choosing to be &#8220;constrained&#8221; on the supply-side. They are not flooding any given market with AVs, but rather seem to be aiming for more &#8220;baseload&#8221; capacity. Peak-to-trough demand over the course of a day is ~4x, so if Waymo were to put enough AVs in a market to handle peak demand, they&#8217;d be stuck with many of their cars sitting idle during troughs.</p><p>What is worrisome about Waymo for Uber:</p><ul><li><p>Leading AV Tech. Waymo is the undisputed leader in AV tech. They have real, commercial, driverless deployments all across the country. Where I live &#8212; the SF Bay Area &#8212; they are ubiquitous (even in the suburbs). With more miles comes more data and more edge cases &#8220;solved.&#8221; Even when new AV offerings come into the fold, for those especially concerned with safety, the Waymo &#8220;Driver&#8221; will likely continue to be the safest option for at least the next few years. It&#8217;s hard to say exactly how far Waymo is ahead of the pack, and when other providers will have robust enough solutions to safely operate large, flexible ODDs.</p></li><li><p>Physical World Build-Out. First out of the gate with robotaxis, Waymo is securing depots/charging infrastructure as well as partnering with leading fleet operators all across the US (and soon internationally). While Uber can and will do the same, it&#8217;s got to be a little depressing to see Waymo settling in like this for the long haul. Within the next couple years, Waymo will likely have infra up and running across 30+ major cities.</p></li><li><p>Certain Cost Advantages. I&#8217;d assume Waymo can train its models at below market rates on Google hardware (Waymo&#8217;s in-car chips are NVIDIA GPUs, for now). In its 1P markets where Waymo goes direct to consumer, Waymo pays no &#8220;Uber tax.&#8221; Also Waymo has its Waymo &#8220;Driver,&#8221; of course. Thus, it does not have to pay a AV software &#8220;licensing fee&#8221; (vs. Uber which has to pay this indirectly, like in the case of its Nuro/Lucid robotaxis). These are cost advantages for Waymo. <br><br>However, of course Waymo also needs to invest considerable sums to develop its &#8220;Driver&#8221; as well as its &#8220;1P&#8221; service. Thus these cost advantages only really kick in at massive scale. Further, if we take NVIDIA&#8217;s Alpamayo-powered vehicles (where the software is open sourced), Uber can also enjoy a cut-rate fee for AV software. </p></li><li><p>Google-Backed. Waymo is backed by Google, a monster of a company with a market cap of ~$4tn. Google can afford to be loss-making in its AV/rideshare efforts longer than just about anyone.</p></li></ul><p>What is not so worrisome about Waymo for Uber:</p><ul><li><p>Structural ETA Issues. Waymo can&#8217;t really build enough AVs to handle peak traffic hours &#8212; for now. Peak-to-trough is ~4x over the course of a day (and the size of a peak also varies over the course of a year in any given market). If Waymo had enough cars to handle peaks, then they&#8217;d have a lot of cars sitting idle during troughs. You can see them running into this issue already today. Their wait times in California have flatlined at around 18 minutes, according to the <a href="https://www.thedriverlessdigest.com/p/waymos-california-growth-may-be-slowing">Driverless Digest</a>:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!rG3G!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6a984041-5e35-4246-a5e6-1fe0c9fdb9ae_683x386.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!rG3G!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6a984041-5e35-4246-a5e6-1fe0c9fdb9ae_683x386.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!rG3G!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6a984041-5e35-4246-a5e6-1fe0c9fdb9ae_683x386.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!rG3G!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6a984041-5e35-4246-a5e6-1fe0c9fdb9ae_683x386.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!rG3G!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6a984041-5e35-4246-a5e6-1fe0c9fdb9ae_683x386.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!rG3G!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6a984041-5e35-4246-a5e6-1fe0c9fdb9ae_683x386.png" width="683" height="386" 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6a984041-5e35-4246-a5e6-1fe0c9fdb9ae_683x386.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!rG3G!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6a984041-5e35-4246-a5e6-1fe0c9fdb9ae_683x386.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Wait times for Waymo are not nearly this bad in other geos, it should be noted. However, it seems it will likely continue to be challenging for Waymo to offer low ETAs during peak hours. Many will not want to have to bother with switching between apps (Uber for peak hours, Waymo for off-peak), especially when Uber eventually has sufficient AV supply (and where presumably rates are comparable). </p></li><li><p>AV Alternatives Are Coming. As alluded to in the intro, a number of other AV providers are going to launch offerings in the coming years. Waymo being the sole provider of self-driving likely isn&#8217;t going to last much longer. More on this later.</p></li><li><p>No Membership / Lock-In. Waymo doesn&#8217;t have a &#8220;comprehensive&#8221; membership program like Uber One. For many, it will give Uber the edge, especially once Uber has sufficient AV supply. </p></li><li><p>Still Limited Geo Coverage. When you leave your home city, or home country, Waymo might not have you covered. This will be the case for awhile. While not necessarily the end of the world, this will be a headwind for a membership product, a business product, etc. It will also make it a little harder to build stickiness with some users, when these users can&#8217;t just open one app all the time, no matter what. Around <a href="https://youtu.be/bUdOAGaPmUU?t=198">40%</a> of US-based Uber mobility users took rides outside their home cities in 2025 (and in total, ~1.5bn trips were taken outside of home cities, or ~10% of total trips).</p></li><li><p>Lack of &#8220;Products.&#8221; Waymo doesn&#8217;t yet do shared routes, &#8220;wait &amp; save,&#8221; &#8220;reserve,&#8221; elite, XXL, pets, car seat, etc. They don&#8217;t have &#8220;Waymo for business.&#8221; Uber has you covered no matter what you need. </p></li><li><p>Coverage of Suburbs. Uber management has stated a couple times that they believe that AVs will have a difficult time serving the suburbs for some time (though I haven&#8217;t seen them explain exactly why).<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-19" href="#footnote-19" target="_self">19</a> My assumption is simply that utilization will be that much lower, and deadheading trips that much longer on average. Uber doesn&#8217;t have to absorb the costs of idle drivers (they only pay per trip). However, Uber does need to compensate drivers for this lack of utilization with, I assume, higher rates, which provides air cover for Waymo to also charge more. It could be the case that Uber drivers being able to toggle between driver/courier mode in the suburbs is a big advantage when it comes to offering mobility in the suburbs. Uber can keep its couriers utilized making deliveries in the suburbs, and when the occasional ride is requested, Uber will have the coverage (and can provide the ride at a low enough cost to make it interesting for the rider). I&#8217;ve never seen Uber confirm this advantage, however &#8212; if you&#8217;ve seen them do so, please let me know in the comments.</p></li><li><p>Fleet Financing. Waymo owns all of its own fleet today. It may have a harder time bringing in financial partners to own cars (and thereby offload some of its capital intensity). Partners want high returns and low risk. If you have a less liquid marketplace (i.e. lower revenue generation per vehicle), and one that is less established (and therefore more risky), it may prove to be harder to lure in financial partners. There&#8217;s no guarantee Uber won&#8217;t have similar issues, but Uber seems much better positioned on this front. </p></li></ul><p>I do wonder what differentiation Waymo brings in a world where Uber has sufficient AV supply. Waymo&#8217;s advantage right now is its lack of drivers, cleaner/newer cars, and a futuristic experience, from what I can tell. Do these not all go away in a world where Uber has plenty of AV supply, say by 2028/2029 (and the user can set an AV preference)? Further, it seems reasonable to assume that Uber should still have lower costs, better coverage and lower wait times in all the intervening years between now and then. If I&#8217;m a resident of SF (or LA, Las Vegas, etc.) in 2027, when Uber has 3+ AV offerings on its platform, I&#8217;m not sure why I&#8217;m using Waymo over Uber (other than Waymo perhaps subsidizing fares).</p><p>Maybe Waymo sees a path to being the low cost operator over time. Maybe they are willing to lose money (and subsidize rides) over many, many years in order to build the type of scale that could achieve this. The Google backing makes this perhaps a viable option. </p><p>Unfortunately, it&#8217;s hard to know at this point how Uber&#8217;s competition with Waymo evolves. Waymo could keep investing with the intention of building a rideshare network that rivals Uber in its geographic coverage and density. Waymo could also decide that, if it&#8217;s not gaining enough ground quickly enough, that it is better off simply licensing the Waymo Driver to car OEMs (as well as licensing &#8220;driver&#8221; offerings for other applications, like delivery). </p><p><em>Tesla</em></p><p>Tesla poses a risk that, in some ways, is even scarier than Waymo.</p><p>Tesla at one point was staking much of the future of the company (a ~$1.5tn company by market cap) on self-driving and the Cybercab. It has been on the cusp of autonomy for years, seemingly. Tesla is dangling the idea of a $30k Cybercab, which would undercut Uber (and Waymo) significantly on price (and of which Tesla could manufacture 2mm annually, they claim). Tesla has a huge number of vehicles on the roads today (~9mm) that they claim could be instantly flipped into Tesla&#8217;s Robotaxi fleet. </p><p>Furthermore, Tesla has a clear desire to go 1P. It has also signaled a likely aggressive approach to pricing, charging far less than Uber and Waymo in its Robotaxi pilots in SF and Austin. Tesla claims to have driven 1.7mm paid Robotaxi miles (across SF and Austin) as of Q1&#8217;26:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!rFWc!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2c75ae2f-6841-4e5d-965b-3239a485c466_752x372.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!rFWc!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2c75ae2f-6841-4e5d-965b-3239a485c466_752x372.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!rFWc!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2c75ae2f-6841-4e5d-965b-3239a485c466_752x372.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!rFWc!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2c75ae2f-6841-4e5d-965b-3239a485c466_752x372.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!rFWc!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2c75ae2f-6841-4e5d-965b-3239a485c466_752x372.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!rFWc!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2c75ae2f-6841-4e5d-965b-3239a485c466_752x372.png" width="752" height="372" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/2c75ae2f-6841-4e5d-965b-3239a485c466_752x372.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:372,&quot;width&quot;:752,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:41130,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/189172282?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2c75ae2f-6841-4e5d-965b-3239a485c466_752x372.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!rFWc!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2c75ae2f-6841-4e5d-965b-3239a485c466_752x372.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!rFWc!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2c75ae2f-6841-4e5d-965b-3239a485c466_752x372.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!rFWc!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2c75ae2f-6841-4e5d-965b-3239a485c466_752x372.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!rFWc!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2c75ae2f-6841-4e5d-965b-3239a485c466_752x372.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>In Apr-26, Tesla announced the expansion of its Robotaxi pilot program into Dallas and Houston. In Jul-26, they added the Miami market (giving Tesla 5 markets in total).</p><p>Perhaps there is a world where Tesla can &#8220;flip a switch&#8221; on its Robotaxi initiative more broadly once the tech is ready. In such a world, Uber would suddenly have to deal with aggressive competition from a very large and fully integrated car OEM with structural pricing advantages.</p><p>What is worrisome about Tesla for Uber:</p><ul><li><p>Cost Advantages. Tesla seems to have the lowest cost hardware &#8220;bill of materials&#8221; in the US for robotaxis. It&#8217;s Cybercab is purpose built for autonomy. It has no steering wheel, pedals, or rearview mirrors. It&#8217;s &#8220;sensor suite&#8221; is the lowest cost in the industry (no LiDAR, no radar, just eight cameras). It employs custom-built Tesla silicon for its in-car compute needs. It&#8217;s manufactured in a factory &#8212; Giga Texas &#8212; that seems truly innovative. <br><br>However, Tesla is far from the most scaled car OEM. It has respectable sales in the US with around the #9th and #17th best selling cars (and if looking just at EVs, the top two models by far).</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!743u!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fdbb18ae3-e354-4b5f-8f4e-fbfc57eedd45_1985x2385.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!743u!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fdbb18ae3-e354-4b5f-8f4e-fbfc57eedd45_1985x2385.png 424w, 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fdbb18ae3-e354-4b5f-8f4e-fbfc57eedd45_1985x2385.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!743u!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fdbb18ae3-e354-4b5f-8f4e-fbfc57eedd45_1985x2385.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>But this is not exactly a dominant position. Further Tesla vehicle deliveries actually fell by 9% YoY in 2025.<br><br>In terms of the top selling car brands in the world by units, Tesla does not rank in the top 15:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!gWxj!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F68c2591c-6bb0-4082-863c-92879a81b3cc_565x698.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!gWxj!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F68c2591c-6bb0-4082-863c-92879a81b3cc_565x698.png 424w, 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F68c2591c-6bb0-4082-863c-92879a81b3cc_565x698.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!gWxj!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F68c2591c-6bb0-4082-863c-92879a81b3cc_565x698.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" 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we look out a few years, Toyota and BYD seem like they will be the clear leaders (BYD grew units sold by 31% in H1&#8217;25). It doesn&#8217;t strike me like there&#8217;s a path for Tesla to build cars at a materially lower cost than these top players longer term, given the scale differential (even considering some of the innovation Tesla is bringing).<br><br>In fact, Tesla is already, by far, not the low cost EV producer globally &#8212; that crown belongs to the Chinese manufacturers, most notably BYD and Geely. BYD&#8217;s latest Seagull EV comes equipped with LiDAR and a &#8220;mid-tier&#8221; smart driving system (aka Level 2+/2++) for just <a href="https://electrek.co/2026/05/12/byd-launches-seagull-ev-with-lidar-for-13000-first-in-its-class/">~$13,400</a>. Baidu&#8217;s RT6 Robotaxi (manufactured by JMC) was introduced way back in May-24 at a <a href="https://www.theverge.com/2024/11/22/24303299/baidu-apollo-go-rt6-robotaxi-unit-economics-waymo">sub $30k</a> price tag. While Chinese cars are effectively locked out of the US market (owing to massive ~100% tariffs), they are sold (and taking share) in most other markets (including <a href="https://www.ft.com/content/5529010d-a1c0-41f6-b7eb-fd916ffcc5ae?syn-25a6b1a6=1">Europe</a>, Latin America and SE Asia). Further, while Chinese vehicles aren&#8217;t sold in the US, Waymo&#8217;s Ojai vehicle, which it recently introduced in the US, is built on a Chinese vehicle platform manufactured by Geely. Thus, as a robotaxi operator, Uber might still have a chance at using Chinese-built AVs in the US.<br><br>Here is Uber management from a Mar-26 Morgan Stanley conference on Uber&#8217;s partnerships with Chinese AV providers in international markets<br><br><em>&#8221;So what we&#8217;re seeing in those international markets right now, because we have 3 distinct partners who are already capable of deploying AVs on our network, which is Baidu, WeRide and Pony, we are beginning to see the scenarios where you start seeing a variety of supply coming. So in Abu Dhabi, for instance, we already have WeRide with a driver-out solution. In Dubai, we&#8217;ll likely have players like both WeRide and Baidu going on our network and bringing their services to the market. And in that kind of a world, you don&#8217;t have a lot of conflict where your partners may be thinking about, &#8216;Should I go 1P? Should I go 3P?&#8217; They&#8217;re trying to get to speed to market and the fastest way to get that kind of an outcome is to work with Uber and also work through all of these solutions we bring, both in terms of our fleet partnerships as well as the Uber Autonomous Solutions kind of stack that you just saw the video right before our chat. We are beginning to see that kind of a theme play out there.</em></p><p><em><br><strong>From a cost standpoint, the Chinese partners we&#8217;re working with are at a price point for their hardware and software, which is better than anything we are seeing anywhere. So they will certainly have an advantage there.</strong> And the fact that they don&#8217;t have philosophical debates about whether they want to do 1P versus 3P puts them in a place where they&#8217;re maximizing revenues against the lowest cost structure, and that just gives them a leg up in how quickly they can ramp up.&#8221;<br><br></em>So while Tesla has a leg-up in the US on hardware costs, it doesn&#8217;t seem insurmountable over the fullness of time. Furthermore, in virtually all non-US markets, Tesla is far from the lowest cost producer.<br></p></li><li><p>&#8220;Price War&#8221; Strategy Seems Likely? Tesla <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atLjDlWZDDw">will probably</a> be acquired by SpaceX at some point, giving it more cash and a longer runway to be loss-making. It will probably have a real Robotaxi service at some point. And at that point, Tesla will probably try some sort of &#8220;scorched earth&#8221; pricing (in at least some markets for at least some period of time).</p></li><li><p>Data Advantage. Tesla has a ton of real-world driving data owing to their large global fleet of ~9mm vehicles operating all over the world. Surely this is a huge advantage for Tesla? Well, according to Ali Kani, VP of Automotive at NVIDIA, data is not a problem for them. Here is commentary from a Mar-26 <em><a href="https://youtu.be/lnNi72Md9I4?t=440">Turing Post</a></em> podcast:<br><br><em>Interviewer: &#8220;Do you think you&#8217;re close to the amount of data Tesla has for self-driving?&#8221;</em></p><p><em>AK: &#8220;So I think since they&#8217;ve been doing this longer than us, they have more real data than us. But we supplement the real data that we&#8217;ve gotten with synthetic data. <strong>Right now, for where we are, I don&#8217;t think we feel that data is our problem. We just generate compute [and it] becomes data, right? So we synthetically generate what we&#8217;re missing.</strong> But the other thing is we&#8217;re now in more and more cars. You can buy this car and we can get data [from it]. <strong>Eventually, we will be in every Mercedes-Benz car, every Jaguar Land Rover car. And so, you know, I think we&#8217;ll have hundreds of millions of hours of data.</strong> And I think that&#8217;s very helpful for us on our path to level four. This car, for level two, I think we&#8217;re fine. But I think getting incremental data and having the compute to train and test those models together, I think what we feel good about our ability to get this to level four. I think we announced we&#8217;re going to start doing trials next year.&#8221;</em><br><br>Uber, to its credit, is helping to blow up any remaining chances of a data moat through its AV Labs initiative. Here is Uber CFO Balaji Krishnamurthy in May-26 with something of a status update on the initiative. By the end of 2026, Uber&#8217;s AV Labs fleet will be generating 2mm miles worth of data every month (for reference, AV operators have needed at least ~10mm miles of data in total to reach their first public driverless launch):</p><div class="twitter-embed" data-attrs="{&quot;url&quot;:&quot;https://x.com/_balaji_km/status/2057304735468957723&quot;,&quot;full_text&quot;:&quot;We have been busy bringing our AV Labs fleet to life. Over the coming months, many hundreds of cars fitted with a suite of sensors (cameras, lidars and radars) will be operating on Uber&#8217;s network. Importantly, these cars will be generating revenues and completing regular Uber&quot;,&quot;username&quot;:&quot;_balaji_km&quot;,&quot;name&quot;:&quot;Balaji Krishnamurthy&quot;,&quot;profile_image_url&quot;:&quot;https://pbs.substack.com/profile_images/1886606940005888000/B2VaQKeU_normal.jpg&quot;,&quot;date&quot;:&quot;2026-05-21T03:37:26.000Z&quot;,&quot;photos&quot;:[{&quot;img_url&quot;:&quot;https://pbs.substack.com/media/HI0DbbSbIAED_vm.jpg&quot;,&quot;link_url&quot;:&quot;https://t.co/INqFq08h75&quot;},{&quot;img_url&quot;:&quot;https://pbs.substack.com/media/HI0DbanacAAMzoD.jpg&quot;,&quot;link_url&quot;:&quot;https://t.co/INqFq08h75&quot;},{&quot;img_url&quot;:&quot;https://pbs.substack.com/media/HI0DbamagAAVIvd.jpg&quot;,&quot;link_url&quot;:&quot;https://t.co/INqFq08h75&quot;},{&quot;img_url&quot;:&quot;https://pbs.substack.com/media/HI0Du38awAAVakf.jpg&quot;,&quot;link_url&quot;:&quot;https://t.co/INqFq08h75&quot;}],&quot;quoted_tweet&quot;:{&quot;full_text&quot;:&quot;Excited to share the launch of AV Labs at @Uber, a new technical team focused on accelerating the autonomy ecosystem. With advances in AI and end-to-end modeling, autonomy is now a real-world data and learning problem. Uber&#8217;s global scale provides a powerful foundation for this&quot;,&quot;username&quot;:&quot;praveenTweets&quot;,&quot;name&quot;:&quot;Praveen Neppalli&quot;,&quot;profile_image_url&quot;:&quot;https://pbs.substack.com/profile_images/1924449199560785920/L1WozzNa_normal.jpg&quot;},&quot;reply_count&quot;:7,&quot;retweet_count&quot;:14,&quot;like_count&quot;:112,&quot;impression_count&quot;:32074,&quot;expanded_url&quot;:null,&quot;video_url&quot;:null,&quot;video_preview_media_key&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true}" data-component-name="Twitter2ToDOM"></div></li></ul><p>What is not worrisome about Tesla for Uber:</p><ul><li><p>Fading AV Tech Leadership. Tesla is falling back into the pack on AV tech. Below is an account of one of Tesla&#8217;s first Robotaxi rides in Dallas from Apr-26 (it was also written up by <a href="https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-robotaxi-passenger-it-tried-to-pull-over-on-highway-2026-4">Business Insider</a>):</p><div class="twitter-embed" data-attrs="{&quot;url&quot;:&quot;https://x.com/TexasTSLA/status/2045678141146890365?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E2045678141146890365%7Ctwgr%5Ef131529408e799fafb38ea41f6a2b24b02d89437%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&amp;ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.businessinsider.com%2Ftesla-robotaxi-passenger-it-tried-to-pull-over-on-highway-2026-4&quot;,&quot;full_text&quot;:&quot;Welcome to Dallas bud &#128517;&#128517;&#129315;\n\nDear <span class=\&quot;tweet-fake-link\&quot;>@Tesla</span> FSD users have said multiple times nav and map data is &#129364;  and needs to be improved \n\n<span class=\&quot;tweet-fake-link\&quot;>@robotaxi</span>  misses its exit!\n\nROBOTAXI DRIVES ON THE HIGHWAY and freaks out!!\n\nTHEN TRIES TO PULL OVER AS TRAFFIC IS FLYING BY 80-90mph!!! \n\nRider &quot;,&quot;username&quot;:&quot;TexasTSLA&quot;,&quot;name&quot;:&quot;TexasTSLA&quot;,&quot;profile_image_url&quot;:&quot;https://pbs.substack.com/profile_images/1971255772395839489/jbwlxmLF_normal.jpg&quot;,&quot;date&quot;:&quot;2026-04-19T01:37:30.000Z&quot;,&quot;photos&quot;:[{&quot;img_url&quot;:&quot;https://substackcdn.com/image/upload/w_1028,c_limit,q_auto:best/l_twitter_play_button_rvaygk,w_88/hlgatdcmpyvjuxmeyowp&quot;,&quot;link_url&quot;:&quot;https://t.co/MNBTlarMlP&quot;}],&quot;quoted_tweet&quot;:{},&quot;reply_count&quot;:257,&quot;retweet_count&quot;:177,&quot;like_count&quot;:2217,&quot;impression_count&quot;:592260,&quot;expanded_url&quot;:null,&quot;video_url&quot;:&quot;https://video.twimg.com/amplify_video/2045677583191187456/vid/avc1/720x1280/evWEBiIyBx5vQfeD.mp4&quot;,&quot;video_preview_media_key&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true}" data-component-name="Twitter2ToDOM"></div><p>The Robotaxi (1) misses its exit, (2) gets on the highway (surely not in its ODD), (3) slows down to 20 MPH <em>on the highway</em> while trying to pull over, (4) rider support attempts to call rider but can&#8217;t get through, (5) speeds back up, presumably driven by rider support (unclear), (6) takes the passenger to the wrong destination, (7) gets stuck circling a random hotel until rider support again takes over, (8) has a screen malfunction, telling the rider to &#8220;exit safely&#8221; as the car <em>is driving 40 MPH</em>, and finally, (9) won&#8217;t turn right at a red light, causing rage honking from the car behind it. All of this happened over the course of just one ride! Does this seem like an offering that is ready for primetime? <br><br>Reported incident data tells a similar story, which I detail later on. In all, Tesla seems a couple years behind Waymo at this point. They seem behind the Chinese players. They seem in danger of falling behind Nuro. And I think it&#8217;s probably only a matter of time before Tesla falls behind NVIDIA.<br></p></li><li><p>Camera-Only Sensor Suite. Tesla is the only credible self-driving company of which I&#8217;m aware that uses a camera-only sensor suite. Everyone else uses a combination of cameras, radar and LiDAR (which should probably tell you something). Elon&#8217;s thinking seems to be that humans only have eyes and can drive, so surely computers equipped with only &#8220;eyes&#8221; (i.e. cameras) should be able to drive the same or better. <br><br>While most agree that a camera-only approach should eventually work, there are two issues with this. One is that we don&#8217;t know when it will work. A camera-only approach puts a lot more burden on the self-driving software/algorithms &#8212; this may take much longer to sort out. And two, even if the car is eventually able to drive as well as a good human driver, are we not trying for &#8220;superhuman&#8221; safety? Why would I want to ride in a car that could potentially be much more dangerous than one equipped with LiDAR and radar? Elon is betting that most people won&#8217;t care, but he may be miscalculating. I don&#8217;t think I&#8217;d make Tesla my robotaxi of choice, even if it were a little cheaper, if say there was an order of magnitude greater chance of an accident vs. a Waymo-powered or an NVIDIA-powered robotaxi. <br></p></li><li><p>Can Tesla be Great at Operations? It&#8217;s hard, if not impossible, for companies to be great at many things at once. Tesla is a great technology and manufacturing company. They have shown less skill, I&#8217;d argue, in things like service and operations. For Tesla to operate a robotaxi fleet all over the world while operating a car OEM and building world-class self-driving tech, you&#8217;re asking a lot. This is not to mention that Tesla is building robots, installing solar panels on roofs, building its own a fab&#8230; One company can only do so much, right? Uber has chosen to be excellent at running its marketplace, aggregating supply/demand, and increasingly operating a fleet of mobility/delivery AVs. This seems tough enough.</p></li><li><p>Same 1P Issues as Waymo. If Tesla does try to go 1P, it will have all the same issues that Waymo will have. The same structural ETA issues. The same geographic coverage issues. The same suburbs issue. The same lack of products. The same lack of membership offerings. Etc.</p></li><li><p>Who&#8217;s Going to Own the Cars? Same issue as above for Waymo. Someone needs to own and finance these cars. Uber&#8217;s plan is to eventually bring in 3P owners and financing providers. But for a group like Tesla, it&#8217;s going to be harder to line up these parties given the uncertainty around Tesla&#8217;s 1P network. If Tesla were forced to own its own fleet, its unclear if they&#8217;ll have the resources to pull that off.</p></li></ul><p>If it&#8217;s hard to see how things play out with Waymo, it&#8217;s even harder with Tesla.</p><p>I could see Tesla launching a more robust Robotaxi effort over the next couple years and making life difficult for Uber in many geos. I could also see Tesla&#8217;s self-driving efforts lagging for many years before the company eventually pulls the plug on any type of 1P effort. I wouldn&#8217;t want to have to bet on the latter scenario, however.</p><p><em>Amazon/Zoox</em></p><p>Perhaps normally, an industry with 3 massive contenders might deter other players from entering. However, that&#8217;s not going to be the case with Amazon/Zoox. </p><p>What is worrisome about Amazon/Zoox for Uber:</p><ul><li><p>Also Massive. Amazon, like Google and Tesla, is also enormous. They are the company that invented &#8220;your margin is my opportunity.&#8221; It&#8217;s in their DNA to invest deeply for very extended periods in large markets &#8212; that&#8217;s what they do. </p></li><li><p>Self-Driving Tech is Existential. Amazon has every reason to develop self-driving tech. Even if Amazon completely fails with robotaxis, it still needs it for its retail business. There is no future world where Amazon doesn&#8217;t have its own self-driving technology. So even though Zoox is a bit behind today, at some point they will cross the finish line.</p></li><li><p>Huge Membership Base. Everyone reading this post likely has a Prime membership. Amazon has ~5x more prime members (~260mm) than Uber has Uber One members (~50mm). Amazon thus has a powerful distribution wedge that Tesla and Waymo do not.</p></li><li><p>1P Desires. Amazon seems to strongly desire a 1P offering. Yes, Zoox has formed partnerships with Uber. In Las Vegas starting this summer and in LA by mid-2027, Zoox vehicles will be available on the Uber app. However, Zoox will still have its own app in these markets. Further, Zoox is not partnered with Uber in SF, Zoox&#8217;s most mature market. Zoox is also coming soon to Austin and Miami, and no partnerships with Uber have been announced there.<br><br>Here is CEO Aicha Evans from a Oct-24 <em>TechSurge</em> podcast on the importance of owning the customer relationship:<br><br><em>&#8220;It takes a lot of capital to deploy this. You, I remember, taught me a very important lesson which is &#8216;access to the customer.&#8217; <strong>Thou who talks to the customer, builds the business, right?</strong> And I think what you will see in the future is the conundrum of partnering with Uber or not. <strong>At the end of the day, if we&#8217;re going to spend billions of dollars building this hard technology with a fairly low barrier of entry to get to the customer ourselves, why should we give that up? </strong>Unless it makes sense to partner and I think those questions are still open.&#8221;<br><br></em>While Zoox may have to partner with Uber in more markets in order to drive demand, it seems they would do so only begrudgingly. So while the two are partners today, I would not characterize their partnership as &#8220;stable.&#8221; </p></li><li><p>On-Demand Delivery Encroachment. Amazon is more and more a direct competitor of Uber Eats. Amazon is apparently crushing it in groceries.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-20" href="#footnote-20" target="_self">20</a> Free same-day delivery is increasingly commonplace. Nobody seems better positioned than Amazon to vie for Uber&#8217;s turf as the best combined mobility + delivery service (unified by a membership offering).</p></li></ul><p>What is not worrisome about Amazon/Zoox for Uber:</p><ul><li><p>Trailing AV tech. I think it&#8217;s fair to say Zoox is trailing in AV tech today. However, it seems likely Zoox will get to L4 over the next few years.</p></li><li><p>Same 1P Issues as Waymo. If Zoox does try to go 1P, it will have many of the same issues that Waymo/Tesla will have. The same structural ETA issues. The same geographic coverage issues. The same suburbs issue. The same lack of products. Etc. </p></li></ul><p><em>Will AVs Stunt Uber&#8217;s Growth over the Next Few Years?</em></p><p>AVs will expand the overall rideshare TAM over time. However, could there be a scenario where AVs take share from human rideshare faster than the overall rideshare market expands? Say if prices don&#8217;t fall quickly enough? Such a result could spell rough times for Uber shareholders.</p><p>The first set of defense Uber has is that most of its business (I estimate ~90% of EBITDA) is not exposed to AV risk over the next few years. </p><p>About 60% of EBITDA today comes from the mobility business (this should fall as the advertising business continues to ramp, but let&#8217;s ignore that for now). Of mobility bookings, ~40% is generated within the US<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-21" href="#footnote-21" target="_self">21</a> (but let&#8217;s assume 60% of profits come from the US &#8212; a geo like India, for example, is still lossmaking). And of US mobility profits, we know ~75% comes from outside the top 20 cities.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-22" href="#footnote-22" target="_self">22</a></p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!MnM4!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd006f67b-1d8c-4688-a0d5-91a2caace7a4_1144x642.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!MnM4!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd006f67b-1d8c-4688-a0d5-91a2caace7a4_1144x642.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!MnM4!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd006f67b-1d8c-4688-a0d5-91a2caace7a4_1144x642.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!MnM4!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd006f67b-1d8c-4688-a0d5-91a2caace7a4_1144x642.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!MnM4!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd006f67b-1d8c-4688-a0d5-91a2caace7a4_1144x642.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!MnM4!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd006f67b-1d8c-4688-a0d5-91a2caace7a4_1144x642.png" width="1144" height="642" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/d006f67b-1d8c-4688-a0d5-91a2caace7a4_1144x642.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:642,&quot;width&quot;:1144,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:1094317,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/189172282?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd006f67b-1d8c-4688-a0d5-91a2caace7a4_1144x642.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!MnM4!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd006f67b-1d8c-4688-a0d5-91a2caace7a4_1144x642.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!MnM4!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd006f67b-1d8c-4688-a0d5-91a2caace7a4_1144x642.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!MnM4!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd006f67b-1d8c-4688-a0d5-91a2caace7a4_1144x642.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!MnM4!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd006f67b-1d8c-4688-a0d5-91a2caace7a4_1144x642.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Thus, if over the next few years we assume AVs won&#8217;t be able to reach the suburbs, we are talking about only ~9% of profits (60% x 60% x 25%) even being threatened by Waymo/Tesla &#8212; a pretty small piece of Uber&#8217;s business (and I believe this ~9% will shrink somewhat over the next couple years as the ad biz grows and as Uber further penetrates the suburbs). If we look at this on a revenue or bookings basis, it is even less (closer to ~6%). If AVs do prove able to serve let&#8217;s say 50% of the US mobility opportunity (i.e. a greater portion of the suburbs), we&#8217;d instead be looking at ~18% of profits being susceptible (vs. 9%). </p><p>How is the US mobility segment doing today? Surely growth must be slowing? Actually, no. In fact, the company is very emphatically telling us that the US mobility segment is doing the exact opposite &#8212; it&#8217;s actually accelerating. From Uber&#8217;s Q4&#8217;25 prepared remarks in reference to its mobility segment:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;Looking ahead, continued improvements in marketplace health are supporting better per-trip economics. New rider growth reached multi-year highs in 2025 and our new rider cohorts are engaging more than prior cohorts, reinforcing the durability of demand and long-term lifetime value. <strong>We expect U.S. trip and gross bookings growth to accelerate further in 2026</strong>, on the back of a healthier pricing environment supported by lower insurance costs, strong supply dynamics, and accelerating product innovation. Together, these factors leave us well positioned to deliver another year of both healthy top-line growth and strong margin expansion.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>Uber even underlined the bolded part above just to emphasize its level of conviction in this prediction. In Q1&#8217;26, Uber reaffirmed this belief that US mobility would accelerate. So whatever impact AVs may have, it&#8217;s not going to show up in 2026, at a minimum.</p><p>We also have the curious dynamic that AVs seem to already increase the size of the rideshare TAM within a market, even today when they are not lower cost. Below is commentary from Uber&#8217;s Q4&#8217;25 prepared remarks, discussing how Uber is experiencing better mobility growth in markets with AVs (even when the AVs are not on the Uber network):</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!W7m5!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb0af61b8-ff6a-4516-aebb-307de0813b6d_1005x548.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!W7m5!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb0af61b8-ff6a-4516-aebb-307de0813b6d_1005x548.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!W7m5!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb0af61b8-ff6a-4516-aebb-307de0813b6d_1005x548.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!W7m5!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb0af61b8-ff6a-4516-aebb-307de0813b6d_1005x548.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!W7m5!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb0af61b8-ff6a-4516-aebb-307de0813b6d_1005x548.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!W7m5!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb0af61b8-ff6a-4516-aebb-307de0813b6d_1005x548.png" width="1005" height="548" 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb0af61b8-ff6a-4516-aebb-307de0813b6d_1005x548.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!W7m5!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb0af61b8-ff6a-4516-aebb-307de0813b6d_1005x548.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!W7m5!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb0af61b8-ff6a-4516-aebb-307de0813b6d_1005x548.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!W7m5!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb0af61b8-ff6a-4516-aebb-307de0813b6d_1005x548.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;Reality: AVs are likely to drive incremental growth for the entire category.  The history of ridesharing has always been supply-led. Our network benefits from every incremental unit of supply added in a city. As supply increases, customers find more value because rides become more affordable with faster ETAs. This fact alone gives us considerable conviction that AVs (as a new form of supply) will expand&#8212;not shrink&#8212;our total addressable market. Early data supports this view. <strong>In Austin and Atlanta, where hundreds of AVs are operating on the Uber network, our overall (AV and non-AV) trip growth has significantly accelerated. In fact, the Austin and Atlanta AV operating zones are now among our fastest-growing areas in the U.S.</strong> Encouragingly, the overall growth in these markets was driven by both an acceleration in new riders trying Uber for the first time and higher frequency among existing riders. Importantly, even as AV penetration has grown in both cities, the number of human drivers and their average earnings per hour are both up YoY because of the hybrid-network approach. <strong>At the same time, even in a city like San Francisco, where we don&#8217;t yet offer AV trips on Uber, the addition of AV supply to the market has grown the category overall. Uber trips in SF accelerated in 2025, and they are growing faster than the rest of the U.S.</strong> We are very bullish about the Bay Area as we make progress toward our own AV deployments there within the next 12 months.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>As mentioned above, even in a market in SF where Uber has no AVs on offer, Uber trips <em>accelerated</em> in 2025. It&#8217;s a surprising result, perhaps driven by the fact that if more people are taking rideshare more often, eventually they will need Uber for its lower ETAs and pricing.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-23" href="#footnote-23" target="_self">23</a><a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-24" href="#footnote-24" target="_self">24</a></p><p>Further, the only group that&#8217;s really attacking Uber at this point is Waymo. And Waymo is still very small. While the company is scaling up quickly, it is doing so off a small base. Waymo is currently doing ~500k rides per week. </p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!0-Ko!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcec4c259-49c0-4ad3-b4a4-8b986b1a7415_751x527.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!0-Ko!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcec4c259-49c0-4ad3-b4a4-8b986b1a7415_751x527.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!0-Ko!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcec4c259-49c0-4ad3-b4a4-8b986b1a7415_751x527.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!0-Ko!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcec4c259-49c0-4ad3-b4a4-8b986b1a7415_751x527.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!0-Ko!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcec4c259-49c0-4ad3-b4a4-8b986b1a7415_751x527.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!0-Ko!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcec4c259-49c0-4ad3-b4a4-8b986b1a7415_751x527.png" width="751" height="527" 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcec4c259-49c0-4ad3-b4a4-8b986b1a7415_751x527.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!0-Ko!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcec4c259-49c0-4ad3-b4a4-8b986b1a7415_751x527.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!0-Ko!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcec4c259-49c0-4ad3-b4a4-8b986b1a7415_751x527.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!0-Ko!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcec4c259-49c0-4ad3-b4a4-8b986b1a7415_751x527.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" 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y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Waymo is targeting ~1mm trips per week by the end of 2026, or ~52mm trips on an annualized basis. </p><p>By 2030, Bloomberg expects this figure to grow to roughly ~7mm trips per week or roughly ~360mm trips annually.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!vDvB!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8ee358e9-9213-48c3-85a8-2aca4206c399_602x392.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!vDvB!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8ee358e9-9213-48c3-85a8-2aca4206c399_602x392.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!vDvB!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8ee358e9-9213-48c3-85a8-2aca4206c399_602x392.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!vDvB!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8ee358e9-9213-48c3-85a8-2aca4206c399_602x392.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!vDvB!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8ee358e9-9213-48c3-85a8-2aca4206c399_602x392.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!vDvB!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8ee358e9-9213-48c3-85a8-2aca4206c399_602x392.png" width="602" height="392" 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8ee358e9-9213-48c3-85a8-2aca4206c399_602x392.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!vDvB!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8ee358e9-9213-48c3-85a8-2aca4206c399_602x392.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!vDvB!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8ee358e9-9213-48c3-85a8-2aca4206c399_602x392.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!vDvB!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8ee358e9-9213-48c3-85a8-2aca4206c399_602x392.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" 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2025, however, Uber did 13.5bn trips between its mobility and delivery businesses. If we assume 50% of these trips were for mobility, and 33% of these trips happened in the US, then Uber did ~2.2bn US mobility trips in 2025. If we assume this figure grows by ~12% annually, then in 2030 Uber might do ~3.8bn US mobility trips. This means that by 2030, Waymo would still only have just ~10% of the US rideshare market. And by that point, Uber&#8217;s AV initiatives would be well underway.</p><p>From Uber&#8217;s Q4&#8217;25 prepared remarks:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;As we have said many times before, we have barely scratched the surface of the AV opportunity, with AV trips (on or off Uber&#8217;s platform) globally accounting for just 0.1% of global rideshare trips. <strong>Given our growth at scale, autonomous vehicles are likely to remain a very small portion of the rideshare category for many years to come. As a point of comparison, our Mobility business is currently adding ~50x the total global AV category volume.</strong>&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>Lastly, Waymo/Tesla are also trying to scale in an industry (owned fleets) that is not exactly conducive to the kind of explosive growth that we saw in the early days of Uber. Here is Uber management from a Mar-26 Morgan Stanley conference:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;The second thing I&#8217;d say here is what tends to be true for winner-take-all or winner-take-most kind of deployments is that they tend to have a very hockey stick inflection curve, and those gating factors we just talked about ensure that this is going to grow at a slower rate than what the fundamental nature of a winner-take-all deployment is. And I think <strong>the way I think about this in my mind is the fastest-growing AV deployments right now are, at best, tripling their volumes year-on-year. In the early years of Uber&#8217;s deployment, for the first 6 or 7 years, Uber almost 9 to 10x-ed its volumes every year, right?</strong> That was the exponential curve, which we were on and where AVs are right now.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>So to recap, AVs currently threaten a relatively small piece of Uber&#8217;s business today (especially if we assume the suburbs are mostly off limits). That &#8220;threatened&#8221; piece of Uber&#8217;s business is actually slated to accelerate in 2026. And finally AVs are expanding off a small base, and though rides are growing quickly, there are real constraints around just how fast the shift can go.</p><p><em>If Large, Aggressive Competitors Engage in &#8216;Growth at Any Cost,&#8217; It Could Suck </em></p><p>In this business, if you have a competitor that does not care about lighting money on fire, it can be especially rough. You can get people to switch from Uber if you make your offering cheap enough. Ultimately getting from A to B, or getting something delivered, is commodity-adjacent. People will switch if they&#8217;re getting a good enough deal. And given the large potential prizes in mobility/delivery, and the types of competitors circling the space, we may well get some &#8220;growth at any cost&#8221; challengers. </p><p>&#8220;GaaC&#8221; challengers has been a persistent dynamic in the industry. Uber itself eventually had to throw in the towel in China, SE Asia, India (in food delivery), and Brazil (also in food delivery), as burn rates were too high for even it to stomach.</p><p>Uber and Lyft battled it out for almost a decade in the US. Here is Bill Gurley, in a Feb-26 interview with <em>Stratechery</em>, recounting Uber&#8217;s rivalry with Lyft:</p><blockquote><p>BT: <em>&#8220;Not just that, but Lyft was about to go out of business, and suddenly they get millions of dollars in funding&#8230;You go back a year before, it looked like it was over, and suddenly Lyft has new life because of this.&#8221;</em></p><p>BG: <em>&#8220;Yes, we could see it in the numbers. The reason, especially in the coastal areas, the brand was taking heavy artillery fire, and people were switching to Lyft. By the way, that took eight years to get some people off of. They would ride Lyft, just because they hated the brand of Uber.&#8221;</em></p><p>BT: <em>&#8220;<strong>It severely impaired Uber&#8217;s profitability, I would say, for about eight years.</strong>&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>During this period at the end of the Kalanick era, Uber cracked the door open for Lyft to raise new funds. Lyft would go on to raise ~$7bn (more than its entire valuation today of ~$6bn) across 7 separate fundraises between 2014 and its IPO in 2019. This gave Lyft the firepower to slug it out with Uber for many years, keeping everyone&#8217;s profitability in check.</p><p>Meituan, China&#8217;s leading food delivery company, is dealing with this problem today. Alibaba recently launched a &#8220;GaaC&#8221; campaign, and is forecasted to increase its market share from 21% in 2024 to 40% in 2027. Meanwhile Meituan, once thought to have an impregnable moat in China, is forecasted to see its share fall from 73% in 2024 to 55% in 2027. According to this <a href="https://www.ft.com/content/ab22c799-6370-4f8c-9256-d5bfd28e0aa1?syn-25a6b1a6=1">FT</a> article, &#8220;Goldman Sachs analysts estimate that Meituan will lose on average about Rmb1 for every instant delivery order this year, helping to push it to a third-quarter loss of Rmb16bn &#8212; its largest since going public in 2018.&#8221;</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Gzo9!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff3d59f30-587b-465d-b01d-1590990f8788_685x470.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Gzo9!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff3d59f30-587b-465d-b01d-1590990f8788_685x470.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Gzo9!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff3d59f30-587b-465d-b01d-1590990f8788_685x470.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Gzo9!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff3d59f30-587b-465d-b01d-1590990f8788_685x470.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Gzo9!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff3d59f30-587b-465d-b01d-1590990f8788_685x470.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Gzo9!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff3d59f30-587b-465d-b01d-1590990f8788_685x470.png" width="685" height="470" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/f3d59f30-587b-465d-b01d-1590990f8788_685x470.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:470,&quot;width&quot;:685,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:110817,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/189172282?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff3d59f30-587b-465d-b01d-1590990f8788_685x470.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Gzo9!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff3d59f30-587b-465d-b01d-1590990f8788_685x470.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Gzo9!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff3d59f30-587b-465d-b01d-1590990f8788_685x470.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Gzo9!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff3d59f30-587b-465d-b01d-1590990f8788_685x470.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Gzo9!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff3d59f30-587b-465d-b01d-1590990f8788_685x470.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>It hasn&#8217;t been a fun couple years for Meituan shareholders. Here are more quotes from the article:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!-H-a!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3be2eee2-1eff-44d1-9b22-e60fe88f1ca0_2050x905.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!-H-a!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3be2eee2-1eff-44d1-9b22-e60fe88f1ca0_2050x905.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!-H-a!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3be2eee2-1eff-44d1-9b22-e60fe88f1ca0_2050x905.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!-H-a!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3be2eee2-1eff-44d1-9b22-e60fe88f1ca0_2050x905.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!-H-a!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3be2eee2-1eff-44d1-9b22-e60fe88f1ca0_2050x905.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!-H-a!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3be2eee2-1eff-44d1-9b22-e60fe88f1ca0_2050x905.png" width="1456" height="643" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/3be2eee2-1eff-44d1-9b22-e60fe88f1ca0_2050x905.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:643,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:1079111,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/189172282?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3be2eee2-1eff-44d1-9b22-e60fe88f1ca0_2050x905.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!-H-a!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3be2eee2-1eff-44d1-9b22-e60fe88f1ca0_2050x905.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!-H-a!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3be2eee2-1eff-44d1-9b22-e60fe88f1ca0_2050x905.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!-H-a!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3be2eee2-1eff-44d1-9b22-e60fe88f1ca0_2050x905.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!-H-a!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3be2eee2-1eff-44d1-9b22-e60fe88f1ca0_2050x905.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Even Brazil&#8217;s iFood, with some 80-90% market share in food delivery (which you might think would be enough to ward off competitors), is <a href="https://www.ft.com/content/42ebe96a-f9ae-46f7-be29-1eb63174515b?syn-25a6b1a6=1">dealing</a> with aggressive new entrants in Meituan and DiDi.</p><p>What&#8217;s the best defense against a &#8220;GaaC&#8221; competitor? Unfortunately, the only real option, it seems, is to go scorched earth back, and hope to shut the door on your competitor as quickly as possible. Here is Uber management discussing their response to Chinese rideshare leader DiDi spending aggressively to take share in Latin America. From Q1&#8217;24 earnings:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;I think in terms of Latin America and the competitive environment there, first thing I&#8217;d say, I&#8217;m assuming you&#8217;re asking about Mobility, we&#8217;re seeing very healthy Mobility volume growth in Latin America, in mid-20s. So we like the market, and we certainly like the volumes that we&#8217;re seeing there. I would say that while &#8212; I think you&#8217;re referring to DiDi, they signaled a bit more capital discipline, we&#8217;re not seeing that as of yet. We see DiDi being highly competitive in the marketplace and spending into the marketplace quite aggressively.</em></p><p><em>Listen, it could be temporary. It might be driven by their desire to show international growth as the China markets have slowed down a bit as the prep for the IPO, but it&#8217;s difficult for us to speculate on that. And I&#8217;d say, we&#8217;ve seen this behavior before, Brian. <strong>And we have a very strong record of effectively responding to defend our category position when our competitors spend up and we do the same thing, and typically, we&#8217;re much more efficient than our competition in terms of financial efficiency, network efficiency, et cetera.</strong> But at this point, we see DiDi leaning in, certainly not leaning out.</em></p><p><em><strong>And we are leaning in as a response, just like we do with other competitors all around the world.</strong> <strong>The good news for us is we have a very strong P&amp;L, you see our margins continue to increase, so we have lots of pockets of investments to reach into, but we are going to be aggressive.&#8221;</strong></em></p></blockquote><p>What could deter a &#8220;growth at any cost&#8221; approach today?</p><ul><li><p>Uber&#8217;s size. Uber&#8217;s size is a deterrent. At this point, Uber can clearly spend what is necessary to defend itself successfully in just about any market &#8212; so what&#8217;s the point in challenging Uber? It has a ~$150bn mkt cap, will do ~$16bn in EBITDA in 2027 (pro forma for DH), and operates across ~100 countries. Picking on Uber today would only really make sense if you are a Mag-7 company.</p></li><li><p>Uber One. ~50% of Uber&#8217;s bookings now come from Uber One members (a figure that is growing rapidly). That&#8217;s a level of customer stickiness that hasn&#8217;t existed in the industry historically. </p></li><li><p>The industry is more mature. The industry is a lot more consolidated today. Further, most of Uber&#8217;s legacy competitors are now public, and scorched earth tactics would likely tank their stocks. </p></li></ul><p>Ultimately, there&#8217;s nothing really Uber (or anybody) can do about a competitor going into full &#8220;land grab&#8221; mode, and it sucks for everyone until somebody throws in the towel. </p><p>As mentioned, it seems the only groups for whom it could make sense to challenge Uber are Mag-7 companies. Unfortunately for Uber, three of the Mag-7 (Google, Amazon and Tesla) have robotaxi initiatives.</p><p><em>Uber Partners Can&#8217;t Get to the Finish Line on L4 Autonomy</em></p><p>It took Waymo 17+ years and $30bn+ to achieve L4 autonomy. Tesla has been working on (and promising) self-driving for about a decade. Despite a tremendous amount of effort (and a tremendous amount of real-world driving data), Tesla is still at L2+/++.</p><p>Why do we think challengers like Nuro (or even NVIDIA) aren&#8217;t going to slog away for another few years without fully getting to the finish line?</p><p>One strong rebuttal is that there are currently three Chinese players that, while not on the same level as Waymo, have just about solved L4, it seems. Their combined robotaxi fleet in operation is expected to reach &#8220;<a href="https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/china-robotaxi-self-driving-waymo-254ce0a1">tens of thousands</a>&#8221; by the end of 2026. WeRide currently offers autonomous rides in soon-to-be five international cities for Uber. Pony.ai does so in Zagreb and soon Dubai. And Apollo Go (owned by Baidu) is arguably the most advanced of the three. </p><p>Another rebuttal is that the path to L4 has gotten much easier since the early days of Waymo. For one, sensor hardware and compute has gotten much better/more powerful and much cheaper, which is a tremendous help. Additionally, the ability to simulate driving scenarios to train a model has become a very powerful thing, somewhat obfuscating the need for a tremendous amount of real-world driving data. But most importantly, the rise of AI/transformers has brought about a second generation of AV companies, which are basically using end-to-end AI to solve for AV. To way oversimplify: a bunch of sensor information comes in (through cameras, LiDAR, radar), there&#8217;s a giant neural net in the middle, and driving instructions go out the other end.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-25" href="#footnote-25" target="_self">25</a><a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-26" href="#footnote-26" target="_self">26</a> As one can imagine, training a giant neural net (though still incredibly difficult) is much easier, and way less costly, than employing an army of engineers to basically hard-code driving logic. </p><p>Some other reasons for optimism:</p><ul><li><p>Nuro is close to launching (in ~H2&#8217;26) what seems like it should be a pretty robust, unsupervised commercial service in the SF Bay Area. It should be noted, however, that Nuro&#8217;s key initial vehicle partner &#8212; Nuro &#8212; is potentially on the <a href="https://www.ft.com/content/2ea2d9d3-e415-4812-9cec-75f9c6f9514f?syn-25a6b1a6=1">verge of bankruptcy</a>. This would be quite an unfortunate development for Nuro, Lucid and Uber, potentially derailing the whole partnership. </p></li><li><p>NVIDIA is NVIDIA. It&#8217;s the largest company in the world, and self-driving is an important initiative for them. They have been working on self-driving for ~7 years and are close to launching their own fleet of pilot vehicles (in ~H1&#8217;27).</p></li><li><p>Some carmakers are going at this alone, like VW (through its MOIA division) and Rivian (which even has its own chips). While we&#8217;ll see how good a decision this proves to be, just the fact that they think they can do it, perhaps shows that this is doable within a reasonable set of constraints.</p></li><li><p>Waymo has not only achieved L4, but they&#8217;ve kind of nailed it. Yes Waymos have issues, but the Waymo Driver is apparently ~10x safer than the average human driver already.</p></li><li><p>The reason Tesla can&#8217;t get over the finish line may be unique to Tesla: they are the only company attempting a camera-only approach. This increases the degree of difficulty materially, and may be a large part of what&#8217;s holding Tesla back.</p></li></ul><p>In all, I think we&#8217;ll get at least a couple more players over the finish line reasonably soon. Here is Dara from a May-26 <em>Decoder</em> interview, expressing strong confidence in this belief:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;All the evidence that we see is, yes, Waymo is past the finish line. They&#8217;re the leader, they are in many ways inspiration for many, many companies in this industry. They&#8217;re a great partner of ours in Atlanta, in Austin. </em></p><p><em>There are many other companies that are getting to the finish line. <strong>WeRide for example, or a Pony.ai, or Baidu, these are Chinese companies, are already at the finish line.</strong> And we are in market, for example, with WeRide in the Middle East, and there are players like a Nuro or a Waabi, or an Avride, or a Wayve, all of whom are accelerating to the finish line. <strong>And if anything, the speed of getting to the finish line is accelerating.</strong> </em></p><p><em>One, model capabilities are much, much better now, used to be kind of deterministic, you know, kind of code that you had to slog through. Now, obviously it&#8217;s learning AI models. &#8216;Sim&#8217; capability is much better, so that data will go much further in terms of model training.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>Here is Xinzhou Wu, Head of Automotive at NVIDIA, on a Jul-26 <em><a href="https://youtu.be/EhNQJe2m-zA?t=3812">Decoder</a></em> podcast going on the record that L4 will be an ADAS-like commodity feature in less than 5 years:</p><blockquote><p>Interviewer: <em>&#8220;The question I have is the mainstream experience feels like you just buy a car and, just like level two ADAS is kind of a commodity in cars now, level four will be a mainstream commodity in cars. You push the button it starts driving itself. How far away do you think we are from that?&#8221;</em></p><p>XW: <em>&#8220;Well first of all that&#8217;s exactly my mission, trying to help the industry to get there. I would say <strong>if I need to give a time I would say five years, less than five years.</strong>&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>Over the long-term, the most likely case may be that the number of AV providers will be whittled down to just a handful, however. The most pertinent reason being that it&#8217;s just very costly to train these models. Once a few winners are established, generating real revenue, and extending leadership in their tech, I suspect others will start to fall away. Perhaps the most likely case is that Waymo, NVIDIA, 2-3 Chinese players, Tesla, probably Zoox and perhaps another 1-2 players find some degree of success in AVs.</p><p><em>No More Supply &#8220;Exclusivity?&#8221;</em> </p><p>What if fleet owners make their cars available on any 1P network (Uber, Lyft, Waymo, Tesla, Zoox, etc.)? This is probably much easier to do in an AV world?</p><p>I suspect the answer is &#8220;yes&#8221; and that this probably will happen to some degree. It already happens today &#8212; many drivers simultaneously drive for both Uber and Lyft. </p><p>Here are reasons this may not happen:</p><ul><li><p>Uber&#8217;s Autonomous Solutions. This offering does a fair amount of things that seem pretty sticky: handling insurance, handling in-car experience including in-car customer support, &#8220;control tower&#8221; software for fleet owners, handling complex rides (like shared rides, &#8220;reserve&#8221; and &#8220;wait &amp; save&#8221;). </p></li><li><p>Depots / fleet partnerships. It seems likely that Uber will own many of its own depots/charging infrastructure in certain markets. It may have exclusive partnerships with certain fleet operators in certain markets. If AV owners want access to these things, they&#8217;d have to make their cars available on Uber, perhaps exclusively.</p></li><li><p>Financing complications. Some AVs will operate like today&#8217;s Ubers &#8212; sometimes referred to as the &#8220;agency model.&#8221; There will be an owner, the owner pays for everything (except insurance when driving for Uber) and Uber will take a percentage of the ride fare and pay out the rest to the AV owner. In an agency model, an owner could make their cars available on many platforms at once, in theory. But some AVs could be financed through a &#8220;leasing model.&#8221; In this model, Uber pays out a fixed fee per mile (with a minimum mile guarantee), and keeps the rest. This provides more certainty to vehicle owners, but could also lock them into the Uber network.</p></li><li><p>Other strategies. There might be other strategies Uber could employ, like offering &#8220;priority&#8221; to vehicles exclusive to Uber&#8217;s platform. Something like this might drastically change the calculus for fleet owners.</p></li><li><p>Some AVs will likely just be owned by Uber </p></li></ul><p>Given all this, it may not be feasible for AVs to operate on more than 1-2 networks. </p><p>Further, as long as Uber is one of the networks that everyone makes their AVs available on, then Uber should theoretically retain its crown as the most liquid marketplace and be able to somewhat sidestep this risk. </p><p><em>Are We Sure Uber is Capital-Lite?</em></p><p>For a capital-lite business, Uber sure is deploying a lot of capital. In fact, according to the <a href="https://www.ft.com/content/564c26d9-489c-435b-88f7-2df388e058d3?syn-25a6b1a6=1">FT</a>, the company has committed in the neighborhood of ~$10bn to AVs between its fleet commitments and investments in AV tech providers:</p><div class="twitter-embed" data-attrs="{&quot;url&quot;:&quot;https://x.com/RealJimChanos/status/2044376238962200848&quot;,&quot;full_text&quot;:&quot;Capital-lite models transforming into capital-intensive ones. Now playing at a Silicon Valley theater near you.&quot;,&quot;username&quot;:&quot;RealJimChanos&quot;,&quot;name&quot;:&quot;James Chanos&quot;,&quot;profile_image_url&quot;:&quot;https://pbs.substack.com/profile_images/1820864350820741120/iX0wfm3J_normal.jpg&quot;,&quot;date&quot;:&quot;2026-04-15T11:24:12.000Z&quot;,&quot;photos&quot;:[],&quot;quoted_tweet&quot;:{&quot;full_text&quot;:&quot;FT: Uber commits $10bn to robotaxis in strategy shift [Balance sheet anxiety is real.] $UBER&quot;,&quot;username&quot;:&quot;UnHedgedChatter&quot;,&quot;name&quot;:&quot;UnHedgedChatter&quot;,&quot;profile_image_url&quot;:&quot;https://pbs.substack.com/profile_images/748927916898131968/MnPePwaj_normal.jpg&quot;},&quot;reply_count&quot;:30,&quot;retweet_count&quot;:74,&quot;like_count&quot;:629,&quot;impression_count&quot;:88347,&quot;expanded_url&quot;:null,&quot;video_url&quot;:null,&quot;video_preview_media_key&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true}" data-component-name="Twitter2ToDOM"></div><p>From the article:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;These deals put Uber on track to invest more than $2.5bn in equity stakes and spend over $7.5bn on robotaxi fleets in the next few years, according to FT calculations based on analyst estimates and people familiar with Uber&#8217;s deals. The agreements are contingent on its partners hitting certain deployment milestones.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>Quoted in this article is Walter Piecyk, who hosts the AUTNMY podcast (a good listen!), and is a close follower of the space. He believes Uber is transitioning into a more asset-heavy business:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;Walter Piecyk, analyst at LightShed Partners, a venture capital investor, believes Uber&#8217;s recent robotaxi spending spree is &#8216;step one in a complete narrative change&#8217; around its business. &#8216;I think they are easing people into the concept of Uber owning fleets of vehicles,&#8217; he said.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>While the company is using its balance sheet to seed the platform with AVs, the company has been clear that its preference is to remain asset-light. Here is Andrew Macdonald on a Feb-26 <em>The Compound</em> podcast:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;So Uber&#8217;s famously an asset light marketplace. <strong>It&#8217;s been one of the appeals for investors about our business model and our intent long-term is to maintain that. 10 years from now I don&#8217;t want to be sitting here as the largest owner of autonomous vehicles in the world,</strong> even if I am confident that we&#8217;re going to be the largest network for getting autonomous rides&#8230;</em></p><p><em>I want to have them on our network. I don&#8217;t want to have them on our balance sheet. But there&#8217;s a difference between what we think the end-state model looks like and what we think we need to do in the next couple of years to make sure that we lead in that end-state model. And I think the reality is there&#8217;s a lot of value in having a company like Uber step up and be able to underwrite some of the asset purchases, or in the case of working with OEMs, being able to help them stand up a supply chain on their side and start mass producing these things knowing that they&#8217;ve got guaranteed locked in demand from Uber. So we will play that role in the short term.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>Getting more asset-heavy during this transition period seems necessary. The economics of robotaxis are not proven yet (and frankly probably aren&#8217;t good at this point), so there is no one willing to buy these cars. And if there is no one willing to buy them, there of course is no one willing to build them. But Uber needs carmakers to build AVs. Otherwise, Waymo, Tesla, etc. will pull ahead even further. So Uber&#8217;s strategy has been to use its financial might to buy cars and drive the broader AV industry forward. I have no qualms with this strategy &#8212; it seems like the right thing to do.</p><p>The question is, will they be able to pull back on buying these cars at some point (with others coming in to take their place)? It&#8217;s Uber management&#8217;s belief that, as the economics are proven out, investors/fleet operators will begin buying up these cars. </p><p>In their mind, the category will &#8220;financialize,&#8221; similar to how the world of hotels has financialized over the years. In hotels, brands like Marriott and Hyatt no longer actually own the hotels. They own the hotel brand and receive rev share in exchange for said branding and other services. You have independent groups that staff and manage the hotels (i.e. fleet operators, in this scenario). And then you have the groups that actually own the hotel (i.e. the land and buildings). These groups might be anything from a large REIT (that owns hundreds) down to an individual (that may own just one).</p><p>In Uber&#8217;s view, AV fleets will be similar. Large financial groups like a Blackstone may own big fleets operating in big cities like NYC. Single individuals (like current Uber drivers) might also own perhaps just a handful. And there will be many in between.</p><p>From a Mar-26 Semafor podcast:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;So the ecosystem that we see is that in the big cities, for example, there will be very large fleets that are going to be owned by big financial institutions, the Blackstone&#8217;s of the world etc. They they will own and finance the fleets. We will build that whole operating infrastructure, the fleet management tools, the recharging etc. And so in large markets, you will have institutional supply. </em></p><p><em>And then on the on the outskirts of those markets, in a Westchester County, Tarrytown, New York or that area, you&#8217;re going to have smaller entrepreneurs. There may be two people with a garage that have bought 20 cars that are running a smaller fleet management operation, and it&#8217;s going to be quite entrepreneurial. Hopefully, a lot of those people will be our drivers. And then I do think there will be a minority of individuals who kind of send their cars out. It will certainly be something that you can do. </em></p><p><em>But I imagine it to be a little bit like Airbnb, where you&#8217;ve got these &#8220;superhosts.&#8221; And then you&#8217;ve got &#8212; a lot of Airbnb&#8217;s volume sure comes from individuals, but there are these &#8220;superhosts&#8221; as well. You will have &#8220;superhosts&#8221; in the big cities &#8212; there&#8217;ll be institutions &#8212; and then on the outskirts in the suburbs, you&#8217;ll have kind of smaller fleet managers who are entrepreneurs who are building business for themselves.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>I think it probably is true that if there is a healthy, predictable return to be made, investors will come in. However, none of this has been proven out yet, and there are real risks for investors in AV supply today &#8212; for example, how long will these cars last, what will residual values be, what happens when cheaper next-gen cars undercut prices, can we trust that Uber won&#8217;t be disrupted by Waymo/Tesla?</p><p>I also believe management has started to convey an openness to, let&#8217;s say, becoming less asset-light. Here is COO Andrew MacDonald from a May-26 <a href="https://youtu.be/y_mQ6xLcKyc?t=1295">Rapid Response </a>interview:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;We have 25 autonomous vehicle partnerships today globally and [are] starting to work with our partners to scale, <strong>helping them build out the physical world infrastructure they need to scale whether that&#8217;s depot or charging capacity</strong> or remote vehicle management or customer support&#8230;<br><br>I think many models will emerge. I think you&#8217;ll have fleets that will own these assets. I think you&#8217;ll have financial investors that will own these assets. I think you&#8217;ll have individuals that will own these assets. <strong>And so whether or not we need to own vehicles directly, own fleets directly, own the technology directly, I think is something that will get answered over time.</strong> Our position today is that that&#8217;s not our role in the ecosystem. But like any management team, we should always be open to changing our mind. If the facts change or our strategy is proven to be wrong, then then we&#8217;ll have to change direction.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>I think the chances are we will see Uber continue down the asset-heavy path for awhile longer, longer than probably Uber initially thought. Over time, as the industry matures, I think it&#8217;s also reasonably likely that most vehicles are owned by third parties.</p><p><em>Agent Disintermediation</em></p><p>In the future, some percentage of rides might come through an agent. Maybe you request a ride from your personal assistant agent. The agent knows your preferences, etc. It goes out and books you a ride. </p><p>The problem for Uber is that before booking your ride, your agent might compare the cost of a ride on Uber with the cost of a ride on Lyft, Waymo, Tesla, etc., and book you the cheapest one. This would have a further commoditizing effect on Uber &#8212; you might not even know you are riding in one.</p><p>I could also see this being a problem with Uber Eats. An agent could take your order and check pricing on Uber Eats, DoorDash, or directly with the restaurant. Oftentimes, direct to the restaurant may be the cheapest route. While Uber Eats might ultimately still make the delivery (through Uber Direct in this case), Uber might extract a lower take rate.</p><p>A mitigating factor across both delivery and mobility is Uber One, which has the effect of locking users into the Uber ecosystem. However, it&#8217;s unclear if the lock-in from Uber One would be powerful enough to counteract this disintermediation.</p><p>Other mitigating factors, with respect to delivery, are that (1) it&#8217;s not that hard to open the app and put in an order (and there is a smaller chance the order is placed wrong by doing so), (2) I&#8217;d say most users like to browse the app to see what they feel like eating and (3) probably only by opening the app will you be able to see what deals are on offer.</p><p>Lastly, Uber could also just elect to not allow agents to access its platforms. Amazon has done this in shopping, preventing third party shopping agents from &#8220;crawling&#8221; its site. I think Uber might ultimately have trouble with such a strategy, however. Blocking personal agents from Google or Meta, for example, seems like it would do more harm than good.</p><p>In all, while I don&#8217;t quite see the risk yet, I understand why some are focused on it and it&#8217;s certainly something to monitor. </p><p><em>Is Delivery Going to Hit a Wall?</em></p><p>Here is Jim Chanos making the case that we can&#8217;t expect food delivery to outpace food restaurant SSS forever.</p><div class="twitter-embed" data-attrs="{&quot;url&quot;:&quot;https://x.com/RealJimChanos/status/2053590178950685055&quot;,&quot;full_text&quot;:&quot;Can someone explain to me how investors continue to believe that $DASH and $UBER Eats will continue to grow GOV&#8217;s 15-20 pts above industry comps for the next decade&#8230;?! It&#8217;s not such a small base anymore.&quot;,&quot;username&quot;:&quot;RealJimChanos&quot;,&quot;name&quot;:&quot;James Chanos&quot;,&quot;profile_image_url&quot;:&quot;https://pbs.substack.com/profile_images/1820864350820741120/iX0wfm3J_normal.jpg&quot;,&quot;date&quot;:&quot;2026-05-10T21:37:07.000Z&quot;,&quot;photos&quot;:[],&quot;quoted_tweet&quot;:{&quot;full_text&quot;:&quot;We may never see a generational run like Chili's had with the Triple Dipper ever again:&quot;,&quot;username&quot;:&quot;ConsensusGurus&quot;,&quot;name&quot;:&quot;Consensus Media&quot;,&quot;profile_image_url&quot;:&quot;https://pbs.substack.com/profile_images/2015074117234413568/UPyudCUJ_normal.jpg&quot;},&quot;reply_count&quot;:37,&quot;retweet_count&quot;:10,&quot;like_count&quot;:171,&quot;impression_count&quot;:68721,&quot;expanded_url&quot;:null,&quot;video_url&quot;:null,&quot;video_preview_media_key&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true}" data-component-name="Twitter2ToDOM"></div><p>And indeed if we look at Uber Eats and DoorDash&#8217;s combined delivery business, we do seem to be getting &#8220;up there&#8221; in terms of their share of the market. One estimate, detailed later on, puts their combined penetration at around ~10% of total restaurant spend &#8212; how much higher can we reasonably go?</p><p>At the same time, even Chanos qualifies his tweet above by saying it can&#8217;t be expected for the next &#8220;decade.&#8221; And he is smart to qualify, because Uber Eats and DoorDash continue to grow their delivery businesses quite nicely.</p><p>Look at these bookings growth rates from Uber Eats&#8230;</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Uj2d!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffea7feac-c481-4bd8-b808-3bbe19dee73e_1953x1266.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Uj2d!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, 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DoorDash&#8230;</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ADqW!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff52890cb-2089-4f1f-9549-6453a72fbeca_6404x4558.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ADqW!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff52890cb-2089-4f1f-9549-6453a72fbeca_6404x4558.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ADqW!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff52890cb-2089-4f1f-9549-6453a72fbeca_6404x4558.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ADqW!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff52890cb-2089-4f1f-9549-6453a72fbeca_6404x4558.png" width="602" height="428.34615384615387" 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff52890cb-2089-4f1f-9549-6453a72fbeca_6404x4558.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ADqW!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff52890cb-2089-4f1f-9549-6453a72fbeca_6404x4558.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ADqW!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff52890cb-2089-4f1f-9549-6453a72fbeca_6404x4558.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ADqW!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff52890cb-2089-4f1f-9549-6453a72fbeca_6404x4558.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" 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y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Uber Eats and DoorDash have grown by 15% and 22% (organic) CAGRs since 2021, respectively. Further, growth in 2025 actually accelerated for both companies. Based purely on momentum, healthy growth seems poised to continue for awhile longer. </p><p>For growth to sustain over the medium to long term, however, one probably needs to believe one or more of the following things: (1) that DoorDash and Uber Eats can successfully penetrate the grocery market (a market much larger than food delivery), (2) that DoorDash and Uber Eats can have some level of success with retail and/or their white label delivery offerings (fulfilling orders placed directly with merchants), (3) that autonomous delivery will happen which will lower costs and unlock a greater piece of all of the markets above, and/or (4) restaurants will reduce the cost of making food through automation (ala Travis Kalanick&#8217;s Cloud Kitchens), allowing restaurants to take some incremental share from grocery.</p><p>I would also mention that folks do not seem to be paying an unsustainable amount on delivery platforms like Uber Eats and DoorDash, like <a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2026/01/30/dining/food-delivery-apps-doordash-uber.html">some</a> articles would lead you to believe. In fact, total spend on restaurants (as a share of total consumption) has actually never been lower, according to this chart (see red line below) from <a href="https://newsletter.mikekonczal.com/p/stop-blaming-doordash-for-the-affordability">Mike Konczal</a>.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NVzk!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc39d3dc1-9f5b-4336-bed4-fe70b13d543f_523x477.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NVzk!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc39d3dc1-9f5b-4336-bed4-fe70b13d543f_523x477.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NVzk!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc39d3dc1-9f5b-4336-bed4-fe70b13d543f_523x477.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NVzk!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc39d3dc1-9f5b-4336-bed4-fe70b13d543f_523x477.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NVzk!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc39d3dc1-9f5b-4336-bed4-fe70b13d543f_523x477.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NVzk!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc39d3dc1-9f5b-4336-bed4-fe70b13d543f_523x477.png" width="523" height="477" 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc39d3dc1-9f5b-4336-bed4-fe70b13d543f_523x477.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NVzk!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc39d3dc1-9f5b-4336-bed4-fe70b13d543f_523x477.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NVzk!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc39d3dc1-9f5b-4336-bed4-fe70b13d543f_523x477.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NVzk!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc39d3dc1-9f5b-4336-bed4-fe70b13d543f_523x477.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>As noted in Konczal&#8217;s article, while delivery spend is way up, most are simply substituting going to a restaurant with delivery. They are not expanding total spend on restaurants. In fact, that spend is continuing to fall, while food at home (i.e. grocery) spend has ticked up.</p><p>I think delivery will likely experience healthy growth longer than some anticipate. It is so much more convenient to have paper towels delivered, or diapers in a pinch, groceries, etc. As more and more people deliver, density improves and costs come down.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-27" href="#footnote-27" target="_self">27</a> As autonomous delivery likely proliferates over the next decade, costs will fall even further.</p><p>Additionally, Amazon is relentlessly investing in faster and faster delivery (which drives conversion). As free same-day delivery proliferates, what are other retailers to do? They must offer the same, and Uber/DoorDash are well positioned to be the partners of choice for these retailers.</p><p>Here is Michael Morton, a Sr Research Analyst with MoffettNathanson, discussing the impact of same-day delivery in a Jun-26 interview with <em>Stratechery</em>:</p><blockquote><p>BT: <em>&#8220;I think the point you made before about speed, <strong>there&#8217;s a mental shift that happens when you actually believe you&#8217;ll get something in a few hours, where it becomes absurd to think you&#8217;ll go to a store.</strong> Your mind starts calculating, &#8220;What if I forget to go to the store?&#8221;, &#8220;What if something comes up?&#8221;, whereas if I order it right now, it&#8217;s going to be here in a few hours. <strong>That window just closes in terms of even considering going to bricks-and-mortar, and in my experience it drives a really marked shift in your default purchase pattern</strong>.&#8221;</em></p><p>MM: <em><strong>&#8220;You wouldn&#8217;t believe the conversion rates &#8212; when we tell people we can get them something at the end of the day or tomorrow morning when they wake up, they go through the roof.&#8221;</strong></em></p></blockquote><p>While it&#8217;s of course important to be realistic about how much more penetrated delivery can get, I do think there&#8217;s a good amount of headroom left.</p><p><em>Other</em></p><ul><li><p><em>Uber Has a Captive Insurer. </em>It&#8217;s hard to be good at insurance. It&#8217;s especially hard if you are not even an insurer. Uber reportedly self-funds nearly 95% of its total insurance exposure. Thus, Uber is a non-insurer that must run its own pretty giant book of insurance (the company had $12.5bn of insurance reserves as of Q4&#8217;25). This is the same book that has <a href="https://www.wsj.com/articles/james-river-group-to-cancel-auto-insurance-for-uber-affiliate-rasier-11570569015">confounded</a> actual insurers in the past (which ultimately led to Uber having to self-insure). However, despite this, the insurance risk seems <em>&lt;gulp&gt;</em> manageable at this point. The company reported in its latest 10-K that changes to insurance reserve estimates as a result of prior period claims (a key metric in judging the quality of insurance underwriting) amounted to just $158mm, -$78mm and -$21mm in 2023, 2024 and 2025, respectively. I&#8217;m no insurance expert, but that seems like a pretty solid (recent) track record vs. a total quantum of insurance reserves in the multi-billions. I think we can be reasonably confident that after a period of poor underwriting (by Uber&#8217;s insurance partners), Uber has gotten its hands around how to price its insurance (for its non-AV business at least). Uber has also made it a point over the past few years to seek regulatory relief to help rein in insurance costs &#8212; an initiative that seems to be working.</p></li><li><p><em>Macro Risk.</em> How will Uber respond in a severe downturn? Surely there will be less food delivery and less mobility trips, all things equal? The answer to this is yes &#8212; however, all things will also not be equal. There is a curious thing that happens with Uber in a downturn, which is that more &#8220;supply&#8221; (or labor) comes online. When more supply comes online, prices fall and demand picks up. Uber has made this case (as well as proven this in actual downturns) many times.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-28" href="#footnote-28" target="_self">28</a><a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-29" href="#footnote-29" target="_self">29</a><a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-30" href="#footnote-30" target="_self">30</a> So while a downturn would not be good for Uber, it may not be as bad as some expect.</p></li><li><p><em>Assault Lawsuits.</em> Uber is facing more than 3,300 assault lawsuits, which have been consolidated in US federal court. In one of the first of these lawsuits to go to trial (in Feb-26), the plaintiff was awarded <a href="https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2026/feb/05/uber-liable-sexual-assault">$8.5mm in damages</a>. In this case, the driver had no criminal history, and had made over 10,000 trips on Uber with a &#8220;nearly perfect rating from riders.&#8221; The plaintiff was seeking $140mm in damages. The jury awarded &#8220;compensatory damages&#8221; but declined to award &#8220;punitive damages.&#8221; From the article: &#8220;In a statement, an Uber spokesperson noted that the jury rejected Dean&#8217;s other claims, that the company was negligent or that its safety systems were defective, adding that the company plans to appeal.&#8221; In another one of these lawsuits that went to trial, according to article, the jury sided with Uber: &#8220;The jury found that while the company had been negligent with its safety measures, that negligence was not a substantial factor in causing the woman&#8217;s harm.&#8221; More recently in Apr-26, <a href="https://www.cbsnews.com/news/uber-liable-driver-grabbed-passenger-inner-thigh/">a jury in North Carolina</a> found that Uber was liable for a driver who grabbed the inner thigh of a passenger as she was leaving the front seat of his car, awarding the plaintiff $5,000 in damages. In this case the driver denied touching the plaintiff, and the plaintiff never reported the incident to law enforcement. Uber only learned of the incident 3 years later when the lawsuit was filed. From the article: &#8220;&#8216;The jury&#8217;s award here should further bring these cases back to reality, as it represents a tiny fraction of previous demands,&#8217; the Uber statement said, adding that the company has strong grounds for appeal because it believes the jury was incorrectly instructed on the question of liability.&#8221; These cases are considered &#8220;bellwether&#8221; cases that will impact what will likely be a large negotiated settlement between Uber and the collective group of plaintiffs (each plaintiff can individually opt out of the settlement, ultimately, if they choose). If we assume the average settlement is $150K, across 3,300 plaintiffs the total settlement would be $165m. Uber recently enabled a &#8220;woman-driver preferred&#8221; option as part of steps taken to address rider safety.</p></li><li><p><em>Bad AV Accident(s).</em> If we have an especially bad accident (or series of accidents) from AV partners operating on Uber, Uber could develop a reputation for unsafe AVs. Because Uber works with more partners (that are less proven than Waymo), Uber seems more at risk. While Uber is perhaps better positioned in that they would have other AV providers to work with if one provider&#8217;s tech was faulty (unlike Waymo), its unclear whether the average consumer would understand the nuance (i.e. &#8220;don&#8217;t worry &#8212; the faulty AVs are gone, the remaining AVs are safe&#8221;). </p></li><li><p><em>Waymo/Amazon buys Lyft.</em> If Waymo were to buy Lyft, you&#8217;d suddenly have a deep-pocketed, formidable #2 player in US mobility. Even worse might be if Amazon acquired Lyft. Then you&#8217;d have 3 deep-pocketed, formidable players. Reasons to not be as concerned: (1) if Waymo/Amazon bought Lyft, it would seemingly detract from their current advantage (that all cars are AVs), (2) human-drivers are likely not seen as the future at either Waymo or Zoox, and having to operate a hybrid offering would ratchet up the complexity of these businesses (both factors making a deal less likely), (3) Lyft only operates in the US and only in mobility, which limits its usefulness and (4) in the SF market share data, Lyft has been taking more of the market share damage vs. Uber, so Lyft might start to see real impairment to its business as Waymo and Uber ramp AVs over the coming years.</p></li></ul><div><hr></div><h2>Financial Performance</h2><h4>Ride/Delivery Economics</h4><p>Uber takes a cut of every &#8220;trip&#8221; (i.e. ride or delivery) that takes place on its marketplace. In the S-1, they provide example breakdowns of the economics of a trip.</p><p>The table below from Uber&#8217;s S-1 illustrates two different &#8220;ride&#8221; scenarios &#8212; without and with &#8220;excess driver incentives:&#8221;</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!P0t8!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8fc461c7-1928-423a-be16-6c79a11b18ba_2155x856.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!P0t8!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8fc461c7-1928-423a-be16-6c79a11b18ba_2155x856.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!P0t8!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8fc461c7-1928-423a-be16-6c79a11b18ba_2155x856.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!P0t8!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8fc461c7-1928-423a-be16-6c79a11b18ba_2155x856.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!P0t8!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8fc461c7-1928-423a-be16-6c79a11b18ba_2155x856.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!P0t8!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8fc461c7-1928-423a-be16-6c79a11b18ba_2155x856.png" width="1456" height="578" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/8fc461c7-1928-423a-be16-6c79a11b18ba_2155x856.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:578,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:694867,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/189172282?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8fc461c7-1928-423a-be16-6c79a11b18ba_2155x856.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!P0t8!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8fc461c7-1928-423a-be16-6c79a11b18ba_2155x856.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!P0t8!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8fc461c7-1928-423a-be16-6c79a11b18ba_2155x856.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!P0t8!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8fc461c7-1928-423a-be16-6c79a11b18ba_2155x856.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!P0t8!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8fc461c7-1928-423a-be16-6c79a11b18ba_2155x856.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>In this example, the total cost of the ride is $10.00, which is recorded as &#8220;gross bookings.&#8221; The driver earns $8.00 in the scenario without excess driver incentives, and $11.00 in the scenario with excess driver incentives, taking all of the cost of the ride (and then some). Uber records the first scenario as $2.00 of revenue to Uber (which represents a &#8220;take rate&#8221; of 20%). In the second scenario, no revenue is recorded (a &#8220;take rate&#8221; of 0%) and in addition to that, there is $1.00 of CoR (i.e. Uber loses money in this scenario).</p><p>Incentives are provided to drivers in order to balance supply (# of drivers/couriers) with demand (# of riders/consumers) on the platform at any given time. For example during peak rush hour, or during large scale events, Uber will increase its payouts to drivers in order to activate more drivers in its app (note that Uber will also implement &#8220;surge pricing&#8221; in order to recoup some/all of this excess payout; &#8220;surge pricing&#8221; also tamps down on rider demand to help balance supply/demand).</p><p>The table below from Uber&#8217;s S-1 illustrates the components of a delivery order:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ZDZg!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F068cae6e-ce7d-4278-80c3-30d277246641_1850x904.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ZDZg!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F068cae6e-ce7d-4278-80c3-30d277246641_1850x904.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ZDZg!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F068cae6e-ce7d-4278-80c3-30d277246641_1850x904.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ZDZg!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F068cae6e-ce7d-4278-80c3-30d277246641_1850x904.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ZDZg!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F068cae6e-ce7d-4278-80c3-30d277246641_1850x904.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ZDZg!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F068cae6e-ce7d-4278-80c3-30d277246641_1850x904.png" width="637" height="311.0625" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/068cae6e-ce7d-4278-80c3-30d277246641_1850x904.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:711,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:637,&quot;bytes&quot;:624906,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/189172282?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F068cae6e-ce7d-4278-80c3-30d277246641_1850x904.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ZDZg!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F068cae6e-ce7d-4278-80c3-30d277246641_1850x904.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ZDZg!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F068cae6e-ce7d-4278-80c3-30d277246641_1850x904.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ZDZg!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F068cae6e-ce7d-4278-80c3-30d277246641_1850x904.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ZDZg!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F068cae6e-ce7d-4278-80c3-30d277246641_1850x904.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>In this example, the total order value is $22.00 including food and delivery fees. This is recorded as &#8220;gross bookings.&#8221; Of the $18.00 that the restaurant is &#8220;owed,&#8221; they receive $13.50. Of the $4.00 that the courier is &#8220;owed,&#8221; they receive all $4.00 (and an additional $2.00 of &#8220;excess driver incentives&#8221;). Uber receives $2.50 in this scenario ($4.50 less the $2.00 in &#8220;excess driver incentives,&#8221; which is again recorded as CoR).  </p><p>Gross Bookings for Uber does not include tips (for both mobility and delivery).<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-31" href="#footnote-31" target="_self">31</a> This is actually not the case for DoorDash, which includes tips in its GOV (Gross Order Value).<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-32" href="#footnote-32" target="_self">32</a> Both Uber and DoorDash &#8220;pass through&#8221; 100% of tips to drivers/couriers. </p><p>Note that a couple of significant accounting changes took place following Uber&#8217;s IPO in 2019:</p><ul><li><p>In Q4&#8217;20, Uber began recognizing all &#8220;excess driver incentives&#8221; as revenue reduction, removing them from CoR. </p></li><li><p>Beginning in 2020, for certain markets where Uber was deemed the &#8220;merchant of record&#8221; and not simply an &#8220;agent&#8221; (primarily the UK, I believe), Uber began recognizing gross bookings as revenue and associated driver/courier costs as CoR. Over the 2021-2022 period, this materially boosted revenue growth rates and the overall &#8220;take rate,&#8221; though it compressed gross margins (no impact on bookings or overall profitability).<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-33" href="#footnote-33" target="_self">33</a></p></li><li><p>Further complicating things, beginning in Jan-26 following a UK tax law ruling, Uber decided to reclassify all of the UK (ex London) from the &#8220;merchant&#8221; model back to the &#8220;agent&#8221; model. This will have the opposite impact of before: revenue growth will slow, the overall &#8220;take rate&#8221; will decrease, but gross margins will increase (again, no impact on bookings or profitability)<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-34" href="#footnote-34" target="_self">34</a></p></li></ul><h4>Uber Financial Model</h4><p>The flow through from gross bookings to revenue is a little more complicated than the examples provided above. </p><p>The main differences are that (1) &#8220;market-wide promotions&#8221; including the discounts available under the Uber One membership program are also recorded as a reduction of revenue, as are (2) certain &#8220;refunds and credits&#8221; due to end-user dissatisfaction.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Ou_m!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff95a0936-5023-4e3e-ab49-9d7e0cad7529_1050x607.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Ou_m!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff95a0936-5023-4e3e-ab49-9d7e0cad7529_1050x607.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Ou_m!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff95a0936-5023-4e3e-ab49-9d7e0cad7529_1050x607.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Ou_m!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff95a0936-5023-4e3e-ab49-9d7e0cad7529_1050x607.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Ou_m!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff95a0936-5023-4e3e-ab49-9d7e0cad7529_1050x607.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Ou_m!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff95a0936-5023-4e3e-ab49-9d7e0cad7529_1050x607.png" width="1050" height="607" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/f95a0936-5023-4e3e-ab49-9d7e0cad7529_1050x607.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:607,&quot;width&quot;:1050,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:178653,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/189172282?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff95a0936-5023-4e3e-ab49-9d7e0cad7529_1050x607.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Ou_m!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff95a0936-5023-4e3e-ab49-9d7e0cad7529_1050x607.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Ou_m!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff95a0936-5023-4e3e-ab49-9d7e0cad7529_1050x607.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Ou_m!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff95a0936-5023-4e3e-ab49-9d7e0cad7529_1050x607.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Ou_m!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff95a0936-5023-4e3e-ab49-9d7e0cad7529_1050x607.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>&#8220;Cost of revenue&#8221; consists of primarily driver/courier costs for mobility/delivery transactions in markets where Uber is the &#8220;merchant of record,&#8221; insurance costs and credit card processing fees. CoR also includes data center and networking expenses, and mobile device and service costs.</p><p>Note that insurance costs (Uber provides &#8220;commercial&#8221; automotive liability insurance on behalf of its mobility/delivery drivers) are essentially a 100% &#8220;pass-through&#8221; item. This means that the cost of insurance is &#8220;priced-in&#8221; to the cost of a trip (thereby increasing gross bookings) but then deducted in the CoR line. Thus, rising insurance costs (they ratcheted up materially over the 2021-2024 timeframe) had the effect of optically increasing the take rate (when take rates are calculated as simply revenue/gross bookings). </p><p>&#8220;Operations &amp; support&#8221; primarily consists of expenses related to employees that support operations in cities, including general managers, driver operations, platform user support representatives and community managers.</p><p>&#8220;Sales &amp; marketing&#8221; primarily consist of advertising costs, product marketing costs, discounts, loyalty programs, promotions, refunds, and credits provided to end-users who are not customers, compensation costs to sales and marketing employees, and the allocation of certain corporate costs.</p><p>&#8220;Research &amp; development&#8221; primarily consists of compensation costs for employees in engineering, design and product development. In the earlier years, Uber&#8217;s ATG effort (i.e. it&#8217;s self-driving initiative) was recorded primarily in R&amp;D (this business was divested in Dec-20). Substantially all R&amp;D is expensed as occurred.</p><h4>Gross Bookings</h4><p>Gross bookings have ~5.5x&#8217;d since 2017. This represents a 24% CAGR over 8 years.</p><p>As we can see below, a big driver of this has been delivery bookings, which increased by over 30x over this period (vs. mobility, which increased by roughly 3x). </p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!jXh1!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0c9c8527-5864-4bc5-96de-f78b9ad6bdec_1812x2006.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!jXh1!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0c9c8527-5864-4bc5-96de-f78b9ad6bdec_1812x2006.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!jXh1!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0c9c8527-5864-4bc5-96de-f78b9ad6bdec_1812x2006.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!jXh1!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0c9c8527-5864-4bc5-96de-f78b9ad6bdec_1812x2006.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!jXh1!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0c9c8527-5864-4bc5-96de-f78b9ad6bdec_1812x2006.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!jXh1!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0c9c8527-5864-4bc5-96de-f78b9ad6bdec_1812x2006.png" width="700" height="775" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/0c9c8527-5864-4bc5-96de-f78b9ad6bdec_1812x2006.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1612,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:700,&quot;bytes&quot;:194307,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/189172282?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0c9c8527-5864-4bc5-96de-f78b9ad6bdec_1812x2006.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!jXh1!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0c9c8527-5864-4bc5-96de-f78b9ad6bdec_1812x2006.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!jXh1!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0c9c8527-5864-4bc5-96de-f78b9ad6bdec_1812x2006.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!jXh1!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0c9c8527-5864-4bc5-96de-f78b9ad6bdec_1812x2006.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!jXh1!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0c9c8527-5864-4bc5-96de-f78b9ad6bdec_1812x2006.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Prior to the DH acquisition, gross bookings was split 50%/47%/3% between mobility, delivery and freight, respectively. Including the impact of Delivery Hero, total bookings were $235bn in 2025, with 41%/56%/2% coming from mobility, delivery and freight, respectively.</p><p>Both sides of the business have performed well over the last three years, with CAGRs of 23% and 18% for mobility and delivery, respectively. Much of Uber&#8217;s growth can be boiled down to (1) strong user growth and (2) more spend per user. Encouragingly, both factors continue to exhibit healthy trends, as detailed below.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-35" href="#footnote-35" target="_self">35</a><a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-36" href="#footnote-36" target="_self">36</a><a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-37" href="#footnote-37" target="_self">37</a></p><p>Strong user growth has resulted from a broad set of factors, including: (1) expansion into new countries (like Japan, South Korea, Germany, Spain, Turkey and Argentina), (2) a much stronger focus on the suburbs (an effort boosted by new products like &#8220;reserve&#8221; and &#8220;wait &amp; save&#8221;), (3) expansion into younger and older demographics, (4) affordability initiatives (including Uber One and new products like &#8220;Moto,&#8221; a two-wheeler product for emerging markets) and (5) new products like Uber for Business (U4B generates ~$5bn in annualized bookings and is growing 45% YoY as of Q1&#8217;26).</p><p>More spend per user has also resulted from a broad set of factors, including: (1) driving multi-product usage (Uber, Uber Eats, groceries, retail), (2) Uber One, which drives higher trip frequency and better retention, and (3) a higher quality product (for Uber Eats, that means shorter delivery times, more merchants on the platform, etc.).</p><h4>MAPCs (Monthly Active Platform Consumers) / Uber One Members</h4><p>Growth in MAPCs and growth in Uber One members has been very healthy.</p><p>MAPCs have grown at a 16% CAGR over the last three years, and growth actually accelerated in 2025 to 18%. Meanwhile the number of Uber One members has grown at a 3-year CAGR of 57% (Uber One was only recently introduced in 2021). Uber One members hit 46mm in 2025, and impressively maintained a growth rate north of 50% in 2025.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!wba-!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F64c9a3b0-ca05-4ea7-a3ed-e2883053efc2_1806x1654.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!wba-!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F64c9a3b0-ca05-4ea7-a3ed-e2883053efc2_1806x1654.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!wba-!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F64c9a3b0-ca05-4ea7-a3ed-e2883053efc2_1806x1654.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!wba-!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F64c9a3b0-ca05-4ea7-a3ed-e2883053efc2_1806x1654.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!wba-!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F64c9a3b0-ca05-4ea7-a3ed-e2883053efc2_1806x1654.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!wba-!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F64c9a3b0-ca05-4ea7-a3ed-e2883053efc2_1806x1654.png" width="653" height="597.8358516483516" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/64c9a3b0-ca05-4ea7-a3ed-e2883053efc2_1806x1654.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1333,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:653,&quot;bytes&quot;:121308,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/189172282?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F64c9a3b0-ca05-4ea7-a3ed-e2883053efc2_1806x1654.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!wba-!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F64c9a3b0-ca05-4ea7-a3ed-e2883053efc2_1806x1654.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!wba-!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F64c9a3b0-ca05-4ea7-a3ed-e2883053efc2_1806x1654.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!wba-!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F64c9a3b0-ca05-4ea7-a3ed-e2883053efc2_1806x1654.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!wba-!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F64c9a3b0-ca05-4ea7-a3ed-e2883053efc2_1806x1654.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Delivery Hero brings another 49mm MAPCs. If we assume there is 20% overlap with existing Uber mobility users, and that 1/3rd of the remaining MAPCs convert to Uber One members, then in theory, DH would generate another ~13mm Uber One members.</p><p>Uber One members now represent just under 50% of total bookings on the Uber platform. This is up from just 25% in 2022.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4uhR!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F556fceb0-924f-477f-9590-e65e066f4c6f_1318x1126.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4uhR!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F556fceb0-924f-477f-9590-e65e066f4c6f_1318x1126.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4uhR!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F556fceb0-924f-477f-9590-e65e066f4c6f_1318x1126.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4uhR!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F556fceb0-924f-477f-9590-e65e066f4c6f_1318x1126.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4uhR!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F556fceb0-924f-477f-9590-e65e066f4c6f_1318x1126.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4uhR!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F556fceb0-924f-477f-9590-e65e066f4c6f_1318x1126.png" width="525" height="448.52048558421853" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/556fceb0-924f-477f-9590-e65e066f4c6f_1318x1126.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1126,&quot;width&quot;:1318,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:525,&quot;bytes&quot;:59505,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/189172282?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F556fceb0-924f-477f-9590-e65e066f4c6f_1318x1126.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4uhR!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F556fceb0-924f-477f-9590-e65e066f4c6f_1318x1126.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4uhR!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F556fceb0-924f-477f-9590-e65e066f4c6f_1318x1126.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4uhR!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F556fceb0-924f-477f-9590-e65e066f4c6f_1318x1126.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4uhR!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F556fceb0-924f-477f-9590-e65e066f4c6f_1318x1126.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>The number of monthly &#8220;trips&#8221; (deliveries + rides) per MAPC (a measure of trip &#8220;frequency&#8221;) shows a healthy looking trend as well.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!_qwX!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc41e03a6-ed05-4c05-a11c-12eabac41d75_1599x1121.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!_qwX!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc41e03a6-ed05-4c05-a11c-12eabac41d75_1599x1121.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!_qwX!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc41e03a6-ed05-4c05-a11c-12eabac41d75_1599x1121.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!_qwX!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc41e03a6-ed05-4c05-a11c-12eabac41d75_1599x1121.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!_qwX!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc41e03a6-ed05-4c05-a11c-12eabac41d75_1599x1121.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!_qwX!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc41e03a6-ed05-4c05-a11c-12eabac41d75_1599x1121.png" width="625" height="438.27266483516485" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/c41e03a6-ed05-4c05-a11c-12eabac41d75_1599x1121.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1021,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:625,&quot;bytes&quot;:63401,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/189172282?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc41e03a6-ed05-4c05-a11c-12eabac41d75_1599x1121.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!_qwX!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc41e03a6-ed05-4c05-a11c-12eabac41d75_1599x1121.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!_qwX!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc41e03a6-ed05-4c05-a11c-12eabac41d75_1599x1121.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!_qwX!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc41e03a6-ed05-4c05-a11c-12eabac41d75_1599x1121.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!_qwX!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc41e03a6-ed05-4c05-a11c-12eabac41d75_1599x1121.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>There is headroom to increase MAPCs and trip frequency much further. </p><p>Firstly, only ~5% of the adult population across Uber&#8217;s current operating footprint are Uber MAPCs.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-38" href="#footnote-38" target="_self">38</a> For Uber&#8217;s top markets, the number is closer to 15%.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-39" href="#footnote-39" target="_self">39</a></p><p>On top of this, in terms of trip frequency, 50% of MAPCs only use Uber once or twice per month, per the company&#8217;s 2024 investor day. COO Andrew Macdonald on <em><a href="https://youtu.be/N6t0o-46pW4?t=371">The Compound</a></em> claimed that in Uber&#8217;s best markets, monthly trips are around 9 (vs. ~6 across all markets), and that for the top decile of customers in Uber&#8217;s top markets, monthly trips are 20+.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-40" href="#footnote-40" target="_self">40</a> Meituan, the top delivery player in China, apparently generates around ~9 trips per month.</p><p>Lastly, the percentage of users who use both Uber and Uber Eats together is only around 20%. All of these metrics could seemingly go materially higher.</p><h4>Revenue</h4><p>Revenue has grown at a slightly faster overall clip than gross bookings, ~6.5x&#8217;ing overall since 2017 (representing a CAGR of 27%).</p><p>While, pre DH, mobility/delivery was split roughly 50/50 in terms of bookings, on a revenue basis the split was closer to 67/33 in favor of mobility. I believe the difference mostly arises from: (1) mobility having a slightly higher &#8220;true&#8221; take rate vs. delivery, (2) higher insurance costs for mobility, and (3) mobility having a higher proportion of revenue where Uber is deemed the &#8220;principal,&#8221; requiring Uber to recognize bookings as revenue.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!cWSC!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9273c838-ef92-4553-aaa8-3d676c321e00_1812x2032.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!cWSC!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9273c838-ef92-4553-aaa8-3d676c321e00_1812x2032.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!cWSC!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9273c838-ef92-4553-aaa8-3d676c321e00_1812x2032.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!cWSC!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9273c838-ef92-4553-aaa8-3d676c321e00_1812x2032.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!cWSC!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9273c838-ef92-4553-aaa8-3d676c321e00_1812x2032.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!cWSC!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9273c838-ef92-4553-aaa8-3d676c321e00_1812x2032.png" width="701" height="786.2177197802198" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/9273c838-ef92-4553-aaa8-3d676c321e00_1812x2032.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1633,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:701,&quot;bytes&quot;:204619,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/189172282?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9273c838-ef92-4553-aaa8-3d676c321e00_1812x2032.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!cWSC!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9273c838-ef92-4553-aaa8-3d676c321e00_1812x2032.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!cWSC!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9273c838-ef92-4553-aaa8-3d676c321e00_1812x2032.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!cWSC!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9273c838-ef92-4553-aaa8-3d676c321e00_1812x2032.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!cWSC!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9273c838-ef92-4553-aaa8-3d676c321e00_1812x2032.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>While mobility growth has outpaced delivery growth over the last three years, delivery growth of 25% in 2025 significantly outpaced mobility growth of 18%.</p><p>Below is a breakdown of revenue by geo. We can see the US grew the slowest of all Uber&#8217;s geographies (by a wide margin) in 2025 at 11%. EMEA (especially non-UK EMEA) was particularly strong, growing 31%.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OSwR!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcff4128f-39a3-4c41-8852-4cd84a895cc7_1708x2588.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OSwR!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcff4128f-39a3-4c41-8852-4cd84a895cc7_1708x2588.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OSwR!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcff4128f-39a3-4c41-8852-4cd84a895cc7_1708x2588.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OSwR!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcff4128f-39a3-4c41-8852-4cd84a895cc7_1708x2588.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OSwR!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcff4128f-39a3-4c41-8852-4cd84a895cc7_1708x2588.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OSwR!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcff4128f-39a3-4c41-8852-4cd84a895cc7_1708x2588.png" width="701" height="1062.092032967033" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/cff4128f-39a3-4c41-8852-4cd84a895cc7_1708x2588.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:2206,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:701,&quot;bytes&quot;:275731,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/189172282?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcff4128f-39a3-4c41-8852-4cd84a895cc7_1708x2588.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OSwR!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcff4128f-39a3-4c41-8852-4cd84a895cc7_1708x2588.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OSwR!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcff4128f-39a3-4c41-8852-4cd84a895cc7_1708x2588.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OSwR!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcff4128f-39a3-4c41-8852-4cd84a895cc7_1708x2588.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OSwR!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcff4128f-39a3-4c41-8852-4cd84a895cc7_1708x2588.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>The US is likely growing the slowest simply because it is the most mature of the geos. Many of these other regions have countries where Uber was relatively slow to penetrate, oftentimes for regulatory reasons. Many of these countries have enjoyed outsized growth, as shown in the slide below from Uber&#8217;s 2024 investor day:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!X_ip!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F81c8d886-73f0-4e60-ad56-b2cb00ddc29e_1011x556.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!X_ip!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F81c8d886-73f0-4e60-ad56-b2cb00ddc29e_1011x556.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!X_ip!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F81c8d886-73f0-4e60-ad56-b2cb00ddc29e_1011x556.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!X_ip!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F81c8d886-73f0-4e60-ad56-b2cb00ddc29e_1011x556.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!X_ip!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F81c8d886-73f0-4e60-ad56-b2cb00ddc29e_1011x556.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!X_ip!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F81c8d886-73f0-4e60-ad56-b2cb00ddc29e_1011x556.png" width="1011" height="556" 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F81c8d886-73f0-4e60-ad56-b2cb00ddc29e_1011x556.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!X_ip!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F81c8d886-73f0-4e60-ad56-b2cb00ddc29e_1011x556.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!X_ip!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F81c8d886-73f0-4e60-ad56-b2cb00ddc29e_1011x556.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!X_ip!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F81c8d886-73f0-4e60-ad56-b2cb00ddc29e_1011x556.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>I also think geos where Uber enjoys high market share in both mobility and delivery (EMEA, Canada) are likely getting a boost.</p><p>If we include the impact of Delivery Hero, US revenue as a percentage of total revenue declines to 37% (from 46%).</p><p>We can see that &#8220;take rates&#8221; (calculated as revenue/gross bookings) dipped in 2020 before recovering in subsequent years. For mobility, take rates jumped to a materially higher level beginning in 2022.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!c6GK!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4cab318b-3e78-4439-9488-38592672d300_1650x1269.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!c6GK!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4cab318b-3e78-4439-9488-38592672d300_1650x1269.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!c6GK!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4cab318b-3e78-4439-9488-38592672d300_1650x1269.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!c6GK!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4cab318b-3e78-4439-9488-38592672d300_1650x1269.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!c6GK!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4cab318b-3e78-4439-9488-38592672d300_1650x1269.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!c6GK!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4cab318b-3e78-4439-9488-38592672d300_1650x1269.png" width="648" height="498.46153846153845" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/4cab318b-3e78-4439-9488-38592672d300_1650x1269.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1120,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:648,&quot;bytes&quot;:128945,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/189172282?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4cab318b-3e78-4439-9488-38592672d300_1650x1269.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!c6GK!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4cab318b-3e78-4439-9488-38592672d300_1650x1269.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!c6GK!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4cab318b-3e78-4439-9488-38592672d300_1650x1269.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!c6GK!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4cab318b-3e78-4439-9488-38592672d300_1650x1269.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!c6GK!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4cab318b-3e78-4439-9488-38592672d300_1650x1269.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>The dip in take rates in 2020-2021 was likely caused by increased driver incentives to boost driver supply coming out of COVID (which would have reduced revenue).<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-41" href="#footnote-41" target="_self">41</a> As driver incentives abated, take rates would have recovered. However, on the mobility side, take rates rose to higher levels than the pre-COVID period, likely as a result of the accounting policy changes in the UK related to Uber being deemed the &#8220;merchant of record.&#8221; Higher mobility take rates would have also been driven by increases in insurance costs, which surged during the 2021-2024 period.</p><p>Note that the calculated take rates are muddied by the factors discussed above. Management oftentimes refers to ~20% as a more accurate representation of the &#8220;true&#8221; take rate across both business lines. </p><p>For example, here is Dara on the <em>HD in HD</em> podcast (Nov-25):</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;The company does about, we&#8217;ll [say a] run rate of $200 billion. <strong>Our take rate there, our &#8216;true&#8217; take rate &#8212; because the accounting is a little funky &#8212; is probably 20%.</strong> So that&#8217;s about you know call it $40 billion that we uh bring into revenue and profitability off of that is probably $8.5 to $9 billion.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><h4>Gross Margin</h4><p>Gross margins stepped down during the 2020-2022 period and have settled into the ~40% range.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!f-9e!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6ff5e03c-8039-4f4c-9b98-194fe488c4dd_1650x1306.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!f-9e!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6ff5e03c-8039-4f4c-9b98-194fe488c4dd_1650x1306.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!f-9e!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6ff5e03c-8039-4f4c-9b98-194fe488c4dd_1650x1306.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!f-9e!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6ff5e03c-8039-4f4c-9b98-194fe488c4dd_1650x1306.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!f-9e!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6ff5e03c-8039-4f4c-9b98-194fe488c4dd_1650x1306.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!f-9e!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6ff5e03c-8039-4f4c-9b98-194fe488c4dd_1650x1306.png" width="649" height="513.4945054945055" 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6ff5e03c-8039-4f4c-9b98-194fe488c4dd_1650x1306.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!f-9e!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6ff5e03c-8039-4f4c-9b98-194fe488c4dd_1650x1306.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!f-9e!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6ff5e03c-8039-4f4c-9b98-194fe488c4dd_1650x1306.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!f-9e!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6ff5e03c-8039-4f4c-9b98-194fe488c4dd_1650x1306.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>I believe the step up in GMs in 2020 was likely due to the reclassification of &#8220;excess driver incentives&#8221; from CoR to a contra-revenue item. The step down from 2020-2022 was driven by the impact of the UK merchant-of-record changes. Finally, over the last four years, it&#8217;s likely that surging insurance costs weighed on GMs (higher insurance costs increases both revenue and CoR by the same dollar amount). </p><h4>Opex</h4><p>Uber has demonstrated pretty remarkable operating leverage on its opex lines.</p><p>As we can see below, across each functional area, opex has decreased materially as a percentage of revenue.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!2FlZ!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F54c93da4-d7dd-4b98-87ea-6309d1d27c1a_1649x1455.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!2FlZ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F54c93da4-d7dd-4b98-87ea-6309d1d27c1a_1649x1455.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!2FlZ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F54c93da4-d7dd-4b98-87ea-6309d1d27c1a_1649x1455.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!2FlZ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F54c93da4-d7dd-4b98-87ea-6309d1d27c1a_1649x1455.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!2FlZ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F54c93da4-d7dd-4b98-87ea-6309d1d27c1a_1649x1455.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!2FlZ!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F54c93da4-d7dd-4b98-87ea-6309d1d27c1a_1649x1455.png" width="699" height="616.9059065934066" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/54c93da4-d7dd-4b98-87ea-6309d1d27c1a_1649x1455.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1285,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:699,&quot;bytes&quot;:191956,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/189172282?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F54c93da4-d7dd-4b98-87ea-6309d1d27c1a_1649x1455.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!2FlZ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F54c93da4-d7dd-4b98-87ea-6309d1d27c1a_1649x1455.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!2FlZ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F54c93da4-d7dd-4b98-87ea-6309d1d27c1a_1649x1455.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!2FlZ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F54c93da4-d7dd-4b98-87ea-6309d1d27c1a_1649x1455.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!2FlZ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F54c93da4-d7dd-4b98-87ea-6309d1d27c1a_1649x1455.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>The categories demonstrating the most leverage have been S&amp;M and G&amp;A which have decreased from 32%&#8594;9% and 29%&#8594;6%, respectively, since 2017.</p><p>Below are the opex buckets on a dollar-basis. Starting in 2023, we can see a major deceleration of opex spend. Total opex has grown by just a 3% CAGR since 2022!</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!lL24!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F7743acc1-500c-4330-9037-646b3ea5c435_1813x1928.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!lL24!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F7743acc1-500c-4330-9037-646b3ea5c435_1813x1928.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!lL24!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F7743acc1-500c-4330-9037-646b3ea5c435_1813x1928.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!lL24!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F7743acc1-500c-4330-9037-646b3ea5c435_1813x1928.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!lL24!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F7743acc1-500c-4330-9037-646b3ea5c435_1813x1928.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!lL24!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F7743acc1-500c-4330-9037-646b3ea5c435_1813x1928.png" width="727" height="772.9368131868132" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/7743acc1-500c-4330-9037-646b3ea5c435_1813x1928.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1548,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:727,&quot;bytes&quot;:201551,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/189172282?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F7743acc1-500c-4330-9037-646b3ea5c435_1813x1928.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!lL24!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F7743acc1-500c-4330-9037-646b3ea5c435_1813x1928.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!lL24!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F7743acc1-500c-4330-9037-646b3ea5c435_1813x1928.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!lL24!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F7743acc1-500c-4330-9037-646b3ea5c435_1813x1928.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!lL24!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F7743acc1-500c-4330-9037-646b3ea5c435_1813x1928.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>This operating leverage has resulted, in part, from (1) the end of ZIRP-era incentives (equivalent to raising prices), (2) a highly scalable model with relatively low variable costs, (3) savings generated by automation and driving marketplace efficiencies (e.g. better matching, bundling), and (4) the growth of Uber&#8217;s highly profitable advertising business.</p><p>Here is Dara from an Oct-25 Decoder interview on Uber&#8217;s ZIRP-era spend:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;Travis would hire a GM, parachute them into a market. And you&#8217;re right, we did go out and buy supply and really we are as a company a supply-led company. Which is first, you build liquid supply, then you invest in demand. You have to, in the early days, you essentially have to price under-market and you lose a bunch of money in a market. <strong>As liquidity increases and the matches increase and the efficiency of the market increases, you can start pulling more profits from a marketplace. That was essentially the formula.</strong> </em></p><p><em>And it might have seemed crazy at the time, but I think that Travis and the founding team got it right, which is creating liquidity in the marketplace is exactly what allowed you to get to profitability. And whoever created the liquidity of supply and demand fastest was the one who ultimately won. So in the early days it was all GMs, spend a ton of money on liquidity.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>As ZIRP spend petered out, Uber was able to price more rationally. They could essentially charge customers a little more (or use less incentives) and pay drivers a bit less (or use less incentives). Impressively, the company has been able to sustain very healthy growth through this process (including strong user growth).</p><p>Management would also tell you they&#8217;ve been able to generate operational efficiencies through the use of technology/automation. Here is Dara from a Nov-25 <em>HD in HD</em> podcast:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;I do think that ourselves and a bunch of other companies went through a phase where capital was a weapon. And basically it was about how much money can you raise in order to spend to capture markets. And having an enormous amount of capital to spend actually hurts operating discipline because it&#8217;s painful to optimize these businesses.</em></p><p><em>If you build an incredible algorithm that is able to predict demand versus, let&#8217;s say, can [just] match [existing] demand in a market&#8230;That&#8217;s one little product that the team has has built. It&#8217;s actually a pretty cool product. That kind of [thing] can bring, let&#8217;s say, 1% [greater] efficiency into a market. And then you have 15 of those projects and lo and behold, you&#8217;re growing the company at attractive rates. </em></p><p><em>In the early days, someone would throw a hundred million dollars into the market and all of that work would be blown away. So, to some extent, the excess capital actually worked against excellent operations. And so for me, the art was pulling the capital back over a period and then driving excellent operations and efficiency across the company. And it&#8217;s something that we&#8217;ve been able to do now which is we&#8217;re able to keep innovating&#8230;and at the same time have a bottom line that grows significantly in excess of our top line&#8230;</em></p><p><em><strong>I would say the pattern for Uber over the past 6, 7 years is using technology to allow us to essentially automate a bunch of, call it, overhead functions. And improve customer service, reduce error rates, match more effectively, price more effectively. If you&#8217;re able to use tech to do so, you can grow revenue without growing your overhead</strong>.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>Here is Dara from a Jun-23 <em>Acquired</em> podcast discussing how the company uses ML to to enhance Uber&#8217;s pricing/matching engine:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;I think we&#8217;re in the scale business&#8230;One of the secret sauces that we have is we have a very large and capable marketplace team. These are ML engineers who are building out the systems that match price, all of this connectivity. And when you&#8217;re working over an ecosystem of two billion transactions a quarter, the data sets that we have, the experimentation that we can do in terms of what&#8217;s the most optimal match, how do you price, etc. It&#8217;s just a bigger database than anyone else. <strong>So every year matching and pricing probably improves by five percent. So you improve your the marketplace throughput by about five percent, everything else being the same, and that&#8217;s like free growth.</strong> And when it&#8217;s on top of call it $120, $130 billion dollar run rate, it gets big and, again it&#8217;s compounding. Every year this machinery gets better.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>How does this ML engine help Uber in practice? </p><p>One example is an ability to bundle more deliveries. As the marketplace gets more liquid and as algorithms improve, Uber is better able to match couriers on two (or more) deliveries at a time instead of one (currently about half of deliveries are &#8220;batched&#8221; per Jun-26 <em>Invest Like the Best</em> podcast). When two orders are batched, Uber can afford to pay the courier more, but not quite as much as what Uber would have to pay for two orders delivered separately. The total value of the order does not change, however, so Uber can pocket the difference. This is a very important generator of profits for a food delivery business.</p><p>Another example is the ability to improve &#8220;bidding.&#8221; When a delivery order comes in, or a ride is requested, Uber will send out bids to drivers/couriers until one of them accepts. Uber needs to decide who is the best person to send a bid to first, then second, third, etc. Uber also needs to decide how much to offer for each bid. Here is Dara describing this process on a Oct-25 <em>Decoder</em> podcast.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-42" href="#footnote-42" target="_self">42</a> A more liquid marketplace and better matching/pricing algorithms lets Uber squeeze a bit more profitability out of every transaction. </p><h4>EBITDA/Operating Margin</h4><p>The result of strong revenue growth and flattish opex spend has been an inflection in margins. Uber has rather steadily (COVID interruption notwithstanding) increased its EBITDA margin from -33% in 2017 to 17% in 2025.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!6t9y!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8d971a21-ff35-4e41-8a4d-400f39521e4f_1650x1283.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!6t9y!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8d971a21-ff35-4e41-8a4d-400f39521e4f_1650x1283.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!6t9y!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8d971a21-ff35-4e41-8a4d-400f39521e4f_1650x1283.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!6t9y!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8d971a21-ff35-4e41-8a4d-400f39521e4f_1650x1283.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!6t9y!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8d971a21-ff35-4e41-8a4d-400f39521e4f_1650x1283.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!6t9y!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8d971a21-ff35-4e41-8a4d-400f39521e4f_1650x1283.png" width="650" height="505.35714285714283" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/8d971a21-ff35-4e41-8a4d-400f39521e4f_1650x1283.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1132,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:650,&quot;bytes&quot;:78824,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/189172282?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8d971a21-ff35-4e41-8a4d-400f39521e4f_1650x1283.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!6t9y!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8d971a21-ff35-4e41-8a4d-400f39521e4f_1650x1283.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!6t9y!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8d971a21-ff35-4e41-8a4d-400f39521e4f_1650x1283.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!6t9y!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8d971a21-ff35-4e41-8a4d-400f39521e4f_1650x1283.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!6t9y!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8d971a21-ff35-4e41-8a4d-400f39521e4f_1650x1283.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>The Delivery Hero business, once synergies are fully realized, stands to generate a ~19%+ EBITDA margin by my math. Thus, the business should be slightly accretive to margins.</p><p>Looking at EBITDA by business line, we can see that the majority of profitability was generated by mobility, pre DH. Mobility generated an EBITDA margin of 27% in 2025, while delivery generated a 21% margin.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OYMc!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fec245bcf-175d-4476-96ba-c95da056e25a_1665x1839.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OYMc!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fec245bcf-175d-4476-96ba-c95da056e25a_1665x1839.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OYMc!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fec245bcf-175d-4476-96ba-c95da056e25a_1665x1839.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OYMc!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fec245bcf-175d-4476-96ba-c95da056e25a_1665x1839.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OYMc!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fec245bcf-175d-4476-96ba-c95da056e25a_1665x1839.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OYMc!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fec245bcf-175d-4476-96ba-c95da056e25a_1665x1839.png" width="649" height="716.7527472527472" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/ec245bcf-175d-4476-96ba-c95da056e25a_1665x1839.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1608,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:649,&quot;bytes&quot;:181043,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/189172282?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fec245bcf-175d-4476-96ba-c95da056e25a_1665x1839.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OYMc!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fec245bcf-175d-4476-96ba-c95da056e25a_1665x1839.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OYMc!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fec245bcf-175d-4476-96ba-c95da056e25a_1665x1839.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OYMc!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fec245bcf-175d-4476-96ba-c95da056e25a_1665x1839.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OYMc!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fec245bcf-175d-4476-96ba-c95da056e25a_1665x1839.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Rising delivery margins, however, have been driving much of the inflection in overall profitability as we can see above.</p><p>If we add Delivery Hero&#8217;s ~$2.2bn est. EBITDA post synergies, we get to ~$11.0bn in combined EBITDA. Of that, ~$5.8bn would come from delivery and ~$7.9bn from mobility (less $2.7bn in corporate G&amp;A and platform R&amp;D).</p><p>At the 2024 investor day, the company provided us with an interesting look at profitability by business line by market (for their top 10 markets).</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Bu1y!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F56b08fa2-3632-409b-ab36-954e7182c6df_1091x601.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Bu1y!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, 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/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Bu1y!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F56b08fa2-3632-409b-ab36-954e7182c6df_1091x601.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Bu1y!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F56b08fa2-3632-409b-ab36-954e7182c6df_1091x601.png" width="1091" height="601" 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F56b08fa2-3632-409b-ab36-954e7182c6df_1091x601.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Bu1y!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F56b08fa2-3632-409b-ab36-954e7182c6df_1091x601.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Bu1y!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F56b08fa2-3632-409b-ab36-954e7182c6df_1091x601.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Bu1y!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F56b08fa2-3632-409b-ab36-954e7182c6df_1091x601.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Almost every geo was profitable at the time and almost every geo also improved margins over the preceding 2 years (note this chart shows EBITDA margin as a percentage of gross bookings, not as a percentage of revenue). However, there were still considerable differences in profitability by geo. For example on the mobility side, Uber had both a handful of markets in the ~10% range as well as some that were breakeven (India? Brazil?). Similarly, on the delivery side, Uber had a couple markets in the ~7% range, but most clustered in the 0-2% range.</p><p>The profitability of a market depends, in part, on a few things: (1) the maturity of a market (i.e. how much money competitors are &#8220;investing&#8221; to compete and gain share), (2) Uber&#8217;s competitive position within a market, (3) product mix (grocery, for example, is currently a money-losing offering; as is Route Share and Moto on the mobility side), and (4) for delivery, the level of ad monetization.</p><p>Here is commentary from a Mar-24 Morgan Stanley conference:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;So it&#8217;s a combination of, I&#8217;d say, the maturity of the market, competitive position in the market and then especially product mix. So there are a couple of markets on Delivery, where the grocery business is actually quite large compared to the online food delivery business. We&#8217;re still investing. We&#8217;re still in investment mode on the grocery business. On average, margins are negative in grocery. So in the markets where grocery has -- in some of these markets where grocery has very high penetration, the overall market can be negative. But again, as long as grocery margins move in the right direction, we think will mix into positive for those markets as well.</em></p><p><em>And then there are a couple of markets where, from a competitive standpoint, we&#8217;re not the #1 player yet, let&#8217;s say, in Delivery. And there are 3 players who were vying for the #1 position. And the fortunate position that we&#8217;re in is, because we&#8217;re #1 in a bunch of markets, we have some excess margins that we can reinvest in these markets to grow at outsized rates and hopefully get to the top category position.</em></p><p><em><strong>So that, typically, is either product mix or its competitive position that we&#8217;re aiming for that account for the margins.</strong> But we&#8217;re quite &#8212; this is &#8212; it&#8217;s a pretty mature model at this point. And based on various take rates and based on product mix, we&#8217;re quite confident that we can get every single country that we operate in into EBITDA &#8212; solid EBITDA positive margins.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>Here is additional commentary from a 2017 NYT Dealbook conference:</p><blockquote><p>Interviewer: &#8220;<em>Let&#8217;s talk about the operational business itself. And part of an IPO I imagine &#8212; I don&#8217;t know if you get there by then &#8212; but how do you make this company profitable? There has been an argument made over the years given all the capital that&#8217;s come to you and so many of your competitors that we are all having our rides home and elsewhere subsidized by the venture capital community and that there may very well never be a day where the math actually adds up.&#8221;</em></p><p>DK: &#8220;<em><strong>That day is today because the math is actually working in certain areas and in certain geographies.</strong> So if you look at the portfolio of the business, there are certain markets such as the Asia Pacific markets &#8212; if you look at Southeast Asia or India where we are in heavy, heavy investment mode and appropriately so. And we lose money. The bigger the company gets, the more money we lose because we&#8217;re actually subsidizing those rides. But we have been able to demonstrate a track record &#8212; and you&#8217;ve got to look in the numbers and look in the geographies that where over a period of time we can pull back on the subsidies &#8212; and over a period of time get into a position of profitability on a geographic business. It doesn&#8217;t happen everywhere, but I think that we can certainly demonstrate it.</em> </p><p><em>What&#8217;s the key and what&#8217;s the timeframe for that to happen? It depends on the market and it depends on the competitive dynamics in the marketplace. To some extent the larger the market, the longer you want to subsidize that market, because the ultimate target as far as the rides market or the delivery market is so big that you want to actually juice that business. So it depends. It also depends on the competitive nature of the business. The US is very, very competitive right now between us and Lyft, so I don&#8217;t see the US as being a particularly profitable market for the next six months. We&#8217;ll see what happens after six months. Depends on where the competition goes. Right now we have a situation where a competitor, Lyft, is spending very, very aggressively in order to gain share.&#8221;</em> </p></blockquote><p>Uber is still in &#8220;investment mode&#8221; across a number of its geos and products. Presumably, at least according to the chart above, if/when these markets/products &#8220;mature,&#8221; Uber still has a good amount of headroom to grow margins from this alone. </p><p>Here is the full Net Income to adjusted EBITDA (to non-GAAP operating income) bridge:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!n4gt!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F62090b24-312a-4755-a982-b988606ef446_3039x2268.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!n4gt!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F62090b24-312a-4755-a982-b988606ef446_3039x2268.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!n4gt!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F62090b24-312a-4755-a982-b988606ef446_3039x2268.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!n4gt!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F62090b24-312a-4755-a982-b988606ef446_3039x2268.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!n4gt!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F62090b24-312a-4755-a982-b988606ef446_3039x2268.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!n4gt!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F62090b24-312a-4755-a982-b988606ef446_3039x2268.png" width="1456" height="1087" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/62090b24-312a-4755-a982-b988606ef446_3039x2268.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1087,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:1055984,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/189172282?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F62090b24-312a-4755-a982-b988606ef446_3039x2268.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!n4gt!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F62090b24-312a-4755-a982-b988606ef446_3039x2268.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!n4gt!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F62090b24-312a-4755-a982-b988606ef446_3039x2268.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!n4gt!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F62090b24-312a-4755-a982-b988606ef446_3039x2268.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!n4gt!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F62090b24-312a-4755-a982-b988606ef446_3039x2268.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Beginning in Q1&#8217;26, Uber will no longer report adjusted EBITDA. Instead it will report the non-GAAP operating income metric above. This metric actually accounts for (i.e. subtracts) both depreciation and SBC (huzzah!). </p><h4>Free Cash Flow</h4><p>Uber generated $9.8bn of FCF in 2025, or 19% of revenue. This is up sharply from Uber&#8217;s FCF nadir of -$4.9bn in 2019.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4SkC!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd1942165-a40e-4572-a520-52c454a5a1e3_1665x1693.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4SkC!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd1942165-a40e-4572-a520-52c454a5a1e3_1665x1693.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4SkC!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd1942165-a40e-4572-a520-52c454a5a1e3_1665x1693.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4SkC!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd1942165-a40e-4572-a520-52c454a5a1e3_1665x1693.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4SkC!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd1942165-a40e-4572-a520-52c454a5a1e3_1665x1693.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4SkC!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd1942165-a40e-4572-a520-52c454a5a1e3_1665x1693.png" width="650" height="660.7142857142857" 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd1942165-a40e-4572-a520-52c454a5a1e3_1665x1693.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4SkC!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd1942165-a40e-4572-a520-52c454a5a1e3_1665x1693.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4SkC!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd1942165-a40e-4572-a520-52c454a5a1e3_1665x1693.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4SkC!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd1942165-a40e-4572-a520-52c454a5a1e3_1665x1693.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" 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y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Free cash flow, however, is not really the best metric with which to evaluate Uber&#8217;s profitability. This is due to Uber&#8217;s captive insurance program. </p><p>Insurers generally take in money upfront in the form of premiums before paying out claims at a later date. This phenomenon will distort an insurer&#8217;s FCF. For example, an insurer that aggressively underwrites a wave of bad policies can look very profitable for a stretch on a FCF basis. However, FCF will ultimately crater as claims on these policies eventually explode. As such, insurance companies are virtually never valued on a FCF basis.</p><p>Because Uber underwrites its own insurance, and because the business has been growing strongly, its FCF is being inflated. I believe the quantum of this inflation is roughly comparable to Uber&#8217;s growth in accrued insurance reserves. Over 2023-2025, growth in its accrued insurance reserves totaled $2.2bn, $2.8bn and $2.7bn, respectively. </p><p>Management will reference a &#8220;$10bn in FCF&#8221; metric often, but this is a little disingenuous. It doesn&#8217;t account for $1.8bn in SBC (that can be forgiven, I suppose). But it also includes growth in accrued insurance reserves of ~$2.7bn, which I believe should be backed out. </p><div><hr></div><h2>Mobility</h2><h4>Key Priorities</h4><p><em>Build AV Supply</em></p><p>The introduction of AVs create risk for Uber. In time, self-driving cars will undercut the cost of traditional ridesharing. If Uber is not leading this transition (or a fast follower), they will be at risk. </p><p>The quicker Uber&#8217;s AV partners can get to L4, and the quicker Uber can add cheap AVs to its platform, the better. Uber is having to use its balance sheet to drive AVs forward at this stage in their development. As discussed above, this seems like the right strategic decision. This does mean, however, that Uber&#8217;s business will be getting more capital intensive for at least some period of time. </p><p>Uber&#8217;s goal is to be the largest purveyor of driverless rides by 2029.</p><p><em>Build Everything Else AVs Will Need</em></p><p>Just getting access to AVs may not be even half the battle, however. As discussed previously, there&#8217;s a lot more that is needed to operate a successful AV program (namely AV infrastructure, fleet operations, and a slew of other items). </p><p>Uber&#8217;s answer to the &#8220;slew of other items&#8221; is its <a href="https://youtu.be/uVDxmbNS2h4">Autonomous Solutions</a> offering, introduced in Feb-26. Uber breaks down is Autonomous Solutions offering into three buckets: (1) Infrastructure Solutions, (2) User Experience Solutions and (3) Fleet Management Solutions. 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6d2359bc-a197-4667-803a-8f8a378e4778_1190x399.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!gJai!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6d2359bc-a197-4667-803a-8f8a378e4778_1190x399.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" 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y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Here are the descriptions of each capability from a recent PR:</p><p><strong>Infrastructure Solutions</strong></p><ul><li><p><strong>AV2.0 Training Data.</strong> &#8220;Uber&#8217;s data-collection fleet includes thousands of specially-equipped vehicles across dozens of cities, which has captured millions of diverse miles of easily searchable multi-sensor data across the US and Europe. Working closely with engineers from <a href="https://www.uber.com/global/en/av-labs/">Uber AV Labs</a>, and building on partnerships like our <a href="https://nvidianews.nvidia.com/news/nvidia-uber-robotaxi">Data Factory</a> with NVIDIA, we&#8217;re helping our AV partners train their models and scale toward Level 4 autonomy much faster.&#8221; </p></li><li><p><strong>Data-Enriched Mapping.</strong> &#8220;Informed by tens of billions of trips worldwide and our own in-house mapping solutions, Uber&#8217;s dynamic geospatial data help AV partners refine pickups, routing, and ETAs with real-world precision, whether that&#8217;s avoiding specific intersections during rush hour or mitigating fleet-wide risks from weather and sudden road closures. Custom APIs help ensure AVs are always in the right places at the right time, even as Operational Design Domains evolve, continually driving both better utilization and a superior rider experience.&#8221;</p></li><li><p><strong>Complex Venue and Event Management.</strong> &#8220;With millions of trips completed at airports, stadiums, and event venues, Uber has developed unique data on the complexity of these high-traffic environments and how to ensure a good experience for riders. We are also leveraging existing relationships to work directly with high-traffic venues, like <a href="https://www.austinfc.com/news/uber-announced-as-official-rideshare-partner-of-q2-stadium">Q2 Stadium in Austin</a>, to optimize venues appropriately for both human- and AV-driven rideshare.&#8221;</p></li><li><p><strong>Fleet Financing.</strong> &#8220;Our scale and predictable demand support new models for AV asset financing, helping partners bring more vehicles and new autonomous form factors to the road faster.&#8221;</p></li><li><p><strong>Regulatory Compliance Services.</strong> &#8220;Uber&#8217;s global policy and regulatory support teams have deep experience and trusted relationships to help bring new technology to markets all over the world, which will be crucial for the commercialization of autonomous technology.&#8221;</p></li></ul><p><strong>User Experience Solutions</strong></p><ul><li><p><strong>In-Car Experience.</strong> &#8220;Drawing from our best-in-class product design, Uber has developed an in-car AV-first software interface that puts riders in control, with seamless access to sound, temperature, and rider assistance. Designed to work across different hardware configurations and deployments, this unified experience creates a consistent user experience for riders. Launching later this year, the <a href="https://www.nuro.ai/nuro-lucid-uber-robotaxi">Nuro-Lucid-Uber robotaxi</a> will be the first AV to bring this experience to its in-car tablets, seamlessly integrating Nuro&#8217;s real-time driving visualization.&#8221;</p></li><li><p><strong>Complex Use Cases / Shared &amp; Reserved Rides.</strong> &#8220;Preparing autonomy for real-world demand will require a diversified product offering. Building on our experience with UberX Share and Uber Reserve, we&#8217;re helping autonomous partners develop new products that provide the reliability riders expect, offering the demand density, flexible supply, and regulatory support necessary to make these products possible. We already offer AVs through Uber Reserve in Phoenix, and were the first to announce a <a href="https://www.uber.com/us/en/newsroom/go-get-2025/">shared AV product with Volkswagen</a>, launching later this year in Los Angeles.&#8221;</p></li><li><p><strong>End-to-End Support.</strong> &#8220;Uber&#8217;s customer support network is built into every stage of the journey. From pre-trip to post-trip, riders can access real-time help with the tap of a button, powered by the same infrastructure that supports more than a billion trips each month worldwide.&#8221;</p></li></ul><p><strong>Fleet Management Solutions</strong></p><ul><li><p><strong>Remote Assistance.</strong> &#8220;In a perfect world, AVs would never need help. In the real world, Uber provides real-time, on-road support for riders when AVs encounter issues, monitoring situations and providing live communication to the rider and the ADS itself. Additionally, we are designing a new remote assistance platform, built on top of our end-to-end support capabilities, and powered through a custom agent console that provides the operator with everything they need to understand the AV&#8217;s status and take action.&#8221;</p></li><li><p><strong>Field Support Operations.</strong> &#8220;Live today in multiple markets, our field support teams manage in-field issues, like lost items, towing, manual assistance, cleaning, or alternate rides to keep every trip moving&#8211;all visible through AV Mission Control. Where appropriate, we&#8217;ll also leverage our hybrid network, whether that&#8217;s returning a lost item through a courier, or seamlessly dispatching a human driver during inclement weather.&#8221;</p></li><li><p><strong>AV Mission Control.</strong> &#8220;Uber designed and built a comprehensive fleet intelligence and management solution that gives operators a real-time view of every vehicle, turning dozens of per-AV status indicators into system-level insight that keeps fleets efficient, connected, and ready to move. The system&#8217;s supply-state machine constantly ingests raw telemetry and signals from the AV fleet, determining a vehicle&#8217;s precise status, then uses an intelligent orchestration layer to help tee up possible actions or human interventions. This process is governed by a command authority system that strictly arbitrates who can issue commands, while providing a complete supply-history ledger for auditability.&#8221;</p></li><li><p><strong>AV Insurance.</strong> &#8220;Uber&#8217;s industry-first insurance program is built for the realities of autonomous operations. All aspects of an AV deployment require bespoke coverage, whether the vehicle is on-trip, off-trip, or charging at a depot. Uber&#8217;s Autonomous Vehicle Insurance Policy brings together protection for manufacturers, ADS providers, owners, fleet managers, and other supporting participants into one simple policy that is backed by several of the largest names in the insurance industry.&#8221;</p></li></ul><p>Some of these capabilities seem like simply a re-packaging of current capabilities, like &#8220;complex venue and event management.&#8221; However, many of these are highly important (e.g. field support, data-enriched mapping, AV mission control, AV insurance, remote assistance, in-car experience), and capabilities that a 1P operator would need to develop if they were to try to sidestep Uber or another rideshare operator. Uber is able to build these things once, and then all AV players can benefit. There is no need for each to &#8220;reinvent the wheel.&#8221;</p><p>Note that Autonomous Solutions omits two critical elements to running an AV fleet: (1) fleet operations and (2) physical infrastructure (charging and depots).</p><p>For fleet operations, Uber will rely on a network of boots-on-the-ground &#8220;fleet operator&#8221; partners across the globe. Luckily for Uber, many of these partners already exist, just in a slightly different form. Many Uber drivers today are actually employed by fleet managers (Uber works with 50k+ fleet managers who represent ~20% of mobility bookings), who provide the cars and do all the behind-the-scenes work (repairs, cleaning, etc.) to maximize vehicle uptime.</p><p>Here is some commentary from the company&#8217;s Q4&#8217;24 supplemental which highlights the company&#8217;s fleet operations relationships and know-how:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;Fourth, successful commercialization requires scaled, efficient on-the-ground operations, something that sits squarely within Uber&#8217;s domain of expertise. It is important to note that an average-utilized AV can run as much as 100K miles a year, compared to a typical consumer vehicle at 10-15K miles a year. <strong>This means that AVs need to be charged multiple times a day and serviced monthly. AVs will also require consistent cleaning and available parking, all of which Uber is uniquely equipped to manage.</strong> Uber also has 15 years of experience to support a host of other key operational issues like fare disputes, lost item returns, stranded vehicle rescue, and insurance claim resolution. </em></p><p><em>Uber can deliver the lowest operational costs for our AV partners because we are leaps and bounds ahead on every aspect of the go-to-market capabilities that are critical to commercialization. <strong>For example, we partner with more than 50,000 fleet operators that together manage more than a half a million vehicles on our network globally, accounting for nearly 20% of our Mobility Gross Bookings.</strong> We also have a highly optimized cost structure that has been honed over the 12 billion annualized trips now happening on Uber. Our AV partners get to plug into that cost structure instantly&#8212;with advanced capabilities in customer acquisition, customer support, and the underlying technology and payments stack. Put simply, we are the player with the scale and expertise to run AV operations at the highest efficiency, period.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>Here is Uber COO Andrew Macdonald from a Feb-26 <em>The Compound</em> podcast:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;I also think the physical world deployment is more challenging than people understand. The long tail to launching a new city might not actually be the the L4 software. It may not actually even be the hardware. It may be the amount of power you need to stand up a depot that can house 400 cars at the right location in a new city. <strong>And so Uber, taking our existing fleet network &#8212; because we have dozens of [them] that operate dozens of large scale fleets that operate on our core business today &#8212; and deploying those folks to own and manage assets on behalf of our AV deployments</strong>, I think is also really powerful and not well understood. And then there&#8217;s a whole host of other things. You think about customer support, payments, identity, risk, all these core capabilities that we can extend to our partners to make their deployments successful &#8212; I don&#8217;t think is well understood.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>These fleet partner relationships won&#8217;t necessarily be exclusive to Uber. However, Uber having a large rolodex of them and the know-how of partnering with them at scale is likely a nice advantage in these initial stages of AV fleet rollouts. I imagine it&#8217;s very attractive to say, Lucid/Nuro, that Uber can help you deploy across the globe with various partners all at once, while simultaneously using Uber&#8217;s size/leverage to perhaps negotiate more attractive terms than you would have enjoyed otherwise. Uber is also already fluent at helping these operators finance their vehicles, should they opt to own captive fleets (which they already do today, just the non-AV kind).</p><p>On infrastructure (charging and depots), it seems increasingly the case that Uber is going to step in to provide it where necessary. This is a capability that sophisticated fleet operators can and do bring. But it seems Uber is again willing to use its balance sheet to push things forward and fill in the gaps. From a Mar-26 Morgan Stanley conference:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;From our perspective, when we think through this deployment curve over the next few years, once we start getting conviction that software is going to hit the mark and it&#8217;s going to get to that L4 deployment with superhuman safety, our efforts start shifting to a couple of other priorities. </em></p><p><em>The first one is securing OEM supply, right? We need to ensure that any of our partners who can deliver that kind of software have enough scale volumes coming to them, and then that volume can get deployed on Uber&#8217;s network. </em></p><p><em>And then the other thing we have to do is to ensure that we are bringing AV infrastructure on the ground. <strong>And for instance, for our 2027 deployments, we&#8217;re already scouting sites across our footprint. We already have about 50 different sites that we are beginning to get into leasing conversations, and those deployments will start once we have the software there.&#8221;</strong></em></p></blockquote><p>The fact that Uber is in talks with 50 different sites <em>(50?!)</em> for 2027 deployments seems to indicate that Uber is not far behind Waymo (perhaps ahead even) when it comes to a global AV infrastructure rollout.</p><p>Perhaps underrated as well is that Uber already operates all over the world. This means Uber already has &#8220;boots on the ground&#8221; that are familiar with these geos that can help liaise with fleet operators, help from a regulatory standpoint, help secure depots/charging infrastructure, etc. And nobody knows better than Uber (given its decade+ worth of data) where to put depots in all these cities across the world to maximize utilization. </p><p><em>Penetrate the Suburbs</em></p><p>Uber&#8217;s mobility business has been relatively slow to target/penetrate the suburbs. It makes sense &#8212; in the suburbs, more people have their own cars, parking is much easier to come by, there&#8217;s less nightlife per capita, and it&#8217;s less dense so it&#8217;s harder to avoid &#8220;deadheading&#8221; as a driver.</p><p>Uber has over time, however, developed products that have helped crack open the suburban market.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-43" href="#footnote-43" target="_self">43</a> One example is Uber Reserve, which allows riders to reserve a time at which an Uber is guaranteed to be at a pick-up location. This helps alleviate the issue of long ETAs that plagues less dense markets, and better unlocks use-cases like the airport trip (though it costs riders more). Another product, Wait &amp; Save, is basically the opposite of Reserve. It allows riders to wait longer for a ride but get a better rate. This helps more cost-conscious riders somewhat mitigate the higher cost of suburban rides. Another product is Uber Teens, designed for teenagers aged 13 to 17. Uber Teens allows teens to request their own rides (and order food via Uber Eats), but with a suite of safety features and parental oversight.</p><p>Here is Uber CFO Balaji Krishnamurthy commenting on Uber&#8217;s momentum in mobility in the suburbs from a Mar-26 Morgan Stanley conference:</p><blockquote><p>Analyst: <em>&#8220;Let&#8217;s come back to the core in the U.S. because there&#8217;s &#8212; the overall business is being run really well. And one of the shining points has been the dense &#8212; the less dense or the more sparsely populated market. <strong>I think you&#8217;ve talked about them growing 1.5x faster than the denser market</strong>. Maybe walk us through what has driven that faster growth. And how do you think about sort of investing to keep that more sparse market growth moving quicker through the overall P&amp;L?&#8221;</em></p><p>Balaji Krishnamurthy (CFO): <em>&#8220;Yes. So what I would say there is that it has been a function of our product innovation as well over the years, right? Historically, the reason we&#8217;ve not been able to serve sparser markets is that reliability in those markets is much worse. And over the years, we were able to address the reliability challenge on 2 dimensions. <strong>First, we introduced Reserve which, as a consumer, allows you to trade for reliability in exchange for price.</strong></em></p><p><em>Reserve is more premium, you pay a price and get the reliability that brings you. And then, at the same time, <strong>we were also able to launch and expand a product like Wait &amp; Save, which gives you the opposite choice.</strong> You get reliability in exchange for time, right? <strong>You&#8217;re making a trade-off on the time dimension versus price.</strong> So as we&#8217;ve done that -- and we have gotten better about things like taxi integrations because, historically, again, we didn&#8217;t have the 3P integration available.</em></p><p><em>In many markets, taxi is the best way to go into expansion. All of that has allowed us to go into these sparser markets and serve consumer needs in a way we couldn&#8217;t earlier. So what we&#8217;re beginning to see now is, today, when you think about the disclosure we gave on earnings <strong>where trips happening within our top 20 markets in the U.S. represent about 30% of our gross bookings but only 25% of U.S. mobility EBITDA, that just is a function of our non-top 20 markets growing faster, getting to a profitability position that&#8217;s better than our top 20 markets and continuing to grow from there, right?</strong></em></p><p><em><strong>It&#8217;s not at mature state margins either.</strong> <strong>And the further out you go on that density quartile, the better that story becomes for us, and we feel that the runway here is very, very long.</strong> And this is not just a U.S. story. We see similar sort of themes in Europe and markets like LatAm as well, where we are expanding with our Moto product, which is today 15% of first trips in Brazil and 90% of these Moto consumers migrate from Moto to UberX and other Uber products, which are quite profitable for us as well. So lots of runway with the product and geographical expansion we are driving here.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>Another interesting aspect of Uber&#8217;s suburban expansion is that these markets, counterintuitively, generate higher margins for Uber. From the Q1&#8217;26 prepared remarks:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;We also made solid progress expanding into suburban markets, with YoY trip growth in lower density geographies growing faster than the overall business <strong>with higher margins,</strong> contributing to our record segment operating income margin of 7.7%.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>The suburbs represent a very large, relatively under-penetrated market for Uber. The success Uber is having penetrating them, and doing so in a nicely profitable way, is a great development. Further, if Uber can win more customers in mobility in the suburbs, this should help them better penetrate the delivery opportunity in the suburbs as well (as the Uber One program would have greater appeal). </p><p><em>Drive Affordability</em></p><p>Key to driving sustainable growth for Uber is driving down prices. Uber has come at this from a few different angles in recent years.</p><p>One has been the Uber One program. Uber One materially reduces price on the delivery side, but also does so on the mobility side. As mentioned, Uber recently doubled down on the Uber One program by extending it across families and offering a discount for college-aged kids.</p><p>Another has been driving down the cost of commercial insurance. Commercial insurance costs exploded over the 2021-2024 period. Uber has helped cull prices by incentivizing safer driving and through investing in regulatory relief. Here is management from a Dec-25 UBS conference, discussing their regulatory relief efforts, specifically around reducing the size of their mandatory policy coverages:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;On the policy side, we have been working with a number of state situations to improve the equality of -- and the fairness really of the circumstances in various states on how Uber has to -- what levels of insurance Uber has to provide. <strong>California is probably one that many of you have heard about more recently. We used to have to carry $1 million of liability for uninsured and underinsured, whereas the car next to us would only have to carry a liability of $300,000. That delta ended up building a cottage industry of folks who were looking for Uber as a source of torque and legal claims.</strong> I mean, it really &#8212; we became their TAM. And by readjusting that down, we know that the amount of fraudulent use of the legal system in a number of states, California, we&#8217;ve done some reforms in Georgia, Nevada, et cetera, are also starting to give us benefit. And the last is, overall, the cost of insurance industry-wide in the U.S. has also started to moderate. So that&#8217;s now down to sort of mid-single digits from when I started at Uber, it was &#8212; I think it was in the low 20s.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>According to Uber, because it was required to maintain coverage of $1mm for uninsured and underinsured motorists in California, it became a &#8220;cottage industry&#8221; to extract awards from both Uber and Lyft (taxi companies were only required to carry a $300,000 policy).<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-44" href="#footnote-44" target="_self">44</a> Uber and Lyft successfully reduced their mandatory coverage in California from $1,000,000 per incident to $300,000 per incident (and $60,000 per person) through SB 371, signed into CA law in Oct-25 (effective Jan-26).</p><p>Lastly, Uber has introduced new products to help lower prices, including: </p><ul><li><p>Route Share. Offers pickups every 20 minutes along busy corridors during weekday commute hours. Fares are up to 50% cheaper than the cost of an UberX</p></li><li><p>Ride Passes. For $2.99 per month, a rider can lock in a price for a specified route during a specified 1-hr window (avoids high fares due to weather, traffic, etc.). This is a product designed for routine commutes. Riders can also prepay for 5, 10, 15 or 20 rides to unlock even greater discounts</p></li><li><p>Moto. Moto, or two-wheelers, is an increasing component of Uber&#8217;s offering in certain developing countries like Brazil and India. Moto now represents 15% of all first-time trips in Brazil.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-45" href="#footnote-45" target="_self">45</a></p></li></ul><p>Here is Dara discussing the Route Share product at its introduction at the 2025 Go-Get event:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;Building out a true low-cost product, shared product, getting 2 or 3 people into a car is a very significant challenge in -- operationally, algorithmically. We&#8217;re making progress there. So I&#8217;m happy about the progress there, but this is -- <strong>I think we will be possibly the only company in the world that&#8217;s going to solve this at scale.</strong> To be clear, we&#8217;re losing money in share, but the loss rates are coming down. The efficiencies continue to increase, and I&#8217;m quite confident of the activity of that team.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>The granddaddy of them all, however, will be AVs. AVs will drive a sustained, decade-long+ reduction in pricing.</p><p><em>Strengthen the Product Suite</em></p><p>Uber&#8217;s expanded product suite is clearly something that&#8217;s moving the needle. The aforementioned &#8220;Wait &amp; Save,&#8221; &#8220;Reserve&#8221; and &#8220;Uber Teens&#8221; products are examples.</p><p>One especially key &#8220;product&#8221; for Uber, which Uber detailed in its Q1&#8217;26 prepared remarks, is &#8220;Uber for Business&#8221; (or U4B). The product-market fit here seems quite strong. Businesses of all flavors have all kinds of mobility and delivery needs. On the delivery side, providing lunch for employees would be a common use-case. On the mobility side, of course, there is business travel. And nobody can provide travel options in more places (and with both value and premium offerings). U4B is a $5bn business today in terms of annualized bookings, serving 300k+ organizations. It is &#8220;high margin&#8221; per the Q1&#8217;26 prepared remarks. And it is growing 45% YoY. Uber is targeting $10bn in gross bookings (and 1mm business customers) by 2028. Like other loyalty programs, U4B allows employees to keep any Uber One credits generated from work trips for personal use.</p><h4>TAM</h4><p>Below is the US TAM sensitivity table from earlier showing the US rideshare market opportunity as a product of price per mile x rideshare market share (and assuming 3tn total miles traveled). </p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!uaV0!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff3fc75ef-72ac-45d3-90bc-584fc59f131a_1685x713.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!uaV0!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff3fc75ef-72ac-45d3-90bc-584fc59f131a_1685x713.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!uaV0!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff3fc75ef-72ac-45d3-90bc-584fc59f131a_1685x713.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!uaV0!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff3fc75ef-72ac-45d3-90bc-584fc59f131a_1685x713.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!uaV0!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff3fc75ef-72ac-45d3-90bc-584fc59f131a_1685x713.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!uaV0!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff3fc75ef-72ac-45d3-90bc-584fc59f131a_1685x713.png" width="1456" height="616" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/f3fc75ef-72ac-45d3-90bc-584fc59f131a_1685x713.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:616,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:92619,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/189172282?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff3fc75ef-72ac-45d3-90bc-584fc59f131a_1685x713.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!uaV0!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff3fc75ef-72ac-45d3-90bc-584fc59f131a_1685x713.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!uaV0!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff3fc75ef-72ac-45d3-90bc-584fc59f131a_1685x713.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!uaV0!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff3fc75ef-72ac-45d3-90bc-584fc59f131a_1685x713.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!uaV0!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff3fc75ef-72ac-45d3-90bc-584fc59f131a_1685x713.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>This compares to Uber&#8217;s current US mobility gross bookings of ~$40bn. Just eyeballing it, a market in the $400-600bn range (or a ~10x&#8217;ing of the market) over ~15 years seems possible.</p><p><em>What % Will AVs Actually Take?</em></p><p>Whether AVs take 10%, 20%, or 30%+ of the market, and over what time period, is obviously of huge importance.</p><p>A big deciding factor is likely the price per mile at which AVs ultimately asymptote. For example, if AVs land at half the cost per mile of personal car ownership, you could make a case for a much higher ultimate market share (perhaps even over 50%). If the price lands in a range that is around parity with personally owned cars, it becomes harder to handicap.</p><p>One set of projections I&#8217;ve seen is from <a href="https://www.marcus.com/us/en/resources/heard-at-gs/ramping-up-on-self-driving-rideshare">Goldman Sachs</a> from Jul-25, which pegged the timing of the crossover in the ~2036-2038 range, so call it a decade from now. In this example, it seems GS has the price of AVs dropping materially below personally-owned, but this particular post is light on details, so it&#8217;s hard to know how they arrived at these figures.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Ra4g!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3a8e3767-f192-44d9-b23e-2e8b82afb17d_747x514.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Ra4g!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3a8e3767-f192-44d9-b23e-2e8b82afb17d_747x514.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Ra4g!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3a8e3767-f192-44d9-b23e-2e8b82afb17d_747x514.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Ra4g!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3a8e3767-f192-44d9-b23e-2e8b82afb17d_747x514.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Ra4g!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3a8e3767-f192-44d9-b23e-2e8b82afb17d_747x514.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Ra4g!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3a8e3767-f192-44d9-b23e-2e8b82afb17d_747x514.png" width="747" height="514" 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3a8e3767-f192-44d9-b23e-2e8b82afb17d_747x514.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Ra4g!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3a8e3767-f192-44d9-b23e-2e8b82afb17d_747x514.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Ra4g!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3a8e3767-f192-44d9-b23e-2e8b82afb17d_747x514.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Ra4g!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3a8e3767-f192-44d9-b23e-2e8b82afb17d_747x514.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Below I&#8217;ve done my own back-of-the-envelope analysis. I analyze the cost per mile for robotaxis at a range of price points for the vehicle (from $150k down to $20k). I compare this to the cost per mile across a range of personally-owned vehicle types (new &amp; used 4Runners, Corollas and Priuses). I also include a theoretical personally-owned AV Prius (i.e. one that can drive itself; I assume the hardware for this is in the ~$10k range).</p><p>When I do the math, I land in a zone where robotaxis and personally owned are around parity, even at low AV vehicle price points.</p><div><hr></div><p><em>Note that this analysis is laden with assumptions. The goal is to get a ballpark sense of the AV price at which AVs and personally-owned vehicles &#8220;crossover,&#8221; and how low the price of AVs could potentially get. This analysis assumes supporting infrastructure is well utilized (i.e. we&#8217;re hitting economies of scale on things like charging infrastructure). Note as well that my numbers don&#8217;t necessarily line up with the Goldman numbers above. Goldman&#8217;s current AV prices bake in high insurance rates, costs for &#8220;remote operators,&#8221; etc. I&#8217;m effectively fast-forwarding to a world where these costs are already at maturity (e.g. I don&#8217;t have any costs allocated for &#8220;remote operators;&#8221; I assume an insurance rate lower than today&#8217;s personal car insurance rates, etc.). </em></p><div><hr></div><p>Based on my rough figures below, as the cost of a robotaxi dips into ~$30k range, the cost per mile will be just about equivalent to that of a personally owned AV Prius (~68c per mile vs. ~63c per mile). However, the cost per mile of a $30k robotaxi will still be above that of a personally-owned non-AV Corolla or Prius (~68c per mile vs. ~55c per mile). </p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!nkUL!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4f6a46aa-4448-4d49-b6cb-9ddd188e2d13_3962x2355.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!nkUL!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4f6a46aa-4448-4d49-b6cb-9ddd188e2d13_3962x2355.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!nkUL!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4f6a46aa-4448-4d49-b6cb-9ddd188e2d13_3962x2355.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!nkUL!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4f6a46aa-4448-4d49-b6cb-9ddd188e2d13_3962x2355.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!nkUL!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4f6a46aa-4448-4d49-b6cb-9ddd188e2d13_3962x2355.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!nkUL!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4f6a46aa-4448-4d49-b6cb-9ddd188e2d13_3962x2355.png" width="1456" height="865" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/4f6a46aa-4448-4d49-b6cb-9ddd188e2d13_3962x2355.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:865,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:1495782,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/189172282?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4f6a46aa-4448-4d49-b6cb-9ddd188e2d13_3962x2355.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!nkUL!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4f6a46aa-4448-4d49-b6cb-9ddd188e2d13_3962x2355.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!nkUL!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4f6a46aa-4448-4d49-b6cb-9ddd188e2d13_3962x2355.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!nkUL!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4f6a46aa-4448-4d49-b6cb-9ddd188e2d13_3962x2355.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!nkUL!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4f6a46aa-4448-4d49-b6cb-9ddd188e2d13_3962x2355.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>This analysis is based on a host of assumptions/estimates. Some that are worth calling out in particular:</p><ul><li><p>Life of the car. Taxis drive a lot more miles, in total, than the average personally owned car. EV taxis even more so. This is a big part of what makes the robotaxi math work. In this analysis I assume a new personally owned vehicle will last 200k miles, while an AV taxi will last 300-425k miles. Note that in years, this means the taxi is only lasting ~5 years (I assume 80k miles driven per year), while the personally-owned vehicle lasts ~16 years. </p></li><li><p>Insurance costs. For the personally-owned insurance, I take this <a href="https://www.aaa.com/autorepair/articles/breaking-down-the-cost-of-car-ownership">AAA</a> estimate for annual costs ($1,715) divided by avg miles driven per year (of 12.5k) to get to 14c per mile. For the AV car, I assume a better rate per mile. I assume a better rate per mile because Waymos are already ~10x safer than the average human driver. The rate I use is not 10x better, however, as I assume the better safety is offset by more expensive repairs and by the fact that commercial insurance rates run higher than personal insurance. For the $50k AV, I assume a rate of 10c per mile.</p></li><li><p>Fuel/electricity costs. For the Corolla, for instance, I assume $4.00 per gallon for gas and 35 MPG (which equates to 11c per mile). For the 4Runner I assume $4.00 per gallon and 23 MPG (or 17c per mile). For the AV I assume 8c per mile for electricity. While home powered electricity is supposedly only <a href="https://recharged.com/articles/cost-per-mile-ev-vs-gas?srsltid=AfmBOop8Od8D4Eg6BhIp9SrIxUzyfc2x4u618Lso8lBeVj-datdNIwN5">4-6c</a> per mile, fast charging is considerably more (~9-15c per mile). AV taxis will sometimes need to be rapidly charged multiple times per day. They also require more power than the average EV due to the additional compute/sensor hardware. That said, fleet AVs should enjoy electricity rates that are closer to wholesale, helping to offset the need for faster charging and higher electricity demand. </p></li><li><p>Maintenance. For the personally-owned vehicles I use a 10c per mile estimate from <a href="https://www.aaa.com/autorepair/articles/breaking-down-the-cost-of-car-ownership">AAA</a>. I assume a slightly lower cost for the AVs due to EVs generally being much cheaper to maintain. Fleet AVs should also benefit from &#8220;wholesale&#8221; repair costs vs. personally-owned which are subject to a retail mark-ups. I assume the cheaper cost is somewhat offset by the addition of expensive sensor/compute components. In all I assume a cost of 8c per mile for the $50K AV.</p></li><li><p>Parking. This is an area where dramatic swings can happen. If you live in the average suburban home, your parking is &#8220;free.&#8221; However, if you live in a luxury condo in a dense urban core, you might pay $350+ per month for parking. If you assume 12.5k miles driven per year, that equates to 35c+ per mile. For AVs I assume they are mostly parked in relatively low-cost depots. I assume an all-in rate for parking of ~$5 per day (~$150 per month), which translates to 2c per mile ($5 per day * 365 days / 80k miles per yr).</p></li><li><p>Utilization Mark-Up. AVs are not always occupied, of course. In fact, it&#8217;s estimated that around ~40% of miles are &#8220;empty miles.&#8221; Thus, we need a mark-up on occupied miles to recoup to cost of these empty miles. In my analysis I assume the robotaxis travel 80k miles per year and that 50k of these miles are &#8220;revenue generating&#8221; (or 62.5% of total miles).</p></li><li><p>20% Rideshare Mark-Up. This represents Uber&#8217;s 20% take rate that they will layer on top of the rest of a robotaxi&#8217;s cost structure.</p></li></ul><p>Dara actually makes the case in a Nov-25 <em>HD in HD</em> podcast that once AVs get into the $50-60k range, the AV becomes a &#8220;very, very compelling economic proposition.&#8221; He states that it will likely take &#8220;a couple generations&#8221; of cars to get there.</p><blockquote><p><em>Interviewer: &#8220;Do you think that the AV thing is going to happen kind of like little by little then all at once or it will be incremental over some period of time?&#8221; </em></p><p><em>DK: &#8220;<strong>I think the way I&#8217;d put it is little by little by little and then all at once.</strong> <strong>In that if the vehicles are cheap enough and safe enough, then the economics of AV are spectacular. And not only will they be a huge opportunity for ridesharing as it exists, they will extend the TAM hugely of the overall mobility pie. But it&#8217;ll take hardware platforms that are both safe and cheap and we&#8217;re probably two generations away from that hardware platform right now.</strong>&#8221;</em></p><p><em>Interviewer: &#8220;What&#8217;s the bottleneck right now?&#8221;</em></p><p><em>DK: &#8220;The bottleneck right now is a lot of the sensors, compute and then the software are essentially intermingled. You don&#8217;t have industry set of APIs that are formulating. As the industry matures, standards are going to come into play. So for example, we announced an effort with NVIDIA where, you know, they are building the next generation AV stack with Hyperion. And they are building their own L4 software that they&#8217;re going to essentially offer to all vehicle operators. And we will bring the network, we&#8217;ll do data collection and then we&#8217;ll run fleet management as well. And then the OEMs can focus on manufacturing cars. <strong>And if you have a future where 10 years from now, every single new car sold comes at L4 ready and is $50, $60,000. That is a very, very compelling economic proposition.</strong> But you need a couple of generations of cars and compute&#8217;s probably there, but a couple of generations of cars to get there.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>The big hurdle, of course, in getting to a $50K AV is in the hardware costs (compute, sensors). Encouragingly, the cost of AV hardware has been falling rapidly. </p><p>From Q2&#8217;25 earnings:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;The real question for us is the cost of the vehicles, the cost of hardware coming down. <strong>And again, we&#8217;re seeing very encouraging trends there. LiDAR, which used to cost $20,000, $30,000 a pop, now solid-state LiDAR coming out of some of the Chinese manufacturers is costing $300, $400 per LiDAR as well.</strong> So the affordability of hardware is moving absolutely in the right direction.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>Here is Alex Kendall (Founder, CEO of Wayve) from a Nov-25 <em>Training Data</em> podcast:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;<strong>The industry has really, outside of Tesla, coalesced around a common architecture of a surround camera, surround radar, and a front-facing LiDAR stack. Now, this costs under $2,000.</strong> It&#8217;s automotive grade components, not the retrofit robotaxi components you see today. But having frontier GPU compute, automotive grade GPU on the car and that kind of sensor architecture is a really great platform to to build L3/L4 autonomy, eyes off or driverless. It gives you the necessary redundancy. It lets you deal with edge cases that &#8212; you know, cameras alone, I agree they can get you to human level but we want to go beyond human level &#8212; and so I think this kind of architecture is affordable, scalable, it&#8217;s got the supply chain for mass manufacturing and it can&#8230;drive superhuman levels of performance. So that&#8217;s what we&#8217;re seeing many manufacturers bring out on their vehicles and where we&#8217;re integrating our AI.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>Another hurdle is eliminating the &#8220;retrofit&#8221; costs of adding AV hardware to a vehicle after it has already been produced. The Jaguar I-Pace Waymos, for example, were retrofitted with all the necessary hardware for L4 autonomy. Increasingly (including for the Nuro/Lucid Gravity robotaxis), these components will be integrated into the vehicle during normal-course production (or &#8220;in-line&#8221; production). This will introduce additional cost savings.</p><p><em>If AVs Achieve Price Parity Only, What Market Share Can AVs Take?</em></p><p>In this case, whether you are a car owner or not may depend a good deal on where you live. If you don&#8217;t have kids and live in a dense urban core where you are paying 35c per mile for parking and it&#8217;s painful to drive around, the decision to go rideshare-only is more straightforward. If you have kids and live in the suburbs, you probably still own at least one car (for the car seat, the convenience of being able to keep stuff in the car, etc.). </p><p>Here is Gemini&#8217;s break down of where people live in the US based on population density:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!wAfO!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe37fa156-9f38-4d67-9542-b725ab045dc0_483x568.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!wAfO!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, 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/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!wAfO!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe37fa156-9f38-4d67-9542-b725ab045dc0_483x568.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!wAfO!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe37fa156-9f38-4d67-9542-b725ab045dc0_483x568.png" width="551" height="647.9668737060041" 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe37fa156-9f38-4d67-9542-b725ab045dc0_483x568.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!wAfO!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe37fa156-9f38-4d67-9542-b725ab045dc0_483x568.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" 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y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Perhaps we assume 50% of the &#8220;urban core&#8221; miles are robotaxi, 25% of the &#8220;dense transit-adjacent,&#8221; 10% of the &#8220;auto-centric suburbs&#8221; and 0% of rural. This would equate to 15% of total miles being robotaxi.</p><p>If 15% of miles are robotaxi, and we assume a price per mile of $1.25, that equates to a ~$550bn market size (in US mobility alone).</p><p><em>How Much do AVs Cost Today?</em></p><p>Uber ballparked the cost of an all-in AV at around $200k in 2024.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-46" href="#footnote-46" target="_self">46</a> </p><p>In Feb-26, Waymo struck a deal with Hyundai that was <a href="https://autonews.gasgoo.com/articles/icv/behind-a-potential-25b-deal-hyundai-and-waymo-tackle-scale-together-2021206343103291393">rumored</a> to be $2.5bn for 50k IONIQ 5 vehicles. That comes out to a price tag of $50k per vehicle. The IONIQ MSRPs in the range of $35k. So the assumption is that the additional $15k per vehicle was for all the necessary autonomy hardware. If this were the case, then we are actually almost at Dara&#8217;s $50K bogey today.</p><p>When Uber recently <a href="https://ir.lucidmotors.com/news-releases/news-release-details/lucid-receive-new-investments-pif-and-uber-uber-and-lucid-expand">expanded</a> its Nuro/Lucid partnership to include an additional 15k minimum order of Lucid&#8217;s new midsize vehicle, the PR quoted a price of &#8220;less than $50k&#8221; as a starting price for the vehicle. The way the PR is phrased, the $50k seems to exclude AV hardware costs. But if those are in the $15k range, then Uber would be looking at a ~$65k AV.</p><p>Further, as previously mentioned, Chinese-built AVs may already be well below $50k. BYD&#8217;s latest Seagull EV, equipped with LiDAR and a &#8220;mid-tier&#8221; smart driving system, retails for just <a href="https://electrek.co/2026/05/12/byd-launches-seagull-ev-with-lidar-for-13000-first-in-its-class/">~$13,400</a>. Baidu&#8217;s RT6 Robotaxi (manufactured by JMC) has supposedly carried a <a href="https://www.theverge.com/2024/11/22/24303299/baidu-apollo-go-rt6-robotaxi-unit-economics-waymo">sub $30k</a> price tag since May-24. </p><p>What ultimately gets a US-built AV to a sub $30k level might be innovation on form factor. For example, Tesla&#8217;s Cybercab, which it claims will retail for ~$30k, is stripped down and purpose-built for autonomy. It is a two-seater with no steering wheel, no mirrors, no pedals, a smaller battery, etc. </p><p>If I had to guess, if we exclude Chinese manufacturers, I&#8217;d say we are ~4-6 years away from AVs (with super human safety) coming off the line at a ~$30-40k price point. This would be in line with (perhaps slightly below) Dara&#8217;s estimate of &#8220;a couple generations away.&#8221; </p><h4>Competitive Landscape</h4><p><em>Waymo</em></p><p>Waymo was founded in 2009 as a &#8220;moonshot&#8221; experiment within Google&#8217;s X lab. The company was spun out in 2016, but is still majority owned by Google.</p><p>In Jan-26, the company closed a $16bn round of financing at a $126bn valuation. Investors in the round included Dragoneer, Sequoia Capital, DST Global, Andreessen Horowitz and Mubadala (Abu Dhabi&#8217;s sovereign fund). Waymo was reportedly doing north of <a href="https://www.ft.com/content/94663caf-6c98-4883-b3f0-cc763a3b95ff?syn-25a6b1a6=1">$350mm</a> in annualized revenue at the time of the raise (in Waymo&#8217;s case, revenue and bookings are going to be equivalent). </p><p>Waymo launched its commercial service in Phoenix in 2020. In Aug-23, it launched in San Francisco, it&#8217;s second official commercial market. The company now operates in ~15 markets: San Francisco, Los Angeles, San Diego, Las Vegas, Phoenix, Denver, Austin, Dallas, San Antonio, Houston, Nashville, Atlanta, Tampa, Orlando, and Miami. The company reportedly had a total ~3,000 vehicles in its fleet as of Mar-26.</p><p>Waymo&#8217;s vehicles are classified as level four autonomous. They don&#8217;t require a driver or active supervision. By all accounts, in terms of safety, they compare very favorably to human drivers. From the <a href="https://www.wsj.com/opinion/free-expression/your-flying-taxi-is-on-the-way-8969d6d5">WSJ</a>:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;Swiss Re, one of the world&#8217;s premier reinsurance companies, analyzed 25 million miles of Waymo driving. It concluded these vehicles are safer than human drivers, with <strong>92% fewer bodily injury claims and 88% fewer property damage claims</strong>. A peer-reviewed study examined 56.7 million rider-only miles and found <strong>an 85% reduction in suspected serious injuries compared with human drivers and a 96% reduction in intersection crashes.</strong>&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>These stats suggest Waymos are roughly 10x safer than the average human driver. Waymo&#8217;s Co-CEO, Tekedra Mawakana, had the following to say at the Nov-25 <em>TechCrunch Disrupt</em> conference, suggesting Waymos were ~5x and ~12x safer when it came to accidents with other vehicles/property and with pedestrians, respectively:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;We&#8217;ve driven over 100 million RO [Remote Operations] miles, but we had a study at 96 million RO miles. And it&#8217;s actually been determined that <strong>the Waymo driver is five times safer than a human driver and 12 times safer than a human driver as it relates to pedestrians</strong>.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>Waymo is expanding quickly, growing its rides per week by <a href="https://techcrunch.com/2026/03/27/waymo-skyrocketing-ridership-in-one-chart/">10</a>x over the past 2 years. The pace of city expansions, in fact, has increased dramatically. Early markets took years to advance from initial mapping to on-road autonomous testing to a pilot with riders to a commercial launch. More recent city launches like Orlando have condensed this timeline to <a href="/__u/substack.com/inbox/post/194608400">&lt;1 year</a>.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!y2z2!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F51ba8f0a-cfe1-460b-98b5-8f4408af2e7c_751x527.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!y2z2!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F51ba8f0a-cfe1-460b-98b5-8f4408af2e7c_751x527.png 424w, 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F51ba8f0a-cfe1-460b-98b5-8f4408af2e7c_751x527.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!y2z2!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F51ba8f0a-cfe1-460b-98b5-8f4408af2e7c_751x527.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" 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company is targeting 1mm rides per week and to have ride-hailing operations in over 20 cities (including two international cities: Tokyo and London) by the end of 2026.</p><p>In Jun-26, Waymo introduced &#8220;Waymo Premier,&#8221; a subscription product priced at $29.99 per month. Waymo Premier allows riders to (1) access priority pickups, (2) earn 10% Waymo Cash back on all trips, (3) access new cities early, and (4) cancel up to five trips monthly for free.</p><p>As referenced previously, the Waymo service, at this point, is generally more expensive and ETAs are longer than traditional rideshare. The Waymo fleet is fixed and thus can&#8217;t &#8220;flex up&#8221; like Uber&#8217;s can to meet demand during peak hours. As a result, Waymo must choose whether to carry enough cars to meet peak-ish demand (and thus be forced to idle more cars during troughs), or whether to carry less cars to drive better utilization (knowing this will result in higher ETAs during peak hours). It appears Waymo has chosen the latter approach for now. It will likely continue to be challenging for Waymo to offer low ETAs during peak hours.</p><p>Waymo&#8217;s fleet is currently almost entirely Jaguar I-Pace&#8217;s. The company is in the process of introducing the Ojai from Chinese carmaker Zeekr (a subsidiary of Geely). The Ojai is a small minivan/SUV, and will include Waymo&#8217;s sixth-generation AV technology. The sixth-generation sensor array consists of 13 cameras, 4 LiDAR sensors and 6 radar sensors. This is a material reduction to the fifth-generation suite which consisted of 29 cameras, 5 LiDAR sensors and 6 radar sensors. According to this FT <a href="https://www.ft.com/content/d02bc635-4cec-451e-8619-080cfae8b020?syn-25a6b1a6=1">article</a>, analysts pegged the cost of a Jaguar I-Pace at ~$150k each. Waymo announced in May-25 that it had received the last I-Pace that it would add to its fleet. In all, Waymo ended up taking delivery on ~3.5k I-Pace&#8217;s (vs. initial plans for as many as 20k). Waymo is also planning to outfit South Korea&#8217;s Hyundai IONIQ 5 SUV with its sixth-generation AV technology.</p><p>In mid-2025, Waymo opened a large, 239k sq ft production facility in Mesa, AZ in partnership with Magna International, an automotive supplier. The facility will be capable of upfitting &#8220;tens of thousands&#8221; of vehicles per year, and will reportedly handle both the Ojai and the upcoming IONIQ 5. In the case of the Ojai, most of the production is done in China (i.e. the platform, structural elements, powertrain). The Mesa facility takes this &#8220;glider&#8221; base vehicle and adds the autonomous outfitting and performs final assembly. While the Mesa plant does not represent pure &#8220;in-line&#8221; production (which would be the cheapest form of AV production), it constitutes a step in that direction.</p><p>While Waymo has shown nothing other than an accelerating roadmap in its 1P robotaxi service, when asked about their future business model, they do maintain that first and foremost, they are building a &#8220;generalizable driver.&#8221;</p><p>Here is their Co-CEO Tekedra Mawakana from the Nov-25 <em>TechCrunch Disrupt</em> conference:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;Our business model is the same. We&#8217;re building a generalizable driver. That driver, through our ride-hailing service, is our first application. Then local delivery. Then long haul trucking. And then eventually we will license this technology to automotive companies for personally owned cars. That&#8217;s always been our road map, and it&#8217;s still our road map.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>She has reiterated this idea in multiple interviews. And Waymo actually has a partnership with DoorDash, delivering food in Phoenix.</p><p>Here is Sundar Pichai on a Jun-25 <em>Lex Fridman</em> podcast also emphasizing Waymo&#8217;s focus on the Driver tech (and its &#8220;generalizability&#8221;):</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;We don&#8217;t compete with Tesla directly, we are not making cars, etc. We are building L4, L5 autonomy. <strong>We&#8217;re building a Waymo Driver which is general purpose and can be used in many settings.</strong> They&#8217;re obviously working on making Tesla self-driving too. I&#8217;ve just assumed it&#8217;s de facto that Elon will succeed in whatever he does. So like, you know, that is not something I question. So but I think we are so far from &#8212; these spaces are such vast spaces &#8212; like <strong>I think about transportation, the opportunity space, the Waymo Driver is a general purpose technology. We can apply in many situations.</strong> So you have a vast, green space. In all future scenarios, I see Tesla doing well and Waymo doing well.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>Here is Alex Immerman (a16z lead investor on Waymo) on a Mar-26 <em>Sourcery</em> podcast, with some slight hedging re whether Waymo will, in the end, choose to operate a fully blown rideshare service:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;I think where margins land over time is an interesting question. On one hand, Waymo could go the route that they are today and own and operate cities like in San Francisco and Los Angeles. They own the experience with Waymo One. They are managing the operations and the depots. <strong>As an alternative, they could outsource some of that as they are in Phoenix, Atlanta and Austin, where third parties like an Uber or a Moove are managing the operations. When you outsource that, and those are real costs, that could lead to a higher margin product.</strong> This is never going to be like high margin software, but it&#8217;ll be better than operating the fleet themselves.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>David Risher, the CEO of Lyft, has expressed some doubt around whether Waymo will ultimately want to build out a global robotaxi service. In his mind, as the leader in the space, Waymo is still in an experimentation phase. From a Nov-25 <em>Decoder</em> interview:</p><blockquote><p>Interviewer: <em>&#8220;Let me ask you about Waymo, and then I want to kind of zoom out again. You&#8217;re Waymo&#8217;s partner in Nashville. Waymo&#8217;s partnered with Uber in other markets. Waymo&#8217;s running their own service in some markets. It does feel &#8212; and you know, they&#8217;re obviously backed by Alphabet, they&#8217;ve been backed by Alphabet for a long time. They&#8217;re going to spend a lot of money to win. It just seems very obvious. If you asked Sundar about it, he is like, we&#8217;re just going to keep spending money because now it&#8217;s very clear that we&#8217;re close to winning. They&#8217;re going to spend a lot of money until they win. They&#8217;re looking for partners, right? They&#8217;re looking to see what winning looks like. You&#8217;re obviously &#8212; you&#8217;re in a kind of a weird competition, right? You&#8217;re in a weird kind of bake-off. You&#8217;re the partner in one market, they&#8217;re the partner in another market. They&#8217;ve got their own service. How do you perceive that competition? Have they told you what winning looks like?&#8221; </em></p><p>DR: <em>&#8220;You know, I think they&#8217;re figuring it out. I really do. And I take them at their word that they... Look, <strong>I think a word that they use pretty often is &#8216;optionality,&#8217; right?</strong> They have something pretty cool, right? They&#8217;ve got technology that works about as well as anyone&#8217;s in the world. You know, again, I think really only Baidu would be the real competition there. I think everybody else is some, you know, degree off of where they are. And it works and it works well and people like it. So that&#8217;s a good place to be. <strong>Thus, if you&#8217;re in that position and you think, &#8216;Well, gosh, I&#8217;m not really sure how this is all gonna play out,&#8217; a totally reasonable strategy is, well, let&#8217;s try a little bit of everything, right?</strong> Let&#8217;s try doing it ourselves end-to-end, let&#8217;s try partnering in a certain way with one company, let&#8217;s try partnering in a different way with another company, and we&#8217;ll kind of see. </em></p><p><em><strong>When I fast forward, I think a very likely outcome is they will realize, &#8216;Gosh,&#8217; as I just said, &#8216;Running a rideshare business is quite expensive and it&#8217;s very physical.&#8217;</strong> It involves, like, again, think of the scale, 800 million rides we do every single year, 50 million riders. You know, 1 1/2 million drivers &#8212; I know those aren&#8217;t part of the picture, but someone&#8217;s got to own those cars. There&#8217;s gonna be someone else in this picture who&#8217;s owning these things and wants these things utilized. <strong>You know, if you&#8217;re Google, do you want customer service? Do you want all these different things that you have to do to operate that service? Maybe you don&#8217;t mind it in a couple of markets &#8212; maybe it&#8217;s kind of cool, you can have direct access to your customers and you can do sort brand building and maybe get some data from it, whatever. All good. But do you really wanna do it in 280 cities around the United States or all around the world? I don&#8217;t know.</strong> So I think a very likely outcome is they will be, you know, frenemies, right? Or what&#8217;s that word, co-opetition or whatever. Like they&#8217;ll compete in some markets and in others they&#8217;ll partner. And our job is to be the best partner they can possibly have so that they, over time, give us more of their business and stay focused in their own way in some small number of markets.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>If Waymo were to only license a generalizable driver, could they still grow into their $126bn valuation? Perhaps they are locked into &#8220;going for it&#8221; as a byproduct of their valuation?</p><p>Based on some back-of-the-envelope math, it seems reasonable to think Waymo could grow into its valuation with just a generalizable driver. There are about 100mm passenger cars + light commercial vehicles sold annually around the world. If you assume AV tech can be licensed to all of them (a stretch over the near term, of course) for $2,500 per car, that would equate to a $250bn market. If Waymo could take 10% of that, you&#8217;d be looking at $25bn in revenue. That would generally support its current valuation (though it&#8217;s also a long ways off). </p><p>However, it&#8217;s also a good bet that smaller, on-demand delivery vehicles will also proliferate over this timeframe. That might unlock another tranche of vehicles into which Waymo could sell AV tech. Long-haul trucking is another clear opportunity. Robots, or even drones, could be other opportunities for Waymo (though different from driving, they are areas where Waymo&#8217;s &#8220;world models&#8221; could be leveraged). </p><p>Alex Immerman suggested on the <em>Sourcery</em> podcast that a16z, at least, views the future of AV software as most likely a &#8220;productive oligopoly&#8221;:</p><blockquote><p>Interviewer: <em>&#8220;From a deal perspective, I want to unpack the process. How do you underwrite a company like this? Do you look at Tesla?&#8221;</em></p><p>AI: <em>&#8220;So this is one where you have to think about a variety of scenarios off into the future. So to make it simple, I would frame it as there are three like base scenarios. The first is Waymo stays the only game in town. I certainly, like, hope that is the case. They have dominant market share of a market that grows quite significantly.</em></p><p><em>The second case is the market still grows significantly because it&#8217;s such a great value proposition &#8212; self-driving. However, there are multiple players. That might be a Tesla, it could be a Zoox, it could be a Wayve. There are Chinese players as well. But because of the technical challenges, I think it&#8217;s a productive oligopoly.</em></p><p><em>And then the third scenario is where things don&#8217;t work out as well for Waymo and, you know, maybe there&#8217;s impairment. Maybe one of those other providers has an advantage over them in the fullness of time. </em></p><p><em><strong>I think the most likely scenario of those is that it is a productive oligopoly. That there are many players but we expect Waymo to be a meaningful share of that overall market.</strong>&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>Reading between the lines, this would seem to suggest that a16z also believes that just Waymo&#8217;s generalizable driver tech could eventually support its current valuation.</p><p><em>Tesla</em></p><p>Tesla is a number of things these days. It&#8217;s of course an automaker that builds EVs. Its bestsellers are the Model 3 (sedan) and the Model Y (SUV), which together dominate EV sales in the US. </p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!z2Bi!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F11b2aa79-7cc2-4750-801b-143cdc807288_360x518.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!z2Bi!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F11b2aa79-7cc2-4750-801b-143cdc807288_360x518.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!z2Bi!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F11b2aa79-7cc2-4750-801b-143cdc807288_360x518.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!z2Bi!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F11b2aa79-7cc2-4750-801b-143cdc807288_360x518.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!z2Bi!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F11b2aa79-7cc2-4750-801b-143cdc807288_360x518.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!z2Bi!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F11b2aa79-7cc2-4750-801b-143cdc807288_360x518.png" width="360" height="518" 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F11b2aa79-7cc2-4750-801b-143cdc807288_360x518.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!z2Bi!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F11b2aa79-7cc2-4750-801b-143cdc807288_360x518.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!z2Bi!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F11b2aa79-7cc2-4750-801b-143cdc807288_360x518.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!z2Bi!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F11b2aa79-7cc2-4750-801b-143cdc807288_360x518.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" 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y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Tesla also sells a Class 8 electric truck called &#8220;The Semi.&#8221; The company runs Tesla Energy, which builds the Powerwall and Megapack batteries, and installs solar roofs. It is building the Optimus humanoid robot. They operate huge AI training clusters (for their self-driving efforts and training the Optimus). Tesla is even building its own semiconductor &#8220;fab,&#8221; or fabrication plant, in partnership with SpaceX and xAI that it has dubbed &#8220;Terafab.&#8221; The Terafab will cost an estimated $20-25bn and build Tesla&#8217;s fifth generation AI chip, with volume production targeted for 2027, in theory.</p><p>In 2025, the company sold ~1.6mm vehicles and generated $95bn in revenue. It ended 2025 with $44bn of cash on the balance sheet and $8bn of debt.</p><p>For our purposes, we will focus on Tesla&#8217;s efforts in self-driving and its Robotaxi initiative. Tesla has been working on self-driving tech since 2013. In 2014, Tesla began installing a single camera and radar system (developed by Mobileye) on its Model S. In 2015, Tesla launched &#8220;Autopilot,&#8221; which allowed cars to steer themselves on highways, a first of its kind &#8220;L2&#8221; system. In 2016, Tesla moved to Hardware 2 (HW2) which included the use of NVIDIA chips. In Oct-16, management famously promised that every car produced from that day forward had all the necessary hardware for full autonomous driving. In 2019, Tesla moved to a custom chip designed specifically for neural networks. In 2023, Tesla moved to &#8220;Version 12&#8221; of its self-driving software (which it used to refer to as FSD, for &#8220;Full Self Driving&#8221; &#8212; now it&#8217;s &#8220;Full Self Driving (Supervised)&#8221;). This was a step-change event, as it replaced hundreds of thousands of lines of human-written code with an end-to-end neural network. </p><p>In Oct-24, as Tesla started to approach L4 autonomy, it unveiled its &#8220;Cybercab.&#8221; The Cybercab is a purpose-built &#8220;robotaxi.&#8221; It has no steering wheel, pedals, or side mirrors. It also has no NACS charging port. Instead it&#8217;s charged &#8220;inductively&#8221; by parking over a charging pad. It has a relatively small 35 kWh battery that is optimized for city driving, and carries just ~200 miles of range. The Cybercab&#8217;s sensor suite is estimated to cost roughly $400. While Tesla will own its initial fleet of Cybercabs itself, they claim that third parties will be able to buy them starting in late 2026 for &#8220;under $30k.&#8221; </p><p>In Apr-26, the Cybercab officially went into mass production at Tesla&#8217;s new &#8220;Giga Texas&#8221; facility. Giga Texas is unique in that it employs an &#8220;unboxed&#8221; process. Instead of using a traditional linear assembly line, the car is built in separate &#8220;sub-modules&#8221; (the floor, the sides, the roof) which are then &#8220;snapped together&#8221; at the end. This has supposedly reduced the factory footprint by 40%. Giga Texas also has no paint shop. The Cybercab uses colored polyurethane body panels, where the color is &#8220;molded in.&#8221; The paint shop is typically one of the (if not the) most expensive and time-consuming parts of the car manufacturing process. Musk has said that Tesla intends to ultimately manufacture <a href="https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/teslas-grand-plan-for-the-future-is-a-car-with-no-steering-wheel-5e867137">two million</a> Cybercabs annually. </p><p>Tesla&#8217;s Robotaxi operation went live in Austin and the SF Bay Area in Jun-25 and Jul-25, respectively. It added Dallas and Houston in Apr-26, and Miami in Jul-26. </p><p>According to <a href="https://sherwood.news/tech/robotaxis-are-the-new-millennial-lifestyle-subsidy/">Morgan Stanley</a> research, Tesla&#8217;s Cybercab should already be in the ~$0.74 cost per mile range vs. Waymo in the ~$1.36 range, and rideshare in the ~$1.71 range. Personal car ownership, according to Morgan Stanley, is in the $0.71 range.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!LHW4!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd0d41765-ad13-40b7-b737-94670e1aec94_572x492.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!LHW4!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd0d41765-ad13-40b7-b737-94670e1aec94_572x492.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!LHW4!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd0d41765-ad13-40b7-b737-94670e1aec94_572x492.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!LHW4!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd0d41765-ad13-40b7-b737-94670e1aec94_572x492.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!LHW4!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd0d41765-ad13-40b7-b737-94670e1aec94_572x492.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!LHW4!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd0d41765-ad13-40b7-b737-94670e1aec94_572x492.png" width="572" height="492" 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd0d41765-ad13-40b7-b737-94670e1aec94_572x492.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!LHW4!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd0d41765-ad13-40b7-b737-94670e1aec94_572x492.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!LHW4!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd0d41765-ad13-40b7-b737-94670e1aec94_572x492.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!LHW4!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd0d41765-ad13-40b7-b737-94670e1aec94_572x492.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" 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y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>While the Robotaxi operation is &#8220;live,&#8221; it lags majorly behind Waymo in a number of different ways. </p><p>For starters, the vast majority of the cars in the fleet are supervised &#8212; there is a safety driver sitting in the driver&#8217;s seat ready to take over if the car encounters issues. Waymo has no safety drivers. Neither does Zoox, Avride, WeRide, etc.</p><p>Secondly, the Robotaxi fleet seems to be having a lot of incidents, based on the anecdotal evidence as well as reported crash figures. Anecdotally, you have stories like this one:</p><div class="twitter-embed" data-attrs="{&quot;url&quot;:&quot;https://x.com/TexasTSLA/status/2045678141146890365?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E2045678141146890365%7Ctwgr%5Ef131529408e799fafb38ea41f6a2b24b02d89437%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&amp;ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.businessinsider.com%2Ftesla-robotaxi-passenger-it-tried-to-pull-over-on-highway-2026-4&quot;,&quot;full_text&quot;:&quot;Welcome to Dallas bud &#128517;&#128517;&#129315;\n\nDear <span class=\&quot;tweet-fake-link\&quot;>@Tesla</span> FSD users have said multiple times nav and map data is &#129364;  and needs to be improved \n\n<span class=\&quot;tweet-fake-link\&quot;>@robotaxi</span>  misses its exit!\n\nROBOTAXI DRIVES ON THE HIGHWAY and freaks out!!\n\nTHEN TRIES TO PULL OVER AS TRAFFIC IS FLYING BY 80-90mph!!! \n\nRider &quot;,&quot;username&quot;:&quot;TexasTSLA&quot;,&quot;name&quot;:&quot;TexasTSLA&quot;,&quot;profile_image_url&quot;:&quot;https://pbs.substack.com/profile_images/1971255772395839489/jbwlxmLF_normal.jpg&quot;,&quot;date&quot;:&quot;2026-04-19T01:37:30.000Z&quot;,&quot;photos&quot;:[{&quot;img_url&quot;:&quot;https://substackcdn.com/image/upload/w_1028,c_limit,q_auto:best/l_twitter_play_button_rvaygk,w_88/hlgatdcmpyvjuxmeyowp&quot;,&quot;link_url&quot;:&quot;https://t.co/MNBTlarMlP&quot;}],&quot;quoted_tweet&quot;:{},&quot;reply_count&quot;:257,&quot;retweet_count&quot;:177,&quot;like_count&quot;:2217,&quot;impression_count&quot;:592260,&quot;expanded_url&quot;:null,&quot;video_url&quot;:&quot;https://video.twimg.com/amplify_video/2045677583191187456/vid/avc1/720x1280/evWEBiIyBx5vQfeD.mp4&quot;,&quot;video_preview_media_key&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true}" data-component-name="Twitter2ToDOM"></div><p>I covered this previously &#8212; it&#8217;s a lot of issues for one trip. <a href="https://youtu.be/vlJoU-yfSMs?t=414">Here</a> is a ride from Houston where the Robotaxi doesn&#8217;t make its exit (unclear why) and has to circle back 3 times (while performing 2 illegal U-turns). Someone actually compiled a whole <a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/SelfDrivingCars/comments/1ljxd63/list_of_clips_showing_teslas_robotaxi_incidents/">list</a> of incidents at one point. </p><p>In terms of the accident data, it&#8217;s hard to calculate exactly how frequently Tesla&#8217;s Robotaxis are crashing. From Jul-25 (when Tesla&#8217;s Robotaxi fleet began operating in Austin) through mid Mar-26, Tesla reported 18 crashes to the NHTSA, all in Austin. You can see the data <a href="https://www.nhtsa.gov/laws-regulations/standing-general-order-crash-reporting#data">here</a>, under &#8220;ADS Incident Report Data.&#8221; The problem is we don&#8217;t know the number of miles driven by the corresponding Robotaxi fleet. This would give us the incident rate (or accident per miles driven). </p><p>We do have this chart from the company&#8217;s Q1&#8217;26 earnings deck, showing us Tesla&#8217;s cumulative paid Robotaxi miles:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!fu-D!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F22184f4d-eb17-4f16-8dde-0608bfb10b4e_585x584.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!fu-D!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F22184f4d-eb17-4f16-8dde-0608bfb10b4e_585x584.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!fu-D!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F22184f4d-eb17-4f16-8dde-0608bfb10b4e_585x584.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!fu-D!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F22184f4d-eb17-4f16-8dde-0608bfb10b4e_585x584.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!fu-D!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F22184f4d-eb17-4f16-8dde-0608bfb10b4e_585x584.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!fu-D!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F22184f4d-eb17-4f16-8dde-0608bfb10b4e_585x584.png" width="585" height="584" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/22184f4d-eb17-4f16-8dde-0608bfb10b4e_585x584.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:584,&quot;width&quot;:585,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:78574,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/189172282?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F22184f4d-eb17-4f16-8dde-0608bfb10b4e_585x584.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!fu-D!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F22184f4d-eb17-4f16-8dde-0608bfb10b4e_585x584.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!fu-D!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F22184f4d-eb17-4f16-8dde-0608bfb10b4e_585x584.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!fu-D!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F22184f4d-eb17-4f16-8dde-0608bfb10b4e_585x584.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!fu-D!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F22184f4d-eb17-4f16-8dde-0608bfb10b4e_585x584.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>However, these figures likely include miles driven in the SF Bay Area (where Tesla&#8217;s been operating a commercial service since Sep-25). As mentioned above, there are zero accidents reported in the SF Bay Area (or anywhere other than Austin), so I&#8217;d guess the SF Bay Area accidents are not required to be reported (perhaps because in the SF Bay Area, the fleet operates under a limo/private charter permit and always carries a safety driver &#8212; thus it&#8217;s more of a chauffeured service). </p><p>Furthermore, the Robotaxi fleet in the SF Bay Area is actually much larger than the fleet in Austin according to <a href="https://robotaxitracker.com/">Robotaxi Tracker</a>. It seems the active fleet in the Bay Area has been something like ~4x larger than Austin&#8217;s on average since it launched. If we conservatively assume the miles traveled in Austin is 25% of the total cumulative miles (implying only 3x the number of cars in the Bay Area), that would mean ~375k miles were traveled in Austin. That would imply an incident rate of 18 / 375k miles or 1 incident per ~21k miles. If we assume that there were simply no crashes in the Bay Area, or that these cumulative miles are only Austin miles, then the incident rate would be 18 / 1.5mm miles or 1 incident every 83k miles. </p><p>In comparison, according to the NHTSA, the average human driver has 1 (police-reported) crash every 500k miles. Because this figure is based on police-reported crashes, the actual incident rate will be higher. Tesla&#8217;s own <a href="https://www.tesla.com/fsd/safety">Vehicle Safety Report</a> claims the average driver has a minor collision every 222k miles and a major collision every 660k miles:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Kpnp!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3bd6c8c3-6a7a-4a6e-9658-6c8bdaeeb3f1_1029x485.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Kpnp!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3bd6c8c3-6a7a-4a6e-9658-6c8bdaeeb3f1_1029x485.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Kpnp!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3bd6c8c3-6a7a-4a6e-9658-6c8bdaeeb3f1_1029x485.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Kpnp!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3bd6c8c3-6a7a-4a6e-9658-6c8bdaeeb3f1_1029x485.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Kpnp!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3bd6c8c3-6a7a-4a6e-9658-6c8bdaeeb3f1_1029x485.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Kpnp!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3bd6c8c3-6a7a-4a6e-9658-6c8bdaeeb3f1_1029x485.png" width="1029" height="485" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/3bd6c8c3-6a7a-4a6e-9658-6c8bdaeeb3f1_1029x485.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:485,&quot;width&quot;:1029,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:55925,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/189172282?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3bd6c8c3-6a7a-4a6e-9658-6c8bdaeeb3f1_1029x485.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Kpnp!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3bd6c8c3-6a7a-4a6e-9658-6c8bdaeeb3f1_1029x485.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Kpnp!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3bd6c8c3-6a7a-4a6e-9658-6c8bdaeeb3f1_1029x485.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Kpnp!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3bd6c8c3-6a7a-4a6e-9658-6c8bdaeeb3f1_1029x485.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Kpnp!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3bd6c8c3-6a7a-4a6e-9658-6c8bdaeeb3f1_1029x485.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Thus, it seems at best the Tesla Robotaxi is ~3x worse than the average human driver (1 incident every ~83k miles vs. 1 incident every ~222k miles). More likely, however, is that Tesla&#8217;s Robotaxi is more like ~10x worse (1 incident every ~21k miles vs. 1 incident every ~222k miles).</p><p>Making this even worse is the fact that the vast majority of Robotaxi trips to date have been supervised (i.e. there have been safety drivers behind the wheel). Thus, we can only assume that incident rates would have been even worse &#8212; perhaps much worse &#8212; if these cars had actually been fully autonomous. </p><p>This says nothing of:</p><ol><li><p>Robotaxi <a href="https://www.wired.com/story/tesla-says-its-robotaxis-are-sometimes-driven-by-humans/">reportedly</a> features a &#8220;hidden backbone of teleoperators who can pilot the vehicles remotely when needed.&#8221; &#8220;Remoting in&#8221; to drive a vehicle is considered highly unsafe. Waymo and others are very clear that while customer support can be reached to help with certain things, they never drive the car remotely. Driving the car remotely is highly dangerous due to latency issues and potential gaps in cellular service.  </p></li><li><p>Existing Teslas, which Musk claims can be added to the Robotaxi fleet with the touch of a button, may not have the necessary redundancies to be AVs at all. To be an L4 AV, a vehicle needs overlapping sensors, more than one power source, redundant braking and steering, and two compute stacks. Thus, if any of these &#8220;points of failure&#8221; fail, the car can still drive (and safely pull over). According to this <a href="https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/lucid-rivian-tesla-self-driving-cars.html">article</a>, Tesla&#8217;s Models S, X, Y and 3 may not have this type of redundancy: &#8220;Because Tesla is Tesla, it doesn&#8217;t share a lot of information about what&#8217;s underneath the skin of its vehicles. Independent reporting and teardowns have turned up some information about redundant systems. The full steer-by-wire system used on the Cybertruck features redundant power and controls, with two motors incorporated into the steering rack, likely fed by separate power sources. It&#8217;s a good bet that a similar system is used on the controls-free Cybercab that Tesla plans to deploy as part of its Robotaxi service. Note that redundancy like this is not present on the Models S, X, Y or 3 that came before the Cybertruck. And without such backups, many of the Full Self-Driving promises simply could not have been fulfilled safely.&#8221;</p></li><li><p>In order to sell the Cybercab, Tesla needs approval from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHSTA), as the Cybercab lacks a steering wheel, pedals and side mirrors (i.e. the Cybercab is not compliant with NHSTA regulations). NHTSA grants exemptions to automakers to sell vehicles not fully in compliance, but caps these sales at 2,500 per year. According to the <a href="https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/teslas-grand-plan-for-the-future-is-a-car-with-no-steering-wheel-5e867137">WSJ</a>, NHSTA indicated that as of Mar-26, Tesla hasn&#8217;t yet applied for an exemption on the Cybercab. </p></li><li><p>Elon&#8217;s <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_predictions_for_autonomous_Tesla_vehicles_by_Elon_Musk">long list</a> of false promises re self-driving</p></li></ol><p>Tesla&#8217;s &#8220;Achilles heel&#8221; when it comes to self-driving may be its insistence on a camera-only sensor suite. The Robotaxi and the latest Model 3s / Model Ys come equipped with 8 cameras, but no radar or LiDAR. Elon&#8217;s view seems to be that because humans drive with their eyes only, a machine with 8 cameras and a neural net should be able to drive just as well, if not much better. The problem with this, as discussed earlier, is that (1) we don&#8217;t know how long it will take to get this to work and (2) this doesn&#8217;t seem like a recipe for &#8220;superhuman&#8221; safety and could result in a substantially less safe product than Waymo and others.</p><p>Here is Dara from a Mar-26 <em>HD in HD</em> podcast:</p><blockquote><p>DK: <em>&#8220;I think Tesla is &#8212; they have gotten the hardware bill of materials to an industry-leading level in the US. The Chinese OEMs can match it and then some. But in the US, in terms of bill of materials, Tesla&#8217;s a leader. What they haven&#8217;t yet proven is that a camera only system can be safe enough as it relates to AV. And you know time will tell on that one.&#8221;</em></p><p>Interviewer: <em>&#8220;Why do you think that that&#8217;s the hill Elon dies on?&#8221;</em></p><p>DK: <em>&#8220;I think that he thinks from a first principals standpoint and fact is human drivers have two eyes and they can drive. So why can&#8217;t a car which is a computer with wheels and that has eight eyes, do the same? <strong>Now, eventually that sounds right. But the question is over the next 5 years, over the next 10 years as AV is developing, are they going to get there quick enough?</strong> I think the other thing that probably has taken some folks by surprise is that the cost of LiDAR and radar &#8212; the cost for LiDAR has come from like $40,000 down to a couple hundred. So the hardware curves have come down probably faster than the industry expected.&#8221;</em></p><p>Interviewer: <em>&#8220;So why not just add a LiDAR there?&#8230;&#8221;</em></p><p>DK: <em>&#8220;Yeah, I can&#8217;t speak for him. I mean, <strong>the one thing I would say is Tesla is economically motivated to make L3 plus or L4 work for the fleet that they already have on the ground. So, that could be a factor</strong>.&#8221;</em> </p></blockquote><p>As mentioned above, in Oct-16 Tesla began promising that all of its cars manufactured with HW2 had all the hardware necessary to achieve L4 autonomy. Tesla would eventually have to walk that back. Then, more recently, in Q1&#8217;26, it had to walk back that cars manufactured with HW3 would be able to achieve L4 autonomy. On the earnings call, management floated the idea of setting up &#8220;micro factories&#8221; around the world that could swap HW3 with HW4.</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;Unfortunately, Hardware 3 -- I wish it were otherwise, but <strong>Hardware 3 simply does not have the capability to achieve unsupervised FSD.</strong> We did think at one point it would have that, but relative to Hardware 4, it has only 1/8 of the memory bandwidth of Hardware 4. And memory bandwidth is one of the key elements needed for unsupervised FSD. It&#8217;s just generally a thing that&#8217;s needed for AI. If you&#8217;re doing an autoregressive transformer, memory bandwidth is the choke point.</em></p><p><em>So for customers that have bought FSD, what we&#8217;re offering is essentially a trade-in -- like a discounted trade-in for cars that have AI4 hardware, and we&#8217;ll also be offering the ability to upgrade the car, to replace the computer. And you also need to replace the cameras, unfortunately, to go to Hardware 4.</em></p><p><em><strong>So to do this efficiently, we&#8217;re going to have to set up like kind of micro factories or small factories in major metropolitan areas in order to do it efficiently.</strong> Because if it&#8217;s done just at the service center, it is extremely slow to do so and inefficient. So we basically need like many production lines to make the change. And I do think, over time, it&#8217;s going to make sense for us to convert all Hardware 3 cars to Hardware 4 because that&#8217;s what enables them to enter the Robotaxi fleet and have unsupervised FSD.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>If Tesla ultimately admits that they cannot achieve L4 without radar/LiDAR, then Tesla would have to somehow <a href="https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/car-owners-are-revolting-over-teslas-self-driving-promises-b76edcdd?mod=hp_lead_pos8">remedy</a> this, which could be quite painful. Thus Tesla has boxed itself in, to a degree, to making L4 work with a camera-only sensor suite.</p><p>This <a href="https://youtu.be/mIK1Y8ssXnU?t=604">clip</a> from Rivian&#8217;s autonomy day does a nice job of explaining the power of a &#8220;multi-modal&#8221; sensor suite that includes cameras, radar and LiDAR. While the cameras are undoubtedly the workhorse sensors for autonomy, they struggle in &#8220;non-ideal&#8221; lighting conditions such as low light, excessive light and fog. In such cases, radar and LiDAR can help fill in the gaps. Radar and LiDAR also provide richer, more accurate data around the depth and velocity of objects that surround the car.</p><p>The video below of a Tesla hitting a deer while in FSD mode shows how challenging it may be to achieve self-driving with cameras only (this is from Oct-24 granted, so it&#8217;s &#8220;dated&#8221;). It&#8217;s dark, the deer is only visible for a few seconds before impact (with the car on the highway, and accelerating, it would&#8217;ve been impossible to avoid impact at all, even for a human driver), it&#8217;s mostly the deer&#8217;s butt showing (making it harder to recognize) and it somehow blends in with a patch of unpaved road on the highway.</p><div class="twitter-embed" data-attrs="{&quot;url&quot;:&quot;https://x.com/TheSeekerOf42/status/1850750169169760686&quot;,&quot;full_text&quot;:&quot;Video is cut right before sensitive things appear on screen. Safe to watch. &quot;,&quot;username&quot;:&quot;TheSeekerOf42&quot;,&quot;name&quot;:&quot;Paul S&quot;,&quot;profile_image_url&quot;:&quot;https://pbs.substack.com/profile_images/1373696598660816897/1aeb79D__normal.jpg&quot;,&quot;date&quot;:&quot;2024-10-28T04:03:20.000Z&quot;,&quot;photos&quot;:[{&quot;img_url&quot;:&quot;https://substackcdn.com/image/upload/w_1028,c_limit,q_auto:best/l_twitter_play_button_rvaygk,w_88/h0emnaumrplszntahoqy&quot;,&quot;link_url&quot;:&quot;https://t.co/FaXD6Gr68S&quot;}],&quot;quoted_tweet&quot;:{},&quot;reply_count&quot;:233,&quot;retweet_count&quot;:42,&quot;like_count&quot;:537,&quot;impression_count&quot;:291869,&quot;expanded_url&quot;:null,&quot;video_url&quot;:&quot;https://video.twimg.com/amplify_video/1850750109908336640/vid/avc1/960x720/kZ5JQQig0wXT6VU1.mp4?tag=16&quot;,&quot;video_preview_media_key&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true}" data-component-name="Twitter2ToDOM"></div><p>The Tesla software simply doesn&#8217;t recognize the deer at all (the car reportedly didn&#8217;t slow down at all before impact). However, in theory, every other AV player (using radar/LiDAR) would have clearly seen (before the headlights even shined on the deer) that a meaningful object was in the road and avoided an accident. </p><p>This example demonstrates how Tesla may be fundamentally constrained from achieving a superhuman level of driving by not adopting radar/LiDAR. We also have the fact that literally nobody else is building a cameras-only AV at this point, which suggests that everyone else thinks this is the worse approach.</p><p>Elon (to his credit?) on Tesla&#8217;s Q1&#8217;26 earnings call, basically all but admits that the company&#8217;s self-driving tech is still a ways off:</p><blockquote><p>Questioner: <em>&#8220;The next question is, is v14.3 still the last piece of the puzzle to enable large-scale unsupervised FSD and Robotaxi? Or do we have to wait until V15?&#8221;</em></p><p>Elon Musk: <em>&#8220;Well, I think 14.3 is last piece of the puzzle for unsupervised FSD. Now the question is like degrees of safety. Like how &#8212; safety and convenience, I suppose. <strong>We have a lot of known improvements &#8212; like major architectural improvements that we know would improve the probability of safety significantly. So I think it&#8217;s not going to make sense for us to deploy unsupervised FSD or Robotaxi at large scale when we know that there are major architectural improvements to the software that can improve safety.</strong></em></p><p><em>So I think we&#8217;re going to want to finish writing that software, validate it and release it before going to large-scale unsupervised FSD. Depending on what large scale means. I mean we are, of course, as I mentioned earlier, doing unsupervised FSD in 3 cities, and we&#8217;ll expand to, like I said, probably a dozen states or more later this year. So it kind of depends on what your definition of large scale is. But I do think it wouldn&#8217;t be right for us to go to like very large scale unsupervised FSD when we know that there are software improvements in the pipeline that would improve safety.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>All together, Tesla seems not ready to deploy a large-scale, unsurprised fleet of robotaxis for some time. I&#8217;d say they are officially behind Waymo, WeRide, Pony.ai and Apollo Go. I think it&#8217;s likely Tesla also falls behind at least NVIDIA as well over the coming years.</p><p>Here is Uber&#8217;s official position on Tesla&#8217;s L4 timeline from CFO Balaji Krishnamurthy from a Feb-26 interview with <em><a href="https://youtu.be/WaIFxrojliE?t=467">The Information</a></em>:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;I would just come back to where they are today which is <strong>based on [Tesla&#8217;s] publicly reported data, their incident rate is effectively where Waymos&#8217; incident rates were in Q1 of 2023. So on that basis, it looks like they&#8217;re about 3 years behind.</strong> And you know we&#8217;re not saying that Tesla is not going to get there. It&#8217;s entirely likely and possible that they would be there. But in that time there are going to be other players who will also deliver commercially deployable autonomous solutions and we have the broadest set of partnerships, right? We have 20 partners. We are looking forward to bringing them to the 15 markets we&#8217;ve talked about this year and that number is only going to go up in the coming years. And on our platform the utilization and revenue generation capacity is going to be higher than any anyone else&#8217;s. So we&#8217;ll compete on that.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>From Uber&#8217;s standpoint, Tesla looks to be ~3 years behind Waymo. This seems about right.</p><h4>Autonomous Transition</h4><p><em>The Peak-to-Trough Issue</em></p><p>Rideshare demand is, of course, variable. It varies a lot over the course of a day &#8212; peaking during afternoon rush hour and troughing in the middle of the night. It varies over the course of a week &#8212; Friday generally sees peak demand, and Sunday trough demand. From Uber&#8217;s Q4&#8217;24 AV Spotlight:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!04UZ!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0d4b09a3-b7d7-4c86-855f-57b871f12a33_946x530.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!04UZ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0d4b09a3-b7d7-4c86-855f-57b871f12a33_946x530.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!04UZ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0d4b09a3-b7d7-4c86-855f-57b871f12a33_946x530.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!04UZ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0d4b09a3-b7d7-4c86-855f-57b871f12a33_946x530.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!04UZ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0d4b09a3-b7d7-4c86-855f-57b871f12a33_946x530.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!04UZ!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0d4b09a3-b7d7-4c86-855f-57b871f12a33_946x530.png" width="946" height="530" 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0d4b09a3-b7d7-4c86-855f-57b871f12a33_946x530.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!04UZ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0d4b09a3-b7d7-4c86-855f-57b871f12a33_946x530.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!04UZ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0d4b09a3-b7d7-4c86-855f-57b871f12a33_946x530.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!04UZ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0d4b09a3-b7d7-4c86-855f-57b871f12a33_946x530.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Demand also varies over the course of a year &#8212; it generally peaks in the spring and fall, while summer tends to be relatively slow.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!6NJw!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F50eb5107-5ad2-4bba-94b8-42e5092f1f39_952x531.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!6NJw!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, 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/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!6NJw!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F50eb5107-5ad2-4bba-94b8-42e5092f1f39_952x531.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!6NJw!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F50eb5107-5ad2-4bba-94b8-42e5092f1f39_952x531.png" width="952" height="531" 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F50eb5107-5ad2-4bba-94b8-42e5092f1f39_952x531.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!6NJw!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F50eb5107-5ad2-4bba-94b8-42e5092f1f39_952x531.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!6NJw!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F50eb5107-5ad2-4bba-94b8-42e5092f1f39_952x531.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!6NJw!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F50eb5107-5ad2-4bba-94b8-42e5092f1f39_952x531.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" 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y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Thus, as an AV-only provider, you have an issue. Do you carry enough cars to fulfill demand at peaks (but then leave many cars idling during troughs) or do you limit your fleet size to keep cars generally better utilized (but deliver poor ETAs during peak periods)?</p><p>Here is commentary from Uber&#8217;s Q4&#8217;24 supplemental:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;Finally, assuming that all four of the aforementioned commercialization issues have been addressed, AV operators will face another daunting challenge: the highly variable nature of ridesharing demand, which has large peaks and troughs throughout the day, week, month, and year. Any standalone player with a fixed depreciating asset will need to build against that reality: choosing between running a highly underutilized network (if supply is built for peak demand) or a highly unreliable network at peak periods (if supply is built for anything less than peak). </em></p><p><em>For instance, in a typical large city, a fixed fleet designed to meet the weekly peak will have up to 95% of vehicles idle during the multiple weekly troughs. Conversely, a fleet sized below peak cannot deliver the reliable 4-minute ETAs that consumers expect. This dilemma is compounded by the fact that vehicle supply will need to vary dramatically throughout the year: in many North American cities, demand peaks around March and trends down through the summer, only rebounding in the fall. Weekly peaks may be 50%+ higher than the lowest week of the year. On top of that, supply will need to constantly grow to meet overall industry expansion (Uber is still growing near 20% YoY), the trajectory of which is non-linear. This could mean that a fixed network that is well supplied in March may find itself idling a third or more of its vehicles for several months, until Halloween. Because demand patterns look similar (although not identical) between cities, underutilized vehicles cannot be easily repositioned and will likely sit unused for months, generating additional cost and complexity&#8212;against zero revenue. </em></p><p><em>Given the scale of the Uber platform, and human drivers&#8217; ability to dynamically fulfill demand spikes&#8212;and take a break during demand troughs&#8212;partnering with Uber allows AV players to move much faster than they could on their own. <strong>This fact gives us confidence that the Uber network, with a hybrid of AV and human drivers, will deliver the highest asset utilization and revenue generation opportunity for our partners.</strong>&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>In the geos in which it operates, Waymo has chosen to keep its fleet relatively constrained so far. This helps drive a better utilization on its vehicles (take it from Bill Gurley):</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!0Enj!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe3ada08e-38f1-42fb-856a-52671d7594cf_1718x2196.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!0Enj!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe3ada08e-38f1-42fb-856a-52671d7594cf_1718x2196.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!0Enj!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe3ada08e-38f1-42fb-856a-52671d7594cf_1718x2196.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!0Enj!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe3ada08e-38f1-42fb-856a-52671d7594cf_1718x2196.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!0Enj!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe3ada08e-38f1-42fb-856a-52671d7594cf_1718x2196.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!0Enj!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe3ada08e-38f1-42fb-856a-52671d7594cf_1718x2196.png" width="598" height="764.3392857142857" 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe3ada08e-38f1-42fb-856a-52671d7594cf_1718x2196.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!0Enj!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe3ada08e-38f1-42fb-856a-52671d7594cf_1718x2196.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!0Enj!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe3ada08e-38f1-42fb-856a-52671d7594cf_1718x2196.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!0Enj!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe3ada08e-38f1-42fb-856a-52671d7594cf_1718x2196.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" 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it also, as Alex Immerman (an investor in Waymo) points out, allows Waymo to take advantage of some physical world first-mover advantages.</p><p>The optimal level of AVs to carry, I believe, is around ~1.0x average demand. If you go below that, say optimizing for 0.4x demand, your fleet will be better utilized (during troughs, the majority of your fleet would still be utilized), but (1) you&#8217;d leave a lot of money on the table and (2) customers would switch to providers with better ETAs. If you go above that, say optimizing for 1.4x demand, the majority of your fleet would sit idle during troughs, which would spoil your ROICs.</p><p><em>How Close are Uber&#8217;s Partners to L4?</em></p><p>Technically already crossed the L4 threshold:</p><ul><li><p>Apollo Go. Apollo Go is owned by Baidu, the Chinese internet/search giant. Apollo Go is the largest operator currently in China with <a href="https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/china-robotaxi-self-driving-waymo-254ce0a1?gaa_at=eafs&amp;gaa_n=AWEtsqf3zA8bBHblA5zQ5hZKwvhjmen5ZzX67dZcEhPqpwIYQQYXAqfzJOOandfMpMY%3D&amp;gaa_ts=69d3edf3&amp;gaa_sig=WcFcFZ-9DM8tcQ3HVys160OwKzADOyImnVGedi4XvaqsDxyqIdOeyFxRtJO76PDDWkNlcZdJ6m8B2xl2OaYIXA%3D%3D">more than 1,000</a> driverless vehicles in operation. Their weekly ride count surpassed <a href="https://investor.uber.com/news-events/news/press-release-details/2026/Baidu-and-Uber-Partner-to-Bring-Apollo-Go-Autonomous-Ride-hailing-to-Dubai-in-Collaboration-with-Dubais-Roads-and-Transport-Authority/default.aspx">250k</a> in Feb-26. The company is in the process of expanding into the Middle East, Southeast Asia and Europe (it already operates a driver-out commercial service with Uber in Dubai and Abu Dhabi). It hopes to have <a href="https://www.economist.com/business/2025/11/26/why-china-is-pulling-ahead-in-the-robotaxi-race">20,000</a> robotaxis operating worldwide by 2027, including more than <a href="https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/weride-aims-to-have-up-1-000-robotaxis-in-middle-east-in-2026-2c27d9d8?gaa_at=eafs&amp;gaa_n=AWEtsqeSzjQZ0kd96sLk0fMQwaPvj6Vt8dj3hu0i87cA5GS7WMophn8ftQlkszoIFQE%3D&amp;gaa_ts=69d3edf3&amp;gaa_sig=d8AYZsG4CGuWgdgnO-Z4NL9oYx-UfjiXVtXObg3IT4DvikBcZsjXsAT9ro4zd4Bc-hGX9dKEnCAHLXOQyskkaA%3D%3D">1,000</a> vehicles in Dubai by early 2028. Baidu&#8217;s RT6, built by Jiangling (a Chinese carmaker), reportedly costs just $30k. In H2&#8217;26, Apollo Go is slated to begin testing a robotaxi pilot in <a href="https://techcrunch.com/2025/12/22/uber-and-lyft-to-test-baidu-robotaxis-in-london-next-year-joining-waymo/">London</a> (with the RT6) in partnership with both Uber and Lyft. </p></li><li><p>WeRide. WeRide is a public company listed on Nasdaq and based in Guangzhou, China. As of <a href="https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/weride-using-ai-to-cut-costs-as-it-grows-robotaxi-fleet-c7e9d390?gaa_at=eafs&amp;gaa_n=AWEtsqf0aJQNP2XEazo0Rtsq1o-O5YxiU3f2GU220CckB5syVZ4QL-CdS9GtX2UtZRE%3D&amp;gaa_ts=69d3edf3&amp;gaa_sig=xh7qmpgDkacvv_DFjP_WO1AW7eFNaQBtY64eHIE-WI6vlDy-jvSrNmQtVPVvazmDzq2znlPZnq7NbWGUCVRpPw%3D%3D">Jan-26</a>, the company had more than 1,000 vehicles operating worldwide. It hopes to grow that figure to 2-3,000 by the end of 2026, and tens of thousands by 2030. It aims to have between <a href="https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/weride-aims-to-have-up-1-000-robotaxis-in-middle-east-in-2026-2c27d9d8?gaa_at=eafs&amp;gaa_n=AWEtsqeSzjQZ0kd96sLk0fMQwaPvj6Vt8dj3hu0i87cA5GS7WMophn8ftQlkszoIFQE%3D&amp;gaa_ts=69d3edf3&amp;gaa_sig=d8AYZsG4CGuWgdgnO-Z4NL9oYx-UfjiXVtXObg3IT4DvikBcZsjXsAT9ro4zd4Bc-hGX9dKEnCAHLXOQyskkaA%3D%3D">500-1,000</a> robotaxis operating in the Middle East alone by the end of 2026. WeRide already operates a commercial robotaxi service on behalf of Uber in Dubai, Abu Dhabi and Riyadh. In Jun-26, WeRide and Uber announced that they would launch a commercial robotaxi operation in Madrid, their first joint partnership in Europe. The service is slated to begin operations before the end of 2026. The two companies have outlined a partnership to bring joint operations to 15 cities by 2030 (with Madrid marking the fourth such city).</p></li><li><p>Pony.ai. Pony, like WeRide, is also a Nasdaq-listed public company based in Guangzhou. Pony had <a href="https://www.wsj.com/business/chinese-robotaxi-companies-shares-fall-in-hong-kong-debut-a03c97f6?gaa_at=eafs&amp;gaa_n=AWEtsqc_7J0MNAog-MiUJ9o9Nuzq0xmmG6F0a-d-rl5wLK4lht2SRAlTMz9NrPPbpJU%3D&amp;gaa_ts=69d41f9a&amp;gaa_sig=CsRxqO0ScvU9lbB1hQVd6tgsbBy4msRlkNt6bQUKv5M6f72pP7zwVdH5IBB5r1Rc1MdkITddNhBoFvdJHzQoVQ%3D%3D">~1,000</a> vehicles in operation at the end of 2025. They are targeting <a href="/__u/substack.com/inbox/post/195430784">3,000+</a> by year-end 2026. The company has formed a partnership with Stellantis to deploy AVs in Europe, and launched Europe&#8217;s first commercial AV service with Uber in Zagreb, Croatia in Apr-26 (using cars from Chinese automaker Arcfox). The ODD was initially ~35 square miles across the Zagreb city center, and including the Zagreb airport. In Apr-26, Pony announced that it had switched to driverless in Dubai (commercial service targeted for H2&#8217;26). They also announced that their next-generation robotaxi in China will cost <a href="/__u/substack.com/inbox/post/195430784">~$33k</a>, including the cost of AV hardware. Further, the company has a partnership with Toyota. The two companies are targeting the deployment of <a href="https://www.morningstar.com/news/pr-newswire/20260424cn42262/ponyai-drives-commercialization-at-scale-with-lower-cost-robotaxis-and-new-l4-light-truck">1,000</a> Toyota bZ4X Gen-7 robotaxis by the end of 2026 in China.</p></li></ul><p>Probably get there soon:</p><ul><li><p>Nuro. Nuro was founded in 2016 by two ex-Waymo engineers &#8212; Jiajun Zhu (&#8220;JZ&#8221;) and Dave Ferguson. The company is based in Mountain View, CA, and has raised a total of ~$2.2bn since its founding. Its original strategy was to build vertically integrated delivery bots, and it signed partnerships with Kroger, Domino&#8217;s, CVS, 7-Eleven and Uber. In 2024, however, in the face of a dearth of funding options and a very capital intensive business plan, they pivoted to a strategy of licensing the Nuro Driver to car OEMs/the robotaxi market. Nuro most recently raised at an $6bn valuation in Aug-25. Recent investors have included Uber, Baillie Gifford, NVIDIA, T. Rowe Price, Fidelity, Tiger Global and Greylock. In Jul-25, Nuro announced a joint partnership with Lucid and Uber to deploy 20,000+ Lucid vehicles with the Nuro Driver on Uber across &#8220;dozens&#8221; of markets. In Apr-26, Uber increased its purchase commitment to at least 35,000 Lucid vehicles (both commitments are based on Nuro/Lucid hitting certain milestones). Nuro has one of the strongest safety records in AV tech. The company has logged over 1.7mm autonomous miles on public roads with zero at-fault incidents or injuries. As mentioned previously, the Uber/Lucid/Nuro commercial service is slated to launch in H2&#8217;26 across the SF Bay Area. It stands to be Uber&#8217;s first robust, driverless commercial offering outside of Waymo in the US. It should be noted that Toyota&#8217;s VC arm, Woven Capital, is also an investor in Nuro. In Mar-26, it was reported that Nuro was testing its autonomous software in Tokyo with the Toyota Prius. A partnership with Toyota, the largest carmaker in the world by far, would clearly be a big win for Nuro (Waymo, it should be noted, has also been testing with Toyota). According to Gemini, Nuro has been primarily testing in Mountain View, Palo Alto, the broader SF Bay Area and Houston. According to Gemini&#8217;s review of Nuro&#8217;s twitter account, the company has been on &#8220;road trips&#8221; to Los Angeles, Austin and Phoenix. This may suggest that these cities are in line for 2027 deployments.  </p></li><li><p>Wayve. Wayve was founded (and spun out of the University of Cambridge) in 2017 by Alex Kendall and Amar Shah. The company is based in London and has raised a total of $2.5bn over its lifetime. Wayve is considered one of the pioneers of &#8220;AV 2.0.&#8221; The company employs a giant neural net that learns to drive purely from raw data inputs (i.e. there&#8217;s no rules-based logic programmed into their driver), similar to how a LLM learns language. Further, the technology does not rely on extremely detailed, high-definition maps like Waymo. It employs a &#8220;mapless&#8221; approach that can adapt to a new city or vehicle in weeks, supposedly. In Feb-26, Wayve raised $1.2bn at a $8.6bn valuation from investors including Mercedes-Benz, Stellantis and Nissan. Investors from prior rounds include Uber, NVIDIA, Microsoft, SoftBank and Balderton (a London-based VC firm). As part of the round, Uber outlined plans to invest as much as $300m into a Wayve-powered robotaxi fleet to be deployed in 10 cities across multiple countries, including London and Tokyo (cities which are slated go live in H2&#8217;26). Wayve also has plans to integrate its ADAS (or L2++) tech into Nissan vehicles (slated for production in 2027) and Stellantis vehicles (slated for 2028). </p></li><li><p>Waabi. Waabi is first and foremost a self-driving trucking software provider (though it also plans to service the self-driving car market). It was founded in 2021 and is based in Toronto. In Jan-26, Waabi raised a $750m Series C at a <a href="https://www.ft.com/content/de1c4b96-3015-4f32-8e44-fb475a7deb87?syn-25a6b1a6=1">$3bn</a> valuation co-led by Khosla Ventures, G2 Venture Partners and Uber (which invested $250m). The round has an option to be upsized by an additional $250m from Uber based on milestones that would support the deployment of 25k Waabi-powered robotaxis on the Uber platform. There was no timeline provided for the potential robotaxi rollout. The company&#8217;s CEO, Raquel Urtasun, was previously the Chief Scientist at Uber&#8217;s autonomous division, Uber ATG. Waabi already had a partnership with Uber Freight on the autonomous trucking side &#8212; Waabi has been running commercial trucking pilots on the Uber Freight network since 2023. One of Waabi&#8217;s key differentiators is &#8220;Waabi World,&#8221; an &#8220;ultra-realistic&#8221; genAI simulator. Using Waabi World, the company is supposedly able to significantly reduce its need for real-world testing while also enhancing safety performance. Waabi World supposedly has a 99.7% success rate when it comes to mimicking real-world physics. </p></li></ul><p>Big Boys:</p><ul><li><p>NVIDIA. The $5tn mkt cap chip giant, NVIDIA, is also a &#8220;full-stack&#8221; AV tech provider. NVIDIA offers a full &#8220;soup-to-nuts&#8221; solution &#8212; the hardware, the system architecture, and the AV software (including data, training and simulation). Mercedes, for example, is a full-stack customer. Customers can also work with NVIDIA in just certain parts of the stack. Despite NVIDIA being a competitor of Tesla&#8217;s in AV software, Tesla is actually NVIDIA&#8217;s largest customer in automotive due to their partnership in training.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-47" href="#footnote-47" target="_self">47</a> Nuro, Waabi and Wayve are &#8220;frenemies,&#8221; building on top of NVIDIA&#8217;s Hyperion platform and using pieces of NVIDIA&#8217;s broader AV offering. At CES in Jan-26, NVIDIA launched Alpamayo, a &#8220;family of open AI models, simulation tools and datasets designed to accelerate the next era of safe, reasoning&#8209;based autonomous vehicle (AV) development.&#8221; Alpamayo seems to be &#8220;quasi&#8221; open source. The software is free to use, and in the future should get you all the way to L4 autonomy. You can even use it with your hardware of choice (i.e. you don&#8217;t need to use NVIDIA chips in-car). But to train the model and run simulations for your specific vehicle (apparently all car OEMs will need to do this to get production-ready), you&#8217;ll need to work with NVIDIA chips.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-48" href="#footnote-48" target="_self">48</a><a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-49" href="#footnote-49" target="_self">49</a><a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-50" href="#footnote-50" target="_self">50</a> At NVIDIA&#8217;s Mar-26 GTC conference, Uber and NVIDIA announced &#8220;an expanded partnership to launch a fleet of autonomous vehicles entirely powered by the full-stack NVIDIA DRIVE AV software across 28 cities and four continents by 2028.&#8221; The rollout will begin with LA and the SF Bay Area in H1&#8217;27. Car OEMs are TBD, but could include any OEMs building on NVIDIA&#8217;s Hyperion platform (which includes NVIDIA compute and a pre-validated/open reference sensor suite/architecture). These OEMs include Mercedes, Lucid, Stellantis, Nissan, Hyundai, BYD and Geely.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-51" href="#footnote-51" target="_self">51</a><a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-52" href="#footnote-52" target="_self">52</a> Jensen mentioned at the Jan-26 CES that NVIDIA had been working on self-driving for at least 6-7 years (including 5 years in partnership with Mercedes). </p></li><li><p>Zoox. Zoox was founded in 2014, and is headquartered in Foster City, CA. Amazon acquired Zoox in Jun-20 for ~$1.2bn. Zoox&#8217;s AVs are designed in-house and purpose built to be &#8220;robotaxis.&#8221; The Zoox vehicles are toaster-shaped, aloe-green, feature carriage-style seating, and drive &#8220;bidirectionally&#8221; (i.e. there is technically no &#8220;front&#8221; or &#8220;back&#8221; of the vehicle). In late 2025, Zoox launched limited robotaxi services in Las Vegas and SF. The Zoox service in SF came with a very limited ODD (parts of SoMA, the Mission, the Design District). In Mar-26, Zoox quadrupled its SF service area to include the Marina, North Beach, Chinatown, Pacific Heights and along the Embarcadero. In 2025, Zoox opened a 220k facility in Hayward, CA capable of producing <a href="https://www.ft.com/content/d02bc635-4cec-451e-8619-080cfae8b020?syn-25a6b1a6=1">5k robotaxis annually</a>, with the aim to eventually ramp to 10k. Zoox has so far partnered with Uber in Las Vegas (set to launch summer 2026) and Los Angeles (by mid-2027). Zoox intends to keep the SF market exclusively 1P to Zoox. Further, the company intends to make Zoox bookable through their 1P app in all markets, including Las Vegas and Los Angeles. Zoox recently launched limited offerings in Austin and Miami (without Uber), which makes for four markets served in total. Zoox is currently mapping and building a presence in at least eight additional US cities, including Dallas and Phoenix. </p></li></ul><p>OEM-owned efforts:</p><ul><li><p>VW. In Apr-25, VW and Uber announced plans to deploy &#8220;thousands of all-electric, fully autonomous ID. Buzz AD vehicles within multiple US markets over the next decade, starting in Los Angeles.&#8221; These vehicles are essentially minivans, and my understanding is that VW plans to operate them as ride-pooling shuttles. Testing began in 2025, with a commercial launch expected in 2026. As of <a href="https://www.engadget.com/transportation/evs/uber-begins-testing-its-volkswagen-id-buzz-robotaxi-fleet-in-la-120000762.html">Apr-26</a>, VW was still on track to launch the LA pilot by the end of 2026 (with safety drivers). It&#8217;s unclear what the initial ODD will be, but VW plans to expand to &#8220;multiple US markets.&#8221; The autonomous tech is powered by Mobileye, a long-time ADAS provider based in Israel and founded in 1999. &#8220;Pre-series&#8221; production has started on the autonomous ID. Buzz AD at the company&#8217;s Hanover plant (targeting 500 vehicles by the end of 2026). Large-scale &#8220;series&#8221; production is slated for 2027. My understanding is the AV hardware components will be integrated &#8220;in-line&#8221; during production. The company has <a href="https://www.ft.com/content/8ee5c17c-1eb2-41d6-9a7f-288ea9e66a45?syn-25a6b1a6=1">over 100 test vehicles</a> on the road across the US, Germany and Norway. VW aims to have 100k AVs on the road by 2033.  </p></li><li><p>Rivian. Rivian is an EV carmaker, founded in 2009, that is building its own autonomous software. The company is even building its own chips. Uber and Rivian stuck an agreement in Mar-26, where Uber would invest up to $1.25bn in Rivian, &#8220;subject to the achievement of certain autonomous milestones by specific dates.&#8221; Uber&#8217;s initial investment is $300m. Uber is expected to purchase 10,000 Rivian R2 robotaxis with the option to purchase up to 40,000 more beginning in 2030. The intention is to expand to 25 cities by 2031, starting with San Francisco and Miami in 2028. The R2 SUV is Rivian&#8217;s next-generation model that will debut with a ~$58k price tag (vs. $75-100k+ for its flagship R1), with more affordable versions planned, including a $45k model debuting late 2027. Rivian&#8217;s software is powerful enough that Volkswagen elected to strike a $5.8bn JV with the company to access Rivian&#8217;s EV architecture and software. VW is launching its first vehicle built on the Rivian platform &#8212; the ultra-cheap ID EVERY1 (a small, electric, four-door hatchback with a <a href="https://techcrunch.com/2025/03/05/volkswagens-cheapest-ev-ever-is-the-first-to-use-rivian-software/">$21.5k</a> price tag) &#8212; in 2027.</p></li><li><p>Motional. Motional is a Boston-based self-driving venture owned by Hyundai. Originally a JV between Hyundai and Aptiv, Aptiv pulled out of the JV in 2024. In response, Hyundai put an additional $1bn into Motional while the company was forced to lay off ~40% of its workforce. Motional and Uber launched a robotaxi service (using factory-built Hyundai IONIQ 5s) in Las Vegas in Mar-26. The initial service features a human safety operator, but it is expected to go driverless by the end of 2026. Hyundai vice-chair Jaehoon Chang recently told his staff: &#8220;our survival and future depend on the shift to a software-driven mobility company.&#8221; </p></li></ul><p>Wait, there&#8217;s more?</p><ul><li><p>Momenta. Momenta is another Chinese AV software provider that flies more under the radar than the &#8220;big 3&#8221; of Apollo Go, WeRide and Pony.ai. However, the company has drawn investment from Tencent, Temasek, SAIC motor, Toyota and Mercedes. The company raised funds in Sep-25 at around a <a href="https://www.cnbc.com/2025/09/26/chinese-driverless-firm-momenta-raising-funds-at-6-billion-valuation.html">$6bn</a> valuation, reportedly. Momenta and Uber struck a partnership in <a href="https://investor.uber.com/news-events/news/press-release-details/2025/Uber-and-Momenta-Announce-Strategic-Agreement-for-Robotaxi-Deployment/default.aspx">May-25</a> to jointly target markets outside the US and China, and will begin testing a robotaxi service in <a href="https://www.momenta.ai/en/article/316.html">Munich</a> in 2026. Momenta is a partner of both Mercedes and BMW for their Advanced Driver Assistance System (ADAS) which powers partial autonomy offerings like hands-free driving on highways.</p></li><li><p>Avride. Avride was formed in 2017 by parent company Nebius Group, formerly Yandex (it sold off the Russia-based Yandex in 2024). The company is based in Austin. Avride develops self-driving technology for passenger vehicles as well as for sidewalk delivery robots. Uber uses Avride both for sidewalk robots and for a robotaxi service in Dallas, launched in Dec-25. The Avride robotaxi operation is currently limited to a very small ODD within Dallas. Avride&#8217;s delivery robots operate across Philadelphia, Jersey City, Austin, Dallas, Ohio State University, Tokyo, Seoul and Dubai. </p></li></ul><ul><li><p>May Mobility. May Mobility is a start-up based in Ann Arbor. The company has formed partnerships with Uber and Lyft in the US as well as Grab in SE Asia. The company is partnered with Uber in Arlington/Dallas. May works with modified Toyota Sienna minivans, and operates in only a small portion of the city. The company is partnered with Lyft in Atlanta.</p></li></ul><p><em>What Happens to Human Drivers as AV Prices Fall?</em></p><p>As the price of an AV drops below the price of a human driver, what will happen to human drivers? Will Uber have to cut driver rates/pay? And if so, will human drivers stop driving?</p><p>Uber has signaled that as AVs come onto the platform, they will take on the position of &#8220;baseload&#8221; supply. As a result, however, there won&#8217;t be enough AVs on Uber&#8217;s platform to meet peak demand &#8212; far from it. Thus, human drivers will need to come onto the platform to handle these peaks. </p><p>Peak demand will still require &#8220;surge&#8221; pricing. The surge pricing of the future, however, will not look like surge pricing today &#8212; it will probably look more like the standard pricing of today (as prices fall). But because of this, Uber drivers should still be able to earn reasonable pay (though less than before).</p><p>Some drivers will leave the platform as a result. If a driver only drove during peak hours before, as they didn&#8217;t want to drive for any less than the surge pricing rate, they will churn. However, there will be drivers that stay. For them, they will take the non-surge rate, even if they can only get it during peak hours. </p><p>Dara was asked explicitly about this issue on a Oct-25 <em>Decoder</em> podcast.</p><blockquote><p>Interviewer: <em>&#8220;I took an Uber to work today. I figured I should use your app before I talk to you. I asked the driver and he said I want my rates to go up&#8230;I&#8217;m curious how you&#8217;re going to make the rates go up as you have big fleet operators who now have giant fixed costs who are happy to have 24-7 utilization and maybe take a lower rate for greater use while the drivers still just want high rates. How do you how do you square that circle? Because it feels like the driver rates are going to get pushed down as autonomy comes into the mix.&#8221;</em></p><p>DK: <em>&#8220;So I think that our job is going to be to manage the balance between demand and supply. I think autonomous is actually going to drive more demand. So that, you know, even though as a percentage of our overall inventory autonomous is going to be an ever increasing percentage, <strong>the overall demand &#8212; the number of drivers &#8212; that we need on our network over the next 5 to 10 years is going to increase because demand increases more, so to speak.</strong> </em></p><p><em><strong>20 years from now you might be right and from that standpoint we just have to manage our inventory which is there&#8217;s a turnover of drivers all the time and we want to make sure that we give drivers the right expectations of earnings etc.</strong> And in a city where demand isn&#8217;t growing, maybe because autonomous supply is coming in, we just have to slow down recruiting of drivers and not make them [false] promises as it relates to earnings. So I think communication, being straight with people &#8212; that&#8217;s ultimate answer. But I don&#8217;t take it for granted. This is going to be a transition that we have to manage very, very carefully and make sure that our driver base is taken care of.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>I think Dara is potentially right that demand will actually go up for some period for human drivers as overall demand for rideshare increases. However, as AV prices really begin to fall (as well as take up a larger percentage of rides), Uber will need to gradually reduce pay and hours for their drivers.</p><p>Here is Uber&#8217;s Chief Product Officer Sachin Kansal from a Nov-25 WSJ podcast, highlighting Uber&#8217;s unique ability to activate drivers during times of peak demand:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;For anyone to have enough cars on a Friday evening at 6 PM, when you both have this combination of commute as well as party traffic that&#8217;s starting to happen. You just can&#8217;t have enough cars, or if you try to deploy enough cars to be able to meet that demand, you&#8217;re gonna have a lot of idle time on your hands because these are assets that you&#8217;re deploying in the city. </em></p><p><em>Now we have the benefit of having a flexible supply pool in our core business, and we know when to deploy that supply pool, depending on the peaks and troughs of the demand in that particular city&#8230;So the flexible supply pool is our driver base. <strong>And we have now more than a decade of experience on how we work with our drivers to be able to bring them on the platform at the right time. If you look at the driver app, there is so much guidance that we provide. We communicate with them, the app tells them when it is busy, when they should come online, when there are incentives, what the earnings [will be]. So that&#8217;s a very well honed system for us on the driver&#8217;s side.</strong>&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>What happens when prices are so low for AVs (say &lt;$1 per mile vs. a human driver at $2+) that nobody would want to be matched with a human, even during peak hours? </p><p>In this case, Uber could be forced into a situation where it subsidizes human driver fares/pay in order to keep them on the platform. This would allow Uber to keep pricing lower for riders, but it would negatively impact Uber&#8217;s take rate and margins.</p><p><em>What Would a Nationwide Robotaxi Fleet Cost?</em></p><p>Based on my back-of the-envelope math, the cost of a nationwide fleet actually seems somewhat achievable. This is probably not a great thing for Uber, as it shows that Google/Amazon/Tesla are capable of building fleets that could have sizable impacts on the market.</p><p>If Waymo&#8217;s 3,000 vehicle fleet today is doing 500k rides per week, that&#8217;s 26mm rides per year or 8,667 rides per vehicle per year. If Uber is doing 2.2bn rides a year in its US mobility business, that&#8217;s in theory achievable with a fleet of ~250k cars (using the same 8,667 number). However, we know that a lot of these rides are happening simultaneously during peak hours. Thus, the actually fleet size will need to be something like ~3x larger, or ~750k vehicles.</p><p>If ultimately the price of an AV settles at ~$50k, then the cost of an entire US Uber-sized robotaxi fleet would be ~$38bn, in theory (or ~$7.5bn annually, assuming a 5-year vehicle life). However, if robotaxis were to grow to say 5% of all miles traveled in the US, that would mean a ~10x&#8217;ing of today&#8217;s fleet. Thus, instead of $7.5bn, you&#8217;d be looking at something more like $75bn annually, just for the US. If robotaxis grew to 15% of all miles traveled, you&#8217;d be looking at ~$225bn annually.</p><p>This figure doesn&#8217;t take into account the build-out of depots and charging infrastructure that would be needed to support such a fleet. It also doesn&#8217;t take into account operating costs, which might be ~3x the fleet&#8217;s depreciation cost. But let&#8217;s assume these costs are absorbed by the fleet operators and/or offset by revenues. </p><p>If we assume 75% of the cost of these vehicles can be offloaded to financing providers (i.e. we assume Waymo, Uber, etc. are only putting 25% down), then we are actually back down to manageable figures. Instead of $75bn annually, for instance, the capital required would be more like ~$20bn annually (to support a fleet that could handle ~5% of all miles traveled). Google or Amazon alone (with operating free cash flows in the ~$150-200bn range) could manage this type of spend.</p><div><hr></div><h2>Delivery</h2><h4>Key Priorities</h4><p><em>Supply, Supply, Supply</em></p><p>The first rule of building a vibrant marketplace is building supply. Supply, according to Uber management, &#8220;broadens the appeal of the marketplace, attracts new customers, and drives engagement with existing customers.&#8221;</p><p>Uber Eats is still relatively early across its top markets in terms of bringing merchants onto the platform. The chart below from Uber&#8217;s 2024 investor day shows the percentage of total potential restaurant and grocery locations that were actually on the Uber Eats platform. As we can see, there is still a lot of room for Uber to grow its merchant base.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!e-92!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffefab437-22ea-49f7-b25f-0557c5d95442_822x463.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!e-92!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffefab437-22ea-49f7-b25f-0557c5d95442_822x463.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!e-92!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, 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y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>From the 2024 investor day:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;Another key opportunity for us is bringing more merchants to the marketplace. <strong>We think of new merchants like a streaming platform thinks about new content. </strong>It fundamentally broadens the appeal of our marketplace, attracting new consumers while driving more engagement with existing ones. We&#8217;re making great progress, but <strong>we&#8217;re still quite early across our top markets with roughly 20% of available restaurants and grocery stores on our platform</strong>. We&#8217;re building tech to drive down on-boarding time, improve self-sign-up and self-service and tools to make our commercial teams more effective and more productive.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>When I compare the restaurants on Uber Eats in my area (SF Bay Area) to those on DoorDash, it&#8217;s hard to tell much of a difference. All the restaurants I regularly order from (from the national chains to the local single-location restaurants) are on both.</p><p><em>Penetrating the Suburbs</em></p><p>The suburbs are a big focus for Uber in delivery, as they are in mobility.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-53" href="#footnote-53" target="_self">53</a> In delivery, like in mobility, Uber originally focused its efforts in city centers. This made sense to most people at the time. The city centers are the most dense in terms of supply and demand. So it should follow that these areas would be the most profitable (high volume, high amount of batching). It is also where Uber was strongest in mobility.</p><p>Here is Dara on a Nov-25 <em>HD in HD</em> podcast:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;I&#8217;d say one mistake was that we focused too much on the big cities. Uber was in the big cities. Uber was a big city business. That&#8217;s where mobility was. Started in Paris and then New York and Sao Paulo. Those are our biggest cities, London. And it turns out there&#8217;s a huge market outside of the large cities, especially with delivery. </em></p><p><em>Suburbs, [more] sparse areas &#8212; it&#8217;s actually one of our top growth areas now. You know, seven, eight years in, <strong>we&#8217;re still growing at like one and a half to three times the speed that we&#8217;re growing in the big cities.</strong> And we could have focused on that earlier&#8230;<strong>We overfitted to big cities and we completely ignored the suburbs because we just made assumptions about the suburbs that turned out to be wrong.</strong>&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>It turned out that the suburbs are actually a great (superior?) market for delivery: (1) it&#8217;s a larger overall market than the city centers (the suburbs are ~60% of the delivery market, according to Uber estimates), (2) order sizes are larger (read: families) which are more profitable orders to serve, all things equal (higher delivery fee), (3) it&#8217;s much easier to drive around in the suburbs, find parking, etc. (helps with ETAs, driver retention), and (4) the most obvious downsides of serving the suburbs (less batching, more downtime) turns out are somewhat mitigated by the fact that restaurants still tend to be clustered together in &#8220;downtown&#8221; areas (which helps with batching, positioning drivers).</p><p>Key to penetrating the suburbs is (1) supply, (2) low ETAs, and (3) attractive pricing &#8212; three dimensions where Uber is making progress. Here is CFO Balaji Krishnamurthy at a Mar-26 Morgan Stanley conference describing Uber&#8217;s strategy in the suburbs. He alludes to the fact that Uber has yet to really go &#8220;all-in&#8221; on the suburbs.</p><blockquote><p>Analyst: <em>&#8220;If we think about sort of pairing the sparse market mobility strategy with the cross-pollination strategy into Eats, how far away are you being able to say, &#8216;Look, we&#8217;re making progress in the sparse markets on rides. Now we&#8217;re going to really sort of press more into the delivery and the food and everything else?&#8217; Is that a &#8216;27 dynamic? Is it &#8216;26? When can that investment happen?&#8221;</em></p><p>Balaji Krishnamurthy: <em>&#8220;Yes. So it&#8217;s definitely something we think about. But before we start pressing on those kind of investments, we have to ensure that the quality of our product is excellent on both sides, right? And for delivery, the way to measure that is do we have the right kind of selection in every market. So if you&#8217;re in a sparse market, we cannot just show you McDonald&#8217;s, Subway, Starbucks and hope where consumers to be sticking to us because we do need to bring you the local champions in that market, and we have to get you the best selection from that town or city. So there&#8217;s still selection work that we&#8217;re doing, right?</em></p><p><em>Then, you have to ensure that the way your courier motion is in that market is also different, right? In dense markets, you can get to couriers on a very hands-off basis. They can come in and out of the system whenever they like because there&#8217;s enough density, whereas in sparser markets, you need to allow scheduling, you need to be able to tell couriers when to log on and when they can expect to find business, right? So there&#8217;s work that&#8217;s happening on that side of the marketplace as well. Suffice to say, it&#8217;s not lost on us.</em></p><p><em><strong>It&#8217;s definitely a part of our plan, but we need to ensure that the product quality on both sides is good before we start making that investment. Otherwise, we&#8217;re not getting the returns we expect there</strong>.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>While Uber has been late to the suburbs, it&#8217;s now a clear focus for the company. And Uber seems to be having good success. Per Dara above, Uber is growing 1.5-3x faster in the suburbs than in the cities.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-54" href="#footnote-54" target="_self">54</a></p><p><em>Grocery, Retail, Direct</em></p><p>Uber is extending delivery beyond restaurants. The next categories up are grocery, retail and &#8220;direct&#8221; (or offering &#8220;white label&#8221; delivery for merchants who take orders through proprietary channels). Uber now even allows users to <a href="https://www.uber.com/us/en/newsroom/uber-eats-launches-returns/">return retail items </a>through Uber Eats (this is, to date, limited to items that were also purchased through Uber Eats).</p><p>The grocery and retail businesses are doing $12-13bn in gross bookings today (ex DH). In terms of grocery/retail &#8220;supply&#8221; on the Uber app, Uber management would tell you its around the level where food delivery was in 2019-2020. At that point in time, the food delivery business was at a very similar scale to where grocery/retail is today.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-55" href="#footnote-55" target="_self">55</a></p><p>Grocery is particularly attractive in that (1) it&#8217;s a huge market (2x+ bigger than restaurants), (2) it&#8217;s highly repetitive in nature, (3) the basket sizes are relatively large (so delivery is more profitable, all things equal), (4) you can batch more easily because food temperature isn&#8217;t as important and volume per store is higher and (5) it&#8217;s a relatively straightforward cross-sell opportunity to tack on to food orders (ala DoorDash&#8217;s &#8220;DoubleDash&#8221;). </p><p>Grocery is also, however, a total knife fight. It&#8217;s low margin to begin with. And Uber is going up against very large, very formidable, and very verticalized players in Walmart, Costco and Amazon, who also offer same-day delivery. Amazon, as mentioned earlier, seems to be blowing the doors off their grocery business. There is also fierce competition from DoorDash and Instacart in the US (globally Uber considers itself in &#8220;pole position&#8221; when it comes to groceries<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-56" href="#footnote-56" target="_self">56</a>).</p><p>Uber has some tailwinds behind its grocery business: (1) Uber is in the &#8220;top-up&#8221; category, a category that is growing quickly (it&#8217;s increasingly easy/cheap to buy groceries more incrementally vs. large periodic orders) and (2) it benefits from a very logical cross-sell motion to its huge base of Uber Eats users.</p><p>Here is Dara from a Sep-25 Goldman conference discussing Uber&#8217;s &#8220;top-up&#8221; positioning:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;So there&#8217;s a very, very long road map as it relates to grocery and delivery. Today, the grocery habits that we see are more of a top-up habit, which is, call it, $30, $40, $50 basket sizes versus the $100-plus weekly shop. So we&#8217;re much more in the top-up category. But what we&#8217;re seeing is 2 things. <strong>One is top-ups as a percentage of the overall grocery category are going up because it&#8217;s just becoming easier.</strong></em></p><p><em>It used to be &#8212; I used to be an appointment shopper, my wife and I would go to the grocery store once a week, once every 2 weeks and load up, where you can just kind of order &#8212; just like with Amazon, it&#8217;s like I&#8217;ll order a single thing and press delivery there. <strong>With Eats, if you&#8217;re a member, get 2 or 3 things. It&#8217;s no big deal. So we&#8217;re seeing kind of top-ups grow as a percentage of the overall category.</strong> And we think eventually, as you get more consumers embedded into our ecosystem, we can become that weekly shop, and we can increase the basket size substantially.</em></p><p><em>But right now, the focus is just drive selection, just drive frequency within that top-up area and then eventually, you can become kind of the prime area for shopping.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>Still only ~18%<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-57" href="#footnote-57" target="_self">57</a> of Uber Eats users have tried Grocery and Retail, so there is significant room to grow these categories. While grocery is not currently a profitable business for Uber, as orders get larger, and as more orders are batched, profitability should improve. Further, grocery is also the category most easily monetized through advertising (even more so than food). Uber is only in the initial stages of its ad monetization journey in grocery.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-58" href="#footnote-58" target="_self">58</a></p><p><em>Drive Affordability</em></p><p>Driving affordability is a big priority for Uber Eats. </p><p>The shear amount of merchant-funded offers I see in Uber Eats is noticeable. Uber seems very intent on showing a consistency large number of offers. From a Mar-25 Morgan Stanley conference:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;When you look at Uber Eats, for example, we are &#8212; one of our biggest programs is what we call merchant-funded offers. So actually, merchants providing buy one, get one free, if you spend $30 on a basket, gets a $10 item for free, et cetera. These are promotions that these merchants run. Those promotions give merchants more access to our audience, and <strong>merchant-funded offers are now running at over $1 billion of, call it, savings for our eaters per year as well</strong>.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>$1bn of savings on ~$75bn of GB (if we take Uber Eats&#8217; GB from the time of the quote) may not seem like a ton (~1%). But if we assume the average savings on an offer is 10%, that would imply ~13% of orders came with a merchant-funded offer attached.</p><p>The Uber One membership also adds considerably to affordability ($0 delivery fee, up to 10% off orders over a minimum subtotal). Within Uber Eats, Uber One members represent 60%+ of bookings (significantly greater than their percentage of overall bookings).<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-59" href="#footnote-59" target="_self">59</a></p><p>As density further improves, greater batching should also drive affordability. Around 50% of orders are batched today, per Dara&#8217;s Jun-26 <em>Invest Like the Best</em> interview.</p><p>Lastly, and perhaps most importantly, AVs will very likely ratchet up affordability in the not too distant future (no tips, lower cost per delivery over time).</p><p><em>Grow the Ads Business</em></p><p>One particularly profitable line of business for Uber, housed almost entirely within Uber Eats, is its advertising business. Uber generated &#8220;well over&#8221; $2bn in ARR from advertising in Dec-25, up over 50% YoY. Delivery advertising as a percentage of delivery GB crossed 2% in 2025 and seems poised to go significantly higher.</p><p>See Investment Merits for more discussion.</p><h4>TAM</h4><p>According to DoorDash, as of 2022, total restaurant spend across the markets it serves (which overlap strongly with Uber Eats&#8217; markets) is over $1 trillion (and grocery &amp; convenience spend is over $2.5 trillion).<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-60" href="#footnote-60" target="_self">60</a> </p><p>Uber hasn&#8217;t provided much in the way of an official delivery TAM over the past few years. Management did have this to say on Q3&#8217;25 earnings:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;And listen, food is a huge category. It&#8217;s no surprise. This is a $2 trillion TAM in food and kind of a $10 trillion TAM in grocery.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>Since this statement, Uber has expanded into an additional 20+ new markets through its acquisition of Delivery Hero. Thus, its TAM estimate will have gone up materially.</p><p>If we combine the 2025 bookings for Uber Eats, Delivery Hero (the portion Uber is acquiring) and DoorDash we get to $235bn of total bookings. Assuming 85% of this is food delivery, this gets us to ~$200bn of combined food delivery bookings. Assuming a TAM of $1.5tn, $200bn of bookings would equate to ~13% of the market. If we assume a TAM of $2.0tn it would equate to ~10% of the market, and if we assume a TAM of $2.5tn, it would equate to ~8% of the market.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!U5Rz!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Feeb7c24a-effe-45e6-bae0-898c8b8205e2_1373x929.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!U5Rz!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Feeb7c24a-effe-45e6-bae0-898c8b8205e2_1373x929.png 424w, 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Feeb7c24a-effe-45e6-bae0-898c8b8205e2_1373x929.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!U5Rz!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Feeb7c24a-effe-45e6-bae0-898c8b8205e2_1373x929.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>In terms of food delivery penetration of overall restaurant spend, Uber has estimated that it&#8217;s in the mid-teens (vs. the mid-20s for overall ecommerce).<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-61" href="#footnote-61" target="_self">61</a></p><h4>Competitive Landscape</h4><p>Uber Eats&#8217; competitive set varies by geo. </p><p>In the US, by far Uber&#8217;s toughest competitor is DoorDash, which owns ~60% of the market, more than double that of Uber Eats. Internationally, Uber is a more dominant platform, especially post DH. Internationally, Uber competes mostly with DoorDash (which owns Wolt and Deliveroo) or regional players, many of whom are owned by Prosus (Just Eat, Lieferando, iFood, Skip, Thuisbezorgd, etc.).</p><p>Below is a highly unofficial table of market share by country for food delivery.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!RWqm!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd279d503-86b4-4c94-bc06-9d358be3e163_2869x2591.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!RWqm!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd279d503-86b4-4c94-bc06-9d358be3e163_2869x2591.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!RWqm!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd279d503-86b4-4c94-bc06-9d358be3e163_2869x2591.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!RWqm!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd279d503-86b4-4c94-bc06-9d358be3e163_2869x2591.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!RWqm!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd279d503-86b4-4c94-bc06-9d358be3e163_2869x2591.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!RWqm!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd279d503-86b4-4c94-bc06-9d358be3e163_2869x2591.png" width="1456" height="1315" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/d279d503-86b4-4c94-bc06-9d358be3e163_2869x2591.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1315,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:678518,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/189172282?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd279d503-86b4-4c94-bc06-9d358be3e163_2869x2591.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!RWqm!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd279d503-86b4-4c94-bc06-9d358be3e163_2869x2591.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!RWqm!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd279d503-86b4-4c94-bc06-9d358be3e163_2869x2591.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!RWqm!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd279d503-86b4-4c94-bc06-9d358be3e163_2869x2591.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!RWqm!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd279d503-86b4-4c94-bc06-9d358be3e163_2869x2591.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>As a side note, the TAM estimates by country (in the table above) were provided by Gemini. It estimates the restaurant TAM across Uber&#8217;s markets to be ~$2.8tn &#8212; well above DoorDash&#8217;s TAM estimate (of $1bn) and Uber&#8217;s TAM estimate (of $2bn). Gemini&#8217;s estimated restaurant + grocery/convenience TAM across Uber&#8217;s markets is ~$8.5bn. The US represents roughly half this TAM according to Gemini.</p><p>We can see from above that while DoorDash has strong share in the US, Uber has similarly strong share in many international markets. </p><p>It seems Uber will be tough to dislodge in international markets. Uber offers both mobility and delivery, an advantage that none of Uber&#8217;s competitors benefit from. And Uber&#8217;s higher market share should provide for lower ETAs and prices. It&#8217;s a formidable combination and it doesn&#8217;t seem to allow for any type of wedge with which a competitor could take share.</p><p>Here is CFO Balaji Krishnamurthy detailing the mobility + delivery advantage on Uber&#8217;s Q4&#8217;25 earnings call:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;Our international footprint on Eats is not quite what it is with our mobility business. <strong>Every time we launch Eats along with mobility,</strong> <strong>we just have a structural advantage over the other players. And we&#8217;re able to grow category position</strong>. We were the #3 in the U.K. We&#8217;re #1, all organic. We launched from scratch in Germany and now are neck and neck with a top player in Germany in a lot of individual cities. Japan was another organic launch, and we&#8217;re by far the #1 player in Japan.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>In this Nov-25 <em>HD in HD</em> podcast, Dara interestingly expresses his regret in exiting the India delivery market. He knows, given Uber&#8217;s strength in mobility in India, that Uber would&#8217;ve ultimately had wedge to take share in what is a huge and growing delivery market.</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;<strong>We made some moves that I regret. Like we got out of food in India. It&#8217;s a huge market. It&#8217;s a challenging market. But I would have liked to be multi-platform the way we are in mobility and delivery in the US and the UK. It gives us &#8212; the platform &#8212; gives us huge advantages in terms of Uber just being a part of your everyday life.</strong> And while those were good financial decisions at the time, boy, I&#8217;d love to be in food in some of the countries that we pulled out of.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>Here is management from a Mar-26 Morgan Stanley conference on their success in taking share internationally:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;So U.S., our category position is relatively stable. It&#8217;s a great category where both Uber Eats and DoorDash are benefiting from the expansion of the category. <strong>But outside the U.S., we have continued to gain share even though our position is 2 to 3x as large as the next player in the market.</strong></em></p><p><em><strong>And I&#8217;m talking about large markets like Canada, France, Australia, Japan, Taiwan, Turkey, right, all of which we are now at a strong #1 position and the U.K. as well, we are in a good #1 position now.</strong> So from a category position standpoint, there&#8217;s a lot of momentum that we&#8217;re getting there.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p><em>DoorDash</em></p><p>DoorDash is a strong competitor in the US and globally. </p><p>DoorDash generated ~$100bn in GOV in 2025 (Uber Eats generated ~$132bn post DH). DoorDash generated ~$14bn of revenue and ~$2.8bn of adj EBITDA (Uber Eats generated ~$29bn of revenue and $5.8bn of adj EBITDA post DH, however Uber Eats&#8217; EBITDA figure excludes its share of Uber&#8217;s &#8220;corporate G&amp;A&#8221; and &#8220;platform R&amp;D&#8221;). </p><p>DoorDash ended 2025 with 35m DashPass members, up 59% YoY. Uber ended 2025 with 46m Uber One members (ex DH), up ~53% YoY. DoorDash, it should be noted, is closely aligned with JPMorgan Chase. Premium Chase cardholders (Sapphire Reserve &amp; Preferred), of which there are ~5-7mm, receive complementary DashPass subscriptions. This partnership has been in place since 2020, and is currently locked in through Dec-27. Uber has its own partnership with Amex. Premium Amex cardholders (Platinum &amp; Gold), of which there are ~6-7mm, receive free Uber Cash varying from $120 to $320 annually.</p><p>As mentioned above, DoorDash focused its efforts in the suburbs early on, while Uber focused on the urban core. This proved to be a smart decision on DoorDash&#8217;s part and explains much of the move in DoorDash&#8217;s US market share from ~20% to ~60% over the last ~8 years (see chart below).</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!859C!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4a64bbf3-ca77-47b8-997a-e002dd8ecf4a_444x453.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!859C!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4a64bbf3-ca77-47b8-997a-e002dd8ecf4a_444x453.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!859C!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4a64bbf3-ca77-47b8-997a-e002dd8ecf4a_444x453.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!859C!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4a64bbf3-ca77-47b8-997a-e002dd8ecf4a_444x453.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!859C!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4a64bbf3-ca77-47b8-997a-e002dd8ecf4a_444x453.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!859C!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4a64bbf3-ca77-47b8-997a-e002dd8ecf4a_444x453.png" width="444" height="453" 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4a64bbf3-ca77-47b8-997a-e002dd8ecf4a_444x453.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!859C!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4a64bbf3-ca77-47b8-997a-e002dd8ecf4a_444x453.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!859C!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4a64bbf3-ca77-47b8-997a-e002dd8ecf4a_444x453.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!859C!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4a64bbf3-ca77-47b8-997a-e002dd8ecf4a_444x453.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Below Dara comments on competition with DoorDash in a <em><a href="https://stratechery.com/2025/an-interview-with-uber-ceo-dara-khosrowshahi-about-aggregation-and-autonomy/#integration-aggregation">Stratechery</a></em> interview from Feb-25. Uber is betting that over time, its combination of delivery + mobility (and the superiority of the Uber One membership), combined with a greater focus on the suburbs (increased selection, better reliability), will give Uber an opportunity to take back share:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;But coming back to the competition against DoorDash, I do think that one thing that they got right was really focusing on the suburbs. If you look in the US, in terms of the suburbs, it&#8217;s actually 60 plus percent of the marketplace. Uber has always been a really urban market. We grew up in cities. That&#8217;s where we already had the liquidity of the marketplace, and Uber Eats was kind of &#8212; they drive people, drive stuff as well. It was an offshoot, so I think DoorDash got the suburban family first, we got the urban 20-something year old first. We&#8217;re now kind of coming into each other&#8217;s markets.</em></p><p><em>DoorDash&#8217;s market, the suburbs turned out to be larger than the urban markets, but for us, suburbs and less dense markets, actually, not only are there a huge opportunity for Uber Eats, not just in the US, but all over the world. We&#8217;re going into secondary cities, tertiary cities, but it&#8217;s actually a really big opportunity with Uber. As we started expanding Eats into the suburbs, we&#8217;re seeing that there&#8217;s also Uber demand there. So actually, moving into these less dense cohorts and neighborhoods is a huge opportunity for Uber Eats, but also Uber as well, which is I think we&#8217;ve got another three to five years of penetration ahead of us.</em></p><p><em>You looked in the last quarter, Eats actually accelerated its gross bookings level, so it&#8217;s going to be a dog fight with DoorDash, but they&#8217;re a strong competitor. We&#8217;re a really strong competitor, and <strong>I&#8217;m very, very confident that the network effect that we have, Rides, Eats, along with the Uber One Membership program that&#8217;s now 30 million strong, ultimately is going to come out on top of the full competitive field in food and grocery&#8230;</strong></em></p><p><em>I think it&#8217;s very difficult for companies to do more than one thing or build more than one brand. Not only are we multi-service, but we also expanded internationally much faster than, let&#8217;s say, the DoorDash&#8217;s of the world and many other competitors of the world, and on a short-term basis, it&#8217;s much harder. You&#8217;ve got to build more services, you have to generalize for the international markets. It takes longer to build things, but over the long term, we think it&#8217;s a much stronger strategic position to be in.</em></p><p><em><strong>Again, DoorDash, they do only one thing, we think our superpower is in the platform. Their superpower, you could say, is in their focus. Every piece of evidence that we&#8217;re seeing is that the platform is winning against the whole ecosystem.</strong> Obviously, the markets that we&#8217;re chasing are much, much broader than just the DoorDash&#8217;s out there.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>Here is Dara again making the case that Uber has a path to take share on a Jun-23 <em>Acquired</em> podcast. He is pretty explicit that Uber will be willing to be loss-making in its efforts to gain share in the US:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;DoorDash is a tough competitor. DoorDash is larger than we are in the U.S. <strong>We are focused on keeping share in the U.S, gaining a bunch of share outside the U.S., and then over a period of time using the structural advantage of, one, profit pools outside of the US and then use the structural advantage that we talked about in terms of customer acquisition, over a period of time to hopefully gain category position against DoorDash.</strong> But they&#8217;re a tough competitor. We respect them. We don&#8217;t like them, but we respect them.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>Internationally, DoorDash has made aggressive moves to expand inorganically. In Nov-21, Uber acquired Wolt for a massive ~3.2x multiple of GMV. And in May-25, DoorDash acquired Deliveroo for a much smaller ~0.3x multiple of GMV. Wolt was founded in Finland in 2014. The company has leading market share in the Nordics, and has expanded into Eastern Europe over time. In it&#8217;s two largest markets, however (Germany and Poland &#8212; which Wolt entered in 2020 and 2018, respectfully), Wolt remains stuck in a distant trailing position. It is in the #3 position in Germany behind Lieferando and Uber (Uber entered after Wolt in 2021), and in the #3/4 position in Poland behind Pyszne.pl and Glovo (and perhaps tied with Uber).</p><p>DoorDash seems to lack a clear wedge through which to expand internationally other than trying to slowly grind it out through incentives and perhaps an incrementally better product (greater selection, higher reliability, product innovations like &#8220;DoubleDash&#8221;). </p><p>I think its fair to say that Uber has fared much better internationally. Here is management from Q1&#8217;25 earnings:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;To your question in terms of competition, especially in Europe, we&#8217;re really, really happy about our results in Europe. We recently, we believe, got to the #1 category position in the U.K. with Eats, entirely organically. <strong>We didn&#8217;t have to buy our way into glory, so to speak.</strong> France remains a top market for us. And we think that Germany, for example, is a market that holds a significant amount of promise. I think we launched in Germany 3 to 4 years ago, and our category position continues to increase in Germany as we invest in that market, both on the mobility and delivery side.</em></p><p><em>So we&#8217;re seeing very encouraging trends in Europe. <strong>And frankly, it&#8217;s not a surprise to see some of our competitors look to expand there inorganically. We like organic expansion more.</strong> We&#8217;ve been investing for years in these marketplaces, and I think it shows in our results.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>Shots fired!</p><p>DoorDash has also recently lost out to Uber on a couple of key partnerships. </p><p>After years of rumors that DoorDash would launch its own POS software (putting it into competition with Toast), in Nov-25 Toast (the leading POS software provider in the US with $100bn+ of GPV, or ~15-18% market share) announced that it would make Uber Eats the default delivery partner for &#8220;native&#8221; restaurant orders (or orders coming directly to a restaurant&#8217;s website), replacing DoorDash. It also announced that restaurant owners could launch Uber Eats promotions, update menus and changes photos right from the Toast dashboard. </p><p>In Mar-25, OpenTable, the leading aggregator of restaurant reservations with ~50% market share in the US, and Uber announced a partnership where Uber would integrate OpenTable&#8217;s reservation inventory into Uber&#8217;s new &#8220;Dine Out&#8221; tab. OpenTable will also be powering reservations for Uber in Canada, Mexico, the UK, Ireland and Australia. The integration highlights discounts that restaurants are offering and provides Uber One members with exclusive access to certain reservations. Additionally, within the OpenTable app, after making a reservation, users will be prompted to pre-book an Uber &#8220;reserve&#8221; ride (and in doing so will receive a discounted fare).</p><p><em>Instacart</em></p><p>Instacart is a ~$10bn mkt cap grocery delivery marketplace based almost entirely in the US.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!2wXd!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9f2e169d-137e-4c18-ae7f-90cb5de81b44_876x496.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!2wXd!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9f2e169d-137e-4c18-ae7f-90cb5de81b44_876x496.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!2wXd!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9f2e169d-137e-4c18-ae7f-90cb5de81b44_876x496.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!2wXd!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9f2e169d-137e-4c18-ae7f-90cb5de81b44_876x496.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!2wXd!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9f2e169d-137e-4c18-ae7f-90cb5de81b44_876x496.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!2wXd!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9f2e169d-137e-4c18-ae7f-90cb5de81b44_876x496.png" width="876" height="496" 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9f2e169d-137e-4c18-ae7f-90cb5de81b44_876x496.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!2wXd!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9f2e169d-137e-4c18-ae7f-90cb5de81b44_876x496.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!2wXd!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9f2e169d-137e-4c18-ae7f-90cb5de81b44_876x496.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!2wXd!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9f2e169d-137e-4c18-ae7f-90cb5de81b44_876x496.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" 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y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Instacart generated $37bn in GOV in 2025, which was up 11% YoY. It generated revenue of $3.7bn and EBITDA of $1.1bn. The company served 26mm+ customers in 2025, and ~10mm in just the month of Dec-25. It is partnered with 2,200+ retailers across ~100k total locations. It has ~600k &#8220;shoppers&#8221; on the platform fulfilling orders. In Q4&#8217;25, GTV was up 14% YoY, representing Instacart&#8217;s strongest quarterly growth in 3 years.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!f2nk!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe4d7f72d-71cd-4826-b852-e71c3bbb7ada_844x470.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!f2nk!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe4d7f72d-71cd-4826-b852-e71c3bbb7ada_844x470.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!f2nk!, 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe4d7f72d-71cd-4826-b852-e71c3bbb7ada_844x470.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!f2nk!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe4d7f72d-71cd-4826-b852-e71c3bbb7ada_844x470.png" width="844" height="470" 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe4d7f72d-71cd-4826-b852-e71c3bbb7ada_844x470.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!f2nk!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe4d7f72d-71cd-4826-b852-e71c3bbb7ada_844x470.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" 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y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Instacart&#8217;s key grocery partners include Costco, Kroger, Aldi, Publix, Albertsons (including Safeway and Vons), Publix, and Meijer.</p><p>Instacart generates much bigger grocery &#8220;baskets&#8221; than the likes of Uber Eats and DoorDash. Since 2020, Instacart&#8217;s average order has &#8220;consistently been $110 or more.&#8221; Instacart also has a robust advertising business, which generated ~$1.1bn of revenue in 2025, or ~2.9% of GTV. If you apply a ~60-70% margin to that, advertising dollars would have represented well north of half of the company&#8217;s overall EBITDA in 2025.</p><p>The company has ~$1.4bn of cash and no debt. It bought back $1.4bn in shares in 2025, including $1.1bn in Q4&#8217;25 alone (10% of its market cap!). </p><p>Instacart seems like a prime M&amp;A target for Uber and Uber is perhaps the most logical buyer for Instacart.</p><p>Adding significant heft to Uber&#8217;s grocery business through an Instacart acquisition would be a win for Uber. Uber trails DoorDash in food delivery by a wide margin in the US, and Instacart would help close the gap meaningfully. A deal would seem  highly synergistic, to boot: (1) tech platform, ad platform, SG&amp;A cost synergies, (2) a meaningful uplift in batching by combining volumes, (3) synergies in combining their pools of couriers (more liquid supply, better pay for couriers given more volume/less downtime), and (4) better ad monetization of Uber&#8217;s grocery business. DoorDash has actually gotten more &#8220;verticalized&#8221; in its grocery offering with DashMart, putting it somewhat into competition with it&#8217;s grocery merchants. Uber has shied away from going &#8220;vertical,&#8221; so Instacart would be a better fit for Uber in that respect. Additionally, Uber and Instacart actually already have a close partnership: Uber powers the restaurant delivery feature in the Instacart app. Uber would also likely have an easier time (vs. DoorDash) of overcoming antitrust concerns.</p><p>Steve Jang, an early Uber investor, basically <a href="https://youtu.be/CBthsIaiNh8?t=454">makes the case</a> for an Uber/Instacart acquisition in a Nov-24 interview with Yahoo! Finance:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;Another area of acquisition &#8212; you know, the FTC aside and those approvals necessary for it. I really feel that the grocery category is adjacent, it&#8217;s relevant, it plugs right into the network. I think something in that area would be very, very exciting and makes a lot of sense as a plug-and-play acquisition.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><h4>Delivery Hero Acquisition</h4><p>Delivery Hero is a conglomerate of food delivery brands that operates across ~70 countries. In 2025, the company generated &#8364;49bn of GMV (up 9% YoY), ~&#8364;15bn of revenue and ~&#8364;900m of EBITDA. ~90% of its GMV comes from markets where it holds the #1 position, according to Delivery Hero management.</p><p>Its key brands include: Glovo (Europe), talabat (MENA ex Saudia Arabia), Hungerstation (Saudi Arabia), PedidosYa (LatAm ex Brazil and Mexico), foodpanda (SE Asia), and Baemin (South Korea).</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!H5pZ!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fecba1514-970b-47db-bffc-2cc7d7b617b4_441x386.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!H5pZ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fecba1514-970b-47db-bffc-2cc7d7b617b4_441x386.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!H5pZ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fecba1514-970b-47db-bffc-2cc7d7b617b4_441x386.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!H5pZ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fecba1514-970b-47db-bffc-2cc7d7b617b4_441x386.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!H5pZ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fecba1514-970b-47db-bffc-2cc7d7b617b4_441x386.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!H5pZ!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fecba1514-970b-47db-bffc-2cc7d7b617b4_441x386.png" width="441" height="386" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/ecba1514-970b-47db-bffc-2cc7d7b617b4_441x386.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:386,&quot;width&quot;:441,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:41861,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/189172282?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fecba1514-970b-47db-bffc-2cc7d7b617b4_441x386.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!H5pZ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fecba1514-970b-47db-bffc-2cc7d7b617b4_441x386.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!H5pZ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fecba1514-970b-47db-bffc-2cc7d7b617b4_441x386.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!H5pZ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fecba1514-970b-47db-bffc-2cc7d7b617b4_441x386.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!H5pZ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fecba1514-970b-47db-bffc-2cc7d7b617b4_441x386.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Delivery Hero was founded in Berlin in 2011 and was originally a platform where restaurants with their own delivery drivers could take orders (i.e. simple lead gen). It expanded globally through acquisitions that included PedidosYa in 2014, talabat, Hungerstation and foodpanda in 2016, Baemin in 2019 and Glovo in 2022. In 2018, Delivery Hero actually sold off its entire German business (Lieferheld, Pizza.de and foodora&#8217;s Germany unit), citing intense competition.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!yEWh!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F718c0511-f7e3-410f-9a2c-55c3a8b1f052_912x518.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!yEWh!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F718c0511-f7e3-410f-9a2c-55c3a8b1f052_912x518.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!yEWh!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F718c0511-f7e3-410f-9a2c-55c3a8b1f052_912x518.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!yEWh!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F718c0511-f7e3-410f-9a2c-55c3a8b1f052_912x518.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!yEWh!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F718c0511-f7e3-410f-9a2c-55c3a8b1f052_912x518.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!yEWh!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F718c0511-f7e3-410f-9a2c-55c3a8b1f052_912x518.png" width="912" height="518" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/718c0511-f7e3-410f-9a2c-55c3a8b1f052_912x518.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:518,&quot;width&quot;:912,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:122086,&quot;alt&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/189172282?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F718c0511-f7e3-410f-9a2c-55c3a8b1f052_912x518.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" title="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!yEWh!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F718c0511-f7e3-410f-9a2c-55c3a8b1f052_912x518.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!yEWh!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F718c0511-f7e3-410f-9a2c-55c3a8b1f052_912x518.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!yEWh!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F718c0511-f7e3-410f-9a2c-55c3a8b1f052_912x518.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!yEWh!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F718c0511-f7e3-410f-9a2c-55c3a8b1f052_912x518.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>In Jul-26, Uber announced that it had agreed to the acquisition of Delivery Hero for &#8364;41.50 per share. This equates to an equity value of $14.8bn, or $13.7bn taking into account Uber&#8217;s &#8220;prior stake purchases&#8221; (Uber built a position in Delivery Hero shares at lower prices over the last ~1.5 years). The acquisition is expected to close in H2&#8217;27.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!GtD4!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff68f2604-d268-4bce-b60e-0b954b08d2e1_777x434.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!GtD4!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff68f2604-d268-4bce-b60e-0b954b08d2e1_777x434.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!GtD4!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff68f2604-d268-4bce-b60e-0b954b08d2e1_777x434.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!GtD4!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff68f2604-d268-4bce-b60e-0b954b08d2e1_777x434.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!GtD4!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff68f2604-d268-4bce-b60e-0b954b08d2e1_777x434.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!GtD4!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff68f2604-d268-4bce-b60e-0b954b08d2e1_777x434.png" width="777" height="434" 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff68f2604-d268-4bce-b60e-0b954b08d2e1_777x434.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!GtD4!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff68f2604-d268-4bce-b60e-0b954b08d2e1_777x434.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!GtD4!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff68f2604-d268-4bce-b60e-0b954b08d2e1_777x434.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!GtD4!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff68f2604-d268-4bce-b60e-0b954b08d2e1_777x434.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Uber management believes it is paying ~8x EV / 2027E adj. EBITDA for Delivery Hero. This figure is based on Delivery Hero&#8217;s consensus 2027 EBITDA estimate and includes $1.2bn of expected run-rate synergies.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!WkqX!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F340b7ea7-56c6-4011-8e37-738a043acf35_1265x1097.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!WkqX!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F340b7ea7-56c6-4011-8e37-738a043acf35_1265x1097.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!WkqX!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F340b7ea7-56c6-4011-8e37-738a043acf35_1265x1097.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!WkqX!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F340b7ea7-56c6-4011-8e37-738a043acf35_1265x1097.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!WkqX!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F340b7ea7-56c6-4011-8e37-738a043acf35_1265x1097.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!WkqX!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F340b7ea7-56c6-4011-8e37-738a043acf35_1265x1097.png" width="551" height="477.82371541501976" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/340b7ea7-56c6-4011-8e37-738a043acf35_1265x1097.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1097,&quot;width&quot;:1265,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:551,&quot;bytes&quot;:92687,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/189172282?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F340b7ea7-56c6-4011-8e37-738a043acf35_1265x1097.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!WkqX!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F340b7ea7-56c6-4011-8e37-738a043acf35_1265x1097.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!WkqX!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F340b7ea7-56c6-4011-8e37-738a043acf35_1265x1097.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!WkqX!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F340b7ea7-56c6-4011-8e37-738a043acf35_1265x1097.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!WkqX!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F340b7ea7-56c6-4011-8e37-738a043acf35_1265x1097.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Delivery Hero was acquired after a period of turmoil for the company. In the midst of its expansion, the Delivery Hero over-levered itself to the tune of &#8364;4.1bn in net debt at the end of its 2023 &#8212; a year in which company generated just ~&#8364;250m in adjusted EBITDA and negative free cash flow.</p><p>The situation attracted activist investors Sachem Head in 2024 (which took a Board seat) and Aspex Management in 2026 (which amassed a ~9% stake). In Dec-25 the company formally announced a strategic review, and in Mar-26 confirmed that it had engaged JPMorgan as part of the process.</p><p>In May-24, the company agreed to sell its foodpanda Taiwan business to Uber for $950m, but the deal was ultimately <a href="https://techcrunch.com/2025/03/11/uber-terminates-foodpanda-taiwan-acquisition-citing-regulatory-hurdles/">blocked</a> on antitrust concerns. Uber had to pay a termination fee of $242m to Delivery Hero in Apr-25 as a result. Delivery Hero eventually agreed to sell this business to Grab Holdings for $600m in Mar-26. Additionally, in Dec-24, Delivery Hero IPO&#8217;d its talabat business, selling a 20% stake for proceeds of &#8364;1.8bn. </p><p>As a result of these actions, Delivery Hero was able to meaningfully reduced its debt burden. In the meantime. the company also significantly enhanced its profitability, generating &#8364;903m of EBITDA in 2025.</p><p>DH&#8217;s strategic review process also drew the attention of Uber. As part of the blocked foodpanda Taiwan acquisition, Uber separately bought $300m in newly issued Delivery Hero shares (good for around ~2.5% of the company). Then, starting Apr-26, Uber began rapidly expanding its stake in Delivery Hero. Through a series of transactions, Uber ultimately amassed a ~37% stake in the business prior to the transaction announcement.</p><p>Uber, however, was not able to ultimately acquire all of Delivery Hero&#8217;s segments due to presumably regulatory/anti-trust hurdles, primarily in Europe. We can see below that Uber didn&#8217;t acquire most DH segments in which it already had a presence:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!1NNL!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3014b79e-2bd5-4606-892c-1f1d18117334_1790x1162.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!1NNL!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3014b79e-2bd5-4606-892c-1f1d18117334_1790x1162.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!1NNL!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3014b79e-2bd5-4606-892c-1f1d18117334_1790x1162.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!1NNL!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3014b79e-2bd5-4606-892c-1f1d18117334_1790x1162.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!1NNL!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3014b79e-2bd5-4606-892c-1f1d18117334_1790x1162.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!1NNL!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3014b79e-2bd5-4606-892c-1f1d18117334_1790x1162.png" width="1456" height="945" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/3014b79e-2bd5-4606-892c-1f1d18117334_1790x1162.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:945,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:1043418,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/189172282?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3014b79e-2bd5-4606-892c-1f1d18117334_1790x1162.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!1NNL!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3014b79e-2bd5-4606-892c-1f1d18117334_1790x1162.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!1NNL!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3014b79e-2bd5-4606-892c-1f1d18117334_1790x1162.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!1NNL!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3014b79e-2bd5-4606-892c-1f1d18117334_1790x1162.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!1NNL!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3014b79e-2bd5-4606-892c-1f1d18117334_1790x1162.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Delivery Hero&#8217;s crown jewels seem to be (1) its Baemin business in South Korea (~60% market share), (2) its talabat and Hungerstation businesses in MENA, (3) its Glovo business in Spain (~55% share) and (4) some of its PedidosYa units in LatAm. Its foodpanda business seems relatively challenged (i.e. trailing Grab) across most of the SE Asia markets in which is operates.</p><p>I think DH is ultimately a smart acquisition for Uber:</p><ul><li><p>The price is reasonable at 8x EBITDA. This bakes in a large amount of synergies ($1.2bn). But Uber management is adamant that, if anything, they are sandbagging this synergy estimate.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-62" href="#footnote-62" target="_self">62</a></p></li><li><p>Provides Uber with significantly more scale. The acquisition will add $42bn of gross bookings, taking Uber&#8217;s total GB from $193bn to $235bn (a 22% increase). EBITDA will increase by ~$2.2bn, from $8.7bn to ~$11.0bn (a 26% increase).</p></li><li><p>Adds leading markets. Of the 50 markets added, 38 of them are in the #1 position, according to Uber management. Baemin, talabat and Hungerstation in particular seem like crown jewel assets. Undoubtedly Uber would have liked to have added Glovo&#8217;s Spain unit, but Uber already operates in the country in the #2 position. </p></li><li><p>Shifts more profits to delivery. Prior to DH, Uber generated ~31% of its profits from delivery. Post DH, Uber will generate ~42% of its profits from delivery. The delivery business is less exposed to AV risk.</p></li><li><p>Shifts more profits overseas. Prior to DH, Uber generated ~54% of total revenue from international markets. Post DH, Uber will generate ~63% of revenue from international markets. International markets are less exposed to AV risk.</p></li><li><p>Almost doubles Uber&#8217;s number of multi-product markets. As discussed, Uber&#8217;s multi-product offering is a key differentiator for the company. Thus, the ~doubling of these markets is a great development. The Delivery Hero segments being acquired will be better businesses on a go-forward basis, as they will be combined with a mobility offering. </p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!mClP!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe848b7d0-ca50-4f5f-93c4-89effa7602c8_897x485.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!mClP!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe848b7d0-ca50-4f5f-93c4-89effa7602c8_897x485.png 424w, 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe848b7d0-ca50-4f5f-93c4-89effa7602c8_897x485.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!mClP!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe848b7d0-ca50-4f5f-93c4-89effa7602c8_897x485.png" width="897" height="485" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/e848b7d0-ca50-4f5f-93c4-89effa7602c8_897x485.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:485,&quot;width&quot;:897,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:195777,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/189172282?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe848b7d0-ca50-4f5f-93c4-89effa7602c8_897x485.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!mClP!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe848b7d0-ca50-4f5f-93c4-89effa7602c8_897x485.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!mClP!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe848b7d0-ca50-4f5f-93c4-89effa7602c8_897x485.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!mClP!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe848b7d0-ca50-4f5f-93c4-89effa7602c8_897x485.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!mClP!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe848b7d0-ca50-4f5f-93c4-89effa7602c8_897x485.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" 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acquisition also gives Uber some &#8220;delivery-only&#8221; markets for the first time (e.g. Philippines, Singapore, Cote d&#8217;Ivoire, Morocco, Venezuela). Perhaps this gives Uber the opportunity to add mobility in these countries.</p></li></ul><p>The downside to this acquisition, of course, is that it adds leverage. The deal will be financed with a &#8364;14bn bridge facility (to be refinanced) and cash on hand. However, if all goes according to plan, Uber will only be ~1x levered (on a net basis) by 2027. That&#8217;s pretty manageable, even in a fast-changing industry like Uber&#8217;s. My hope would be that Uber pays down its debt rapidly. The company has the ability to do so, but Uber has also committed to continuing with its buyback activity and also buying a significant number of AVs (discussed later).</p><h4>Autonomous Transition</h4><p>We&#8217;re headed for a world, as a result of AVs, where the cost of delivery (delivery fees + tips) could fall by 50%+. There should be a lot more deliveries in this world. </p><p>The growing consensus seems to be that in the future, some combination of (1) sidewalk robots, (2) mid-range delivery bots (that can drive on residential streets and in bike lanes), and (3) drones will handle our on-demand delivery needs.</p><p>Here is Dara on a Nov-25 <em>HD in HD</em> podcast:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;We think delivery is going to be a combination of <strong>sidewalk robots</strong> that we have in place. We&#8217;ve got 10 partnerships now all around the world &#8212; Serve, Cartken, Avride, and a bunch of others. And these are like, I don&#8217;t know if you&#8217;ve seen them, these robots that walk along the sidewalks for short deliveries. They&#8217;re not around in New York yet. So that&#8217;s one. And then there&#8217;ll be <strong>drones</strong>. So there&#8217;ll be drone delivery that gets you deliveries longer distances in the suburbs. And there are a number of players there. We recently made an investment in Flytrex, who we&#8217;re going to partner up with. And I think we&#8217;ll have some other partners. And then there might be an <strong>in-between, like bike lane robots</strong> or maybe cars although I think that&#8217;s probably too expensive a bill of materials to carry around food.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>Here is Dara again on the <em>On with Kara Swisher</em> podcast from Dec-25. He discusses the three AV form factors that will be a part of the delivery solution. He also discusses the &#8220;last mile&#8221; challenge related to AV delivery.</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;So, number one, I would say Uber Eats is an absolute star in our portfolio. Like, it was it was 10% of our business when I took over. It&#8217;s now almost 50%. The team is doing a great great job there. </em></p><p><em>There isn&#8217;t going to be &#8212; I think AV for mobility is clear because the first mile and last mile taken care of. Like you walk to the car, you walk away from the car. With delivery, it&#8217;s actually an amalgamation of solutions. So, we have <strong>sidewalk robots</strong> for short deliveries within a mile, mile and a half. But for a three-mile delivery, it just doesn&#8217;t work. For those three mile deliveries in urban destinations, we&#8217;re probably going to have to use either <strong>AVs that go in bike lanes</strong> or go on the road as well so that they can get there faster. I&#8217;d say that is behind [versus] sidewalk robots [which] are coming first. And then in suburbs etc., it&#8217;s going to be <strong>drones</strong>. And we are far from commercializing that technology. We&#8217;re in the experimentation phase, but it&#8217;ll be the three of those. </em></p><p><em><strong>And then the question is who&#8217;s going to take care of the first mile and last mile?</strong> Restaurants still, they&#8217;re busy. They don&#8217;t like coming out of the restaurant, putting the food in the robot, etc. And people are lazy, you know, they don&#8217;t want to come down to &#8212; if they&#8217;re in a high-rise. I remember when I was delivering food &#8212; like it&#8217;s amazing, people would deliver from a Chipotle three blocks away because they just want the food at their doorstep. So the first and last mile is still to be solved, but I do think AV is also going to be a huge application as it relates to Eats. And I think our Eats business is ultimately potentially going to be bigger than mobility.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>The last mile challenge might initially be solved through simply lower pricing. If you want a cheaper delivery through a sidewalk robot, you might have to walk out to the curb if in the suburbs or downstairs to the lobby if in a high-rise. For restaurants, they will have to decide if they are willing to walk orders out to delivery bots sitting outside (my sense is most will be). </p><p>As mentioned, Uber is already partnered with a handful of providers of both sidewalk robots and drones. Interestingly, they are finding that the economics of using sidewalk robots are actually already better, in some instances. Here is CFO Balaji Krishnamurthy from a Mar-26 Morgan Stanley conference discussing Uber&#8217;s progress with delivery AVs:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;I think on that front, we&#8217;re in a pretty good spot. <strong>We already have over 1,000 delivery bots on our network in more than 10 cities. We&#8217;re working with about 7 partners in that ecosystem. It spans both sidewalk robots and drones.</strong></em></p><p><em>And what we are seeing right now is sidewalk robots have potential, but they come with their own friction, right? You are -- if you&#8217;re a merchant or a consumer, you&#8217;re now used to seeing a courier show up to your counter, pick up the order and drop it off at your doorstep, whereas sidewalk robots have friction on both ends, and you have to go out and meet the bot. Drones, on the other hand, can be faster. They can cover a larger radius, and they can potentially even drop off the package in your backyard. So there&#8217;s a broader use case there.</em></p><p><em>I think we are going to keep exploring and see where this goes. <strong>The good news is that economics of these deployments is already quite attractive for us.</strong> It&#8217;s interesting for us to be able to deploy these while not having to make a deep investment, and we&#8217;re learning as we go. Long term, no question in our mind that drones and bots will play a much bigger role in delivery, but there&#8217;s still some things to be ironed out.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>How might delivery economics look in an AV future? Below is some back-of-the-envelope analysis, showing what the cost of delivery could be for both sidewalk robots and drones.</p><p>For sidewalk robots, I assume the cost of the robot is $4k and that it lasts 3 years. I assume $3.50 per day for cellular costs, $0.25 per day for electricity and $2,500 annually for storage, repairs and tele-operations. If we also assume the robot does 7 deliveries per day, this works out to $2.04 in costs per delivery.</p><p>Next, I show how the economics of an $18 food order could be divvied up &#8212; contrasting a human courier delivery with an AV delivery. With the AV, I eliminate the $2.50 tip and take delivery fees down from $4 to $3.50. As a result, the consumer is paying $21.50 instead of $24.50 (12% savings). Uber still earns its $4.50, and the restaurant actually earns a bit more. The &#8220;courier&#8221; earns just $2.50 instead of $6.50. 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2d1f7cbe-5150-4594-beaa-859609721a0e_9115x2741.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!W5HE!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2d1f7cbe-5150-4594-beaa-859609721a0e_9115x2741.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Any way you slice it, its a better outcome for the consumer, the restaurant and Uber (even if Uber earns the same amount per transaction &#8212; or even less &#8212; there will be more of them). In the example above, the consumers is saving ~46% on delivery fees (paying $3.50 with AVs vs. $6.50 without). With larger basket sizes, the savings would be even greater.</p><p>Here is the same analysis but for a drone. Again these numbers are just estimates and theoretical. Here I assume the drone costs $15k and that it lasts 4 years. We get to a pretty similar result in terms of cost per delivery.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4AFV!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F193f4ed0-29f6-4cf2-80af-9da5c41456ee_9115x2741.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4AFV!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F193f4ed0-29f6-4cf2-80af-9da5c41456ee_9115x2741.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4AFV!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F193f4ed0-29f6-4cf2-80af-9da5c41456ee_9115x2741.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4AFV!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F193f4ed0-29f6-4cf2-80af-9da5c41456ee_9115x2741.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4AFV!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F193f4ed0-29f6-4cf2-80af-9da5c41456ee_9115x2741.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4AFV!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F193f4ed0-29f6-4cf2-80af-9da5c41456ee_9115x2741.png" width="1456" height="438" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/193f4ed0-29f6-4cf2-80af-9da5c41456ee_9115x2741.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:438,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:3515796,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/189172282?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F193f4ed0-29f6-4cf2-80af-9da5c41456ee_9115x2741.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4AFV!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F193f4ed0-29f6-4cf2-80af-9da5c41456ee_9115x2741.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4AFV!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F193f4ed0-29f6-4cf2-80af-9da5c41456ee_9115x2741.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4AFV!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F193f4ed0-29f6-4cf2-80af-9da5c41456ee_9115x2741.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4AFV!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F193f4ed0-29f6-4cf2-80af-9da5c41456ee_9115x2741.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Note that both examples above don&#8217;t assume any batching, which would further reduce the cost per delivery. </p><p>Here is Uber&#8217;s COO Andrew Macdonald on a Feb-26 <em>The Compound</em> podcast, again, detailing how the economics for AV delivery are actually already cheaper than the human courier equivalent for certain deliveries:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;On the delivery side, what I&#8217;d say is interesting and not well understood is <strong>the unit economics already work.</strong> Our cost per trip for some of our Serve deliveries [using AVs from Serve Robotics], for example, in markets like Los Angeles are <strong>already cheaper on certain deliveries than the human courier equivalent.</strong> And I think that&#8217;s going to be really exciting both for our company, but also for consumers who can save money.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>In the world of mid-range delivery bots, DoorDash seems to be leading the way with its <a href="https://about.doordash.com/en-us/dot">&#8220;Dot&#8221;</a> vehicle. The company unveiled Dot in Sep-25, and it is currently making deliveries in Phoenix, like this one:</p><div class="twitter-embed" data-attrs="{&quot;url&quot;:&quot;https://x.com/Ronald_vanLoon/status/2065558824111489211&quot;,&quot;full_text&quot;:&quot;DoorDash Unveils &#8220;Dot&#8221; &#8212; Its New <span class=\&quot;tweet-fake-link\&quot;>#Autonomous</span> Delivery <span class=\&quot;tweet-fake-link\&quot;>#Robot</span> Aiming for Global Scale\nby <span class=\&quot;tweet-fake-link\&quot;>@WallStreetApes</span>\n\n<span class=\&quot;tweet-fake-link\&quot;>#SupplyChain</span> <span class=\&quot;tweet-fake-link\&quot;>#Robotics</span> <span class=\&quot;tweet-fake-link\&quot;>#Engineering</span> <span class=\&quot;tweet-fake-link\&quot;>#Innovation</span> <span class=\&quot;tweet-fake-link\&quot;>#Technology</span> &quot;,&quot;username&quot;:&quot;Ronald_vanLoon&quot;,&quot;name&quot;:&quot;Ronald van Loon&quot;,&quot;profile_image_url&quot;:&quot;https://pbs.substack.com/profile_images/1107936345769607169/sJKWJd7g_normal.png&quot;,&quot;date&quot;:&quot;2026-06-12T22:16:14.000Z&quot;,&quot;photos&quot;:[{&quot;img_url&quot;:&quot;https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!vWtn!,w_1028,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:best,fl_progressive:steep/l_play_button_usfui2,w_88,e_colorize:0/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F__ss-rehost__tw-video-preview-7_2065558767299616768.jpg&quot;,&quot;link_url&quot;:&quot;https://t.co/EZKHdA3KZG&quot;}],&quot;quoted_tweet&quot;:{},&quot;reply_count&quot;:2,&quot;retweet_count&quot;:2,&quot;like_count&quot;:10,&quot;impression_count&quot;:1024,&quot;expanded_url&quot;:null,&quot;video_url&quot;:&quot;https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/2065558767299616768/pu/vid/avc1/720x1280/Y3DZ4asy970_Dw9x.mp4?tag=12&quot;,&quot;video_preview_media_key&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true}" data-component-name="Twitter2ToDOM"></div><p>Dot is roughly a tenth the size of a car, at less than 5 feet tall and 3 feet wide. It is 350 pounds and can travel up to 20 MPH on streets or in bike lanes. It can fit six pizza boxes or up to 30 pounds of food.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!GEVc!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F435c2fdd-7df1-4ffd-aede-07f874f3f66e_606x542.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!GEVc!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F435c2fdd-7df1-4ffd-aede-07f874f3f66e_606x542.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!GEVc!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F435c2fdd-7df1-4ffd-aede-07f874f3f66e_606x542.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!GEVc!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F435c2fdd-7df1-4ffd-aede-07f874f3f66e_606x542.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!GEVc!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F435c2fdd-7df1-4ffd-aede-07f874f3f66e_606x542.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!GEVc!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F435c2fdd-7df1-4ffd-aede-07f874f3f66e_606x542.png" width="606" height="542" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/435c2fdd-7df1-4ffd-aede-07f874f3f66e_606x542.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:542,&quot;width&quot;:606,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:794266,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/189172282?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F435c2fdd-7df1-4ffd-aede-07f874f3f66e_606x542.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!GEVc!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F435c2fdd-7df1-4ffd-aede-07f874f3f66e_606x542.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!GEVc!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F435c2fdd-7df1-4ffd-aede-07f874f3f66e_606x542.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!GEVc!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F435c2fdd-7df1-4ffd-aede-07f874f3f66e_606x542.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!GEVc!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F435c2fdd-7df1-4ffd-aede-07f874f3f66e_606x542.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Nuro &#8212; yes the same Nuro that is rolling out mobility AVs in partnership Uber &#8212; was actually working on a similar vehicle, pictured below.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!xAIn!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3cfb9ab7-aef4-4f42-b35e-0bd52d40c05b_733x409.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!xAIn!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3cfb9ab7-aef4-4f42-b35e-0bd52d40c05b_733x409.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!xAIn!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3cfb9ab7-aef4-4f42-b35e-0bd52d40c05b_733x409.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!xAIn!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3cfb9ab7-aef4-4f42-b35e-0bd52d40c05b_733x409.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!xAIn!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3cfb9ab7-aef4-4f42-b35e-0bd52d40c05b_733x409.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!xAIn!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3cfb9ab7-aef4-4f42-b35e-0bd52d40c05b_733x409.png" width="733" height="409" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/3cfb9ab7-aef4-4f42-b35e-0bd52d40c05b_733x409.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:409,&quot;width&quot;:733,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:640531,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/189172282?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3cfb9ab7-aef4-4f42-b35e-0bd52d40c05b_733x409.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!xAIn!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3cfb9ab7-aef4-4f42-b35e-0bd52d40c05b_733x409.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!xAIn!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3cfb9ab7-aef4-4f42-b35e-0bd52d40c05b_733x409.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!xAIn!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3cfb9ab7-aef4-4f42-b35e-0bd52d40c05b_733x409.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!xAIn!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3cfb9ab7-aef4-4f42-b35e-0bd52d40c05b_733x409.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>The company eventually pivoted away from a strategy of selling full-stack delivery vehicles (to its current strategy of licensing AV mobility software). As a result, this vehicle is no longer in development. However, undoubtedly other providers will step in to fill this opportunity space should it prove to be a valuable one.</p><p>Overall, the opportunity for disruption in delivery through AVs seems lower than in mobility over the medium term: (1) there is less focus on it from the likes of Waymo, Tesla, etc. (for now), (2) there is no Tesla equivalent that already manufactures these delivery AVs at massive scale today, (3) even if there were, in order to provide a holistic delivery offering (and compete with Uber Eats/DoorDash), a provider would need to amalgamate different AV form factors (drone, sidewalk and mid-range), (4) the &#8220;last mile problem&#8221; as discussed earlier, (5) a robust 1P app is harder to build in delivery due to the huge number of merchants you&#8217;ll have to onboard, and (6) as previously mentioned, these delivery networks run at razor-thin margins (and actually make most of their money on advertising, which only makes sense to offer once you reach a very large scale).</p><p>However, AVs do still seem to open the door for someone like Amazon or potentially Waymo to compete, as they obviate the need to build a supply of human couriers, which was arguably the largest barrier to entry. </p><div><hr></div><h2>Freight</h2><p>Unbeknownst to some, Uber actually has a &#8220;Freight&#8221; division. You can think of it kind of like &#8220;Uber for trucking.&#8221; Uber Freight matches shippers (companies that need to ship things) with carriers (trucking companies and independent truckers). </p><p>Uber Freight was established in ~2017, and in 2025 it generated ~$5.1bn in bookings (or ~2.5% of Uber&#8217;s total bookings). Growth has been flat the last couple of years, and the segment operates around breakeven. Because Uber Freight&#8217;s revenue is booked on a gross basis (i.e. the amount it charges shippers, not the difference between what it charges shippers and pays out to carriers &#8212; or what would be &#8220;net&#8221; revenue), it also reports a revenue figure of ~$5.1bn. This revenue figure is not &#8220;apples-to-apples&#8221; with the rest of Uber&#8217;s business, where revenue is almost entirely presented on a &#8220;net&#8221; basis.</p><p>Uber Freight initially operated solely within the &#8220;brokerage&#8221; or &#8220;spot market&#8221; segment of the freight market. This represents about ~20-25% of the market. ~40-50% of the market consists of &#8220;private fleets,&#8221; or fleets owned by the companies that are doing the shipping (e.g. Walmart, Pepsi, Sysco). The other ~30% of the market is where mostly large shippers (e.g. Target) sign longer-term contracts with mostly larger trucking companies (e.g. J.B. Hunt, Knight-Swift) for more regular shipping needs.</p><p>The broker share of the market has actually increased from ~10% to ~20-25% over the last ~25 years. As the ease of booking shipment through brokers has increased, it has led to smaller shippers increasingly ditching their fleets. Also the carrier base has continued to fragment &#8212; there are over 900k trucking companies in the US, and 95% of them operate 10 or fewer trucks. </p><p>Uber, not surprisingly, took the approach of offering a highly &#8220;digitally native&#8221; freight brokerage experience. Instead of negotiating rates by phone which is what a traditional broker might have done, Uber provided instant quotes. If a shipper accepted an Uber quote, and Uber ultimately couldn&#8217;t find a carrier to fulfill the shipment at a profitable rate, Uber simply lost money on the transaction. Additionally, Uber Freight plugs right into a shipper&#8217;s ERP system. Uber also provided &#8220;Uber-style&#8221; visibility into where shipments were at any given point in time.</p><p>With Uber&#8217;s acquisition of Transplace in 2021, Uber broadened its Freight offering beyond the brokerage market. Transplace, which Uber acquired for $2.25bn, was a leading software and managed services provider operating something like a fully outsourced logistics provider for shippers (sometimes called a &#8220;4PL&#8221;). The company was formed in 2000 when six leading trucking companies (JB Hunt, MS Carriers, Swift Transportation, Werner Enterprises, Covenant Transport and US Xpress) merged (and spun out) their logistics arms.</p><p>Transplace&#8217;s software platform offered shippers sophisticated supply chain planning, shipping optimization and day-to-day execution. From Uber&#8217;s Transplace M&amp;A deck:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!c_c5!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd4675b1a-d9ad-4722-8868-ca84fc364320_1009x546.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!c_c5!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd4675b1a-d9ad-4722-8868-ca84fc364320_1009x546.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!c_c5!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd4675b1a-d9ad-4722-8868-ca84fc364320_1009x546.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!c_c5!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd4675b1a-d9ad-4722-8868-ca84fc364320_1009x546.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!c_c5!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd4675b1a-d9ad-4722-8868-ca84fc364320_1009x546.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!c_c5!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd4675b1a-d9ad-4722-8868-ca84fc364320_1009x546.png" width="1009" height="546" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/d4675b1a-d9ad-4722-8868-ca84fc364320_1009x546.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:546,&quot;width&quot;:1009,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:184006,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/189172282?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd4675b1a-d9ad-4722-8868-ca84fc364320_1009x546.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!c_c5!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd4675b1a-d9ad-4722-8868-ca84fc364320_1009x546.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!c_c5!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd4675b1a-d9ad-4722-8868-ca84fc364320_1009x546.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!c_c5!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd4675b1a-d9ad-4722-8868-ca84fc364320_1009x546.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!c_c5!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd4675b1a-d9ad-4722-8868-ca84fc364320_1009x546.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>At the time of the acquisition, Transplace was doing ~$100m of EBITDA and growing ~15% YoY. It claimed gross retention of 96%, an average customer tenure of ~8-9 years and an average contract length of ~3-5 years.</p><p>While Uber has failed to grow the business much in recent years, they remain committed to it for now. Here is Dara from a Mar-26 <em>Semafor</em> podcast:</p><blockquote><p><em>DK: &#8220;I view freight as our first shot at getting into the end-to-end logistics business. You know, what we do with Uber Eats to some extent, we&#8217;re doing on-demand, local, last mile logistics. One thing you may or may not know about Eats is, if for example you order an Apple iPhone [through Apple directly], you can get it delivered to your home and that&#8217;s an Uber Eats courier who goes and picks it up from the store and [delivers it]. So to some extent we&#8217;re already doing third-party last mile delivery. </em></p><p><em>What freight represents is first mile delivery. Right from the factory to the warehouse. And then there&#8217;s this middle mile that we haven&#8217;t penetrated yet. <strong>Our vision is to build an end-to-end on-demand, next generation logistics network powered partially by truckers moving from factories to warehouses, smaller trucks from the warehouse to the store and ultimately individual consumers from the store to the end consumer.</strong> </em></p><p><em>We&#8217;re the only company that&#8217;s taking it on. Freight is part of that ecosystem that we&#8217;re putting together. It&#8217;s a big challenge, but an enormous opportunity for us to build that end-to-end logistics stack, and it&#8217;s something I&#8217;m really, really excited about.&#8221;</em></p><p><em>Interviewer: &#8220;Sounds like you&#8217;re firmly committed to it.&#8221;</em></p><p><em>DK: &#8220;Oh, yeah.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>My expectation would be that Uber sees AI and autonomous trucking as potential wedges to grow share. AI is a technology that could meaningfully improve its managed services and brokerage offerings (e.g. help reduce costs for shippers, reduce downtime for carriers). Also Uber <a href="https://techcrunch.com/2021/12/15/aurora-self-driving-trucks-are-using-uber-freight-to-haul-goods-for-customers/">seems</a> <a href="https://techcrunch.com/2023/09/21/waabi-and-uber-freight-partner-to-accelerate-autonomous-trucking/">highly</a> <a href="https://techcrunch.com/2022/06/07/waymo-via-and-uber-freight-partner-up-for-the-long-haul/">focused</a> on securing driverless trucking capacity for its brokerage and managed services offerings. Uber has made meaningful investments in Aurora and Waabi, two leading AV tech providers in the trucking space. </p><p>I&#8217;m not ascribing any value to Uber Freight at this point. It hasn&#8217;t grown in 3 years, it isn&#8217;t profitable, it doesn&#8217;t seem to enjoy much in the way of synergies with the rest of Uber (at this point at least), and it&#8217;s unclear to me if it has much of a moat. </p><p>Further, in May-26 Amazon introduced Amazon Supply Chain Services (ASCS), opening up Amazon&#8217;s logistics network to any business (with core offerings including freight, distribution &amp; fulfillment and parcel shipping):</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!_ERN!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F982d3b37-d9b9-4918-b074-4d683f4caad3_772x436.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!_ERN!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F982d3b37-d9b9-4918-b074-4d683f4caad3_772x436.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!_ERN!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F982d3b37-d9b9-4918-b074-4d683f4caad3_772x436.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!_ERN!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F982d3b37-d9b9-4918-b074-4d683f4caad3_772x436.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!_ERN!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F982d3b37-d9b9-4918-b074-4d683f4caad3_772x436.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!_ERN!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F982d3b37-d9b9-4918-b074-4d683f4caad3_772x436.png" width="772" height="436" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/982d3b37-d9b9-4918-b074-4d683f4caad3_772x436.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:436,&quot;width&quot;:772,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:288744,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/189172282?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F982d3b37-d9b9-4918-b074-4d683f4caad3_772x436.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!_ERN!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F982d3b37-d9b9-4918-b074-4d683f4caad3_772x436.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!_ERN!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F982d3b37-d9b9-4918-b074-4d683f4caad3_772x436.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!_ERN!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F982d3b37-d9b9-4918-b074-4d683f4caad3_772x436.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!_ERN!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F982d3b37-d9b9-4918-b074-4d683f4caad3_772x436.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>My guess is that this was not a great development for Uber Freight. This seems like potentially the type of solution Uber was ultimately going for (and more).</p><div><hr></div><h2>Valuation</h2><p><em>Multiples</em></p><p>Uber currently trades for ~12x &#8216;27e EBIT and ~10x &#8216;27e EBITDA, pro forma for the impact of Delivery Hero.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!JWDy!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8d347fd7-83ae-46ed-876a-8100f99594b0_2640x1373.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!JWDy!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8d347fd7-83ae-46ed-876a-8100f99594b0_2640x1373.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!JWDy!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8d347fd7-83ae-46ed-876a-8100f99594b0_2640x1373.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!JWDy!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8d347fd7-83ae-46ed-876a-8100f99594b0_2640x1373.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!JWDy!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8d347fd7-83ae-46ed-876a-8100f99594b0_2640x1373.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!JWDy!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8d347fd7-83ae-46ed-876a-8100f99594b0_2640x1373.png" width="1456" height="757" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/8d347fd7-83ae-46ed-876a-8100f99594b0_2640x1373.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:757,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:252722,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/189172282?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8d347fd7-83ae-46ed-876a-8100f99594b0_2640x1373.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!JWDy!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8d347fd7-83ae-46ed-876a-8100f99594b0_2640x1373.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!JWDy!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8d347fd7-83ae-46ed-876a-8100f99594b0_2640x1373.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!JWDy!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8d347fd7-83ae-46ed-876a-8100f99594b0_2640x1373.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!JWDy!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8d347fd7-83ae-46ed-876a-8100f99594b0_2640x1373.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Note that the non-GAAP EBIT figures above deduct SBC. The non-GAAP EBITDA figures do not, however. I&#8217;m not showing a FCF multiple because, as discussed earlier, Uber&#8217;s captive insurer inflates its traditional FCF metric (OCF - Capex). </p><p>My EBIT figures may prove to be a bit aggressive (they imply EBIT growth of 40% and 28% in &#8216;26 and &#8216;27, respectively, for Uber&#8217;s legacy business). However, I wouldn&#8217;t expect them to be wildly off the mark &#8212; EBIT grew 50% in &#8216;25 and 42% in Q1&#8217;26.</p><p><em>Comps</em></p><p>Below are a selection of comps for Uber, showing certain trading and operational metrics.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!FjhC!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd6410602-2c77-4dee-9a55-a351f6f4170c_4000x1182.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!FjhC!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd6410602-2c77-4dee-9a55-a351f6f4170c_4000x1182.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!FjhC!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd6410602-2c77-4dee-9a55-a351f6f4170c_4000x1182.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!FjhC!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd6410602-2c77-4dee-9a55-a351f6f4170c_4000x1182.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!FjhC!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd6410602-2c77-4dee-9a55-a351f6f4170c_4000x1182.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!FjhC!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd6410602-2c77-4dee-9a55-a351f6f4170c_4000x1182.png" width="1456" height="430" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/d6410602-2c77-4dee-9a55-a351f6f4170c_4000x1182.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:430,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:728141,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/189172282?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd6410602-2c77-4dee-9a55-a351f6f4170c_4000x1182.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!FjhC!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd6410602-2c77-4dee-9a55-a351f6f4170c_4000x1182.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!FjhC!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd6410602-2c77-4dee-9a55-a351f6f4170c_4000x1182.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!FjhC!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd6410602-2c77-4dee-9a55-a351f6f4170c_4000x1182.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!FjhC!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd6410602-2c77-4dee-9a55-a351f6f4170c_4000x1182.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Note that the Uber numbers above are not adjusted for Delivery Hero.</p><p>Looking at EV / &#8216;26 EBITDA, it&#8217;s interesting that Uber doesn&#8217;t trade at any type of premium to its comp set. DoorDash specifically trades at a large premium to Uber (~24x vs. ~14x). Much of the difference is perhaps attributable to (1) less perceived AV risk for DoorDash and (2) DoorDash&#8217;s higher recent growth (in bookings and users). </p><p>Also interesting is the delta in monthly active users between Uber and DoorDash. Uber has ~202mm monthly actives vs. DoorDash with just ~56mm. ~63% of DoorDash&#8217;s monthly actives are already DashPass members. For Uber, the figure is just ~23%. Also DoorDash generates almost twice the annual GMV per monthly active (~$1,822) vs. Uber (~$958). This seems to suggest that Uber has more opportunity to penetrate its existing user base. DoorDash&#8217;s numbers are skewed by being US centric vs. Uber&#8217;s which include more developing regions such as India and Brazil.</p><p>Uber&#8217;s reported take rate in delivery is ~19% vs. DoorDash at just ~13%. This would seem like a somewhat precarious position for Uber, reminiscent of Expedia vs. Booking.com. Booking, with a lower take rate and focus on building supply, blew past Expedia which held take rates higher and focused on building demand (a story Dara knows well). However, the delta is not as bad as it looks because (1) Uber is generating more ad revenue as a percentage of total bookings than DoorDash and (2) DoorDash&#8217;s bookings figure includes tips and Uber&#8217;s does not. Both factors inflate Uber&#8217;s take rate vs. DoorDash. </p><p>Grab is perhaps the most comparable business to Uber as it has both a mobility business and a delivery business. Grab trades at a much lower GMV multiple than Uber (~0.48x vs. ~0.79x). However they trade in line on revenue and EBITDA. Grab is showing very low take rates in both mobility (~15%) and delivery (~13%).</p><p>It should be noted that Grab is projecting $1.5BN of EBITDA in 2028, and it trades for just ~7x that figure. Rumors that Meituan, the largest food delivery player in China, could be entering SE Asia combined with competition from Shopee (the largest ecommerce platform in SE Asia who has launched food delivery) seems to be keeping a (perhaps well-deserved) cap on the multiple. Grab, however, is also much less at risk from AVs. AVs are much further away from being comparable on a price per mile basis to human drivers in the very cheap SE Asia region, where Grab operates exclusively. </p><p><em>M&amp;A Comps</em></p><p>Below are a selection of M&amp;A comps. </p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!BRgG!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4b4c0ca1-dbf6-4446-bd46-8c4f5bd8a501_4000x1540.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!BRgG!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4b4c0ca1-dbf6-4446-bd46-8c4f5bd8a501_4000x1540.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!BRgG!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4b4c0ca1-dbf6-4446-bd46-8c4f5bd8a501_4000x1540.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!BRgG!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4b4c0ca1-dbf6-4446-bd46-8c4f5bd8a501_4000x1540.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!BRgG!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4b4c0ca1-dbf6-4446-bd46-8c4f5bd8a501_4000x1540.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!BRgG!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4b4c0ca1-dbf6-4446-bd46-8c4f5bd8a501_4000x1540.png" width="1456" height="561" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/4b4c0ca1-dbf6-4446-bd46-8c4f5bd8a501_4000x1540.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:561,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:678632,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/189172282?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4b4c0ca1-dbf6-4446-bd46-8c4f5bd8a501_4000x1540.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!BRgG!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4b4c0ca1-dbf6-4446-bd46-8c4f5bd8a501_4000x1540.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!BRgG!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4b4c0ca1-dbf6-4446-bd46-8c4f5bd8a501_4000x1540.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!BRgG!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4b4c0ca1-dbf6-4446-bd46-8c4f5bd8a501_4000x1540.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!BRgG!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4b4c0ca1-dbf6-4446-bd46-8c4f5bd8a501_4000x1540.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>The median delivery GMV multiple is around ~0.50x trailing. </p><p>Uber paid just 0.43x GMV and ~8x EBITDA for Delivery Hero, a delivery business many times larger than every other comp in the set (other than JET). </p><p><em>Simple &#8220;Gut-Check&#8221; Model</em></p><p>If we assume:</p><ul><li><p>~15% total bookings CAGR through 2032</p><ul><li><p>Mobility bookings was 20% in Q1&#8217;26 on a CC basis (ex DH)</p></li><li><p>Delivery bookings was 23% in Q1&#8217;26 on a CC basis (ex DH)</p></li></ul></li><li><p>EBITDA as a % of GMV grows from ~4.7% in 2025 (pro forma for DH) to 6.50% in 2031</p></li><li><p>Uber keeps 30% of the EBITDA it generates as cash to the balance sheet</p></li><li><p>A 12x LTM EBITDA multiple</p></li></ul><p>This results in a ~3.0x MOIC and a ~20% IRR over 6 years.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!XI-M!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9e1fbbbd-90c8-4447-ab1d-3a5a62761913_1983x1949.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!XI-M!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9e1fbbbd-90c8-4447-ab1d-3a5a62761913_1983x1949.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!XI-M!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9e1fbbbd-90c8-4447-ab1d-3a5a62761913_1983x1949.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!XI-M!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9e1fbbbd-90c8-4447-ab1d-3a5a62761913_1983x1949.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!XI-M!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9e1fbbbd-90c8-4447-ab1d-3a5a62761913_1983x1949.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!XI-M!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9e1fbbbd-90c8-4447-ab1d-3a5a62761913_1983x1949.png" width="1456" height="1431" 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9e1fbbbd-90c8-4447-ab1d-3a5a62761913_1983x1949.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!XI-M!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9e1fbbbd-90c8-4447-ab1d-3a5a62761913_1983x1949.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!XI-M!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9e1fbbbd-90c8-4447-ab1d-3a5a62761913_1983x1949.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!XI-M!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9e1fbbbd-90c8-4447-ab1d-3a5a62761913_1983x1949.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>This assumes everything more-or-less goes according to plan. In theory, it gives investors a healthy margin of safety to work with.</p><div><hr></div><h2>Management + Ownership</h2><h4>Leadership </h4><p><em>Dara Khosrowshahi (CEO, 56 YO)</em></p><p>Dara has been the CEO of Uber since 2017.</p><p>He was previously the CEO of Expedia from 2005 to 2017, and before that the CFO of IAC Travel. Before joining IAC, Dara served as a VP at Allen &amp; Company, a firm he joined as an analyst.</p><p>Dara had the good fortune of serving at IAC/Expedia under the leadership of Barry Diller. Dara met Barry while at Allen &amp; Co. Over time, Dara became one of Barry&#8217;s go-to bankers as Barry built up IAC through acquisition (and pivoted from a focus on cable TV networks to internet properties). Dara eventually joined IAC as Barry&#8217;s &#8220;deal guy,&#8221; before eventually taking the reins at Expedia (which IAC spun out in 2005 as a standalone, publicly traded company). </p><p>At Expedia, Dara was apparently named one of the Highest Rated CEOs on Glassdoor. He still serves on the Board of Expedia and he was previously on the board of the New York Times Company. </p><p>Dara was originally born in Iran. He left the country with his family during the Iranian Revolution when he was 9 years old. His family eventually settled in Tarrytown, New York. Dara earned a bachelor&#8217;s degree in engineering from Brown University.</p><p>Dara&#8217;s a likable, self-proclaimed &#8220;consensus-builder&#8221; type. He strikes me as high quality manager with a strong strategic sense. Interestingly, he&#8217;s not only a second-time CEO, but a second-time <em>marketplace</em> CEO. I believe this has its benefits. </p><p>Clearly something that was seared into Dara&#8217;s brain from his time at Expedia was (1) the power of keeping take rates low and (2) the importance of being a &#8220;supply-led&#8221; marketplace. While Expedia had a good run under Dara&#8217;s leadership, it&#8217;s main competitor &#8212; Booking.com &#8212; did much better. Booking.com overtook Expedia during this period and now boasts a market cap of ~$130bn (vs. Expedia&#8217;s of ~$30bn). When Dara took over at Expedia, it had a &#8220;demand-led&#8221; approach, advertising heavily to build demand while maintaining a premium &#8220;take rate.&#8221; Booking.com, in contrast, kept take rates lower while focusing on building best-in-class hotel inventory supply. </p><p>Dara on his lessons from competing against Booking.com from a Nov-25 <em>HD in HD</em> podcast:</p><blockquote><p>Interviewer: <em>&#8220;If we look at the Expedia story&#8230;I would say elephant in the room is the whole Booking[.com] situation, how that evolved. Now with the benefit of hindsight maybe explain what happened, what is your version of why Booking is where it is versus Expedia?&#8221;</em></p><p>DK: <em>&#8220;Yeah definitely, painful story. And you know, during my years both companies did well but Booking did better. I think two lessons there. </em></p><p><em><strong>One is that if you&#8217;re building an aggregation platform, supply is king.</strong> Expedia, Hotels.com built more &#8212; it was more about audience. &#8220;Hey, how do I build audience, how do I build a brand and then if I build an audience and a brand, what supply can I bring on board to fulfill that demand? Booking.com started with supply first. Which is, &#8216;Hey, I&#8217;m just going to go out and add every single hotel in a particular marketplace and each hotel is another opportunity to sell to a new audience.&#8217; <strong>And if Expedia had 50 hotels in a market and if Booking.com had 200 hotels in a market, that market would convert better for Booking.com than Expedia. So supply, you know, running a supply business was a lesson for me.</strong> </em></p><p><em><strong>And the second was actually starting from a low margin position. Expedia, at the time when I joined, had a take rate of about 30%. Booking.com had a take rate of 15%.</strong> We thought 30% was better because we could make more money per transaction, we could put that money into advertising, build more audience. And we would beat Booking.com at the audience game. <strong>But what Booking got right was, because they were charging 15%, they were able to sign up more supply, and again, supply brought them audience.</strong> </em></p><p><em>So the two lessons are, one is start from a low margin position and build up your margins over time and they have at Expedia. We had to reduce our margins over a period of time. And then second is supply is king&#8230;I think in hindsight we got the supply memo a bit too late, a couple of years too late. And then once we started organizing against it, we had a great five, six year run against Booking.com and Priceline. </em></p><p><em>The toughest part was actually the margins. Taking down [take rates] from 30% to 15%. Literally cutting your revenue as a public company, incredibly painful&#8230;You can identify what you&#8217;re losing, which is a huge amount of profitability when you cut margins. You can&#8217;t identify what you&#8217;re gaining. You know, a supplier may be a little bit less angry at you, for example. It&#8217;s just hard to identify the return from cutting your margins. And that was again 6, 7-year journey that we went through cutting revenue margin, cutting revenue margin, that was really painful as a public company. But we had to do it. In hindsight, I wish we had done it faster.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>On many occasions Dara has stressed the importance of keeping take rates low.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-63" href="#footnote-63" target="_self">63</a><a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-64" href="#footnote-64" target="_self">64</a> Here is Dara on the dangers of raising take rates, from a Jun-23 <em>Acquired</em> podcast:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;<strong>High take rates are dangerous. Our job as a company is to grow volume as much as we can as fast as we can and make our shareholders happy enough, minimizing the take rate.</strong> <strong>Taking as much of that dollar and and giving it to drivers and couriers.</strong> Last quarter, gross bookings grew over 22% or so which is really good. The money that drivers and couriers, including tips, made on the platform grew by 30%. And at the same time we were able to expand our margins&#8230;<strong>Sometimes it is torture. Watch every single nickel and dime. Be incredibly efficient in everything that you do. Automate everything. Get fraud out of the system, etc. So that you can actually operate a business at scale at the lowest take rate possible.</strong> Talking about Booking.com&#8230;when I started at Expedia &#8212; Expedia&#8217;s take rate was 25 percent and Bookings&#8217; take rate was 15. And over torturous 13 years we took Expedia&#8217;s take rate from 25 to the teens &#8212; it was like 17 or so when I left. And those are like pure margin dollars that you&#8217;re taking out. Like there&#8217;s no goodness that comes out of it and so it&#8217;s just really hard work to do&#8230; </em></p><p><em>You don&#8217;t want to put yourself in that position. It&#8217;s very tempting. It&#8217;s very, very easy. This is the temptation. Obviously this quarterly treadmill that you&#8217;re on, etc. You can make someone happy by increasing take rate and throwing it to the bottom line and we really, really culturally try to resist that notion.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>Overall, Dara and team have a &#8220;shared-savings&#8221; bent in how they are positioning the business, which strikes me as a strong positive. Uber is using its scale to reduce costs for the consumer. Here is Dara from a Mar-25 Morgan Stanley conference:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;So I think the team, first of all, is executing really well. <strong>But the biggest area that I believe we should do better at is just cost, right?&#8230;</strong></em></p><p><em>Building out a true low-cost product, shared product, getting 2 or 3 people into a car is a very significant challenge in -- operationally, algorithmically. We&#8217;re making progress there. So I&#8217;m happy about the progress there, but this is -- I think we will be possibly the only company in the world that&#8217;s going to solve this at scale. To be clear, we&#8217;re losing money in share, but the loss rates are coming down. The efficiencies continue to increase, and I&#8217;m quite confident of the activity of that team. </em></p><p><em>When you look at Uber Eats, for example, we are -- one of our biggest programs is what we call merchant-funded offers. So actually, merchants providing buy one, get one free, if you spend $30 on a basket, gets a $10 item for free, et cetera. These are promotions that these merchants run. Those promotions give merchants more access to our audience, and merchant-funded offers are now running at over $1 billion of, call it, savings for our eaters per year as well. </em></p><p><em>And then, of course, for us, the membership program is a giant discount program, so to speak. We&#8217;re trading higher frequency, higher reliability for discounts to our consumers as well. It is absolutely working. But near term, to be clear, membership is an investment, right? So the discounts come through before the frequency increases come through, the retention comes through. But we&#8217;re now seeing memberships. One of the reasons why you&#8217;re seeing Uber Eats growth rate actually accelerate in addition to the newer businesses like grocery, et cetera, is that you&#8217;re seeing the frequency and the retention from our membership program come into play as the cohorts mature as well. </em></p><p><em><strong>So for us, just pricing to the end consumer is an area of real focus for us. And I&#8217;d like to be making more progress there than we have been in the past couple of years.</strong>&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>This type of long-term mentality and stewardship is good to see.</p><p>Dara seemingly has an almost ideal background for his current role. He has an engineering degree, but also a great deal of finance expertise (banking at Allen &amp; Co, former CFO of IAC Travel). He has extensive M&amp;A experience, which mostly came under the tutelage of famed dealmaker Barry Diller. This experience is coming in especially handy as Uber cuts a myriad of deals across the AV landscape (in addition to other M&amp;A). Dara also has extensive public CEO experience from his time at Expedia (which is also a marketplace, like Uber), where he also replaced a founder-CEO in Rich Barton.</p><p><em>Track Record</em></p><p>Overall, I&#8217;d say Uber has executed well since Dara took the reins in 2017. He was taking over a business that was well-positioned, of course. But nonetheless, I think he&#8217;s put up a very solid track record.</p><p>Since 2017, Revenue has almost 7x&#8217;d, a 27% CAGR. Meanwhile, the profitability of the business has inflected majorly. From -$2.6bn in adj EBITDA in 2017, the company generated $8.7bn of adj EBITDA in 2025. In Q1&#8217;26, GB grew by 21% (on a CC basis) and the company generated $1.9bn of GAAP EBIT (~15% of rev).</p><p>The team has expanded Uber&#8217;s products and geos served in sensible ways. For example, Uber introduced new products like &#8220;Reserve,&#8221; &#8220;Wait &amp; Save,&#8221; Uber for Business (U4B), Uber Teens, and Moto (in developing countries). These products are growing significantly faster than the core business. For example, U4B is growing more than twice as fast as mobility overall.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-65" href="#footnote-65" target="_self">65</a> Uber has expanded into grocery, retail and direct on the delivery side. They&#8217;ve continued to enter additional countries where it made sense (such as South Korea, Germany, Spain, Italy, and Argentina, which are some of their fastest growing markets today). They&#8217;ve quickly grown a large advertising business, which has transformed the profitability of Uber&#8217;s delivery segment.  </p><p>Dara has also overseen the divestments of a number of highly cash-burning segments with murky futures. These included the divestments of (1) Uber&#8217;s SE Asia business, (2) Uber Eats India, (3) Uber Elevate (it&#8217;s air taxi technology division), and (4) ATG (it&#8217;s self-driving tech division). Before Dara joined, the company also divested its China business and its Russia business. Many of these exited markets are notoriously competitive, and I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s unreasonable to think that, had Uber stayed, it might still be slugging it out today with various competitors in these regions. Altogether, these moves have contributed to a much healthier level of profitability for Uber.</p><p>Perhaps the most controversial of its divestments was that of the ATG division, or its self-driving tech division. There were a number of reasons why Uber elected to divest it, including: (1) the segment was burning a lot of cash (and Uber needed to cut costs, especially in the early COVID period), (2) safety concerns/risk (one of Uber&#8217;s self-driving test vehicles hit and killed a pedestrian in 2018), (3) by not having its own self-driving tech (i.e. being a neutral third party), Uber was better positioned to work with almost every other AV provider in the ecosystem, and (4) perhaps most importantly, Uber viewed its core strength as its marketplace business and technology (not cutting edge AV technology), and that it was best for Uber to focus on its core competencies.  </p><p>Here is Dara from a Nov-25 HD in HD podcast explaining the decision to cut the ATG segment:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;We cut back on AV during COVID, which was an emergency for the company. We went from losing two billion to losing three and a half billion or so. <strong>And we only had so much time to get to profitability. We were going to run out of cash. So there was a necessity there to some extent.</strong> But the other factor for me is that companies have cores that they&#8217;re great at and we were a software company. We&#8217;re great at building algorithms, building search, matching, etc. We weren&#8217;t a great hardware company and hardware is really tough. The cycles are different. It&#8217;s multi-year cycles versus you know multi-week cycles, so to speak, which is how we operate. So I kind of concluded that it wasn&#8217;t something that we were truly going to be great at. <strong>There was a set of companies that were just working on AV and it was life or death for them. For us it was important but it was a little bit of a side project. And then the necessity of it forced us to get out.</strong> </em></p><p><em>The other element that was really important to me was that because we were building our own AV, no one else in the ecosystem wanted to work with us because they were competitive with us. And so our hypothesis was that AV was not going to be winner take all. <strong>There are going to be multiple players who were going to win. And in order to play with the greatest talent base in the ecosystem, we needed to become a neutral party</strong> and that we would actually go and actively fund the ecosystem and build up the ecosystem. And help the ecosystem grow versus trying to build our own competitor. So I think it&#8217;s the right decision, but time will tell.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>Uber also sold off this division in the &#8220;pre-AI&#8221; era. Self-driving was a much harder problem to solve in the pre-AI era as, according to my understanding, you basically had to program in rules/logic for driving and to solve edge cases (yikes) vs. &#8220;just&#8221; using an end-to-end neural net. So this would have made the decision easier. </p><p>Regardless, I think the decision to sell was probably the right one for the reasons listed above. This is not to mention that getting the business to a very profitable state unlocked for Uber the ability to secure AV supply for their platform. Getting the business to a very profitable state, in fact, may arguably have been much more important in contributing to Uber&#8217;s AV capabilities than anything else. </p><p>Bill Gurley would tell you Uber should have taken its self-driving tech and kick-started an open source project (vs. selling it). I&#8217;m not one to argue with Bill Gurley, so perhaps that was a miss. From a Feb-26 <em>Stratechery</em> interview:</p><blockquote><p><em>BT: &#8220;Do you have any takes on Uber versus autonomous vehicles? Are they going to be okay?&#8221;</em></p><p><em>BG: &#8220;Well, I will give you one take. <strong>I have been pushing the company for over 10 years to embrace open source and I think it would&#8217;ve been the best thing they could have possibly done</strong>. They took the assets they had at the time and sold them into, I can&#8217;t even remember the name of the company, and they gave that company money and so if that IP had instead kick-started an open source project.&#8221;</em></p><p><em>BT: &#8220;They&#8217;d have way more potential suppliers.&#8221;</em></p><p><em>BG: &#8220;Yeah, and you commoditize that layer. Part of what we&#8217;re seeing in this AI war, and Google got really good at this not only with Android but Kubernetes, like you use open source to commoditize another layer so that your layer is protected as much as possible.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>I think we are sort of getting open-source technology anyway via NVIDIA, however, so perhaps it won&#8217;t make a big difference in the end.</p><p>I&#8217;d probably characterize the team&#8217;s M&amp;A track record as &#8220;okay.&#8221; Uber paid $7bn+ for Cornershop, Postmates and Drizly, which were perhaps overpays but helped Uber kickstart its delivery business in the immediate COVID aftermath. It paid $3.1bn for Careem, which helped cement Uber&#8217;s rideshare leadership in the Middle East (this did not translate to delivery, however &#8212; talabat and HungerStation dominate the Middle East in delivery). Uber&#8217;s most recent acquisitions have been sensible looking tuck-ins: Foodpanda Taiwan (was ultimately blocked), Trendyol GO, Getir&#8217;s food delivery biz, SpotHero and Blacklane. Perhaps its most clear miss was paying $2.25bn for Transplace, which doesn&#8217;t seem like a long-term winner at this point (Uber Freight is currently ex growth and unprofitable). Most recently, in Jul-26, Uber acquired Delivery Hero for ~$18bn, a deal I like for Uber as discussed previously. </p><p>Another area in which you could potentially knock management is their relative tardiness in going after the suburbs, particularly on the delivery side. This opened the door for DoorDash to entrench itself. Uber is now attempting to compete more aggressively in the suburbs, but DoorDash is quite formidable at this point.</p><p>Something Uber has done well, and that should greatly assist Uber in the suburbs, is going all in on Uber One. They have smartly priced the membership at the same level of DashPass while bundling in more rewards than anybody else (it seems clearly the superior membership to have in the delivery/mobility world). It&#8217;s a &#8220;shared-savings&#8221; approach, leveraging Uber&#8217;s scale and breadth of offerings. I like how they are recycling most/all of the dollars they are generating through their new partnership with Expedia towards additional benefits for Uber One members. I like how they intend to offer additional parking-related benefits for Uber One members by way of their acquisition of SpotHero. They are creating an all-things transportation bundle that has real attractiveness. Even if Uber never makes a profit from hotels for example, these types of moves increase the attractiveness of Uber One, which will feed Uber&#8217;s mobility and delivery businesses.</p><p>In terms of the autonomous transition, Uber is clearly trying to be on its front foot. I like that they&#8217;ve been aggressive using their balance sheet to secure AVs for the Uber platform. Uber Autonomous Solutions was an important step and builds nicely on Uber&#8217;s existing capabilities. I agree with the thought that AV fleets will mostly be &#8220;financial-ized&#8221; at some point, and that remaining an asset-light platform is the ideal future course.</p><p>One thing that stands out very positively, inspired by this <a href="https://x.com/KCapitalAbhi/status/2031978557292102013">tweet</a> from K Capital, is Uber&#8217;s pace of execution. All of the following things have happened since just February: (1) reported 21% bookings growth (on a CC basis) and nearly ~$2bn of GAAP EBIT in Q1&#8217;26, (2) acquired SpotHero, (3) acquired Blacklane, (4) acquired Getir&#8217;s delivery business in Turkey, (5) made a highly complex &#8220;carve-out&#8221; acquisition of Delivery Hero (and executed on a series of machinations to build a stake in the business prior to the deal), (6) expanded its stake in WeRide, (6) unveiled Uber Autonomous Solutions, (7) launched Europe&#8217;s first commercial robotaxi service in Zagreb in partnership with Pony.ai, (8) participated in Wayve&#8217;s $1.5bn Series D, (9) made a $300m investment into Rivian and committed to buying between 10-40k R2 robotaxis, (10) made a $200m additional investment in Lucid while upp&#8217;ing its vehicle commitment from 20k to 35k, (11) announced a partnership with NVIDIA to launch robotaxis in 28 cities by 2028, (11) partnered with Hertz to power fleet management for Uber&#8217;s upcoming launch of Nuro/Lucid robotaxis in the SF Bay Area (13) unveiled hotel bookings through the Uber app in partnership with Expedia, (12) announced additional partnerships with Joby Aviation, Baidu, WeRide, Zoox, Motional, MOIA, Wayve and (14) are infusing AI-driven efficiencies throughout its business functions. This ability to do many things well at once surely is a positive indicator in terms of management quality. </p><p>Overall, Dara &amp; team strike me as a good stewards of the business. They&#8217;ve transformed the profitability of the business, while maintaining very healthy growth. They&#8217;re working hard to be on front lines of autonomy. They&#8217;re working hard on making the Uber One membership as attractive and sticky as possible. I feel pretty confident they will allocate capital at least reasonably wisely.</p><p><em>Broader Management Team</em></p><p>The broader management team seems pretty good on the whole.</p><ul><li><p>Andrew Macdonald (President &amp; COO, 41 YO). Andrew was appointed President and COO in Jun-25. He previously served as Head of Global Mobility from 2019 to 2025, and held various general management and regional leadership roles at Uber from 2012 to 2019. Prior to Uber, he was a consultant at Bain &amp; Co from 2007 to 2010 and later co-founded multiple early-stage private companies. In <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6t0o-46pW4">this</a> interview on <em>The</em> <em>Compound</em> podcast, I thought he squeezed in a large number of insights into just 30 min. </p></li><li><p>Balaji Krishnamurthy (CFO, 41 YO). Balaji was recently appointed CFO in Feb-26. He previously served as VP, Strategic Finance from 2023 to 2026, and Head of Investor Relations from 2020 to 2023. Prior to joining Uber, he was VP of Equity Research, US Hardware and Communications Technology at Goldman Sachs, from 2011 to 2019. I&#8217;ve enjoyed Balaji&#8217;s commentary on recent earnings calls</p></li><li><p>Sachin Kansal (Chief Product Officer, ~47 YO). Sachin is responsible for the company&#8217;s Mobility and Delivery products, overseeing product management, design, and product operations. He also oversees product and technology strategy for some of Uber&#8217;s new initiatives such as autonomous vehicles, sustainability, taxis, and Uber for Teens. He joined Uber in 2017 as the company&#8217;s first product leader focused on safety technology. Sachin was previously the VP of Product at Lookout, a leading mobile security company, where he managed their Consumer product line and scaled the business to 120M+ users. Before that, Sachin served as Chief Product Officer at Flywheel Software, a provider of on-demand transportation through taxicabs. He spent the early part of his career at Palm (acquired by HP), where he was the Director of Product Management focused on Palm&#8217;s mobile operating system webOS and mobile applications. <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7eKl6VBKCM&amp;t=31s">This</a> WSJ interview from Sachin is a good listen, and I&#8217;ve also enjoyed his appearances in Uber&#8217;s &#8220;Go-Get&#8221; annual product showcases.</p></li><li><p>Jill Hazelbaker (Chief Marketing Officer, 44 YO). Jill has served as CMO and SVP, Public Affairs since 2019. She was SVP/VP, Communications and Public Policy from 2015 to 2019. Prior to Uber, she was VP, Communications and Public Policy of Snap Inc. from 2014 to 2015. From 2010 until 2014, she held senior communications and public policy roles at Google. Prior to joining Google, she served as Press Secretary to Mayor Michael Bloomberg&#8217;s re-election campaign in New York City in 2009 and as the Communications Director for Senator John McCain&#8217;s U.S. presidential campaign from 2007 to 2008.</p></li><li><p>Tony West (SVP, Chief Legal Officer, 60 YO). Tony has served as SVP, Chief Legal Officer and Corporate Secretary since 2017. Prior to joining Uber, he was EVP, Government Affairs, General Counsel and Corporate Secretary from 2014 to 2017 at PepsiCo. Prior to PepsiCo, he served as the 17th Associate Attorney General of the US from 2012 to 2014, after previously serving as the Assistant Attorney General for the Civil Division in the U.S. Department of Justice from 2009 to 2012. From 2001 to 2009, he was a partner at Morrison &amp; Foerster LLP. </p></li></ul><p><em>Board of Directors</em></p><ul><li><p>Ron Sugar (Chairman, 77 YO). Ron has served as the Independent Chairperson of the Board since 2018. He was Chairman and CEO of Northrop Grumman, a global aerospace and defense company, from 2003 until his retirement in 2010, and President and COO from 2001 to 2003. He was President and COO of Litton Industries, Inc. from 2000 until the company was acquired by Northrop Grumman Corporation in 2001. Prior to that time, he served as CFO of TRW Inc. He is an adviser to Bain &amp; Co and was formerly an adviser to Ares Management and to Singapore&#8217;s Temasek Investment Company. He is a trustee of the University of Southern California, board of visitors member of the University of California, Los Angeles Anderson School of Management, past Chairman of the Aerospace Industries Association, and a member of the National Academy of Engineering. Dr. Sugar currently serves on the board of Apple. He previously served on the board of Air Lease Corporation from 2010 to 2020, the board of Chevron from 2005 to 2023, and the board of Amgen from 2010 to 2024. Ron and Dara have a standing weekly hour-long call primarily focused on longer-term strategic direction and goals. </p></li><li><p>Revathi Advaithi (58 YO). Revathi has served on the Board since 2020. She has been CEO of Flex Ltd., the third largest EMS provider in the world, since 2019. Prior to Flex, she was President and COO, Electrical Sector, of Eaton Corporation plc, a power management company, from 2015 to 2019. Prior to that role, she held senior management roles at Eaton from 2008 to 2015. Between 2002 and 2008, she worked at Honeywell, where she held several senior roles within the sourcing and supply chain functions of the aerospace sector before being named Vice President and General Manager of Honeywell&#8217;s Field Solutions business in 2006. She held various other roles at Eaton between 1995 and 2002.</p></li><li><p>Turqi Alnowaiser (49 YO). Turqi has served on the Board since 2023. He has served as Deputy Governor and Head of the International Investments Division at The Public Investment Fund, a sovereign wealth fund of Saudi Arabia, since 2021, and previously served as Head of International Investments at The Public Investment Fund from 2016 to 2021. He formerly held several executive roles at Saudi Fransi Capital, a leading financial services firm based in Saudi Arabia, including as Head of Asset Management. Before his career at Saudi Fransi Capital, he specialized in developing, managing, and regulating various financial products across asset classes at Morgan Stanley, the Capital Market Authority of Saudi Arabia, and the Saudi Industrial Development Fund. He has served on the board of Lucid Group since 2019 and on the board of Hapag-Lloyd AG since 2018.</p></li><li><p>Nikesh Arora (58 YO). Nikesh has served on the Board since 2025. He has served as the Chairman and CEO of Palo Alto Networks, a leading global cybersecurity company, since 2018. Prior to joining Palo Alto Networks, from 2016 through 2018, he was an angel investor and from 2016 through 2017, he served as an advisor to SoftBank. From 2015 through 2016, he served as President and COO of SoftBank and from 2014 through 2015, he served as vice chair and CEO of SoftBank Internet and Media. Prior to SoftBank, from 2004 through 2014, he held multiple senior leadership operating roles at Google, Inc., including serving as SVP and Chief Business Officer, from 2011 to 2014. He also serves on the board of Compagnie Financiere Richemont S.A., a public Switzerland-based luxury goods holding company. He previously served on the boards of SoftBank, Sprint Corp., Colgate-Palmolive Company, and Yahoo! Japan, among others.</p></li><li><p>Ursula Burns (67 YO). Ursula has served on the Board since 2017. In 2021, she co-founded Integrum Holdings, an investment firm focused on partnering with technology-enabled services companies. Previously, she was Chairman of VEON Ltd., an international telecommunications and technology company, from 2017 to 2020 and CEO from 2018 to 2020. She was Chairman of Xerox Corporation from 2009 to 2017 and CEO from 2009 to 2016, prior to which she advanced through many engineering and management positions after joining the company in 1980. She currently serves on the boards of IHS Holding Limited and Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company Ltd. She previously served on the boards of Endeavor Group Holdings, Inc. from 2021 to 2025, American Express from 2004 to 2018, Nestl&#233; S.A. from 2017 to 2021, and Exxon Mobil Corporation from 2012 to 2023.</p></li><li><p>Robert Eckert (71 YO). Rober has served on the Board since 2020. He has been an Operating Partner of FFL Partners, a private equity firm, since 2014. He is also Chairman Emeritus of Mattel, a role he has held since 2013. He was Mattel&#8217;s Chairman and CEO from 2000 until 2011, and he continued to serve as its Chairman until 2012. He previously worked for Kraft Foods, Inc. for 23 years, and served as President and CEO from 1997 until 2000. From 1995 to 1997, Mr. Eckert was Group VP of Kraft Foods, and from 1993 to 1995, he was President of the Oscar Mayer foods division of Kraft Foods. Mr. Eckert currently serves on the boards of Amgen, Levi Strauss &amp; Co., and Quinn Company. He previously served on the board of McDonald&#8217;s from 2003 to 2023.</p></li><li><p>Amanda Ginsberg (56 YO). Amanda has served on the Board since 2020. She has been an Operating Partner of Advent International, a global private equity investor, since 2022. She was CEO of Match Group from 2017 to 2020. Prior to this role, she was CEO of Match Group Americas from 2015 to 2017, where she was responsible for the Match U.S. brand, Match Affinity Brands, OkCupid, PlentyOfFish, ParPerfeito, and overall North and South American expansion. Previously, she was the CEO of The Princeton Review from 2014 to 2015, where she expanded its services to include online services, including tutoring and college counseling. She currently serves on the board of ThredUp Inc. and the board of Universal Music Group. She previously served on the boards of Care.com from 2012 to 2014; J.C. Penney from 2015 to 2020; Match Group from 2017 to 2020; and Z-Work Acquisition Corp. from 2020 to 2022.</p></li><li><p>John Thain (70 YO). John has served on the Board since 2017. He is the Founding Partner of Pine Island Capital Partners, a private investment firm, and has served as Chairman since 2017. He was Chairman and CEO of CIT Group from 2010 until 2016. In 2009, prior to joining CIT Group, he was President of Global Banking, Securities and Wealth Management for Bank of America. From 2007 to 2009, prior to its merger with Bank of America, Mr. Thain was Chairman and CEO of Merrill Lynch &amp; Co. From 2006 to 2007, he was CEO and a director of NYSE Euronext, Inc. following the NYSE Group and Euronext N.V. merger. He joined the New York Stock Exchange in 2004, serving as CEO and a director. From 2003 through 2004, Mr. Thain was the President and COO of Goldman Sachs, and from 1999 through 2003 he was President and Co-Chief Operating Officer. From 1994 to 1999, he was CFO and Head of Operations, Technology and Finance, and from 1995 to 1997 he was also Co-Chief Executive Officer for European operations for Goldman Sachs. He currently serves on the supervisory board of Deutsche Bank AG. He previously served on the board of Goldman Sachs Group Inc. from 1998 to 2004.</p></li><li><p>Alexander Wynaendts (65 YO). Alexander has served on the Board since 2021. From 2008 to 2020, he was CEO and Chairman of the management and executive boards of Aegon NV, one of the world&#8217;s leading providers of life insurance, pensions, and asset management. Prior to Aegon, Alexander began his career in 1984 with ABN AMRO Bank, working in Amsterdam and London in the Dutch bank&#8217;s capital markets, asset management, corporate finance, and private banking operations. He currently serves on the board of Air France-KLM SA and the Supervisory Board of Deutsche Bank AG, where he serves as Chairman. He formerly served on the board of Citigroup Inc. from 2016 to 2021.</p></li></ul><p><em>Notable Departures</em></p><ul><li><p>Travis Kalanick &amp; other early employees (Garrett Camp, Ryan Graves, Emil Michael, etc.). Kalanick is now CEO of Atoms, a robotics company focused on food, mining and transportation.</p></li><li><p>Sundeep Jain. Former Chief Product Officer and SVP Engineering from 2018-2024. Now President of Mercor.</p></li><li><p>Pierre-Dimitri Gore-Coty. Former SVP of Uber Eats from 2021-2025. Joined Uber in 2012. Now GP at VC firm Plural.</p></li><li><p>Prashanth Mahendra-Rajah. Former CFO from 2023-2026. Now a Senior Policy Advisor at the US Department of Commerce. Member of the Board at Shopify.</p></li><li><p>Nelson Chai. Former CFO from 2018-2024. Now CEO of DailyPay. Member of the Board at Chubb, Thermo Fisher Scientific.</p></li></ul><h4>Uber Culture</h4><p>Uber culture has been the topic of much discussion over the years.</p><p>In the early days it was pretty toxic, I think it&#8217;s fair to say. Hard-working, but also very much &#8220;kill or be killed.&#8221; Sharp elbows and stepping on toes were encouraged. HR complaints were not followed up on. Misogynistic behavior festered. Borderline illegal competitive behavior was encouraged. This &#8220;win at all costs&#8221; culture helped power Uber to great heights as the undisputed global leader in the industry, but it also caused a self-implosion.</p><p>With the appointment of Dara as CEO, amongst other things, the Board sought something of a cultural reset. Here are Uber&#8217;s official values today:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!3KEH!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F705bf910-1e6b-479a-ab7c-0a8f590607a4_4400x2994.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!3KEH!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F705bf910-1e6b-479a-ab7c-0a8f590607a4_4400x2994.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!3KEH!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F705bf910-1e6b-479a-ab7c-0a8f590607a4_4400x2994.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!3KEH!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F705bf910-1e6b-479a-ab7c-0a8f590607a4_4400x2994.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!3KEH!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F705bf910-1e6b-479a-ab7c-0a8f590607a4_4400x2994.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!3KEH!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F705bf910-1e6b-479a-ab7c-0a8f590607a4_4400x2994.png" width="1456" height="991" 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F705bf910-1e6b-479a-ab7c-0a8f590607a4_4400x2994.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!3KEH!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F705bf910-1e6b-479a-ab7c-0a8f590607a4_4400x2994.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!3KEH!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F705bf910-1e6b-479a-ab7c-0a8f590607a4_4400x2994.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!3KEH!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F705bf910-1e6b-479a-ab7c-0a8f590607a4_4400x2994.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" 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y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>From interviews, it seems Dara, after joining, tried his best to retain Uber&#8217;s hard-working culture. He takes pride in it. He seems fairly unafraid to &#8220;push out&#8221; those that aren&#8217;t willing to put in the hours. From a Feb-26 <em>DOAC</em> podcast:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;So part of working hard is like, you know, sending emails to the team on a Saturday and if I don&#8217;t get a response on Saturday, sending them an email on Sunday with a question mark. &#8216;What&#8217;s going on?&#8217; </em></p><p><em>You know, I think at Expedia in hindsight &#8212; we worked intensely and we went hard, but but not as hard as I like. Because Expedia was, we were selling vacations, right? The product that we were selling was about turning yourself off. <strong>And so we did talk about work-life balance. And in hindsight, at Uber, I don&#8217;t.</strong></em></p><p><em>You come to Uber, you&#8217;re going to work your ass off. We&#8217;re going to be really demanding. If you&#8217;re not performing, we&#8217;re going to let you know. And if you don&#8217;t fix it, we&#8217;re going to push you out. </em></p><p><em>But while it will be incredibly hard, you will have real agency at the company. We&#8217;re a big company, but individuals can make a big difference. And it&#8217;s a company that&#8217;s making a difference in the world. You&#8217;re going to learn so much. And while you will have worked hard, you&#8217;re going to have a great time. But this is, don&#8217;t come here if you want to coast. And I&#8217;m very clear about that. And I should have been more clear at Expedia.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>He&#8217;s also tried to retain a culture that encourages disagreement and debate (but where taking that too far, or &#8220;being an asshole,&#8221; is not). He seeks out truth tellers<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-66" href="#footnote-66" target="_self">66</a>, and tries to lead by example along that dimension. He&#8217;s candid in interviews almost to a fault.</p><p>Uber&#8217;s Chief Product Officer Sachin Kansal <a href="https://youtu.be/MnBZlEQ14fY">espouses</a> a deep understanding of the customer (both quantitatively and qualitatively, including frequently dogfooding the product) and shipping quickly (or as he calls it, &#8220;ship, ship, ship&#8221;).</p><p>Glassdoor has Uber rated a 3.7/5.0 on 16,151 reviews (though many of which are from drivers/couriers). 71% &#8220;approve&#8221; of Dara. Only 53% have a &#8220;positive business outlook.&#8221;</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!D5kj!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc952eb85-54cf-4c66-a08b-d2e998c57258_419x440.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!D5kj!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc952eb85-54cf-4c66-a08b-d2e998c57258_419x440.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!D5kj!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc952eb85-54cf-4c66-a08b-d2e998c57258_419x440.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!D5kj!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc952eb85-54cf-4c66-a08b-d2e998c57258_419x440.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!D5kj!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc952eb85-54cf-4c66-a08b-d2e998c57258_419x440.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!D5kj!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc952eb85-54cf-4c66-a08b-d2e998c57258_419x440.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" 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sense is that, for the right person, Uber can still be a very exciting place to work. Millions of people use the product in everyday life all across the globe. Navigating the autonomous transition is interesting, challenging, and offers the prospect of large future rewards. There are difficult technical challenges to solve. And it&#8217;s still a magical product in many ways. </p><h4>Ownership</h4><p>Management and director ownership is quite low on a percentage basis, which is not ideal. That said, the dollar-value of the shares owned by insiders is still quite meaningful.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!oKXV!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc75d3b9c-c902-4967-9d50-e1d73d836531_7669x5750.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!oKXV!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc75d3b9c-c902-4967-9d50-e1d73d836531_7669x5750.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!oKXV!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc75d3b9c-c902-4967-9d50-e1d73d836531_7669x5750.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!oKXV!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc75d3b9c-c902-4967-9d50-e1d73d836531_7669x5750.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!oKXV!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc75d3b9c-c902-4967-9d50-e1d73d836531_7669x5750.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!oKXV!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc75d3b9c-c902-4967-9d50-e1d73d836531_7669x5750.png" width="1456" height="1092" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/c75d3b9c-c902-4967-9d50-e1d73d836531_7669x5750.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1092,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:3161864,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/189172282?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc75d3b9c-c902-4967-9d50-e1d73d836531_7669x5750.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!oKXV!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc75d3b9c-c902-4967-9d50-e1d73d836531_7669x5750.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!oKXV!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc75d3b9c-c902-4967-9d50-e1d73d836531_7669x5750.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!oKXV!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc75d3b9c-c902-4967-9d50-e1d73d836531_7669x5750.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!oKXV!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc75d3b9c-c902-4967-9d50-e1d73d836531_7669x5750.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>The relatively rare and always welcomed CFO insider purchase took place in Feb-26, when CFO Balaji Krishnamurthy bought $1.6mm in stock on the open market. This is the only major insider purchase over the last 2 years from what I can tell.</p><h4>Management Compensation</h4><p>Management compensation is mostly a combination of (1) base salary, (2) annual cash bonus targeted at 100-200% of base salary (that is awarded based on a mix of company-specific and individual-specific annual goals), and (3) equity incentives consisting of a mix of performance-based RSUs (PRSUs), time-based RSUs, and stock options.</p><p>PRSUs and stock options account for ~3/4ths of targeted equity comp for Dara and Balaji. Less so for Andrew (~one-half), Jill (~1/3rd) and Tony (~1/3rd).</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NBld!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbff5f02d-94e3-4070-bc73-d8f56a151c75_10498x5364.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NBld!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbff5f02d-94e3-4070-bc73-d8f56a151c75_10498x5364.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NBld!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbff5f02d-94e3-4070-bc73-d8f56a151c75_10498x5364.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NBld!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbff5f02d-94e3-4070-bc73-d8f56a151c75_10498x5364.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NBld!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbff5f02d-94e3-4070-bc73-d8f56a151c75_10498x5364.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NBld!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbff5f02d-94e3-4070-bc73-d8f56a151c75_10498x5364.png" width="1456" height="744" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/bff5f02d-94e3-4070-bc73-d8f56a151c75_10498x5364.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:744,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:5329764,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/189172282?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbff5f02d-94e3-4070-bc73-d8f56a151c75_10498x5364.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NBld!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbff5f02d-94e3-4070-bc73-d8f56a151c75_10498x5364.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NBld!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbff5f02d-94e3-4070-bc73-d8f56a151c75_10498x5364.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NBld!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbff5f02d-94e3-4070-bc73-d8f56a151c75_10498x5364.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NBld!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbff5f02d-94e3-4070-bc73-d8f56a151c75_10498x5364.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Annual cash bonus is derived from a mix of company goals (60% financial / 40% strategic &amp; operational priorities) multiplied by an &#8220;individual modifier&#8221; (that is based on the achievement of individual/functional goals). Here is how the company goals were calculated for 2025:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!eXem!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbd8b8bba-cbae-4523-9b17-4626cee50384_686x500.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!eXem!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbd8b8bba-cbae-4523-9b17-4626cee50384_686x500.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!eXem!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbd8b8bba-cbae-4523-9b17-4626cee50384_686x500.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!eXem!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbd8b8bba-cbae-4523-9b17-4626cee50384_686x500.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!eXem!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbd8b8bba-cbae-4523-9b17-4626cee50384_686x500.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!eXem!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbd8b8bba-cbae-4523-9b17-4626cee50384_686x500.png" width="686" height="500" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/bd8b8bba-cbae-4523-9b17-4626cee50384_686x500.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:500,&quot;width&quot;:686,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:254796,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/189172282?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbd8b8bba-cbae-4523-9b17-4626cee50384_686x500.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!eXem!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbd8b8bba-cbae-4523-9b17-4626cee50384_686x500.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!eXem!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbd8b8bba-cbae-4523-9b17-4626cee50384_686x500.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!eXem!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbd8b8bba-cbae-4523-9b17-4626cee50384_686x500.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!eXem!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbd8b8bba-cbae-4523-9b17-4626cee50384_686x500.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>PRSU &#8220;achievement&#8221; (or vesting) is determined at the end of 3 years. 80% of the award is based on the achievement of key financials goals/metrics, and 20% is based on the achievement of long-term strategic goals and metrics. The entire award is then subject to a TSR multiplier (ranging from 0.7x to 1.3x) based on Uber stock&#8217;s performance vs. the S&amp;P500.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OISA!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6da3c47e-6530-4d99-b6bd-d67b701de3ae_848x246.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OISA!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6da3c47e-6530-4d99-b6bd-d67b701de3ae_848x246.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OISA!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6da3c47e-6530-4d99-b6bd-d67b701de3ae_848x246.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OISA!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6da3c47e-6530-4d99-b6bd-d67b701de3ae_848x246.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OISA!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6da3c47e-6530-4d99-b6bd-d67b701de3ae_848x246.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OISA!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6da3c47e-6530-4d99-b6bd-d67b701de3ae_848x246.png" width="848" height="246" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/6da3c47e-6530-4d99-b6bd-d67b701de3ae_848x246.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:246,&quot;width&quot;:848,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:75395,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/189172282?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6da3c47e-6530-4d99-b6bd-d67b701de3ae_848x246.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OISA!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6da3c47e-6530-4d99-b6bd-d67b701de3ae_848x246.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OISA!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6da3c47e-6530-4d99-b6bd-d67b701de3ae_848x246.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OISA!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6da3c47e-6530-4d99-b6bd-d67b701de3ae_848x246.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OISA!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6da3c47e-6530-4d99-b6bd-d67b701de3ae_848x246.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>The company is moving from using an adjusted EBITDA figure to a Non-GAAP EBIT figure (including the cost of SBC) as one of its metrics for measuring financial performance, a positive development.</p><p>Thomas Reiner of Altimeter points out that the company has been setting performance targets ahead of street consensus in recent years &#8212; certainly a &#8220;green flag:&#8221;</p><div class="twitter-embed" data-attrs="{&quot;url&quot;:&quot;https://x.com/treiner5/status/1910729953353884007&quot;,&quot;full_text&quot;:&quot;Some credit due to the $UBER board the past couple years in terms of setting target compensation.\n\nIn both 2023 and 2024 EBITDA targets were set above where street consensus was at the time AND the company delivered ahead of target. h/t <span class=\&quot;tweet-fake-link\&quot;>@dkhos</span> \n\nGBV targets weren't as &quot;,&quot;username&quot;:&quot;treiner5&quot;,&quot;name&quot;:&quot;Thomas Reiner&quot;,&quot;profile_image_url&quot;:&quot;https://pbs.substack.com/profile_images/1318921540474269698/MHWUZh_M_normal.jpg&quot;,&quot;date&quot;:&quot;2025-04-11T16:21:35.000Z&quot;,&quot;photos&quot;:[{&quot;img_url&quot;:&quot;https://pbs.substack.com/media/GoRD1SfbYAInwDj.jpg&quot;,&quot;link_url&quot;:&quot;https://t.co/TH1kwJ3Xir&quot;},{&quot;img_url&quot;:&quot;https://pbs.substack.com/media/GoREg-Xa8AAaOAv.png&quot;,&quot;link_url&quot;:&quot;https://t.co/TH1kwJ3Xir&quot;},{&quot;img_url&quot;:&quot;https://pbs.substack.com/media/GoREqDCbYAEqi9K.jpg&quot;,&quot;link_url&quot;:&quot;https://t.co/TH1kwJ3Xir&quot;}],&quot;quoted_tweet&quot;:{},&quot;reply_count&quot;:2,&quot;retweet_count&quot;:2,&quot;like_count&quot;:21,&quot;impression_count&quot;:6238,&quot;expanded_url&quot;:null,&quot;video_url&quot;:null,&quot;video_preview_media_key&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true}" data-component-name="Twitter2ToDOM"></div><p>He also notes that dilution has been relatively tame for the company in recent years.</p><div class="twitter-embed" data-attrs="{&quot;url&quot;:&quot;https://x.com/treiner5/status/1985751318280220896&quot;,&quot;full_text&quot;:&quot;Kudos to <span class=\&quot;tweet-fake-link\&quot;>@dkhos</span> and the entire $UBER team on moving to guidance metrics that are inclusive of stock-based compensation and dilution:\n\n<span class=\&quot;tweet-fake-link\&quot;>@Uber</span> has done a great job of reducing dilution as they've scaled, but this next step of aligning reported metrics with the actual drivers of LT&quot;,&quot;username&quot;:&quot;treiner5&quot;,&quot;name&quot;:&quot;Thomas Reiner&quot;,&quot;profile_image_url&quot;:&quot;https://pbs.substack.com/profile_images/1318921540474269698/MHWUZh_M_normal.jpg&quot;,&quot;date&quot;:&quot;2025-11-04T16:49:42.000Z&quot;,&quot;photos&quot;:[{&quot;img_url&quot;:&quot;https://pbs.substack.com/media/G47MZhPaYAAjJQl.png&quot;,&quot;link_url&quot;:&quot;https://t.co/HAvzlTVUlk&quot;},{&quot;img_url&quot;:&quot;https://pbs.substack.com/media/G47MnexbQAIIUVP.jpg&quot;,&quot;link_url&quot;:&quot;https://t.co/HAvzlTVUlk&quot;}],&quot;quoted_tweet&quot;:{&quot;full_text&quot;:&quot;BG2 Ep5. Pod drop. Deep Dive on Stock Comp, Google Gemini / Apple, TikTok US &amp;amp; the New AI Cold War, MSFT / Inflection &amp;amp; VC Valuations for LLMs &#128165;&#128074; @altcap @bgurley&quot;,&quot;username&quot;:&quot;BG2Pod&quot;,&quot;name&quot;:&quot;Bg2 Pod&quot;,&quot;profile_image_url&quot;:&quot;https://pbs.substack.com/profile_images/1749517716795613185/rT8GD4N6_normal.jpg&quot;},&quot;reply_count&quot;:7,&quot;retweet_count&quot;:23,&quot;like_count&quot;:225,&quot;impression_count&quot;:153222,&quot;expanded_url&quot;:null,&quot;video_url&quot;:null,&quot;video_preview_media_key&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true}" data-component-name="Twitter2ToDOM"></div><h4>Capital Allocation</h4><p>Capital allocation at Uber today mixes a few different priorities: (1) investing in organic growth (less mature products &amp; geos), (2) seeding the Uber platform with AVs and generally helping to advance the AV ecosystem, (3) acquisitions, and (4) returning capital to shareholders in the form of buybacks.</p><p>Here&#8217;s the company&#8217;s &#8220;official&#8221; capital allocation framework, laid out at its 2024 investor day:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!GxBO!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff9e14682-ef47-4b86-bd01-d13d9d9f9ab3_872x480.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!GxBO!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff9e14682-ef47-4b86-bd01-d13d9d9f9ab3_872x480.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!GxBO!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff9e14682-ef47-4b86-bd01-d13d9d9f9ab3_872x480.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!GxBO!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff9e14682-ef47-4b86-bd01-d13d9d9f9ab3_872x480.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!GxBO!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff9e14682-ef47-4b86-bd01-d13d9d9f9ab3_872x480.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!GxBO!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff9e14682-ef47-4b86-bd01-d13d9d9f9ab3_872x480.png" width="872" height="480" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/f9e14682-ef47-4b86-bd01-d13d9d9f9ab3_872x480.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:480,&quot;width&quot;:872,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:140714,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/189172282?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff9e14682-ef47-4b86-bd01-d13d9d9f9ab3_872x480.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!GxBO!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff9e14682-ef47-4b86-bd01-d13d9d9f9ab3_872x480.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!GxBO!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff9e14682-ef47-4b86-bd01-d13d9d9f9ab3_872x480.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!GxBO!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff9e14682-ef47-4b86-bd01-d13d9d9f9ab3_872x480.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!GxBO!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff9e14682-ef47-4b86-bd01-d13d9d9f9ab3_872x480.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Because of Uber&#8217;s recent inflection in profitability, the company can actually afford to do all of the above simultaneously, according to management.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-67" href="#footnote-67" target="_self">67</a> Here is CFO Balaji Krishnamurthy from Q4&#8217;25 earnings:</p><blockquote><p>BK: <em>&#8220;Sure. So we did lay out our capital allocation priorities in quite a lot of detail. But just to quickly summarize how we think about this. Our first priority is to ensure that we are making appropriate reinvestments behind the opportunity we&#8217;re seeing in our core business. We are in a good position where even as we make those investments, we are throwing off a lot of cash.</em></p><p><em>As we said, we were already generating about $10 billion of free cash flows, growing 40% as of the last year. So that gives us a lot of room to make investments in ensuring that we are advancing our AV strategy and potentially evaluating any selective bolt-on M&amp;A opportunities as they come along. And then that still leaves us with a significant amount of cash that we can return to shareholders. <strong>So this is not a trade-off for us in the sense that we are choosing one or the other. We&#8217;re able to do all of these things in parallel.</strong></em></p><p><em>As to your question on whether we would be returning 50% of free cash flows, based on our current visibility into what we&#8217;re seeing as well as the fact that our stock remains really cheap, <strong>we will continue to be aggressive buyers of our stock, and you should expect that it continues at a steady cadence</strong>, and we are on track to reducing our share count by a healthy amount as we go forward.&#8221;</em></p><p>DK: <em>&#8220;And I think <strong>the good news here is with our free cash flow generation and our expectation of the free cash flow generation increasing going forward, we can do both</strong>. We can invest appropriately as it relates to growth. And then at the same time, we are going to continue reducing the share count because ultimately, all of us are shareholders, and we think right now the opportunity to buy back shares is pretty awesome.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>Below is a list of investments Uber has made in the AV ecosystem. This is on top of all of the partnerships that Uber has struck (e.g. WeRide in Dubai/Abu Dhabi, Pony in Zagreb, Apollo Go in London, Nuro in SF, etc.).</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!2fAs!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2a08e45f-adef-4a5b-bb0b-de6bb3e5fab5_3067x1757.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!2fAs!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2a08e45f-adef-4a5b-bb0b-de6bb3e5fab5_3067x1757.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!2fAs!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2a08e45f-adef-4a5b-bb0b-de6bb3e5fab5_3067x1757.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!2fAs!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2a08e45f-adef-4a5b-bb0b-de6bb3e5fab5_3067x1757.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!2fAs!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2a08e45f-adef-4a5b-bb0b-de6bb3e5fab5_3067x1757.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!2fAs!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2a08e45f-adef-4a5b-bb0b-de6bb3e5fab5_3067x1757.png" width="1456" height="834" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/2a08e45f-adef-4a5b-bb0b-de6bb3e5fab5_3067x1757.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:834,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:655368,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/189172282?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2a08e45f-adef-4a5b-bb0b-de6bb3e5fab5_3067x1757.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!2fAs!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2a08e45f-adef-4a5b-bb0b-de6bb3e5fab5_3067x1757.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!2fAs!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2a08e45f-adef-4a5b-bb0b-de6bb3e5fab5_3067x1757.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!2fAs!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2a08e45f-adef-4a5b-bb0b-de6bb3e5fab5_3067x1757.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!2fAs!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2a08e45f-adef-4a5b-bb0b-de6bb3e5fab5_3067x1757.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>By my count, Uber has committed $1.6bn+ in the form of equity investments and another ~$3.5-4.6bn in the form of vehicle commitments (or $5-6bn+ in total). The vehicle commitments are over 5+ years, and are based on partners hitting certain self-driving milestones (so they may not all come to fruition). The FT recently published an <a href="https://www.ft.com/content/564c26d9-489c-435b-88f7-2df388e058d3?syn-25a6b1a6=1">article</a> stating that Uber has committed more like ~$10bn (~$2.5bn in equity / ~$7.5bn in vehicle commitments), so I could be short. The FT article does not provide a breakdown by investment. </p><p>It should be noted that Uber&#8217;s largest investment cumulatively &#8212; $500mm and a 35k vehicle commitment to Lucid &#8212; has perhaps already gone sideways. It was reported in Jul-26, just two months after Uber&#8217;s second investment in the company, that Lucid had <a href="https://www.ft.com/content/2ea2d9d3-e415-4812-9cec-75f9c6f9514f?syn-25a6b1a6=1">brought in turnaround advisors</a> AlixPartners. This sent Lucid stock down by more than half on the day. Lucid denied it was filing for bankruptcy, saying &#8220;the rumors are completely false&#8221; and that &#8220;the company has sufficient liquidity to carry its operations well into next year.&#8221; Lucid laid off 18% of its workforce in Jun-26 which followed a 12% cut in Feb-26.</p><p>As discussed previously, while Uber is using its balance sheet and cash flow to seed its platform with AVs, the company is clear that the objective is to remain asset-light longer-term. Whether and how soon Uber can dial back the capex remains to be seen.</p><p><em>Buybacks</em></p><p>Uber&#8217;s buyback activity has coincided with a material ramp in its adj EBITDA generation, which has gone from ~breakeven in 2022 to almost $9bn in 2025. Uber authorized its first share repurchase program of $7bn in Feb-24 and then a second $20bn program in Aug-25. </p><p>The company first began buying back shares in Q2&#8217;24, and ramped buyback activity significantly in 2025. With Uber&#8217;s share price falling ~25% over the course of Q4&#8217;25/Q1&#8217;26, Uber ratcheted up repurchases further in Q1&#8217;26 (to the tune of $3.0bn in the quarter).</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!dKXJ!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb9cfcb42-57b1-4b27-afef-d44f945171bd_2728x1558.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!dKXJ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb9cfcb42-57b1-4b27-afef-d44f945171bd_2728x1558.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!dKXJ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb9cfcb42-57b1-4b27-afef-d44f945171bd_2728x1558.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!dKXJ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb9cfcb42-57b1-4b27-afef-d44f945171bd_2728x1558.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!dKXJ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb9cfcb42-57b1-4b27-afef-d44f945171bd_2728x1558.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Management has laid out an expectation that Uber&#8217;s share count should fall for at least the next few years. Management has also stated that while they intend to buy back stock consistently every quarter, they will be opportunistic and ramp spend on buybacks when they see a &#8220;dislocation&#8221; in price. From Q2&#8217;25 earnings:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;Maybe a couple of points on the buyback to help folks understand how we think about it. As this business has inflected, and we have started to generate meaningful cash flow, returning that cash to our shareholders is a key priority for us. We&#8217;ve already executed over 60% of our authorization from last spring, when it was originally authorized.</em></p><p><em>So today&#8217;s $20 billion is in addition to the roughly $3 billion that is yet to be executed. So I know that sometimes folks get confused on that. So think of it as $23 billion to execute over the next couple of periods here. That represents about 12% of our market cap and really is a reflection of how great we feel about the cash flow generation that&#8217;s in front of us. <strong>So if you look at our history now, we&#8217;ve been allocating around 50% of our free cash flow to buybacks.</strong></em></p><p><em><strong>I think that&#8217;s a fair sort of way for you to think about how we will execute the capital return over the coming years.</strong> That gives us also a good sort of way to benchmark how we want to design our programs every quarter. So you should expect this to be sort of a multiyear plan. We will be active every quarter. <strong>But of course, we always reserve the opportunity that if there is a meaningful dislocation, we&#8217;re going to get very opportunistic in the market.</strong></em></p><p><em>And just a reminder that we made a commitment last year in our Investor Day that we were going to turn the curve and start reducing our share count. <strong>And now in the second quarter, we&#8217;ve actually taken share count down 1%, and you&#8217;ll see that trend continue for the next couple of years</strong>.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>Q1&#8217;26, I think it&#8217;s fair to say, was one such &#8220;dislocated&#8221; period in management&#8217;s view.</p><p><em>Leverage</em></p><p>The company introduced a 2x EBITDA gross leverage target at its 2024 investor day and a strong desire to remain &#8220;investment grade&#8221; (i.e. rated BBB or higher; Uber debt is rated BBB currently).</p><p>Post Delivery Hero acquisition, Uber will have ~$26bn of debt ($10.5bn as of Mar-26 + $16bn new bridge facility) vs. an expected &#8216;27 EBITDA of ~$16bn. This equates to ~1.6x of gross leverage. </p><p>However, if we take into account Uber&#8217;s ~$4bn of cash (~$6bn as of Mar-26 less ~$2bn to help fund DH), and we take into account Uber&#8217;s ~$8bn of investments (of which $2.6bn, $2.5bn and $2.1bn are in Didi, Grab and Aurora, respectively), Uber&#8217;s net leverage will be ~0.9x. The investments, of course, aren&#8217;t as liquid as cash. But Didi, Grab and Aurora are all publicly listed.</p><p>In all, Uber is positioned conservatively in terms of financial leverage. However, any leverage at all for a company in a rapidly changing industry like Uber&#8217;s (and where competitors include the likes of Google, Amazon and Tesla) makes me a little nervous. My hope would be that Uber prioritizes debt repayment over the next couple years.</p><p><em>M&amp;A</em></p><p>Dara has expressed a strong preference for organic growth vs. inorganic growth.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-68" href="#footnote-68" target="_self">68</a> I can appreciate the sentiment, especially coming from an ex-banker and &#8220;deal guy.&#8221; From a Mar-26 <em>Semafor</em> podcast: </p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;<strong>I think the best M&amp;A strategy is not to have to buy anything.</strong> Deals are hard. The majority of deals fail. So my job, number one, is to build out a path for organic growth. And we&#8217;ve grown over 20% for I think four or five years now. That continues for the next 3 to 5 years where I can actively plan for&#8230;<strong>My job is to set that reality so that any M&amp;A that we do is essentially optional.</strong> And on top of that we tend to look at M&amp;A in areas that are adjacent to us. M&amp;A doing the same thing that we do, expanding into different countries for example. We bought one of the leading food delivery players in Turkey, which has been an enormous success. So M&amp;A will always be a complimentary strategy, but my main job is to make sure I never need to buy anything and the business keeps growing at very, very healthy rates.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>Below are Uber&#8217;s most notable acquisitions and divestitures. </p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!peXh!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F32d007f1-7c7c-41fb-b67e-9da6b36cabc4_4000x1520.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!peXh!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F32d007f1-7c7c-41fb-b67e-9da6b36cabc4_4000x1520.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!peXh!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F32d007f1-7c7c-41fb-b67e-9da6b36cabc4_4000x1520.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!peXh!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F32d007f1-7c7c-41fb-b67e-9da6b36cabc4_4000x1520.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!peXh!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F32d007f1-7c7c-41fb-b67e-9da6b36cabc4_4000x1520.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!peXh!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F32d007f1-7c7c-41fb-b67e-9da6b36cabc4_4000x1520.png" width="1456" height="553" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/32d007f1-7c7c-41fb-b67e-9da6b36cabc4_4000x1520.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:553,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:766804,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/189172282?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F32d007f1-7c7c-41fb-b67e-9da6b36cabc4_4000x1520.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!peXh!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F32d007f1-7c7c-41fb-b67e-9da6b36cabc4_4000x1520.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!peXh!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F32d007f1-7c7c-41fb-b67e-9da6b36cabc4_4000x1520.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!peXh!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F32d007f1-7c7c-41fb-b67e-9da6b36cabc4_4000x1520.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!peXh!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F32d007f1-7c7c-41fb-b67e-9da6b36cabc4_4000x1520.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" 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y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Most of them seem defensible, though it&#8217;s hard to know for sure without seeing the underlying numbers. </p><p>As discussed previously, I like the Delivery Hero acquisition for Uber. The deal (1) adds significant scale to Uber (22% increase in bookings), (2) was done at a reasonable multiple (~8x &#8216;27 EBITDA), (3) adds leading markets (38 of the 50 markets added are in #1 market positions) including crown jewel assets Baemin, talabat and Hungerstation, (4) shifts more profits to delivery, (5) shifts more profits overseas and (6) almost doubles Uber&#8217;s number of multi-product markets.</p><p>The recent food delivery acquisitions in Turkey seem smart (Uber paid ~$1.2bn combined for Trendyol GO and Getir&#8217;s food delivery business). I believe this gives Uber the leading delivery position in the market, and allows Uber to pair its leading mobility business in the country with a leading delivery business (a very important structural advantage, as discussed). Turkey was Uber&#8217;s 3rd largest untapped delivery market (out of the countries in which it operates a mobility business), behind Brazil and India.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-69" href="#footnote-69" target="_self">69</a> This seems like it will pretty clearly go well (so long as Turkey remains a hospitable country in which to do business). In fact, Dara commented at a Sep-25 Goldman conference that the Trendyol Go acquisition &#8220;so far has been an absolute terrific success.&#8221;</p><p>Acquiring the Foodpanda business in Taiwan would have given Uber effectively a monopoly position in food delivery in the country (the market was split ~50/50 between Uber and Foodpanda), so that logic is also easy to follow. Perhaps predictably it was blocked by regulators, however, and Uber had to pay out a $242m break up fee.</p><p>Uber spent over $7bn for an assortment of delivery businesses (Postmates, Cornershop, Drizly) in the 2019-2021 period that were likely overpays, but did help Uber jumpstart its delivery business (in the US, in grocery delivery, in alcohol delivery, and in Latam) at a critical juncture.</p><p>The $3.1bn Careem acquisition also may have been an overpay, but it cemented Uber as the clear leader in mobility in the Middle East. Uber, however, failed to translate this mobility dominance into delivery dominance. Delivery Hero&#8217;s talabat and HungerStation led in delivery in the Middle East by a significant margin prior to being acquired by Uber. </p><p>Uber&#8217;s most recent deals for Blacklane (a high-end chauffeur service) and Spot Hero (a parking app) seem like good strategic fits. Uber can likely leverage Spot Hero&#8217;s parking inventory as part of its self-driving offering (places to idle cars when not in use). Uber also plans to bundle discounts on Spot Hero inventory within the Uber One offering, providing an additional benefit to members. </p><p>The most questionable acquisition was likely Transplace. Uber spent $2.25bn for it on the hopes that, combined with its freight brokerage business, Transplace would position Uber to be a force in the freight space. This hasn&#8217;t come to pass, with Uber Freight&#8217;s growth stalling the last few years. </p><p>The divestitures mostly all seem defensible. This effort began before Dara arrived in Aug-17. Uber&#8217;s first divestment was its China business, which it sold to DiDi in Aug-16 in exchange for a ~18% stake in DiDi. It later sold its Russia business to Yandex in Jul-17 in exchange for a 37% stake in Yandex.Taxi, a JV (which was later bought out completely by Yandex). After Dara arrived, Uber divested its SE Asia business, Uber Eats India, Uber Elevate and ATG. These divestments led to stakes in Grab Holdings (28%), Zomato (10%; a food delivery operator in India), Joby Aviation and Aurora (26%; self-driving truck tech), respectively. I believe Uber&#8217;s stake in DiDi has lost ~67% of its value ($8bn implied value at the time of the divestment vs. a carrying value of $2.6bn today). Uber&#8217;s stakes in Aurora and Grab are valued around the same levels today that they were when they were acquired. </p><p>The most questionable of the divestments is likely that of Uber&#8217;s Indian food delivery business. Uber sold it for an implied value of just $200m, from what I can tell. Dara has subsequently expressed regret that Uber doesn&#8217;t have a delivery business in India to pair with its mobility business in the country. Uber does seem on the <a href="https://youtu.be/NTeKvIjuyrE?t=661">verge</a> of announcing a closer partnership with one of the Indian delivery businesses (likely Zomato).</p><p>While many of Uber&#8217;s acquisitions have been tuck-ins and good strategic fits (where Uber is perhaps paying a market-ish multiple), Dara has also espoused the wisdom in the &#8220;overpay&#8221; for the truly great asset. Here is Dara from a Nov-25 <em>HD in HD</em> podcast, recounting how the best deals at IAC looked like &#8220;overpays&#8221; at the time, but made up for it (and then some) through many years of strong growth (e.g. Hotels.com, Match.com):</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;I do think one lesson that I&#8217;ve learned is&#8230;<strong>the best deals that Barry and I embarked on were deals where we actually overpaid, but recognized that this was a great asset that would have compounding growth for years and years and years.</strong> So coming to growth assets with a strict valuation framework of like you know how much is this asset worth now, often misses the point which is it&#8217;s not about how much asset could be worth now or next year. How is it going to compound over the next 10 years? </em></p><p><em>You could argue we overpaid for Match.com&#8230;There was an auction for Hotels.com. We were the top bidder. <strong>We were convinced that the compounding of offline travel to online travel, it was just very, very early.</strong> <strong>We were convinced that it was going to continue for 20 years. And that allowed us to &#8220;overpay.&#8221;</strong> </em></p><p><em>So I think over a period of time as we move from traditional assets that have kind of more traditional metrics, growth metrics to internet assets that can compound for a really, really long time, we learned our lesson that it&#8217;s not about identifying what&#8217;s cheap. It&#8217;s about identifying growth opportunity and compounding on top of compounding. It&#8217;s magic when that happens.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>Overall, it seems likely that management will be at least reasonably intelligent when it comes to M&amp;A. </p><p>High on Uber&#8217;s M&amp;A wish list are likely:</p><ul><li><p>Instacart. As discussed above, the company is a nice strategic fit in US grocery delivery</p></li><li><p>Zomato. Huge market opportunity in India delivery. Could pair with Uber&#8217;s mobility business, giving them a key strategic advantage in the country</p></li><li><p>Rappi. To consolidate share in Mexico delivery</p></li><li><p>Other rideshare &#8212; Bolt (Eastern/Central EU and Africa), Ola (India), Grab (SE Asia)</p></li><li><p>Expedia. Has been rumored in the past. Dara was CEO at Expedia for over a decade and is still on the board. This would be monumental, and would cement Uber as the all-things travel app (would add hotels, vrbo&#8217;s and flights). Expedia currently has a market cap of ~$30bn vs. Uber at ~$150bn.</p></li></ul><h4>Management &#8220;nuggets&#8221;</h4><ul><li><p>Level skipping<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-70" href="#footnote-70" target="_self">70</a></p></li><li><p>Bet on people<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-71" href="#footnote-71" target="_self">71</a></p></li></ul><div><hr></div><h2>Conclusion</h2><p>It seems unlikely that, in the post AV world, these markets don&#8217;t converge back to 2-3 players. </p><p>The rideshare/delivery platforms will still benefit from virtuous cycles. The network with the most riders, in theory, will have the best utilization. If you have the best utilization, you can offer the cheapest fares, thereby generating even more riders. Additionally, the network with the most riders, in theory, will have the most vehicles. If you have the most vehicles, you can offer the best ETAs, thereby also generating even more riders. </p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!hudd!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbe7a1a20-ec23-494a-84f5-c886af78cc18_2329x1711.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!hudd!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbe7a1a20-ec23-494a-84f5-c886af78cc18_2329x1711.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!hudd!, 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y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>These types of virtuous cycle industries tend to exhibit a winner-take-all dynamic. Thus, like in the pre AV world, I&#8217;d expect only ~2-3 &#8220;winners&#8221; per geo in the end.</p><p>It also seems unlikely that Uber isn&#8217;t one of these winners.</p><p>By the end of 2028, we could look up and Uber might have:</p><ul><li><p>~$16bn of EBIT </p></li><li><p>~100mm Uber One members</p></li><li><p>Line of sight to being the largest purveyor of autonomous rides in the world within the year, with a growing set of proprietary depots and charging infrastructure</p></li><li><p>Sizable volumes of hotel bookings (maybe even a &#8220;flights&#8221; product), cementing Uber as the go-to, all-things travel app</p></li></ul><p>Given all this, given Uber&#8217;s huge lead in rideshare/delivery, and given that most people won&#8217;t use more than 2 apps for either rideshare/delivery, are we really to believe that Uber is going to be somehow disrupted by &#8220;AV-natives?&#8221; </p><p>At this point, I don&#8217;t see it. </p><p>However, that&#8217;s not to say things couldn&#8217;t get choppy.</p><p>I think you have to believe Waymo is going to ramp the production of its vehicles by a lot. And you have to believe that Tesla will get to L4 (and subsequently also ramp production by a lot). Without even accounting for Zoox, this seems like a recipe for &#8220;price wars.&#8221; Waymo is backed by Google after all. And Tesla is foaming at the mouth to ramp Cybercab production and aggressively undercut Uber on pricing. Tesla has the manufacturing capacity to do so, and will likely be owned by SpaceX in the not-too-distant future.</p><p>While I think Uber has done a nice job playing its cards, AVs reopen the playing field. And unfortunately for Uber, some of the largest companies in the world are entering. Thus, even though I don&#8217;t believe Uber gets &#8220;disrupted,&#8221; I do think there&#8217;s a good chance Uber will need to defend market share through price concessions. Price concessions lead to margin pressure. </p><p>How bad of an impact this could have on Uber is still murky to me. I could see it perhaps being not so terrible because: (1) these AV natives still have a long way to go before actually impacting Uber&#8217;s financials, (2) a flooding of the market with AVs will actually lead to increased demand for rideshare (as is happening today in SF, etc.) which could offset pricing pressure, and (3) perhaps Uber&#8217;s not-so-demanding valuation today is doing the heavy lifting of pricing all of this in. </p><p>However, I could also easily envision pain as: (1) aggressive actors tend to ruin the party in these industries (commodity products; everyone knows the most market share wins and invests accordingly), (2) three of the largest, most aggressive companies in the world (Waymo, Tesla and Amazon) have entered the space (and aren&#8217;t exiting anytime soon), and (3) the number of AVs (and corresponding level of investment) needed to significantly impact the market is not outlandish.</p><p>In the end, though, if this all breaks right for Uber, we could be looking at the company as a dominant global transportation infrastructure business. It has the opportunity to be a &#8220;tollbooth&#8221; business, earning a cut of the transportation spend (mobility + delivery) of a large portion of the global population. If things break right, it will have huge scale, probably absurdly strong moats, likely attractive ROICs (even if it were forced to own many of its vehicles and infrastructure), and a very long runway for growth.  </p><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-1" href="#footnote-anchor-1" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">1</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>Interviewer: &#8220;Will you have safety drivers in the first year, or are you ready to go without a safety driver?&#8221;</p><p>Dave Ferguson (Nuro Co-Founder &amp; CEO): &#8220;So over the next year, year and a half, as we&#8217;re doing all the testing and development and final validation, for sure we&#8217;ll have safety drivers. The intent is to launch a commercial service by the end of 2026 that does not have safety drivers inside.&#8221; &#8212; <em>This Week in Startups</em> (Sep-25)</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-2" href="#footnote-anchor-2" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">2</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;One of the things that gives us a lot of confidence in the timeline that we talked about publicly for the Uber launch is the fact that the driverless deployment that we did late last year from an operational design domain perspective is pretty similar to what the city scale ODD would be to launch a robotaxi service. It&#8217;s basically all surface streets within a given city. Not highways yet. But no restrictions on maneuvers in terms of unprotected turns or railroad crossings and so on. You have night time driving. You have light rain, and so on. So again, from an ODD perspective, you don&#8217;t have to progress that much in terms of where the Nuro driver was when we did that launch late last year to where it needs to be late next year.&#8221; &#8212; <em>This Week in Startups</em> (Sep-25)</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-3" href="#footnote-anchor-3" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">3</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>Interviewer: &#8220;Are you expecting when you launch next year, is this something that people are only going to experience here in the city or are you looking at general Bay Area?&#8221;</p><p>Dave Ferguson: &#8220;It&#8217;s going to be general Bay Area.&#8221;</p><p>&#8212; <em>TechCrunch Disrupt</em> (Nov-25)</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-4" href="#footnote-anchor-4" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">4</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;I was in a car the other day&#8230;This guy drove for a car service company, but he also drove for Uber and for Lyft. And I was just asking him the differences, which one he thinks is best, which one he likes the best. He said Uber. And he said even though Lyft pays him more per ride, Uber is better. Not only because of the app, but more importantly, because when he gets somewhere and he needs to have a ride &#8212; he drops somebody off and he needs to have a return to take somebody back. There are always more people on the Uber app, and you can more quickly find and locate a [passenger]. And I just thought, okay, this is a company that&#8217;s going to pay you less &#8212; you still think they&#8217;re the best. It sounds like game over.&#8221; &#8212; Becky Quick, <a href="https://youtu.be/ufwYag7NcqY?t=233">Interview with Dara Khosrowshahi</a>, CNBC (Jul-26)</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-5" href="#footnote-anchor-5" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">5</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>DoorDash does have a partnership with Lyft, where DashPass members can receive 5-10% off Lyft rides, but its only up to 4 rides per month. </p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-6" href="#footnote-anchor-6" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">6</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;Now I would tell you that early on in the initial months when someone becomes a member, typically that is profit negative for us because the discounts that we offer the member exceed the increment in terms of how much they use the product and/or how well we retain them. Both of those go up. As the members mature, 6-plus months, then the members actually become profitable as well. <strong>So in the first 6 months, actually moving someone over to membership, especially moving someone who is already a high-frequency user is a net negative. We still make money on those members, but it&#8217;s a net negative in terms of margins and then it becomes a net positive as the power of the platform comes in, cross platform comes in and retention kicks in as well.</strong> So it&#8217;s just an example of kind of a near-term investments that we make to drive long-term engagement and long-term growth. And the math behind those investments in terms of the lifetime value versus the cost of a member acquisition continues to improve.&#8221; <em>&#8212;</em> <em>Q3&#8217;25 earnings</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-7" href="#footnote-anchor-7" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">7</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>A big driver of the falling prices has been the rapid decline in LiDAR costs. Around the time Waymo was conceived, the cost of a single LiDAR reportedly cost ~$75k. Today, you can pick one up for less than <a href="https://www.thedriverlessdigest.com/p/15-charts-that-explain-the-autonomous">$200</a>.</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-8" href="#footnote-anchor-8" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">8</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>LB: &#8220;Everybody buys a car for their extreme uses, not for their typical uses. So the size of the car, the size of the battery, all of that mass is is being designed for the extreme or occasional trip, not the everyday trip. I think autonomous driving and AI and connected cars will take us to a world where the vehicles can be tailored to the trip. </p><p>So, if I&#8217;m going from my home to my country club on roads that don&#8217;t exceed 40 miles an hour and it&#8217;s a 15 minute trip, doesn&#8217;t that make sense for me maybe to be in something that weighs 1,500 or 2,000 lbs rather than 4 to 5,000 lbs? Maybe something that has two seats rather than six seats? Maybe something that has a top speed of 50 miles an hour rather than 110 miles an hour? </p><p>So, I think we&#8217;re just getting started. Once people realize autonomous truly is real, and it is, they&#8217;re going to start really, really getting creative on the design opportunities for the systems that define how we live. And I get very, very excited about that future. I think it&#8217;s it&#8217;s going to be great.&#8221;</p><p>Interviewer: &#8220;I like the idea of they&#8217;re all designed for that that upper limit of extreme use. And the first thing I think of is &#8212; yeah, not every 747 needs to be Air Force One. Not every 747 needs to be ENP resistant with IR flares and bulletproof windows&#8230;They don&#8217;t need terabit uploads to NSA satellites to launch nuclear weapons. It would be nice, but you can also just go on a 747.&#8221;</p><p>LB: &#8220;There&#8217;s a great writer, Clayton Christensen. He wrote the book Innovator&#8217;s Dilemma&#8230;But he always argued that mature products get way over specified. They do way more things than what really is required for the fundamental value. And what happens in innovation is someone comes along underneath that and creates a new specification that&#8217;s much simpler, much lower cost, but still creates value and it disrupts the mature industry. And so today when you look at your typical car, it really really is overdesigned in so many ways.&#8221; &#8212; Lawrence Burns (author of <em>Autonomy: The Quest to Build the Driverless Car)</em>, <em>Tommy&#8217;s Podcast</em> (Nov-25)</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-9" href="#footnote-anchor-9" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">9</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>We will likely also see premium offerings &#8212; for working comfortably while commuting, or watching a show and relaxing on a longer ride, etc.</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-10" href="#footnote-anchor-10" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">10</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>DK: &#8220;So one example and it&#8217;s a little involved but customer service is another area that we use AI for. We have hundreds of millions of customer service interactions whether if you get your delivery late, etc. And we&#8217;ve automated some of that stuff. But when it gets to an agent, you know, if you break down what an agent does. The agent first of all has to understand, you know, Kara called, is she a good customer or is she a fraudster? We have a lot of fraudsters. You&#8217;re a great customer. Terrific. She said that her delivery was 30 minutes late. That&#8217;s your claim. The agent then goes [and looks at] our own fact base and you know there was an order placed. There was a courier who delivered it. There was a restaurant who prepared it, said it&#8217;s ready. Was it really 30 minutes late or not? Okay, it was 30 minutes late. Kara&#8217;s a great customer. Based on that, what&#8217;s our policy? &#8216;Hey, you get your money back because you are one of our best customers.&#8217; And then last is how do we communicate that to you? </p><p>Each of those elements, what kind of customer are you? What was the claim? Translate the claim into something that can be solved by logic. Compare that claim with a reality on the ground. Based on that reality on the ground and the claim, what is the policy that we have and then how do I communicate that to my customer? All of that can be powered by AI. And essentially we are &#8212; and we will take a foundation model or a cheap Chinese open source model &#8212; and we will use those models to build all these solutions. </p><p>And initially what we&#8217;re doing is for example using that to empower the agent. So the agent instead of doing all this work themselves, the AI agent goes and does all the work, right? And comes and says, &#8216;Kara&#8217;s a good customer. This is what she claims...&#8217; Well, here&#8217;s the thing, and this is where it gets hard. We thought this was going to be great, right? 5% of the time, give or take, the AI makes a mistake because they do hallucinate sometimes. And if they can&#8217;t find the data they&#8217;ll make something up. So now what we have is the agents are reading the AI recommendation &#8212; they don&#8217;t trust the AI recommendation... So as opposed to saving time, the agents [are doing] double the work and it was not a net benefit. </p><p>So that&#8217;s an example of our trying it. It not working. Now we are now going to more of a pure AI solution which is actually having AI solve the problem.&#8221;</p><p>Interviewer: &#8220;So they made mistakes before. So you give them the whole thing?&#8221;</p><p>DK: &#8220;It&#8217;s actually interesting&#8230; So we are having them solve problems where the cost of a mistake isn&#8217;t very high. And then we will learn from that and then eventually it will get good&#8230;.A pure tech company can do what we&#8217;re doing, which is like we&#8217;re putting in the work, figuring it out, iterate, iterate, iterate. A traditional company is not going to go through that because it is a journey. This has taken over a year and they don&#8217;t know what to do about it. It&#8217;s just very hard to actually translate this stuff into the real world. </p><p>And what&#8217;s funny is the latest [strategy] that we&#8217;ve had is if you ask the AI to follow rules, sometimes it makes mistakes. We&#8217;re now kind of freeing the AI. And we&#8217;re like treat your customers well, you know, go check what&#8217;s going on. We give them very general guidance and that is turning out to have the best results, early on. So we actually throw away the rules and &#8212; you&#8217;re a smart person, use your common sense, here are some guidelines, here&#8217;s what I&#8217;m trying to do.&#8221; &#8212; <em>On with Kara Swisher</em> (Dec-25)</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-11" href="#footnote-anchor-11" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">11</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>DK: &#8220;The area where I would say it&#8217;s got the most impact is actually our developer productivity. So, 80, 90% of our developers &#8212; and you know they are by far the most expensive talent that we have in house &#8212; they are using AI developer tools like Cursor and many others. But it&#8217;s not just the developers coding. It&#8217;s checking the code, code documentation, &#8216;on call.&#8217; We have hundreds of engineers that are &#8216;on call.&#8217; And we operate in 70 countries, 15,000 cities. Something is going wrong somewhere all the time. So you need engineers to be on call all the time to fix the issues and essentially now we have AI agents that are on call. If there&#8217;s something wrong, previously the engineer had to spent hours and hours &#8212; you got these calls together, 20 engineers, &#8216;What&#8217;s going on?&#8217; [Now] these AI agents are constantly, essentially looking at all of our systems and then they come to our engineers with a hypothesis &#8212; something went down here, pricing error, here&#8217;s a hypothesis. And then the human can look over the shoulder of the of the AI agent.&#8221;</p><p>Interviewer: &#8220;Does that mean fewer people?&#8230;&#8221;</p><p>DK: &#8220;The good news for us is we&#8217;re growing really fast and so we&#8217;re growing top line 20, 21%. My attitude is if an engineer can be 20, 30% more productive, you could take one view which is well then I need 20, 30% less engineers. I just think they become superhumans. So I want more engineers. So we are actually hiring more engineers because every engineer got more valuable to me. Other companies may make a different decision and, to your point, most tech companies that I talk to right now are using the opportunity to essentially keep headcount flat. I can grow the company, but I don&#8217;t really need to grow headcount. So basically margins increase. You see the technology margins are out of this world and it&#8217;s because people can do more with the same number of people.&#8221; &#8212; <em>On with Kara Swisher</em> (Dec-25)</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-12" href="#footnote-anchor-12" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">12</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>Interviewer: There&#8217;s this recurring joke on Twitter &#8212; I don&#8217;t know if you&#8217;ve seen it &#8212; that over time, every tech company becomes an advertising company. Do you agree with that?</p><p>DK: &#8220;It certainly seems to be the way forward, and certainly [for] retailers, right? So I do think that if you look at overall trends, more and more of advertising money is going to that point of purchase. And the point of purchase at Uber and especially Uber Eats is very, very powerful. So, we had $1 billion goal. We&#8217;re going to beat it this year. Thanks to a really great job by the teams. And ads on the Uber app allows essentially restaurants to &#8216;meter&#8217; audience based on their needs. If they want more audience during certain times, they can turn on ads. The return on their ad spend is 7 to 8 times. So it&#8217;s a great return. It is perfectly trackable. They can turn it on or turn it off. It&#8217;s a great product that&#8217;s growing very, very quickly and we&#8217;re quite optimistic about it.</p><p>Morning Brew Daily, May-24</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-13" href="#footnote-anchor-13" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">13</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;Sometimes people say, &#8216;Oh, you&#8217;re the most profitable food-delivery business in the world. Are you not worried that, you know, someone can come and disrupt those margins?&#8217; But when you look at really how our margins are broken down, we have around 6.5% of GMV, which is our EBITDA margin, and we have almost, <strong>more than half of that actually is coming from advertising revenues, right? And that&#8217;s something that you can only have and build at scale.</strong></p><p>So when you reach a certain scale, you know, the partners in Europe who want to start to advertise in this kind of... our restaurant partners, our grocery partners, but also CPG companies that advertise on our platform, right? And that&#8217;s...and if you take that out, our margins become much, much smaller, right?</p><p><strong>Then we have a lot of investments that our partners do on our app in terms of marketing. So deals and discounts for the customers, right?</strong> And those deals and discounts are basically money that is not coming out from our marketing pocket. That&#8217;s coming from a restaurant pocket. As long as we provide them value, as long as for every dollar they put, they get more dollars back, that&#8217;s... that&#8217;s something they will want to do, to keep investing. <strong>And also that you get just with scale.</strong></p><p><strong>So if you take out these two components from our P&amp;L, you see that we operate a marketplace at a very, very, very tight margin, if not breakeven, right? And that&#8217;s very hard to disrupt.</strong>&#8221; &#8212; <em>Tomaso Rodriguez (talabat CEO) on MONEY MOVES by MONIIFY (Jul-25)</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-14" href="#footnote-anchor-14" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">14</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>DK: &#8220;The Rides business has most of the audience and generally we move more people from Rides to Eats. So it&#8217;s an almost free customer acquisition tool for Eats.&#8221;</p><p>Interviewer: &#8220;It&#8217;s your largest customer acquisition channel for Eats, right?&#8221;</p><p>DK: &#8220;<strong>Yeah we get more new customers from Rides than we do from Google, Meta, Instagram, all of these other channels combined&#8230;</strong>All of it sounds great but the fact is that whatever pixel that you put on the Rides app to promote Eats is taking something away from the Rides app. So there&#8217;s a bunch of experimentation that had to be done which is what are the right surfaces, what are the right messages, how do you target it, how often do you target it, etc. So there&#8217;s a there&#8217;s a bunch of machinery that you have to build to do this stuff successfully&#8230;</p><p>So to the question of why is it happening now, is one, it looks great on paper but then to build the machinery, to actually do it effectively takes time. And then if Eats has this new customer acquisition source &#8212; every year new customers for Eats account for less than 10 percent of the overall business because it&#8217;s a big repeat business. So in year one, hey is it nice? Yeah, it&#8217;s nice, but it doesn&#8217;t really show up to external investors. But then once, you know &#8212; [what&#8217;s] the saying, compounding is the eighth wonder of the world &#8212; what&#8217;s happening now is the compounding is happening, right? So we&#8217;ve had like three years of the machinery working. So one year may not be noticeable, two years may not be noticeable, but three, four years. What we&#8217;re doing is essentially our margins are growing faster than our competition because we have a bunch of proprietary traffic that&#8217;s coming over and then on the Rides side, there&#8217;s proprietary supply coming over from Eats &#8212; again, compounding.&#8221; &#8212; <em>Acquired</em> podcast (Jun-23)</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-15" href="#footnote-anchor-15" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">15</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;We&#8217;re the only platform out there that has both rides and eats and it&#8217;s global as well. And that allows us to more deeply embed with our customers. <strong>About 30% of our Eats&#8217; first trips come from riders, so to speak. We can cross promote from the Rides platform to the Eats platform. If you open up your Uber app now, you&#8217;ll see Eats being offered. You&#8217;ll see grocery being offered. If you&#8217;re looking to go to a restaurant for dinner, we&#8217;ll also offer that restaurant as delivery as a reminder that it&#8217;s available for delivery as well. So this cross platform promotion that we can do &#8212; no one else is doing it. It&#8217;s taken us years to perfect it.</strong>&#8221; &#8212; <em>TBPN</em> (Feb-26)</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-16" href="#footnote-anchor-16" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">16</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>Interviewer: &#8220;I think you said one in five of your customers are using both mobility and delivery.&#8221;</p><p>DK: &#8220;It&#8217;s closer to a third now. So it&#8217;s increasing steadily.&#8221;</p><p>Interviewer: &#8220;It&#8217;s moving in the right direction. What do you do to get that number higher and where do you want it to be in, say, three years?&#8221;</p><p>DK: &#8220;Well, listen, we want we want to get to 50%. And once we get to 50%, I want to go higher than that. And it&#8217;s about the little interactions every day. For example, when I got a ride to the office the other day, along the way I was offered a coffee from Philz to be ready for me along the way to the office. And so it&#8217;s those little interactions that are a value add to the consumers. Like, great of course I want my morning coffee and if it can be ready for me right on the way to work that&#8217;s awesome. </p><p>That is also a way to kind of get me to use Uber Eats, for example. If I didn&#8217;t use it now, it&#8217;s all the time, but it&#8217;s these little interactions powered by personalization. Understand the context of where you&#8217;re going, and there&#8217;s a coffee shop close by to give you that opportunity. It&#8217;s those experiences that we have to build more and more, which is one of the reasons now I&#8217;m going to work more with the tech teams because, you know, they&#8217;re the ones building these experiences.&#8221; &#8212; <em>Bloomberg Live</em> (Jun-25)</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-17" href="#footnote-anchor-17" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">17</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;We believe that all of these synergies serve the customer experience, enabling us to attract new platform users and to deepen engagement with existing platform users. Both of these dynamics grow our network scale and liquidity, which further increases the value of our platform-to-platform users. For example, Delivery attracts new consumers to our network&#8212;for the three months ended December 31, 2025, approximately 58% of first-time Delivery consumers were new to our platform. <strong>Additionally, for the three months ended December 31, 2025, consumers who used both Mobility and Delivery generated over three times the Gross Bookings as compared to consumers who used a single offering in countries where both Mobility and Delivery were offered.</strong> We believe that these trends will improve as we further leverage the power of our platform, especially as only approximately one in five eligible consumers are currently active monthly across both of our businesses.&#8221; &#8212; 2025 10-K</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-18" href="#footnote-anchor-18" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">18</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;Especially in the US, there&#8217;s more crossover between couriers who deliver food and then drivers who drive people. There&#8217;s a much larger crossover and <strong>we can actually use Eats almost as a recruitment tool. In that moment when someone says I am interested in earning money, you know, gig money, on-demand, etc. with all the flexibility, freedom, etc. The faster you can get that person earning money, the higher the conversion rate. And because of Eats, you don&#8217;t need to get your car inspected, you know, there&#8217;s a lot of steps, additional steps &#8212;background check, etc. that&#8217;s required for driving &#8212; those steps don&#8217;t necessarily need to be completed to deliver food.</strong> You can get people into the food ecosystem, they can start earning on the Uber platform and then you can upsell them into additional opportunities &#8212; driving people, shopping, etc. <strong>It&#8217;s a structural recruitment advantage we have in terms of building up supply.</strong> And as you build up the supply, the liquidity in the marketplace gets better &#8212; surge comes down, pricing gets better, ETAs get better, your ability price gets better and the demand shows up to some extent.&#8221; &#8212; <em>Acquired</em> podcast (Jun-23)</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-19" href="#footnote-anchor-19" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">19</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;The point &#8212; I think it&#8217;s been well made now by us now &#8212; is that even within the US and even just within US mobility, you&#8217;re talking about 70% of our GBs and 70, 75% of our profits [come from] outside those top 20 [cities]. </p><p>If I&#8217;m looking at Uber as a company, I would start by saying that&#8217;s true for US mobility, but then of course about half of the GBs of the company overall are delivery, which has sort of a different disruption risk profile from an autonomous perspective. I think it&#8217;s much more insulated from autonomous disruption. Autonomous drone delivery and autonomous bot delivery is a thing and will be a thing, but I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s disruptive at its core&#8230;</p><p>And then if you take even just our mobility business and slice it into countries where average fares can support autonomy in the next 5 years versus not, there&#8217;s a big piece of that business [that will not be] relevant to autonomous cars as they&#8217;re currently designed today for years, right? How long until you have autonomous vehicles disrupting $3 average fares in Brazil or $2 average fares in India? So big pieces of our mobility business outside the US I think are just not going to be relevant for autonomous vehicles for some amount of time. </p><p>So then you get into the US story and I think we do a good job of saying, &#8216;This is not a top 20 story.&#8217; This actually needs to be a nationwide story and <strong>it&#8217;s much harder for these deployments to get into those cities and then even once you&#8217;re in those cities or suburbs, how long until the economics actually work on a fixed fleet and the answer I think is going to be longer than people think.</strong> </p><p>So even though we&#8217;re very bullish on the technology, I think the specifics of how it gets deployed and how it rolls out are very different than how most people think about it in terms of software disruption. You can&#8217;t just push a button and have it. It&#8217;s not a social network that&#8217;s available to everyone as soon as you turn it on in a country. There are physical, real world challenges to deployment and it&#8217;ll take time.&#8221; &#8212; Andrew Macdonald (COO), <em>The Compound</em> podcast (Feb-26)</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-20" href="#footnote-anchor-20" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">20</a><div class="footnote-content"><p><br></p><div data-component-name="FragmentNodeToDOM"><p>MM: &#8220;Very few things in my life, other than family and friends, are set in stone. Grocery &#8212; being an e-commerce analyst and consumer Internet analyst in general is fun, because you get to learn about new things. If you look back a couple of years ago, it was the retail categories, furniture and things we all knew about, and I&#8217;ve been pulled into becoming a grocery analyst over the last four years.</p><p>The space has changed dramatically. We started, I believe at the end of 2022, putting a grocery basket together of what I&#8217;d call the consumables &#8212; the things you eat, shampoo, stuff you put on your body &#8212; and then light bulbs and things like that, in two separate buckets. We&#8217;ll call one just grocery. In grocery, for several years, Walmart was the runaway favorite, no one even close on pricing, Amazon was middle of the pack, decidedly average, right in the middle. And then when it came to the stuff like stocks and light bulbs, Walmart and Amazon were at price parity with one another, I think for obvious reasons.</p><p><strong>What we saw since we came on in November is Amazon has really rolled out their same-day grocery offering to over 2,000 cities in the US. The first thing we did &#8212; we&#8217;d done this basket pricing in six large suburban markets in the US for several years &#8212; was spin it up and see how Amazon compares now. And it went from middle of the pack to price parity with Walmart overnight, it was jaw-dropping.</strong>&#8221;</p><p>BT: &#8220;And this was even as their delivery speed increased, right?&#8221;</p><p>MM: &#8220;Yes. So we titled the note, &#8216;The Birth of a Grocery Business.&#8217; I had been skeptical and knocked down Amazon&#8217;s grocery business for a while, because it didn&#8217;t have a big enough SKU offering and the delivery time took long. <strong>So while we were all not paying attention &#8212; it&#8217;s not a secret anymore &#8212; Amazon put refrigerators in their whole fulfillment network, and they have a killer grocery product today. They&#8217;ve given some stats, something like, year-to-date last year, it grew 40x, it&#8217;s blowing the doors off.</strong> Now you have this world changing where it&#8217;s Walmart and Amazon competing for the core American grocery basket &#8212; ground beef, chicken, bell peppers, yogurt, milk &#8212; and that&#8217;s the real cost-sensitive area for the average American, and they&#8217;re both going right for the price point.&#8221; &#8212; Michael Morton (Analysis at MoffettNathanson), <em>Stratechery</em> (Jun-26)</p></div></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-21" href="#footnote-anchor-21" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">21</a><div class="footnote-content"><p> Balaji Krishnamurthy (CFO): &#8220;One additional thing I&#8217;d add there is, while you asked about the top market, it&#8217;s important to remember that <strong>70% of the U.S. is outside of the top markets and nearly 75% of our U.S. profits come from those markets. And that -- those numbers have been growing because those markets are growing faster than the top 20 cities. </strong>I think this is a very, very common misconception. We&#8217;ve heard many times that Uber&#8217;s profit pools are concentrated in the top cities, and it could not be further from the truth. <strong>And as you think about where AVs go in the near term, those non-top 20 markets are going to be unlikely to be addressed by AVs for a long time to come as well.</strong> So from our perspective, not only are we going to be well positioned in those markets to be the platform of choice for our AV partners. But for the remainder of the U.S., it is going to be played by traditional ridesharing operators such as Uber.&#8221;</p><p>Dara Khosrowshahi (CEO): &#8220;And also, just remind investors that <strong>60% of our mobility gross bookings are international outside of the U.S. as well.</strong> So we have a big business in the U.S. outside of the big cities, and we have an even bigger business outside of the U.S. as it relates to mobility.&#8221; &#8212; Q4&#8217;25 earnings</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-22" href="#footnote-anchor-22" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">22</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;An often-repeated myth is that the vast majority of U.S. trips and profits are concentrated in the top cities. In reality, the U.S. is a very large and diverse market. <strong>Trips happening within our top 20 cities represent only 30% of our U.S. Gross Bookings and just 25% of our profits.</strong> The truth is that the U.S. market comprises a long tail of thousands of cities, suburbs, towns, and rural areas with significant diversity in market characteristics and regulatory requirements. Over the last 15 years, we have sharpened and enhanced our ability to service these areas outside of our top 20 cities. The results speak for themselves: these areas are now growing faster and profit margins are already higher today. Said differently, even as AVs proliferate in dense urban areas over the next 5-10 years, we expect to serve a much wider and ever-expanding set of towns and suburbs, primarily with human drivers. Around 40% of our U.S. riders take trips outside of their home city, which means they expect us to be ever-present and able to get them on their way. Importantly, even within our top 20 cities, many&#8212;including New York City, Boston, and Chicago&#8212;do not have permissive regulatory frameworks, and policy reform is likely to take several more years, at minimum. New York City, the largest ridesharing market in the world, accounts for over 10% of our U.S. trips, and is also one of the most tightly regulated, with multiple key regulatory and licensing steps standing between testing today and full commercial service in the future.&#8221; &#8212; Q4&#8217;25 prepared remarks</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-23" href="#footnote-anchor-23" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">23</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>Interviewer: &#8220;That implies a rosy picture for drivers, right? They are only called upon when they can maybe maximize their earnings because there&#8217;s peak demand. But there&#8217;s got to be some misgivings. What are your drivers, what have you heard? Are they afraid of being replaced by these robot drivers?&#8221;</p><p>Sachin Kansal (CPO): &#8220;We definitely get a lot of questions as you may expect. The good news is that what we are seeing in Austin so far, in the last six to nine months of our deployment, drivers have actually made more money because the overall number trips in Austin has been twice &#8212; if you look at our year on year growth in a city like Austin &#8212; it&#8217;s almost twice our national average. <strong>So the overall demand level in Austin has gone up. The number of trips that drivers are getting have gone up and the earnings that the drivers are getting has gone up as well.</strong>&#8221; &#8212; <em>WSJ </em>podcast (Nov-25)</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-24" href="#footnote-anchor-24" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">24</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;In terms of how AVs are affecting the overall business, listen, it&#8217;s very, very early. The biggest scale operations that we&#8217;ve got are with Waymo in Austin and Atlanta. And what we are seeing is that those markets are growing faster than other U.S. markets. And this is in a Q3 where the U.S. actually accelerated nicely Q3 over Q2.</p><p>So the overall U.S. market is strong, but we&#8217;re finding that, for example, growth in Phoenix, Austin, Atlanta was more than twice the rest of the U.S. So that&#8217;s certainly good signal. What that has also led to is that driver earnings in those markets are super, super healthy as well.</p><p>So in Austin, for example, where we have the most AVs on the ground, driver earnings per hour actually outpace the rest of the U.S. So whether or not the growth in those markets is correlation or causal, it&#8217;s too soon to tell. But the markets certainly look healthy. Our partnership with Waymo continues to be excellent from an operational standpoint. Waymo utilization is still very, very high.</p><p>And what we&#8217;re seeing is an overall market that&#8217;s healthy as well, which is really good signal as we transition to this hybrid network of AVs and human drivers.&#8221; &#8212; Q3&#8217;25 earnings</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-25" href="#footnote-anchor-25" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">25</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>Alex Kendall (Co-Founder &amp; CEO, Wayve): &#8220;So for the last 10 years we&#8217;ve been promoting an approach, a &#8216;next generation&#8217; approach AV 2.0 that replaces that stack with one end-to-end neural network. Now, of course, that may seem more obvious today, but it has been contrarian for many, many years&#8230;Of course, anyone who&#8217;s worth a grain of salt [today] will use deep learning in various parts of the stack. But what you see in more incumbent solutions to autonomous driving is of course deep learning for perception and maybe for each different component but still a lot of hand interfaces, still a lot of infrastructure on high definition maps and perhaps reliance on a lot of hardware&#8230;&#8221;</p><p>Interviewer: &#8220;<strong>So Wayve is sensor inputs, motion output, gigantic neural net in the middle?&#8221;</strong></p><p>AK: &#8220;<strong>That&#8217;s right. At a very simple level&#8230;</strong>A year ago we were just driving in central London. Central London, I think, is a great proving ground because it&#8217;s this unstructured, incredibly complex and dynamic city that our AIs learned to navigate around very smoothly, safely, and reliably. But in the last year, we&#8217;ve taken it to highways, to Europe, Japan, North America. Our cars were in New York City last week... And so bringing it global, being able to take it to different manufacturers vehicles and show a product-like experience &#8212; this growth I think really opened up a lot of inspiration around the world.&#8221;</p><p>Interviewer: &#8220;Why is it that you&#8217;re able to launch in hundreds of cities worldwide and, you know, some of the AV1.0 companies need to actually go out and build an HD map? Just say a word on how the technical differences are actually leading to differences in how the machine&#8217;s able to learn and how you&#8217;re able to roll out.&#8221;</p><p>AK: &#8220;Autonomous driving is is all about generalization. Generalization means being able to reason about or understand something you&#8217;ve never seen before. Every time you go for a drive, you&#8217;re going to see something new for the first time. What did we see today? We saw a road worker rolling out some carpet thing in front of the road, but on a pedestrian crossing, but not wanting to step out. And we had to reason about could we pass them without without yielding, for example. There&#8217;s just a example from earlier today, but you could think about all the new things you see on the roads every time you drive. You&#8217;re never going to see every experience in your training data. So that means that you have to be able to reason and generalize to things you haven&#8217;t seen before to be safe, to be useful around the world. And that&#8217;s what has motivated our our entire approach. So whether it&#8217;s a manufacturer giving us one of their vehicles and within a couple of months us being able to to drive it on the road. A couple of weeks ago in September this year, we unveiled a vehicle to media with Nissan in Tokyo. Just four months earlier was the first time we&#8217;d even driven in Tokyo and got hands on this vehicle. 4 months later, we were having media drive in the car, experience it, and that was a new country and a new vehicle for us.&#8221; &#8212; <em>Training Data</em> (Nov-25)</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-26" href="#footnote-anchor-26" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">26</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>Interviewer: &#8220;It is. I mean -- so let&#8217;s -- some investors who may be a little more skeptical of Uber&#8217;s competitive positioning within AV and autonomous will say we&#8217;re going from a world where we have a marketplace of millions of drivers to a future world where you may have 2 or 3 main players that sort of either operate the software or sort of are the main network running AVs in the United States. Therefore, there&#8217;s a risk that either, a, Uber could be disrupted or, b, the unit economics, 2 or 3 partners as opposed to millions, are going to be inferior. What is sort of your counterargument to that? And how do you think about the key execution points to ensure that, that doesn&#8217;t happen?&#8221;</p><p>DK: &#8220;Yes. So I think that, first of all, like many of these technologies, and you look, for example, at GenAI and large language models, et cetera, you are seeing a real fragmentation of those markets, right? There are bigger players, but there are lots of smaller players coming in. And one of the factors that we&#8217;re seeing as it relates to AV is there&#8217;s a second generation of companies coming in. First of all, there are some first-generation companies that are augmenting how they have built AV technology.</p><p>The heuristic technology, they&#8217;re augmenting it with AV and getting terrific results there. <strong>But there&#8217;s also a generation of companies that are starting kind of from scratch single end-to-end models, larger models that are showing incredible promise in terms of time to market, fraction of time to market that some of the -- that frankly, I expected 5 years ago at a fraction of capital cost as well.</strong> So every piece of evidence that we see is that, whereas 5 years ago, I might have said probably 2 or 3 players, maybe 2, 3, 4 players, the cost is getting cheaper as this business scales. And so I think that the trend is one where you&#8217;re going to have many smaller players out there. You&#8217;re going to have big players, medium players, smaller players.</p><p>You&#8217;re seeing the same thing happen in the GenAI environment as well. There are the DeepSeeks of the world as well. And whereas 5 years ago, if you gather data in the real world while you feed it to train the models, now you&#8217;re gathering data. You&#8217;re using that data to feed the sims, and those sims are actually creating thousands of scenarios based on that single piece of data and then training the models as well. So every piece of evidence that we see is that there are going to be multiple players, and if I look purely kind of those 5 elements of commercialization, we have a huge part to play in all 5.&#8221; &#8212; Morgan Stanley conference (Mar-25)</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-27" href="#footnote-anchor-27" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">27</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;I mentioned my daughters are in a food influencer business that they created and each week they send out recipes. And they sent out a recipe one week calling for tandoori seasoning and my wife and I didn&#8217;t have it. We wanted to make it the next day. So, there&#8217;s a market about three miles from my house where ordinarily I would have jumped in the car, driven to the market, looked for the seasoning, bought it, and came home. <strong>That probably would have been a 30 minute experience. Parking the car, walking in, finding it, buying it, coming home. And it would have cost me six miles out of pocket cost. That&#8217;s about five bucks. And my time. </strong></p><p><strong>I go to Amazon and I find the Tandoori seasoning for $4.80 and it&#8217;s on my porch in 16 hours. There&#8217;s no amount of speed increase between my home and that market that could save me as much time as I saved by spending five minutes on the internet to find the tandoori seasoning.</strong> Now, someone might say, &#8216;How can you justify a 3 ounce bottle of spice delivered on your porch by a 200lb driver in a 7,000lb vehicle?&#8217; Well, he&#8217;s also dropping off [something for my] neighbor and that neighbor and that neighbor. That&#8217;s economies of scale. <strong>It&#8217;s almost like that&#8217;s the new form of public transit &#8212; the Amazon delivery person &#8212; because all those trips were eliminated.</strong> All the trips that people would have made that the e-commerce people are making for us have been eliminated.&#8221; &#8212; Lawrence Burns (author of <em>Autonomy: The Quest to Build the Driverless Car)</em>, <em>Tommy&#8217;s Podcast</em> (Nov-25)</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-28" href="#footnote-anchor-28" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">28</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;Yes, Justin, in terms of the consumer downturn scenario on mobility, we see these circumstances in a number of markets. LatAm has been through a bunch of cyclical trends, et cetera. And usually, a downturn -- kind of the leading indicator of a downturn is a weak job market.</p><p>We might be seeing it. In some of the Western markets, we might not, it&#8217;s very difficult to tell. But when there&#8217;s a weaker job market, typically, our driver supply on the mobility side significantly improves. We&#8217;re a very, very flexible work platform, average earnings per utilized hour for drivers in the U.S., for example, is $33 per utilized hour. So it&#8217;s highly  flexible, and the earnings per utilized hour are strong.</p><p><strong>So typically, what we see is improvement in driver supply. As driver supply improves, surge comes down, ETAs improve, the service itself becomes more compelling. And as a result, volumes typically turn out to be quite sticky.</strong> In addition to those trends, we are actively investing in affordability, right? The membership program essentially brings prices down for both mobility and delivery.</p><p>And we&#8217;re investing in products such as 2-wheelers and 3-wheelers and UberX Share, all of whom provide discounts of, let&#8217;s say, 25% to 50% of, let&#8217;s say, the price of an UberX as well.</p><p>So we think that we can thrive in upturns and downturns. And I think that the team has proven that they&#8217;ve kind of execution capability to be able to perform in any kind of a market. And listen, we&#8217;re watching trends very, very quickly, and I do believe we&#8217;ll be able to adjust as needed.&#8221; &#8212; Q2&#8217;24</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-29" href="#footnote-anchor-29" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">29</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;Yes. I mean you have to manage different in a potentially tougher environment. But I think there are multiple angles as it relates to the resiliency that you see in our business. First, I would say that the categories that we&#8217;re in, food, transportation, grocery, historically, if you look at historical cycles, the spend levels in those categories during down cycles tends to be much less variable than other categories.</p><p>So if you&#8217;re not doing well or you&#8217;re going through a recession, you may put off the European trip, you may put off the home improvement, but you&#8217;re still going to treat yourself to that nice Friday night, take the folks out for dinner or order a nice Uber Eats dinner. So one is like either we got lucky or good, you can debate, but we&#8217;re in a bunch of really good categories. Second for us as it relates to geographic is we have incredible geographic diversity. We operate in 70 countries. Over 50% of our bookings come outside of the U.S. We&#8217;re not really subject to tariffs because we&#8217;re the ultimate local business. The money that comes from a Boston consumer goes to a Boston restaurant or the vast majority goes to a Boston driver. So we&#8217;re not really subject to all the tariff talk going on. Obviously, we hope for the best. So that&#8217;s kind of another differentiator for us.</p><p>Third for us is that our business model and our expenses are about 75% variable. [on a gross bookings basis, I assume] This is a very, very low fixed cost business. And I think coming out of COVID, for example, which was the biggest shock to the system, I think a quarter after the kind of peak of COVID, our Mobility business was profitable. I think that&#8217;s something that no one would have protected. And then last and certainly not least is that our revenue and our costs tend to be correlated in economic cycles.</p><p>So you can imagine in a weak economy, to the extent that consumer spend gets weaker, employment gets weaker as well, which would mean that the cost of our sourcing drivers, couriers would generally come down. So in stronger markets, both of them kind of shift up and down. In weaker markets, they also shift up and down.</p><p>So you look at the -- you look at these categories, the categories that we operate in, our geographic diversification not being subject to tariffs, our variable cost structure and the fact that our revenue and costs are correlated makes for a pretty good combination. And I think the team at Uber has gone through a lot. People said we could never be profitable. I think we&#8217;ve disproven that and then some. We&#8217;ve gone through COVID and navigated really, really well.</p><p>So I think when and if there is a significant economic cycle, I&#8217;m confident that the team can execute around that.&#8221; &#8212; JPMorgan conference (May-25)</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-30" href="#footnote-anchor-30" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">30</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>Interviewer: &#8220;I was reading through the most recent earnings and you have a chart where, on average, over the last five years or so, drivers make more money per hour. If we entered some economic environment where a whole bunch of people were out of work and they wanted to become Uber drivers, but that would make it so that the average earnings across the whole platform would plunge because you have a ton of new drivers coming on, would you guys sort of gate it and be like, hey, we want to make sure that we don&#8217;t, sort of, flood the supply side of the marketplace?&#8221;</p><p>DK: &#8220;No, because one of our core philosophies is this is an open platform and if your background check comes in okay, etc., then you can have access to earnings opportunities. That&#8217;s a core belief for us. The economics take care of themselves. When you look at mid cycle, long cycle, if earnings come down on the platform then it becomes a less attractive platform to drivers and they will do something else. <strong>There is this counter cyclicality about our marketplace which is during really good times it becomes harder for us to recruit drivers. So the cost of supply goes up. So while revenue and gross bookings are growing and unit volumes are strong, our supply base becomes more expensive. During softer economic times, you get more drivers coming into the platform, ETAs comes down, prices come down, the price becomes cheaper, so actually our unit volumes accelerate.</strong> So if you look at our Q1 unit volumes, they grew 24% versus 19% in Q4. So we accelerated trip growth, which is not something that you see at our scale.&#8221;</p><p>Interviewer: &#8220;Right, so it&#8217;s sort of the &#8216;Invisible Hand&#8217; of the market theory that sort of self-regulates this for you&#8221;</p><p>DK: &#8220;<strong>Yeah it&#8217;s not a theory, it happens</strong>.&#8221; &#8212; <em>Acquired</em> podcast (Jun-23)</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-31" href="#footnote-anchor-31" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">31</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;We define Gross Bookings as the total dollar value, including any applicable taxes, tolls, and fees, of: Mobility rides, Delivery orders (in each case without any adjustment for consumer discounts and refunds, Driver and Merchant earnings, and Driver incentives) and Freight revenue. <strong>Gross Bookings do not include tips earned by Drivers.</strong> Gross Bookings are an indication of the scale of our current platform, which ultimately impacts revenue.&#8221; &#8212; Uber 2025 10-K</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-32" href="#footnote-anchor-32" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">32</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;We define Marketplace GOV as the total dollar value of orders completed on our Marketplaces, <strong>including</strong> taxes, <strong>tips</strong>, and any applicable consumer fees, including membership fees related to DashPass, Wolt+, and Deliveroo Plus. Marketplace GOV does not include the dollar value of orders, taxes and tips, or fees charged to merchants for orders fulfilled through our Commerce Platform.&#8221; &#8212; DoorDash 2025 10-K</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-33" href="#footnote-anchor-33" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">33</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;One of the confusing circumstances as it relates to mobility when you look at the numbers, is that we are changing accounting methods in some countries where we essentially were the merchant of record. When we&#8217;re the merchant of record, essentially, we recognize bookings as revenue&#8230;It&#8217;s partially responsible for some of our revenue margin take rate increases on a year-on-year basis. And we recognize courier costs as operating costs. So the majority of the operating cost increase that you see is actually because of our recognition of courier costs as costs instead of contra revenue. If you normalize for all that on a year-on-year basis, with bookings up about 90%, operating costs are up about 65%, which is 200-plus basis points of margin improvement.&#8221; &#8212; UBS conference (Dec-21)</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-34" href="#footnote-anchor-34" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">34</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;UK business model change: Beginning in January 2026, following a UK tax law ruling, we transitioned from a merchant model to an agency model outside of London. As a result of this shift, driver payments will be reclassified from cost of revenue to contra-revenue, which will reduce reported revenue and revenue margin. There is no change to our merchant business model in London. We expect Q1 2026 and full-year 2026 Mobility revenue margin to be approximately 350 basis points lower, driven solely by this accounting reclassification. As a reminder, there is no impact on profitability from this change.&#8221; &#8212; Q4&#8217;25 prepared remarks</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-35" href="#footnote-anchor-35" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">35</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;So our user growth and frequency continue to grow at very healthy levels. We&#8217;ve got over 150 million users growing double digits, frequency growing 6% on a year-on-year basis. And we think that&#8217;s going to continue, from a couple of factors. </p><p>One is that generally our supply base is getting stronger. We&#8217;ve got 7.4 million now earners on the platform, growing 22% on a year-on-year basis. The quality of the service in terms of ETAs, in terms of delivery times and in terms of error rates, in terms of reliability, continue to improve. And as they continue to improve, the kind of underlying product gets better as the supply base improves, which is a tailwind as it relates to audience. </p><p>And then with audience, we&#8217;re expanding kind of the TAM, as I told you about, one, in terms of new product offerings, the 2-wheelers, 3-wheelers. Reserve, for example, is bringing many new customers, especially in the suburbs, who might not have used Uber, let&#8217;s say, for that ride to the airport. So that&#8217;s, for example, a new audience base. </p><p>And at the same time, we continue to expand our audience outside of the core markets in which we operate. There are a number of markets that we invested in, again, 4 to 5 years ago. Japan, South Korea, Germany, Turkey and Argentina. These are markets that we had not entered previously, because of regulatory issues. We adjusted our business so that we could enter those markets. And those markets tend to be at probably 20% to 25% of the penetration of our mature markets, and they are entirely new audiences that we go after. So audience for us is kind of -- naturally, the product has its own tailwinds as the product improves, a bunch of new products that we&#8217;re building and then a bunch of new geographies that we&#8217;re penetrating into. That&#8217;s really the audience equation for us.</p><p>Then it&#8217;s about frequency. Frequency is where we talked about service, but then membership is a very big frequency driver for us. About -- over 50% of our Delivery gross bookings come from members now. About 1/3 of our overall gross bookings come from members. Membership growth continues to grow at very, very high levels, and members spend 3.4x more than nonmembers. And then on top of that, we have multiproduct usage, and multiproduct usage continues to grow very quickly as well and multiproduct users spend over 3x more than single product users. So service level, membership, and multiproduct are the drivers for us of frequency. And again, we don&#8217;t see any reason why those aren&#8217;t going to continue. </p><p>Price, for us, we essentially want to keep price flat if we can. And price will be a mix of, typically, will grow faster outside of the U.S. than inside of the U.S. So kind of geographic mix will be holding price down for us, and we just -- we think that as a company, we should take price as sparingly as possible. </p><p>The other angle to all this is base business versus, let&#8217;s say, growth businesses. And our base businesses, if you look at our traditional mobility business, the UberX business or traditional online food delivery business in Uber Eats, those businesses are growing at, call it, low to mid-teens. And then on top of that, you layer the growth bets that we have is $20 billion of gross bookings that are growing at almost 70%. That part of the business is going to get bigger, and so you have kind of a higher growth part of the business becoming a higher penetration into the overall bookings mix, which again gives us relative comfort that the top line -- we&#8217;re going to be able to grow at very, very attractive top line percentages compared to other technology companies of similar size and scale.&#8221; &#8212; Goldman conference (Sep-24)</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-36" href="#footnote-anchor-36" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">36</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;So maybe start with a reminder that back in February, we set a 3-year CAGR framework where we said the -- our view was that the top line or gross bookings would grow in the mid- to high teens, and then we would drive leverage off of that for EBITDA to grow in the high 30s to 40%. So you look back at this last quarter, third quarter, we grew 21% at gross bookings level. We&#8217;re at a $50 billion run rate now. So the business really is humming along.</p><p><strong>And when we look at sort of what&#8217;s behind that strong growth, it&#8217;s really the -- what&#8217;s sort of reassuring to me is that it is very broad-based. It is across multiple products, it&#8217;s across multiple geographies. Probably, the most challenging question I get from investors is what&#8217;s driving the growth. And it&#8217;s an unsatisfying answer when you say everything, but it really is a reflection of just how diversified and strong we are experiencing right now.</strong> </p><p>If we look at sort of particularly where have we been making some investments that are really helping to support that and why we feel good about sort of the position we&#8217;re in, I think we like the investments that we continue to make on quality. So the consumer experience is really driven by things like liquidity, selection, defect rates, et cetera. We&#8217;ve had I think growth in couriers and earners -- in general, couriers and drivers, 21% growth in the number that have come on the platform. Number of merchants that have come on the platform is up 12% year-over-year for Q3. So that continues to make the supply and choices available to consumers better, which improves sort of the quality of the experience they get. </p><p>Another area that has been very relevant for us in 2025 certainly has been focusing on use cases. So we&#8217;ve got some really good use cases such as the New York shuttle, the investments we&#8217;re making in grocery and delivery, and those are continuing to feed the growth. What else can I say? The focus on less dense markets, I think, has also been one that we&#8217;re very happy with. Instead of focusing purely on the metro cities, we&#8217;ve been expanding to look at suburbs and sparser markets. And those are growing 1.5 to 3x as fast as cities. So overall, I think we&#8217;re feeling this has just been a great -- it&#8217;s been a great year for us, and we feel the momentum is going to continue.&#8221; &#8212; UBS conference (Dec-25)</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-37" href="#footnote-anchor-37" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">37</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>DK: &#8220;So we have been very, very happy in terms of our user growth. And in terms of the strategy behind the user growth, I&#8217;d laid out in terms of there&#8217;s products, there&#8217;s use cases, there&#8217;s demographics and then there&#8217;s geographies. And we are introducing products along each of those different segments. </p><p>If you look at the products, for example, our Moto product, it&#8217;s a 2-wheeler product. It is much more -- it&#8217;s a lot cheaper and more affordable, that is bringing on significant new segments to our audience. And then we&#8217;re seeing on occasions, those Moto users, if it&#8217;s raining, if they&#8217;re on a date at night, they will upgrade to an UberX or other use cases. So just introducing newer products is one area where we get new consumers. And then there&#8217;s new use cases. A new use case might be Reserve where we thought that Reserve was actually going to serve people who wanted higher reliability.</p><p>But it&#8217;s also -- there&#8217;s a whole customer base, much of them in the suburbs outside of the big cities that didn&#8217;t find previously Uber reliability high enough for an airport trip, for a time-sensitive trip. Now they do because we offer the Reserve product. And so that is a product that has higher margins, has higher earnings for our drivers as well. At the same time, is introducing new customers into the flow. Same thing for women preferred. Same thing for teens, same thing for older demographic, kind of the simpler product that we have. All of these are introducing our kind of newer use cases or different demographics that are coming to the platform. </p><p>And then last but not least, I&#8217;d say international and the growth that we see in the less dense markets that Balaji just referred to. This is growth outside of the mainline cities. Generally, growth in less dense markets is about 1.5 to 2x more than growth in the middle of the big cities. This is a result of, again, new supply coming on first and then new audience coming on after that supply as well. </p><p>So we&#8217;re very, very happy with the customer growth. And at this point, we don&#8217;t see any signal of it slowing down. And then, of course, what I started with, which is AVs are an entirely new use case. There are people who are curious about the product and then there are people who absolutely love the product, and we think AVs can be another opportunity for customer acquisition. Anything to add, Balaji, to that?&#8221;</p><p>Balaji Krishnamurthy (CFO): &#8220;I&#8217;d just say just adding some quantitative lens on everything Dara said. <strong>If you think about where the crux of our growth is coming from, it&#8217;s still audience growth, which is very encouraging for where this business will go over the next few years.</strong> And looking at 2025, we started the year with MAPC growth at about 14% year-on-year. We ended the year with MAPC growth at 18% year-on-year, which is a very, very strong step up. And there&#8217;s a lot of runway in front of us still as you look at that MAPC number at over 202 million monthly actives, our annual active base is over 450 million, and we are continuing to improve our penetration of that base.</p><p><strong>As we&#8217;re doing that, frequency, while it is growing at a slower rate, that is more a function of our cohorts coming on and maturing from there. What we are seeing is our new rider cohorts, new eater cohorts are exhibiting much stronger retention than prior U.S. cohorts.</strong> And part of it is driven by our focus on early life cycle investments, we&#8217;re ensuring that consumers were acquiring, retain better through the early part of their engagement with Uber&#8217;s platform. Then as we introduce them to multiple products that we are serving our consumers with, which at this point, 40% of consumers in Q4 were using more than one Uber product.</p><p>And then finally, our membership program, which has been a key investment area and still is growing 55% year-on-year, that then supercharges that cohort that we are acquiring. So there&#8217;s a lot of runway here, and we feel pretty good about the investments we&#8217;re making, we are being quite deliberate in measuring the LTV to CAC ratios on that.&#8221; &#8212; Q4&#8217;25</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-38" href="#footnote-anchor-38" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">38</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;We remain very bullish about the opportunity ahead, as our current MAPCs represent only ~5% of the adult population in our operating footprint, and about half of our consumers use our apps just 1-2 times per month, versus a global average of 6.&#8221; &#8212; Q1&#8217;25 prepared remarks</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-39" href="#footnote-anchor-39" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">39</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;I think people &#8212; the average sort of consumer or investor &#8212; says well who doesn&#8217;t have Uber? Everyone I know has got Uber. So how much room is there left to run? But when you think about the sort of large tech companies in the world, they talk about billions of users every month. We&#8217;re still talking about 200 million users every month. There&#8217;s a lot of people that are still new to our platform. There are a lot of large markets where Uber is actually sort of a startup still. You think about the places like Germany and Spain and Japan on the mobility side, Argentina &#8212; these are huge economies where Uber is just getting going. So, we&#8217;re signing up a lot of new users. <strong>And then you&#8217;ll hear us talk a lot about engagement, too. People use Uber on average anywhere between 5.5 and 6 times a month. But in our best markets, that&#8217;s closer to nine, right? And then in the best decile of our best markets, that&#8217;s over 20</strong>.&#8221; &#8212; <em>The Compound</em> podcast (Feb-26)</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-40" href="#footnote-anchor-40" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">40</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>Stephen Ju (Analyst): &#8220;So there&#8217;s a lot of underlying pieces here that&#8217;s driving the growth. But are any of these durable secular changes from your perception that should support higher growth for a longer period of time? So at least high teens in delivery and maybe high teens, hopefully low 20s in mobility over the next 3 years?&#8221;</p><p>Prashanth Mahendra-Rajah (ex CFO): &#8220;Sure, sure. The -- I think maybe 2 -- I&#8217;ll tell you if I zoom back, how do I think about it? The first is what is the -- what&#8217;s sort of our view on penetration. And if we look at our top 10 countries in terms of gross booking size, the number of adults in those countries who use either Uber for rides or delivery is around 15%. So -- and then you have the other 60 countries where that penetration is even lower, right?</p><p>So on average, for the top 10, we&#8217;re at 15%. And then if you look within a given country, the number of folks who are using Uber and Uber Eats together is only at 20%, right? So when we think about over the next several years, why do we remain confident that there is years of growth in front of us? We know from looking at some of our stronger or more penetrated countries, there&#8217;s room to grow that 15%. So that&#8217;s going to continue to tick up and that we&#8217;ve seen that trend very steady across our largest markets.</p><p>You look at the long tail of countries that are not in the 10 largest markets, and those still have to get to the 15%. So still plenty of room to grow there. And then you look at the opportunity to get more folks using both products and grow that 20%. Again, plenty of opportunity there as well. So -- which is really why when we -- over this year, we&#8217;ve been talking more about investing some of our profit dollars for longer duration growth ideas because we have many ideas that we view as -- given the opportunity set in front of us that there&#8217;s a long runway for growth, and we didn&#8217;t want to just focus on -- we&#8217;re coming to the end of our -- of that 3-year framework and then what happens at the end of that. There&#8217;s plenty to go beyond.&#8221; &#8212; UBS conference (Dec-25)</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-41" href="#footnote-anchor-41" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">41</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;We have had supply shocks in the past. For example, during COVID, one of the great things about COVID as it related to Uber &#8212; terrible event obviously &#8212; was that we were able to move our drivers, who were driving for Uber, to make money on Uber Eats. But then after COVID we thought everyone would get back to driving&#8230;So we had to reinvest in supply, very aggressively post COVID. Faster than our competitors, which helped us. Now we have a pretty finely tuned machine. Our retention of drivers is pretty high. On average, drivers are driving more supply hours and spending more time on our platform because they can drive, they can deliver, they can shop.&#8221; &#8212; <em>TBPN</em>, Feb-26</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-42" href="#footnote-anchor-42" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">42</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;So, when you order an Uber ride, we essentially have to scan the market for all the cars out there and where they&#8217;re going, etc. Are they available? Not available? And we have to match you to a car and we&#8217;ve got to price that ride in less than 30 seconds, right? </p><p>We want the ETA to be four, five minutes, and so we have very, very little time to make that decision. So the algorithms that are running have to work very, very quickly. They&#8217;re making tens of millions of predictions per second&#8230;It takes a certain architecture, it takes a bunch of compute. </p><p>With Eats, the average time to make food is like 10, 12 minutes. So your ability to make that match &#8212; you have a lot more time...We essentially make a bid to a courier who can accept the delivery or not. So, let&#8217;s say for a delivery, I&#8217;ve got three bids that I can make for the delivery before the food gets cold. My first bid might be six bucks. My second bid, if [the first courier says] no, may be seven bucks. If they say no, I really have to get you the food. The third bid might be 10 bucks&#8230;</p><p>The Rides team is like, &#8216;Oh, no, no. We can make this recalc&#8217; in 15 seconds.&#8217; So now we&#8217;ve got the ability to make 10 bids. So instead of going from 6 to 7 to 10, you can go from 6, to 6.50, to 6.75, 7 bucks. And so the ultimate cost per transaction, so to speak, is lower just because of compute, speed of algorithms and and decision making.&#8221; &#8212; <em>Decoder</em> (Oct-25)</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-43" href="#footnote-anchor-43" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">43</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;Well, I guess, you could argue the whole thing has, right? So we were -- came in at 21%, gross bookings growth, 60% EBITDA growth. Free cash flow generation as a percentage of EBITDA was 106%. So I think the team has done a really great job of execution. And I would say, for us, as it relates to the business, they&#8217;re just less surprises.</p><p>Like I take that as a really good sign, which is we have a team that&#8217;s executing well on a quarter-by-quarter basis, on a year-on-year basis. It&#8217;s getting boring, but there are just much less surprises as it relates to the business. And I would say, as it relates to mobility, we continue to be, I guess, surprised, if you want to call it that, by the strength of the core business and then some of the growth that we&#8217;re making actually feeding the core. So I&#8217;ll give you an example in terms of Reserve, one example. We had originally -- when we thought about the Reserve and kind of built the PRD in terms of Reserve, we thought, hey, this is -- it allows riders to pay a higher price for higher reliability, and that&#8217;s a good trade.</p><p>And so we will be able to get a premium, higher reliability, and that was a formula. It turns out that there&#8217;s actually, especially in the suburbs outside in the less dense areas, there&#8217;s a whole new user segment coming because with a relatively low reliability in those markets, they just didn&#8217;t use the product, especially for use cases like airports. So the actual -- some of these newer products are completely new use cases. They are premium segments and our margins and reserves are significantly higher than the margins of the core business, but they&#8217;re actually adding new audience to the business. Same thing, for example, 2 wheelers in Latin America and India.</p><p>These are lower-cost products. They&#8217;ll cost 40% of an UberX, and there&#8217;s a whole new segment audience coming in using these lower-cost products at much higher frequency, average frequency levels. But 20% to 30% of the time when they are going out on a date, when it&#8217;s raining, et cetera, they will upgrade from a 2 wheeler to a 4 wheeler to the UberX product as well. So a bunch of these newer products are actually driving audience growth, and audience growth for us, over 170 million monthly actives growing 14% has been a really nice surprise for us. And generally, I would say that core business, the expansion into less dense marketplaces, it really started with Eats, and it really started with Eats in the U.S. going into the suburbs and really going up against DoorDash, kind of DoorDash&#8217;s core strength. We expanded the Eats expansion into noncore markets internationally. For example, in the U.K., we think we&#8217;re now category position 1 in the U.K. as it relates to Eats. One of the biggest success stories in the U.K. for us has been growth outside of London in the secondary markets, et cetera. We&#8217;ve now translated that program to our mobility products as well with the Reserve and other products, again, growth outside the mainline cities.</p><p>So we are pleasantly surprised by the continual growth of the core. Part of it is driven by the new investments that we&#8217;re making in some of these newer products. Part of it is pleasant surprises like, oh my god, there&#8217;s a huge business outside of the city cores as well. And then on top of that, you&#8217;ve got membership and multiproduct as well that continue to be engines of growth. So all of that for us is turning out to be -- make for a pretty good equation for us going forward.&#8221; &#8212; Morgan Stanley conference (Mar-25)</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-44" href="#footnote-anchor-44" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">44</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>Uber actually <a href="https://abc7.com/post/uber-files-federal-lawsuit-known-la-personal-injury-attorneys-accuses-fraud/17233297/">sued a group</a> of LA-based personal injury attorneys and medical groups in federal court, alleging fraudulent medical bills. According to the article: &#8220;In Los Angeles County, Uber says it&#8217;s 45% [government-mandated accident insurance] compared to just 5% in places like Massachusetts and Washington D.C. That cost is passed onto riders. A lawsuit filed by Uber in federal court on Monday aims to address the problem by targeting what they call &#8216;phantom damages.&#8217;&#8221; Uber has also sued an alleged <a href="https://www.insurancebusinessmag.com/us/news/risk-compliance-legal/uber-and-liberty-mutual-sue-alleged-fraud-ring-over-staged-crashes-571969.aspx">fraud ring in NY</a> that was staging crashes to collect injury damages. </p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-45" href="#footnote-anchor-45" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">45</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;We see similar sort of themes in Europe and markets like Lat Am as well, where we are expanding with our Moto product, which is today 15% of first trips in Brazil and 90% of these Moto consumers migrate from Moto to UberX and other Uber products, which are quite profitable for us as well, so lots of runway with the product and geographical expansion we are driving here.&#8221; &#8212; Morgan Stanley conference (Mar-26)</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-46" href="#footnote-anchor-46" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">46</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;Third, while the AV software stack is advancing, progress from auto OEMs has been slower. Yet OEMs will be critical to delivering cost-effective vehicles at scale. So far, most AV players have retrofitted a small number of traditional vehicles with the sensor kit that is necessary for safety today. <strong>With costs of over $200K+ per vehicle, these cars are extremely expensive.</strong> But in order to drive incremental TAM penetration, costs will need to come down dramatically&#8212;without compromising on safety. Even though OEM capacity remains a bottleneck to commercialization today, we believe that in the long run, autonomy will be an enabling technology and all new vehicles will be sold with L4-capable software. In that world, vehicle supply will gravitate toward Uber&#8217;s high-utilization network, much like the nearly 17 million drivers and couriers who took a trip on our platform in 2024.&#8221;  &#8212; Q4&#8217;24 Supplemental</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-47" href="#footnote-anchor-47" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">47</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;Our strategy is consistent in automotive as with other markets. We&#8217;re trying to build the reinforced data loop from car to cloud, and that spans three computers. The training computer, the simulation computer, and the in-car computer. We&#8217;re trying to build the most efficient loop across those three computers. And we&#8217;re helping our partners &#8212; we built this stack to be modular &#8212; so they can pick and choose what parts of that full stack they want our help to develop. </p><p>So what we&#8217;re driving in today [a Mercedes] is a reference of how NVIDIA has built the entire stack &#8212; the platform layer, the chip, the sensors, the operating system, the models that run on this car, the application of parking, active safety and driving &#8212; you&#8217;re experiencing it. This is really good for a passenger car, right? And we trained the models, and we simulated the models. </p><p>And now we go to a customer, and we say, &#8216;Do you need help building your version of this?&#8217; And we&#8217;ll help them any way they want across that 3 computer challenge. And the point of this is building this needs those three computers. That&#8217;s what we do.</p><p>So we have customers like Tesla, who says to us, &#8216;We don&#8217;t need any of your help for the chip in the car, the operating system, or the models in the car. We&#8217;ve got that.&#8217; And so Tesla is an example of we don&#8217;t need you in the car or to build the models. But I need your help for training. And it turns out that you can use us just there, and Tesla is still our biggest customer in automotive. Because the infrastructure computer is the biggest computer. It&#8217;s the most important part &#8212; it&#8217;s the biggest brain, it&#8217;s where we help the most.</p><p>And here&#8217;s a case [Mercedes], where a reference partner is asking us to do the full three computers and the full stack. And that&#8217;s okay. And then last week there was an announcement that Wayve is working with Nissan to do robotaxis in Japan. And they&#8217;re also doing it in London. Wayve is a customer that builds the AV software themselves, but they develop on our chip in the car. That car is a Hyperion 10 car. So they&#8217;re getting our chips in the car. They&#8217;re building their AV software. They&#8217;re training on our GPUs in the cloud. And they&#8217;re using parts of our Omniverse synthetic data generation platform to test their software. So it&#8217;s a three computer customer, but they didn&#8217;t take the full stack. They took the portions of the end-to-end system that made sense for them, and augmented. And that&#8217;s what&#8217;s unique &#8212; there&#8217;s no [other] company that does that. There was another announcement that Zoox is working with Uber on robotaxis. They&#8217;re using us in-car, and they&#8217;re training their models in the cloud with us. So they&#8217;re working with us on two of the computers&#8230;Waymo is another one &#8212; they use us in the car and they use [us] to train.&#8221; &#8212; Ali Kani (VP of Automotive at NVIDIA) on Automotive News&#8217; <em>Shift</em> podcast (Mar-26)</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-48" href="#footnote-anchor-48" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">48</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;<strong>We open sourced this model. </strong>You will have to train it, post train it on your data. So you&#8217;re going to use NVIDIA GPUs to train, right? Then you need to test it, and you&#8217;re probably gonna be testing on NVIDIA GPUs and then also Omniverse and Cosmos software, which is also open sourced. So if you&#8217;re a customer that uses that, and then you choose to inference on let&#8217;s say your own SOC, like Tesla, or someone else&#8217;s SOC &#8212; it&#8217;s still great for NVIDIA. <strong>And so we&#8217;re happy to open source it because the biggest part of our business is in training and simulation.</strong> And I think it&#8217;s the right thing for the industry, because why do you have to go figure out how to build it and train this model? Why don&#8217;t we give you the tools, the software, the frameworks, the scripts and the core code? So that you can then take it and distill it down, apply it to your vehicle and then ship it? Our strategy is just help people have the best AV. It&#8217;s not for them to buy our chip in the car.&#8221; &#8212; Ali Kani (VP of Automotive at NVIDIA) on Automotive News&#8217; <em>Shift</em> podcast (Mar-26)</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-49" href="#footnote-anchor-49" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">49</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>Interviewer: &#8220;Another thing that Jensen mentioned was the open sourcing of the model itself, the simulation as well as the data set. What is the rationale for Nvidia to do that? Is that a way of trying to set some standard or benchmark for the industry?&#8221;</p><p>AK: &#8220;Yeah. I think here it&#8217;s just understanding, the way our strategy &#8212; like what does NVIDIA, what are we thinking in all of these decisions? So the first thing is we have three computers that we try to help customers with. There&#8217;s the training computer, there&#8217;s the simulation computer, and then there&#8217;s the in-car computer. So when we open source Alpamayo, we open source the model but you need to take that model and you need to train it on some hardware. And so we&#8217;re selling you that hardware. So we&#8217;re open sourcing software, but we&#8217;re still helping you and you still need some kind of a target platform to train on. And so we&#8217;re helping you on the training side. So you have to be a customer on the training side.</p><p>And then same thing we can open source Cosmos to you, but it needs to run on something. It runs on RTX. And so, you know, you buy that hardware. So our our go-to-market is we sell you hardware and give you software, but then you know you need to use our hardware to run the software. </p><p>So the only place that&#8217;s a little bit unique is in-car. The in-car computer is the smallest of all our opportunities. You don&#8217;t actually have to use our chip in the car to be an important customer of ours. Our biggest customer in automotive actually is Tesla. They don&#8217;t use our chips in the car. But they do a lot of training on our platform. And so we love that partner. </p><p>And so for many customers, we could say, &#8216;Look, here&#8217;s some software. You could take it to build your own product. And let&#8217;s just help you with training and let&#8217;s just help you with simulation and you don&#8217;t need to use this in the car.&#8217; By open sourcing Alpamayo, we&#8217;re also giving customers that choice. They can actually take Alpamayo and they could distill it down and run it on someone else&#8217;s computer and that&#8217;s perfectly fine because they&#8217;re going to be really important training and simulation partners of ours.&#8221; &#8212; Ali Kani, VP of Automotive at NVIDIA, Counterpoint Research <a href="https://youtu.be/dDHfG-YJKAU?t=702">interview</a> (Jan-26)</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-50" href="#footnote-anchor-50" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">50</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>Interviewer: &#8220;I&#8217;m interested in the number of partners that were announced today in the keynote. How is it that you&#8217;ve managed to rapidly build this ecosystem? As you say, not all of your partners are necessarily using NVIDIA hardware, but they&#8217;re capable of building on top of these different software platforms and even from hardware through to services as well. So maybe you can talk a little bit about what NVIDIA is doing there. </p><p>AK: &#8220;Yeah, I mean I think the key here is that when you want to build a level four system, what&#8217;s most important is safety. And NVIDIA, we have this platform, we call it Halos. What we mean by Halos is it&#8217;s like all of the tools and methodology and architecture to build a safe autonomous driving solution. We&#8217;ve taken all of our knowhow and we&#8217;ve crystallized it across the stack from the chip in the car to the operating system to the architecture to the application software to how we train and how we simulate all of that. We&#8217;ve taken that safety sensibility too from cloud to car and when customers are building level four systems the architecture we&#8217;ve built for Hyperion, it leverages so much of our knowhow that it accelerates the work of our partners in a significant way. </p><p>So the reason why the adoption is so big is as customers are taking a look at that architecture. How you have two Thors, each of them are redundantly powered. How we&#8217;ve architected the sensors such that if the sensors on this ECU fail, the sensors connected to the other ECU &#8212; they could still pull over, take you to a safe space and stop. When customers see all that work and the platform software that stabilizes that platform for us it just makes sense for them to leverage that architecture. </p><p><strong>And we&#8217;ve now built a huge ecosystem of AV software companies that are also building software on that architecture, right? For an OEM, it makes sense &#8212; let me save my time, let me align to this architecture and now also I can call 10 AV companies who can be my partners because they&#8217;ve all invested in this one platform. It&#8217;s such a win-win for the ecosystem and it also brings the world to level four faster and it&#8217;s also a safer product because any learning we get from the ecosystem we put it into the platform and the base software.</strong> And so any bugs or anything that we learn from from all these ecosystem partners, we just roll it back in and everyone gets the benefit of it.&#8221; &#8212; Ali Kani (VP of Automotive at NVIDIA), Counterpoint Research <a href="https://youtu.be/dDHfG-YJKAU?t=695">interview</a> (Jan-26)</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-51" href="#footnote-anchor-51" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">51</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>Interviewer: &#8220;Are you able to say who is manufacturing the Uber partnership vehicles?&#8221;</p><p>AK: &#8220;We&#8217;re going to take time to pick. And it could be different ones in different cities. But you can see is we&#8217;re announcing Hyperion OEMs, right? So those are the choices that we have so far. We&#8217;ve announced Mercedes. We&#8217;ve announced Lucid. We&#8217;ve announced Stellantis. We&#8217;ve announced Nissan. We&#8217;ve announced Hynudai, BYD and Geely. So all of those are available. They&#8217;re exactly the car that we&#8217;re gonna be building to Thor with the sensors. And so then, it&#8217;ll just be a, &#8216;Where are you?&#8217; What region are you in? And what&#8217;s the best OEM car for that region. And you know, they can buy whatever is the best option.&#8221; &#8212; Ali Kani (VP of Automotive at NVIDIA) on Automotive News&#8217; <em>Shift</em> podcast (Mar-26)</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-52" href="#footnote-anchor-52" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">52</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;We are working with almost all [of the] OEMs right now. I would say 80% of the mass production OEMs are [working] in NVIDIA&#8217;s Hyperion ecosystem for L4. So we are really building this future with everybody.&#8221; &#8212; Xinzhou Wu (Head of Automotive at NVIDIA), Decoder (Jul-26)</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-53" href="#footnote-anchor-53" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">53</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>Eric Sheridan (Analyst): &#8220;I want to come back to the concept you introduced in the letter around less dense markets. Could you go a little bit deeper in both the opportunity set but also some of the operational dynamics of building supply as well as stimulating demand in less dense markets and how we should be thinking about that scaling in the years ahead?&#8221;</p><p>DK: &#8220;Yes, Eric. We think it&#8217;s a terrific opportunity. And frankly, sometimes we kick ourselves for not recognizing it properly earlier. Uber started as a company in the middle of big cities and our biggest cities, Sao Paulo, New York, et cetera are -- continue to be the largest source of demand. But continuously, we&#8217;ve seen that our growth outside of the core in the boroughs of New York, now extending into the suburbs or in secondary and tertiary cities has been higher than the core itself, almost accidentally, and this is true for Mobility and Delivery as well.</p><p>And really for us, the start of our focus on less dense areas started with Delivery. In the U.S., especially if you look at noncore cities, et cetera, it&#8217;s 60%, 70% of the market, so the majority of the market there. Generally, it&#8217;s growing faster than city centers as well. So we&#8217;ve really started focusing on improving selection in those areas. And then like you said, then building out the liquidity that&#8217;s necessary in terms of both demand and supply, couriers and making sure that those couriers are busy.</p><p>And that kind of cycle, that positive cycle of investing in supply and demand together, increasing liquidity, getting better ETAs, getting better service levels starts to accelerate and add to itself.</p><p>And we&#8217;re starting to see that now in Delivery but not just in the U.S., we&#8217;ve extended this focus in the U.K., Australia, really all over the world. We&#8217;re looking at the density by quartile of all of the areas that we deliver to or all the areas that we are giving mobility services to people to and we are actively investing in those less dense areas. And we think the opportunity set there is very, very significant, both in Mobility and Delivery. So we think it&#8217;s early days and -- but it is a focus of both Mobility and Delivery. And I think it will be a tailwind to our core business in terms of growth over the next 2 to 3 years and hopefully even more than that.&#8221; &#8212; Q3&#8217;24</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-54" href="#footnote-anchor-54" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">54</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;I&#8217;d say generally in the US, suburbs are growing faster than cities. So this is a trend that started with COVID, and continues. And our growth in the suburbs and less dense areas is about twice our growth rate in the cities.&#8221; &#8212; <em>TBPN</em> (Feb-26)</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-55" href="#footnote-anchor-55" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">55</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;<strong>The way I think about where grocery and retail as a category is, I like to think about this as a journey where food delivery was in 2019 or 2020, right?</strong> So it&#8217;s quite early. And at that point of time, just for context, our food delivery business was doing about $14 billion of gross bookings. <strong>Our grocery and retail business right now is $12 billion, $13 billion</strong>. And now of course, our overall business is near $100 billion, so clearly, the expansion that came after that.&#8221; &#8212; Morgan Stanley conference (Mar-26)</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-56" href="#footnote-anchor-56" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">56</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;On top of that, obviously, we see our grocery business as well. Outside of the U.S., we are in a position &#8212; we&#8217;re absolutely in a pole position to be the leader in terms of grocery delivery.&#8221; &#8212; Goldman conference (Sep-25)</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-57" href="#footnote-anchor-57" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">57</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;And then the third big push for us is grocery and retail. The grocery and retail category is larger than the online food delivery category. This is about we are increasing selection there as far as the number of merchants that we have. We introduced Dollar General, Home Depot. There are some really exciting announcements coming up.</p><p>As we improve the selection for grocery and retail, we&#8217;re seeing a higher, higher percentage of online food delivery consumers trying out grocery and retail. <strong>It was about 18% of our audience on Eats tried out grocery and retail. It&#8217;s up to 30% in certain markets.</strong> So we think we have a good kind of running room there.</p><p>And one interesting factor that we&#8217;re seeing with grocery and retail is it&#8217;s actually -- when we first got into grocery and retail, I kind of thought about it as an upsell channel. Let&#8217;s take people who are buying food. Let&#8217;s get them shopping convenience and then we&#8217;ll get them kind of getting -- doing their weekly shop and driving basket sizes higher.</p><p>In the retail category, actually now there are retail occasions that we can really merchandise around that are attracting either big-time audience of our established audience to the site or attracting new audience. And for example, Valentine&#8217;s Day is an example, Mother&#8217;s Day was our best week ever as it related to grocery and retail. So that business is getting to be a higher percentage of our overall. It&#8217;s accelerated for 2 quarters running. It is variable contribution, profitable, not EBITDA profitable yet, and it will be too soon to drive EBITDA profitability.&#8221; &#8212; JPMorgan conference (May-25)</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-58" href="#footnote-anchor-58" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">58</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;Now I would tell you that the most important KPIs for us on Grocery right now are still customer-led KPIs. What&#8217;s the -- what percentage of our audience are we upselling into Grocery? What&#8217;s the repeat rate of that customer? What&#8217;s the average fill rate of a particular order? So in terms of importance, customer-facing KPIs are more important than P&amp;L KPIs. Now all of it is important.</p><p>In terms of P&amp;L, it&#8217;s really the biggest 2 items that we look at are basket size and then cost per order, right? <strong>And obviously, delivery costs a certain amount. So the larger your basket size, the greater opportunity you have for profits. And then the cost per transaction, the more to the extent you can batch, double batch, triple batch, quadruple batch, et cetera, that helps the CPT as well.</strong></p><p>On top of that, we have the advertising revenue. <strong>Advertising and -- the advertising revenue for us in Grocery is relatively nascent, which is we have just built a sponsored items product very much along the same product that Instacart has built. Instacart has built a very strong advertising product, and we&#8217;re building something quite similar. And we&#8217;re quite confident that advertising in Grocery is going to be actually significantly higher as a percentage of GBs than our Food business.</strong></p><p>When we put it all together, <strong>one big advantage we have on Grocery is our cost of customer acquisition is next to nothing.</strong> And we can upsell this audience. So that puts us in a position where we&#8217;re quite confident that over the next 2 to 5 years, we can grow Grocery top line. But every year, we can improve on Grocery margins at the same time and get to a profitable business. <strong>Most of the profits are going to come from advertising.</strong></p><p>But the platform advantages that we have and the technical advantages that we have in terms of payment and fraud and CPT put us in a very strong position.&#8221; &#8212; Morgan Stanley (Mar-24)</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-59" href="#footnote-anchor-59" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">59</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;Number two is affordability in price. And the big levers there are our membership program, 60% of gross bookings coming from members that get locked into our ecosystem, so to speak. Obviously, they want to be locked into the ecosystem because they&#8217;re getting a great deal. And then merchant-funded offers. These are the offers that I talked about, and a higher and higher percentage of our gross bookings is coming from merchant-funded offers.&#8221; &#8212; JPMorgan conference (May-25)</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-60" href="#footnote-anchor-60" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">60</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;Based on third party data, we estimate our business currently addresses global markets with more than 300 million households and 750 million people, total restaurant spend of over $1.0 trillion, and total grocery and convenience spend of over $2.5 trillion. Based on those estimates, we believe the Wolt and DoorDash Marketplaces currently represent just 5% of restaurant spend in these markets and well under 1% of convenience, grocery, and non-food spend.&#8221; <em>&#8212; </em>DoorDash Q2&#8217;22 earnings</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-61" href="#footnote-anchor-61" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">61</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;So I&#8217;d say the first thing, again, if you start with the core, the food delivery business, if you look at the penetration of, for example, the broad retail commerce category, <strong>broad retail commerce is in the mid-20s in terms of penetration of overall e-commerce. Delivery is still substantially more immature than that. It&#8217;s probably in the mid-teens.</strong> So I do think that the online food, the core food delivery business still has significant runway ahead of it. And there&#8217;s no reason why it can&#8217;t penetrate just like overall commerce, if not more, because we certainly think the benefits could be higher.&#8221; &#8212; Goldman conference (Sep-25)</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-62" href="#footnote-anchor-62" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">62</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>Michael Morton (Analyst): &#8220;Sorry to beat this synergy question to death, but are you able to bucket the synergies in size that are operational versus what your expectations are for revenue synergies?&#8221;</p><p>Balaji Krishnamurthy (CFO): &#8220;I&#8217;m not going to get into that level of granularity. But I will say that the revenue synergy piece embedded in here is quite small relative to the $1.2 billion. And I think as we look at the overall final delivery, my instinct which Dara shares is that likely that number will be larger.&#8221;</p><p>Dara Khosrowshahi (CEO): &#8220;Yes, I think, just to make sure we underline that. We&#8217;ve been very consistent with you, with the Street, with our investors as to what expectations are in terms of our performance. Whether it was a long-term plan that we put into place or it&#8217;s a quarterly guidance that we give you. And this is a team that delivers. And I think the Delivery Hero team has built an incredible standalone asset, so to speak, but <strong>we think that the synergy value here is compelling, and we wouldn&#8217;t be putting up a number like that unless we were highly confident to be able to deliver that number and hopefully more</strong>.&#8221; &#8212; Uber&#8217;s Delivery Hero M&amp;A Call (Jul-26)</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-63" href="#footnote-anchor-63" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">63</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;Price, for us, we essentially want to keep price flat if we can. And price will be a mix of, typically, will grow faster outside of the U.S. than inside of the U.S. So kind of geographic mix will be holding price down for us, and we just -- we think that as a company, we should take price as sparingly as possible.&#8221; &#8212; Goldman conference (Sep-24)</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-64" href="#footnote-anchor-64" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">64</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;So the -- I&#8217;m going to -- let&#8217;s take that from the angle of a few things to remember in how we run the network. <strong>One, the goal for us is to drive our take rate as low as possible. There&#8217;s a few reasons for that. One, a low take rate creates a meaningful barrier to entry. Second, a low take rate helps create internal pressure on the organization to constantly be driving out costs and ensuring that we are running the network as efficiently as possible.</strong> You see that in every quarter, we report sort of a few basis points of incremental margin that we are able to extract from our cost structure by continuing to grind down those costs.&#8221; &#8212; Barclays conference (Dec-24)</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-65" href="#footnote-anchor-65" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">65</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;And at the high end, we&#8217;re building premium experiences that expand margins and support reinvestment. <strong>We&#8217;re already seeing strong momentum in premium, with Uber for Business (U4B) growing more than twice as fast as Mobility overall, as we continue to lead in corporate travel globally.</strong> Building on this, we introduced Uber Elite, our most elevated ride experience to date, designed for executives and frequent travelers, with professional chauffeurs and luxury vehicles and a high-touch, reservation-based experience. To further accelerate our plans, we announced an agreement to acquire Blacklane, a leading global chauffeur platform operating in 500+ cities.&#8221; &#8212; Q1&#8217;26 prepared remarks</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-66" href="#footnote-anchor-66" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">66</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>Interviewer: &#8220;And did you learn what kind of people to bet on?&#8230;&#8221;</p><p>DK: &#8220;I think for me the most important was people who were loyal and <strong>people who told the truth.</strong> There were certain clients who you saw who, they would sell you in terms of expectations. They would sell you in terms of what they were going to do. And then there were some executives who I saw, who yeah I mean there&#8217;s some selling going on for any executive, but <strong>they would tell you both the good and the bad of their company and they came from kind of this &#8220;truth telling&#8221; place. And those were the people who I was always attracted to.</strong>&#8221; &#8212; <em>HD in HD podcast</em> (Nov-25)</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-67" href="#footnote-anchor-67" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">67</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;So when I think about the capital allocation priorities, for us, they fall into 5 separate pillars, and I&#8217;ll just go through them quickly. </p><p>The first one is that we will continue to make disciplined reinvestments into our core business. And effectively, what we&#8217;re trying to do there is to ensure that we are investing to maximize the lifetime value of our cohorts, ensure that the profit dollars that are flowing through to the business over time are maximized and really driving operating leverage as we are making these investments. So that&#8217;s the first pillar, and we&#8217;ll continue to do that. There&#8217;s lots of areas we can talk about in terms of the investments we are making. </p><p><strong>Even as we do that, we are in this fortunate position where we just generated $10 billion of free cash flow, so it gives us lots of room to do other things on our capital allocation priority stack.</strong> And the #1 item that I think about there is to ensure that we are making the right-sized investments behind AVs. And for Uber, AVs are going to be a massive opportunity over the coming years, and we have this strategy here, which is designed to ensure that we are staying nimble. We&#8217;re making the right investments across the ecosystem, and I&#8217;m sure we&#8217;ll talk about that. </p><p>Then the third thing that we are doing is ensuring that for M&amp;A, we are holding a very high bar. We don&#8217;t want to get distracted when we have the sort of opportunities we have in our core, and we are making these investments in AV. So what we are looking for are bolt-on opportunities that fit with our strategy and can accelerate our organic path, right? Good examples of that would be what we&#8217;ve announced in Turkey with Trendyol Go and Getir. And recently, we acquired SpotHero on the mobility side as well. Those are the sort of acquisitions that you should be looking at us doing. </p><p>Then, as we&#8217;ve done those things, we still are left with a lot of cash to ensure that we continue to return capital to shareholders. And last year, we returned more than $6 billion. We continue to remain on that kind of a footing for this year. The refinement that you should look for is that we will look at dislocations in our stock, and when we find those opportunities, we&#8217;ll be aggressive. And we are not looking for it to be a steady every quarter kind of a buyback. And I said this on the earnings call as well. We think our stock is dislocated right now, and we are being aggressive, right?</p><p>And then the final piece there then is we&#8217;re doing all of these things while retaining our investment-grade rating. We will maintain financial policies and liquidity that keep us in that place and allow us to expand on our strategy.&#8221; &#8212; Morgan Stanley conference (Mar-26)</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-68" href="#footnote-anchor-68" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">68</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;Every company should allocate capital smartly. Part of that capital allocation is M&amp;A as we demonstrated with the proposed deal in Taiwan. <strong>But I think the way to get to attractive deals is, first of all, not to have to do a deal in the first place. So there&#8217;s a lot of energy that goes into organic growth of the company, because it allows us then to be picky in terms of inorganic growth.</strong> And I do think inorganic growth will be a part of the formula going forward, especially as capital markets become more difficult for smaller companies who can&#8217;t scale.&#8221; &#8212; Goldman conference (Sep-24)</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-69" href="#footnote-anchor-69" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">69</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;Yesterday, we announced an agreement to acquire a controlling stake in Turkey&#8217;s leading food delivery and grocery service, Trendyol GO, for approximately $700 million in cash. Trendyol GO generated $2 billion in Gross Bookings in 2024, and we expect the transaction to be accretive to Uber&#8217;s growth post-integration. We are excited at the prospect of combining Uber&#8217;s global marketplace expertise with Trendyol&#8217;s extensive coverage across Turkey and its deep relationships with beloved local merchants. <strong>We estimate that Turkey represents our third-largest untapped delivery market globally (after India and Brazil), with strong growth and underlying fundamentals.</strong> Our Mobility business in the country is also scaling quickly, and we look forward to bringing the power of the Uber platform to Turkish consumers, improving their product experience and supercharging business growth in the years ahead.&#8221; &#8212; Q1&#8217;25 prepared remarks</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-70" href="#footnote-anchor-70" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">70</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>Interviewer: &#8220;What did you learn from Barry Diller?&#8221;</p><p>DK: &#8220;He&#8217;s incredible. He he&#8217;s been my business mentor and in many ways a personal mentor as well. I&#8217;d say that the thing that I learned from Barry is the value of getting the truth from the source material. </p><p>The way that he that I first met Barry, I was actually an analyst at Allen and Company working on the LBO model for Paramount. There was a hostile tender offer from Viacom for Paramount. I was building out the LBO model, right? Barry didn&#8217;t want to talk to the MD or the VP or the associate. He&#8217;s like, &#8216;Who built the model?&#8217; And &#8216;I&#8217;m going to talk to that guy&#8217; because if I&#8217;m going to raise billions of dollars in debt, I want to know I&#8217;m good for it. And I just remember I was like sweating. I was so nervous. I&#8217;m like trying to print out this model. And I took him through it and and he wanted to hear straight from the source. And every time I&#8217;ve witnessed him and I worked for him for 20 plus years, you know, it&#8217;s the filtering that gets the edge out of the story or out of the situation. </p><p>And it&#8217;s often the edge that gives you an edge. It&#8217;s not the the the average. Everyone is going to have the same reaction to the average. It&#8217;s what&#8217;s that 20%. What&#8217;s what&#8217;s that P95 situation, etc. So Barry always insisted on going to the source, getting unfiltered data. It was sometimes unpleasant. It took more time. But getting to the ground truth would help his decision-making and would allow him to get that edge to go against the grain. </p><p>And I&#8217;ve taken that with me. You know, I&#8217;ve seen in larger companies, like, most people who are run companies &#8212; they&#8217;re smart, they&#8217;re capable, they&#8217;re driven. And the failure that I see with most companies is that, you know, the higher up you are in an organization, often you get like a very thin layer of what&#8217;s going on. And everything has been processed for you. Like my schedule today, it&#8217;s determined by a bunch of well-meaning people who want to get me the best information and have me use my time in the best way. But it&#8217;s processed. And so, it&#8217;s very important for you to cut through that process sometimes and get to that ground truth. You&#8217;ve got to create some randomness in your interactions and your information flow. And Barry often painfully kind of drove to that source. </p><p>And it&#8217;s always for me been a very, very important part of how I manage, which is that the best way to get to the truth is, first of all, as a leader &#8212; tell the truth. So I&#8217;m brutally frank with my team. What&#8217;s going on? What&#8217;s good? What&#8217;s bad? What&#8217;s okay? Where do I not know the answers. And that helps me then get that truth back from them. Sometimes it requires me to dig and that can be unpleasant both for me and the team. But getting to the ground truth is something that I learned for Barry and and it&#8217;s always stuck with me.&#8221; &#8212; Invest Like the Best (Jun-26)</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-71" href="#footnote-anchor-71" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">71</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;Probably the most interest the most important lesson I learned at Allen &amp; Company wasn&#8217;t mathematical. It wasn&#8217;t based on models, etc., it was &#8212; I remember Herbert Allen always talking about how he bet on people. He&#8217;s like, &#8216;Good companies come and go. Good people stay good. Just bet on good people in your life and you&#8217;ll be fine.&#8217; And so, it is a bank and they make money the way banks do &#8212; through fees, etc. But they really build their relationships, personal relationships with their clients over a period of time. They tell clients what they don&#8217;t want to hear. And so for me, an appreciation of these relationships and betting on people in my life, both personally and professionally, it&#8217;s probably the biggest lesson I learned at Allen, funny enough.&#8221; &#8212; <em>HD in HD</em> podcast (Nov-25)</p></div></div>]]></content:encoded></item><item><title><![CDATA[Operating Leverage as a Source of Market Inefficiency]]></title><description><![CDATA[One source of market inefficiency is margins.]]></description><link>https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/p/operating-leverage-as-a-source-of</link><guid isPermaLink="false">https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/p/operating-leverage-as-a-source-of</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[Ryan Seawell]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2026 16:29:24 GMT</pubDate><enclosure url="https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!tySc!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F16353382-23b9-407a-8dee-b8c5ad2d7121_2317x689.png" length="0" type="image/jpeg"/><content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One source of market inefficiency is margins. Specifically, projecting future margin profiles in cases of extreme operating leverage.</p><p>Pat Dorsey, in this <a href="https://youtu.be/YFS5JBgz1Xc?t=3557">talk</a> at Google, explains:</p><blockquote><p>PAT DORSEY: &#8220;So when Morningstar initiated on MasterCard, when it went public at $40, $50 a share, I remember our analyst wanted to put like a $100, $110 price target on it. <strong>And I was like, dude, you&#8217;re nuts, man. This thing is coming public at like $40. We&#8217;re not going to stick our necks out that far.</strong> Come on. How good a business is this? </p><p>And what he did is he just walked through fixed versus variable. That basically, okay &#8212; [there&#8217;s] very little variable costs in this business. You&#8217;ve got the fixed cost of a network, the data processing network. But then of the incremental revenue, tons will flow down to the bottom line. And this is where &#8212; and this is a geek thing &#8212; when you&#8217;re modeling out a high-growth company, don&#8217;t model in percentages. Model in dollars. </p><p><strong>So it optically looks weird to say, margins are going to go from 13% to 25%. Ah! This is huge! My God, that&#8217;s never going to happen!</strong> So don&#8217;t do it in percentages. Don&#8217;t do operating margins doing from x to y. Think about fixed versus variable. How many dollars will they need to spend to get each dollar of additional revenue? And then see what operating margin falls out of that. And you may come to a very different conclusion.&#8221;</p><p>AUDIENCE: &#8220;Is that like operating leverage that you--&#8221;</p><p>PAT DORSEY: &#8220;Yeah, it&#8217;s operating leverage. <strong>And I have found that operating leverage is frequently one of the most mispriced things in the market because nobody wants to like hand their boss the portfolio manager or the director of research a model that shows something going from 13% to 30% margins.</strong> Because they&#8217;re going to get it back, and they&#8217;re going to say, you&#8217;re nuts, man.&#8221;</p></blockquote><p>I&#8217;ve found this to be very true. </p><p>Yes, these high-growth/high-leverage models are more common today than twenty years ago. But still &#8212; banking on substantial margin inflection is scary because (1) it rarely happens (especially outside of tech), (2) even if it does happen, timing can be hard to predict and (3) you are sticking your neck out, as Dorsey says, by underwriting to it (much better to underwrite to strong-but-not-crazy operating leverage &#8212; you can still get credit for a nice call, but don&#8217;t have to look stupid if/when extreme operating leverage ultimately fails to materialize). </p><p>I&#8217;d say there&#8217;s a natural cap on believable margin expansion over a ~5 year window that lies somewhere in the neighborhood of ~1,000 bps (and this would be in an upside scenario, almost certainly not a base case).</p><div><hr></div><p>So what actually happened at MasterCard? I was curious, so I went back and looked. </p><p>Here is the P&amp;L you would have seen at the time of its IPO in 2006:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!tySc!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F16353382-23b9-407a-8dee-b8c5ad2d7121_2317x689.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!tySc!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F16353382-23b9-407a-8dee-b8c5ad2d7121_2317x689.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!tySc!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F16353382-23b9-407a-8dee-b8c5ad2d7121_2317x689.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!tySc!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F16353382-23b9-407a-8dee-b8c5ad2d7121_2317x689.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!tySc!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F16353382-23b9-407a-8dee-b8c5ad2d7121_2317x689.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!tySc!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F16353382-23b9-407a-8dee-b8c5ad2d7121_2317x689.png" width="1456" height="433" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/16353382-23b9-407a-8dee-b8c5ad2d7121_2317x689.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:433,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:93986,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/183457309?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F16353382-23b9-407a-8dee-b8c5ad2d7121_2317x689.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!tySc!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F16353382-23b9-407a-8dee-b8c5ad2d7121_2317x689.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!tySc!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F16353382-23b9-407a-8dee-b8c5ad2d7121_2317x689.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!tySc!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F16353382-23b9-407a-8dee-b8c5ad2d7121_2317x689.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!tySc!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F16353382-23b9-407a-8dee-b8c5ad2d7121_2317x689.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>As we can see, MasterCard demonstrated healthy growth (a 15% 5-yr revenue CAGR) combined with a consistent margin profile of 12-14%. </p><p>Looking at this, a responsible analyst taking a cursory look might have baked in something like ~0-500 bps of margin improvement over the next ~five years (in a base case scenario). A better analyst, taking the time to really understand MasterCard&#8217;s unit economics/incremental margin profile, might&#8217;ve still only forecasted say ~500-1,000 bps of incremental improvement.</p><p>Here&#8217;s what actually happened:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!474S!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbb6add09-68ed-4eef-8525-a9f9d682d152_3554x950.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!474S!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbb6add09-68ed-4eef-8525-a9f9d682d152_3554x950.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!474S!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbb6add09-68ed-4eef-8525-a9f9d682d152_3554x950.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!474S!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbb6add09-68ed-4eef-8525-a9f9d682d152_3554x950.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!474S!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbb6add09-68ed-4eef-8525-a9f9d682d152_3554x950.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!474S!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbb6add09-68ed-4eef-8525-a9f9d682d152_3554x950.png" width="1456" height="389" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/bb6add09-68ed-4eef-8525-a9f9d682d152_3554x950.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:389,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:372113,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/183457309?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbb6add09-68ed-4eef-8525-a9f9d682d152_3554x950.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!474S!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbb6add09-68ed-4eef-8525-a9f9d682d152_3554x950.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!474S!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbb6add09-68ed-4eef-8525-a9f9d682d152_3554x950.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!474S!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbb6add09-68ed-4eef-8525-a9f9d682d152_3554x950.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!474S!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbb6add09-68ed-4eef-8525-a9f9d682d152_3554x950.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Quite amazingly, MasterCard added almost zero additional expense from 2005 to 2010 ($2.5bn vs. $2.8bn). In the meantime, revenue grew by $2.6bn. As a result, Mastercard generated in operating income in 2010 ($2.8bn) almost as much as it generated in revenue in 2005 ($2.9bn). </p><p>While I&#8217;d bet many analysts at the time of MasterCard&#8217;s IPO might have correctly forecasted its 5-year forward revenue CAGR within a tight-ish band, there&#8217;s no way anybody would have done the same on margins. Even the Morningstar analyst that Dorsey thought was &#8220;nuts&#8221; was likely way short of the mark. The figures are hard for me to believe, even staring at them today.</p><p>But I think the point is, though, that no one is really to blame. Margin expansion like this rarely happens, so you shouldn&#8217;t expect it. Further, even if you did expect it, sticking your neck out too far, as Dorsey says, entails career/reputational risk that is scary and unnecessary. </p><p>So for the discerning analyst, situations may persist where high-leverage businesses are priced for strong-but-not-dramatic operating leverage, but where fat tail probabilities exist for the latter.</p><div class="subscription-widget-wrap-editor" data-attrs="{&quot;url&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/subscribe?&quot;,&quot;text&quot;:&quot;Subscribe&quot;,&quot;language&quot;:&quot;en&quot;}" data-component-name="SubscribeWidgetToDOM"><div class="subscription-widget show-subscribe"><div class="preamble"><p class="cta-caption">Thanks for reading Lewistown Capital! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work.</p></div><form class="subscription-widget-subscribe"><input type="email" class="email-input" name="email" placeholder="Type your email&#8230;" tabindex="-1"><input type="submit" class="button primary" value="Subscribe"><div class="fake-input-wrapper"><div class="fake-input"></div><div class="fake-button"></div></div></form></div></div>]]></content:encoded></item><item><title><![CDATA[Revisiting Veeva #1]]></title><description><![CDATA[Updated Thoughts on Veeva's AI Opportunity, Commercial Business]]></description><link>https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/p/revisiting-veeva</link><guid isPermaLink="false">https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/p/revisiting-veeva</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[Ryan Seawell]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2025 12:30:45 GMT</pubDate><enclosure url="https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ED1h!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F07f4178a-9e7b-4ab4-8f8a-634474122eb3_669x490.png" length="0" type="image/jpeg"/><content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Disclaimers: I own Veeva shares; this is not investment advice</em></p><div><hr></div><p>I had a chance to regroup on Veeva over the last few days after <a href="/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/p/veev-veeva-systems?r=47puj4">writing up</a> the business back in June. Some updated thoughts:</p><p><em>Veeva is going to benefit from AI </em></p><p>&#8220;Duh,&#8221; you say. And yes, most people aren&#8217;t going to argue with this. </p><p>But at the same time, I&#8217;m not sure this is fully appreciated by the market. One could see how this might be the case: (1) AI revenues still haven&#8217;t hit yet (at all) for Veeva, (2) Veeva&#8217;s first agentic offerings will be rolling out in CRM, which is an area of more dubious AI utility, and (3) Veeva&#8217;s general ethos is under-promise/over-deliver and they don&#8217;t make a lot of grand AI statements (other than this<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-1" href="#footnote-1" target="_self">1</a> one, which was pretty grand).</p><p>But over the last couple of quarters, some of Veeva&#8217;s opportunities in AI have come more into focus. This is because management has been somewhat spelling them out for us. And after a little digging, one can see that some of these opportunities seem pretty straightforward and meaningful. I also think they will hit a bit quicker than I had originally anticipated.</p><ul><li><p>Safety. Veeva sells a Safety suite that its customers use to monitor the safety of their drugs post clinical trial approval &#8212; a practice known as &#8220;pharmacovigilance&#8221; (PV). This process involves a great deal of &#8220;<a href="https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5654220/">case processing</a>&#8221; of adverse events &#8212; i.e. something happens to a patient taking a drug, and it must be documented (in a case record with a set of info) and potentially investigated. Case processing involves a lot of outsourced labor sorting through unstructured data (emails, EHRs, etc.) to put together case records for review and to form judgements around causality. The entire outsourced PV market is roughly $6bn today (and is projected to double to $12bn by 2030), with 60-70% of that spend going to &#8220;case processing.&#8221; Here is a breakdown of the outsourced PV spend:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ED1h!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F07f4178a-9e7b-4ab4-8f8a-634474122eb3_669x490.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ED1h!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F07f4178a-9e7b-4ab4-8f8a-634474122eb3_669x490.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ED1h!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F07f4178a-9e7b-4ab4-8f8a-634474122eb3_669x490.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ED1h!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F07f4178a-9e7b-4ab4-8f8a-634474122eb3_669x490.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ED1h!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F07f4178a-9e7b-4ab4-8f8a-634474122eb3_669x490.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ED1h!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F07f4178a-9e7b-4ab4-8f8a-634474122eb3_669x490.png" width="669" height="490" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/07f4178a-9e7b-4ab4-8f8a-634474122eb3_669x490.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:490,&quot;width&quot;:669,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:150875,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:false,&quot;topImage&quot;:true,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/181180659?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F07f4178a-9e7b-4ab4-8f8a-634474122eb3_669x490.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ED1h!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F07f4178a-9e7b-4ab4-8f8a-634474122eb3_669x490.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ED1h!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F07f4178a-9e7b-4ab4-8f8a-634474122eb3_669x490.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ED1h!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F07f4178a-9e7b-4ab4-8f8a-634474122eb3_669x490.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ED1h!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F07f4178a-9e7b-4ab4-8f8a-634474122eb3_669x490.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" fetchpriority="high"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Case processing seems clearly ripe for AI (as do the other areas listed above, frankly). Here is Veeva management highlighting the opportunity last quarter.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-2" href="#footnote-2" target="_self">2</a> While Veeva has only 5 of the top 20 pharmas on its Safety suite today, it&#8217;s an area where Veeva is gaining ground quickly (and it&#8217;s an area where a customer&#8217;s entire safety operation will flip to Veeva overnight &#8212; it&#8217;s not a gradual migration like in EDC, say). If the AI revenue opportunity in PV amounts to just 10% of the ~$10bn outsourced PV market, that&#8217;s a ~$1bn opportunity. And it would be an offering that, in theory, customers should aggressively adopt (as it would offer the potential for huge cost savings). This use-case alone would be a significant needle mover for Veeva, which currently generates ~$3bn in total revenue. </p></li><li><p>eTMF. Veeva sells an eTMF document management product (eTMF stands for electronic (Clinical) Trial Master File). The eTMF is a collection of documents (like trial protocols, consent forms, investigator brochures, safety reports, site-specific documents) that allow regulators to assess a clinical trial&#8217;s conduct and data quality. The process of building an eTMF requires a lot of manual processing as well like (1) collecting documents from various stakeholders, (2) manually reviewing each document to classify/index/assign metadata, (3) manually reviewing each document to check for completeness/quality/accuracy, and (4) properly filing/archiving/managing version control. This is an area that also seems quite ripe for AI. Here is management again spelling it out for us on recent calls.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-3" href="#footnote-3" target="_self">3</a><a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-4" href="#footnote-4" target="_self">4</a><a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-5" href="#footnote-5" target="_self">5</a> The global outsourced TMF labor market alone is estimated to be $1.5-2.5bn annually. Assuming just 10% of this market converts to AI revenue, this would represent another $150-250m of opportunity. And within eTMF, Veeva counts all 20 of the top 20 pharmas as customers. </p></li></ul><p>While I don&#8217;t know if the AI use-cases above begin to have an impact in 2026 or 2028 or later, I&#8217;m almost 100% sure they will have an impact at some point and be meaningful.</p><p>And these are just two examples. Veeva&#8217;s aggregate opportunity in AI is obviously much larger &#8212; after all, the Veeva suite spans over 50 applications across the entire commercial and development functions of pharma companies (i.e. sales, marketing, customer support, clinical ops, clinical data, regulatory, safety, quality). Other potential AI applications that I put in my original write-up on Veeva (Safety Signal, Regulatory Content Writer, Clinical Trial &#8220;Co-Pilot,&#8221; CRM &#8220;Co-Pilot&#8221;) I would still expect Veeva to execute on, amongst many others. Just the fact that something called the CRO industry exists (which is a labor-intensive set of outsourced R&amp;D services for pharma companies), and that it&#8217;s enormous (projected to be a ~$125bn industry by 2030) might be all that one needs to gain comfort that there is much to do.</p><p>As a side note, another perhaps underrated aspect of Veeva&#8217;s AI offerings is that they shouldn&#8217;t have to deal with much competition. Other potential competitors aren&#8217;t in the workflows, don&#8217;t have access to the data and would have to overcome extreme regulatory hurdles + ultra-high conservatism from buyers (around systems that deal with Safety, etc.) just to compete. </p><p><em>I&#8217;m not worried about the commercial business</em></p><p>Veeva traded down ~20% post Q3&#8217;FY26 earnings partially as a result of losing another top 20 pharma CRM customer to Salesforce (making it 4 losses total) as part of transitioning its CRM from Salesforce&#8217;s Force.com platform to it&#8217;s own &#8220;Vault&#8221; platform. This transition meant Veeva had to &#8220;re-win&#8221; all of its CRM customers and migrate them all onto this new platform &#8212; a process that started in 2022 and won&#8217;t be fully completed until 2030. By losing 4 top 20s, Veeva&#8217;s count of top 20s will drop from 18 to 14 in CRM.</p><p>It&#8217;s not ideal, but it&#8217;s also not detrimental by any means. CRM is just 20% of revenue at this point, and so losing a few large customers in that line isn&#8217;t going to make a huge dent (call it ~$60m of lost revenue on a base of $3bn, or ~2% of total revenue). And the losses will happen gradually over time. </p><p>Also, Veeva never fails to mention on calls that these lost customers can be (and that some probably will be) won back. The process of fully transitioning to Salesforce will be long/protracted (extending through 2028-2029 or longer) and will happen in select geos/brands at first before any kind of enterprise-wide roll-out. It will require a lot of custom development work (Salesforce doesn&#8217;t have a life science CRM product today) which is risky and oftentimes doesn&#8217;t go well. In the meantime, while Salesforce is focused on just building a CRM, Veeva&#8217;s entire commercial suite will advance, will develop seamless integrations with IQVIA (something it didn&#8217;t have before) and will offer an increasingly large set of new AI capabilities tailor-made for life sciences. So I&#8217;d say the likely case is that 1-2 of these lost customers actually come back. Further, below the top 20, Veeva&#8217;s win rate in CRM is much higher &#8212; these customers simply don&#8217;t have the risk appetite to take on custom-build projects.</p><p>For the customers that do transition to Vault CRM, Veeva can now cross-sell a new marketing offering, a new customer service offering and new AI offerings (all of which Veeva couldn&#8217;t offer while on the Force.com platform). Veeva can now also target MedTech customers in CRM, a significant opportunity (MedTech represents 1/4th of the life science industry). These forces will create a new tailwind for the commercial business going forward.</p><p>Lastly, management reaffirmed its $6bn revenue target by CY30 on its latest earnings call<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-6" href="#footnote-6" target="_self">6</a><a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-7" href="#footnote-7" target="_self">7</a>, likely on account of (1) the strong continued momentum in Crossix, (2) the continued strength of Veeva&#8217;s R&amp;D suite and (3) perhaps some comfort that AI will be a contributor to revenue in future years.</p><p><em>Other notes</em></p><ul><li><p>IQVIA partnership. IQVIA (the leading life sciences data provider) and Veeva settled their almost decade-long dispute in August. This seems like a positive development for both Veeva and IQVIA. I don&#8217;t think it limits too materially Veeva&#8217;s own data opportunity (e.g. Compass) &#8212; Veeva is still pursuing this just as aggressively. But it (1) helps cement Veeva&#8217;s position in commercial (it resolves a big issue with Veeva CRM which was that IQVIA data couldn&#8217;t be fed into it seamlessly), (2) allows for IQVIA&#8217;s CRO (the largest in the world) to use Veeva products (not an insignificant development), and (3) opens up some incremental revenue opportunities for Veeva (e.g. Veeva Nitro, which could be as big of an opportunity as Veeva&#8217;s other CRM add-on products, per management). </p></li><li><p>Crossix. Management seems to have gotten even more bullish on Crossix in recent quarters. It seems the shift to digital marketing (through channels like Doximity, OpenEvidence) is now fully underway for the pharma industry, and Crossix is the platform of choice for spend measurement &amp; optimization.</p></li></ul><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;Crossix is becoming more of a standard&#8230;that&#8217;s going to be a well-growing business for us. You should think of that as a well-growing business for the foreseeable future, 3, 4, 5 years type of thing.&#8221;</em> &#8212; Q3&#8217;FY26 earnings</p></blockquote><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;It&#8217;s not unforeseen that Crossix [could] be as big as the whole CRM suite by 2030.&#8221;</em> &#8212; Q3&#8217;FY26 earnings</p></blockquote><ul><li><p>LIMS. Veeva won its first top 20 LIMS customer in Q3&#8217;FY26, which was a nice development.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-8" href="#footnote-8" target="_self">8</a> LIMS is a large category &#8212; I estimate in the neighborhood of $1bn.</p></li></ul><div><hr></div><p>The next couple of years should be exciting for Veeva. Over the course of 2026, Veeva will introduce AI capabilities inside of each of its applications in a phased rollout. By 2027, my hope is we&#8217;ll start to see some meaningful AI revenue contribution.</p><p>Further, I think there&#8217;s a reasonable chance that some of Veeva&#8217;s AI products will be powerful enough that they spur more rapid market share gains in Veeva&#8217;s &#8220;legacy&#8221; software offerings (while also contributing separately as consumption-based revenue).<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-9" href="#footnote-9" target="_self">9</a> If you are a large pharma company and your rival is eliminating half of its outsourced PV expense through Veeva&#8217;s safety suite, how could you justify not adopting Veeva? For any of these AI solutions to work, in fact, a customer needs to be on modern cloud software &#8212; many of the legacy point solutions that still exist across R&amp;D today (and that Veeva is displacing) are not that.</p><p>In all, Veeva&#8217;s downside continues to seem relatively limited while it&#8217;s upside potential, in my eyes, has grown. The recent weakness in the stock seems like a good opportunity to add, which I&#8217;ve been doing.</p><div class="subscription-widget-wrap-editor" data-attrs="{&quot;url&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/subscribe?&quot;,&quot;text&quot;:&quot;Subscribe&quot;,&quot;language&quot;:&quot;en&quot;}" data-component-name="SubscribeWidgetToDOM"><div class="subscription-widget show-subscribe"><div class="preamble"><p class="cta-caption">Thanks for reading Lewistown Capital! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work.</p></div><form class="subscription-widget-subscribe"><input type="email" class="email-input" name="email" placeholder="Type your email&#8230;" tabindex="-1"><input type="submit" class="button primary" value="Subscribe"><div class="fake-input-wrapper"><div class="fake-input"></div><div class="fake-button"></div></div></form></div></div><div><hr></div><h2><strong>Important Disclaimer</strong></h2><p>This post is intended for informational purposes only and you, the reader, should not make any financial, investment, or trading decisions based upon the author&#8217;s commentary.</p><p>Although the information set forth above has been obtained or derived from sources believed to be reliable, the author does not make any representation or warranty, express or implied, as to the information&#8217;s accuracy or completeness, nor does the author recommend that the above information serve as the basis of any investment decision.</p><p>Before investing in a security, readers should carefully consider their financial positions and risk tolerances to determine if such a stock selection is appropriate. At any time, the author may trade in or out of any securities that are mentioned in the report as long or short positions in his portfolio without disclosing this information.</p><p>This report&#8217;s estimated fundamental value only represents a best efforts estimate of the potential fundamental valuation of a specific security, and is not expressed as, or implied as, assessments of the quality of a security or an actionable investment strategy for an investor.</p><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-1" href="#footnote-anchor-1" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">1</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;I&#8217;m very bullish about what Veeva can bring with AI for the life sciences industry. <strong>I think if you look over the next 3, 4, 5 years out to 2030, I think Veeva can help increase life sciences efficiency by 15% or so with Veeva AI.</strong> That&#8217;s a huge number when you look at that. So I really think it will be a step change.&#8221; <em>&#8212; Q1&#8217;FY26 earnings</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-2" href="#footnote-anchor-2" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">2</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;Well, I think our customers are -- they&#8217;re looking for practical solutions now, right? They&#8217;re looking for solutions that can add value rapidly sort of getting out of this experimentation phase&#8230;And they know where Veeva can help them is helping to automate industry-specific applications with AI, that deep domain knowledge and the business process consulting around it&#8230;<strong>How do you dramatically increase the efficiency of Safety case processing for adverse events, okay?</strong> That&#8217;s very specific. So that&#8217;s what they&#8217;re looking to us for, and that&#8217;s what [we&#8217;ll] deliver. That&#8217;s what we specialize [in]. In terms of what they would like differently, just like everybody else, can this be robust and proven and working tomorrow for our cases? And <strong>so they just want us to go faster, but there&#8217;s really rampant alignment on [the] direction. Veeva is setting out to do exactly what they want Veeva to do. We just have to get there.</strong>&#8221; <em>&#8212; Q3&#8217;FY26 earnings</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-3" href="#footnote-anchor-3" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">3</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;If you look at a clinical trial master file, agentic AI is going to be pretty good at putting a document where it should go and telling you if you have all the documentation you need for that trial based on the protocol. And is any document blurry? Is any document eligible, et cetera? It&#8217;s going to be really darn good at that stuff.&#8221; &#8212; <em>Q2&#8217;FY26 earnings</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-4" href="#footnote-anchor-4" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">4</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;So when we talk about in the TMF area, where we have 20 out of the top 20 using our TMF, <strong>we have a goal internally about to see if we can reduce the processing and the outsourced labor needed in and around the TMF by 50% in the industry</strong>. That&#8217;s a very, very aggressive goal.&#8221; <em>&#8212; Q2&#8217;FY26 earnings</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-5" href="#footnote-anchor-5" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">5</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;So there&#8217;s a lot of manual labor that needs to happen in the clinical trials process. So in taking documents, classifying what a document looks like, verifying that the accuracy of a document is what it should be. Getting information from the source of a patient in a clinical trial that needs to be entered into a system and validating that it&#8217;s &#8212; is the blood pressure range, is it an accurate range that or is it something that&#8217;s not even humanly possible, right So that is done today by humans. And it&#8217;s very manual.&#8221; <em>&#8212; Raymond James conference, Dec-25</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-6" href="#footnote-anchor-6" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">6</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>Andrew DeGasperi (Analyst)</p><p>&#8220;I wanted to ask the top 20 CRM question in a different way, in particular, how it relates to your 2030 targets. I know you mentioned that it doesn&#8217;t impact that -- your capability to reach it. And I was just wondering why is that the case. Is it because you either -- the sort of lower expectations is mostly tied to a very small number of clients that have decided to go a different way, like 1 or 2? Or is it a factor of -- that you have these other Vault CRM customers that are smaller, the 100-plus that you&#8217;ve listed that could be also contributing and offsetting some of that potential weakness you would see in that business?&#8221;</p><p>Brian Van Wagener (CFO)</p><p>&#8220;Andrew, this is Brian. I&#8217;ll take this one. So when you step back, there are a few things, some of which you touched on. One is that the top 20 is certainly not the entirety of the CRM market. And you heard Peter speak to the fact that overall business is very healthy. We&#8217;ve got enterprise customers, SMB customers. We still expect to win the vast majority of customers to retain that. We will have the opportunity to win some of these customers back, and we think that&#8217;s likely to come through.</p><p>And then the third and probably the biggest one is that this is a diverse business. It&#8217;s not only a CRM business. CRM suite is about 20% of total revenue today. So the other 80% is continuing to perform really well. It&#8217;s growing well, and there were always multiple paths to 2030. <strong>And so when we step back and look at the progress that we&#8217;re making, we feel very good about the progress and how we&#8217;re tracking out to the 2030 goals.</strong>&#8221; &#8212; <em>Q3&#8217;FY26 earnings</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-7" href="#footnote-anchor-7" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">7</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;I would say the main thing, and this is the hardest one for us to communicate is what Paul mentioned earlier around that growth being so broad based. That&#8217;s what gives me a lot of confidence as a leader in the company, and I think would give me confidence as an investor is that it&#8217;s a portfolio approach to the business. So when I started in 2017, it was 15 products. Now it&#8217;s 50. It will absolutely be more over time. And what that means is that there&#8217;s not any one product that the future of the company hinges on.</p><p>And so when we look at it, this year, for example, you&#8217;ve had Crossix running above our expectations. There&#8217;s going to be a product every year that&#8217;s above expectations. There will probably be one that&#8217;s behind expectations, but we&#8217;ve got that benefit of the portfolio. And so many products that are entering that very steep phase of adoption, that it&#8217;s really about the execution against the opportunity in front of us.</p><p><strong>When we released those goals, I think they were a little bit surprising to some people because it meant really sustaining a level of growth that we&#8217;ve been sort of working our way down towards. But I think what gives us the conviction in it is there&#8217;s so many big products that still have a long way to go. There&#8217;s QMS, there&#8217;s RTSM. There&#8217;s EDC, which still has a lot of growth yet to come. There&#8217;s safety, which we think is at the inflection point. There&#8217;s Crossix.</strong> There&#8217;s a lot of business left to execute on. And so for us, it&#8217;s really heads down and focused on the execution.&#8221; <em>&#8212; Citi conference, Sep-25</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-8" href="#footnote-anchor-8" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">8</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;We announced that early customer in LIMS, Laboratory Information Management. That&#8217;s used to test the medicine as it&#8217;s being manufactured. And that&#8217;s a growth area because there&#8217;s new manufacturing plants being built because of -- for a variety of reasons, let alone political reasons, et cetera. So new manufacturing plants being built and the medicine and the manufacturing of these medicines is becoming more expensive and more complicated. <strong>And there, there&#8217;s 2 main solutions used out in that area, and they&#8217;re both on-premise hosted solutions that are not modern, critically important, but not modern.</strong></p><p>So we have a real greenfield opportunity there. If you look at life sciences, they will -- generally, they will research and find a molecule. They will run clinical trials. They will commercialize the product. But along the way, before they put that medicine even in the first human, they have to manufacture it first in a small volume and then in the large volume.</p><p>And so that manufacturing area is critically important, and you&#8217;re manufacturing something that&#8217;s going to be either ingested by a human or put right into the bloodstream. So it&#8217;s super important how you do that. So it&#8217;s a great growing area for us, Quality in the manufacturing space.&#8221; <em>&#8212; Q3&#8217;FY26 earnings</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-9" href="#footnote-anchor-9" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">9</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>Brian Peterson (Analyst)</p><p>&#8220;Thanks, guys. So I don&#8217;t know who wants to take this, but I&#8217;d love to understand as AI and agentic functionality comes into the development cloud, what can that do to modernize applications that may still be on legacy or may still be on greenfield where that may drive people to a cloud refresh? And I guess if that is going to happen, where would we see that across the portfolio? Any thoughts there?&#8221;</p><p>Peter Gassner (CEO)</p><p>&#8220;I can take that one. I don&#8217;t think AI can do very well in modernizing legacy applications. I think that you need a current application, a good application with the right business rules. So will it drive some upgrade cycles? Potentially. Potentially, it could do that. So for example, I could see that happening in the pharmacovigilance area, right? That area has been a little bit slow to change.</p><p>So I could see that happening there over time. I could see it driving people to a more integrated clinical environment as well. If we have an AI agent for a clinical research associate that has to use a modern -- they want to use a modern CTMS, they have to get into the EDC system, it&#8217;s going to be better if that&#8217;s all connected by a common AI.</p><p>So I think those are the types of things that we&#8217;ll see. They might want to connect the business process from the regulatory system to the quality management system. Well, if you&#8217;re on a legacy quality management system or legacy laboratory information system, it&#8217;s harder to get the data out. <strong>So I do think it will cause modernization. Now not dramatically, not all at once, but I think it will happen over time</strong>.&#8221; <em>&#8212; &#8216;25 Veeva investor day</em></p></div></div>]]></content:encoded></item><item><title><![CDATA[[$MNDY] Monday.com]]></title><description><![CDATA[The Power of the Platform]]></description><link>https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/p/mondaycom-mndy</link><guid isPermaLink="false">https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/p/mondaycom-mndy</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[Ryan Seawell]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2025 15:32:15 GMT</pubDate><enclosure url="https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!9v9O!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fee965706-9130-4ec5-8e64-2fb65511ae21_1989x1265.png" length="0" type="image/jpeg"/><content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Disclaimer: This is not investment advice</em></p><div><hr></div><p>Monday.com is many things to many people.</p><p>It&#8217;s a task/process management tool. It&#8217;s also a CRM. It has a Dev offering. It has a Service offering. It&#8217;s an offering for SMBs, mostly. But it&#8217;s also a tool for the Fortune 100 (its largest customer has 80k seats). It serves tech customers. But mostly it serves non-tech customers (70% of revenue is spread across 200+ non-tech business verticals). It has customers in 200+ countries, with about half its revenue coming from outside North America. Did I mention it has over 250k customers?</p><p>Being many things to many people, however, is not something I generally look for in an investment. I would say most investors tend to look for the opposite &#8212; a business with great strength in a niche. </p><p>Further, Monday&#8217;s primary offering &#8212; task/work management &#8212; isn&#8217;t considered particularly sticky, as far as software goes. It&#8217;s not vertical SaaS or an SoR provider in an area like ERP, CRM, etc. It&#8217;s not the worst thing to move from one project management tool like a Trello or an Asana to another. Morningstar went so far as to list Monday as a &#8220;no moat&#8221; company (in Sep-25 it was upgraded to &#8220;narrow&#8221; moat). Here&#8217;s another way to put it with a little more vitriol:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!6NPZ!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F5b41b37a-dd17-4b49-a81f-9bc126a80bdf_456x272.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!6NPZ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F5b41b37a-dd17-4b49-a81f-9bc126a80bdf_456x272.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!6NPZ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F5b41b37a-dd17-4b49-a81f-9bc126a80bdf_456x272.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!6NPZ!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F5b41b37a-dd17-4b49-a81f-9bc126a80bdf_456x272.png" width="528" height="314.94736842105266" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/5b41b37a-dd17-4b49-a81f-9bc126a80bdf_456x272.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:272,&quot;width&quot;:456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:528,&quot;bytes&quot;:38608,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:false,&quot;topImage&quot;:true,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F5b41b37a-dd17-4b49-a81f-9bc126a80bdf_456x272.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!6NPZ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F5b41b37a-dd17-4b49-a81f-9bc126a80bdf_456x272.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!6NPZ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F5b41b37a-dd17-4b49-a81f-9bc126a80bdf_456x272.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!6NPZ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F5b41b37a-dd17-4b49-a81f-9bc126a80bdf_456x272.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!6NPZ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F5b41b37a-dd17-4b49-a81f-9bc126a80bdf_456x272.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" fetchpriority="high"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Nonetheless, I am intrigued by Monday. </p><p>I am intrigued because (1) it does all these many things in a surprisingly hyper-efficient manner and (2) Monday is still able to create real differentiation despite a lack of &#8220;nichey-ness.&#8221;</p><div><hr></div><p><em>Hyper-Efficient</em></p><p>Monday is surprisingly efficient. It has best-in-class gross margins of ~90%. It has a very efficient R&amp;D function at ~22% of revenue, despite a relatively small scale and an expansive product offering. It launched CRM, Dev, and Service &#8212; three major new categories &#8212; in the span of three years. It launched its initial CRM offering using a team of just four developers and its initial Dev offering with a team of just three. Oh and Monday&#8217;s on track to generate $1bn+ in free cash flow from 2023-2026 vs. an enterprise value of ~$6bn today.</p><p><em>Real Differentiation</em></p><p>Monday differentiates through the best-in-class flexibility of its solutions. Monday is able to offer this flexibility in each of its solutions, because each solution (Work Mgmt, CRM, Dev, Service) is built as a &#8220;thin layer&#8221; of code atop its core platform, and Monday&#8217;s core platform is highly flexible. The platform is built to act like a modular set of building blocks &#8212; easily customizable into whatever a customer needs. </p><div><hr></div><p>A company that can be many things to many people &#8212; but that does it (1) very efficiently and (2) while creating real differentiation &#8212; is actually kind of great?? </p><p>This is a company that&#8217;s done this:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!9v9O!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fee965706-9130-4ec5-8e64-2fb65511ae21_1989x1265.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!9v9O!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fee965706-9130-4ec5-8e64-2fb65511ae21_1989x1265.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!9v9O!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fee965706-9130-4ec5-8e64-2fb65511ae21_1989x1265.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!9v9O!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fee965706-9130-4ec5-8e64-2fb65511ae21_1989x1265.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!9v9O!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fee965706-9130-4ec5-8e64-2fb65511ae21_1989x1265.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!9v9O!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fee965706-9130-4ec5-8e64-2fb65511ae21_1989x1265.png" width="1456" height="926" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/ee965706-9130-4ec5-8e64-2fb65511ae21_1989x1265.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:926,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:131058,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fee965706-9130-4ec5-8e64-2fb65511ae21_1989x1265.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!9v9O!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fee965706-9130-4ec5-8e64-2fb65511ae21_1989x1265.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!9v9O!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fee965706-9130-4ec5-8e64-2fb65511ae21_1989x1265.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!9v9O!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fee965706-9130-4ec5-8e64-2fb65511ae21_1989x1265.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!9v9O!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fee965706-9130-4ec5-8e64-2fb65511ae21_1989x1265.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>And this:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!nv7b!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffee50b71-9e5f-43b6-b5ef-337315dd81fb_4116x2585.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!nv7b!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffee50b71-9e5f-43b6-b5ef-337315dd81fb_4116x2585.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!nv7b!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffee50b71-9e5f-43b6-b5ef-337315dd81fb_4116x2585.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!nv7b!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffee50b71-9e5f-43b6-b5ef-337315dd81fb_4116x2585.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!nv7b!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffee50b71-9e5f-43b6-b5ef-337315dd81fb_4116x2585.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!nv7b!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffee50b71-9e5f-43b6-b5ef-337315dd81fb_4116x2585.png" width="1456" height="914" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/fee50b71-9e5f-43b6-b5ef-337315dd81fb_4116x2585.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:914,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:832493,&quot;alt&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffee50b71-9e5f-43b6-b5ef-337315dd81fb_4116x2585.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" title="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!nv7b!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffee50b71-9e5f-43b6-b5ef-337315dd81fb_4116x2585.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!nv7b!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffee50b71-9e5f-43b6-b5ef-337315dd81fb_4116x2585.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!nv7b!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffee50b71-9e5f-43b6-b5ef-337315dd81fb_4116x2585.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!nv7b!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffee50b71-9e5f-43b6-b5ef-337315dd81fb_4116x2585.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p><em>(Overall NRR has increased meaningfully over time, if we exclude COVID-impacted 2021-2022)</em></p><p>And this:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!_pR9!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F889287a1-d710-4e4c-919c-88945e53c3b7_990x551.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!_pR9!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F889287a1-d710-4e4c-919c-88945e53c3b7_990x551.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!_pR9!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F889287a1-d710-4e4c-919c-88945e53c3b7_990x551.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!_pR9!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F889287a1-d710-4e4c-919c-88945e53c3b7_990x551.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!_pR9!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F889287a1-d710-4e4c-919c-88945e53c3b7_990x551.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!_pR9!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F889287a1-d710-4e4c-919c-88945e53c3b7_990x551.png" width="990" height="551" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/889287a1-d710-4e4c-919c-88945e53c3b7_990x551.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:551,&quot;width&quot;:990,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:111456,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F889287a1-d710-4e4c-919c-88945e53c3b7_990x551.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!_pR9!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F889287a1-d710-4e4c-919c-88945e53c3b7_990x551.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!_pR9!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F889287a1-d710-4e4c-919c-88945e53c3b7_990x551.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!_pR9!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F889287a1-d710-4e4c-919c-88945e53c3b7_990x551.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!_pR9!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F889287a1-d710-4e4c-919c-88945e53c3b7_990x551.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>And at its current price, Monday trades at a huge outlier multiple vs. its fundamentals (see below EV/ NTM gross profit vs. Rule of X across the software universe):</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!u5tj!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fec6e10aa-8974-4b8b-b4f7-6510fb5f1f5e_3750x1564.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!u5tj!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fec6e10aa-8974-4b8b-b4f7-6510fb5f1f5e_3750x1564.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!u5tj!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fec6e10aa-8974-4b8b-b4f7-6510fb5f1f5e_3750x1564.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!u5tj!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fec6e10aa-8974-4b8b-b4f7-6510fb5f1f5e_3750x1564.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!u5tj!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fec6e10aa-8974-4b8b-b4f7-6510fb5f1f5e_3750x1564.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!u5tj!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fec6e10aa-8974-4b8b-b4f7-6510fb5f1f5e_3750x1564.png" width="1456" height="607" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/ec6e10aa-8974-4b8b-b4f7-6510fb5f1f5e_3750x1564.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:607,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:704275,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fec6e10aa-8974-4b8b-b4f7-6510fb5f1f5e_3750x1564.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!u5tj!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fec6e10aa-8974-4b8b-b4f7-6510fb5f1f5e_3750x1564.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!u5tj!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fec6e10aa-8974-4b8b-b4f7-6510fb5f1f5e_3750x1564.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!u5tj!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fec6e10aa-8974-4b8b-b4f7-6510fb5f1f5e_3750x1564.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!u5tj!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fec6e10aa-8974-4b8b-b4f7-6510fb5f1f5e_3750x1564.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><div><hr></div><p><em>Yes, Yes &#8212; But What About AI?</em></p><p>I can understand that all of the above is meaningless if AI is going to significantly disrupt Monday&#8217;s business. The market is clearly particularly concerned about Monday, given where it trades (i.e. way out of line vs. fundamentals). Monday is not a SoR business nor a VMS juggernaut, qualities that would, in theory, give you a fighting chance in the AI transition. </p><p>I can understand the consternation from investors. Watch this <a href="https://youtu.be/uLHF9T1SLrU">Gemini at Work</a> showcase from Google, and Monday feels behind the times. How far will these agentic capabilities from the likes of Google go and how quickly? Can Monday really be expected to compete with Google and Microsoft, who are encroaching on Monday&#8217;s turf? For Monday, AI introduces significant uncertainty and even existential risk. So I think it&#8217;s reasonable that Monday, despite being a very healthy business today, has been relegated to &#8220;prove it&#8221; status. </p><p>However, fears of Monday&#8217;s demise are being greatly exaggerated in my opinion. In fact, I&#8217;d argue Monday is set up better than most to compete in the AI era.</p><p>Some of Monday&#8217;s AI fit + capabilities:</p><ul><li><p>Suite of solutions. Having a full set of offerings (WM, CRM, Service, Dev) is potentially quite powerful in the AI era. It should allow agents to more seamlessly perform actions across business functions and keeps customer data together in one place. Further, for many years, I believe agents will do best sitting alongside more traditional software workflows (in many/most areas), and Monday has this &#8220;scaffolding&#8221; </p></li><li><p>Healthy initial set of AI capabilities. Monday already has the bones of a fully blown AI orchestration platform. While certain elements are missing that you see from leading competitors, Monday seems to be catching up</p></li><li><p>Good product fit for AI era. Monday is the leader in Work Management, which is a natural fit for an orchestration layer. If you want a &#8220;closed/won&#8221; deal in your CRM to kick off a bunch of other processes automatically (including in other applications), Monday is one of the best tools out there today. It is digital &#8220;connective tissue&#8221; spanning an organization &#8212; tailor made for agentic applications</p></li><li><p>Good platform fit for AI era. Monday&#8217;s platform has best-in-class flexibility and shines at process management and automation. Further, it&#8217;s &#8220;schema-less&#8221; database architecture should help Monday excel as a no-code app platform </p></li><li><p>Large user base. Monday has over 250K customers. This should drive more robust feedback loops and ultimately better agentic offerings, all things equal. The products that win in AI will likely be those getting lots of usage/feedback/refinement (see Cursor, OpenEvidence). A large customer base should also drive a more dynamic marketplace of third-party agents (which Monday is introducing), which would extend Monday&#8217;s agentic capabilities</p></li><li><p>Great track record of product development. Monday seems to know how to design great products. With WM they threaded the needle between user-friendliness, high flexibility, and powerful capabilities (and emerged as the top-rated WM offering). Their CRM is highly-rated despite launching just recently and with relatively bare-bones capabilities. Like the rest of their products, Monday&#8217;s AI solutions will be designed for the non-technical user (which seems like a fruitful niche and where they could be a leading offering)</p></li></ul><p>I&#8217;m by no means crowning Monday an AI winner. But I also think Monday&#8217;s chance of success with AI is much higher than zero. In H1&#8217;26, Monday will be broadly releasing it&#8217;s agent platform, and I think at that point Monday&#8217;s AI vision will come a lot more into focus.</p><div><hr></div><p>All-in-all Monday is at a crossroads of sorts. </p><p>Pre AI, Monday seemed to be on a reasonable trajectory towards building something like a ServiceNow-lite for SMBs + mid-market, with a high-quality platform and a growing suite of offerings.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-1" href="#footnote-1" target="_self">1</a> As the AI era dawned, it put Monday in an all-out race to hit enough critical mass across its product + AI offerings so that it can withstand (and ultimately benefit from) the coming agentic wave. </p><p>Below I&#8217;ll more closely examine the case for Monday.</p><div class="subscription-widget-wrap-editor" data-attrs="{&quot;url&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/subscribe?&quot;,&quot;text&quot;:&quot;Subscribe&quot;,&quot;language&quot;:&quot;en&quot;}" data-component-name="SubscribeWidgetToDOM"><div class="subscription-widget show-subscribe"><div class="preamble"><p class="cta-caption">Thanks for reading Lewistown Capital! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work.</p></div><form class="subscription-widget-subscribe"><input type="email" class="email-input" name="email" placeholder="Type your email&#8230;" tabindex="-1"><input type="submit" class="button primary" value="Subscribe"><div class="fake-input-wrapper"><div class="fake-input"></div><div class="fake-button"></div></div></form></div></div><div><hr></div><h2>Company Overview</h2><p>Monday.com was founded in 2012 by Roy Mann and Eran Zinman as a provider of project/work management software. </p><p>From the beginning, the founders sought to create a highly flexible software platform. Their thesis was that the market didn&#8217;t need another, &#8220;better&#8221; workflow for project/work management. Rather, the founders believed that there was no one best workflow &#8212; that the best workflow for a business depended on the unique needs of that business. Thus, their solution was to empower customers with the ability to easily build/tailor their own solutions.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-2" href="#footnote-2" target="_self">2</a></p><p>Further, the founders felt a gap existed in the market between (1) SMB software, which, though attractively priced, tended to be &#8220;rigid&#8221; and (2) enterprise software, which, while much more customizable, tended to be costly &amp; painful to set up and maintain.</p><p>Monday gained initial traction with its &#8220;boards&#8221; offering in 2014. Once launched, the company leaned heavily into a product-led growth strategy focused on performance marketing and a self-serve GTM motion. While heavy performance marketing (on platforms such as Facebook and YouTube) was looked upon suspiciously by the VC/investor community, by meticulously tracking the impact of this spend, Monday was able to optimize it and grow rather efficiently. Monday also shrewdly optimized their spend around cash on cash return. As a result, Monday was able to quickly recycle cash from customers back into more marketing, which greatly accelerated growth relative to dollars raised. </p><p>From inception through their IPO in Jun-21, Monday burned ~$121m of capital to finance their operations. Monday has been cash flow positive every year since the IPO. Monday achieved this while emerging from a space that was already mature and highly competitive (project management). </p><p>Starting in 2022, the company launched three new major product categories within the span of just 3 years &#8212; CRM (2022), Dev (2022) and Service (2024). CRM, its most mature new offering, hit a $100m revenue run rate in Q2&#8217;25, just ~3 years post launch (best-in-class SaaS start-ups would do this in more like ~5-8 years). And Monday&#8217;s Service offering is actually growing faster than CRM at the same point of development.</p><p>More recently, Monday has become significantly more aggressive targeting the enterprise segment &#8212; adding enterprise level functionality, premium support offerings and a more traditional enterprise sales motion (to pair with its PLG motion). These efforts have generally been quite successful &#8212; Monday now counts ~4k customers that spend over $50K annually, up from ~500 at the time of its IPO.</p><p>Monday today has a revenue run rate of ~$1.3bn. It&#8217;s grown by ~4x since its IPO in mid 2021, representing a CAGR of ~40%.</p><div><hr></div><h2>Product Overview</h2><p>Monday was born out of the idea that prevailing SMB software was frustratingly rigid. The founders wanted empower non-technical users with the ability to easily build custom software solutions.</p><p>Thus, from the company&#8217;s inception, the Monday platform (called WorkOS) was intended to act like a set of &#8220;lego blocks,&#8221; or underlying capabilities, that users could leverage to assemble robust &#8220;product solutions:&#8221;</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!uquj!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F5ebac38c-df78-4644-817f-f71fd7e29bc6_533x599.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!uquj!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F5ebac38c-df78-4644-817f-f71fd7e29bc6_533x599.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!uquj!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F5ebac38c-df78-4644-817f-f71fd7e29bc6_533x599.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!uquj!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F5ebac38c-df78-4644-817f-f71fd7e29bc6_533x599.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!uquj!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F5ebac38c-df78-4644-817f-f71fd7e29bc6_533x599.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!uquj!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F5ebac38c-df78-4644-817f-f71fd7e29bc6_533x599.png" width="533" height="599" 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F5ebac38c-df78-4644-817f-f71fd7e29bc6_533x599.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!uquj!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F5ebac38c-df78-4644-817f-f71fd7e29bc6_533x599.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!uquj!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F5ebac38c-df78-4644-817f-f71fd7e29bc6_533x599.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!uquj!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F5ebac38c-df78-4644-817f-f71fd7e29bc6_533x599.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p><em>What are the WorkOS &#8220;Building Blocks?&#8221;</em> </p><ul><li><p>Boards. It starts with Boards, which is Monday&#8217;s core user interface. They have rows and columns like an Excel sheet. Monday calls them a combination of &#8220;a sophisticated spreadsheet and a no-code database.&#8221; It&#8217;s where you hold and process information. Users can start Boards from scratch or from using one of 150+ Board templates built for various use cases.</p><ul><li><p>Columns can include things like numbers, text, dates, locations, formulas, links to other Boards, attachments/files, tagged users, etc.</p></li><li><p>Rows, or &#8220;items,&#8221; can represent virtually anything a user chooses, including an entity, workstream or campaign. Users populate items with actions, steps, leads, contacts, or other elements of a workstream. Within an item, users can collaborate with each other, write text, attach files, tag other users, etc. Users can communicate within the updates section of the item, keeping all communication within a specific context.</p></li></ul></li><li><p>Views. Monday offers a variety of views &#8212; table, kanban, gantt, calendar, etc. These allow a Board&#8217;s contents to be visualized and interacted with in different ways</p></li><li><p>Forms. Users can capture additional data through web-based forms, including from non-Monday users. Each response can create a new item within a Board, with all of the data supplied by the recipient automatically populated in the relevant columns. Forms can be adapted to suit a variety of use cases, including ticketing and order management.</p></li><li><p>Automations. Monday&#8217;s platform can be used to easily build automations for complex workflows. Automations are triggered based on actions that occur or thresholds that are reached and can include notifications, item creation, assignment of ownership and due date, moving an item to another Board, etc. </p></li><li><p>Integrations. Integrations allow users to connect with external tools to share data, automate actions, etc. For instance, users could set an automation that when a charge event occurs in Stripe, an item is automatically created in a specified Monday Board and a user is notified via Slack. Monday offers integrations with Gmail, Outlook, Jira, Salesforce, Google Drive, Dropbox, Stripe, Slack, and Zendesk amongst many others.</p></li><li><p>Dashboards. Users can create dashboards to summarize/track/report on progress across any/all of their workstreams. </p></li><li><p>Workspaces. Users can organize and centralize Boards and dashboards using workspaces, which are defined by any category the user chooses. In large organizations, workspaces can represent a department or a team working on a project, for example. Users with workspace-level permissions can also restrict access and protect private information.</p></li></ul><p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tYeGbMwwuM">Here</a> is a short overview demonstrating the capabilities of WorkOS.</p><p>Atop these building blocks sits Monday&#8217;s product suite &#8212; Work Management, Dev, Sales and Service:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NdrQ!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa217fae7-2e47-4462-b947-da8a1f0e0c8e_1050x592.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NdrQ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa217fae7-2e47-4462-b947-da8a1f0e0c8e_1050x592.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NdrQ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa217fae7-2e47-4462-b947-da8a1f0e0c8e_1050x592.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NdrQ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa217fae7-2e47-4462-b947-da8a1f0e0c8e_1050x592.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NdrQ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa217fae7-2e47-4462-b947-da8a1f0e0c8e_1050x592.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NdrQ!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa217fae7-2e47-4462-b947-da8a1f0e0c8e_1050x592.png" width="1050" height="592" 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa217fae7-2e47-4462-b947-da8a1f0e0c8e_1050x592.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NdrQ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa217fae7-2e47-4462-b947-da8a1f0e0c8e_1050x592.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NdrQ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa217fae7-2e47-4462-b947-da8a1f0e0c8e_1050x592.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NdrQ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa217fae7-2e47-4462-b947-da8a1f0e0c8e_1050x592.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" 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y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p><em>Work Management</em></p><p>Work Management is a platform that enables teams and organizations to plan, execute, and monitor all types of work, projects, and processes.  </p><p>Work Management was introduced in 2014, and is Monday&#8217;s original and most mature offering, responsible for ~90% of Monday&#8217;s total revenue today. It can be used by 1-2 person teams all the way up to the Fortune 100 (its largest customer has ~80k seats). Currently ~42% of ARR is SMB (&lt;100 employees), ~34% is Mid-Market (100-1,500 employees) and ~24% is Enterprise (1,500+ employees).</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!mUOJ!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa69d49c0-39e2-4417-96cd-29fce434cca2_1009x563.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!mUOJ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa69d49c0-39e2-4417-96cd-29fce434cca2_1009x563.png 424w, 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa69d49c0-39e2-4417-96cd-29fce434cca2_1009x563.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!mUOJ!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa69d49c0-39e2-4417-96cd-29fce434cca2_1009x563.png" width="1009" height="563" 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa69d49c0-39e2-4417-96cd-29fce434cca2_1009x563.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!mUOJ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa69d49c0-39e2-4417-96cd-29fce434cca2_1009x563.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!mUOJ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa69d49c0-39e2-4417-96cd-29fce434cca2_1009x563.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!mUOJ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa69d49c0-39e2-4417-96cd-29fce434cca2_1009x563.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>It&#8217;s priced in the $9-19+ range, per user per month. The $12 &#8220;standard&#8221; option is highlighted as the most popular, which includes guest access, timeline/Gantt/calendar views, automations (250 actions per mo), integrations (250 actions per mo), and dashboards that can combine up to 5 boards.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!mMqR!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3b5e6c78-7eb3-4b7f-8769-d5ef62da75c4_728x511.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!mMqR!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3b5e6c78-7eb3-4b7f-8769-d5ef62da75c4_728x511.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!mMqR!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3b5e6c78-7eb3-4b7f-8769-d5ef62da75c4_728x511.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!mMqR!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3b5e6c78-7eb3-4b7f-8769-d5ef62da75c4_728x511.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!mMqR!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3b5e6c78-7eb3-4b7f-8769-d5ef62da75c4_728x511.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!mMqR!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3b5e6c78-7eb3-4b7f-8769-d5ef62da75c4_728x511.png" width="728" height="511" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/3b5e6c78-7eb3-4b7f-8769-d5ef62da75c4_728x511.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:511,&quot;width&quot;:728,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:121998,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3b5e6c78-7eb3-4b7f-8769-d5ef62da75c4_728x511.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!mMqR!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3b5e6c78-7eb3-4b7f-8769-d5ef62da75c4_728x511.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!mMqR!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3b5e6c78-7eb3-4b7f-8769-d5ef62da75c4_728x511.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!mMqR!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3b5e6c78-7eb3-4b7f-8769-d5ef62da75c4_728x511.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!mMqR!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3b5e6c78-7eb3-4b7f-8769-d5ef62da75c4_728x511.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Below is pricing for Monday&#8217;s primary competitors in WM. It&#8217;s not an apples-to-apples comparison because the functionality and tiers vary by competitor. But based on my read of functionality/tiers, I&#8217;d say Monday is priced at a slight premium to Asana and Trello, in line with ClickUp, at a slight discount to Notion (hardest to compare apple-to-apples), and at a meaningful discount to Airtable and Smartsheet.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!_pTH!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe13a4a89-948d-4399-a5e4-6cbd1d785013_2317x1627.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!_pTH!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe13a4a89-948d-4399-a5e4-6cbd1d785013_2317x1627.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!_pTH!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe13a4a89-948d-4399-a5e4-6cbd1d785013_2317x1627.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!_pTH!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe13a4a89-948d-4399-a5e4-6cbd1d785013_2317x1627.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!_pTH!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe13a4a89-948d-4399-a5e4-6cbd1d785013_2317x1627.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!_pTH!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe13a4a89-948d-4399-a5e4-6cbd1d785013_2317x1627.png" width="1456" height="1022" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/e13a4a89-948d-4399-a5e4-6cbd1d785013_2317x1627.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1022,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:248228,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe13a4a89-948d-4399-a5e4-6cbd1d785013_2317x1627.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!_pTH!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe13a4a89-948d-4399-a5e4-6cbd1d785013_2317x1627.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!_pTH!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe13a4a89-948d-4399-a5e4-6cbd1d785013_2317x1627.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!_pTH!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe13a4a89-948d-4399-a5e4-6cbd1d785013_2317x1627.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!_pTH!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe13a4a89-948d-4399-a5e4-6cbd1d785013_2317x1627.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>The product is generally very highly rated. </p><p>Gartner has Monday as the top-rated solution in both the &#8220;Adaptive Project Management&#8221; and &#8220;Collaborative Work Management&#8221; Magic Quadrant categories:</p><div class="image-gallery-embed" data-attrs="{&quot;gallery&quot;:{&quot;images&quot;:[{&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/fb6b9f8b-95b2-4668-a19e-a8d0633b4276_1983x2062.png&quot;},{&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/9fd159f5-3c53-404d-9da1-6d62095a828a_1895x2040.png&quot;}],&quot;caption&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;alt&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;staticGalleryImage&quot;:{&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/b5155261-05ff-4850-932f-76848573fa0b_1456x720.png&quot;}},&quot;isEditorNode&quot;:true}"></div><p>It also scores highly in the &#8220;Marketing Work Management&#8221; category:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!s1jL!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9995e365-c669-4edd-83bd-47820a190ec7_2076x2276.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!s1jL!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9995e365-c669-4edd-83bd-47820a190ec7_2076x2276.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!s1jL!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9995e365-c669-4edd-83bd-47820a190ec7_2076x2276.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!s1jL!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9995e365-c669-4edd-83bd-47820a190ec7_2076x2276.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!s1jL!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9995e365-c669-4edd-83bd-47820a190ec7_2076x2276.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!s1jL!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9995e365-c669-4edd-83bd-47820a190ec7_2076x2276.png" width="385" height="422.0192307692308" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/9995e365-c669-4edd-83bd-47820a190ec7_2076x2276.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1596,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:385,&quot;bytes&quot;:435590,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9995e365-c669-4edd-83bd-47820a190ec7_2076x2276.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!s1jL!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9995e365-c669-4edd-83bd-47820a190ec7_2076x2276.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!s1jL!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9995e365-c669-4edd-83bd-47820a190ec7_2076x2276.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!s1jL!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9995e365-c669-4edd-83bd-47820a190ec7_2076x2276.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!s1jL!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9995e365-c669-4edd-83bd-47820a190ec7_2076x2276.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>It&#8217;s worth noting that Monday has been working its way &#8220;up and to the right&#8221; in Gartner&#8217;s Magic Quadrants over time. Here is the Adaptive Project Management quadrant from 2022-2025. Monday just recently took over the top position in 2024.</p><div class="image-gallery-embed" data-attrs="{&quot;gallery&quot;:{&quot;images&quot;:[{&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/c239c157-dded-4a2b-a015-7727a63983ec_1482x1640.png&quot;},{&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/b79ea2c9-df25-4fac-99a9-978335715643_1538x1639.png&quot;},{&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/0c4b4ed6-5d1d-4a78-b43a-aeb7e01e2fec_1808x1925.png&quot;},{&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/ed65aeb5-560a-4b99-9915-7eb4f8ed497a_1983x2062.png&quot;}],&quot;caption&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;alt&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;staticGalleryImage&quot;:{&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/b6dbd916-9fbe-4243-bc70-6302051efaca_1456x1456.png&quot;}},&quot;isEditorNode&quot;:true}"></div><p>G2 has Monday as the highest rated solution (by satisfaction) in their Project Management category, slightly ahead of the likes of Smartsheet, Trello, Asana, Notion, etc.:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!dtqE!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbfab2a8c-7ee3-4470-ba09-838c5f012a84_3057x1537.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!dtqE!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbfab2a8c-7ee3-4470-ba09-838c5f012a84_3057x1537.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!dtqE!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbfab2a8c-7ee3-4470-ba09-838c5f012a84_3057x1537.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!dtqE!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbfab2a8c-7ee3-4470-ba09-838c5f012a84_3057x1537.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!dtqE!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbfab2a8c-7ee3-4470-ba09-838c5f012a84_3057x1537.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!dtqE!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbfab2a8c-7ee3-4470-ba09-838c5f012a84_3057x1537.png" width="1456" height="732" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/bfab2a8c-7ee3-4470-ba09-838c5f012a84_3057x1537.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:732,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:784305,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbfab2a8c-7ee3-4470-ba09-838c5f012a84_3057x1537.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!dtqE!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbfab2a8c-7ee3-4470-ba09-838c5f012a84_3057x1537.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!dtqE!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbfab2a8c-7ee3-4470-ba09-838c5f012a84_3057x1537.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!dtqE!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbfab2a8c-7ee3-4470-ba09-838c5f012a84_3057x1537.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!dtqE!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbfab2a8c-7ee3-4470-ba09-838c5f012a84_3057x1537.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>While Monday&#8217;s offering often gets lumped in with primarily project management tools like Asana and Trello, it is built to be more work/process management vs. project management (though it works just fine for project management).<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-3" href="#footnote-3" target="_self">3</a> </p><p>Below is a list of pros/cons for Monday WM based on reviews from around the web: </p><p>Strengths</p><ul><li><p>Visually Appealing. Clean &amp; colorful design, intuitive, variety of views</p></li><li><p>Customizable Workflows &amp; Templates. It&#8217;s a very flexible platform &#8212; just about everything is &#8220;drag-and-drop/editable.&#8221; Users can select from over 200 templates for various industries, functions (e.g. sales, product, marketing, HR, finance, etc.)<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-4" href="#footnote-4" target="_self">4</a></p></li><li><p>Automation &amp; Integrations. Automations are easy to generate/&#8220;no-code&#8221; using natural language. Deep integrations with tools like Slack, Google Drive, Microsoft Teams, Zoom, GitHub, Zapier, etc.</p></li><li><p>Collaboration. Great for keeping everyone on the same page. Real-time comments, file sharing, mentions, activity logs, alerts, and guest access</p></li><li><p>Scalability. Suitable for small teams up to enterprise-level organizations, with rapid pace of updates and new features</p></li></ul><p>Weaknesses</p><ul><li><p>Pricing Model. Higher priced vs. certain other project management tools (Asana, Trello), must buy in seat package increments (i.e. 3 seats, 5, seats, 10 seats, 15 seats) that can lead to paying for more seats than is needed</p></li><li><p>Learning Curve &amp; Setup Complexity. While overall intuitive, mastering custom automations, boards, dashboards, and automations can be &#8220;overwhelming,&#8221; especially for newcomers</p></li><li><p>Performance of Large Boards. Handling very large or data-heavy boards can introduce lags or slowdowns (Monday has been very focused on fixing this &#8212; more on that later)</p></li></ul><p>In terms of actual use-cases for the WM suite, Monday hasn&#8217;t disclosed this. However, at their 2025 investor day, they did disclose the breakdown of use-cases for Monday Magic, one of its AI solutions. And I imagine this is reflective of the overall use-cases for the Monday WM platform:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!iMJj!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F41ffdd00-379d-4cdc-b15c-04ba58a3b5d5_1070x595.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!iMJj!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F41ffdd00-379d-4cdc-b15c-04ba58a3b5d5_1070x595.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!iMJj!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F41ffdd00-379d-4cdc-b15c-04ba58a3b5d5_1070x595.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!iMJj!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F41ffdd00-379d-4cdc-b15c-04ba58a3b5d5_1070x595.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!iMJj!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F41ffdd00-379d-4cdc-b15c-04ba58a3b5d5_1070x595.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!iMJj!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F41ffdd00-379d-4cdc-b15c-04ba58a3b5d5_1070x595.png" width="1070" height="595" 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F41ffdd00-379d-4cdc-b15c-04ba58a3b5d5_1070x595.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!iMJj!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F41ffdd00-379d-4cdc-b15c-04ba58a3b5d5_1070x595.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!iMJj!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F41ffdd00-379d-4cdc-b15c-04ba58a3b5d5_1070x595.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!iMJj!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F41ffdd00-379d-4cdc-b15c-04ba58a3b5d5_1070x595.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>As we can see, Monday is used for a range of functions that touch all aspects of a business. While most popular are project management (16%), marketing campaign management (13%) and creative project management (10%), you also have areas like event management (5%), employee management (onboarding, HR, development; 5%), sales management (3%), finance management (3%).</p><p>Overall, Monday has said that ~40% of its Work Management users are from sales, developer or IT teams:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!k_Dk!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F610aee70-a102-40f9-8f5a-7a93cabb75f8_1025x574.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!k_Dk!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F610aee70-a102-40f9-8f5a-7a93cabb75f8_1025x574.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!k_Dk!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F610aee70-a102-40f9-8f5a-7a93cabb75f8_1025x574.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!k_Dk!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F610aee70-a102-40f9-8f5a-7a93cabb75f8_1025x574.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!k_Dk!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F610aee70-a102-40f9-8f5a-7a93cabb75f8_1025x574.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!k_Dk!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F610aee70-a102-40f9-8f5a-7a93cabb75f8_1025x574.png" width="1025" height="574" 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F610aee70-a102-40f9-8f5a-7a93cabb75f8_1025x574.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!k_Dk!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F610aee70-a102-40f9-8f5a-7a93cabb75f8_1025x574.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!k_Dk!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F610aee70-a102-40f9-8f5a-7a93cabb75f8_1025x574.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!k_Dk!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F610aee70-a102-40f9-8f5a-7a93cabb75f8_1025x574.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>According to a recent Business Breakdowns podcast with Ben Hensman (a PM from Square Peg), 12% of the customer base uses Monday for HR, 47% use it to manage clients, 14% use it for finance management and 21% use it as a ticketing system (I&#8217;m not sure where he gets these numbers).</p><p><em>Sales CRM</em></p><p>Monday Sales CRM was released in 2022 and thus represents Monday&#8217;s second most mature product. As of Q2&#8217;25, CRM was generating $100m of ARR, just ~3 years since its launch (and up from $25m of ARR as of Q4&#8217;23).</p><p>Monday CRM is suitable for just SMB to mid-market customers at this point. It&#8217;s not trying to compete against the likes of Salesforce &#8212; it lacks key functionality that would be required to target enterprise-class customers.</p><p>With ~33.5k customers and $100m of ARR as of Q2&#8217;25, Monday CRM is generating ~$3.0k of annual revenue per customer (which implies ~10 seats per customer). This is up from ~$1.9k per customer as of Q4&#8217;23 (which implies ~6 seats per customer).</p><p>Currently 74% of ARR comes from the SMB segment (&lt;100 employees), 20% from Mid-Market (100-1,500 employees) and 7% from Enterprise (1,500+ employees). CRM currently skews the most towards the SMB segment out of all of Monday&#8217;s offerings, including WM (which is ~42% SMB).</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!eDJk!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F78419153-8557-44fa-bf93-15357c2d7a1e_965x544.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!eDJk!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F78419153-8557-44fa-bf93-15357c2d7a1e_965x544.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!eDJk!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F78419153-8557-44fa-bf93-15357c2d7a1e_965x544.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!eDJk!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F78419153-8557-44fa-bf93-15357c2d7a1e_965x544.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!eDJk!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, 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data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/78419153-8557-44fa-bf93-15357c2d7a1e_965x544.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:544,&quot;width&quot;:965,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:189258,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F78419153-8557-44fa-bf93-15357c2d7a1e_965x544.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!eDJk!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F78419153-8557-44fa-bf93-15357c2d7a1e_965x544.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!eDJk!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F78419153-8557-44fa-bf93-15357c2d7a1e_965x544.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!eDJk!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F78419153-8557-44fa-bf93-15357c2d7a1e_965x544.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!eDJk!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F78419153-8557-44fa-bf93-15357c2d7a1e_965x544.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Below is a look at quarterly growth in Monday&#8217;s CRM customers. In Q2&#8217;25, customer accounts grew 61% YoY.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NZI0!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcc84669e-7d7d-45ea-982d-5bcafeb774ee_1641x1265.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NZI0!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcc84669e-7d7d-45ea-982d-5bcafeb774ee_1641x1265.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NZI0!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcc84669e-7d7d-45ea-982d-5bcafeb774ee_1641x1265.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NZI0!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcc84669e-7d7d-45ea-982d-5bcafeb774ee_1641x1265.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NZI0!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcc84669e-7d7d-45ea-982d-5bcafeb774ee_1641x1265.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NZI0!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcc84669e-7d7d-45ea-982d-5bcafeb774ee_1641x1265.png" width="636" height="490.1043956043956" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/cc84669e-7d7d-45ea-982d-5bcafeb774ee_1641x1265.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1122,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:636,&quot;bytes&quot;:97571,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcc84669e-7d7d-45ea-982d-5bcafeb774ee_1641x1265.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NZI0!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcc84669e-7d7d-45ea-982d-5bcafeb774ee_1641x1265.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NZI0!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcc84669e-7d7d-45ea-982d-5bcafeb774ee_1641x1265.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NZI0!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcc84669e-7d7d-45ea-982d-5bcafeb774ee_1641x1265.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NZI0!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcc84669e-7d7d-45ea-982d-5bcafeb774ee_1641x1265.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p><em>(Monday stopped reporting this figure in Q3&#8217;25)</em></p><p>Monday CRM is priced in the $12-28+ range, per user per month. </p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!wVnx!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fdf1d4481-6625-4da4-919e-e4bcb17bb9f4_582x668.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!wVnx!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fdf1d4481-6625-4da4-919e-e4bcb17bb9f4_582x668.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!wVnx!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fdf1d4481-6625-4da4-919e-e4bcb17bb9f4_582x668.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!wVnx!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fdf1d4481-6625-4da4-919e-e4bcb17bb9f4_582x668.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!wVnx!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fdf1d4481-6625-4da4-919e-e4bcb17bb9f4_582x668.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!wVnx!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fdf1d4481-6625-4da4-919e-e4bcb17bb9f4_582x668.png" width="582" height="668" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/df1d4481-6625-4da4-919e-e4bcb17bb9f4_582x668.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:668,&quot;width&quot;:582,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:149374,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fdf1d4481-6625-4da4-919e-e4bcb17bb9f4_582x668.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!wVnx!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fdf1d4481-6625-4da4-919e-e4bcb17bb9f4_582x668.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!wVnx!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fdf1d4481-6625-4da4-919e-e4bcb17bb9f4_582x668.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!wVnx!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fdf1d4481-6625-4da4-919e-e4bcb17bb9f4_582x668.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!wVnx!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fdf1d4481-6625-4da4-919e-e4bcb17bb9f4_582x668.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Below is pricing for Monday&#8217;s primary competitors in CRM. Dynamics &amp; Salesforce lead the way on pricing, followed by HubSpot, then Zoho/Freshworks. I&#8217;d say Monday is the cheapest option, or close to it, which is appropriate as a newer, less feature-rich offering.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!5zfz!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F343799dd-b8e5-4b33-a550-d20325a6b6ab_2317x1162.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!5zfz!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F343799dd-b8e5-4b33-a550-d20325a6b6ab_2317x1162.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!5zfz!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F343799dd-b8e5-4b33-a550-d20325a6b6ab_2317x1162.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!5zfz!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F343799dd-b8e5-4b33-a550-d20325a6b6ab_2317x1162.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!5zfz!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F343799dd-b8e5-4b33-a550-d20325a6b6ab_2317x1162.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!5zfz!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F343799dd-b8e5-4b33-a550-d20325a6b6ab_2317x1162.png" width="1456" height="730" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/343799dd-b8e5-4b33-a550-d20325a6b6ab_2317x1162.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:730,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:178164,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F343799dd-b8e5-4b33-a550-d20325a6b6ab_2317x1162.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!5zfz!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F343799dd-b8e5-4b33-a550-d20325a6b6ab_2317x1162.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!5zfz!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F343799dd-b8e5-4b33-a550-d20325a6b6ab_2317x1162.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!5zfz!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F343799dd-b8e5-4b33-a550-d20325a6b6ab_2317x1162.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!5zfz!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F343799dd-b8e5-4b33-a550-d20325a6b6ab_2317x1162.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>While Monday CRM made it into Gartner&#8217;s Magic Quadrant for CRM for the first time in 2025, as you can see below, Monday was Gartner&#8217;s lowest rated CRM.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Ulnx!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F15f262e8-d563-4c5c-a72d-98f7b6e7f552_1695x1772.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Ulnx!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F15f262e8-d563-4c5c-a72d-98f7b6e7f552_1695x1772.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Ulnx!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F15f262e8-d563-4c5c-a72d-98f7b6e7f552_1695x1772.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Ulnx!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F15f262e8-d563-4c5c-a72d-98f7b6e7f552_1695x1772.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Ulnx!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F15f262e8-d563-4c5c-a72d-98f7b6e7f552_1695x1772.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Ulnx!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F15f262e8-d563-4c5c-a72d-98f7b6e7f552_1695x1772.png" width="523" height="546.7074175824176" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/15f262e8-d563-4c5c-a72d-98f7b6e7f552_1695x1772.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1522,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:523,&quot;bytes&quot;:343765,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F15f262e8-d563-4c5c-a72d-98f7b6e7f552_1695x1772.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Ulnx!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F15f262e8-d563-4c5c-a72d-98f7b6e7f552_1695x1772.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Ulnx!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F15f262e8-d563-4c5c-a72d-98f7b6e7f552_1695x1772.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Ulnx!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F15f262e8-d563-4c5c-a72d-98f7b6e7f552_1695x1772.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Ulnx!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F15f262e8-d563-4c5c-a72d-98f7b6e7f552_1695x1772.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>G2 rates Monday CRM much more strongly, with slightly higher customer satisfaction than all of the other most prominent CRM solutions (Salesforce, HubSpot, MSFT Dynamics, etc.).</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!nmOR!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe2e211ca-7da7-406b-8d96-4c79d428bcb5_3002x1924.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!nmOR!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe2e211ca-7da7-406b-8d96-4c79d428bcb5_3002x1924.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!nmOR!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe2e211ca-7da7-406b-8d96-4c79d428bcb5_3002x1924.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!nmOR!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe2e211ca-7da7-406b-8d96-4c79d428bcb5_3002x1924.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!nmOR!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe2e211ca-7da7-406b-8d96-4c79d428bcb5_3002x1924.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!nmOR!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe2e211ca-7da7-406b-8d96-4c79d428bcb5_3002x1924.png" width="1456" height="933" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/e2e211ca-7da7-406b-8d96-4c79d428bcb5_3002x1924.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:933,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:1066432,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe2e211ca-7da7-406b-8d96-4c79d428bcb5_3002x1924.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!nmOR!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe2e211ca-7da7-406b-8d96-4c79d428bcb5_3002x1924.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!nmOR!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe2e211ca-7da7-406b-8d96-4c79d428bcb5_3002x1924.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!nmOR!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe2e211ca-7da7-406b-8d96-4c79d428bcb5_3002x1924.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!nmOR!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe2e211ca-7da7-406b-8d96-4c79d428bcb5_3002x1924.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Monday would tell you that they win in CRM the same way they win in other categories &#8212; by offering best-in-class flexibility and operating in a middle ground between customizable, but expensive options like Salesforce/Dynamics and lower-priced but rigid options like Zoho/Freshworks. </p><p>From the Dec-24 NASDAQ conference:</p><p><em>(Note that Monday management is Israeli, and they speak in a somewhat broken English, hence some of the poor grammar in the quotes that follow)</em></p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;So a good example would be that -- we started CRM and within 6 months, we went from 0 to being the top 4 in G2 Crowd in the review site, and there are hundreds of CRMs there.</em></p><p><em>And the reason because of the power of the platform that like -- and in CRM specifically, like we see a huge gap, like if you either have like rigid small CRMs and the large ones like Salesforce, where you can customize them, but it costs a lot and there is an implementation cost as well. <strong>And we&#8217;re kind of like solving that problem in the middle.</strong> It&#8217;s still very easy, very simple, but you can do anything you want. We brought something new to the -- like a trade-off. <strong>There is no trade-off</strong>.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>More quotes on why Monday wins.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-5" href="#footnote-5" target="_self">5</a><a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-6" href="#footnote-6" target="_self">6</a><a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-7" href="#footnote-7" target="_self">7</a></p><p>Here is a clip of a Monday CRM partner &#8212; CRM Crew &#8212; a former partner of Salesforce, Dynamics, Hubspot and Zoho, commenting on how much easier Monday is to manipulate than these other platforms.</p><div id="youtube2-6pVVgaapF9c" class="youtube-wrap" data-attrs="{&quot;videoId&quot;:&quot;6pVVgaapF9c&quot;,&quot;startTime&quot;:&quot;2860&quot;,&quot;endTime&quot;:null}" data-component-name="Youtube2ToDOM"><div class="youtube-inner"><iframe src="https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/6pVVgaapF9c?start=2860&amp;rel=0&amp;autoplay=0&amp;showinfo=0&amp;enablejsapi=0" frameborder="0" loading="lazy" gesture="media" allow="autoplay; fullscreen" allowautoplay="true" allowfullscreen="true" width="728" height="409"></iframe></div></div><p>Here are the Pros/Cons taken from the Gartner report:</p><blockquote><p>Strengths:</p><ul><li><p>Highly customizable no-code interface: monday CRM&#8217;s intuitive approach and drag-and-drop functionality allow teams to quickly create and adapt workflows without technical expertise, thereby improving familiarity with the solution. Its core user interface resembles adynamic spreadsheet with columns and row equivalents, also known as boards within monday.com&#8217;s features.</p></li><li><p>Ease of management: monday.com differentiates itself with competitive license fees, lean implementation and maintenance costs, and a short deployment time, all contributing to a lower total cost of ownership (TCO). The platform&#8217;s no-code automation and intuitive UI contribute to rapid deployment and high adoption, driving faster return on investment compared with more complex SFA solutions offered by other vendors evaluated in this Magic Quadrant.</p></li><li><p>Collaboration and sharing capabilities: The platform excels in collaboration features, including mutual close plans, document co-editing and granular sharing permissions (down to the cell level). These capabilities support both internal team collaboration and external partner engagement, making it suitable for partner relationship management (PRM) use cases.</p></li></ul><p>Cautions:</p><ul><li><p>Limited AI and ML depth: Despite the presence of generative AI, monday.com lacks machine learning capabilities across critical areas such as predictive lead scoring, opportunity health scoring and forecasting. All AI-requested demonstrations to Gartner were rule-based and formula-based or relied on simple prompt-driven automation using generative AI, limiting their strategic value.</p></li><li><p>Manual data entry: The platform heavily relies on manual data entry and spreadsheet-like boards. This design can become unwieldy and inefficient, especially for larger organizations managing complex sales processes. The need to predefine numerous columns and formulas adds to the setup burden.</p></li><li><p>Weak forecasting and analytics capabilities: Forecasting features are minimal to nonexistent. monday.com does not support predictive forecasting, what-if modeling and advanced analytics. Reporting is limited to simple dashboards with limited visualization options, which may not meet the needs of data-driven sales organizations.</p></li></ul></blockquote><p><em>Campaigns Module</em></p><p>In Q4&#8217;25, Monday released its &#8220;Campaigns&#8221; module for CRM. Monday Campaigns is an &#8220;AI-powered&#8221; product that helps marketers create, launch, and optimize campaigns. <a href="https://youtu.be/qq0yktlGxYg?list=PLUFbJvKN2ZucCIFAo6CAfU1MzON_BGV6g">This</a> is a nice walkthrough of its capabilities.</p><p>Key features include:</p><ul><li><p>AI-powered creation. Generate copy, explore audience segments from CRM data, and keep campaigns &#8220;on-brand&#8221;</p></li><li><p>Drag-and-drop email builder. Build professional campaigns with no coding required</p></li><li><p>Intelligent automation. Trigger personalized campaigns from CRM updates and customer actions</p></li><li><p>Optimal timing. Send at the best times for maximum impact</p></li><li><p>Segmented audiences. Target the right customers with precision list management</p></li></ul><p>Campaigns is designed to integrate deeply with Monday:</p><ul><li><p>With Monday CRM. Campaign performance and lead conversion tracking live in one place, giving teams a complete view of the customer journey, from lead to customer</p></li><li><p>With Monday Work Management. Campaign planning, briefs, approvals, and creative execution connect seamlessly to day-to-day workflows, ensuring marketing aligns with wider business goals</p></li></ul><p>One of the largest contingents of Work Management users are marketing personnel. So this is a solution that is both a natural/necessary extension to CRM, but also a great cross sell fit on the Work Management side as well.</p><p>Monday introduced this product in Sep-25, and already had 200+ accounts as of early Nov-25.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!KDCe!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F62d2248d-43db-405f-9029-6db146ac337a_477x335.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!KDCe!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, 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/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!KDCe!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F62d2248d-43db-405f-9029-6db146ac337a_477x335.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!KDCe!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F62d2248d-43db-405f-9029-6db146ac337a_477x335.png" width="567" height="398.20754716981133" 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F62d2248d-43db-405f-9029-6db146ac337a_477x335.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!KDCe!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F62d2248d-43db-405f-9029-6db146ac337a_477x335.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" 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y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p><em>Dev</em></p><p>Monday Dev launched in Q4&#8217;22. It has not enjoyed the same level of traction as CRM. As of Q2&#8217;25, it&#8217;s grown ARR to $14mm and its number of accounts to 4.7k.</p><p>With 4.7k customers and $14m of ARR, this implies Monday Dev is generating ~$3.0k of annual revenue per customer (implying ~20 seats per customer). Currently 49% of ARR comes from the SMB segment (&lt;100 employees), 31% from Mid-Market (100-1,500 employees) and 20% from Enterprise (1,500+ employees).</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!g_tI!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb3e84c06-5a62-4ebe-b7e4-0a275b0d0e81_1092x610.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!g_tI!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb3e84c06-5a62-4ebe-b7e4-0a275b0d0e81_1092x610.png 424w, 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb3e84c06-5a62-4ebe-b7e4-0a275b0d0e81_1092x610.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!g_tI!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb3e84c06-5a62-4ebe-b7e4-0a275b0d0e81_1092x610.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!g_tI!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb3e84c06-5a62-4ebe-b7e4-0a275b0d0e81_1092x610.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!g_tI!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb3e84c06-5a62-4ebe-b7e4-0a275b0d0e81_1092x610.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Below is a look at quarterly growth in Monday&#8217;s Dev customers. In Q2&#8217;25, customer accounts grew 72% YoY.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!qygp!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F75c7d8cf-edc4-4070-96ce-9bce37e42cc1_1317x1265.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!qygp!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F75c7d8cf-edc4-4070-96ce-9bce37e42cc1_1317x1265.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!qygp!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F75c7d8cf-edc4-4070-96ce-9bce37e42cc1_1317x1265.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!qygp!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F75c7d8cf-edc4-4070-96ce-9bce37e42cc1_1317x1265.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!qygp!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F75c7d8cf-edc4-4070-96ce-9bce37e42cc1_1317x1265.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!qygp!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F75c7d8cf-edc4-4070-96ce-9bce37e42cc1_1317x1265.png" width="513" height="492.744874715262" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/75c7d8cf-edc4-4070-96ce-9bce37e42cc1_1317x1265.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1265,&quot;width&quot;:1317,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:513,&quot;bytes&quot;:71216,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F75c7d8cf-edc4-4070-96ce-9bce37e42cc1_1317x1265.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!qygp!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F75c7d8cf-edc4-4070-96ce-9bce37e42cc1_1317x1265.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!qygp!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F75c7d8cf-edc4-4070-96ce-9bce37e42cc1_1317x1265.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!qygp!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F75c7d8cf-edc4-4070-96ce-9bce37e42cc1_1317x1265.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!qygp!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F75c7d8cf-edc4-4070-96ce-9bce37e42cc1_1317x1265.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p><em>(Monday stopped reporting this figure in Q3&#8217;25)</em></p><p>Monday Dev is priced in the $9-20+ range, per user per month.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!oM4b!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb2671701-4339-42da-8f61-ae74673e1bdf_572x581.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!oM4b!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb2671701-4339-42da-8f61-ae74673e1bdf_572x581.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!oM4b!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb2671701-4339-42da-8f61-ae74673e1bdf_572x581.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!oM4b!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb2671701-4339-42da-8f61-ae74673e1bdf_572x581.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!oM4b!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb2671701-4339-42da-8f61-ae74673e1bdf_572x581.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!oM4b!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb2671701-4339-42da-8f61-ae74673e1bdf_572x581.png" width="572" height="581" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/b2671701-4339-42da-8f61-ae74673e1bdf_572x581.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:581,&quot;width&quot;:572,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:117444,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb2671701-4339-42da-8f61-ae74673e1bdf_572x581.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!oM4b!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb2671701-4339-42da-8f61-ae74673e1bdf_572x581.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!oM4b!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb2671701-4339-42da-8f61-ae74673e1bdf_572x581.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!oM4b!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb2671701-4339-42da-8f61-ae74673e1bdf_572x581.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!oM4b!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb2671701-4339-42da-8f61-ae74673e1bdf_572x581.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Below is pricing for Monday&#8217;s primary competitors in Dev. Jira is the dominant player in the space, and Monday is actually priced at a bit of a premium to Jira which of course seems backwards. But this is something Monday felt was necessary.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-8" href="#footnote-8" target="_self">8</a></p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!kHUB!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F033a17c1-6370-4108-a254-8ef14a7a07fc_2317x906.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!kHUB!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F033a17c1-6370-4108-a254-8ef14a7a07fc_2317x906.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!kHUB!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F033a17c1-6370-4108-a254-8ef14a7a07fc_2317x906.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!kHUB!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F033a17c1-6370-4108-a254-8ef14a7a07fc_2317x906.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!kHUB!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F033a17c1-6370-4108-a254-8ef14a7a07fc_2317x906.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!kHUB!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F033a17c1-6370-4108-a254-8ef14a7a07fc_2317x906.png" width="1456" height="569" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/033a17c1-6370-4108-a254-8ef14a7a07fc_2317x906.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:569,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:132124,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F033a17c1-6370-4108-a254-8ef14a7a07fc_2317x906.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!kHUB!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F033a17c1-6370-4108-a254-8ef14a7a07fc_2317x906.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!kHUB!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F033a17c1-6370-4108-a254-8ef14a7a07fc_2317x906.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!kHUB!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F033a17c1-6370-4108-a254-8ef14a7a07fc_2317x906.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!kHUB!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F033a17c1-6370-4108-a254-8ef14a7a07fc_2317x906.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Here is the DevOps Magic Quadrant for 2025 (Monday is not included):</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!oSI5!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9d1273ee-71a7-4ca8-9718-5a56794d6af9_464x464.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!oSI5!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9d1273ee-71a7-4ca8-9718-5a56794d6af9_464x464.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!oSI5!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9d1273ee-71a7-4ca8-9718-5a56794d6af9_464x464.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!oSI5!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9d1273ee-71a7-4ca8-9718-5a56794d6af9_464x464.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!oSI5!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9d1273ee-71a7-4ca8-9718-5a56794d6af9_464x464.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!oSI5!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9d1273ee-71a7-4ca8-9718-5a56794d6af9_464x464.png" width="464" height="464" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/9d1273ee-71a7-4ca8-9718-5a56794d6af9_464x464.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:464,&quot;width&quot;:464,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:44721,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9d1273ee-71a7-4ca8-9718-5a56794d6af9_464x464.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!oSI5!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9d1273ee-71a7-4ca8-9718-5a56794d6af9_464x464.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!oSI5!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9d1273ee-71a7-4ca8-9718-5a56794d6af9_464x464.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!oSI5!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9d1273ee-71a7-4ca8-9718-5a56794d6af9_464x464.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!oSI5!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9d1273ee-71a7-4ca8-9718-5a56794d6af9_464x464.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>And the G2 reviews, where Monday scores well.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!bYs2!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0953abcb-8454-447b-9f0e-5c30d95d0700_2961x1032.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!bYs2!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0953abcb-8454-447b-9f0e-5c30d95d0700_2961x1032.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!bYs2!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0953abcb-8454-447b-9f0e-5c30d95d0700_2961x1032.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!bYs2!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0953abcb-8454-447b-9f0e-5c30d95d0700_2961x1032.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!bYs2!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0953abcb-8454-447b-9f0e-5c30d95d0700_2961x1032.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!bYs2!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0953abcb-8454-447b-9f0e-5c30d95d0700_2961x1032.png" width="1456" height="507" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/0953abcb-8454-447b-9f0e-5c30d95d0700_2961x1032.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:507,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:650577,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0953abcb-8454-447b-9f0e-5c30d95d0700_2961x1032.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!bYs2!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0953abcb-8454-447b-9f0e-5c30d95d0700_2961x1032.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!bYs2!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0953abcb-8454-447b-9f0e-5c30d95d0700_2961x1032.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!bYs2!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0953abcb-8454-447b-9f0e-5c30d95d0700_2961x1032.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!bYs2!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0953abcb-8454-447b-9f0e-5c30d95d0700_2961x1032.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>In reading expert call transcripts with Monday partners, a theme regarding Dev is just how hard seems to displace Jira. </p><p>From Monday partner Omnitas Consulting (Tegus, Jul-25):</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;It&#8217;s not performing, and it&#8217;s not because of the product. It&#8217;s because of the culture and the stickiness of the competitors. <strong>It&#8217;s so difficult to push Atlassian out of a company to replace it or Azure DevOps. We&#8217;re not even bothering anymore.</strong> We&#8217;re not marketing it.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>From Monday partner Elevate (Tegus, Aug-25):</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;Dev was not as successful as a product. <strong>Tough to go against someone like Jira, who has just such a cultural grasp on that demographic</strong>.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>It seems Monday Dev is best positioned for customers focused on (1) user friendliness and/or (2) collaboration between all stakeholders in the development process (beyond just developers).<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-9" href="#footnote-9" target="_self">9</a></p><p><em>Service</em></p><p>Service is Monday&#8217;s latest product, released in Q2&#8217;24. The product was doing ~$7mm of ARR as of Q2&#8217;25.</p><p>Service can be used across all company functions including IT, HR, finance, legal, etc. &#8212; any area where requests/tickets are created and need a response. Using Service as a customer facing solution is not currently a core use-case for the offering (though it is a possible use-case), from what I can tell.</p><p>Service is currently Monday&#8217;s most upmarket-oriented product, with 16% of revenue coming from enterprise (1,500+ employees), 52% coming from mid-market (100-1,500 employees) and just 32% coming from SMBs (&lt;100 employees).</p><p>This is also Monday&#8217;s highest ACV product, with an average ACV of ~$7k as of Q2&#8217;25 ($7mm ARR / 1.0k accounts)</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!1WEX!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8ccca4f1-0cf6-4982-af37-f4cd922663fd_1060x591.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!1WEX!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8ccca4f1-0cf6-4982-af37-f4cd922663fd_1060x591.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!1WEX!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8ccca4f1-0cf6-4982-af37-f4cd922663fd_1060x591.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!1WEX!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8ccca4f1-0cf6-4982-af37-f4cd922663fd_1060x591.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!1WEX!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8ccca4f1-0cf6-4982-af37-f4cd922663fd_1060x591.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!1WEX!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8ccca4f1-0cf6-4982-af37-f4cd922663fd_1060x591.png" width="1060" height="591" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/8ccca4f1-0cf6-4982-af37-f4cd922663fd_1060x591.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:591,&quot;width&quot;:1060,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:226623,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8ccca4f1-0cf6-4982-af37-f4cd922663fd_1060x591.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!1WEX!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8ccca4f1-0cf6-4982-af37-f4cd922663fd_1060x591.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!1WEX!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8ccca4f1-0cf6-4982-af37-f4cd922663fd_1060x591.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!1WEX!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8ccca4f1-0cf6-4982-af37-f4cd922663fd_1060x591.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!1WEX!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8ccca4f1-0cf6-4982-af37-f4cd922663fd_1060x591.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>While generating relatively little ARR today, it is actually Monday&#8217;s fastest growing product to date &#8212; outperforming both WM and CRM (slightly) through its first ~15 months post launch.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!yK1q!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F73c75b54-32c0-4f56-a8b2-b9f813148334_1100x615.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!yK1q!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F73c75b54-32c0-4f56-a8b2-b9f813148334_1100x615.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!yK1q!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F73c75b54-32c0-4f56-a8b2-b9f813148334_1100x615.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!yK1q!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F73c75b54-32c0-4f56-a8b2-b9f813148334_1100x615.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!yK1q!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F73c75b54-32c0-4f56-a8b2-b9f813148334_1100x615.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!yK1q!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F73c75b54-32c0-4f56-a8b2-b9f813148334_1100x615.png" width="1100" height="615" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/73c75b54-32c0-4f56-a8b2-b9f813148334_1100x615.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:615,&quot;width&quot;:1100,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:368232,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F73c75b54-32c0-4f56-a8b2-b9f813148334_1100x615.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!yK1q!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F73c75b54-32c0-4f56-a8b2-b9f813148334_1100x615.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!yK1q!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F73c75b54-32c0-4f56-a8b2-b9f813148334_1100x615.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!yK1q!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F73c75b54-32c0-4f56-a8b2-b9f813148334_1100x615.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!yK1q!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F73c75b54-32c0-4f56-a8b2-b9f813148334_1100x615.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Here&#8217;s a look at customer growth since launch.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!s5KR!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6b300c2f-7173-44e4-80ff-618309347b88_1520x2535.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!s5KR!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6b300c2f-7173-44e4-80ff-618309347b88_1520x2535.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!s5KR!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6b300c2f-7173-44e4-80ff-618309347b88_1520x2535.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!s5KR!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6b300c2f-7173-44e4-80ff-618309347b88_1520x2535.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!s5KR!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6b300c2f-7173-44e4-80ff-618309347b88_1520x2535.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!s5KR!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6b300c2f-7173-44e4-80ff-618309347b88_1520x2535.png" width="303" height="505.2774725274725" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/6b300c2f-7173-44e4-80ff-618309347b88_1520x2535.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:2428,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:303,&quot;bytes&quot;:89400,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6b300c2f-7173-44e4-80ff-618309347b88_1520x2535.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!s5KR!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6b300c2f-7173-44e4-80ff-618309347b88_1520x2535.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!s5KR!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6b300c2f-7173-44e4-80ff-618309347b88_1520x2535.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!s5KR!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6b300c2f-7173-44e4-80ff-618309347b88_1520x2535.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!s5KR!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6b300c2f-7173-44e4-80ff-618309347b88_1520x2535.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p><em>(Monday stopped reporting this figure in Q3&#8217;25)</em></p><p>Service is priced in the $26-38+ range. It is Monday&#8217;s highest ASP product.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!1fUL!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F786eeb4d-a963-424c-b8a2-1f78fca15015_420x593.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!1fUL!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F786eeb4d-a963-424c-b8a2-1f78fca15015_420x593.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!1fUL!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F786eeb4d-a963-424c-b8a2-1f78fca15015_420x593.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!1fUL!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F786eeb4d-a963-424c-b8a2-1f78fca15015_420x593.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!1fUL!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F786eeb4d-a963-424c-b8a2-1f78fca15015_420x593.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!1fUL!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F786eeb4d-a963-424c-b8a2-1f78fca15015_420x593.png" width="420" height="593" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/786eeb4d-a963-424c-b8a2-1f78fca15015_420x593.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:593,&quot;width&quot;:420,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:109494,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F786eeb4d-a963-424c-b8a2-1f78fca15015_420x593.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!1fUL!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F786eeb4d-a963-424c-b8a2-1f78fca15015_420x593.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!1fUL!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F786eeb4d-a963-424c-b8a2-1f78fca15015_420x593.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!1fUL!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F786eeb4d-a963-424c-b8a2-1f78fca15015_420x593.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!1fUL!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F786eeb4d-a963-424c-b8a2-1f78fca15015_420x593.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Below is pricing for Monday&#8217;s primary competitors in Service. While ServiceNow doesn&#8217;t list pricing on its website, it&#8217;s ITSM product reportedly starts in the $<a href="https://sprinto.com/blog/servicenow-review/">60</a>-<a href="https://www.desk365.io/blog/servicenow-pricing/#:~:text=Subscription%20fees%3A%20Organizations%20must%20pay,%24200%20per%20user%20per%20month.">90</a> range, per user per mo. Zendesk and SolarWinds occupy the higher end alongside ServiceNow. Freshworks is a tier below, followed by Jira, Zoho and Monday in the lowest tier.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!JYQL!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F23e6a2f6-30ee-43a8-a1ae-5c8c32cdf71c_2317x1233.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!JYQL!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F23e6a2f6-30ee-43a8-a1ae-5c8c32cdf71c_2317x1233.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!JYQL!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F23e6a2f6-30ee-43a8-a1ae-5c8c32cdf71c_2317x1233.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!JYQL!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F23e6a2f6-30ee-43a8-a1ae-5c8c32cdf71c_2317x1233.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!JYQL!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F23e6a2f6-30ee-43a8-a1ae-5c8c32cdf71c_2317x1233.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!JYQL!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F23e6a2f6-30ee-43a8-a1ae-5c8c32cdf71c_2317x1233.png" width="1456" height="775" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/23e6a2f6-30ee-43a8-a1ae-5c8c32cdf71c_2317x1233.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:775,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:236422,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F23e6a2f6-30ee-43a8-a1ae-5c8c32cdf71c_2317x1233.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!JYQL!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F23e6a2f6-30ee-43a8-a1ae-5c8c32cdf71c_2317x1233.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!JYQL!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F23e6a2f6-30ee-43a8-a1ae-5c8c32cdf71c_2317x1233.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!JYQL!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F23e6a2f6-30ee-43a8-a1ae-5c8c32cdf71c_2317x1233.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!JYQL!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F23e6a2f6-30ee-43a8-a1ae-5c8c32cdf71c_2317x1233.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>As Monday enhances the product, there should be room to add a tier above Pro, which as we can see from Monday&#8217;s peers, is generally quite lucrative (for Freshworks and Jira the highest tier is ~2x the price of the next highest). Currently Monday is lacking in functionality relative to a Zendesk or a Freshworks.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-10" href="#footnote-10" target="_self">10</a> </p><p>Service is perhaps the most natural product fit for Monday&#8217;s platform (after Work Management). Service requires flexible and robust process management combined with strong automation capabilities. Monday management from Q2&#8217;24 earnings on the early success of Service:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;Look, it&#8217;s very early days -- how this will compare to Monday CRM or Monday Dev. What we can share is that the feedback is very positive from customers. A lot of excitement. One of the things that really resonates compared to other players in the market, again, is the flexibility, kind of similar to CRM and Dev products. But I think specifically for Service, it kind of -- the effect of this is even more significant to our customers because they want to automate a lot of the processes within the IT service management product, and they want to have more customizability on how they catch data and how they process workflows. So <strong>this is exactly where Monday shines</strong>.</em>&#8221;</p></blockquote><p>Not only is the Monday platform well positioned to execute on a Service product, but Service is also a natural fit to sit alongside Work Management for many of Monday&#8217;s current customers. Monday management from the Dec-24 NASDAQ conference:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;So the reason we come out with new products is we really believe in them. We see the demand. We see customers want it, but it&#8217;s actually every one of our products have a different go-to-market&#8230;And what we&#8217;re seeing with Service, which shows like great and promising early results, is that <strong>we&#8217;re able to go to market to existing customers because it&#8217;s</strong> -- service essentially it&#8217;s ESM, enterprise service management. <strong>It&#8217;s like everywhere, you need tickets, you need requests. So it might be legal, it might be finance, it might be IT as well. So wherever we land within work management, the same person that we talk with can also take service.</strong> So we&#8217;re really optimistic about it and show great early results, but we&#8217;ll have to see.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><div><hr></div><h2>AI Capabilities</h2><p>Monday has been rapidly introducing AI capabilities. </p><p>While Monday is seeing adoption &#8212; primarily of its AI Blocks product and Monday Vibe &#8212; I wouldn&#8217;t say its AI offerings have hit some sort of &#8220;escape velocity.&#8221; Monday&#8217;s agent platform will be a very important capability (coming H1&#8217;26), and it would be a great sign for this platform to show meaningful traction/engagement.</p><p>Below is an overview of Monday&#8217;s AI offerings today:</p><ul><li><p>AI Blocks (released Sep-24). Modular, customizable AI actions. These capabilities include actions like categorizing items, extracting info, summarizing text, translating text, etc. that you might embed in a Board</p></li><li><p>Monday Sidekick (released Jul-25, now generally available). A &#8220;digital worker,&#8221; aware of a user&#8217;s company, role, and responsibilities. Proactively suggests and takes action to move work forward. Like a ChatGPT overlay within Monday</p></li><li><p>Monday Magic / Monday Vibe </p><ul><li><p>Monday Magic (released Jun-25, now generally available). Like vibe coding within Monday&#8217;s core offerings, users can create and modify workflows or boards with prompts in plain language</p></li><li><p>Monday Vibe (released Aug-25, now generally available). A broader vibe coding platform that enables users to build secure, custom business apps natively connected to all their Monday data</p></li></ul></li><li><p>Monday Agents (scheduled rollout H1&#8217;26). Specialized digital workers that can be built from scratch or by building off a Monday &#8220;template&#8221; using natural language</p></li><li><p>Product Power-Ups (scheduled rollout H1&#8217;26). Agentic capabilities embedded throughout Monday&#8217;s suite of products (i.e. an SDR for Monday CRM, ticket resolution for Monday Service, etc.)</p></li></ul><p><em>AI Blocks</em></p><p>AI Blocks was Monday&#8217;s first AI product, released in Sep-24. AI Blocks allow users to embed AI functionality within Boards (mostly as AI-powered columns). </p><p>For example, AI Blocks would allow users to translate, summarize, assign a label, extract information from a file, improve text, generate a doc, assign people to an item, detect sentiment, prioritize, etc.</p><p>Here&#8217;s an <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5VwWDq7wJ0">example</a> from Monday where an HR department loads a bunch of resumes into a Board. The team can then perform a number of different functions using AI Blocks:</p><ul><li><p>Pull out a candidate&#8217;s years of experience in a certain industry or overall</p></li><li><p>Summarize a candidate&#8217;s work experience</p></li><li><p>Dynamically assign interviewers based on certain criteria</p></li><li><p>Provide an overall score to a candidate based on a natural language prompt like &#8220;a strong hire would be someone with 3+ years of experience, held a leadership position in the past, and prioritizes effective communication with their team. An average hire has at least one of those qualities&#8221;</p></li></ul><p>The use of AI Blocks has been, to put it in management&#8217;s words, &#8220;exploding&#8221; across the platform. Here&#8217;s a chart of &#8220;Total AI Actions&#8221; from their Q2&#8217;25 shareholder letter:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!VbmK!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F816cf58d-3008-4b28-b62b-416736da1a46_267x454.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!VbmK!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F816cf58d-3008-4b28-b62b-416736da1a46_267x454.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!VbmK!, 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F816cf58d-3008-4b28-b62b-416736da1a46_267x454.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!VbmK!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F816cf58d-3008-4b28-b62b-416736da1a46_267x454.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!VbmK!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F816cf58d-3008-4b28-b62b-416736da1a46_267x454.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!VbmK!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F816cf58d-3008-4b28-b62b-416736da1a46_267x454.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" 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y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p><em>Monday Sidekick</em></p><p>Monday Sidekick was Monday&#8217;s first foray into the world of digital &#8220;agents.&#8221; Monday describes Sidekick as a personalized, context-aware digital worker. </p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!fXXM!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fdddb7904-541d-42eb-a47b-b44e0c5ed9f7_1041x581.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!fXXM!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, 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can ask it to do things both inside Monday as well as outside, like researching a venue for a conference in NYC and drafting emails to check availability. </p><p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_ERSbkkIVo">Here</a> is an overview.</p><p>From expert transcripts, my sense is that Sidekick is not that great of a product today. </p><p><em>Monday Magic</em></p><p>Monday Magic is like &#8220;vibe-coding&#8221; but contained within Monday&#8217;s core offerings. Monday Magic allows users to build and modify work solutions in Monday (e.g. boards/dashboards/forms/etc.) by just describing what they want using natural language. </p><p>Here&#8217;s an <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qm2xilgGhXM">example</a> of building &amp; iterating on an event tracking application with Monday Magic. </p><p>From it&#8217;s launch in Jun-25 through mid Sep-25, users built 2,000+ solutions with Monday Magic. While that&#8217;s not exactly explosive growth, Magic seems like a useful capability to add to the platform, and I&#8217;d expect it&#8217;s usage to grow.</p><p><em>Monday Vibe</em></p><p>Monday Vibe is a fully blown &#8220;vibe-coding&#8221; offering from Monday. Except with Monday Vibe, vibe-coded apps will sit atop MondayDB and come natively connected to all of a customer&#8217;s data, workflows and integrations within Monday. Apps will also be backed by Monday&#8217;s governance, security and compliance. </p><p>Here&#8217;s an <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYKVEN7Imig">overview</a>.</p><p>Monday Vibe has been used to build 60k+ apps between its limited launch in late August and early November. </p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!fhD_!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff5f406a5-a433-4501-9e21-fb10103ca8b7_518x508.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!fhD_!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, 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data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/f5f406a5-a433-4501-9e21-fb10103ca8b7_518x508.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:508,&quot;width&quot;:518,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:562,&quot;bytes&quot;:241200,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff5f406a5-a433-4501-9e21-fb10103ca8b7_518x508.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!fhD_!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff5f406a5-a433-4501-9e21-fb10103ca8b7_518x508.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!fhD_!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff5f406a5-a433-4501-9e21-fb10103ca8b7_518x508.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!fhD_!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff5f406a5-a433-4501-9e21-fb10103ca8b7_518x508.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!fhD_!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff5f406a5-a433-4501-9e21-fb10103ca8b7_518x508.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Below are some examples of apps that you can create with Monday Vibe: a customer segmentation tool, executive KPI app, event page, supply chain tracker, time tracking, OKR dashboard, sales commission tracker, social media content calendar, org chart, a campaign health tracker.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!zvMv!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4c1f8cd9-0e1d-40ff-b9ca-d19acb81d7ce_1043x584.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!zvMv!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4c1f8cd9-0e1d-40ff-b9ca-d19acb81d7ce_1043x584.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!zvMv!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4c1f8cd9-0e1d-40ff-b9ca-d19acb81d7ce_1043x584.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!zvMv!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4c1f8cd9-0e1d-40ff-b9ca-d19acb81d7ce_1043x584.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!zvMv!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4c1f8cd9-0e1d-40ff-b9ca-d19acb81d7ce_1043x584.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!zvMv!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4c1f8cd9-0e1d-40ff-b9ca-d19acb81d7ce_1043x584.png" width="1043" height="584" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/4c1f8cd9-0e1d-40ff-b9ca-d19acb81d7ce_1043x584.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:584,&quot;width&quot;:1043,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:355259,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4c1f8cd9-0e1d-40ff-b9ca-d19acb81d7ce_1043x584.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!zvMv!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4c1f8cd9-0e1d-40ff-b9ca-d19acb81d7ce_1043x584.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!zvMv!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4c1f8cd9-0e1d-40ff-b9ca-d19acb81d7ce_1043x584.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!zvMv!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4c1f8cd9-0e1d-40ff-b9ca-d19acb81d7ce_1043x584.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!zvMv!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4c1f8cd9-0e1d-40ff-b9ca-d19acb81d7ce_1043x584.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p><em>Monday Agents</em></p><p>At its Sep-25 investor day, Monday unveiled its Agents offering, which will be generally available in H1&#8217;26.</p><p>The offering will consist of (1) ready-made agents built by Monday as well as (2) a platform for building custom agents, where bespoke agents can be designed by customers using natural language. Bespoke agents can be designed from scratch, or built off of existing templates.</p><p>Here is an example of a bespoke agent created to collect feedback from customers. As you can see, the agent can be built using a user-friendly, no-code interface (similar to the style of Monday&#8217;s automation platform).</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!TRje!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4fd0cac3-3c84-4716-aed2-36f1030fab31_1092x614.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!TRje!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4fd0cac3-3c84-4716-aed2-36f1030fab31_1092x614.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!TRje!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4fd0cac3-3c84-4716-aed2-36f1030fab31_1092x614.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!TRje!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4fd0cac3-3c84-4716-aed2-36f1030fab31_1092x614.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!TRje!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4fd0cac3-3c84-4716-aed2-36f1030fab31_1092x614.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!TRje!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4fd0cac3-3c84-4716-aed2-36f1030fab31_1092x614.png" width="1092" height="614" 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4fd0cac3-3c84-4716-aed2-36f1030fab31_1092x614.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!TRje!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4fd0cac3-3c84-4716-aed2-36f1030fab31_1092x614.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!TRje!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4fd0cac3-3c84-4716-aed2-36f1030fab31_1092x614.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!TRje!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4fd0cac3-3c84-4716-aed2-36f1030fab31_1092x614.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p><em>Product Power-Ups</em></p><p>One such &#8220;ready-made&#8221; agent Monday highlighted at their Sep-25 investor day was Chris, their SDR agent. This agent is designed and built by Monday, and will come embedded within Monday CRM. Chris has the ability to contact new leads by phone, qualify leads and set up calls with sales reps. </p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!FRsq!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fad16b956-0af0-461b-aa5c-19d51c809986_1055x592.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!FRsq!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fad16b956-0af0-461b-aa5c-19d51c809986_1055x592.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!FRsq!, 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fad16b956-0af0-461b-aa5c-19d51c809986_1055x592.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!FRsq!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fad16b956-0af0-461b-aa5c-19d51c809986_1055x592.png" width="1055" height="592" 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fad16b956-0af0-461b-aa5c-19d51c809986_1055x592.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!FRsq!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fad16b956-0af0-461b-aa5c-19d51c809986_1055x592.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!FRsq!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fad16b956-0af0-461b-aa5c-19d51c809986_1055x592.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!FRsq!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fad16b956-0af0-461b-aa5c-19d51c809986_1055x592.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Monday&#8217;s Service offering will also feature embedded AI capabilities. AI is critical in service where tickets can be auto-assigned to reps, auto-categorized, auto-scored for sentiment, or ultimately just answered/completed by AI.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NtCk!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F26e92d1f-0d8c-48bb-8389-752f82ce5e03_1036x573.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NtCk!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F26e92d1f-0d8c-48bb-8389-752f82ce5e03_1036x573.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NtCk!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F26e92d1f-0d8c-48bb-8389-752f82ce5e03_1036x573.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NtCk!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F26e92d1f-0d8c-48bb-8389-752f82ce5e03_1036x573.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NtCk!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F26e92d1f-0d8c-48bb-8389-752f82ce5e03_1036x573.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NtCk!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F26e92d1f-0d8c-48bb-8389-752f82ce5e03_1036x573.png" width="1036" height="573" 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F26e92d1f-0d8c-48bb-8389-752f82ce5e03_1036x573.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NtCk!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F26e92d1f-0d8c-48bb-8389-752f82ce5e03_1036x573.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NtCk!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F26e92d1f-0d8c-48bb-8389-752f82ce5e03_1036x573.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NtCk!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F26e92d1f-0d8c-48bb-8389-752f82ce5e03_1036x573.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" 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Service, as we can see from the slide above, Monday will offer the ability to more granularly fine-tune AI&#8217;s level of autonomy.</p><p><em>Monday&#8217;s AI Agent Frameworks &amp; Vision</em></p><p>In this <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8ewpJrZVwo&amp;list=WL&amp;index=5&amp;t=3s">talk</a>, the head of AI at Monday, Assaf Elovic, outlined some key frameworks that Monday has used in the design of its agents:</p><ul><li><p>User control. It&#8217;s important to give users control of an agent&#8217;s &#8220;level of autonomy.&#8221; Do you want an agent to purely suggest actions? Do you want it to operate independently with no human in the loop? Do you want it to preview actions, and require human approval before taking them?</p></li><li><p>Entry point. Monday is able to weave AI into its offerings in creative ways that help drive adoption. While they have a chatbot-like window, they also give users the ability to say, assign a task to an AI agent within a board just like how you might assign a task to a human. In that case, using an agent is a completely seamless experience within an existing workflow. Monday has also embedded Sidekick into Boards in a way where users can &#8220;<a href="https://youtu.be/P_ERSbkkIVo">just click the star</a>&#8221; (which is the icon for Sidekick) which will immediately engage Sidekick on an item.</p></li><li><p>Preview. An engineer wouldn&#8217;t push code generated by Cursor straight into production without looking at it. In the same way, a user on Monday shouldn&#8217;t be expected post content to a Board without also looking at it. So this requires a preview function, where a user can see what actions an agent will take before &#8220;approving&#8221; those actions. After this preview function was introduced, Monday saw a dramatic increase in AI usage.</p></li><li><p>Explain-ability. Give users an understanding of why outputs from an agent are happening. This way, users are given an ability to change the outcomes.</p></li></ul><p><em>Agent Marketplace</em></p><p>Monday will be opening up its marketplace to agents built by third parties. If a robust marketplace develops, this could nicely extend Monday&#8217;s agentic capabilities. Imagine a third-party legal agent that could draft or review contracts. Or an agent that might be really good at enriching leads. Or an agent that could verify someone&#8217;s work history (by actually calling all past employers). Or even hyper vertical-specific agents like handling collections for dental practices or scheduling viewings for property managers.</p><p><em>What AI Capabilities are Missing?</em></p><ul><li><p><em>Agent-to-Agent.</em> A missing piece for Monday is the ability for a Sidekick to connect to other apps natively (i.e. from within the Monday application). This would enable things like summarizing a document in Box, searching across Slack, prompting Canva to draft a set of designs, asking your inventory management system to order more of some item, etc. &#8212; all without leaving Monday. </p></li><li><p><em>AI-Infused Workflow Builder. </em>Monday <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FliBcpBswTU">already has</a> a workflow builder product. The logical next step would be to infuse this product with AI in useful ways. I think over the next couple years, we&#8217;ll start to see this. 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Facccc4f9-69a9-4252-bfbf-1e6ee1b94147_402x555.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!W6Wo!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Facccc4f9-69a9-4252-bfbf-1e6ee1b94147_402x555.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" 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y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div></li><li><p><em><s>AI Notetaker</s></em>. Monday introduced an <a href="https://youtu.be/eRHQ0DvolIo">AI notetaker</a> for all Enterprise &amp; Pro accounts a few weeks ago. This is a helpful feature for users and also creates critical &#8220;unstructured&#8221; call transcript data that can be leveraged by AI</p></li></ul><p><em>How is Monday Charging for AI?</em></p><p>Monday currently charges on a consumption-basis for most of its AI products, as we can see below.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!GCwH!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffe0dff3b-b862-4a60-9bb0-bdd708936582_1045x586.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!GCwH!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffe0dff3b-b862-4a60-9bb0-bdd708936582_1045x586.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!GCwH!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffe0dff3b-b862-4a60-9bb0-bdd708936582_1045x586.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!GCwH!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffe0dff3b-b862-4a60-9bb0-bdd708936582_1045x586.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!GCwH!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffe0dff3b-b862-4a60-9bb0-bdd708936582_1045x586.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!GCwH!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffe0dff3b-b862-4a60-9bb0-bdd708936582_1045x586.png" width="1045" height="586" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/fe0dff3b-b862-4a60-9bb0-bdd708936582_1045x586.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:586,&quot;width&quot;:1045,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:304294,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffe0dff3b-b862-4a60-9bb0-bdd708936582_1045x586.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!GCwH!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffe0dff3b-b862-4a60-9bb0-bdd708936582_1045x586.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!GCwH!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffe0dff3b-b862-4a60-9bb0-bdd708936582_1045x586.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!GCwH!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffe0dff3b-b862-4a60-9bb0-bdd708936582_1045x586.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!GCwH!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffe0dff3b-b862-4a60-9bb0-bdd708936582_1045x586.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Right now Monday provides a one-time set of AI &#8220;trial&#8221; credits for all accounts. Once credits are used up, accounts will need to buy additional credits. Certain minor AI features are free to use (e.g. summarize updates with AI, filter with AI, build Workforms with AI, etc.).</p><p>For Vibe, Monday charges $100/mo for up to 10 active apps and $250/mo for up to 25 active apps (I assume this is per account). Users can &#8220;draft&#8221; an unlimited amount of apps for free. This seems priced appropriately cheaply to drive adoption (and enhance the attractiveness of the overall Monday solution).</p><div><hr></div><h2>Go-To-Market</h2><p>From the inception of the company through 2018, Monday had essentially no sales people. The GTM motion was pure performance marketing (which it leaned into heavily) + self-serve. </p><p>Also from practically inception (when Monday was &lt;10 people), Monday decided to build a custom BI engine, called Big Brain. Big Brain&#8217;s original focus was performance marketing, and it provided Monday with in-depth data on the success of every campaign it would run. Monday credits Big Brain with much of its success in performance marketing. From the Logan Bartlett Show (Dec-24):</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;Our initial intuition [was] let's use something off the shelf. An analytics software off the shelf. But, I don't know, since day one we had this huge inspiration that we want to build a big company. And we said that if we want to be successful, we have to control our own destiny. We have to control information and we cannot fly blind&#8230;</em></p><p><em>Because back in the days, unlike what happened in the later years, we didn't have a lot of resources to raise money from. Our Series A was actually $1.4 million&#8230;We have to be very efficient in how we spend money, <strong>so since day one we tracked everything, literally everything. </strong>Every campaign click, every visit to our website, every banner view, every YouTube ad being watched. </em></p><p><em>And then, because we built it on our own platform, we could track a user all the way throughout the sign-up funnel &#8212; converting to payment, eventually expansion, and so on. <strong>So you could see a complete user journey </strong>&#8212; years back &#8212; with all the data, all the touch points, everything that converted that user into a paid account. And eventually how they expand over time... <strong>And then on top of that, what we built is a very efficient performance marketing engine that can crunch all that data and let us know, in a very specific way, which campaign that we&#8217;re running is very effective and which ones we're losing money on.&#8221;</strong></em></p></blockquote><p>Another unique thing that Monday did in its early years was spend heavily on certain non-Google ad platforms, in particular Facebook and YouTube. While this was a relatively unusual tactic, Monday knew that it was making a healthy return on this spend, which Big Brain could prove definitively. This is partly what Monday credits for the fact that its customer base became mostly non-tech companies &#8212; not something that management had originally anticipated. To this day, Monday&#8217;s customer base is ~70% non-tech (as well as ~50% non-North American). </p><p>Another unique decision Monday made early on was to optimize its marketing spend for cash-on-cash payback (i.e. minimize the time it took to recover their marketing spend, in cash, from customers). From the Logan Bartlett Show (Dec-24):</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;Almost nobody cares about cash&#8230;Nobody talks about what actually goes in and goes out out of the company bank account. <strong>But at the end of the day, I always say to people you cannot go to the supermarket and pay with LTV. People need cash in order to operate their business.</strong> So we always try to optimize for that. How much did we spend &#8212; actual spend going out. When do we get the cash back? Do people pay us annually or monthly? Do they upgrade? And so on. I think that eventually made Monday a very efficient cash machine over time&#8230;</em></p><p><em>I think a lot of people, when they think about, &#8216;We want to be more aggressive.&#8217; We&#8217;ll just raise another round, and we can spend more in acquiring customers. Let's say we got a great LTV of, I don't know, $100,000. So we could spend more to acquire those customers. But that's not the point, because when you recycle cash quickly you can reinvest that into the business. I always say that our best investor [has been] our customers because of the fact that they pay for the tool up front&#8230;allowed us to get the cash back to reinvest that into marketing, essentially. <strong>Let's say out of that $1.4 [million Monday raised] in our seed [round], we spent, I don't remember the exact number, but about 5 million in performance marketing using that 1.4.</strong>&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>This also meant tweaking the prospect journey in ways to optimize for receiving as much cash upfront as possible. They reportedly spent to an 8 month payback initially, &#8220;and not a day longer.&#8221;<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-11" href="#footnote-11" target="_self">11</a></p><p>Today, Monday markets through over 55 different customer acquisition channels, with roughly 10% of new ARR coming through Google AdWords.</p><p>In 2018 the company decided that a sales org was necessary after all. If they wanted to go up market, they found, these types of customers wanted to speak with somebody. So Monday began building a sales team that ended 2022 with 774 employees (across sales, partners and customer success), up from 166 employees at the end of 2019. Since 2022, the overall employee base has doubled, so the GTM team has very likely more than doubled to 1,600+. </p><p>So since the end of 2019, over 5.5 years, this team has 10x&#8217;d. Somewhere likely a little over 1/3rd of the team was hired in just the last 2 years, and would therefore not yet be fully ramped contributors.</p><p>The GTM motion today is a combination of &#8220;top-down&#8221; and &#8220;bottoms-up.&#8221; Monday is unique in that their &#8220;top-down&#8221; motion so far has only been applied to existing customers, who have already adopted and are actively using the product.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-12" href="#footnote-12" target="_self">12</a> From Q1&#8217;22 earnings:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;Usually the way customers adopt Monday is &#8220;bottom-up.&#8221; And we see customers starting using Monday from all companies, all sizes and different roles, different positions within the company.</em></p><p><em>The way our sales algorithm work is that, whenever a customer signs up, we ask that customers advances detail during the final process about company size, their role in the company and how large a deployment they want. And also we're using third-party tools to enrich that information. Using all that information, we classify accounts that have potential to grow. <strong>So once we see paying account with engagement within the account and the potential to grow to, let's say, 1,000 people or more. Our sales team is engaging that customer.</strong> </em></p><p><em><strong>And basically, it's a different process because the customer is already using Monday, happy with a product and then we try to expand the usage</strong>&#8230;And usually, it's a short sales cycle, which leads to future sale cycles as well.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>We can see below that Monday&#8217;s spend on performance marketing as a % of total S&amp;M spend has fallen from 60% in Q1&#8217;21 to 33% in Q2&#8217;25.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!pSaO!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9be8f324-1d56-437a-9dd9-c0427d0a39a2_1123x627.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!pSaO!, 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9be8f324-1d56-437a-9dd9-c0427d0a39a2_1123x627.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!pSaO!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9be8f324-1d56-437a-9dd9-c0427d0a39a2_1123x627.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!pSaO!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9be8f324-1d56-437a-9dd9-c0427d0a39a2_1123x627.png" width="1123" height="627" 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9be8f324-1d56-437a-9dd9-c0427d0a39a2_1123x627.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!pSaO!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9be8f324-1d56-437a-9dd9-c0427d0a39a2_1123x627.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!pSaO!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9be8f324-1d56-437a-9dd9-c0427d0a39a2_1123x627.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!pSaO!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9be8f324-1d56-437a-9dd9-c0427d0a39a2_1123x627.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>As of 2019, self-serve channels represented 71% of new ARR added. As of 2023e, this number was down to 37%, with the sales team and the partner channel making up the difference.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!I4so!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F66674d45-acd3-4d45-b993-1ff384584fc5_930x582.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!I4so!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F66674d45-acd3-4d45-b993-1ff384584fc5_930x582.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!I4so!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F66674d45-acd3-4d45-b993-1ff384584fc5_930x582.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!I4so!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F66674d45-acd3-4d45-b993-1ff384584fc5_930x582.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!I4so!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F66674d45-acd3-4d45-b993-1ff384584fc5_930x582.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!I4so!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F66674d45-acd3-4d45-b993-1ff384584fc5_930x582.png" width="930" height="582" 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F66674d45-acd3-4d45-b993-1ff384584fc5_930x582.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!I4so!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F66674d45-acd3-4d45-b993-1ff384584fc5_930x582.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!I4so!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F66674d45-acd3-4d45-b993-1ff384584fc5_930x582.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!I4so!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F66674d45-acd3-4d45-b993-1ff384584fc5_930x582.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>It&#8217;s worth noting that Monday&#8217;s suite build-out has also helped with their GTM efforts as Monday can now target a broader array of buyers. Not only can Monday target prospective users of Work Management, but they can also target prospective users of CRM, Dev and Service. While CRM in particular is much more competitive/expensive in terms of performance marketing, this gives Monday greater optionality on how to spend its marketing dollars.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-13" href="#footnote-13" target="_self">13</a><a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-14" href="#footnote-14" target="_self">14</a></p><p>In Apr-25, Monday brought in Casey George as CRO, replacing Yoni Osherov who left to join Israeli VC firm Entree Capital. Casey laid out his priorities for the GTM function at Monday&#8217;s Sep-25 investor day: (1) multi-product growth, (2) accelerating upmarket and (3) customer retention.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!8kQE!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F434fcb36-888d-4bc6-bf0f-1ddefeb5f251_1076x604.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!8kQE!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F434fcb36-888d-4bc6-bf0f-1ddefeb5f251_1076x604.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!8kQE!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F434fcb36-888d-4bc6-bf0f-1ddefeb5f251_1076x604.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!8kQE!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F434fcb36-888d-4bc6-bf0f-1ddefeb5f251_1076x604.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!8kQE!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F434fcb36-888d-4bc6-bf0f-1ddefeb5f251_1076x604.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!8kQE!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F434fcb36-888d-4bc6-bf0f-1ddefeb5f251_1076x604.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!8kQE!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F434fcb36-888d-4bc6-bf0f-1ddefeb5f251_1076x604.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!8kQE!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F434fcb36-888d-4bc6-bf0f-1ddefeb5f251_1076x604.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><ul><li><p>Multi-product growth. Monday wants to sell the full platform &#8212; WM, CRM, Dev and Service. This means cross selling to customers where appropriate (not something that&#8217;s been a focus of Monday&#8217;s to date) and bundling products together (bundles officially launched in Q4&#8217;25). It also means staffing product specialists (i.e. sales reps specializing in CRM, Dev, Service and WM), which Monday calls &#8220;product overlays.&#8221; Monday ended FY24 with 33 &#8220;product overlays,&#8221; and anticipates increasing this number to ~125 by the end of FY26 </p></li><li><p>Accelerating upmarket. To Monday this means targeting the mid-market. They feel this is where their platform resonates most strongly, and is the next logical step up from SMB. To the enterprise, Monday can really only sell WM today. But to SMB and mid-market, Monday can sell their full suite. </p></li><li><p>Customer retention. Here Monday aims to enhance retention through (1) comp plans that incentivize retention, (2) more clear accountability over retention through &#8220;retention owners&#8221; and (3) by using AI to increase the number of &#8220;touches&#8221; that customers receive.</p></li></ul><div><hr></div><h2>Financial Performance</h2><p><em>Revenue Growth</em> </p><p>Monday has 15x&#8217;d revenue since 2019 &#8212; a 58% CAGR over this period. </p><p>The growth rate has slowed over time from 100%+ in 2020 to ~26% projected for 2025.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!CAqv!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcc51879d-1d5f-473f-b3b5-3fd61ac526c0_1545x1205.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!CAqv!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcc51879d-1d5f-473f-b3b5-3fd61ac526c0_1545x1205.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!CAqv!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcc51879d-1d5f-473f-b3b5-3fd61ac526c0_1545x1205.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!CAqv!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcc51879d-1d5f-473f-b3b5-3fd61ac526c0_1545x1205.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!CAqv!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcc51879d-1d5f-473f-b3b5-3fd61ac526c0_1545x1205.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!CAqv!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcc51879d-1d5f-473f-b3b5-3fd61ac526c0_1545x1205.png" width="555" height="433.02197802197804" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/cc51879d-1d5f-473f-b3b5-3fd61ac526c0_1545x1205.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1136,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:555,&quot;bytes&quot;:55063,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcc51879d-1d5f-473f-b3b5-3fd61ac526c0_1545x1205.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!CAqv!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcc51879d-1d5f-473f-b3b5-3fd61ac526c0_1545x1205.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!CAqv!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcc51879d-1d5f-473f-b3b5-3fd61ac526c0_1545x1205.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!CAqv!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcc51879d-1d5f-473f-b3b5-3fd61ac526c0_1545x1205.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!CAqv!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcc51879d-1d5f-473f-b3b5-3fd61ac526c0_1545x1205.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Here are the quarterly numbers. Monday has truly grown like clockwork.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ds1-!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc84c3072-f4cf-471f-811d-02964bcb4c83_1989x1265.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ds1-!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc84c3072-f4cf-471f-811d-02964bcb4c83_1989x1265.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ds1-!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc84c3072-f4cf-471f-811d-02964bcb4c83_1989x1265.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ds1-!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc84c3072-f4cf-471f-811d-02964bcb4c83_1989x1265.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ds1-!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc84c3072-f4cf-471f-811d-02964bcb4c83_1989x1265.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ds1-!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc84c3072-f4cf-471f-811d-02964bcb4c83_1989x1265.png" width="1456" height="926" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/c84c3072-f4cf-471f-811d-02964bcb4c83_1989x1265.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:926,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:131058,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc84c3072-f4cf-471f-811d-02964bcb4c83_1989x1265.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ds1-!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc84c3072-f4cf-471f-811d-02964bcb4c83_1989x1265.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ds1-!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc84c3072-f4cf-471f-811d-02964bcb4c83_1989x1265.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ds1-!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc84c3072-f4cf-471f-811d-02964bcb4c83_1989x1265.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ds1-!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc84c3072-f4cf-471f-811d-02964bcb4c83_1989x1265.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Monday enacted a price increase beginning in Jan-24 that added about ~$30m and ~$40m in revenue to 2024 and 2025e, respectively. In the absence of this price increase, YoY growth would&#8217;ve been ~29% and ~22% in 2024 and 2025e, respectively.</p><p><em>Customer Growth</em></p><p>Monday has 2.8x&#8217;d its customer base since 2019 &#8212; a 23% CAGR over this period.</p><p>Overall customer growth was very healthy until 2024. In 2024, customer growth was 9%, a big drop from 22%/21% in &#8216;22/&#8217;23, respectively.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!sDrW!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2fc68c24-da02-4d18-aa31-72988881d16a_1329x1265.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!sDrW!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2fc68c24-da02-4d18-aa31-72988881d16a_1329x1265.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!sDrW!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2fc68c24-da02-4d18-aa31-72988881d16a_1329x1265.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!sDrW!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2fc68c24-da02-4d18-aa31-72988881d16a_1329x1265.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!sDrW!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2fc68c24-da02-4d18-aa31-72988881d16a_1329x1265.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!sDrW!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2fc68c24-da02-4d18-aa31-72988881d16a_1329x1265.png" width="500" height="475.9217456734387" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/2fc68c24-da02-4d18-aa31-72988881d16a_1329x1265.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1265,&quot;width&quot;:1329,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:500,&quot;bytes&quot;:53410,&quot;alt&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2fc68c24-da02-4d18-aa31-72988881d16a_1329x1265.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" title="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!sDrW!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2fc68c24-da02-4d18-aa31-72988881d16a_1329x1265.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!sDrW!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2fc68c24-da02-4d18-aa31-72988881d16a_1329x1265.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!sDrW!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2fc68c24-da02-4d18-aa31-72988881d16a_1329x1265.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!sDrW!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2fc68c24-da02-4d18-aa31-72988881d16a_1329x1265.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Offsetting the slowing in overall customer growth has been strong growth in large customers. From almost none in 2019, Monday now counts almost 4k customers with $50k+ in ARR as of Q3&#8217;25. This segment has grown at a 111% CAGR since 2019, and grew 39% in 2024.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!TkxG!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff2d51419-069f-4967-9381-12c2ee6dee75_1329x1265.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!TkxG!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff2d51419-069f-4967-9381-12c2ee6dee75_1329x1265.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!TkxG!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff2d51419-069f-4967-9381-12c2ee6dee75_1329x1265.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!TkxG!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff2d51419-069f-4967-9381-12c2ee6dee75_1329x1265.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!TkxG!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff2d51419-069f-4967-9381-12c2ee6dee75_1329x1265.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!TkxG!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff2d51419-069f-4967-9381-12c2ee6dee75_1329x1265.png" width="502" height="477.8254326561324" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/f2d51419-069f-4967-9381-12c2ee6dee75_1329x1265.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1265,&quot;width&quot;:1329,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:502,&quot;bytes&quot;:53759,&quot;alt&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff2d51419-069f-4967-9381-12c2ee6dee75_1329x1265.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" title="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!TkxG!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff2d51419-069f-4967-9381-12c2ee6dee75_1329x1265.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!TkxG!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff2d51419-069f-4967-9381-12c2ee6dee75_1329x1265.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!TkxG!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff2d51419-069f-4967-9381-12c2ee6dee75_1329x1265.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!TkxG!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff2d51419-069f-4967-9381-12c2ee6dee75_1329x1265.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>While overall customer growth has slowed, Monday suffers from the law of large numbers more so than its peers. Monday has a huge number of customers&#8230;</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Zmnb!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9b72a60b-58e2-49a5-91de-a9253c04795d_1888x1653.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Zmnb!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9b72a60b-58e2-49a5-91de-a9253c04795d_1888x1653.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Zmnb!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9b72a60b-58e2-49a5-91de-a9253c04795d_1888x1653.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Zmnb!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9b72a60b-58e2-49a5-91de-a9253c04795d_1888x1653.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Zmnb!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9b72a60b-58e2-49a5-91de-a9253c04795d_1888x1653.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Zmnb!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9b72a60b-58e2-49a5-91de-a9253c04795d_1888x1653.png" width="685" height="599.845467032967" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/9b72a60b-58e2-49a5-91de-a9253c04795d_1888x1653.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1275,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:685,&quot;bytes&quot;:344505,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9b72a60b-58e2-49a5-91de-a9253c04795d_1888x1653.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Zmnb!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9b72a60b-58e2-49a5-91de-a9253c04795d_1888x1653.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Zmnb!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9b72a60b-58e2-49a5-91de-a9253c04795d_1888x1653.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Zmnb!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9b72a60b-58e2-49a5-91de-a9253c04795d_1888x1653.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Zmnb!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9b72a60b-58e2-49a5-91de-a9253c04795d_1888x1653.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Monday&#8217;s total customer count of 250k+ is way above its average peer. Monday is ~tied with HubSpot for the third highest customer count out of the peer group behind just Shopify and Atlassian. </p><p>But while Monday has a huge number of customers, within their base of customers (especially enterprise customers) they are severely underpenetrated relative to their potential opportunity.</p><p>Their experience with the Fortune 500 is illustrative. As of 2023, Monday had users within 61% of the Fortune 500, but its average penetration was &lt;1%. </p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!D4J_!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F37feee3c-ff03-4db5-a421-19cb69690ee1_1064x589.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!D4J_!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F37feee3c-ff03-4db5-a421-19cb69690ee1_1064x589.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!D4J_!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F37feee3c-ff03-4db5-a421-19cb69690ee1_1064x589.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!D4J_!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F37feee3c-ff03-4db5-a421-19cb69690ee1_1064x589.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!D4J_!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F37feee3c-ff03-4db5-a421-19cb69690ee1_1064x589.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!D4J_!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F37feee3c-ff03-4db5-a421-19cb69690ee1_1064x589.png" width="1064" height="589" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/37feee3c-ff03-4db5-a421-19cb69690ee1_1064x589.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:589,&quot;width&quot;:1064,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:337521,&quot;alt&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F37feee3c-ff03-4db5-a421-19cb69690ee1_1064x589.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" title="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!D4J_!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F37feee3c-ff03-4db5-a421-19cb69690ee1_1064x589.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!D4J_!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F37feee3c-ff03-4db5-a421-19cb69690ee1_1064x589.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!D4J_!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F37feee3c-ff03-4db5-a421-19cb69690ee1_1064x589.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!D4J_!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F37feee3c-ff03-4db5-a421-19cb69690ee1_1064x589.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>So while customer growth has slowed, we&#8217;ve continued to see solid NRRs&#8230;</p><p><em>Net Retention</em></p><p>Monday&#8217;s overall NRR has actually risen over time from 100% in 2019 to 112% in 2024. </p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!nv7b!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffee50b71-9e5f-43b6-b5ef-337315dd81fb_4116x2585.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!nv7b!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffee50b71-9e5f-43b6-b5ef-337315dd81fb_4116x2585.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!nv7b!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffee50b71-9e5f-43b6-b5ef-337315dd81fb_4116x2585.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!nv7b!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffee50b71-9e5f-43b6-b5ef-337315dd81fb_4116x2585.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!nv7b!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffee50b71-9e5f-43b6-b5ef-337315dd81fb_4116x2585.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!nv7b!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffee50b71-9e5f-43b6-b5ef-337315dd81fb_4116x2585.png" width="1456" height="914" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/fee50b71-9e5f-43b6-b5ef-337315dd81fb_4116x2585.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:914,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:832493,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffee50b71-9e5f-43b6-b5ef-337315dd81fb_4116x2585.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!nv7b!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffee50b71-9e5f-43b6-b5ef-337315dd81fb_4116x2585.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!nv7b!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffee50b71-9e5f-43b6-b5ef-337315dd81fb_4116x2585.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!nv7b!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffee50b71-9e5f-43b6-b5ef-337315dd81fb_4116x2585.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!nv7b!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffee50b71-9e5f-43b6-b5ef-337315dd81fb_4116x2585.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Below are quarterly figures through Q3&#8217;25.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!2aaO!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0a029435-5e1d-4ce7-b605-1501fc9b2f11_2230x1422.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!2aaO!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0a029435-5e1d-4ce7-b605-1501fc9b2f11_2230x1422.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!2aaO!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0a029435-5e1d-4ce7-b605-1501fc9b2f11_2230x1422.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!2aaO!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0a029435-5e1d-4ce7-b605-1501fc9b2f11_2230x1422.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!2aaO!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0a029435-5e1d-4ce7-b605-1501fc9b2f11_2230x1422.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!2aaO!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0a029435-5e1d-4ce7-b605-1501fc9b2f11_2230x1422.png" width="1456" height="928" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/0a029435-5e1d-4ce7-b605-1501fc9b2f11_2230x1422.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:928,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:174409,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0a029435-5e1d-4ce7-b605-1501fc9b2f11_2230x1422.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!2aaO!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0a029435-5e1d-4ce7-b605-1501fc9b2f11_2230x1422.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!2aaO!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0a029435-5e1d-4ce7-b605-1501fc9b2f11_2230x1422.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!2aaO!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0a029435-5e1d-4ce7-b605-1501fc9b2f11_2230x1422.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!2aaO!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0a029435-5e1d-4ce7-b605-1501fc9b2f11_2230x1422.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Below are NRRs across the peer group. The only peers with better overall NRRs (that report the figure) are Snowflake, Datadog and Crowdstrike (three companies that trade at an average LTM revenue multiple of ~25x vs. Monday at ~5x).</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!bV_t!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa573b4f1-114e-4959-ae4b-7ad3c22e8d43_1616x1669.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!bV_t!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa573b4f1-114e-4959-ae4b-7ad3c22e8d43_1616x1669.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!bV_t!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa573b4f1-114e-4959-ae4b-7ad3c22e8d43_1616x1669.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!bV_t!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa573b4f1-114e-4959-ae4b-7ad3c22e8d43_1616x1669.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!bV_t!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa573b4f1-114e-4959-ae4b-7ad3c22e8d43_1616x1669.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!bV_t!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa573b4f1-114e-4959-ae4b-7ad3c22e8d43_1616x1669.png" width="551" height="569.1648351648352" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/a573b4f1-114e-4959-ae4b-7ad3c22e8d43_1616x1669.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1504,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:551,&quot;bytes&quot;:214337,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa573b4f1-114e-4959-ae4b-7ad3c22e8d43_1616x1669.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!bV_t!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa573b4f1-114e-4959-ae4b-7ad3c22e8d43_1616x1669.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!bV_t!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa573b4f1-114e-4959-ae4b-7ad3c22e8d43_1616x1669.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!bV_t!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa573b4f1-114e-4959-ae4b-7ad3c22e8d43_1616x1669.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!bV_t!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa573b4f1-114e-4959-ae4b-7ad3c22e8d43_1616x1669.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>While Monday doesn&#8217;t disclose gross retention, management stated that gross retention was in the <a href="https://youtu.be/w3jzr1GWnZk?t=1858">mid-eighties</a> in a Sep-23 SaaStr interview. That, combined with the following chart, provided at their 2025 investor day, would indicate that gross retention is currently in the high-eighties range.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!GzT3!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F23ff89af-1062-46d1-aae8-ee7947ec12e9_1069x596.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!GzT3!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F23ff89af-1062-46d1-aae8-ee7947ec12e9_1069x596.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!GzT3!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F23ff89af-1062-46d1-aae8-ee7947ec12e9_1069x596.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!GzT3!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F23ff89af-1062-46d1-aae8-ee7947ec12e9_1069x596.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!GzT3!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F23ff89af-1062-46d1-aae8-ee7947ec12e9_1069x596.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!GzT3!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F23ff89af-1062-46d1-aae8-ee7947ec12e9_1069x596.png" width="1069" height="596" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/23ff89af-1062-46d1-aae8-ee7947ec12e9_1069x596.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:596,&quot;width&quot;:1069,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:103476,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F23ff89af-1062-46d1-aae8-ee7947ec12e9_1069x596.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!GzT3!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F23ff89af-1062-46d1-aae8-ee7947ec12e9_1069x596.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!GzT3!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F23ff89af-1062-46d1-aae8-ee7947ec12e9_1069x596.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!GzT3!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F23ff89af-1062-46d1-aae8-ee7947ec12e9_1069x596.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!GzT3!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F23ff89af-1062-46d1-aae8-ee7947ec12e9_1069x596.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Impressively, as we can see above, Monday&#8217;s current gross retention is at an all-time high, which no doubt has to do with their move up market. </p><p><em>Margins</em></p><p>Gross margins sit at 89% as of 2024. They have climbed ~450 bps since 2019, representing an average annual increase of ~93 bps.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!EVxS!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3af378f1-a3b4-4544-bb5c-9c11633ce5e1_1650x1659.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!EVxS!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3af378f1-a3b4-4544-bb5c-9c11633ce5e1_1650x1659.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!EVxS!, 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3af378f1-a3b4-4544-bb5c-9c11633ce5e1_1650x1659.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!EVxS!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3af378f1-a3b4-4544-bb5c-9c11633ce5e1_1650x1659.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!EVxS!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3af378f1-a3b4-4544-bb5c-9c11633ce5e1_1650x1659.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!EVxS!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3af378f1-a3b4-4544-bb5c-9c11633ce5e1_1650x1659.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Monday&#8217;s GMs are in line with best-in-class SaaS peers.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!IxP2!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fff8be626-162a-4e0c-8185-4ded77637218_2008x1777.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!IxP2!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fff8be626-162a-4e0c-8185-4ded77637218_2008x1777.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!IxP2!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fff8be626-162a-4e0c-8185-4ded77637218_2008x1777.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!IxP2!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fff8be626-162a-4e0c-8185-4ded77637218_2008x1777.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!IxP2!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fff8be626-162a-4e0c-8185-4ded77637218_2008x1777.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!IxP2!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fff8be626-162a-4e0c-8185-4ded77637218_2008x1777.png" width="1456" height="1289" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/ff8be626-162a-4e0c-8185-4ded77637218_2008x1777.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1289,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:349990,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fff8be626-162a-4e0c-8185-4ded77637218_2008x1777.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!IxP2!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fff8be626-162a-4e0c-8185-4ded77637218_2008x1777.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!IxP2!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fff8be626-162a-4e0c-8185-4ded77637218_2008x1777.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!IxP2!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fff8be626-162a-4e0c-8185-4ded77637218_2008x1777.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!IxP2!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fff8be626-162a-4e0c-8185-4ded77637218_2008x1777.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Overall opex as a % of revenue has declined from 203% in 2019 to 91% in 2024. </p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!D9YZ!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8f3e22e2-ba15-4b97-a8d5-b79be425cc4a_1650x1659.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!D9YZ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8f3e22e2-ba15-4b97-a8d5-b79be425cc4a_1650x1659.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!D9YZ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8f3e22e2-ba15-4b97-a8d5-b79be425cc4a_1650x1659.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!D9YZ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8f3e22e2-ba15-4b97-a8d5-b79be425cc4a_1650x1659.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!D9YZ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8f3e22e2-ba15-4b97-a8d5-b79be425cc4a_1650x1659.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!D9YZ!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8f3e22e2-ba15-4b97-a8d5-b79be425cc4a_1650x1659.png" width="547" height="550.0054945054945" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/8f3e22e2-ba15-4b97-a8d5-b79be425cc4a_1650x1659.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1464,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:547,&quot;bytes&quot;:87436,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8f3e22e2-ba15-4b97-a8d5-b79be425cc4a_1650x1659.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!D9YZ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8f3e22e2-ba15-4b97-a8d5-b79be425cc4a_1650x1659.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!D9YZ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8f3e22e2-ba15-4b97-a8d5-b79be425cc4a_1650x1659.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!D9YZ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8f3e22e2-ba15-4b97-a8d5-b79be425cc4a_1650x1659.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!D9YZ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8f3e22e2-ba15-4b97-a8d5-b79be425cc4a_1650x1659.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>R&amp;D as a % of revenue is surprisingly low for a relatively smaller scale SaaS business. It sits today at 22%, which is down from 32% in 2019 (representing a decrease of ~191 bps per year). </p><p>At 22%, it is well below the median of its SaaS peers (~27%). The only SaaS peers with &lt;20% on this metric (Salesforce, Shopify, Intuit, and Adobe) have at least $10bn of revenue, or 10x+ that of Monday&#8217;s.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ilrA!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F96a2070d-9b4f-4115-8a07-4f88903f4612_2235x1757.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ilrA!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F96a2070d-9b4f-4115-8a07-4f88903f4612_2235x1757.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ilrA!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F96a2070d-9b4f-4115-8a07-4f88903f4612_2235x1757.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ilrA!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F96a2070d-9b4f-4115-8a07-4f88903f4612_2235x1757.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ilrA!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F96a2070d-9b4f-4115-8a07-4f88903f4612_2235x1757.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ilrA!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F96a2070d-9b4f-4115-8a07-4f88903f4612_2235x1757.png" width="1456" height="1145" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/96a2070d-9b4f-4115-8a07-4f88903f4612_2235x1757.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1145,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:399140,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F96a2070d-9b4f-4115-8a07-4f88903f4612_2235x1757.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ilrA!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F96a2070d-9b4f-4115-8a07-4f88903f4612_2235x1757.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ilrA!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F96a2070d-9b4f-4115-8a07-4f88903f4612_2235x1757.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ilrA!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F96a2070d-9b4f-4115-8a07-4f88903f4612_2235x1757.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ilrA!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F96a2070d-9b4f-4115-8a07-4f88903f4612_2235x1757.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>G&amp;A has declined ~500 bps since 2019 and sits at 15% of revenue. This is on the high side vs. peers (peer group median is ~10-11%) and should decline over time with scale.</p><p>The biggest decline by far has come in S&amp;M, which has dropped as a % of revenue from 152% in 2019 to 55% in 2024. Around a third of S&amp;M spend is performance marketing, with the balance consisting of payroll for sales, customer success, partner channel, and related. </p><p>While S&amp;M spend has fallen quickly, Monday still spends well above the median peer. Monday spent 55% of revenue on S&amp;M in 2024, which was the highest amongst the peer set other than Asana.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!IM6f!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3091efba-a6c0-4e42-9949-6ba218868c91_2235x1726.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!IM6f!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3091efba-a6c0-4e42-9949-6ba218868c91_2235x1726.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!IM6f!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3091efba-a6c0-4e42-9949-6ba218868c91_2235x1726.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!IM6f!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3091efba-a6c0-4e42-9949-6ba218868c91_2235x1726.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!IM6f!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3091efba-a6c0-4e42-9949-6ba218868c91_2235x1726.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!IM6f!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3091efba-a6c0-4e42-9949-6ba218868c91_2235x1726.png" width="1456" height="1124" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/3091efba-a6c0-4e42-9949-6ba218868c91_2235x1726.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1124,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:404420,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3091efba-a6c0-4e42-9949-6ba218868c91_2235x1726.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!IM6f!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3091efba-a6c0-4e42-9949-6ba218868c91_2235x1726.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!IM6f!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3091efba-a6c0-4e42-9949-6ba218868c91_2235x1726.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!IM6f!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3091efba-a6c0-4e42-9949-6ba218868c91_2235x1726.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!IM6f!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3091efba-a6c0-4e42-9949-6ba218868c91_2235x1726.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>However, while S&amp;M as a % of revenue is elevated relative to peers, S&amp;M spend has been relatively efficient. Monday&#8217;s GM adjusted CAC payback on its S&amp;M spend has hovered around the mid 20s (average of 27 months since Q3&#8217;19).</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ZYoX!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3f2cd4c0-667d-4ab2-985b-bcfde596577b_1964x1458.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ZYoX!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3f2cd4c0-667d-4ab2-985b-bcfde596577b_1964x1458.png 424w, 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3f2cd4c0-667d-4ab2-985b-bcfde596577b_1964x1458.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ZYoX!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3f2cd4c0-667d-4ab2-985b-bcfde596577b_1964x1458.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ZYoX!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3f2cd4c0-667d-4ab2-985b-bcfde596577b_1964x1458.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ZYoX!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3f2cd4c0-667d-4ab2-985b-bcfde596577b_1964x1458.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>For 2024, Monday generated a CAC payback of 29 months, which is slightly below the horizontal SaaS peer median:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!S43Q!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd0e55ae2-0bf4-4b39-9954-f6852e2e2355_1616x1910.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!S43Q!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd0e55ae2-0bf4-4b39-9954-f6852e2e2355_1616x1910.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!S43Q!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd0e55ae2-0bf4-4b39-9954-f6852e2e2355_1616x1910.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!S43Q!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd0e55ae2-0bf4-4b39-9954-f6852e2e2355_1616x1910.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!S43Q!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd0e55ae2-0bf4-4b39-9954-f6852e2e2355_1616x1910.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!S43Q!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd0e55ae2-0bf4-4b39-9954-f6852e2e2355_1616x1910.png" width="550" height="650.103021978022" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/d0e55ae2-0bf4-4b39-9954-f6852e2e2355_1616x1910.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1721,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:550,&quot;bytes&quot;:229610,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd0e55ae2-0bf4-4b39-9954-f6852e2e2355_1616x1910.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!S43Q!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd0e55ae2-0bf4-4b39-9954-f6852e2e2355_1616x1910.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!S43Q!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd0e55ae2-0bf4-4b39-9954-f6852e2e2355_1616x1910.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!S43Q!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd0e55ae2-0bf4-4b39-9954-f6852e2e2355_1616x1910.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!S43Q!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd0e55ae2-0bf4-4b39-9954-f6852e2e2355_1616x1910.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>And this is despite a significant ramp in Monday&#8217;s S&amp;M spend in 2024 that would have been a drag on efficiency (as new reps take 12+ months to fully ramp).</p><p>Monday slowed hiring significantly in 2023, which led to an inflection in margins. The company has since reaccelerated hiring, but that pace is expected to slow again through H2&#8217;25 and into 2026.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-15" href="#footnote-15" target="_self">15</a> </p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!RNTE!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fae7ea3dd-0ab9-4572-a325-c23e1e45d74b_1465x1265.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!RNTE!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fae7ea3dd-0ab9-4572-a325-c23e1e45d74b_1465x1265.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!RNTE!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fae7ea3dd-0ab9-4572-a325-c23e1e45d74b_1465x1265.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!RNTE!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fae7ea3dd-0ab9-4572-a325-c23e1e45d74b_1465x1265.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!RNTE!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fae7ea3dd-0ab9-4572-a325-c23e1e45d74b_1465x1265.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!RNTE!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fae7ea3dd-0ab9-4572-a325-c23e1e45d74b_1465x1265.png" width="553" height="477.4182692307692" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/ae7ea3dd-0ab9-4572-a325-c23e1e45d74b_1465x1265.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1257,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:553,&quot;bytes&quot;:102222,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fae7ea3dd-0ab9-4572-a325-c23e1e45d74b_1465x1265.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!RNTE!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fae7ea3dd-0ab9-4572-a325-c23e1e45d74b_1465x1265.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!RNTE!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fae7ea3dd-0ab9-4572-a325-c23e1e45d74b_1465x1265.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!RNTE!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fae7ea3dd-0ab9-4572-a325-c23e1e45d74b_1465x1265.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!RNTE!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fae7ea3dd-0ab9-4572-a325-c23e1e45d74b_1465x1265.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Overall, the operating margin has inflected sharply over the past 5 years from deep in the red to breakeven on a GAAP basis and 14% on a non-GAAP basis. </p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ccpA!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffc2e546e-5d81-4737-a52b-a4913a2d0aac_1650x1658.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ccpA!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffc2e546e-5d81-4737-a52b-a4913a2d0aac_1650x1658.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ccpA!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffc2e546e-5d81-4737-a52b-a4913a2d0aac_1650x1658.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ccpA!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffc2e546e-5d81-4737-a52b-a4913a2d0aac_1650x1658.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ccpA!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffc2e546e-5d81-4737-a52b-a4913a2d0aac_1650x1658.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ccpA!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffc2e546e-5d81-4737-a52b-a4913a2d0aac_1650x1658.png" width="550" height="552.6442307692307" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/fc2e546e-5d81-4737-a52b-a4913a2d0aac_1650x1658.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1463,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:550,&quot;bytes&quot;:85703,&quot;alt&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffc2e546e-5d81-4737-a52b-a4913a2d0aac_1650x1658.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" title="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ccpA!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffc2e546e-5d81-4737-a52b-a4913a2d0aac_1650x1658.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ccpA!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffc2e546e-5d81-4737-a52b-a4913a2d0aac_1650x1658.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ccpA!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffc2e546e-5d81-4737-a52b-a4913a2d0aac_1650x1658.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ccpA!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffc2e546e-5d81-4737-a52b-a4913a2d0aac_1650x1658.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Monday really shines when it comes to FCF margin:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!cp0p!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4f65715a-4aec-412e-9f18-abc0609187be_1650x1659.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!cp0p!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4f65715a-4aec-412e-9f18-abc0609187be_1650x1659.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!cp0p!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4f65715a-4aec-412e-9f18-abc0609187be_1650x1659.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!cp0p!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4f65715a-4aec-412e-9f18-abc0609187be_1650x1659.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!cp0p!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4f65715a-4aec-412e-9f18-abc0609187be_1650x1659.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!cp0p!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4f65715a-4aec-412e-9f18-abc0609187be_1650x1659.png" width="553" height="556.0384615384615" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/4f65715a-4aec-412e-9f18-abc0609187be_1650x1659.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1464,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:553,&quot;bytes&quot;:29564,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4f65715a-4aec-412e-9f18-abc0609187be_1650x1659.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!cp0p!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4f65715a-4aec-412e-9f18-abc0609187be_1650x1659.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!cp0p!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4f65715a-4aec-412e-9f18-abc0609187be_1650x1659.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!cp0p!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4f65715a-4aec-412e-9f18-abc0609187be_1650x1659.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!cp0p!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4f65715a-4aec-412e-9f18-abc0609187be_1650x1659.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Monday outperforms on FCF because they put a strong emphasis on collecting cash upfront from customers. As we can see below from their Sep-25 investor day, ~83% of customers pay upfront (I believe all yearly and multi-year contracts require upfront payment).</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4Q5S!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6e2929ad-24fe-4785-bcbb-cf3e072dcd47_3614x2028.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4Q5S!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6e2929ad-24fe-4785-bcbb-cf3e072dcd47_3614x2028.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4Q5S!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6e2929ad-24fe-4785-bcbb-cf3e072dcd47_3614x2028.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4Q5S!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6e2929ad-24fe-4785-bcbb-cf3e072dcd47_3614x2028.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4Q5S!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6e2929ad-24fe-4785-bcbb-cf3e072dcd47_3614x2028.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4Q5S!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6e2929ad-24fe-4785-bcbb-cf3e072dcd47_3614x2028.png" width="1456" height="817" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/6e2929ad-24fe-4785-bcbb-cf3e072dcd47_3614x2028.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:817,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:864565,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6e2929ad-24fe-4785-bcbb-cf3e072dcd47_3614x2028.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4Q5S!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6e2929ad-24fe-4785-bcbb-cf3e072dcd47_3614x2028.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4Q5S!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6e2929ad-24fe-4785-bcbb-cf3e072dcd47_3614x2028.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4Q5S!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6e2929ad-24fe-4785-bcbb-cf3e072dcd47_3614x2028.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4Q5S!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6e2929ad-24fe-4785-bcbb-cf3e072dcd47_3614x2028.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Here is Monday&#8217;s FCF margin vs. the peer set:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!-hrW!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb6c9e928-e6cb-42c8-ada7-5226c1e47624_2234x1760.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!-hrW!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb6c9e928-e6cb-42c8-ada7-5226c1e47624_2234x1760.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!-hrW!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb6c9e928-e6cb-42c8-ada7-5226c1e47624_2234x1760.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!-hrW!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb6c9e928-e6cb-42c8-ada7-5226c1e47624_2234x1760.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!-hrW!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb6c9e928-e6cb-42c8-ada7-5226c1e47624_2234x1760.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!-hrW!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb6c9e928-e6cb-42c8-ada7-5226c1e47624_2234x1760.png" width="1456" height="1147" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/b6c9e928-e6cb-42c8-ada7-5226c1e47624_2234x1760.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1147,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:218184,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb6c9e928-e6cb-42c8-ada7-5226c1e47624_2234x1760.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!-hrW!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb6c9e928-e6cb-42c8-ada7-5226c1e47624_2234x1760.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!-hrW!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb6c9e928-e6cb-42c8-ada7-5226c1e47624_2234x1760.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!-hrW!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb6c9e928-e6cb-42c8-ada7-5226c1e47624_2234x1760.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!-hrW!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb6c9e928-e6cb-42c8-ada7-5226c1e47624_2234x1760.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Over time as growth slows, FCF margin will converge with Monday&#8217;s non-GAAP operating margin (less tax expense). </p><div><hr></div><h2>Investment Merits</h2><p><em>Highly Attractive Financial Model</em></p><p>Monday benefits from 100% recurring revenue, ~90% GMs, high operating leverage and strong excess cash flow generation. </p><p>But in addition to these fine characteristics (shared by best-in-class SaaS peers), there are some unique aspects to Monday&#8217;s model that make them potentially even superior to other high-quality SaaS companies.</p><ul><li><p>Very efficient R&amp;D function. Monday is &#8220;platform first&#8221; in its product development, which has led to a highly efficient R&amp;D function without sacrificing (actually improving<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-16" href="#footnote-16" target="_self">16</a>) the quality of its products. Once the platform is in place, each additional offering (thin &#8220;layers&#8221; built on top of the platform) is much quicker and less costly to develop<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-17" href="#footnote-17" target="_self">17</a><a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-18" href="#footnote-18" target="_self">18</a></p></li><li><p>Better growth &#8220;durability.&#8221; Monday is like a tapeworm. Monday doesn&#8217;t generally make big upfront sales of licenses, like a CRM might or an ERP might. It makes a small initial sale, then it spreads &#8212; from one division to another, from one geo to another, and eventually to other products. Thus, Monday&#8217;s growth should, in theory, demonstrate more &#8220;durability&#8221; with more sustainable NRRs (which we&#8217;ve seen) than perhaps your typical software company. </p></li></ul><p><em>Huge TAM</em></p><p>Monday&#8217;s TAM is enormous. At its 2025 investor day, Monday estimated its total TAM is $158B, growing 12%. This consists of WM ($58B), CRM ($32B), Dev ($23B) and Service ($45B).</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!WBcv!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffbb9d294-6b72-4d75-819e-50efd9d91382_1103x613.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!WBcv!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffbb9d294-6b72-4d75-819e-50efd9d91382_1103x613.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!WBcv!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffbb9d294-6b72-4d75-819e-50efd9d91382_1103x613.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!WBcv!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffbb9d294-6b72-4d75-819e-50efd9d91382_1103x613.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!WBcv!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffbb9d294-6b72-4d75-819e-50efd9d91382_1103x613.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!WBcv!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffbb9d294-6b72-4d75-819e-50efd9d91382_1103x613.png" width="1103" height="613" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/fbb9d294-6b72-4d75-819e-50efd9d91382_1103x613.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:613,&quot;width&quot;:1103,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:252747,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffbb9d294-6b72-4d75-819e-50efd9d91382_1103x613.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!WBcv!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffbb9d294-6b72-4d75-819e-50efd9d91382_1103x613.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!WBcv!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffbb9d294-6b72-4d75-819e-50efd9d91382_1103x613.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!WBcv!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffbb9d294-6b72-4d75-819e-50efd9d91382_1103x613.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!WBcv!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffbb9d294-6b72-4d75-819e-50efd9d91382_1103x613.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Just about all of WM seems addressable, in theory, given Monday can serve SMB through the Fortune 100 (and any business vertical, and any geo). If we assume all of WM is serviceable, but only ~30% of CRM (mid-market and below), ~30% of Service (mid-market and below) and ~10% of Dev (SMB), that leaves a SAM of ~$80B.</p><p>Using a $80BN SAM, this would imply Monday is &lt;2% penetrated into its market opportunity. Within just Work Management, where Monday is arguably the market leader, they are just ~2% penetrated.</p><p><em>Naturally Differentiated Products</em></p><p>Monday wins the same way across all its products &#8212; flexibility. What&#8217;s great about this, is that this flexibility is inherent to the Monday platform. So any product built on top of its platform (i.e. all of its products) benefits from this.</p><p>From 2023 investor day:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;Another important point about products that are built on top of the platform, is that <strong>every product that we build on top of the platform actually inherent all the advantages that people love about Monday</strong>. So if you look at reviews on CRM, for instance, and Dev, you won&#8217;t see specific features. You won&#8217;t see customers love it because of a specific feature or deep feature within the CRM. <strong>Rather, they&#8217;ll say, they love the customization abilities</strong>, the first time to adopted the flexibility, and of course, there is a fuse.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>More quotes on the uniqueness of what Monday provides.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-19" href="#footnote-19" target="_self">19</a><a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-20" href="#footnote-20" target="_self">20</a></p><p>While being more customizable is great, it goes without saying that for that to work, prospective customers need to want this. And here I&#8217;d say what Monday management preaches seems generally correct: that SMB products tend to be cheaper but more &#8220;rigid,&#8221; while enterprise products tend to be more customizable with all the bells &amp; whistles, but more expensive to set up and maintain. Thus a gap of sorts exists in the market which Monday fills nicely. From a May-24 JPM conference:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;What I&#8217;m trying to explain to investors is that we offer something that&#8217;s very different from the current solutions in the market today. For example, in the CRM space, right now, we -- when we compete on deals, we might see a Pipedrive or Zoho or HubSpot. And I actually did quite a lot of user interviews like why are you choosing Monday over one of those players? And <strong>the answer is always the same.</strong></em></p><p><em><strong>Although we&#8217;re missing features compared to, let&#8217;s say HubSpot. The main reason is that they want that customizability to their product.</strong> At some point, when you use what we call a rigid product, you want to have your own workflows. You want to create something that&#8217;s kind of unique to how you work as a sales team.</em></p><p><em>And then usually, the next stop for most of those customers was to use Salesforce because it&#8217;s an enterprise software, you could build anything you want with their API. But it&#8217;s very costly to set up and very costly to maintain, and the license cost is very high. So for them, <strong>seeing Monday as an alternative was something they didn&#8217;t have before</strong> because Monday gives a product that is as customizable, let&#8217;s say, as a Salesforce as a ServiceNow. But it&#8217;s very easy to use. It doesn&#8217;t cost a lot to customize and you can do it yourself. And that&#8217;s a huge benefit in each one of those categories.</em></p><p><em>And even though we might be competing with a dozen other vendors in that space, <strong>nobody can offer the same level of customizability that we offer as a platform</strong> in any one of those verticals. <strong>And customers get it.</strong> They want to buy a platform. They want to have that power over their destiny, and this is why we win most of those deals.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>We see Monday&#8217;s differentiation show up in its reviews from G2 and Gartner, where Monday is amongst the highest rated products consistently (if not the highest rated). </p><p>A nice thing about differentiating through core flexibility (vs. say certain features), is that it&#8217;s less readily copied by competitors. Having this flexibility requires a certain architecture to the product from the outset. It is very, very difficult to re-architect your products once you&#8217;ve already scaled them up. </p><p>From the Dec-24 NASDAQ conference:</p><blockquote><p><em>Roy Mann (Co-CEO)</em></p><p><em>&#8220;I think it&#8217;s true for a lot of companies like everyone want to be a platform, but the question is like are you built in that way? Like for us, it&#8217;s not -- we didn&#8217;t build a project management tool or a CRM. We built like a database that can be adapted to anything. We build like expandable UI set that everyone can build on top of. And essentially, that&#8217;s like how our infrastructure is built. So <strong>it&#8217;s really hard to become a platform post building stuff</strong> because you need to then go back and like tear out stuff. So we did it like day 1. And yes...&#8221;</em></p><p><em>Robert McCooey (Analyst)</em></p><p><em>&#8220;That probably is one of the keys to the success, right?&#8221;</em></p><p><em>Roy Mann (Co-CEO)</em></p><p><em>&#8220;Definitely. And customers -- so it also gives us different go-to-market, which is like allows us to grow faster. It gives us -- <strong>it gives customers the knowledge they&#8217;re never going to hit the wall, whatever they want to develop further on or customize, they know they can do it, and that wins deals</strong>.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p><em>Strong Initial Traction in the Enterprise</em></p><p>Monday has only recently become a viable product for the enterprise.</p><p>And this only applies for WM. Monday seems pretty far from enterprise-ready in the rest of the suite &#8212; CRM, Service, and Dev.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-21" href="#footnote-21" target="_self">21</a> There&#8217;s no clearer example of their non-enterprise readiness in CRM than the fact that Monday itself uses Salesforce for its CRM, not Monday.</p><p>But going up market Monday is. And it does seem to be working quite well. See chart of Monday $50K+ ARR customers below:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!I_Ty!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3f4a4177-532e-42db-b551-420f90a81d77_1329x1265.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!I_Ty!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3f4a4177-532e-42db-b551-420f90a81d77_1329x1265.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!I_Ty!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3f4a4177-532e-42db-b551-420f90a81d77_1329x1265.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!I_Ty!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3f4a4177-532e-42db-b551-420f90a81d77_1329x1265.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!I_Ty!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3f4a4177-532e-42db-b551-420f90a81d77_1329x1265.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!I_Ty!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3f4a4177-532e-42db-b551-420f90a81d77_1329x1265.png" width="559" height="532.0805116629044" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/3f4a4177-532e-42db-b551-420f90a81d77_1329x1265.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1265,&quot;width&quot;:1329,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:559,&quot;bytes&quot;:53759,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3f4a4177-532e-42db-b551-420f90a81d77_1329x1265.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!I_Ty!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3f4a4177-532e-42db-b551-420f90a81d77_1329x1265.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!I_Ty!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3f4a4177-532e-42db-b551-420f90a81d77_1329x1265.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!I_Ty!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3f4a4177-532e-42db-b551-420f90a81d77_1329x1265.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!I_Ty!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3f4a4177-532e-42db-b551-420f90a81d77_1329x1265.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>And quarterly customers across the $50K+, $100K+ and $500K+ categories (YoY growth actually accelerated in Q3&#8217;25 across each of these buckets):</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NlbK!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F492094b8-9e39-4284-b0ea-aebb365691ae_808x448.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NlbK!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F492094b8-9e39-4284-b0ea-aebb365691ae_808x448.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NlbK!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F492094b8-9e39-4284-b0ea-aebb365691ae_808x448.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NlbK!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F492094b8-9e39-4284-b0ea-aebb365691ae_808x448.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NlbK!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F492094b8-9e39-4284-b0ea-aebb365691ae_808x448.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NlbK!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F492094b8-9e39-4284-b0ea-aebb365691ae_808x448.png" width="808" height="448" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/492094b8-9e39-4284-b0ea-aebb365691ae_808x448.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:448,&quot;width&quot;:808,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:91163,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F492094b8-9e39-4284-b0ea-aebb365691ae_808x448.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NlbK!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F492094b8-9e39-4284-b0ea-aebb365691ae_808x448.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NlbK!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F492094b8-9e39-4284-b0ea-aebb365691ae_808x448.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NlbK!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F492094b8-9e39-4284-b0ea-aebb365691ae_808x448.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NlbK!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F492094b8-9e39-4284-b0ea-aebb365691ae_808x448.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>~40% of Monday&#8217;s ARR now comes from the $50K+ cohort, representing a massive shift from 2019, when just ~5% of ARR came from the cohort:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!JMNN!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2ea4e219-8bf6-43b1-b1b7-0e5c42c3c5f8_879x491.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!JMNN!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2ea4e219-8bf6-43b1-b1b7-0e5c42c3c5f8_879x491.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!JMNN!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2ea4e219-8bf6-43b1-b1b7-0e5c42c3c5f8_879x491.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!JMNN!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2ea4e219-8bf6-43b1-b1b7-0e5c42c3c5f8_879x491.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!JMNN!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2ea4e219-8bf6-43b1-b1b7-0e5c42c3c5f8_879x491.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!JMNN!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2ea4e219-8bf6-43b1-b1b7-0e5c42c3c5f8_879x491.png" width="879" height="491" 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2ea4e219-8bf6-43b1-b1b7-0e5c42c3c5f8_879x491.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!JMNN!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2ea4e219-8bf6-43b1-b1b7-0e5c42c3c5f8_879x491.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" 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until ~2 years ago in Dec-23, Monday&#8217;s largest customer was 7k seats (which had been Monday&#8217;s largest customer, I believe, since its IPO in Jun-21). In Dec-23, Monday closed a 25k seat deal. Then a couple quarters later, in Q2&#8217;24, Monday closed an 80k seat deal for a healthcare business. Meanwhile its new 25k customer, a quarter later in Q3&#8217;24, upped their seat count to 60k. So in the span of less than 1 year, Monday went from a top customer of 7k to having two customers with seat counts roughly ~10x larger (60k and 80k). </p><p>Enterprise readiness has resulted from (1) new features/functionality geared towards the enterprise (e.g. permissions, audit logs, domain block and IP restriction) and (2) perhaps most importantly, a reworking of Monday&#8217;s underlying database (an initiative called MondayDB) to allow for faster load times while working with large sets of data.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-22" href="#footnote-22" target="_self">22</a></p><p>Here&#8217;s a rough, non-exhaustive timeline of enterprise-oriented feature releases:</p><ul><li><p>Q4&#8217;22: Custom role based account permissions</p></li><li><p>Q2&#8217;23</p><ul><li><p>MondayDB 1.0: large boards loaded at &lt;4 seconds</p></li><li><p>Multi-regional support (EU &amp; Aus)</p></li></ul></li><li><p>Q3&#8217;23: Premium support</p></li><li><p>Q4&#8217;23: Adds 25k-seat customer</p></li><li><p>Q1&#8217;24: MondayDB 2.0: 100k items per board, 500k items per dashboard</p></li><li><p>Q2&#8217;24: Adds 80k-seat customer</p></li><li><p>Q1&#8217;25:</p><ul><li><p>MondayDB 3.0 Premium: 1mm items per board, 5mm items per dashboard</p></li><li><p>Enterprise Project Management (EPM) offering: sits atop work management, allows for managing projects at scale, allows CIO to enforce more standardization/structure in Monday through a company, better resource planning capabilities</p></li></ul></li></ul><p>In addition to the product not being ready for the enterprise, the GTM motion wasn&#8217;t either. As discussed in the GTM section, prior to 2018 in fact, Monday didn&#8217;t have much of a sales team at all. The company had been pure self-serve, PLG. Starting in 2018, the company made a rapid about-face.</p><p><em>CRM + Service</em></p><p>CRM was launched in Aug-22. Just three years later, in Aug-25, CRM crossed $100m in ARR. For a SaaS business, as we can see below, that&#8217;s quite good. In fact, if it were a standalone start-up, it would&#8217;ve been one of the fastest growing SaaS start-ups ever. </p><div class="image-gallery-embed" data-attrs="{&quot;gallery&quot;:{&quot;images&quot;:[{&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/6b15649d-1962-4fb8-8642-5237c284faf8_883x465.png&quot;},{&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/768e0c64-8555-4896-b98d-508c318443d7_578x385.png&quot;}],&quot;caption&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;alt&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;staticGalleryImage&quot;:{&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/c6ff82bd-6ab8-4887-901b-936c82068740_1456x720.png&quot;}},&quot;isEditorNode&quot;:true}"></div><p>Of course it had a big advantage in that it could cross sell into Monday&#8217;s existing customer base, some of whom were already using Monday as a CRM. But regardless, I think it&#8217;s fair to say that CRM has been a solid win for Monday thus far.</p><p>In a Feb-25 interview with SaaStr, Eran details some of the reasons behind Monday&#8217;s success in CRM. This is a long exchange, but I think illuminating:</p><blockquote><p><em>Eran:</em></p><p><em>&#8220;You mentioned CRM. We have great momentum with CRM and we&#8217;re super proud of the growth. It&#8217;s actually growing faster than what Monday did back in the day, which is pretty impressive.&#8221;</em></p><p><em>Jason Lemkin:</em></p><p><em>&#8220;Broadly speaking, CRM is the one of the oldest and most crowded categories, right? And so your smallest customers they might have nothing, right? But as you get just a little bigger, there&#8217;s some conflict with another vendor. So why is it working at that level because it&#8217;s not greenfield in some cases, right?&#8221;</em></p><p><em>Eran:</em></p><p><em>&#8220;Yeah so I would say it boils down to two main reasons. </em></p><p><em><strong>One, which I think is a little bit underestimated, is the flexibility of the Monday platform.</strong> People, when they buy, whether it&#8217;s a CRM or Service or whatever it is, I think the SMB segment usually or the mid-market segment, is usually the players are, what I refer to as, rigid software. It&#8217;s software that probably has a great user interface, but it&#8217;s very hard to customize. And if you want to further customize it, you have to go enterprise. You have to buy like the big enterprise companies that offer 100% flexibility. But the problem there, is the cost of doing that and the complexity of doing that, in those enterprise companies, is far greater than any other platforms. <strong>We offer the best of both worlds. You can customize Monday to infinity, basically. But it&#8217;s easy to use and you can do it yourself.</strong> So that&#8217;s reason number one&#8230;</em></p><p><em>And the second one, which is a big part of our strategy going forward, and also I think maybe a little bit underestimated, is that <strong>people want to connect between the different softwares</strong>. I think softwares today inherently creates silos within the organization. Somebody have access to Salesforce, usually the sales team &#8212; the marketing team or the product team doesn&#8217;t have access. Same goes for Zendesk or any other SaaS tool you&#8217;re using. And then you essentially creating silos of information between different teams, just the nature of using different SaaS tools. And people, when they buy multiple products from Monday, and because it&#8217;s kind of multiple products for different departments, they love the fact that data flows between different products. They love the fact that they create a dashboard that shows them a picture of what&#8217;s going on all the way from the Service to the Work Management to the CRM tool. <strong>And I think over time as we scale those products and gain more momentum in enterprise companies, we&#8217;ll be able to sell bundles of those products</strong> and people will buy the Monday brand, hopefully.&#8221;</em></p><p><em>Jason Lemkin:</em></p><p><em>&#8220;Yeah I think that&#8217;s a great point. I think there&#8217;s been a lot of discussion about platforms versus standalone vendors as there&#8217;s been consolidation. But I think it&#8217;s not really that &#8212; it&#8217;s if you could have it all work on one platform, you&#8217;d want to. Who in their right mind wants &#8212; now sometimes you have to and Monday got started as a point solution because you had something special and so it&#8217;s not an either or &#8212; but, no one in their right mind wants 11 vendors. Especially today, when it&#8217;s harder to get them to integrate, when prices are up everywhere, right? Why would you want that?&#8221;</em></p><p><em>Eran Zinman</em></p><p><em>&#8220;And especially now that AI becomes more dominant. <strong>You want AI to have more access to more information across the different products. And you get more benefit from that,</strong> so definitely. And because of that, you don&#8217;t necessarily have to have the best CRM in the world. It might be second place, but because of that integration and because of that data flows between the different products, you get such huge benefit from that, that it&#8217;s a huge advantage.</em>&#8221;</p></blockquote><p>At the same time, Service (launched Feb-25) is actually growing faster than Sales CRM was at the same stage of development.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!6Upn!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fde0686d0-9841-447b-81bc-c8c81ac36e09_1100x615.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!6Upn!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, 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/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!6Upn!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fde0686d0-9841-447b-81bc-c8c81ac36e09_1100x615.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!6Upn!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fde0686d0-9841-447b-81bc-c8c81ac36e09_1100x615.png" width="1100" height="615" 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fde0686d0-9841-447b-81bc-c8c81ac36e09_1100x615.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!6Upn!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fde0686d0-9841-447b-81bc-c8c81ac36e09_1100x615.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>And there are reasons to believe that Service is actually a much more natural cross sell opportunity for Monday than CRM. Here is Eran talking about why in a Feb-25 SaaStr interview:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;We just recently released Monday Service. And what we found is that we have a big overlap &#8212; <strong>not just in the use case between Monday Service and Work Management, but also in terms of the buyer, which is as important as the use case.</strong> So usually the person who buys Work Management is the CIO, COO. Same goes for Monday Service. So you&#8217;ve got their attention, you&#8217;ve got the relationship, and <strong>it just make it easier to do the cross sell.</strong></em>&#8221;</p></blockquote><p>Given that (1) Service is actually growing faster than CRM, (2) the cross sell opportunity is more natural, (3) the Monday product is very well suited for Service, and (4) the Service TAM is larger and ASP higher than CRM, I think it&#8217;s fair to be optimistic re Service.</p><p>So where does that leave us? Well, this is what the Bessemer chart above, rolled forward from $100m to $1bn, looks like for best-in-class SaaS start-ups. </p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!98q5!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8856f2df-edc7-4f65-9d56-2ebac8cce6c1_770x452.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!98q5!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8856f2df-edc7-4f65-9d56-2ebac8cce6c1_770x452.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!98q5!, 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8856f2df-edc7-4f65-9d56-2ebac8cce6c1_770x452.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!98q5!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8856f2df-edc7-4f65-9d56-2ebac8cce6c1_770x452.png" width="770" height="452" 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8856f2df-edc7-4f65-9d56-2ebac8cce6c1_770x452.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!98q5!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8856f2df-edc7-4f65-9d56-2ebac8cce6c1_770x452.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!98q5!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8856f2df-edc7-4f65-9d56-2ebac8cce6c1_770x452.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!98q5!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8856f2df-edc7-4f65-9d56-2ebac8cce6c1_770x452.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Best-in-class SaaS start-ups have gone from $100m to $1bn in 3-7 years.</p><p>I would say that if CRM is a winner (appears that way) and if Service is a winner (seems probable, but early), it would be hard for Monday as an investment overall to not be a winner. CRM and Service could potentially add ~$1bn of revenue over the medium term, say 7 years, on a revenue base that is ~$1bn today. In this scenario, Monday would double revenue before even accounting for continued growth in WM (where Monday is the market leader and less than 2% penetrated) or AI revenue of any kind. </p><p>Showing material adoption in CRM and Service would also considerably enhance Monday&#8217;s competitive positioning/stickiness and contribute to a re-rating of the stock, one would think. </p><p><em>Flywheels</em></p><p>I think there is real evidence Monday is building virtuous flywheels that should help it sustain its momentum:</p><ul><li><p>Flywheel #1: Product quality. Monday is a true platform-first company. This is very hard to do after the fact; you need to build this way from the beginning. As more investment goes into Monday&#8217;s platform, every product gets better simultaneously, and each successive product is of higher and higher quality out of the gate. There is good evidence that this flywheel has taken hold at Monday. It&#8217;s CRM, developed with an initial team of just 4 people, has immediately become a top rated option on G2. CRM grew to $100m in ARR in just 3 years. Service, Monday&#8217;s latest offering, is on a similar trajectory. </p></li><li><p>Flywheel #2: Distribution. The more customers you have, the more cross sell opportunity you have. Every product you release can grow faster than the last. See CRM outgrowing Work Management, and Service potentially outgrowing CRM. Small tuck-in acquisitions can be dramatically scaled up through cross sell to a large install base. Monday has 250k customers, one of the largest customer bases in the SaaS universe. And it is having real success going upmarket as well. </p></li><li><p>Flywheel #3: Bundling. Monday just started bundling its products in Q4&#8217;25. I think this will be a material tailwind for Monday&#8217;s cross sell efforts. As the bundle gets larger, pricing should become more of a moat. </p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!GGqT!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F90af71a0-8538-4117-9c5c-fedb012b2fdc_568x402.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!GGqT!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F90af71a0-8538-4117-9c5c-fedb012b2fdc_568x402.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!GGqT!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F90af71a0-8538-4117-9c5c-fedb012b2fdc_568x402.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!GGqT!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F90af71a0-8538-4117-9c5c-fedb012b2fdc_568x402.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!GGqT!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F90af71a0-8538-4117-9c5c-fedb012b2fdc_568x402.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!GGqT!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F90af71a0-8538-4117-9c5c-fedb012b2fdc_568x402.png" width="568" height="402" 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F90af71a0-8538-4117-9c5c-fedb012b2fdc_568x402.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!GGqT!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F90af71a0-8538-4117-9c5c-fedb012b2fdc_568x402.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!GGqT!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F90af71a0-8538-4117-9c5c-fedb012b2fdc_568x402.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!GGqT!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F90af71a0-8538-4117-9c5c-fedb012b2fdc_568x402.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div></li><li><p>Flywheel #4: Integration + AI. In general, customers want more integration/consolidation of their software stacks, not less. During the SaaS era, we may have gotten use to the idea that customers preferred best-of-breed apps. But before SaaS, consolidated suites were more common. It may be the case that SaaS products were so superior to on-prem, that a window in time opened for a large number of best-of-breed SaaS players to thrive. Now, however, well into the SaaS era, it may be the case that environments will again consolidate, as product suites from the leading players grow. Here is Parker Conrad from Rippling making this point.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-23" href="#footnote-23" target="_self">23</a> Furthermore, I suspect AI will be an additional &#8220;consolidating force,&#8221; as the benefits of having (1) all your data together in one place and (2) agents that can natively dip into various applications to perform actions, will be increasingly important. </p></li></ul><p><em>Other Merits</em></p><ul><li><p>Strong management team. Monday is still led by its co-founders, Roy Mann and Eran Zinman. To this point, they&#8217;ve done an excellent job. See management section</p></li><li><p>Monday can be VMS. While Monday is horizontal SaaS, Monday can also be vertical SaaS. Because Monday is so easily customizable, for some verticals, Monday can make sense as vertical SaaS. For some verticals, the VMS provider(s) may be quite subscale, and thus wouldn&#8217;t have the resources that a Monday would to invest in their platforms. Thus, even though Monday&#8217;s offering might not be tailored to a certain industry out of the box, Monday&#8217;s offering might still be the superior solution. As Monday&#8217;s offering becomes even more easily customizable &#8212; for instance through Monday Magic/Vibe &#8212; this opportunity should grow larger. Here&#8217;s a nice quote on the subject from Parker Conrad of Rippling.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-24" href="#footnote-24" target="_self">24</a> Here&#8217;s additional commentary on how Monday can be a great VMS fit.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-25" href="#footnote-25" target="_self">25</a><a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-26" href="#footnote-26" target="_self">26</a> An <a href="https://youtu.be/V2ObK67MoU4">example</a> of Monday replacing a VMS provider in the RIA space.<br><br>I recently came across this BMO report on Constellation software. The report discusses some of the niche offerings from Constellation-owned companies, like forestry software in Sweden and software to manage K-12 school lunch programs.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Fyzl!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffce7ea5f-3c45-4821-9f4a-d6da7c17542a_630x210.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Fyzl!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffce7ea5f-3c45-4821-9f4a-d6da7c17542a_630x210.png 424w, 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffce7ea5f-3c45-4821-9f4a-d6da7c17542a_630x210.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Fyzl!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffce7ea5f-3c45-4821-9f4a-d6da7c17542a_630x210.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Fyzl!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffce7ea5f-3c45-4821-9f4a-d6da7c17542a_630x210.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Fyzl!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffce7ea5f-3c45-4821-9f4a-d6da7c17542a_630x210.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>While I&#8217;m not sure what kind of impact platforms like Monday could have on these businesses, I do not think all these companies would have existed if Monday-esque platforms had always been available. Further, given how important AI is likely to be, and the fact that platforms like Monday will have much more resources to invest in AI, this likely gives the platforms even more ammunition to compete with subscale VMS</p></li><li><p>Additional applications. Monday could release additional applications over time. They&#8217;ve hinted at an HRM a couple times in the past<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-27" href="#footnote-27" target="_self">27</a><a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-28" href="#footnote-28" target="_self">28</a>, though this seems hard to do.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-29" href="#footnote-29" target="_self">29</a> Perhaps a knowledge hub product (like a Confluence from Atlassian)? CFO Eilran Glazer on a recent podcast referred to ServiceNow as a &#8220;North Star&#8221; for Monday due, in part, to ServiceNow having eight businesses with over $250m of revenue.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-30" href="#footnote-30" target="_self">30</a> </p></li><li><p>Lack of obvious non-starters. No customer concentration. $1.7bn of cash, no debt. Strong cash generator. Strong track record. Not wildly overpriced </p></li></ul><div><hr></div><h2>Investment Risks</h2><p><em>Future of SaaS Risk #1: Cost of Software Development Going to Zero</em></p><p><em>The rise of codegen and vibe coding apps is a trend that isn&#8217;t going to reverse. In theory, over a long enough time frame, the cost of software development could approach zero. As such, it seems very possible that greater competition will eat away at pricing power, reducing margins.</em></p><p>At this point, nobody knows for sure how this will play out, including folks much smarter than I on software. My guess would be that yes, there will be greater competition and maybe pricing power erosion, but that it can be mitigated somewhat:</p><ul><li><p>I would say the vast majority of companies are not going to develop custom apps for there core workstreams. Issues such as security, permissions, reporting, data integration, software maintenance/support are real things and companies will not want to bring them in-house.</p></li><li><p>Further, I would say there will still be degrees of &#8220;lock-in:&#8221;</p><ul><li><p>If a company is running many/most of its core workstreams on ServiceNow say, they will do everything in their power to stay on ServiceNow. Lifting and shifting all your data and workflows and know-how to some other platform still seems like it will be incredibly painful, even in this new world</p></li><li><p>Companies will come to have potentially hundreds of agents embedded within their software workflows. These agents will come to understand how your business operates, and be customized in many thousands (hundreds of thousands? more?) of ways (including likely the insertion deterministic logic where appropriate). Trying to replicate this agent layer on another platform would likely involve significant pain</p></li></ul></li></ul><p>As for Monday more specifically, I think they benefit relatively speaking from the fact that their software is lower priced. Satya Nadella pointed to this advantage recently on a couple of podcasts. I believe his point is essentially just that there is less room to undercut Microsoft on price which should help insulate them from potential new competitors. Monday is the cheapest out of all the platforms (except perhaps Atlassian). </p><p>Further Monday also has much software development to do, across a whole suite of applications. So Monday itself is a beneficiary of this, perhaps more so than many others who might have a more limited scope of potential offerings. Monday has recently taken a full month to reset its R&amp;D function around better leveraging AI.</p><p><em>Future of SaaS Risk #2: Business Model Uncertainty</em></p><p><em>(1) AI workloads are much more costly than SaaS apps to deliver &#8212; this will lead to gross margin erosion. (2) Additionally, seat-based pricing models will have to make the difficult transition to consumption-based or hybrid pricing.</em></p><p>In terms of gross margins, Monday management has stated that GMs are likely to be pressured over the medium term. Management said at their Sep-25 investor day that GMs might contract into the &#8220;mid-80s&#8221; as a result of &#8220;incremental AI-related compute costs.&#8221;</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!sVhP!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fea4919fa-8b55-4ef0-82af-235a56b60a3b_3410x1898.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!sVhP!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fea4919fa-8b55-4ef0-82af-235a56b60a3b_3410x1898.png 424w, 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y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>They were asked about it during Q&amp;A and had the following exchange:</p><blockquote><p><em>Analyst</em></p><p><em>&#8220;I was wondering as you drive adoption of AI agents and AI utilization across the customer base. We&#8217;ve seen some others talk about the potential impact on margins when you&#8217;re in this early curve of investment. And before monetization starts to kick in. So I was curious, can you talk a little bit about how you&#8217;re thinking about driving margin expansion with this next investment cycle in AI?&#8221;</em></p><p><em>Eliran Glazer (CFO)</em></p><p><em>&#8220;Maybe I would start, in the presentation, I shared the model about what would be the impact on our gross margin. So I said potentially, we are a very high margin company in terms of gross margin. We have achieved 90% throughout the last four years. We believe there is going to be an impact of a few hundred basis points. And what we have assumed is probably that we are going to be in mid-80s, but we think there is an upside on it because we are very efficient in the way we run our business. <strong>So I would say this is probably the range I would think there is going to be potentially some impact between 85% to 90%.</strong>&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>In my model I have GMs contracting to 86% by 2031e, which seems relatively conservative based on this exchange. Further, I&#8217;m taking GMs down while not really giving Monday any credit for any AI-derived revenue. I assume Monday (and others) will be able to monetize their AI offerings (in the form of consumption pricing or higher seat-based pricing) to at least some extent. </p><p>I concede however that there&#8217;s a relatively wide range of potential outcomes on longer-term GMs (across all of SaaS).</p><p>In terms of seat-based pricing vs. consumption vs. hybrid, maybe the biggest risk would simply be that Monday will be overly concerned with temporary GM compression. This might lead them to overprice their AI offerings relative to competitors, which would potentially cause churn or stunt growth. I do foresee Monday management being responsive to these types of competitive dynamics, but it is something to monitor. Monday currently charges on a consumption-basis for many of its AI offerings, and I&#8217;d say people generally don&#8217;t like this type of model (unless the ROI on this spend is very clear). I would expect the &#8220;Product Power-Ups&#8221; from Monday to be included in all Pro or Enterprise plans for no additional cost, but we&#8217;ll see.</p><p>Overall I think TAM should expand, however. And that companies that do AI well will be able to capture a portion of the value they create &#8212; whether that comes in the form of consumption based pricing or higher seat based pricing. </p><p><em>Future of SaaS Risk #3: AGI Renders the Application Layer Obsolete</em></p><p><em>AI will become so powerful over time, that most (all?) workflows needed today simply won&#8217;t be needed in the future. The &#8220;agentic layer&#8221; will displace the &#8220;application layer.&#8221;</em></p><p>I think consensus from leading experts today is that we&#8217;re perhaps a decade away, in ballpark terms, from just getting most agents to really work. </p><p>This exchange on 20VC from Oct-25 with Atlassian CEO Mike Cannon-Brookes seems to be generally reflective of our current situation:</p><blockquote><p><em>Mike Cannon-Brookes (CEO, Atlassian)</em></p><p><em>&#8220;The speed with which AI can be understood and deployed successfully by companies/customers is <strong>something that is going to take a lot longer to really play through. Because the delta between magical demos and actual value delivered is quite high in a lot of cases</strong>.&#8221;</em></p><p><em>Harry Stebbings</em></p><p><em>&#8220;Why is that? Is that adoption and education? Is that data cleanliness and availability? Is that security and permission-ing in large enterprises? Why?&#8221; </em></p><p><em>Mike Cannon-Brookes (CEO, Atlassian)</em></p><p><em>&#8220;<strong>Every single one of those and more&#8230;</strong>You have to understand your problem well. You have to change the way you look at the problem &#8212; often the workflow, the business process. You have to understand the technology and what it is and is not capable of at the current time. You have to have the security, the data, you have to have the cleanliness, you have to have all these things. The magical demo of just like a push a button and like some app pops out or this thing happens. It doesn&#8217;t exist, right? <strong>It doesn&#8217;t mean the technology is not useful at all, but I think there&#8217;s a lot there&#8217;s a lot more work to do to to really deliver on the promise</strong>.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>Here is commentary from Salesforce CPO Steve Fisher from their Oct-25 investor day on some of the challenges they are having building agents at a more granular level:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;Why has it been so hard to get agents that actually deliver the goods?&#8230;</em></p><p><em>So we would have customers tell the agent in natural language through prompts like everybody is doing, first do this and then do this and then do this, but never do this or always do this. And if this is true, then do this, but otherwise do this. If you looked at the prompts for all of our customers, they&#8217;re riddled with that. But what happened was that the LLM would maybe most of the time do what you told it to do, but not all of the time would it do what you told it to do. And that&#8217;s kind of been the experience is that the reasoning ability, the ability to always follow instructions, that&#8217;s not really the LLM strength. <strong>And the realization was, if you actually know what you want the agent to do, don&#8217;t go to the LLM. Just say, do this and then do this. And if this, then do this, else do this, kind of the basics back to the traditional software role</strong> that we&#8217;re all used to, but I think maybe we thought the agents could kind of just figure it all out on their own. But they get very confused. They can&#8217;t do that. They&#8217;re designed not to do that. They&#8217;re designed really to figure out the next word to say&#8230;</em></p><p><em>So then they would redo the prompts and redo the prompts and get into what Srini calls the prompt doom loop&#8230;<strong>then if it&#8217;s not listening to you, you&#8217;d say, never do this and you put it in all caps and repeat it 3 times. </strong>Literally, that&#8217;s what our customers were doing&#8230;</em></p><p><em>And the first thing we learned was actually, if you don&#8217;t constrain the agent to maybe no more than 6, 7, 8 things that they should be paying attention to, it gets very confused. And then we learned, well, even within those 6, 7, 8 things, use the LLM where it&#8217;s appropriate, do not use it where you actually know what to do. That&#8217;s this deterministic capability with Agent script. And all of that has sort of said, okay, Software is still software. In the world -- in business, when you actually know what you want, whether it&#8217;s for compliance reasons or you just want to execute your business process 100% the way you want to execute it, then just use the enterprise software you&#8217;ve been using all along.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>Of course Atlassian and Salesforce are &#8220;incumbents&#8221; so you might disregard such statements. But it&#8217;s also just a reality that AI-natives in these &#8220;messier&#8221; areas of software (where not everything is text-based; where data is not self-contained or there is external context; where evals don&#8217;t necessarily exist) are not growing as fast as AI-natives in other areas that are more ripe for immediate AI disruption (like software development, legal, creative arts, customer service). </p><p>Here is Andrej Karpathy (founding member of OpenAI and former Director of AI at Tesla) in an Oct-25 interview with Dwarkesh Patel. He makes the case that we are still about a decade away from workable agents.</p><blockquote><p>Dwarkesh Patel</p><p><em>&#8220;Why do you say that this will be the decade of agents and not the year of agents?&#8221;</em></p><p>Andrej Karpathy</p><p><em>&#8220;&#8230;The quote you&#8217;ve just mentioned, &#8216;It&#8217;s the decade of agents,&#8217; is actually a reaction to a pre-existing quote. I&#8217;m not actually sure who said this but they were alluding to this being the &#8216;year of agents&#8217; with respect to LLMs and how they were going to evolve. </em></p><p><em>I was triggered by that because there&#8217;s some over-prediction going on in the industry. In my mind, this is more accurately described as the decade of agents. We have some very early agents that are extremely impressive and that I use daily &#8212;Claude and Codex and so on &#8212; but I still feel there&#8217;s so much work to be done. </em></p><p><em>My reaction is we&#8217;ll be working with these things for a decade. They&#8217;re going to get better, and it&#8217;s going to be wonderful.&#8221;</em></p><p>Dwarkesh Patel</p><p><em>&#8220;What do you think will take a decade to accomplish? What are the bottlenecks?&#8221;</em></p><p>Andrej Karpathy</p><p><em>&#8220;<strong>Actually making it work.</strong> When you&#8217;re talking about an agent, or what the labs have in mind and maybe what I have in mind as well, you should think of it almost like an employee or an intern that you would hire to work with you. For example, you work with some employees here. When would you prefer to have an agent like Claude or Codex do that work? Currently, of course they can&#8217;t. What would it take for them to be able to do that? Why don&#8217;t you do it today? <strong>The reason you don&#8217;t do it today is because they just don&#8217;t work. They don&#8217;t have enough intelligence, they&#8217;re not multimodal enough, they can&#8217;t do computer use and all this stuff. </strong></em></p><p><em><strong>They don&#8217;t do a lot of the things you&#8217;ve alluded to earlier. They don&#8217;t have continual learning. You can&#8217;t just tell them something and they&#8217;ll remember it. They&#8217;re cognitively lacking and it&#8217;s just not working. It will take about a decade to work through all of those issues.&#8221;</strong></em></p><p>Dwarkesh Patel</p><p><em>&#8220;&#8230;Why a decade? Why not one year? Why not 50 years?&#8221;</em></p><p>Andrej Karpathy</p><p><em>&#8220;This is where you get into a bit of my own intuition, and doing a bit of an extrapolation with respect to my own experience in the field. I&#8217;ve been in AI for almost two decades. It&#8217;s going to be 15 years or so, not that long. You had Richard Sutton here, who was around for much longer. I do have about 15 years of experience of people making predictions, of seeing how they turned out. </em></p><p><em>Also I was in the industry for a while, I was in research. I have a general intuition  that I have left from that. I feel like the problems are tractable, they&#8217;re surmountable, but they&#8217;re still difficult. If I just average it out, it just feels like a decade to me.</em>&#8221;</p></blockquote><p>Later he describes the ways in which codegen apps mostly fail to be useful to him. He likens codegen apps, one of the best use-cases we have today for LLMs, to &#8220;slop:&#8221;</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;I think overall the models are not there. I kind of feel like the industry &#8212; it&#8217;s making too big of a jump. <strong>And it&#8217;s trying to pretend like &#8216;this is amazing,&#8217; and it&#8217;s not &#8212; it&#8217;s slop.</strong> And I think they&#8217;re not coming to terms with it and maybe they&#8217;re trying to fundraise or something like that &#8212; I&#8217;m not sure what&#8217;s going on. But we&#8217;re at this intermediate stage. The models are amazing. [But] they still need a lot of work.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>We can see agents &#8220;failing&#8221; in the enterprise from a number of recent studies as well:</p><div class="image-gallery-embed" data-attrs="{&quot;gallery&quot;:{&quot;images&quot;:[{&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/182b83a1-63e5-499a-84f3-8c37b2b4d292_393x478.png&quot;},{&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/ada1c6d2-57f2-4659-aa88-e68be556c5a4_387x365.png&quot;},{&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/c442f68d-d16d-40db-a7c8-1aa23686748f_390x275.png&quot;},{&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/0c75941d-8388-4f54-87e0-e177d464efe0_385x412.png&quot;}],&quot;caption&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;alt&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;staticGalleryImage&quot;:{&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/3e70e8d6-162b-4617-8907-b729de544092_1456x1456.png&quot;}},&quot;isEditorNode&quot;:true}"></div><p>So I&#8217;d say it seems as if we are in for a steady, many-year grind of turning these LLMs into &#8220;applied&#8221; use-cases.</p><p>New technologies also tend to be &#8220;asymptotic.&#8221; Meaning the pace of change is extremely fast at first, and much more gradual later on. Here is Peter Fenton of Benchmark on the Uncapped podcast (Jul-25):</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;If you get to a speciation event, 90% of the phenotype change occurs in the first 10% of the species life. Why is that interesting? <strong>Well, you look at the iPhone. Okay, so for the first 10% of the iPhone&#8217;s life, 90% of the change &#8212; of course &#8212; like that&#8217;s when the camera gets added on the front. That&#8217;s when you have video and then it sort of goes to an asymptote</strong>. So we&#8217;re in a zone now &#8212; and I think maybe it&#8217;s a three to five year period, could be seven. Who am I to say? Where we&#8217;re having radical variance and <strong>what will happen is we&#8217;ll look back I think in 2040 and and you blur your eyes and say it all kind of looks the same like it did in 2030.</strong> But from 2025 to 2030 it&#8217;s going to look so different every 6 months.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>This doesn&#8217;t mean the application layer is safe, necessarily. But I do think the rapid pace of change we are witnessing now in AI won&#8217;t go on forever. </p><p><em>Extreme Competitive Intensity</em></p><p>There is intense competition across all of work/project management, CRM, Dev and Service. However, what is most spooking investors seems to be the specter of groups like Google, Microsoft and OpenAI making even greater inroads into the enterprise. And doing so in ways that increasingly encroach on Monday&#8217;s turf.</p><p>Much of the fear seems revolve around new &#8220;AI layer&#8221; offerings from these companies that many believe will come to sit atop of the enterprise stack. Companies will use this layer to manage their businesses and their agentic workflows (amongst other things). This encroaches on Monday&#8217;s turf, where automations and workflows are key selling points. Further, the natural course for Monday as a WM provider is to lean into agentic capabilities, which will put them even further into competition with these groups.</p><p>So should we be spooked by these offerings? </p><p>I think the answer is yes, we should probably be spooked to some extent. Google/Microsoft/OpenAI are making it a very clear priority to attack this AI layer, putting them into competition with Monday (even if it&#8217;s still mostly indirect competition), and that&#8217;s clearly not great. It has the possibility of putting Monday onto a treadmill where it needs to spend more to compete, but it&#8217;s ultimately in a battle it can&#8217;t win. </p><p>The flipside of this argument is that fears of these large companies just completely dominating the enterprise are likely overblown. Microsoft does not dominate CRM, ERP, etc. despite having offerings in those areas &#8212; far from it. There is still a lot of power in specialization and room to build better products for all kinds of different use cases. </p><p>Below is an exchange from an Aug-25 a16z podcast touching on the points above:</p><blockquote><p>Aaron Levie:</p><p><em>&#8220;I think that people are probably way too afraid of the model providers eating them. I think it was basically a phenomenon in the first wave, which was if you were just doing like&#8230;a text interface that produced more text, like yes ChatGPT ate you&#8230;But basically since then most enterprises want, kind of, applied use cases for AI and AI agents. And so it&#8217;s not obvious that the current crop of companies &#8212; if you&#8217;re doing AI for healthcare, if you&#8217;re doing AI for life sciences, if you&#8217;re doing AI for financial services&#8230;<strong>We&#8217;re just in a 5-year period right now where you&#8217;re going to have to build agents for every vertical, every domain</strong> and there&#8217;s a playbook that&#8217;s starting to emerge of what that needs to look like.&#8221;</em></p><p>Martin Casado</p><p><em>&#8220;I think there was kind of a technical head fake that happened early on which was pre-training. So the pre-training really was a 10 out of 10 technical innovation&#8230;Like two years ago if somebody &#8212; I had a friend that was building their own aging model, post training aging model&#8230;and then of course the next version of Midjourney whatever comes out and it does a better job of it. And the thing with pre-training was you&#8217;re just kind of consuming all of the world&#8217;s existing data. You&#8217;re draining all of that energy and it perfectly generalized, right? <strong>But it feels like technically that&#8217;s passed and now we&#8217;re more in post training, in RL which is a lot more domain specific</strong>.&#8221;</em></p><p>Aaron Levie:</p><p><em>&#8220;<strong>Well and the moment that you have access to some set of data that is just for that enterprise &#8212; who gets permission to access that data, who gets permission to do the workflow on it? It&#8217;s going to be applied companies.</strong>&#8221;</em></p><p>Martin Casado:</p><p><em>&#8220;Yeah. If we had an infinite number of tokens then the models would just continue to generalize, but it&#8217;s pretty clear that that&#8217;s not happening. And so now we&#8217;re going into &#8212; which we all understand very well &#8212; <strong>which is now companies have to choose which domains to go into and they&#8217;ve got to solve the long-tail problems there and get access to the data, etc</strong>.&#8221;</em> </p><p>Steven Sinofsky</p><p><em>&#8220;And I also think that there&#8217;s this shadow&#8230;cast by large companies over we&#8217;re going to put you out of business and stomp you. <strong>It&#8217;s ridiculous. And it has never in any technology wave lived up to the fear that people have</strong>&#8230;</em></p><p><em>The thing that&#8217;s not being said now, which we should do a whole [podcast] on, is like what is the actual platform? Because it&#8217;s all well and good to say that the large models will go subsume every application. The thing is, the minute they start doing that, no one will be in their platform, right? &#8230;There&#8217;s a phrase &#8216;Sherlocking&#8217; on the Mac and the Apple world to this [phenomenon]. <strong>And so it does it have a real chilling effect and that&#8217;s one of the things all the model people are going to learn very, very quickly</strong>.&#8221;</em></p><p>Aaron Levie</p><p><em>&#8220;There&#8217;s a chilling effect, but there&#8217;s also just a problem of like it&#8217;s hard to go deep in 50 categories...At some point it becomes purely just an execution issue which is like, I don&#8217;t know how anybody would set up a company to be to be able to beat 50 startups across 50 different domains.&#8221;</em> </p><p>Steven Sinofsky</p><p><em>&#8220;No, it&#8217;s ridiculous. And in fact, like it&#8217;s only good because what happens is that the big company raises the awareness of a whole category, and then you just swoop in and you go, &#8216;To them you&#8217;re just a feature, but to to you this my whole life,&#8217; right? And and you&#8217;re gonna win. Look, I just always come back to &#8212; there&#8217;s a whole company that just signs things, right? [DocuSign] Like I cannot believe there&#8217;s a whole company that just signs things.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>I tend to agree with these takes. I also tend to think this layer will be very technically difficult to accomplish, as discussed in the section above. </p><p>Another group of competitors I&#8217;d expect to grow are ServiceNow copycats, of which Monday is one. These integrated suite providers seem to be positioned well in the AI era. We were already seeing the large horizontal SaaS incumbents (Atlassian, Salesforce, Workday) extending their suites. Rippling is an example of a start-up that&#8217;s building a broad suite. Reevo is another taking an AI-native approach to building an all-encompassing GTM suite. </p><p><em>AI Native Competition</em></p><p><em>Will Monday and the other incumbents be outcompeted by AI natives in their core offerings like WM, CRM, Dev and Service?</em></p><p>You&#8217;d be right to be a little spooked by the AI natives. Some AI natives are growing shockingly fast, much faster than the top SaaS companies of yesteryear: </p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!izgU!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc6b2c9c0-78b7-4aa8-8cd0-02f9b736d318_857x494.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!izgU!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc6b2c9c0-78b7-4aa8-8cd0-02f9b736d318_857x494.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!izgU!, 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y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>However, I think some areas are clearly more ripe for immediate AI disruption than others, as discussed earlier.</p><p>These fast-moving examples may lead folks to believe that owning workflows/customers/data doesn&#8217;t matter. Or that doing so may even hamper an incumbent (as it locks them into a product or revenue model that isn&#8217;t adaptable to the AI era). And that will be right in some cases. But I think owning the workflows, data and distribution will still advantage incumbents in many categories. </p><p>I think the categories that Monday touches are such categories more or less &#8212; we have not seen any high flying winners in areas like CRM or Work Management. So while AI natives are certainly a risk, I think it&#8217;s more of heads-up competition, where Monday has some clear advantages.</p><p><em>Monday Agents Won&#8217;t be Very Good</em></p><p>Perhaps Monday&#8217;s agents won&#8217;t be very good. Monday is not a specialist in CRM nor a specialist in Service. In an area like customer service, there are customer service-focused, AI-native competitors like Decagon and Sierra that will very likely have better customer service agents than Monday. </p><p>If Monday knew they were going to have to develop all these agents, would they have still launched all these apps? They don&#8217;t even have all the core software functionality they need, never mind all the agentic capabilities&#8230;</p><p>So how much of a problem is this? Well, it&#8217;s probably agent-specific:</p><ul><li><p>Is the agent super important? Say there is a sales outbound agent that emails prospective customers. It is great at researching and drafting custom emails that hit just the right notes. This could be quite valuable. If some competitor&#8217;s agent was much better than Monday&#8217;s, that would certainly be reason to go with a competitor. </p></li><li><p>How much worse is Monday? Say there is a customer service agent that handles 95% of issues autonomously, while Monday&#8217;s agent handles 90% autonomously. And say customer service for the customer is of relatively lesser importance. Well then Monday being a little worse is probably not reason for this customer to go out of its way to use this competitor (especially if Monday&#8217;s offering were cheaper, say).</p></li></ul><p>I could certainly envision a world where Monday&#8217;s agents are &#8220;pretty good&#8221; in many cases, but where &#8220;best-of-breed&#8221; specialists exist as well. Monday customers could integrate with best-of-breed providers where they feel the need, and use Monday where Monday is &#8220;good enough.&#8221; In this world, custom Monday agents could also handle the bespoke agentic needs of a business that wouldn&#8217;t necessarily be the territory of a best-of-breed specialist &#8212; of which there will be many such use cases.</p><p>Here&#8217;s an example discussed in an expert call with Omnitas Consulting (Tegus, Nov-25):</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;I have, for example, a client that does new product launches. One of the big things there is that the photo shooting team &#8212; they&#8217;re always the bottleneck. They get really bad briefs, they need to send them back days before the shoot. There&#8217;s a lot of frustration around it. </em></p><p><em>As soon as I get my fingers on an agent, I would like to try that use case and see &#8212; can we actually train the AI on what&#8217;s a good and what&#8217;s a bad photo shoot brief? Once the brief is submitted, it can automatically revert back to the one who sent the brief and say, "&#8216;Listen, you need to put more color here. This information is missing.&#8217; We know that AI is really good at doing this because we&#8217;ve done something similar for another client but with OpenAI, and we had 98% good results. It was only 2% that needed to be manually reviewed. <strong>In that way, it can be crazy. Imagine having a full-time photo shoot assistant that works 24 hours?</strong>&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>Monday is also offering third-parties the ability to sell agents in Monday&#8217;s marketplace. If this marketplace turns out to be relatively robust that could extend Monday&#8217;s capabilities by an order of magnitude. This would provide even more reason to stay within Monday&#8217;s immediate ecosystem.</p><p><em>Ownership Structure / Founder Share</em></p><p>Co-Founder and Co-CEO Roy Mann holds a &#8220;founder share.&#8221; This gives him the right to veto the sale of the company. </p><p>From a Nov-24 <a href="https://www.calcalistech.com/ctechnews/article/s1n8cixqjl">article</a>:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;When asked whether the company&#8217;s current market valuation makes him less worried about a potential sale, Mann explains: &#8216;When we were a private company, <strong>we blocked any possibility of an acquisition</strong>. Since going public, we&#8217;ve <strong>added a special section to the prospectus that explicitly outlines our commitment to remain independent</strong>. We always <strong>rejected offers outright</strong> to eliminate any temptation. You must stand firm in your intention to build a big company.&#8217;&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>So do I think Monday would sell if a buyer came along and offered a big premium? Based on the commentary above &#8212; no, I do not. Does this make me less comfortable as a shareholder? A little bit &#8212; the presence of a valuation floor below which a take-out becomes likely is not a given with Monday. This might eliminate a bit of downside support.</p><p>However, to date, building as if they were going to be a big company (and never sell) has really worked out for Monday. The investment in Big Brain, the investment in the platform, going multi-product &#8212; this is what&#8217;s going to save Monday. </p><p><em>Other Risks</em></p><ul><li><p><em>Not a True SoR; Monday is &#8220;Bundle-able.&#8221; </em>There&#8217;s a long list of non-SoR productivity tools that have gotten &#8220;bundled&#8221; by a Microsoft et al (Slack, Zoom, Dropbox, Calendly, Miro, Netscape, Winamp, Lotus, WordPerfect, etc.). You could make the argument Monday is such a tool. However, I believe Monday belongs in a higher tier. I think there is enough differentiation to Monday, that it cannot be &#8220;bundled&#8221; in a way that impairs the business (in fact, Microsoft already offers &#8220;Projects&#8221; and &#8220;To Do,&#8221; which are work/task management tools). The more that Monday can expand into other product categories, the less &#8220;bundle-able&#8221; it will be. So while Monday is not as sticky as a Salesforce or another pure SoR solution, I would say it&#8217;s much stickier than someone like Asana. And the numbers back this up. NRR is best-in-class for a SaaS company of its size. GRR is at an all-time high. </p></li><li><p><em>Dev Struggles.</em> Dev is not penetrating well. The cause seems to be that Atlassian is highly entrenched.</p></li><li><p><em>CRM (and Service) Product Limitations.</em> Monday&#8217;s CRM placed dead last in Gartner&#8217;s magic quadrant. Service is also quite limited at this stage. We need to believe that these products will improve at a healthy clip over time. If CRM and Service growth were to slow materially, that would introduce a significant headwind to the short-term and long-term story. Monday stopped reporting customer count figures for CRM and Service as of Q3&#8217;25 &#8212; this is generally not a positive indicator.</p></li></ul><div><hr></div><h2>Valuation</h2><p><em>Multiples</em></p><p>Monday currently trades at ~5.1x revenue / ~5.7x GP / ~19x FCF on 2025e management figures and ~4.2x revenue / ~4.7x GP / ~15x FCF on 2026e analyst consensus figures.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!TBEN!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F32575512-e2eb-4af5-91ea-ddb8c693ce2f_2948x1013.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!TBEN!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F32575512-e2eb-4af5-91ea-ddb8c693ce2f_2948x1013.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!TBEN!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F32575512-e2eb-4af5-91ea-ddb8c693ce2f_2948x1013.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!TBEN!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F32575512-e2eb-4af5-91ea-ddb8c693ce2f_2948x1013.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!TBEN!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F32575512-e2eb-4af5-91ea-ddb8c693ce2f_2948x1013.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!TBEN!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F32575512-e2eb-4af5-91ea-ddb8c693ce2f_2948x1013.png" width="1456" height="500" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/32575512-e2eb-4af5-91ea-ddb8c693ce2f_2948x1013.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:500,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:306252,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F32575512-e2eb-4af5-91ea-ddb8c693ce2f_2948x1013.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!TBEN!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F32575512-e2eb-4af5-91ea-ddb8c693ce2f_2948x1013.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!TBEN!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F32575512-e2eb-4af5-91ea-ddb8c693ce2f_2948x1013.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!TBEN!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F32575512-e2eb-4af5-91ea-ddb8c693ce2f_2948x1013.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!TBEN!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F32575512-e2eb-4af5-91ea-ddb8c693ce2f_2948x1013.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>This is the lowest level Monday&#8217;s ever traded. Below is a chart of Monday&#8217;s NTM rev multiple over time. Since Mar-22, it&#8217;s generally traded in the 7-11x range (vs. ~4.5x today).</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!TdQP!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8005f929-a9c8-4f54-89b1-c4c4bf68e592_902x439.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!TdQP!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8005f929-a9c8-4f54-89b1-c4c4bf68e592_902x439.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!TdQP!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8005f929-a9c8-4f54-89b1-c4c4bf68e592_902x439.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!TdQP!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8005f929-a9c8-4f54-89b1-c4c4bf68e592_902x439.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!TdQP!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8005f929-a9c8-4f54-89b1-c4c4bf68e592_902x439.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!TdQP!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8005f929-a9c8-4f54-89b1-c4c4bf68e592_902x439.png" width="902" height="439" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/8005f929-a9c8-4f54-89b1-c4c4bf68e592_902x439.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:439,&quot;width&quot;:902,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:56888,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8005f929-a9c8-4f54-89b1-c4c4bf68e592_902x439.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!TdQP!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8005f929-a9c8-4f54-89b1-c4c4bf68e592_902x439.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!TdQP!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8005f929-a9c8-4f54-89b1-c4c4bf68e592_902x439.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!TdQP!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8005f929-a9c8-4f54-89b1-c4c4bf68e592_902x439.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!TdQP!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8005f929-a9c8-4f54-89b1-c4c4bf68e592_902x439.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Shortly after the IPO, shares traded as high as ~50x fwd rev, which explains why shares are still well below peak PPS levels of ~$370.</p><p><em>What&#8217;s Causing the Drawdown?</em></p><p>Monday shares are in a steep drawdown, falling ~50% over the past 4 months.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!YSP-!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2a737684-b33b-44db-b2ea-ff86aca3ca3b_716x279.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!YSP-!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2a737684-b33b-44db-b2ea-ff86aca3ca3b_716x279.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!YSP-!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2a737684-b33b-44db-b2ea-ff86aca3ca3b_716x279.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!YSP-!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2a737684-b33b-44db-b2ea-ff86aca3ca3b_716x279.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!YSP-!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2a737684-b33b-44db-b2ea-ff86aca3ca3b_716x279.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!YSP-!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2a737684-b33b-44db-b2ea-ff86aca3ca3b_716x279.png" width="716" height="279" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/2a737684-b33b-44db-b2ea-ff86aca3ca3b_716x279.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:279,&quot;width&quot;:716,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:54158,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2a737684-b33b-44db-b2ea-ff86aca3ca3b_716x279.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!YSP-!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2a737684-b33b-44db-b2ea-ff86aca3ca3b_716x279.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!YSP-!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2a737684-b33b-44db-b2ea-ff86aca3ca3b_716x279.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!YSP-!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2a737684-b33b-44db-b2ea-ff86aca3ca3b_716x279.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!YSP-!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2a737684-b33b-44db-b2ea-ff86aca3ca3b_716x279.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>The drawdown is resulting from some combination of AI fears (covered above) + slowing growth.</p><p>On its Q3&#8217;25 earnings call last week, management guided to 22-23% growth for Q4&#8217;25, which is down from 26%, 27%, 30%, and 32% in Q3&#8217;25, Q2&#8217;25, Q1&#8217;25 and Q4&#8217;24, respectively. In other words, growth has slowed to ~23% from 32% just 4 quarters ago. When a company goes from growth of 30%+ to flirting with teens growth, a re-rating of some sort is to be expected.</p><p>One much discussed cause of the slowdown has been a slowing of traffic from Google search (organic and paid) due to the rise of ChatGPT and Google&#8217;s own AI Overviews. Google AdWords (paid search) represents about ~10% of new ARR for Monday, according to management. From reports I&#8217;ve seen, Monday&#8217;s search traffic growth turned negative right around the end of 2024, with traffic cratering by as much as 20% overall (and over 25% for organic search) by mid 2025. These trends seem to be stabilizing, which management also highlighted on Q3&#8217;25 earnings.</p><p>Monday is attempting to mitigate this impact by shifting some marketing spend to other marketing channels as well as into more sales resources. However, (1) shifting Google AdWords spend (which pretty quickly translates to new revenue) to sales personnel (which have a much longer payback) will introduce a bit of an air pocket, even if Monday can generate similar ROIs on the spend, and (2) you can&#8217;t really &#8220;shift&#8221; budget around when you lose organic search traffic (because organic search is of course free, less a little SEO expense).</p><p>The slowing growth calls into question whether the $1.8bn of revenue the company guided to for 2027 at its Sep-25 investor day (which implies a 21% CAGR from 2025e) is still achievable. On the Q3&#8217;25, management reaffirmed the $1.8bn number after being pressed on it multiple times:</p><blockquote><p><em>Steven Enders (Analyst)</em></p><p><em>&#8220;And then I guess on the guidance, again, just -- I understand Q4 is coming down a little bit. I guess on the back of that, I guess, what maybe gives the confidence as we think through &#8216;26 and &#8216;27 that you still feel good about that $1.8 billion number, especially as we think about lapping some of the price increases going into next year. Just yes -- how should we think through those factors and what gives you all the confidence behind those numbers?&#8221;</em></p><p><em>Eliran Glazer (CFO)</em></p><p><em>&#8220;So when we think about a few reasons why we are confident in next year numbers. <strong>First, demand and expansion from our larger customers. So we&#8217;re accelerating year-over-year growth for all upmarket customers.</strong> So you have seen $50,000, $100,000 and $500,000 I mentioned earlier. We&#8217;re accelerating year-over-year growth of RPOs and we are improving $50,000 NDR.</em></p><p><em><strong>In addition to that, we have the multiproduct adoption that continues to trend positively.</strong> CRM is becoming very significant with more than $100 million in ARR and we are seeing customers increasingly adopting multiple solutions.</em></p><p><em><strong>We are only in the early innings of customers that are adopting more than one product. And only, I think it was 6% that we said in Investor Day, and now we&#8217;re doing much, much better.</strong> AI Product engagement is accelerating. We were focused on educating, and we are focused on adoption of customers in the market, and we see a very healthy adoption of AI products that we believe are going to monetize next year in a more significant way. And as Eran mentioned, <strong>we have signs of stabilization in top of funnel at the end of the quarter that we are encouraged by</strong> that going into the fourth quarter and into next year.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>Here is another exchange. In this one, management also affirms their comfort with &#8220;consensus&#8221; revenue figures for 2026.</p><blockquote><p><em>Aleksandr Zukin (Analyst)</em></p><p><em>&#8220;And then maybe Eliran, and just for you, if you&#8217;ve had a couple of questions regarding how you feel maybe about next year specifically. I think it&#8217;s just given some of the changing dynamics that you&#8217;re mentioning around channels and how you&#8217;re going to market and shifting spend what seemingly is a little bit of a change in terms of your guidance for Q4 versus previous years and periods in terms of passing through the beat and this timing adjustment. Maybe just help us pace how we should think about the growth? Are you comfortable with where consensus is for next year? Is it something where it may be a little bit more back-end loaded, and you could actually see acceleration in &#8216;27 because of some of these timing adjustments that you&#8217;re calling out, I think it would be really helpful for us to just understand the pacing of growth given some of these evolving dynamics.&#8221;</em></p><p><em>Eliran Glazer (CFO)</em></p><p><em>&#8220;Alex, Eliran here. So I think I mentioned it earlier, but if you think about where we&#8217;re going to be in fiscal year &#8216;27, we said that we are going to achieve $1.8 billion in revenue, we feel very confident with that. <strong>We feel very confident with the number based on everything that we see today.</strong> And this is something that we -- when we made the assumptions we took into account the trends that we see today we made some assumptions about the cross-sell motion, the new products that we are launching to the market. The fact that AI is going to be monetized to a certain extent, and the fact that we are going to expand within existing customer base.</em></p><p><em><strong>So having all of this into -- taking all of this into account, we feel that the $1.8 billion in fiscal year &#8216;27 is achievable in the interim, we are confident with the consensus number for next year as well.</strong>&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>With management being adamant that revenue growth remains on track and because I think this team is pretty honest (I&#8217;m naive like this), I do think they probably feel they are still on track (maybe they are lying to themselves). Nevertheless, in my model I assume a slight haircut to the $1.8bn for 2027.</p><p>One interesting trend to keep an eye on, which might be part of what management is seeing, is that as Monday goes more upmarket, new bookings will be more heavily weighted towards Q4. From Q3&#8217;25 earnings:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;As it relates to the quarter. All I would say is that when you move upmarket, obviously, you create somewhat of a hockey stick in the quarter and in the year, as we progress upmarket, we continue to see that phenomenon play out.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>So between (1) the fact that new bookings should get a natural boost in Q4, (2) Monday initiating its first set of bundled offerings in Q4, which should provide a boost to their cross sell efforts, and (3) stabilization in top of funnel search trends, I could see how management might believe that growth trends will firm up a bit.</p><p>It should be noted that while the slowing of top of funnel traffic is a real headwind, it&#8217;s basically unrelated to Monday&#8217;s strength as an offering. Some investors may be conflating the two, seeing slowing growth as an indication of a weakening value proposition perhaps. But I don&#8217;t think we should assume this is the case. If it&#8217;s not, Monday should be able to start &#8220;lapping&#8221; this top-of-funnel impact next year, which will alleviate a bit of the headwind.</p><p><em>Trading Comps</em></p><p>A set of &#8220;high-quality&#8221; SaaS comps currently trades around ~9-10x LTM revenue / ~12-13x LTM gross profit / ~30-40x LTM FCF.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!BCiD!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F63b17e6e-dd50-43f1-a2a5-0a14e2ac17c7_4000x2092.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!BCiD!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F63b17e6e-dd50-43f1-a2a5-0a14e2ac17c7_4000x2092.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!BCiD!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F63b17e6e-dd50-43f1-a2a5-0a14e2ac17c7_4000x2092.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!BCiD!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F63b17e6e-dd50-43f1-a2a5-0a14e2ac17c7_4000x2092.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!BCiD!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F63b17e6e-dd50-43f1-a2a5-0a14e2ac17c7_4000x2092.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!BCiD!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F63b17e6e-dd50-43f1-a2a5-0a14e2ac17c7_4000x2092.png" width="1456" height="761" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/63b17e6e-dd50-43f1-a2a5-0a14e2ac17c7_4000x2092.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:761,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:1874576,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F63b17e6e-dd50-43f1-a2a5-0a14e2ac17c7_4000x2092.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!BCiD!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F63b17e6e-dd50-43f1-a2a5-0a14e2ac17c7_4000x2092.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!BCiD!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F63b17e6e-dd50-43f1-a2a5-0a14e2ac17c7_4000x2092.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!BCiD!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F63b17e6e-dd50-43f1-a2a5-0a14e2ac17c7_4000x2092.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!BCiD!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F63b17e6e-dd50-43f1-a2a5-0a14e2ac17c7_4000x2092.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Monday trades at ~5.4x LTM revenue, ~6.0x LTM GP, and 18x LTM FCF, well below this peer set despite a significantly higher growth profile.</p><p>Below is a chart showing software industry multiples over the last 10 years from Altimeter. The industry average multiple is currently ~4.8x fwd revenue, which is around the lowest its been over this 10 year stretch. </p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Y7MK!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F58535323-fd12-4c2f-b268-66aa73b790a6_702x358.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Y7MK!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F58535323-fd12-4c2f-b268-66aa73b790a6_702x358.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Y7MK!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F58535323-fd12-4c2f-b268-66aa73b790a6_702x358.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Y7MK!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F58535323-fd12-4c2f-b268-66aa73b790a6_702x358.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Y7MK!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F58535323-fd12-4c2f-b268-66aa73b790a6_702x358.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Y7MK!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F58535323-fd12-4c2f-b268-66aa73b790a6_702x358.png" width="702" height="358" 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F58535323-fd12-4c2f-b268-66aa73b790a6_702x358.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Y7MK!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F58535323-fd12-4c2f-b268-66aa73b790a6_702x358.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Y7MK!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F58535323-fd12-4c2f-b268-66aa73b790a6_702x358.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Y7MK!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F58535323-fd12-4c2f-b268-66aa73b790a6_702x358.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>However, the dispersion between the highest multiples and the average multiple has grown significantly, as we can see above.</p><p>While the average multiple being on the low side might imply the industry overall is undervalued, growth is also the slowest its ever been. So the lower multiple would be justified, in theory, all else equal. We can see by this chart of EV / revenue / growth, that multiples are actually a bit elevated perhaps vs. historical figures, when taking growth into account.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!KuoB!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F80739dc6-29e8-40dc-a267-fa36f3152caa_790x401.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!KuoB!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F80739dc6-29e8-40dc-a267-fa36f3152caa_790x401.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!KuoB!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F80739dc6-29e8-40dc-a267-fa36f3152caa_790x401.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!KuoB!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F80739dc6-29e8-40dc-a267-fa36f3152caa_790x401.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!KuoB!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F80739dc6-29e8-40dc-a267-fa36f3152caa_790x401.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!KuoB!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F80739dc6-29e8-40dc-a267-fa36f3152caa_790x401.png" width="790" height="401" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/80739dc6-29e8-40dc-a267-fa36f3152caa_790x401.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:401,&quot;width&quot;:790,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:131897,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F80739dc6-29e8-40dc-a267-fa36f3152caa_790x401.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!KuoB!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F80739dc6-29e8-40dc-a267-fa36f3152caa_790x401.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!KuoB!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F80739dc6-29e8-40dc-a267-fa36f3152caa_790x401.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!KuoB!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F80739dc6-29e8-40dc-a267-fa36f3152caa_790x401.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!KuoB!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F80739dc6-29e8-40dc-a267-fa36f3152caa_790x401.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Additionally, just about every public software company is not an &#8220;AI native.&#8221; They are the &#8220;incumbents,&#8221; and while some are considered AI beneficiaries, some are not. This is undoubtedly contributing to the dispersion in multiples.</p><p>Here&#8217;s what my &#8220;high-quality&#8221; software comp set looks like, charting (1) LTM GP multiple vs. Rule of 40 and (2) LTM GP multiple vs. revenue growth:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!sT-0!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fddf129e4-4854-4277-a176-938dc48b1986_2104x1834.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!sT-0!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fddf129e4-4854-4277-a176-938dc48b1986_2104x1834.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!sT-0!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fddf129e4-4854-4277-a176-938dc48b1986_2104x1834.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!sT-0!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fddf129e4-4854-4277-a176-938dc48b1986_2104x1834.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!sT-0!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fddf129e4-4854-4277-a176-938dc48b1986_2104x1834.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!sT-0!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fddf129e4-4854-4277-a176-938dc48b1986_2104x1834.png" width="1456" height="1269" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/ddf129e4-4854-4277-a176-938dc48b1986_2104x1834.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1269,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:210988,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fddf129e4-4854-4277-a176-938dc48b1986_2104x1834.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!sT-0!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fddf129e4-4854-4277-a176-938dc48b1986_2104x1834.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!sT-0!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fddf129e4-4854-4277-a176-938dc48b1986_2104x1834.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!sT-0!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fddf129e4-4854-4277-a176-938dc48b1986_2104x1834.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!sT-0!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fddf129e4-4854-4277-a176-938dc48b1986_2104x1834.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!b_wu!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe28c0020-2a0b-487c-b56b-6c0233edba07_2104x1834.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!b_wu!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe28c0020-2a0b-487c-b56b-6c0233edba07_2104x1834.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!b_wu!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe28c0020-2a0b-487c-b56b-6c0233edba07_2104x1834.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!b_wu!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe28c0020-2a0b-487c-b56b-6c0233edba07_2104x1834.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!b_wu!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe28c0020-2a0b-487c-b56b-6c0233edba07_2104x1834.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!b_wu!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe28c0020-2a0b-487c-b56b-6c0233edba07_2104x1834.png" width="1456" height="1269" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/e28c0020-2a0b-487c-b56b-6c0233edba07_2104x1834.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1269,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:202230,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe28c0020-2a0b-487c-b56b-6c0233edba07_2104x1834.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!b_wu!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe28c0020-2a0b-487c-b56b-6c0233edba07_2104x1834.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!b_wu!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe28c0020-2a0b-487c-b56b-6c0233edba07_2104x1834.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!b_wu!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe28c0020-2a0b-487c-b56b-6c0233edba07_2104x1834.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!b_wu!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe28c0020-2a0b-487c-b56b-6c0233edba07_2104x1834.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>As we can see, Monday trades at a pretty extreme outlier of a multiple, especially when plotting multiple vs. growth. Based on the latter chart, Monday should trade in the vicinity of 3x+ its current multiple.</p><p>If we use Meritech&#8217;s regression analysis, plotting EV/GP vs. Meritech&#8217;s Rule of X (Meritech modifies rule of 40 by multiplying the growth component by 2 to give it extra weighting), we can see that Monday is even more of an outlier.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!W-Dl!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb3be295d-afda-4beb-8b7e-4797a2694839_3750x1564.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!W-Dl!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb3be295d-afda-4beb-8b7e-4797a2694839_3750x1564.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!W-Dl!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb3be295d-afda-4beb-8b7e-4797a2694839_3750x1564.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!W-Dl!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb3be295d-afda-4beb-8b7e-4797a2694839_3750x1564.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!W-Dl!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb3be295d-afda-4beb-8b7e-4797a2694839_3750x1564.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!W-Dl!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb3be295d-afda-4beb-8b7e-4797a2694839_3750x1564.png" width="1456" height="607" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/b3be295d-afda-4beb-8b7e-4797a2694839_3750x1564.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:607,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:704275,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb3be295d-afda-4beb-8b7e-4797a2694839_3750x1564.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!W-Dl!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb3be295d-afda-4beb-8b7e-4797a2694839_3750x1564.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!W-Dl!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb3be295d-afda-4beb-8b7e-4797a2694839_3750x1564.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!W-Dl!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb3be295d-afda-4beb-8b7e-4797a2694839_3750x1564.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!W-Dl!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb3be295d-afda-4beb-8b7e-4797a2694839_3750x1564.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Based on metrics alone, we can make a solid case that Monday should trade 2x+ where it does today.</p><p><em>M&amp;A Comps</em></p><p>Below is a set of software M&amp;A comps.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Iub1!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fefd76d24-875d-414d-8730-d4779f03cb8f_2228x2250.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Iub1!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fefd76d24-875d-414d-8730-d4779f03cb8f_2228x2250.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Iub1!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fefd76d24-875d-414d-8730-d4779f03cb8f_2228x2250.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Iub1!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fefd76d24-875d-414d-8730-d4779f03cb8f_2228x2250.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Iub1!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fefd76d24-875d-414d-8730-d4779f03cb8f_2228x2250.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Iub1!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fefd76d24-875d-414d-8730-d4779f03cb8f_2228x2250.png" width="1456" height="1470" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/efd76d24-875d-414d-8730-d4779f03cb8f_2228x2250.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1470,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:381488,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fefd76d24-875d-414d-8730-d4779f03cb8f_2228x2250.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Iub1!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fefd76d24-875d-414d-8730-d4779f03cb8f_2228x2250.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Iub1!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fefd76d24-875d-414d-8730-d4779f03cb8f_2228x2250.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Iub1!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fefd76d24-875d-414d-8730-d4779f03cb8f_2228x2250.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Iub1!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fefd76d24-875d-414d-8730-d4779f03cb8f_2228x2250.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>The median multiple for this set is 8.3x LTM revenue and 12.5x LTM gross profit.</p><p>Charting GP multiple by Rule of 40, we see a similar correlation to our trading comps. According to this chart, Monday&#8217;s ~50% Rule of 40 would warrant a ~15x GP multiple (vs. ~15-17x according to the trading comps, so roughly in line).</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!258E!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb5b04136-053d-449f-a2ff-df4a6bae49cb_2105x1834.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!258E!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb5b04136-053d-449f-a2ff-df4a6bae49cb_2105x1834.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!258E!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb5b04136-053d-449f-a2ff-df4a6bae49cb_2105x1834.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!258E!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb5b04136-053d-449f-a2ff-df4a6bae49cb_2105x1834.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!258E!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb5b04136-053d-449f-a2ff-df4a6bae49cb_2105x1834.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!258E!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb5b04136-053d-449f-a2ff-df4a6bae49cb_2105x1834.png" width="1456" height="1269" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/b5b04136-053d-449f-a2ff-df4a6bae49cb_2105x1834.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1269,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:225124,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb5b04136-053d-449f-a2ff-df4a6bae49cb_2105x1834.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!258E!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb5b04136-053d-449f-a2ff-df4a6bae49cb_2105x1834.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!258E!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb5b04136-053d-449f-a2ff-df4a6bae49cb_2105x1834.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!258E!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb5b04136-053d-449f-a2ff-df4a6bae49cb_2105x1834.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!258E!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb5b04136-053d-449f-a2ff-df4a6bae49cb_2105x1834.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>If we chart GP multiple by revenue growth, Monday&#8217;s growth rate would warrant a ~13-15x GP multiple (vs. 20x+ according to the trading comps).</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Rt7b!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8c2bdd10-f2be-45aa-bd56-255672db0b4f_2104x1834.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Rt7b!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8c2bdd10-f2be-45aa-bd56-255672db0b4f_2104x1834.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Rt7b!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8c2bdd10-f2be-45aa-bd56-255672db0b4f_2104x1834.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Rt7b!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8c2bdd10-f2be-45aa-bd56-255672db0b4f_2104x1834.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Rt7b!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8c2bdd10-f2be-45aa-bd56-255672db0b4f_2104x1834.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Rt7b!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8c2bdd10-f2be-45aa-bd56-255672db0b4f_2104x1834.png" width="1456" height="1269" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/8c2bdd10-f2be-45aa-bd56-255672db0b4f_2104x1834.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1269,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:239108,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8c2bdd10-f2be-45aa-bd56-255672db0b4f_2104x1834.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Rt7b!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8c2bdd10-f2be-45aa-bd56-255672db0b4f_2104x1834.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Rt7b!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8c2bdd10-f2be-45aa-bd56-255672db0b4f_2104x1834.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Rt7b!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8c2bdd10-f2be-45aa-bd56-255672db0b4f_2104x1834.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Rt7b!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8c2bdd10-f2be-45aa-bd56-255672db0b4f_2104x1834.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p><em>Where Should Monday Trade?</em></p><p>Going off metrics alone, Monday should trade at twice its current valuation &#8212; or at a mid-teens LTM GP multiple (vs. where it trades today around ~6x). </p><p>For the model I use a range of 4.0-6.5x NTM revenue at exit. Based on where multiples are today and based on the fact that I have Monday converging to a ~37% Rule of 40 in the outer years, this would represent a conservative range, in theory. We can see from the regression analysis below that the trendline for a ~37% Rule of 40 company equates to a ~6.5x NTM revenue multiple &#8212; which I use as the top of my range. </p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!yU6L!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff29c2606-26db-4a66-aea6-da3ebcced318_3761x1626.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!yU6L!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff29c2606-26db-4a66-aea6-da3ebcced318_3761x1626.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!yU6L!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff29c2606-26db-4a66-aea6-da3ebcced318_3761x1626.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!yU6L!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff29c2606-26db-4a66-aea6-da3ebcced318_3761x1626.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!yU6L!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff29c2606-26db-4a66-aea6-da3ebcced318_3761x1626.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!yU6L!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff29c2606-26db-4a66-aea6-da3ebcced318_3761x1626.png" width="1456" height="629" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/f29c2606-26db-4a66-aea6-da3ebcced318_3761x1626.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:629,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:651638,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff29c2606-26db-4a66-aea6-da3ebcced318_3761x1626.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!yU6L!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff29c2606-26db-4a66-aea6-da3ebcced318_3761x1626.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!yU6L!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff29c2606-26db-4a66-aea6-da3ebcced318_3761x1626.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!yU6L!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff29c2606-26db-4a66-aea6-da3ebcced318_3761x1626.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!yU6L!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff29c2606-26db-4a66-aea6-da3ebcced318_3761x1626.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p><em>5-Year Model / Returns Analysis</em></p><p>For my simple model, I estimate growth using (1) estimated revenue growth from existing customers (i.e. NRR applied to prior year&#8217;s revenue) + (2) estimated revenue from new customers. </p><p>In the forward years, I assume:</p><ul><li><p>NRR steps down gradually from ~111% today to ~106% in 2031</p></li><li><p>Revenue from new customers stays constant at ~$140m, a haircut to the $154m average of the 2023-2025e period (we can back into this historical average by removing the growth from existing customers implied by Monday&#8217;s NRR from overall incremental revenue)</p></li><li><p>Non-GAAP EBIT margins climb to 26% by 2031 (vs. 14% in 2024)</p></li></ul><p>If we assume Monday trades at 5.0x NTM revenue at the end of 2030 (or ~18x NTM FCF), that equates to a 2.2x MOIC and a 18% IRR:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!7MIK!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6f92d9e8-c137-49d4-ba3a-0cb22e68bed7_2824x2250.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!7MIK!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6f92d9e8-c137-49d4-ba3a-0cb22e68bed7_2824x2250.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!7MIK!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6f92d9e8-c137-49d4-ba3a-0cb22e68bed7_2824x2250.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!7MIK!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6f92d9e8-c137-49d4-ba3a-0cb22e68bed7_2824x2250.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!7MIK!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6f92d9e8-c137-49d4-ba3a-0cb22e68bed7_2824x2250.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!7MIK!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6f92d9e8-c137-49d4-ba3a-0cb22e68bed7_2824x2250.png" width="1456" height="1160" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/6f92d9e8-c137-49d4-ba3a-0cb22e68bed7_2824x2250.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1160,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:552483,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6f92d9e8-c137-49d4-ba3a-0cb22e68bed7_2824x2250.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!7MIK!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6f92d9e8-c137-49d4-ba3a-0cb22e68bed7_2824x2250.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!7MIK!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6f92d9e8-c137-49d4-ba3a-0cb22e68bed7_2824x2250.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!7MIK!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6f92d9e8-c137-49d4-ba3a-0cb22e68bed7_2824x2250.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!7MIK!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6f92d9e8-c137-49d4-ba3a-0cb22e68bed7_2824x2250.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Below is a sensitivity table showing theoretical IRRs at different entry prices and exit multiples. </p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OijM!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd5e6c2d4-89c3-4897-ab73-8d02328ea832_1623x749.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OijM!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd5e6c2d4-89c3-4897-ab73-8d02328ea832_1623x749.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OijM!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd5e6c2d4-89c3-4897-ab73-8d02328ea832_1623x749.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OijM!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd5e6c2d4-89c3-4897-ab73-8d02328ea832_1623x749.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OijM!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd5e6c2d4-89c3-4897-ab73-8d02328ea832_1623x749.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OijM!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd5e6c2d4-89c3-4897-ab73-8d02328ea832_1623x749.png" width="627" height="289.38461538461536" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/d5e6c2d4-89c3-4897-ab73-8d02328ea832_1623x749.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:672,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:627,&quot;bytes&quot;:111332,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd5e6c2d4-89c3-4897-ab73-8d02328ea832_1623x749.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OijM!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd5e6c2d4-89c3-4897-ab73-8d02328ea832_1623x749.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OijM!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd5e6c2d4-89c3-4897-ab73-8d02328ea832_1623x749.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OijM!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd5e6c2d4-89c3-4897-ab73-8d02328ea832_1623x749.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OijM!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd5e6c2d4-89c3-4897-ab73-8d02328ea832_1623x749.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p><em>Can Monday Generate a 106% NRR in 2031? </em></p><p>Let&#8217;s take a closer look at this assumption.</p><p>To start, it&#8217;s worth noting that Monday&#8217;s overall NRR is actually still technically growing (if we exclude 2021-2022) &#8212; from 100% in 2019 to 112% in 2024. </p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!qKBo!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff5443561-bb30-4c40-bb12-0a0fb7624aab_4116x2585.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!qKBo!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff5443561-bb30-4c40-bb12-0a0fb7624aab_4116x2585.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!qKBo!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff5443561-bb30-4c40-bb12-0a0fb7624aab_4116x2585.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!qKBo!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff5443561-bb30-4c40-bb12-0a0fb7624aab_4116x2585.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!qKBo!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff5443561-bb30-4c40-bb12-0a0fb7624aab_4116x2585.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!qKBo!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff5443561-bb30-4c40-bb12-0a0fb7624aab_4116x2585.png" width="1456" height="914" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/f5443561-bb30-4c40-bb12-0a0fb7624aab_4116x2585.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:914,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:832493,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff5443561-bb30-4c40-bb12-0a0fb7624aab_4116x2585.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!qKBo!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff5443561-bb30-4c40-bb12-0a0fb7624aab_4116x2585.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!qKBo!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff5443561-bb30-4c40-bb12-0a0fb7624aab_4116x2585.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!qKBo!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff5443561-bb30-4c40-bb12-0a0fb7624aab_4116x2585.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!qKBo!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff5443561-bb30-4c40-bb12-0a0fb7624aab_4116x2585.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>However, it seems NRRs are on the cusp of beginning their decline, which is inevitable.</p><p>Management provided this commentary around NRRs at their Sep-25 investor day:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;We believe we have a lot of room for upside with NDR, which means that in the next few years, we think that potentially NDR for all customers, <strong>maybe 110% to 115% and NDR for customers above $50,000</strong> or the enterprise customers, as we call them, will be in the range of 115% to 120%.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>In other words, management expects that NRRs are likely to stay at current levels for &#8220;the next few years,&#8221; with perhaps even a little upside.</p><p>It&#8217;s worth noting that management guidance in past has been accurate with regards to NRR. At their 2023 investor day, in the midst of NRRs dropping rapidly from the 140-150% level for the $50K+ cohort, Monday stated that they believed NRRs would stabilize in the 110-120% range:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;We went to 140s, 150s. But then I think the normalized number that we are looking at is between 110 to 120. And we&#8217;re very consistent with this message&#8230;In addition to that, our gross retention profile remained very stable and our churn remains very stable, and it <strong>provides us with a lot of confidence that we are going to see this number in the range of 110 to 120 over the next few years. And potentially</strong> with everything that we are doing &#8212; the product, mondayDB, the add-ons, upsell, cross-sell &#8212; <strong>we&#8217;re also going to see some uptick</strong> in the future.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>This is exactly what happened, with NRRs for this cohort stabilizing at ~115% for 2023 before ticking back up a bit to 116% in 2024.</p><p>Furthermore, Monday benefits from certain factors that should help buoy its NRRs over the next few years (and beyond):</p><ul><li><p>Monday is like a tapeworm. It gets into an organization and then spreads. It&#8217;s not software where a bunch of licenses are sold upfront&#8212; it&#8217;s the opposite of that. This should support a naturally higher NRR than the average software business. Here&#8217;s a case study that management presented at its 2023 investor day.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-31" href="#footnote-31" target="_self">31</a></p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!x-nf!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2bdac72e-2444-42c0-924c-a996fd7d325a_1061x586.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!x-nf!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2bdac72e-2444-42c0-924c-a996fd7d325a_1061x586.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!x-nf!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2bdac72e-2444-42c0-924c-a996fd7d325a_1061x586.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!x-nf!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2bdac72e-2444-42c0-924c-a996fd7d325a_1061x586.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!x-nf!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2bdac72e-2444-42c0-924c-a996fd7d325a_1061x586.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!x-nf!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2bdac72e-2444-42c0-924c-a996fd7d325a_1061x586.png" width="1061" height="586" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/2bdac72e-2444-42c0-924c-a996fd7d325a_1061x586.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:586,&quot;width&quot;:1061,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:137863,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2bdac72e-2444-42c0-924c-a996fd7d325a_1061x586.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!x-nf!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2bdac72e-2444-42c0-924c-a996fd7d325a_1061x586.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!x-nf!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2bdac72e-2444-42c0-924c-a996fd7d325a_1061x586.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!x-nf!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2bdac72e-2444-42c0-924c-a996fd7d325a_1061x586.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!x-nf!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2bdac72e-2444-42c0-924c-a996fd7d325a_1061x586.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>While not necessarily the typical customer experience, this customer started with 5 seats and expanded steadily to 7.5k over 5 years. Below is another case study from their 2025 investor day. This customer started with 15 seats and expanded seat count to 9.6k over 4 years.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-32" href="#footnote-32" target="_self">32</a></p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Y5N1!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F38590515-f08e-446c-ab50-926cabc7699f_1086x608.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Y5N1!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F38590515-f08e-446c-ab50-926cabc7699f_1086x608.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Y5N1!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F38590515-f08e-446c-ab50-926cabc7699f_1086x608.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Y5N1!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F38590515-f08e-446c-ab50-926cabc7699f_1086x608.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Y5N1!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F38590515-f08e-446c-ab50-926cabc7699f_1086x608.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Y5N1!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F38590515-f08e-446c-ab50-926cabc7699f_1086x608.png" width="1086" height="608" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/38590515-f08e-446c-ab50-926cabc7699f_1086x608.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:608,&quot;width&quot;:1086,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:508999,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F38590515-f08e-446c-ab50-926cabc7699f_1086x608.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Y5N1!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F38590515-f08e-446c-ab50-926cabc7699f_1086x608.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Y5N1!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F38590515-f08e-446c-ab50-926cabc7699f_1086x608.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Y5N1!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F38590515-f08e-446c-ab50-926cabc7699f_1086x608.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Y5N1!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F38590515-f08e-446c-ab50-926cabc7699f_1086x608.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div></li><li><p>Huge TAM</p></li><li><p>Upmarket opportunity. Monday has been successfully moving upmarket and this trend is still in the very early innings. </p></li><li><p>Cross-sell opportunity. Monday can cross-sell CRM (+ Campaigns), Dev and Service. CRM has seen nice uptake. Service, while early, is showing promise. Monday just launched bundled offerings in Q4&#8217;25, which should be a tailwind</p></li><li><p>AI monetization. While not something I&#8217;d necessarily bake into projections at this point, this provides additional upside (through consumption pricing or higher seat-based pricing). </p></li></ul><p>Based on (1) the NRR guidance from their 2025 investor day and (2) the positive forces that should help sustain NRRs, I think my NRR assumptions are reasonable.</p><p>As a sanity check &#8212; my assumptions result in revenue of $1.77bn in 2027, which is slightly below the guidance management provided at Monday&#8217;s Sep-25 investor day:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!fkEd!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F7f6c3143-21e1-451e-8a37-1a53ee7d1616_1120x624.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!fkEd!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F7f6c3143-21e1-451e-8a37-1a53ee7d1616_1120x624.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!fkEd!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F7f6c3143-21e1-451e-8a37-1a53ee7d1616_1120x624.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!fkEd!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F7f6c3143-21e1-451e-8a37-1a53ee7d1616_1120x624.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!fkEd!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F7f6c3143-21e1-451e-8a37-1a53ee7d1616_1120x624.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!fkEd!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F7f6c3143-21e1-451e-8a37-1a53ee7d1616_1120x624.png" width="1120" height="624" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/7f6c3143-21e1-451e-8a37-1a53ee7d1616_1120x624.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:624,&quot;width&quot;:1120,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:76054,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F7f6c3143-21e1-451e-8a37-1a53ee7d1616_1120x624.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!fkEd!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F7f6c3143-21e1-451e-8a37-1a53ee7d1616_1120x624.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!fkEd!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F7f6c3143-21e1-451e-8a37-1a53ee7d1616_1120x624.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!fkEd!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F7f6c3143-21e1-451e-8a37-1a53ee7d1616_1120x624.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!fkEd!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F7f6c3143-21e1-451e-8a37-1a53ee7d1616_1120x624.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p><em>Can Monday Generate a 26% Margin in 2031e?</em></p><p>My model calls for a 26% non-GAAP operating margin by 2031, up from 14% in 2024. Here is the model scenario for opex as a % of revenue:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Nrzg!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa4cebebf-a93e-4c9b-a507-3853e21355c4_1651x1775.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Nrzg!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa4cebebf-a93e-4c9b-a507-3853e21355c4_1651x1775.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Nrzg!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa4cebebf-a93e-4c9b-a507-3853e21355c4_1651x1775.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Nrzg!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa4cebebf-a93e-4c9b-a507-3853e21355c4_1651x1775.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Nrzg!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa4cebebf-a93e-4c9b-a507-3853e21355c4_1651x1775.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Nrzg!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa4cebebf-a93e-4c9b-a507-3853e21355c4_1651x1775.png" width="549" height="590.0995879120879" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/a4cebebf-a93e-4c9b-a507-3853e21355c4_1651x1775.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1565,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:549,&quot;bytes&quot;:209516,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa4cebebf-a93e-4c9b-a507-3853e21355c4_1651x1775.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Nrzg!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa4cebebf-a93e-4c9b-a507-3853e21355c4_1651x1775.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Nrzg!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa4cebebf-a93e-4c9b-a507-3853e21355c4_1651x1775.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Nrzg!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa4cebebf-a93e-4c9b-a507-3853e21355c4_1651x1775.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Nrzg!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa4cebebf-a93e-4c9b-a507-3853e21355c4_1651x1775.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>And margins:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!8QKB!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F75399f57-08f6-4dc8-8dc9-0fd7b14dac47_1651x1774.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!8QKB!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F75399f57-08f6-4dc8-8dc9-0fd7b14dac47_1651x1774.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!8QKB!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F75399f57-08f6-4dc8-8dc9-0fd7b14dac47_1651x1774.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!8QKB!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F75399f57-08f6-4dc8-8dc9-0fd7b14dac47_1651x1774.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!8QKB!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F75399f57-08f6-4dc8-8dc9-0fd7b14dac47_1651x1774.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!8QKB!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F75399f57-08f6-4dc8-8dc9-0fd7b14dac47_1651x1774.png" width="551" height="591.8708791208791" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/75399f57-08f6-4dc8-8dc9-0fd7b14dac47_1651x1774.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1564,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:551,&quot;bytes&quot;:196955,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F75399f57-08f6-4dc8-8dc9-0fd7b14dac47_1651x1774.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!8QKB!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F75399f57-08f6-4dc8-8dc9-0fd7b14dac47_1651x1774.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!8QKB!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F75399f57-08f6-4dc8-8dc9-0fd7b14dac47_1651x1774.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!8QKB!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F75399f57-08f6-4dc8-8dc9-0fd7b14dac47_1651x1774.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!8QKB!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F75399f57-08f6-4dc8-8dc9-0fd7b14dac47_1651x1774.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>A 26% margin would be around average for the peer group:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!UW8C!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6d3b1c9b-49d7-4e59-9c84-c5ef267c77cf_2237x1780.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!UW8C!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6d3b1c9b-49d7-4e59-9c84-c5ef267c77cf_2237x1780.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!UW8C!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6d3b1c9b-49d7-4e59-9c84-c5ef267c77cf_2237x1780.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!UW8C!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6d3b1c9b-49d7-4e59-9c84-c5ef267c77cf_2237x1780.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!UW8C!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6d3b1c9b-49d7-4e59-9c84-c5ef267c77cf_2237x1780.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!UW8C!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6d3b1c9b-49d7-4e59-9c84-c5ef267c77cf_2237x1780.png" width="1456" height="1159" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/6d3b1c9b-49d7-4e59-9c84-c5ef267c77cf_2237x1780.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1159,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:428616,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6d3b1c9b-49d7-4e59-9c84-c5ef267c77cf_2237x1780.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!UW8C!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6d3b1c9b-49d7-4e59-9c84-c5ef267c77cf_2237x1780.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!UW8C!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6d3b1c9b-49d7-4e59-9c84-c5ef267c77cf_2237x1780.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!UW8C!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6d3b1c9b-49d7-4e59-9c84-c5ef267c77cf_2237x1780.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!UW8C!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6d3b1c9b-49d7-4e59-9c84-c5ef267c77cf_2237x1780.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>I think this margin profile achievable:</p><ul><li><p>Monday has best-in-class GMs of ~90%. Only Asana and Autodesk have better gross margins in the comp set.</p></li><li><p>Monday has a very efficient R&amp;D organization. Monday spends just 22% of revenue on R&amp;D. </p></li><li><p>Margins really come down to S&amp;M. Monday spends a lot on S&amp;M, which clocks in at 55% of revenue for 2024. But a key distinction is that Monday is pretty efficient with its spend &#8212; it just spends a lot. Thus, as growth tapers, S&amp;M should settle in a zone that provides for healthy overall margins. </p></li></ul><p>Here again is Monday&#8217;s CAC vs. its horizontal peers for 2024:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!q1h9!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F53bfe94a-bf8d-4bf2-ad00-b606ce561049_1616x1910.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!q1h9!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F53bfe94a-bf8d-4bf2-ad00-b606ce561049_1616x1910.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!q1h9!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F53bfe94a-bf8d-4bf2-ad00-b606ce561049_1616x1910.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!q1h9!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F53bfe94a-bf8d-4bf2-ad00-b606ce561049_1616x1910.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!q1h9!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F53bfe94a-bf8d-4bf2-ad00-b606ce561049_1616x1910.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!q1h9!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F53bfe94a-bf8d-4bf2-ad00-b606ce561049_1616x1910.png" width="555" height="656.0130494505495" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/53bfe94a-bf8d-4bf2-ad00-b606ce561049_1616x1910.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1721,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:555,&quot;bytes&quot;:229610,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F53bfe94a-bf8d-4bf2-ad00-b606ce561049_1616x1910.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!q1h9!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F53bfe94a-bf8d-4bf2-ad00-b606ce561049_1616x1910.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!q1h9!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F53bfe94a-bf8d-4bf2-ad00-b606ce561049_1616x1910.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!q1h9!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F53bfe94a-bf8d-4bf2-ad00-b606ce561049_1616x1910.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!q1h9!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F53bfe94a-bf8d-4bf2-ad00-b606ce561049_1616x1910.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Here is the implied GM-adj CAC payback for the model case. I&#8217;m assuming CAC almost doubles from ~29 months to ~53 months in 2031.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!O7ph!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F802aa826-c2fe-4de7-8d1c-255bf721b2b2_1651x1776.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!O7ph!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F802aa826-c2fe-4de7-8d1c-255bf721b2b2_1651x1776.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!O7ph!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F802aa826-c2fe-4de7-8d1c-255bf721b2b2_1651x1776.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!O7ph!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F802aa826-c2fe-4de7-8d1c-255bf721b2b2_1651x1776.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!O7ph!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F802aa826-c2fe-4de7-8d1c-255bf721b2b2_1651x1776.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!O7ph!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F802aa826-c2fe-4de7-8d1c-255bf721b2b2_1651x1776.png" width="551" height="592.6277472527472" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/802aa826-c2fe-4de7-8d1c-255bf721b2b2_1651x1776.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1566,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:551,&quot;bytes&quot;:95419,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F802aa826-c2fe-4de7-8d1c-255bf721b2b2_1651x1776.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!O7ph!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F802aa826-c2fe-4de7-8d1c-255bf721b2b2_1651x1776.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!O7ph!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F802aa826-c2fe-4de7-8d1c-255bf721b2b2_1651x1776.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!O7ph!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F802aa826-c2fe-4de7-8d1c-255bf721b2b2_1651x1776.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!O7ph!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F802aa826-c2fe-4de7-8d1c-255bf721b2b2_1651x1776.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>A ~53 month payback would put it amongst the very worst in the peer group. Only Asana and Salesforce had worse paybacks in 2024 &#8212; a year that was generally not good for CAC metrics across the industry.</p><p>Here is how CAC has trended over time for Monday&#8217;s peers:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OBpK!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9a207b34-5c22-4855-9a95-216cd2143ab3_2506x1987.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OBpK!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9a207b34-5c22-4855-9a95-216cd2143ab3_2506x1987.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OBpK!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9a207b34-5c22-4855-9a95-216cd2143ab3_2506x1987.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OBpK!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9a207b34-5c22-4855-9a95-216cd2143ab3_2506x1987.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OBpK!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9a207b34-5c22-4855-9a95-216cd2143ab3_2506x1987.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OBpK!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9a207b34-5c22-4855-9a95-216cd2143ab3_2506x1987.png" width="1456" height="1154" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/9a207b34-5c22-4855-9a95-216cd2143ab3_2506x1987.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1154,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:350984,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9a207b34-5c22-4855-9a95-216cd2143ab3_2506x1987.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OBpK!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9a207b34-5c22-4855-9a95-216cd2143ab3_2506x1987.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OBpK!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9a207b34-5c22-4855-9a95-216cd2143ab3_2506x1987.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OBpK!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9a207b34-5c22-4855-9a95-216cd2143ab3_2506x1987.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OBpK!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9a207b34-5c22-4855-9a95-216cd2143ab3_2506x1987.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>An important note is that Monday has been aggressively ramping its S&amp;M spend, largely on its sales team, as discussed in the GTM section. This has undoubtedly put pressure on its CAC (i.e. lots of new, not fully ramped hires). Given hiring is set to slow over the next 18 months, and that the existing GTM org will continue to ramp/mature, this should help suppress CAC. </p><p>Other factors that could help suppress CAC: (1) Monday now has a suite of products to go to market with, giving Monday more flexibility in its marketing spend, (2) cross sell should boost sales without the corresponding S&amp;M spend and (3) Monday has become the consensus highest rated WM solution in the market.</p><p>Offsetting this are the top of funnel headwinds that Monday is seeing in search.</p><p>While I worry a bit more about my margin assumption vs. my growth assumption, I&#8217;m pretty comfortable with it. I assume no leverage in R&amp;D. I assume a small amount of leverage to G&amp;A. And for S&amp;M, I&#8217;m assuming CAC climbs to a level only exceeded by 2 of Monday&#8217;s peers, while a maturing salesforce and a growing cross sell motion should help suppress this figure.</p><p><em>&#8220;Dead Money&#8221; Scenario</em></p><p>Below is a &#8220;dead money&#8221; scenario, or a scenario where shares go nowhere over the next 5 years.</p><p>Here I assume:</p><ul><li><p>NRR steps down from ~111% today to ~100% in 2031. This would be represent the worst NRR in the peer group (out of those who report it) other than Asana</p></li><li><p>New revenue from new customers falls over time from $154m to $119m</p></li><li><p>This results in revenue growth slowing to 5% by 2031</p></li><li><p>Non-GAAP EBIT margins grow from 14% to 17%. This is well under what I believe is achievable. In fact I think Monday can realistically get close to these levels by 2027 as the pace of hiring tapers off in H2&#8217;25 and 2026.</p></li><li><p>Monday ultimately trades at 3x fwd revenue, 3.5x fwd GP and 15x fwd FCF. This would represent lowest multiple in the entire M&amp;A comp set</p></li></ul><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!rYmz!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6ca9797e-e7cd-4983-a703-b3284e57d22d_2824x2250.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!rYmz!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6ca9797e-e7cd-4983-a703-b3284e57d22d_2824x2250.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!rYmz!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6ca9797e-e7cd-4983-a703-b3284e57d22d_2824x2250.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!rYmz!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6ca9797e-e7cd-4983-a703-b3284e57d22d_2824x2250.png" width="1456" height="1160" 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6ca9797e-e7cd-4983-a703-b3284e57d22d_2824x2250.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!rYmz!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6ca9797e-e7cd-4983-a703-b3284e57d22d_2824x2250.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!rYmz!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6ca9797e-e7cd-4983-a703-b3284e57d22d_2824x2250.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!rYmz!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6ca9797e-e7cd-4983-a703-b3284e57d22d_2824x2250.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Under this highly draconian scenario, in theory we still don&#8217;t even lose money.</p><p><em>Upside Scenario</em></p><p>In an upside scenario, Monday CRM and Service continue on their current trajectories, the overall business continues to grow strongly for many years, and the stock re-rates as a &#8220;ServiceNow-lite&#8221; + AI winner. In such a scenario, over a ~5 year period, the business could ~2-2.5x while the multiple could conceivably 1.5-2.0x+ (for a 3-5x bagger), but don&#8217;t quote me on that. </p><div><hr></div><h2>Management + Ownership</h2><p>Management has an impressive track record:</p><ul><li><p>Built a great product. Launching into a mature and hyper competitive space (project/work management), they&#8217;ve emerged as the top player. They&#8217;ve threaded the needle between offering a user-friendly product, high flexibility and enterprise-level capabilities.</p></li><li><p>Financial efficiency. Monday has a highly efficient R&amp;D function and a relatively efficient S&amp;M function. They&#8217;ve built a ~$1bn+ revenue business on $121m of VC capital. They were a rule of 60%+ business in 2024 (if we use FCF margin), and will generate over $1bn in excess FCF from 2023-2026.</p></li><li><p>Big Brain. Roy &amp; Eran had the great foresight of building Big Brain in the very early days of Monday. This has allowed them to grow much quicker than they otherwise would have and develop a highly sophisticated performance marketing engine. Big Brain continues to provide significant leverage by all accounts, and has reinforced a data-driven culture.</p></li><li><p>Successful move upmarket. While many companies struggle to move upmarket, Monday has made it look easy thus far. </p></li><li><p>Promising set of new offerings. Monday has transitioned to a multi-product, &#8220;platform&#8221; business (a &#8220;ServiceNow-lite&#8221;). CRM and Service show early signs of very healthy PMF. </p></li><li><p>Great culture. Monday seems to have a high quality culture (more on this below). They stress speed of development, high autonomy, and high transparency. </p></li></ul><p><em>Roy Mann &amp; Eran Zinman (Co-Founders, Co-CEOs)</em></p><p>Roy and Eran co-founded Monday in 2012. Both Roy and Eran would consider themselves primarily product people, and are both developers by background. </p><p>Roy and Eran knew each other for many years prior to co-founding Monday. The two met in Unit 9900 of the IDF&#8217;s Intelligence Corps. Roy actually recruited Eran to a team that he led in the unit.</p><p>Prior to Co-Founding Monday, Roy was the CTO of Wix.com. Prior to Wix he was the founder and Co-CEO of SaveAnAlien.com, a social gaming company. He was a self-taught developer from a young age and has a BA in Computer Science from the Interdisciplinary Center Herzliya, Israel. Roy is 46 years old. </p><p>Prior to Co-Founding Monday, Eran founded a failed start-up called Othersay. Othersay was &#8220;an intelligent vertical search engine for user reviews&#8221; that involved &#8220;crawling the web using distributed algorithms, parsing, collecting and processing large scale of user reviews.&#8221; Prior to that, he worked a number of other jobs in an engineering capacity. Eran and Roy both share a passion for gaming &#8212; Eran at one point was the #4 ranked player in the world in &#8220;Red Alert.&#8221; Eran is 41 years old. </p><p>Roy and Eran decided early on to not split into different roles like CEO and CTO, opting to rather &#8220;do everything together&#8221; as Co-CEOs. They even reportedly walk home together just about every day from the Monday offices. They credit having each other/sharing the burden of managing Monday as being critical to their success.</p><p><em>Broader Management Team</em></p><ul><li><p><em>Eliran Glazer (CFO). </em>Eliran Glazer has served as CFO since Mar-21, joining just ~4 months before Monday&#8217;s IPO. He previously served as the CFO of Lightricks from Dec-19 to Feb-21 and the CFO of Nex Markets from Apr-12 to Nov-19. Nex Markets was acquired by CME in Nov-18. Eliran holds a B.A. in Business and Accounting from The College of Management Academic Studies as well as an L.L.M. from Bar Ilan University and is a licensed certified public accountant.</p></li><li><p><em>Daniel Lereya (CPO, CTO). </em>Daniel Lereya has served as Chief Product and Technology Officer since 2023 and previously served as VP of R&amp;D since 2016 and VP of Product since 2020. Lereya previously served in numerous positions, including as a software team leader at IBM from 2012 to 2016, and as a software engineer at SAP from 2011 to 2012. Lereya holds a B.Sc. in Computer Science and Economics from Tel Aviv University, Israel.</p></li><li><p><em>Casey George (CRO)</em> George was brought on in 2025 to replace Yoni Osherov, who left to join Entree Capital as a GP. Previously, George was the Executive VP of Global Sales at Qlik, a data and analytics cloud company, where he was responsible for $1.3B in ARR and over 1,000 employees across sales, channels and alliances, operations, and GTM. He joined Qlik through its acquisition of Talend, a data integration software company, where he served as CRO. Before Talend, George was the Senior VP and GM at Verint, a leader in customer engagement, and held several leadership roles during his two-decade plus tenure at IBM, with the latest being GM of the company's North American cybersecurity business.</p></li></ul><p><em>Notable Departures</em></p><ul><li><p>Yoni Osherov. Former CRO of Monday from 2017-2025. Now GP at Entree Capital</p></li><li><p>Michal Lupu. Former VP of Product Growth &amp; Strategy from 2023-2024. Joined Monday as a Product Manager in 2017. Now Co-Founder &amp; CEO of Blocks, a start-up for which Monday led a $10m seed investment in Sep-25</p></li><li><p>Tal Haramati. Former VP of Technology from 2014-2023. Now Co-Founder &amp; CTO of Blocks</p></li><li><p>Tom Ronen. Former VP of Customer Success from 2017-2025. Now VP of Customer Success at Harvey</p></li></ul><p><em>Board of Directors</em></p><ul><li><p>Jeff Horing (Chairman). Co-founded Insight Venture Partners in 1995. Insight is a software specialist that invests from early stage all the way to traditional LBOs, with a sweet spot in high-growth, &#8220;venture buyouts.&#8221; Insight uniquely employs all these strategies out of mostly one fund, and it raised its thirteenth such flagship fund in Jan-25, a $12.5bn vehicle. Currently Jeff serves on the boards of nCino [Nasdaq:NCNO] and WalkMe [NYSE:WKME] amongst others. Has served on the Monday BoD since 2017. Insight has enjoyed particular success in Israel, having backed Monday, Wix ($10bn mkt cap), and Wiz (acquired by Alphabet for $32bn). Jeff was recently interviewed on the <em>Invest Like the Best</em> podcast. On the podcast he mentioned five ingredients he looks for in a &#8220;perfect&#8221; investment: (1) big customer ROI/value proposition, (2) high ASP, (3) quick customer &#8220;time-to-value,&#8221; (4) a great CEO, and (5) a great tech team. He called out two companies &#8212; Monday and Wiz &#8212; as companies that stood out in particular as ones that checked most of these boxes: &#8220;I think Wiz may have been the N of 1 [that checked all five], and maybe Monday had a bunch of that too, but it&#8217;s rare.&#8221; </p></li><li><p>Avishai Abrahami. Co-Founder of Wix and CEO since 2010 (prior to which he served as Co-CEO). Monday Co-Founder Roy Mann was CTO of Wix prior to founding Monday. Avishai provided seed capital for Monday and Wix was Monday&#8217;s first customer. Monday initially worked out of Wix&#8217;s offices. Avishai has served on the BoD since 2012</p></li><li><p>Gili Iohan. Partner at ION Crossover Partners, an Israeli based crossover fund, since 2018. Currently serves on the boards of Varonis Systems [Nasdaq:VRNS] and Fiverr [Nasdaq:FVRR] amongst others. Has served on the BoD since 2021</p></li><li><p>Avi Eyal. Co-Founded of Entree Capital in 2011. Entree is a leading Israeli VC/growth fund, with ~$1bn in AUM that is investing out of its 4th early-stage fund and 2nd growth fund. Has served on the BoD since 2014</p></li><li><p>Ronen Faier. Former CFO of SolarEdge Technologies [Nasdaq:SEDG]. Former CFO of M-Systems, which was acquired by SanDisk. Has served on the BoD since 2021</p></li><li><p>Petra Jenner. Current SVP &amp; GM for EMEA at Splunk. Formerly with Salesforce, Microsoft, Checkpoint Software and Pivotal. Has served on the BoD since 2024</p></li></ul><p><em>Monday Culture</em><a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-33" href="#footnote-33" target="_self">33</a></p><p>Monday&#8217;s key cultural tenets include:</p><ul><li><p>Speed</p></li><li><p>Data driven</p></li><li><p>High transparency</p></li></ul><p>Monday is structured to maximize speed of product development. For them, this means: (1) small, agile teams<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-34" href="#footnote-34" target="_self">34</a> (2) multi-disciplinary teams (engineers + designers + product managers + data analysts) that can own products from end-to-end, (3) decentralized decision-making / ability to act autonomously, and (4) high talent density (i.e. quality over quantity).</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!uDjp!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa65918c6-14a9-4443-b2ac-33ceb999e800_984x550.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!uDjp!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, 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y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Here is commentary from Eran from a Dec-24 Logan Bartlett show:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;One core principle that we always had is <strong>giving people as much ownership and autonomy as possible.</strong> So even now, with the new products that we launched, each one of those teams is independent. They make their own decisions, they have their own KPIs and they drive the company forward, which I love. Because we created this startup mentality within our large organization. And they&#8217;re very ambitious, they&#8217;re quick to respond and they feel the ownership is on their shoulders. </em></p><p><em>So I think that&#8217;s something we&#8217;ve created that&#8217;s very efficient. <strong>If you look at the sheer percentages, our R&amp;D is relatively small compared to other companies</strong> just in terms of expenses. <strong>We always believed that having a small team, that&#8217;s very effective, is much better than having a lot of developers moving very slowly.</strong> </em></p><p><em>So we always optimize for talent. We always optimize for quick decision-making&#8230;We give them this ownership and we say, &#8220;we trust you, go for it.&#8221; And that&#8217;s led to the most amazing results within the company. I think that companies begin to slow down when you have to get management confirmation for everything you want to do. <strong>So we try to avoid this as much as we can</strong>.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>And we can see this rapid pace of product development and innovation. Since 2022, they have released a huge number of products:</p><ul><li><p>Monday CRM</p></li><li><p>Monday Dev</p></li><li><p>Monday Service</p></li><li><p>Monday Campaigns</p></li><li><p>Monday Workflows</p></li><li><p>AI Blocks</p></li><li><p>Monday Sidekick</p></li><li><p>Monday Magic</p></li><li><p>Monday Vibe</p></li><li><p>Monday Agents, including an SDR agent (Chris) and a Service agent</p></li><li><p>MondayDB 1.0</p></li><li><p>MondayDB 2.0</p></li><li><p>MondayDB 3.0</p></li></ul><p>Combining a rapid pace of innovation + the efficiency with which they are doing it, seems to imply that something is going very right.</p><p>Monday is highly data-driven. From the very beginning Monday tracked &#8220;everything&#8221; in their custom-built BI engine, Big Brain. Monday is known for covering its office walls with monitors detailing KPIs.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!k5Qj!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F31cf156b-c68e-43ae-be7e-8f0b30485296_840x466.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!k5Qj!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F31cf156b-c68e-43ae-be7e-8f0b30485296_840x466.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!k5Qj!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F31cf156b-c68e-43ae-be7e-8f0b30485296_840x466.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!k5Qj!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F31cf156b-c68e-43ae-be7e-8f0b30485296_840x466.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!k5Qj!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F31cf156b-c68e-43ae-be7e-8f0b30485296_840x466.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!k5Qj!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F31cf156b-c68e-43ae-be7e-8f0b30485296_840x466.png" width="840" height="466" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/31cf156b-c68e-43ae-be7e-8f0b30485296_840x466.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:466,&quot;width&quot;:840,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:553566,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F31cf156b-c68e-43ae-be7e-8f0b30485296_840x466.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!k5Qj!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F31cf156b-c68e-43ae-be7e-8f0b30485296_840x466.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!k5Qj!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F31cf156b-c68e-43ae-be7e-8f0b30485296_840x466.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!k5Qj!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F31cf156b-c68e-43ae-be7e-8f0b30485296_840x466.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!k5Qj!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F31cf156b-c68e-43ae-be7e-8f0b30485296_840x466.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Below is a quote from Eran describing how an understanding of the numbers gave Monday the confidence to continue to spend relatively heavily on performance marketing coming out of COVID (as others stepped off the gas). From a Sep-23 Goldman conference:</p><blockquote><p>Kasthuri Rangan (Analyst)</p><p><em>&#8220;You put up a really good performance, very strong quarters. What has been the reason that Monday has stood out in an ocean of calamity where people have had to lower guidance and cut down the growth rate, et cetera? Not only did you put up a good growth rate, but how dare you turn so profitable? Come on. How did you do it? What&#8217;s the secret sauce?&#8221;</em></p><p>Eran Zinman (Co-CEO)</p><p><em>&#8220;I think it&#8217;s a combination of a couple of things. One, I think one of the reasons Monday has been resilient in the economy right now is that we&#8217;re not heavily tech-focused. Only 30% of our customers are tech companies, 70% are non-tech. And we see a greater headwind in tech companies, and non-tech were less affected by the economy. So for me, it&#8217;s a lesson of diversity is very good. It creates stability within the business. And the fact we were serving both tech and non-tech is very helpful. Also many verticals. So it&#8217;s very stable, the customer base.</em></p><p><em>Number two, and I think that really stood out in this economy is our data-driven approach. We have Big Brain, which is our BI tool almost since day 1, and we always know what the ROI of every campaign. I think a lot of companies, during &#8216;21, &#8216;22 were just throwing money at performance marketing at, billboards, subway ads. And they don&#8217;t know exactly what&#8217;s the effect of everything they&#8217;ve been doing and how it&#8217;s contributing to revenue. And we always measure that. <strong>And that gave us a lot of confidence even now to keep spending, be aggressive because we saw the returns.</strong></em></p><p><em>I think the easiest thing to do once you want to become profitable is to cut performance marketing 100% because it&#8217;s an immediate effect. <strong>But we always felt it was a big mistake because you kind of sacrifice the future for that. And we kept being aggressive. We acquire customers now faster than ever before because we track everything.</strong>&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p><a href="https://pulselibrary.gainsight.com/video/how-monday-com-mastered-plg-to-drive-customer-experience/">This</a> is a nice talk about how Monday aligned around WAPP &#8212; weekly active paying people &#8212; as a core metric for the company. Monday seems to spend more time than most aligning on KPIs with which to judge performance. This gives management an ability to let teams operate more autonomously while still holding them accountable for their results.</p><p>Perhaps the most unique of Monday&#8217;s cultural tenets is its belief in extremely high transparency. Some examples:</p><ul><li><p>Big Brain access. Everyone in the company has full access to Big Brain, which includes KPIs across business functions as well as critical financial data like cash in the bank</p></li><li><p>Video archive. All major meetings are recorded and accessible by anyone at the company. Videos are even tagged and searchable</p></li><li><p>Board meetings. After Board meetings, management presents the full Board deck to the entire company</p></li><li><p>Weekly all hands</p></li></ul><p>Management was told by many that this level of transparency was a mistake, including by their investors. But management&#8217;s view was that (1) if they were employees of a company, they would want to know what was going on, and (2) when everyone knows what is happening in real time, the whole company can respond to issues quickly, decision making improves (more ideas bubble up, better dialogue, etc.), and the business is generally driven forward at a faster pace. </p><p>From a SaaStr Mar-21 interview:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;I remember the day that we made the decision. I think we were five or six people in the company and it was Roy and I talking about it and we said, <strong>&#8220;This is the company that we want to build, this is something that we deeply believe in.&#8221; And a lot of it came from our perspective that we worked in companies before and we knew how we wanted to be treated as part of those companies.</strong> I felt weird that I was managing people and I didn&#8217;t know if the company I was working for was successful or not. Are we doing well? Did we have a good quarter? And we said we want to build a different type of company where everybody knows everything. </em></p><p><em>And it did come with a few concerns. What if things don&#8217;t go well? What if people will see that we&#8217;re running out of cash? Our investors told us that it&#8217;s a huge mistake. What if our competitors will know our revenue numbers?</em></p><p><em>And whenever we thought about those questions we we always said to ourselves this is just fear. People talk out of fear. <strong>There&#8217;s so much to benefit from the fact that everybody knows everything. People feel trusted. People feel empowered&#8230;What we found is that when things don&#8217;t go well, instead of people being scared, they feel empowered and they&#8217;re even more motivated&#8230;</strong>I really feel it&#8217;s a huge part of our success as a company.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p><em>Glassdoor Analysis</em></p><p>Maybe the ideal company culture is one that is respectful, but that is also &#8220;tough.&#8221; Where employees work hard, and the bar is high, but they enjoy coming to work anyway. Where people feel they are doing their &#8220;life&#8217;s work.&#8221; </p><p>I heard Bill McDermott tell a story on a recent Acquired podcast about a team of 17 NYC-based door-to-door sales reps he led at Xerox early in his career. They were hard-charging (the goal was for all 17 to be &#8220;President&#8217;s Club&#8221; members) but Bill also tried to instill a tight-knit, family like culture where the team supported one another. From the sound of it, the group worked extremely hard, but enjoyed it and received high-quality coaching/mentorship from Bill. This is probably something like the ideal culture.</p><p>I do get the sense at Monday that the bar is high, that the pace is fast, but that employees are generally excited to come to work. These are cherry picked reviews, but they do convey something that &#8220;rhymes&#8221; with an ideal culture:</p><div class="image-gallery-embed" data-attrs="{&quot;gallery&quot;:{&quot;images&quot;:[{&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/79fc23dd-89f4-41c5-9cca-c1d08d0a636e_470x375.png&quot;},{&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/40422802-5923-4562-92dc-136957b83bf6_501x311.png&quot;},{&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/a364ad6c-751d-482f-a3f1-c027d35bf75c_528x341.png&quot;},{&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/4772386c-a3cf-4265-8553-81a9da696e46_439x266.png&quot;},{&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/33bb8ece-bc51-4c38-88a9-21dcb43944c1_487x363.png&quot;},{&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/4d65aa86-623f-4304-9851-8d18310e2940_473x279.png&quot;},{&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/66d26c1b-cf6b-437b-a680-e920c2e0c7d0_518x306.png&quot;},{&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/12b3a713-1efa-4cdd-a32d-5b4e12403eb7_466x432.png&quot;},{&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/2bc52f3b-aa61-4ae1-a012-7d00dd337bb9_494x393.png&quot;}],&quot;caption&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;alt&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;staticGalleryImage&quot;:{&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/ab14136b-d8a9-4a32-92b7-3d19406542ee_1456x1454.png&quot;}},&quot;isEditorNode&quot;:true}"></div><p>I can understand how a strong culture has been built. If you&#8217;re going to be expected to work hard, you should feel a strong sense of ownership, and also understand how you are impacting the business. By offering extremely high transparency and allowing small teams to work autonomously, you are doing just this. Employees feel as if they are having a tangible impact, and understand how their work fits into the greater vision. </p><p>Below is a chart of the last 100 reviews of Monday on Glassdoor and the number of times certain positive and negative attributes were mentioned.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OadV!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F117a0f1c-c402-47b0-82ff-5e112656fcdf_2078x1745.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OadV!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F117a0f1c-c402-47b0-82ff-5e112656fcdf_2078x1745.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OadV!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F117a0f1c-c402-47b0-82ff-5e112656fcdf_2078x1745.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OadV!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F117a0f1c-c402-47b0-82ff-5e112656fcdf_2078x1745.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OadV!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F117a0f1c-c402-47b0-82ff-5e112656fcdf_2078x1745.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OadV!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F117a0f1c-c402-47b0-82ff-5e112656fcdf_2078x1745.png" width="1456" height="1223" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/117a0f1c-c402-47b0-82ff-5e112656fcdf_2078x1745.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1223,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:198783,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F117a0f1c-c402-47b0-82ff-5e112656fcdf_2078x1745.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OadV!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F117a0f1c-c402-47b0-82ff-5e112656fcdf_2078x1745.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OadV!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F117a0f1c-c402-47b0-82ff-5e112656fcdf_2078x1745.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OadV!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F117a0f1c-c402-47b0-82ff-5e112656fcdf_2078x1745.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OadV!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F117a0f1c-c402-47b0-82ff-5e112656fcdf_2078x1745.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>As we can see, the most common attributes mentioned included a &#8220;strong culture,&#8221; long hours, a high bar, a fast-paced environment, and a great product (in that order).</p><p>Here&#8217;s another breadcrumb from X. This chart shows a very positive sales culture at Monday despite a below average work-life balance, making Monday a clear outlier amongst the peer group. </p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!lUH_!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3277c7e7-922a-4037-886b-8364ed6e14f4_534x596.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!lUH_!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3277c7e7-922a-4037-886b-8364ed6e14f4_534x596.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!lUH_!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3277c7e7-922a-4037-886b-8364ed6e14f4_534x596.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!lUH_!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3277c7e7-922a-4037-886b-8364ed6e14f4_534x596.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!lUH_!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3277c7e7-922a-4037-886b-8364ed6e14f4_534x596.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!lUH_!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3277c7e7-922a-4037-886b-8364ed6e14f4_534x596.png" width="534" height="596" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/3277c7e7-922a-4037-886b-8364ed6e14f4_534x596.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:596,&quot;width&quot;:534,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:142588,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3277c7e7-922a-4037-886b-8364ed6e14f4_534x596.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!lUH_!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3277c7e7-922a-4037-886b-8364ed6e14f4_534x596.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!lUH_!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3277c7e7-922a-4037-886b-8364ed6e14f4_534x596.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!lUH_!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3277c7e7-922a-4037-886b-8364ed6e14f4_534x596.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!lUH_!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3277c7e7-922a-4037-886b-8364ed6e14f4_534x596.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p><em>Fiscal Discipline</em></p><p>Studying Monday, it&#8217;s pretty clear that management has a healthy focus on efficiency and are thoughtful about growth/profitability trade-offs. </p><p>Monday had issues raising money early on. From a Sep-23 SaaStr interview:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;So when we started the company, you know back then in 2014, there wasn&#8217;t a lot of money that you could raise in a startup. Maybe similar to today. I think our first round we raised 1.4 million on 2 million pre, okay. 1.4 million for 30% of the company. That was our seed round. <strong>So money wasn&#8217;t in abundance. We had to measure everything. We had to track everything. And it stuck with us</strong>.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>Perhaps as a result Monday has always run a pretty tight ship. While they&#8217;ve placed a strong emphasis on growth, they&#8217;ve always sought to be as efficient as possible with their capital. From the same interview:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;I think there&#8217;s something a bit misleading in how we measure SaaS companies. And if you take one thing from this session, this will be it. All the metrics that you&#8217;re using &#8212; LTV to CAC, CAC return rate &#8212; all of them don&#8217;t take cash into account. Okay? It&#8217;s not cash. ARR is not cash. CAC is not cash. LTV, well I don&#8217;t know what it is &#8212; it&#8217;s a bogus metric. But that&#8217;s definitely not cash.</em></p><p><em>So the point is nobody measure cash. What is measuring cash? I want to explain. When we started the company, what we were religious about was to see the cash return. So we would spend money as I mentioned on Facebook and YouTube and Google. <strong>So we would measure when the cash left the bank. Literally left the bank, that&#8217;s when we marked it. And then we measured when the cash came back into the bank, okay?</strong> From those customers. </em></p><p><em>So we would buy a cohort of customers and we see when the money goes back into the company. Now imagine that you have 5 million in a bank, 7 million in the bank. One way to to think about it is I can spend 5 million on performance marketing. This is not what we&#8217;ve done. When we had 5 million in a bank, we spent 25 million in performance marketing. Now how do you do that? Because we recycle the money super quickly. We would spend let&#8217;s say 300k on performance marketing and then after one month we saw 50% back from that campaign. So 150 back okay and then we saw 70% after 3 months and five months. We tracked every penny how much when it goes out and when it comes in.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>Something Monday has smartly done from the beginning is to use its GTM efficiency and cash generation as a barometer for PMF. If say GTM efficiency were to wane, their first instinct is not to spend more, but rather that something has gone wrong (and needs to be corrected) with the product or the GTM motion. From a May-22 JPM conference:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;So like if you look at the history of the company, for every $1 we burned, we generated $4 of recurring revenue, more than $4. So we&#8217;re super efficient, we always were, even from the beginning. And we really care about the returns.</em></p><p><em>And we believe in that for two reasons. One, it&#8217;s always good to be efficient with cash. And the other, I think, it&#8217;s like it makes us improve the right things. <strong>Other than throwing more money at it, we improve the funnel, we improve the product, we improve the customer experience, and we&#8217;ve always done that.</strong> So for us, when we scale marketing and when we see that we are able to scale more and this first -- in the first quarter, we saw we can spend more.</em></p><p><em>And pretty much every year, if you look at the company from its inception, like Q1, we ramped up and addressed more customers. So we want to see the same rate of return on cash. And so when we do that, we improve the product and the funnel and our addressability rather than just like increase gross margins and like spend more on something that works less well.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>Coming out of 2023, Monday ramped hiring to add sales capacity (new products, upmarket) and to develop a suite of AI products. Now that these teams are more resourced, Monday is tapering the pace of hiring.</p><p>Overall, I think it&#8217;s a company that can be trusted to maintain efficiency and spend dollars wisely.</p><p><em>Ownership</em></p><p>Here is current ownership by insiders and majors shareholders:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!8eyG!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1a4e1a88-ce83-41bb-827b-9def8ab4d9ae_2095x1133.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!8eyG!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1a4e1a88-ce83-41bb-827b-9def8ab4d9ae_2095x1133.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!8eyG!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1a4e1a88-ce83-41bb-827b-9def8ab4d9ae_2095x1133.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!8eyG!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1a4e1a88-ce83-41bb-827b-9def8ab4d9ae_2095x1133.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!8eyG!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1a4e1a88-ce83-41bb-827b-9def8ab4d9ae_2095x1133.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!8eyG!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1a4e1a88-ce83-41bb-827b-9def8ab4d9ae_2095x1133.png" width="1456" height="787" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/1a4e1a88-ce83-41bb-827b-9def8ab4d9ae_2095x1133.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:787,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:141718,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1a4e1a88-ce83-41bb-827b-9def8ab4d9ae_2095x1133.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!8eyG!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1a4e1a88-ce83-41bb-827b-9def8ab4d9ae_2095x1133.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!8eyG!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1a4e1a88-ce83-41bb-827b-9def8ab4d9ae_2095x1133.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!8eyG!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1a4e1a88-ce83-41bb-827b-9def8ab4d9ae_2095x1133.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!8eyG!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1a4e1a88-ce83-41bb-827b-9def8ab4d9ae_2095x1133.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Here is ownership over time since the IPO:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!zyGh!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4e5ea067-71b6-403c-92b9-20e42b5d1bca_2343x1133.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!zyGh!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4e5ea067-71b6-403c-92b9-20e42b5d1bca_2343x1133.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!zyGh!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4e5ea067-71b6-403c-92b9-20e42b5d1bca_2343x1133.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!zyGh!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4e5ea067-71b6-403c-92b9-20e42b5d1bca_2343x1133.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!zyGh!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4e5ea067-71b6-403c-92b9-20e42b5d1bca_2343x1133.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!zyGh!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4e5ea067-71b6-403c-92b9-20e42b5d1bca_2343x1133.png" width="1456" height="704" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/4e5ea067-71b6-403c-92b9-20e42b5d1bca_2343x1133.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:704,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:172190,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4e5ea067-71b6-403c-92b9-20e42b5d1bca_2343x1133.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!zyGh!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4e5ea067-71b6-403c-92b9-20e42b5d1bca_2343x1133.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!zyGh!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4e5ea067-71b6-403c-92b9-20e42b5d1bca_2343x1133.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!zyGh!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4e5ea067-71b6-403c-92b9-20e42b5d1bca_2343x1133.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!zyGh!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4e5ea067-71b6-403c-92b9-20e42b5d1bca_2343x1133.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Stripes exited their position sometime in 2022. Insight Partners exited their position sometime in 2023. Sonnipe has continued to mostly hold. So have Roy and Eran.</p><p><em>Management Compensation</em></p><p>Below is 2024 compensation for the management team.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!q1GZ!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd4099d7c-e10a-4400-8732-c6ea708e25c0_1956x533.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!q1GZ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd4099d7c-e10a-4400-8732-c6ea708e25c0_1956x533.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!q1GZ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd4099d7c-e10a-4400-8732-c6ea708e25c0_1956x533.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!q1GZ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd4099d7c-e10a-4400-8732-c6ea708e25c0_1956x533.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!q1GZ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd4099d7c-e10a-4400-8732-c6ea708e25c0_1956x533.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!q1GZ!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd4099d7c-e10a-4400-8732-c6ea708e25c0_1956x533.png" width="1456" height="397" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/d4099d7c-e10a-4400-8732-c6ea708e25c0_1956x533.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:397,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:71817,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/170396696?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd4099d7c-e10a-4400-8732-c6ea708e25c0_1956x533.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!q1GZ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd4099d7c-e10a-4400-8732-c6ea708e25c0_1956x533.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!q1GZ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd4099d7c-e10a-4400-8732-c6ea708e25c0_1956x533.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!q1GZ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd4099d7c-e10a-4400-8732-c6ea708e25c0_1956x533.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!q1GZ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd4099d7c-e10a-4400-8732-c6ea708e25c0_1956x533.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Note that the &#8220;equity-based comp&#8221; is the value of the RSUs that are vesting in 2024 for each individual.</p><p><em>Capital Allocation </em></p><p>Monday hasn&#8217;t done much yet with its cash other than funding organic growth and letting it accumulate, which I don&#8217;t mind at all.</p><p>While they&#8217;ve hinted at making acquisitions, they haven&#8217;t made any yet which is fine by me. I worry a bit about potentially destructive M&amp;A, but they haven&#8217;t done this yet, so you can&#8217;t really ding them for it. Commentary from their Sep-25 Investor Day suggests that if they were to do M&amp;A, it would very likely be acqui-hires/small tuck-ins with a focus on new features/capabilities and keeping in mind buy/build trade-offs:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;With regards to M&amp;A&#8230;this is one of the main capital allocation purposes that we have in Monday. We&#8217;re actively looking. We have a manager, a project manager in London that is actively looking for companies. The companies that we are -- or the target companies that we are focusing on are the ones that can accelerate our road map.</em></p><p><em>So if there are feature functionalities that can complete our CRM offering, definitely, we would like to acquire these companies, workflows. If there are companies that can provide features even in AI in the world of Service, in the world of CRM -- we do want to make sure that we buy them. It&#8217;s going to be tuck-in mostly acqui-hiring. We&#8217;re not thinking about acquiring revenue or customers, which is the hundreds of millions or it&#8217;s $1 billion and above.</em></p><p><em>&#8230;I do want to say also that when it comes to M&amp;A, we don&#8217;t want to defocus our trajectory. And many companies like us in the growth stage, as you have seen, we have a lot of things that we are doing. So when it comes to build versus buy, we do acknowledge the fact that buy is important, but we do want to build a lot of things and make sure we are focused on them.</em>&#8221;</p></blockquote><p>A well executed M&amp;A strategy could pay nice dividends for Monday. Acquisitions could help Monday fill out its product suite, and as Monday develops increasingly strong &#8220;distribution,&#8221; this can enhance Monday&#8217;s ability to earn a return on acquisitions (i.e. Monday can acquire a smaller product and cross sell it to its large customer base).</p><p>While Monday hasn&#8217;t repurchased any shares to this point, they did announce their first-ever stock buyback authorization of $870mm in Sep-25. It will be interesting to see how aggressive they get with repurchases given the weakness in the stock (the company was able to begin repurchasing on Nov 12th). </p><p><em>Other Interesting Nuggets from Management</em></p><ul><li><p>Strategic importance of SMB<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-35" href="#footnote-35" target="_self">35</a></p></li><li><p>Breaking things as you scale<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-36" href="#footnote-36" target="_self">36</a></p></li></ul><div><hr></div><h2>Conclusion</h2><p>If I had to pick, I&#8217;d be a buyer of Monday at these levels. </p><p>Monday seems to have a fundamental advantage (the flexibility of its platform) that is very real and well-suited for the AI era. While its products may not be for everyone, within an absolutely massive TAM, they are a great choice for many. I also think Monday will ultimately do a nice job with AI. If Monday can put all the pieces together, it will have a very powerful platform. Imagine the stickiness of customers that use Monday to its full capabilities (WM + CRM + Service, custom apps, automated workflows acting as digital connective tissue, a host of customized agents layered throughout)? Customers simply wouldn&#8217;t be able to rip Monday out &#8212; rather, it&#8217;s presence would only continue to spread.</p><p>The market is in the midst of capitulating on the stock, putting Monday at a ~15x fwd FCF multiple &#8212; pretty rare for a SaaS business growing 20%+, and especially for one that has shown little sign of being an unhealthy business to date. Management is adamant that ~20% growth will continue for at least the next two years, implying a 3.5x multiple on 2027 revenue. A 3.5x multiple, on an LTM basis, would be tied for the lowest ever multiple in my M&amp;A comp set spanning almost 50 SaaS acquisitions (and where the median LTM multiple is 8.3x).</p><p>Despite the positives however, the rise of AI introduces significant uncertainty for Monday &#8212; both competitively and to the business model. It puts Monday in the crosshairs of Google, Microsoft and OpenAI &#8212; so I get the concern. The sensible move might be relegating it to the &#8220;too hard&#8221; pile, at least for now. </p><p>In any event, it&#8217;s one I look forward to tracking. If Monday shows significant traction with its agent platform and/or continued strong signals from CRM and Service, those would be great signs.</p><div><hr></div><h2>Important Disclaimer</h2><p>This post is intended for informational purposes only and you, the reader, should not make any financial, investment, or trading decisions based upon the author&#8217;s commentary.</p><p>Although the information set forth above has been obtained or derived from sources believed to be reliable, the author does not make any representation or warranty, express or implied, as to the information&#8217;s accuracy or completeness, nor does the author recommend that the above information serve as the basis of any investment decision.</p><p>Before investing in a security, readers should carefully consider their financial positions and risk tolerances to determine if such a stock selection is appropriate. At any time, the author may trade in or out of any securities that are mentioned in the report as long or short positions in his portfolio without disclosing this information.</p><p>This report&#8217;s estimated fundamental value only represents a best efforts estimate of the potential fundamental valuation of a specific security, and is not expressed as, or implied as, assessments of the quality of a security or an actionable investment strategy for an investor.</p><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-1" href="#footnote-anchor-1" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">1</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>Kasthuri Rangan (Analyst)</p><p>&#8220;I had a question. If we step back for a second, what Monday is basically, a workflow automation platform that allows you to build applications? How different is it from ServiceNow which also has a workflow automation platform but different set of use cases, ITSM, HR, CSM? Should we think about you guys as being complementary because they are heavy duty, big enterprise workflow and you&#8217;re more simpler workflow. Is that a good analogy?&#8221;</p><p>Eran Zinman (Co-Founder, Co-CEO)</p><p>&#8220;Yes, I think to some extent it is because I think what ServiceNow has done -- and you&#8217;re right, I mean they&#8217;re very enterprise-focused, very top down sales. So in terms of go to market, we&#8217;re very different. We&#8217;re very product-led growth. But in terms of the fact that what they&#8217;ve done well is they&#8217;ve built a very powerful platform engine. And on top of that they packaged products and it just went after many verticals.</p><p>And I think to a large extent Monday, we&#8217;ve done the same thing. We built a very powerful engine and built products on top of that. <strong>There&#8217;s the main difference, which is with ServiceNow, in order to customize it, you still need that professional IT to do it for you. Monday user interface is very accessible, very intuitive and you can do it yourself.</strong></p><p><strong>So I think for us I see our opportunity to build a business that&#8217;s very efficient, very scalable. And when I kind of look at what I feel is our competition and the companies we look after are company that built true platform and products on top of it, which I think falls under the category of Atlassian, ServiceNow, Salesforce to some extent.</strong></p><p>I think a lot of investor talks still kind of connects us to Asana and Smartsheet, but that changed. Over the last 6 months, the more I talk with investors, they are thinking about, like you said, ServiceNow, the Atlassians, the Salesforce and this is how we see ourselves. And I feel this is our potential.</p><p>And if we can scale that to the enterprise and capture that and the SMB market and go after more product verticals, I think it&#8217;s one of the biggest opportunities in the software market today. And we&#8217;re built like this from day 1. So that&#8217;s part of the reason why we&#8217;re so excited and so focused on execution because we feel like there&#8217;s so much opportunity we can capture.&#8221; <em>&#8212; Goldman Conference (Sep-23)</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-2" href="#footnote-anchor-2" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">2</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>Brent Thill (Analyst)</p><p>&#8220;It's been quite the ride since the launch of the IPO. Maybe bring us up to speed for those that don't know the story as well, a little bit about your story in Monday and your value proposition to clients.&#8221;</p><p>Eran Zinman (Co-Founder, Co-CEO)</p><p>&#8220;Sure. So first of all, thanks for having me, Brent. So a little bit of background about myself and Roy, my partner. So we started monday back in 2012, beginning of 2013. We kind of have a similar personal background.</p><p>We were both software developers from very young age. But I would say what we're mostly passionate about is to build products that people love and enjoy using. And we both had started off prior to Monday and worked in various tech companies. And throughout our careers, we used a lot of software to manage our work, manage teams, anywhere from finances to R&amp;D teams and marketing teams. <strong>And the idea for Monday or the need came from the fact that we used all that different software and we always felt like something was missing because all software essentially is very, what we call, now rigid.</strong></p><p>It means that it's built for a very specific purpose. And if you want to change something, for example, the type of data that you capture, a process that might be different in your company as opposed to the way that the software specifically was built for, you were unable to do so. But being the developers that both Roy and I have been since day 1, we knew that it's very easy to change and we can customize the software that we use. And <strong>the idea for Monday was to give that same power that was only reserved to developers to everybody.</strong> And everybody -- when we say everybody, we actually mean literally everybody within the organization.</p><p>So the concept behind Monday, which we call a Work OS, a work operating system, is essentially allow companies to work the way they want and build their own project management, for example, their own sales and CRM management, their own HR platform and so on. We offer all those buildings blocks, which you can build into whatever solution that's applicable to you. So that's in a nutshell the idea behind it.&#8221; <em>&#8212; Jefferies Conference (Sep-21)</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-3" href="#footnote-anchor-3" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">3</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>Brent Thill (Analyst)</p><p>&#8220;One of the biggest questions we've been getting from investors is there are a lot of companies that sound similar, right? Smartsheet, Asana, even Atlassian with one of their solutions. Can you help crystallize where you see your position relative to others? And I think the other thing that's been interesting in the due diligence is a lot of customers are using multiple technologies right now. They may start with Monday, but then they may actually do the work in Smartsheet.</p><p>So do you believe there's a coexistence of these technologies over time that could live in one enterprise? Or do you believe that you kind of have to own the category and be the only standard inside the company? How do you view that?&#8221;</p><p>Eran Zinman (Co-Founder, Co-CEO)</p><p>&#8220;Yes, it's a great question. So first of all, you mentioned Asana and Smartsheet. Those are 2 companies I personally really appreciate. But those companies are -- their purpose is project management. So they're focused on one aspect of work, which is managing projects, the way they are built, the way they're structured when you start a new project in Asana, you have a project, project has tasks.</p><p>And you can't manage, for example, a sales team within Asana, like you can maybe manage projects of that sales team, but you can't manage the actual deals and contacts. You can't manage inventory or HR because it's a project management tool. Same goes for Smartsheet. <strong>With Monday with our low-code, no-code nature, we're actually a platform where you can shape the board to manage any part of your business. So the value proposition that we offer to our customers is much broader than that.</strong></p><p>I feel there might be some comparison because project management is one of the key ways we kind of do our go-to-market. People search for project related tools. And this is one of the ways that we capture new leads. But the way customers use Monday over time once they adopt the product is very different compared to Asana and Smartsheet. And our goal going forward and within enterprise customers today is not to replace older software. Our philosophy is to coexist. This is why we invest so much in our integration. We actually have an integration with Asana. We have an integration with Jira. So if you have one team working with Asana or Jira, we'll do the best integration and connect that data back into Monday.</p><p>Essentially, what we want to be is to be the backbone of the organization, that Work OS, that runs into our organization and to allow other people within the organization to use other tools, if they like.&#8221; <em>&#8212; Jefferies Conference (Sep-21)</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-4" href="#footnote-anchor-4" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">4</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>Brent Thill (Analyst)</p><p>&#8220;I've used the product and I think anyone that's kind of touched it and felt the solution realizes how easy it is. Why did it take so long for someone to create this? What do you think -- what did you guys see or what was the kind of enabler for you because the way I've used it effectively, I mean, it's literally no code, right? You go and you can customize everything. You don't have to be a developer. Cynthia in accounting or Bill in -- at the front desk could use it at a hotel. Anyone can use it. But why did it take so long for this to be cracked?&#8221;</p><p>Eran Zinman (Co-CEO, Co-Founder)</p><p>&#8220;I think that the beauty here is in the details because it's very easy to make such a software to be complex. And we invested so much into the user experience. <strong>And one of the concepts that we really put a lot of thought into was to help our customers go through a gradual discovery process</strong>. I think one of the problems with software today, especially software that's aimed for a larger organization, is that once you onboard, you are overwhelmed by the amount of features, options, capabilities, ways you can customize the software. It just feels like rocket science.</p><p>And with Monday, the beauty here is that from the first minute, and this is what we aim for, you get value. You're not -- maybe you're not familiar with everything Monday can do for you, <strong>but you get value from the first minute. And over time, you discover more functionality, more depth, more things that you can do with the software and this is on purpose.</strong> And we want this to be more of a journey than to know everything from day 1. And I think that's one of the reasons why people feel it's very intuitive. They feel like it's a learning process and they become professional very quickly. It's kind of like a game, if you like.&#8221; &#8212; <em>Jefferies Conference (Sep-21)</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-5" href="#footnote-anchor-5" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">5</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>Roy Mann (Co-Founder, Co-CEO)</p><p>&#8220;Yes, it's Roy. So I would still say we're like 50% greenfield in CRM. It's a largely growing segment, okay, and we're mostly growing, I think, in accounts in the SMB space. But we're going upmarket into the mid-market as well.</p><p>And yes, on 50%, we do see other CRMs which we compete against. And what the -- I think what makes us succeed and be in a really good sweet spot is, on one hand, our customizability and the fact that <strong>we're really good at creating any workflow you want around CRM, obviously, if you have projects involved as well in the sales process or after that. So that's where we shine. And CRMs, in general, needs a lot of customization. That's what customers really want.</strong></p><p>And on the other hand, we're seeing great success in the performance marketing side. So we're able to capture a large -- like a great deal of the market demand.&#8221; <em>&#8212; Q2&#8217;24 earnings</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-6" href="#footnote-anchor-6" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">6</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>Robert McCooey (Analyst)</p><p>&#8220;So you touched on this already, but kind of -- it seems like there's different target customers and also with different competitors that are involved. At the end of the day, why would someone choose Monday versus one of these other competitors and especially in some of the most competitive markets, I'm assume the U.S. is a fairly competitive market versus some of the established players like CRM, for example, why would someone choose you?&#8221;</p><p>Roy Mann (Co-Founder, Co-CEO)</p><p>&#8220;Yes. So I think each product is different. And like also something to note is that a lot of our customers come from a greenfield market, like they digitize, they come from nothing. A lot of the deals, they just want to make sense of their organization and they come to us. But in CRM, obviously, a very competitive market.</p><p>So a good example would be that -- we started CRM and within 6 months, we went from 0 to being the top 4 in G2 Crowd in the review site, and there are hundreds of CRMs there.</p><p>And the reason because of the power of the platform that like -- and in CRM specifically, like <strong>we see a huge gap, like if you either have like rigid small CRMs and the large ones like Salesforce, where you can customize them, but it costs a lot and there is an implementation cost as well. And we're kind of like solving that problem in the middle. It's still very easy, very simple, but you can do anything you want. We brought something new to the -- like a trade-off. There is no trade-off.</strong></p><p>But we're obviously &#8212; it&#8217;s not our strategy is not to compete with enterprises and stuff like CRM is still like, let's say, a younger product, and it has a road map to go up and up to larger audiences.&#8221; <em>&#8212; NASDAQ Conference (Dec-24)</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-7" href="#footnote-anchor-7" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">7</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;One important thing is that we're showing the number of its accounts and not customer is a little bit different than other metrics, with your customers. And yes, it's scaling really fast compared to like how Monday scale in the beginning. It's like 5x as fast as Monday itself scaled when we started. That's why we're excited about it.</p><p>For us, the most important thing to emphasize is that the CRM is a thin layer of software built on top of the platform itself. And what we used to see when people signed up for project management, they said, &#8216;<strong>oh, this is the great project management tool. I can build whatever I want. I can do this and connect it and have other stuff connected to it and it's like super powerful project management.&#8217; Now they're saying the same thing about the CRM.</strong></p><p>But what they're saying essentially is that like the platform is what makes it so great. And when we look at the competitive landscape, what we see is 2 things. One is that CRM is a great market for digitization. A lot of like companies, when they go digital, it starts there, like managing their customers' relationship. And so we see it as a greenfield as well and a lot of scale on that front.</p><p>Another big part of the scale is companies maturing from other CRMs. And I don't know if you've got a chance to see the G2 Cloud CRM competitive landscape, it's tiled with like 100 CRMs. And <strong>we're like on the top 4 -- top 3 on the top right, and we got there like super fast like within 6 months.</strong> And the reason is a lot of companies maturing from other, let's say, rigid -- more rigid CRMs that are built in a certain way, and you can't really change it and do whatever you want with them, <strong>when they graduate, they now have us as an alternative that is like very simple, easy to adopt.</strong> And those are great customers. They know what they want. They're maturing, they're doing that because they're successful. So that's like very -- that's exciting in this space, specifically.&#8221; &#8212; <em>JP Morgan Conference (May-23)</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-8" href="#footnote-anchor-8" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">8</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;Each vertical has a different price point. For example, CRM software usually have a higher price point compared to work management. So actually, with CRM potentially will increase the price in the future, kind of to compete in the same ballpark of other products in that market. <strong>And when it comes to Dev, actually, Jira have a lower price point compared to what we currently offer with Monday Dev. So there, we feel we need to be kind of on the same price point compared to Jira in order to be competitive in that market.</strong> So that&#8217;s why we&#8217;re trying to have like different price points in each one of those verticals, just to be competitive to other players in that vertical.&#8221; &#8212; <em>JP Morgan Conference (May-24)</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-9" href="#footnote-anchor-9" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">9</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;So first, it's very early for Monday Dev. But this quarter, we announced it's out of beta. For us, it symbolizes that we have like the initial product market fit and enough value to say that we feel that it's a good solution for different teams that does software development. </p><p>I think that indeed, in terms of the competition, it's mainly Jira. And what we get is an initial feedback, which we found very encouraging is that, first of all, people really enjoy using the product. I think that this is something that is really important for us across all of our products. But I think that specifically for Dev, it's something that could be very meaningful. </p><p>And another important thing is that I think that also in terms of software development, the world has progressed. <strong>And now it's not about just engineers. It's also about the product teams, and it's also about the designers and the data practitioners and so on. And one of the best feedback that we are getting is that with Monday Dev, they can connect the work between everyone that are working on the projects, including also the client-facing teams.</strong> So support, for instance, getting feedback from tickets and it can be with the sales and the marketing. So it's definitely 2 main values that we see repeating in customers' feedback.&#8221; <em>&#8212; JP Morgan Conference (May-23)</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-10" href="#footnote-anchor-10" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">10</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>Client</p><p>&#8220;What about Service? That's early. Would you say that's been seeing similar success to CRM in CRM's early days or is it different?&#8221;</p><p>Expert</p><p>&#8220;If we talk globally, it's actually growing quicker than CRM did in its early days. It's also getting a lot more enterprise tier than Monday CRM did in the beginning. It is a very interesting and lucrative product.</p><p><strong>There are still a lot of feature gaps if we compare it to Zendesk, Freshworks, ServiceNow, but all of those major feature disparities, they are within the short-term roadmap.</strong> A lot of the companies that are buying in on it now are buying in on it knowing what's on the roadmap, and they're probably already using at least one other Monday product.</p><p>You don't have people buying Monday Service that is not a current Monday client. That's not happening.&#8221; </p><p><em>&#8212; Tegus, Omnitas Consulting (Jul-25)</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-11" href="#footnote-anchor-11" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">11</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>https://www.saastr.com/great-learnings-from-co-ceos-and-founders-of-monday-com/</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-12" href="#footnote-anchor-12" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">12</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;Yes. So we actually built our sales team about 2.5, 3 years ago. Initially, Monday was built with a no-touch motion. People would sign up, onboard their people, and start using it without speaking with anybody. And then we saw customers organically scale from, let&#8217;s say, 5, 10 people to 100, 200 and then they hit a wall.</p><p><strong>And that&#8217;s kind of motivated us to build the sales team because maybe there&#8217;s somebody to help them scale past that point. It&#8217;s been a huge success.</strong> It&#8217;s a key part of our growth and future growth going forward. It&#8217;s one of the parts of the business that we heavily invest in, both in terms of product and building our sales and partners team. <strong>But one thing that was very important for us, and I feel it&#8217;s very healthy, is that we always wanted the adoption to be bottoms up.</strong></p><p>I think one of the problems we suffer today that top-down decision-making process where a C-level executive makes a decision to use software, forces everybody in the organization to use it, and <strong>you end up having this what we call shelf-ware, a software that nobody actually is using within the organization. So we wanted from day 1 the adoption to be real.</strong> We want people to enjoy using the product. So that&#8217;s why we kind of aim to have a bottom-up adoption pattern where people actually use it and then it spreads organically. And the sales team is like the sugar on top.</p><p>We help you scale past that point. But once we kind of reach out with the sales team, you have so many champions in the organizations. It&#8217;s a pretty easy sales process from that point on.&#8221; <em>&#8212; Jefferies Conference (Sep-21)</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-13" href="#footnote-anchor-13" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">13</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;So in terms of our go-to-market for those new products. So definitely, we see here a huge opportunity, mainly because those products allow us to market to specific audiences, and specific customers. So we can have more targeted marketing to those audiences as opposed to having like more of a broader broadcast to a mass audience when we talk about the Work OS.</p><p><strong>Having those independent products will allow us to have more specific targeting</strong>, <strong>resulting in what we already seen early signs of lower customer acquisition costs</strong> and better adoption in terms of acquiring new customers.</p><p>Over time, and this is the big opportunity here, we can -- we already see that as well. We see those customers expanding from that specific use case to start with. To more use cases and eventually as part of our vision of the company to have the whole company working on the Work OS platform.</p><p>So this is part of the reason why we&#8217;re so excited about those new products, not only that it allows us to have a more efficient go-to-market, but better onboarding and more potential to expand within an organization.&#8221; &#8212; <em>Q1&#8217;22 earnings</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-14" href="#footnote-anchor-14" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">14</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;So regarding the new products, our product ecosystem and how it helps in terms of our go-to-market, so definitely having multiple personas and multiple verticals really helps in 2 ways, really. <strong>One is our ability to do both performance marketing across multiple verticals, just make our acquisition much more efficient.</strong> And this goes all the way to events and exhibitions and we have different, basically personas that can buy the software.</p><p><strong>But more than that, it allows us to be more aggressive because our LTV for each customer is much greater.</strong> We don&#8217;t just compete in 1 vertical, but a customer might start with a CRM and then expand into work management or vice versa. So the total LTV of each customer is much greater, which allow us to be potentially more aggressive going forward in how we acquire customers. So it definitely opens up our ability to acquire customers and expand them over time.&#8221; &#8212; <em>Q3&#8217;23 earnings</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-15" href="#footnote-anchor-15" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">15</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;So we already said that we expect head count growth to be this year in fiscal year '25 around 30%. And it's actually going to start -- <strong>the growth in head count is going to start to decelerate in H2, going into next year,</strong> I think we said it last year and we said at the beginning of this year, we have huge opportunities, the market is great. We have multiple products. We want to make sure that we capture the opportunity. Therefore, we invested in product, in R&amp;D and in sales and marketing. <strong>We believe by the end of the year, we will have the right resources going into the next few years.</strong> So we expect it to be more moderate and capture the opportunity -- the huge opportunity that we have in front of us going into '26 and beyond.&#8221; <em>&#8212; Q2&#8217;25 earnings</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-16" href="#footnote-anchor-16" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">16</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;So definitely, we highlighted the CRM because they have the most momentum, but also the 2 other products also have great momentum that we&#8217;re seeing&#8230;And just to your comment about the G2 rating, I think this shows exactly our strategy. Because those products have built on top of the Work OS platform, they already pretty mature to offer a lot of advanced features, and we&#8217;re able to compete in each 1 of those markets and achieve high rating within customers, which is perfectly what we expected and a big part of our strategy as we build those products.&#8221; <em>&#8212; Q4&#8217;22 Earnings</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-17" href="#footnote-anchor-17" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">17</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;The other part is obviously, the product itself and the fact that we are built as an infrastructure that allows us to move really quickly. So again, the product is a good example &#8212; I would say <strong>more than 90% of all the 4 products we've built is the Work OS itself. Like, we didn't have to build that.</strong> We have a great mobile. We have the great platform. We have everything underneath in terms of capabilities, and we needed to just package that on top and provide so much more value to customers easily.&#8221; <em>&#8212; JP Morgan Conference (May-22)</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-18" href="#footnote-anchor-18" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">18</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;You saw earlier the graph of the acceleration and momentum in CRM and Dev. It&#8217;s many -- like the ways behind it, a lot is the fact that they get the value both of the platform and the specific features that we add. It makes execution very efficient and fast. And just as an anecdote, <strong>we started Monday sales CRM for the first version we needed 4 developers, mainly because all they had to do is specific features for CRM.</strong> And of course, the team grew a lot but this was the first version, and same goes for Dev.&#8221; &#8212; <em>Investor Day &#8216;23</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-19" href="#footnote-anchor-19" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">19</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>Josh Baer (Analyst)</p><p>&#8220;So I mentioned CRM a couple of times. So I wanted to ask about Monday Sales CRM, I think relatively new. What can you tell us about adoption? What type of accounts are you targeting with Monday Sales CRM?&#8221;</p><p>Roy Mann (Co-Founder, Co-CEO)</p><p>&#8220;Yes. So I&#8217;m glad you asked. So it&#8217;s a new product, and we -- essentially, the way it&#8217;s built is that we packaged the WorkOS platform as a CRM. So people used us in this use case for a while. And then we saw it and just like package it as a whole product, we have a dedicated team working on it, and they&#8217;re going to market with a CRM.</p><p><strong>And within a year, we&#8217;ve been able, less than a year, we&#8217;ve been able to be like one of the top 3, I think, in G2 Crowd, which was amazing. I didn&#8217;t expect it. And the reason is because like we are better than almost all of those like massive smaller or like midsized CRM because we&#8217;re more flexible.</strong> <strong>You can do whatever you want with us, people see it, and that&#8217;s what they want.</strong> So a lot of them graduate from all those other tools, and they have very few options.</p><p>It&#8217;s like the top 3 and a lot of them choose us. <strong>And I think we&#8217;re in a vacuum price point and easy to use, like the fact you don&#8217;t need like a massive adoption of a team like an implementation cost and a lot of those things.</strong> And on the other hand, CRM is a huge segment that is greenfield, like so it&#8217;s -- I don&#8217;t know if it&#8217;s half and half of those types of customers, but it&#8217;s like certainly, we see both, like people graduating for other CRM software and like it&#8217;s still growing a lot because of digitization and a lot of companies are digitizing and that&#8217;s like a huge segment where you want a digital.&#8221;</p><p>Eliran Glazer (CFO)</p><p>&#8220;Just to add on that. So we really see, I think, that <strong>the best feedback that we get on Monday CRM is that it&#8217;s not about the features, it&#8217;s about the nature of the solution, which is highly flexible and people love it and feel that this is really something that goes with them and with their use cases.</strong> And it also allows something which is really unique is that it&#8217;s also not about only the deals and the sales process itself, but also things that our post sales and, suddenly, you see other departments connecting to the Monday sales solution like legal and many others. And I think this, combining with the collaboration features within the platform helps to make this solution very unique.&#8221; <em>&#8212; Morgan Stanley Conference (Mar-23)</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-20" href="#footnote-anchor-20" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">20</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>Eran Zinman (Co-Founder, Co-CEO)</p><p>&#8220;Yes. Thanks. I can take the first question. So you asked about the fact we enter in the ITSM segment of the market, and there&#8217;s other players in that market like ServiceNow. Same goes for CRM, Salesforce and other main players.</p><p>And I think this is our play as Monday. <strong>We&#8217;re not afraid to enter what a lot of people refer to as saturated markets, markets that have a clear leader.</strong> Because if you think about it, those 2 examples that you mentioned, both ServiceNow and Salesforce are platform companies that build a platform. And we have a best-in-class platform like those other companies have.</p><p><strong>But we have a huge advantage because of the way we built it, because it is the fact all the things we mentioned throughout our presentation about the fact that the user can have their own control, they don&#8217;t need to pay for that.</strong> The fact that it&#8217;s part of the user interface. <strong>So I feel that we as a company approach those markets with a huge benefit and the customers see it. The fact that in such a short time, we managed to reach such a successful growth, both in CRM and Dev. And I think it will be the same case with Service because we have confidence seeing our current customer base use it extensively.</strong></p><p>So I think that will give us a lot of confidence that we&#8217;ll be able to not only succeed but also scale and offer best-in-class products in each one of those categories.&#8221;</p><p>Roy Mann (Co-Founder, Co-CEO)</p><p>&#8220;<strong>And bear in mind that our approach initially will be for SMBs and mid-market.</strong> <strong>That&#8217;s where we shine.</strong> I think that&#8217;s like the place we start at and grow over time. Like Salesforce, for example, is our like best integration, and we&#8217;re augmenting them around them. I don&#8217;t think we&#8217;re like [indiscernible] enterprise, <strong>nor do I think we will compete with ServiceNow on their customers and their size</strong>.&#8221; <em>&#8212; Investor Day &#8216;23</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-21" href="#footnote-anchor-21" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">21</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>Expert</p><p>&#8220;Similar answer, but farther along, I'd say it still depends on the use case. Use case dictates a lot of stuff with Monday. If we take a look at our three top products, we've got Work Management, CRM, and Service. I think each have a different enterprise readiness level, which is mostly just based on the time that they've been out.</p><p><strong>Work Management being the oldest, most mature product, it's seen the most iterations, it's seen the most updates. I think it's, let's say, 90% ready for full enterprise deployment. CRM has been around for a little while now, seen some updates and seen some refinement, and so I would say it's maybe 75% ready or 65% or 70% ready. Service, maybe it's like only 50% ready or something.</strong></p><p>That's how I see it in my head as far as where the different products are at as far as ready to start tackling the majority of enterprise use cases.&#8221;</p><p>Client</p><p>&#8220;Got it. Anything on CWM that your customers are currently asking for that it's lacking to get that final 10%?&#8221;</p><p>Expert</p><p><strong>&#8220;A lot of it's just volume, when their database is currently limited to 100,000 items on a board, and they're working on upping that to one million.</strong> That'll be a huge proponent to big enterprise people with big address contact books and things, being able to more realistically adopt the platform, just without hitting item limitations and things of that nature.&#8221;</p><p>&#8212; Tegus, Elevate Business Ops (Aug-25)</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-22" href="#footnote-anchor-22" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">22</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;I think it's really important to highlight, we're just getting started in the enterprise space. <strong>We had a really big unlock with the infrastructure work we did with mondayDB. Prior to mondayDB, our largest seat count was 7,000, now we're up to 80,000.</strong> We've seen leaps and bounds more scalability, and that's really opened up that enterprise space for us, and that's why the enterprise segment is now our fastest-growing segment. And we feel like we can penetrate even further with the CWM space as we push more with mondayDB and the features that we're offering that Roy mentioned in the enterprise space as well.&#8221; &#8212; <em>JP Morgan Conference (Mar-25)</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-23" href="#footnote-anchor-23" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">23</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>Parker Conrad</p><p>&#8220;I think it&#8217;s because <strong>the platform shift from on-prem to cloud created a bunch of opportunities for like a bunch of base hits. With SaaS where you could sort of peel off like one application area from these sort of big on-prem providers that you know just took a long time to move to the cloud and get that really stood up and you could very easily actually get a lot of traction with something that was extremely narrow and that was like good enough for a period of time.</strong> </p><p>I think what happens is over time the bar goes up in terms of what you need to be able to do for clients and it&#8217;s no longer enough to have a standalone SaaS application. You are needing these other capabilities or these these deeper capabilities and that that sort of forces things like back together.  I think that&#8217;s where we&#8217;re going right now. </p><p>It&#8217;ll be interesting to see &#8212; because <strong>some people would argue like well AI is sort of like a similar kind of shift from like on-prem to cloud and I probably don&#8217;t agree. I think it&#8217;s actually probably more centralizing as a technology.</strong> But that, you know, that&#8217;s that&#8217;s kind of my view on sort of what what triggered that at least for a period of time.&#8221;</p><p>Sarah Guo</p><p>&#8220;I think that&#8217;s right. I also think that the latter half of the SaaS revolution has coincided with a massive bull market, right, through the &#8216;22. And I think that if you had internet distribution of software to like mid-market companies that could buy online and rapidly, then Rippling might be the exception to this, but selling point solutions was a faster thing than getting people to shift core systems. And you could start selling with much less product. I think you guys worked on Rippling for a while with a lot of people before you really had something to sell. And so I think it&#8217;s also part of the investing cycle of like how quickly people expected progress from the investing community.&#8221;</p><p>Parker Conrad</p><p>&#8220;Some of that is like the nature of the bar raising, where <strong>I think there was a period of time where if there was no SaaS application for, I don&#8217;t know whatever, like time tracking or expense management or something like that. Yeah, you could build a standalone thing for that and it would get very rapid uptake. But as soon as you start to get the bigger core systems that now that comes standard in a SaaS way and in the cloud, not on-prem software, suddenly that&#8217;s not good enough anymore.</strong> </p><p>So there&#8217;s like the window of opportunity that kind of closes over time, but eventually you need to find sort of new islands of product market fit that are a little bit further out and sort of maybe over the edge of the horizon. And I think that tends to be something that solves a bigger and broader class of problem for customers that usually requires you to take on a lot more in order to solve problems that are often often about like internal business process coordination that do cut across a lot of these different applications and it&#8217;s a lot less work for customers ultimately to be using one thing.&#8221; <em>&#8212; Parker Conrad, No Priors podcast (Jul-25)</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-24" href="#footnote-anchor-24" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">24</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;If and when it gets to a point where it&#8217;s just much, much easier to build software because engineers are so much more productive, <strong>I think what will happen is rather than needing way fewer engineers what&#8217;s going to happen is a lot of these like core software systems are going to end up getting like highly verticalized.</strong> You&#8217;re going to end up having Rippling for ophthalmology clinics where there&#8217;s going to be a lot of specific capabilities of the system like just for like ophthalmology clinics and that&#8217;s going to be possible because it&#8217;s like a lot easier to build an application much more quickly because the cost has come down. </p><p>And unlike sort of people that are building independent vertical software, if you&#8217;re a company that&#8217;s actually building like &#8212; &#8216;Hey we&#8217;re Rippling for ophthalmology clinics&#8217; &#8212; <strong>the challenge is I think it&#8217;s really hard to have all of the underlying platform capabilities that you need in that system. And so some of the challenges with vertical software historically have been that you have this choice between like heavily customized for the industry, but missing a lot of like core underlying capabilities. </strong>And so if you&#8217;re a company that needs something like you know serious, you eventually need to go to like you need to move to Salesforce or something from like the the thing that&#8217;s like very industry focused. </p><p><strong>And I think what will happen is that like actually as the cost of software building applications comes down it will let the sort of core companies build a lot of industry specific vertical applications.</strong> And so this is just kind of a long way of giving an example of why I think that &#8212; look if you and your small team can like vibe code an application that gets a lot of distribution very quickly, so can a lot of other people. And so inevitably what&#8217;s going to happen is the bar will go up and what customers expect and it might not happen immediately, right? Like you might get, for some moment of time, a lot of distribution very quickly. But eventually there are going to be competitors and the expectations are going to go up. The pricing is going to come down. The frontier is going to move out and you&#8217;re going to need to be there and that&#8217;s going to take people. It&#8217;s going to require more engineers, more investment, at the bleeding edge of whatever is possible.&#8221; <em>&#8212; Parker Conrad, No Priors podcast (Jul-25)</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-25" href="#footnote-anchor-25" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">25</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;AbbaDox is a radiology CRM. It is, I don&#8217;t say this in a negative way, but they&#8217;re cheap and cheap in terms of we&#8217;re always trying to obviously look for the most cost-effective tool. Most people are saying you get what you pay for. If we paid a higher premium, would we get more value out of it? That would actually add to our bottom line, even though you&#8217;re paying for maybe a higher premium.</p><p><strong>My gut would be is that AbbaDox is still cheaper, but again, I don&#8217;t think you get the insight that you potentially would be getting through Monday.com. AbbaDox is a pretty well-known player in the space, but I would say companies like mine are opening their doors to what your comment was before, trying to consolidate as much as we can.</strong> Because managing multiple contracts, also having exposure from a cybersecurity perspective.</p><p>One of our goals nationwide is to reduce year over year the number of outside third parties we&#8217;re utilizing to minimize our exposure, especially since we&#8217;re in healthcare. It&#8217;s not only about release of financial, so that may get out, but obviously the release of health information that obviously is in breach of HIPAA, which could put us in a wrangle situation which we don&#8217;t want to be, and so again, really in line in reducing our exposure.&#8221;</p><p>&#8212; Tegus, University Radiology (Apr-25)</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-26" href="#footnote-anchor-26" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">26</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;What does Monday buy you? More structure API to drive it, controls, UIs, data visibility, data controls, all that fun stuff that goes with that. Also, interlinking between different sheets just like in Excel you could theoretically link between different tabs but once you are going cross sheets, cross files, it's a little bit harder to update, and whatnot. Automation triggers that trigger from one sheet to another sheet, etc. That's effectively what Monday is doing.</p><p>All of a sudden you go and say, &#8216;Wait a minute, we can take Monday, and build practically any use case that we want out of it,&#8217; and address that 70%, 80% of business use cases today that live on Excel that is too diverse that no packaged software company out there exists or is willing to do investor R&amp;D and to develop. Monday has a crazy addressable market in a sense that it's really addressing an unaddressed market today which is flexible software need.</p><p>Is it going to replace Salesforce? No, that's not what Monday is trying to do. Monday recognizes that they are not going to replace a true enterprise software, a Salesforce. In that sense that they use Salesforce themselves. <strong>Here's the thing &#8212; not everyone needs a Salesforce. If I were to go look at the Salesforce install base, how many of those customers truly need all Salesforce capabilities? </strong>How many customers have Salesforce because it was cool to have Salesforce? Some CEO, president, VP of sales got in their head that says, &#8216;We have to have Salesforce,&#8217; and they wedge Salesforce in, except their business model has nothing to do with Salesforce.</p><p>A perfect example I always love using is I had a customer once, they were a PE roll-up of all the funeral homes businesses. This private equity went and bought up half the funeral homes in America and throw it onto one company and try to build synergies around it. Funeral homes have a sales [motion], but it's gruesome, if you think about it, because your only customers are people who just died. How do you go and say, "Hey, are you going to die next week? Would you like to buy my funeral home services?" That sales process doesn't work. <strong>The standard discovery quote follow-up process that Salesforce pushes as &#8216;best practices,&#8217; it doesn't really work in the funeral home business now does it?</strong></p><p>There's no good product out there that works for the funeral home business. If I were to go look at across the board, how many businesses are out there where they try to wedge in a CRM like Salesforce? <strong>That's when you start realizing, people are going to buy Monday because they're going to realize, &#8216;Wait a minute, I don't have to jump through hoops to do what I'm trying to do with Salesforce when I can just model my business properly with Monday.&#8217;&#8221;</strong></p><p>&#8212; Tegus, AXANEXA (Jun-25)</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-27" href="#footnote-anchor-27" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">27</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;So yes, definitely, we've seen success with CRM and Dev. Obviously, Work Management is a huge one for us years ago. <strong>Going forward, we're probably going to add a few more kind of core products to our product suite, might be HR, might be other categories we're going to double down on.</strong></p><p>So we're open on adding new products. We see a lot of opportunity within our own customer base. We see demand from our own customer base. So definitely, there's opportunity there and the results from CRM and also Dev now are very encouraging. And like we mentioned, for the long tail, we're going to open it up for third-party vendors to extend our product suite.</p><p>But overall, if you kind of have me to envision Monday, 2, 3 years, <strong>I see a company offering a very strong product suite, maybe 4, 5, 6 potential products that are kind of core to the company in addition to a long offering of long-tail solutions from different kind of more nuanced vertical industries.</strong> So that's how kind of I envision the Monday suite going forward.&#8221; &#8212; <em>Q1&#8217;23 Earnings</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-28" href="#footnote-anchor-28" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">28</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>Kasthuri Rangan (Analyst)</p><p>&#8220;Is there any opportunities in HR space, payroll, HR, human capital management?&#8221;</p><p>Eran Zinman (Co-Founder, Co-CEO)</p><p>&#8220;Yes. So as I mentioned, the way that Monday CRM and Dev gave birth was that we saw customers using [Monday in this way]. So other use cases we see are HR. Definitely, our customers are doing that anywhere from onboarding, recruitment, salary processes, feedback talks. So that's one segment we see. Another one is ITSM, very interesting. IT managing...&#8221;</p><p>Kasthuri Rangan (Analyst)</p><p>&#8220;Really? You are the next ServiceNow.&#8221;</p><p>Eran Zinman (Co-Founder, Co-CEO)</p><p>&#8220;Well, we have a lot of things we need to prove before -- but you can crown us, yes.&#8221; </p><p><em>&#8212; Goldman Conference (Sep-23)</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-29" href="#footnote-anchor-29" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">29</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>Client</p><p>&#8220;That&#8217;s helpful. Any other products you think they may launch? I&#8217;ve heard an HCM or some sort of HR product may make sense down the road. You think that&#8217;s in the roadmap or what are you hearing, or anything? Any other?&#8221;</p><p>Expert</p><p>&#8220;If I look at the product suite, HR makes the most sense. They tried doing a marketing product, but it failed. We even pulled it from the market. HR makes the most sense, but also, I&#8217;m not sure we&#8217;re going to see a new product in the next one year because also with HR, every single country has different frameworks around HR. You have payroll. There&#8217;s a lot of complexity.</p><p><strong>I&#8217;m actually not sure that Monday wants to get their fingers dirty in that jar because the volume of development they need to do in order to be competitive is 100X more than both for CRM and Service. HR is very, very specific.</strong></p><p>I&#8217;m saying this, I used to work 11 years as head of HR, so I know exactly what those software are expected to be able to do. That will take Monday 10 years with a HR product to get to a point where it can compete with local software for each country.&#8221;</p><p><em>&#8212; Tegus, Omnitas Consulting (Jul-25)</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-30" href="#footnote-anchor-30" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">30</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;As a general truth, a company doesn&#8217;t innovate, will die or will be behind. So you have to innovate. And, you know, one of the interviews that you did on the podcast was with the CFO of ServiceNow. <strong>And this is a company like for me it&#8217;s a North Star&#8230;.As she mentioned, they have more than ten [products] with more than $250 million in revenue, which each one of them is a company.</strong> </p><p>And the way we think about our business, if you think about ServiceNow, we build and we invest today, even in the price of not improving bottom line&#8230;But we understand that we have to build kind of the growth engines for the future.&#8221; <em>&#8212; Eliran Glazer on After Earnings Podcast (Jun-24)</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-31" href="#footnote-anchor-31" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">31</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;So let's take a look at an example of how that works. So this is one of the biggest gaming companies in the world, and they are split into multiple gaming labels. The way they started with us is they went online and <strong>they bought 5 users in a complete self-serve motion</strong>, no one talked to them.</p><p>Our sales organization identified the opportunity and the logo that they have, and we started to engage with them and we got in touch with their PMO manager. We landed through him roughly around 300 users in that account. But what happened next is that after they got the value, <strong>we got introduction to the other labels, but also to the other departments in that organization.</strong></p><p><strong>Today, we are used in almost all departments in that company from marketing, design, services and operations department. And we expanded to 7,500 users</strong> <strong>with them and over $1 million of ACV</strong>.&#8221; <em>&#8212; Investor Day &#8216;23</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-32" href="#footnote-anchor-32" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">32</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;Here&#8217;s a customer that started with 15 seats online, by the way. A major bank. This is &#8216;21, late &#8216;21. They start to use the product, and it just grows like fungus, as I like to say, and more consumption, more use cases inside that one department. Then another department recognizes what they&#8217;re doing, sees and says, that&#8217;s pretty cool. I have an idea of what we can do to fill a void in our organization so that we can work smarter. And so another department takes it on. <strong>So now we&#8217;re 2 years later, we&#8217;re at 1,800 seats, right? And this is when it starts, &#8216;24, 5,000 seats, right? &#8216;25, almost 10,000 seats. And the story continues.</strong></p><p><strong>And this is one example of the, let&#8217;s say, 68, but they all look very similar.</strong></p><p><strong>Rarely do we ever land a $1 million ACV account on the first swing.</strong> It goes back to those previous slides. <strong>It&#8217;s the third and fourth swing</strong> because they start with 50, they go to 100, 300 to 1 million.&#8221; <em>&#8212; Investor Day &#8216;25</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-33" href="#footnote-anchor-33" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">33</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;Another very important aspect for us is our team and our culture.</p><p>And it&#8217;s also something that is geared towards speed of execution. So we have an internal language, an internal name for everyone who builds the product at Monday. It&#8217;s the builders. It&#8217;s the engineers, it&#8217;s the product designers, it&#8217;s the analysts. And of course, each team in Monday that works on the product is a builder&#8217;s team.</p><p><strong>These teams are multidisciplinary because we want them to be able to take things end to end. They are very empowered by us to take first decisions independently. And we keep these teams very small because we feel that this creates the best communication and the best way of work. We need our teams small, but also with great talent density.</strong></p><p>And with this culture, we actually managed to get a very quick to market, efficient and high-quality execution. And we do that by putting an emphasis on 3 main things. First is extreme ownership and alignment. You probably know, I worked in many different teams where product and engineering works together. Many times, products want to define the problem, then they finished and now the engineering need to execute. And that doesn&#8217;t necessarily result in a good end result for the users.</p><p>So what we did differently is that for our teams, for the builders teams, we have 1 KPI. And this creates a huge alignment between everyone. And it&#8217;s important to say this KPI is our customer success. So teams are failing and succeeding together based on the customer&#8217;s result. Second, we really believe in fast and iterative execution. Why? Because when things are fast and you have lots of iterations, the feedback loop is very short. And with that, you get the shortest path to customer value.</p><p>Last but not least, we build everything around the builders to be measured by real-world KPIs. We use a lot of data. You&#8217;ll see in Yoni&#8217;s section, Big Brain, which is the foundation for a data-driven culture. We connect them to feedback, direct feedback from customers from any form you can think about it. So in this example, you can see an engineering Monday, when he walks, he gets feedback from reviews from customers directly from data in all sorts of ways, and this creates [indiscernible] for impacting the users.&#8221; <em>&#8212; Investor Day &#8216;23</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-34" href="#footnote-anchor-34" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">34</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>Eran Zinman (Co-Founder, Co-CEO)</p><p>&#8220;Yes. DJ, it&#8217;s Eran. So unfortunately, from my own experience, spending more on R&amp;D doesn&#8217;t always correlate with more execution. So I wish this was the case. But being efficient in terms of R&amp;D developers, product and designers is all the goal of us, and it&#8217;s very important for us.</p><p><strong>Often, what we found is sometimes having less people on the team makes a team more efficient as opposed to having a lot of people on the team.</strong></p><p>And you&#8217;ve seen our execution over the years. We always believe in high velocity execution. We drive to make an impact with our product teams and given then a lot of the ownership. We&#8217;re very proud in how we manage our R&amp;D team and execution.</p><p>In terms of the percentage of spend, it might go up a little bit in terms of -- maybe Eliran can add more color than this. But we&#8217;re keen to keep our efficiency, and even more than that, we&#8217;re keen to continue and execute as we scale the company.&#8221;</p><p>Eliran Glazer (CFO)</p><p>&#8220;Yes. It&#8217;s Eliran. Maybe DJ, just to add that in terms of R&amp;D, we always want to hire -- this is the #1 priority of hiring, bringing resources to Monday. But the flip side of it, you compared us to Atlassian, there is always like if you look at S&amp;M and R&amp;D, I would look at them together because it&#8217;s also important to understand the other divisions as well.</p><p>So in S&amp;M, we were able to reduce cost as percentage of revenue. In the case of other companies, sometimes, it can be the other way around. So I think that all in all, investment in R&amp;D is a top priority of us, and we continue to be efficient. But definitely this is something that we would like to highlight.&#8221; <em>&#8212; Q2&#8217;24 Earnings</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-35" href="#footnote-anchor-35" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">35</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>Jason Lemkin (SaaStr)</p><p>&#8220;You&#8217;ve got 3,200 bigger customers &#8212; 50k to 100K. They&#8217;re growing 45% for 100k, right? So I have to imagine half the conversations in the hallway at Monday are about the 100K customers. It has to be, right? And it&#8217;s even more than that because, they have &#8212; your NRR is not as variable as some &#8212; but they&#8217;re still the highest NRR and they buy the most products. So as a Founder, how do you make sure the small guys get enough attention? Honestly, between us and anyone else watching or listening, I see a lot of leaders abandoning the small businesses. A lot of the products we we use, especially the simple ones that have &#8212; the Slacks. Like I I love Slack, but I haven&#8217;t seen it evolve in six years, okay? Zoom &#8212; I love Zoom &#8212; but all the energy is in the enterprise. How do you force the team, how do you take care of the small guys when you&#8217;re going more enterprise? Few are doing this well, so how do you do it?&#8221;</p><p>Eran Zinman (Co-Founder, Co-CEO)</p><p>&#8220;It&#8217;s an amazing question, because I think that&#8217;s something that a lot of companies are, in my opinion, might be getting wrong. I think a lot of companies&#8217; intuition is we&#8217;re going to move up market, so let&#8217;s abandon the SMB, mid-market segment. Because you do the math and you say, &#8216;Oh I&#8217;m spending that amount of effort on closing those deals, getting those customers on board &#8212; I might as well invest time in the larger customers, because then you become more cost efficient.&#8217; <strong>But I think that that might be a big mistake, because eventually and I&#8217;ve seen this in so many kind of veteran SaaS companies. What happens is eventually you abandon the mid-market and SMB segment and then you have this huge vacuum.</strong> You leave a huge vacuum in the market I think to some extent.</p><p><strong>I&#8217;m not an expert but that&#8217;s what happened with Salesforce and HubSpot. Salesforce moved upmarket in a way, and HubSpot saw this huge vacuum in the market. And low and behold, they captured a lot of the mid-market and SMB segment&#8230;</strong></p><p>That&#8217;s the thing people don&#8217;t realize. <strong>That the SMBs and mid-market of today are the enterprise of tomorrow.</strong> So they they getting used to use another product, they&#8217;re getting used to using another platform. And eventually they become the enterprise companies and then those enterprise companies those companies that move up market, leave that vacuum. And eventually I think over time just become irrelevant, in a way. And I feel that the fact that we cater both &#8212; first of all, I think it&#8217;s moat, as a company. Because you don&#8217;t leave like a vacuum in your market for other players to come in and capture that market. I also feel it keeps you humble and keeps you focused on the user experience, on creating a great product, on creating great onboarding for your customers. And I think enterprise customers eventually benefit from that, as well.&#8221;  <em>&#8212; SaaStr (Feb-25)</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-36" href="#footnote-anchor-36" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">36</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>Roy Mann (Co-Founder, Co-CEO)</p><p>&#8220;When you look at the graph and it&#8217;s growing, like every month is a struggle. To double, or more than double, it means that if we want to double this year we need to do in one year what we&#8217;ve done throughout the life of the company, that&#8217;s what it means. So it cannot be the same things that we&#8217;ve done until now that will make us succeed this year so you need to break everything. </p><p>There is a nice visual thing of how you build a car. And people think it&#8217;s like, you see the wheels and then they put [on] the top and then you know, you end up having a car. <strong>And you say no, you start with the skateboard, and then a scooter, then a bicycle and then a car. But the thing is is that when you move to the scooter you need to brake the skateboard.</strong> And that&#8217;s how to do what most people find uncomfortable is like they cover the skateboard, put an engine on it.&#8221; <em>&#8212; Startup Grind Conference (Mar-20)</em></p></div></div>]]></content:encoded></item><item><title><![CDATA[[$VEEV] Veeva Systems]]></title><description><![CDATA[Fantastic Business, Steep Multiple]]></description><link>https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/p/veev-veeva-systems</link><guid isPermaLink="false">https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/p/veev-veeva-systems</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[Ryan Seawell]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Tue, 24 Jun 2025 12:30:18 GMT</pubDate><enclosure url="https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!pI7m!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2e3c30c9-e946-44fc-a0af-3e516015166d_755x561.png" length="0" type="image/jpeg"/><content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Disclaimers: I own Veeva shares; this is not investment advice</em></p><div><hr></div><p>Veeva is the global leader in cloud software for the life science industry, serving ~1,500 customers, including ~47 of the top 50 global biopharmaceutical companies. </p><p>Since its IPO in 2013, Veeva has grown its revenue more than 13-fold (a ~26% CAGR) while maintaining best-in-class operating margins (~40% non-GAAP over the last five years).</p><p>Yet despite this level of profitability, Veeva has spent the past 4+ years investing heavily in a range of new applications. These products are reaching maturity and beginning to take real share in markets where Veeva is generally out-innovating legacy providers. These markets are also large &#8212; many of them are ~$1bn opportunities.</p><p>With its tentacles now spanning virtually the entire commercial and R&amp;D functions of its customers, Veeva is exceptionally well-positioned to bring AI to the industry. After some initial skepticism on the technology, Veeva&#8217;s CEO stated just last quarter that through AI he thought Veeva could increase the efficiency of the entire life science industry by ~15% over ~5 years. Across a $2 trillion industry, that would represent a staggering ~$300bn in efficiencies! Veeva&#8217;s AI offerings are slated to begin rolling out in earnest around the end of the year. </p><p>While Veeva will undoubtedly grow from here, is the future so bright that it justifies Veeva&#8217;s current ~15x revenue multiple? I&#8217;ll examine below.</p><div class="subscription-widget-wrap-editor" data-attrs="{&quot;url&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/subscribe?&quot;,&quot;text&quot;:&quot;Subscribe&quot;,&quot;language&quot;:&quot;en&quot;}" data-component-name="SubscribeWidgetToDOM"><div class="subscription-widget show-subscribe"><div class="preamble"><p class="cta-caption">Thanks for reading Lewistown Capital! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work.</p></div><form class="subscription-widget-subscribe"><input type="email" class="email-input" name="email" placeholder="Type your email&#8230;" tabindex="-1"><input type="submit" class="button primary" value="Subscribe"><div class="fake-input-wrapper"><div class="fake-input"></div><div class="fake-button"></div></div></form></div></div><div><hr></div><h2>Business Overview</h2><p>Veeva was founded in 2007 by Peter Gassner and Matt Wallach. Its original product was a life science-focused CRM, built on top of the Salesforce platform. </p><p>The company chose life sciences as its initial area of focus because &#8220;horizontal&#8221; CRM solutions simply wouldn&#8217;t suffice for the industry&#8217;s complex and regulation-heavy set of requirements. Furthermore, at the time, Veeva benefitted from (1) there being no true cloud (i.e. multi-tenant) solution for the industry and (2) the fact that the industry&#8217;s primary incumbent &#8212; Siebel &#8212; had a solution so byzantine that certain clients reportedly felt it necessary to spend $5-10m on projects just to reduce its complexity.</p><p>Veeva won its first contract with Pfizer &#8212; on a niche product with just 6 sales reps. For the next ~12-15 months, Veeva focused the entire company solely on Pfizer&#8217;s success as a client. Veeva would graduate to a 23-rep product, then a 35-rep product, before winning an RFP for Pfizer&#8217;s entire US sales force. After cementing its position with Pfizer, Veeva continued to focus solely on CRM &#8212; first within just the US and later globally. </p><p>In 2012, Veeva began introducing products for the R&amp;D (or &#8220;drug development&#8221;) function of its life science customers &#8212; a function basically entirely separate from CRM/commercial. </p><p>Over a decade of cross-selling ensued and continues to this day (in fact Veeva is still in the earlier innings of this). As it turned out, R&amp;D was a very large opportunity as well as a landscape littered with point solutions.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-1" href="#footnote-1" target="_self">1</a><a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-2" href="#footnote-2" target="_self">2</a><a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-3" href="#footnote-3" target="_self">3</a> Veeva has replaced up to 200 different vendors for certain customers over time, generally charging less (and offering a better product) while itself generating super normal profitability.</p><p>Looking back, it was the perfect strategy at the perfect time with the perfect team&#8230;</p><p>Using just $7m of VC capital (and spending only $3m of that), Veeva today sports a market cap of ~$48bn on ~$3bn of revenue. It sells over 50 different applications across the commercial and R&amp;D functions, with revenue split roughly 50/50 between the two areas. </p><div><hr></div><h2>Key Investment Merits</h2><p><em>Extremely Sticky</em></p><p>Veeva is maybe the preeminent example of vertical SaaS stickiness:</p><ul><li><p>The software is built from the ground up for the life science industry. In life sciences, regulatory forces are onerous and change by the geo (from country to country and even state to state).<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-4" href="#footnote-4" target="_self">4</a> Things like &#8220;pharmacovigilance&#8221; must be tracked meticulously<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-5" href="#footnote-5" target="_self">5</a> and applications that seem simple on the surface, like Events Management, are muddied by industry-specific compliance requirements.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-6" href="#footnote-6" target="_self">6</a> Veeva has a deep, deep understanding of the industry and offers products that are built from the ground-up to address these requirements.</p></li><li><p>The software is mission critical. Pharma companies can&#8217;t operate without Veeva&#8217;s solutions. In some cases (i.e. the Safety suite), if Veeva were to fail, a customer would have to immediately stop all commercial activities. </p></li><li><p>Veeva&#8217;s offerings are predominantly &#8220;system of record&#8221; solutions. Veeva acts as the primary, authoritative database for much of the data it touches. This increases switching costs in a major way.</p></li><li><p>The software consists of integrated suites of solutions. These suites are designed to talk to each other seamlessly and remove very material integration headaches for Veeva&#8217;s customers. Customers are thus incentivized to &#8220;standardize&#8221; on Veeva, or adopt Veeva for every application in a suite. </p></li><li><p>Veeva has a highly trusted brand. Veeva has become the &#8220;no one gets fired for buying IBM&#8221; brand. Except it&#8217;s really that on steroids &#8212; many Veeva offerings are in areas of ultra-high conservativism for its customers (clinical trials, safety, quality). You simply cannot mess up one of these applications.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-7" href="#footnote-7" target="_self">7</a></p></li></ul><p>For all these reasons, a competing product doesn&#8217;t stand much of a chance &#8212; and indeed, Veeva really hasn&#8217;t seen any credible new entrants since its founding ~20 years ago. A competing solution would need to be perhaps 2x better to have any real shot at success. And there&#8217;s just no way to be 2x better at this point over any reasonable period (expect perhaps through through a paradigm shift like AI &#8212; more on that later). </p><p><em>Product Excellence</em></p><p>From its founding, Veeva&#8217;s greatest priority has been product excellence. From its 2014 investor day:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;So if you look at Veeva and how we're founded, we were founded by some super product people. I'm a product person in my bones. And we have people that know how to really develop product, design product, market product, sell product, service product. Product, product, product. And we decided, and we wrote this down very early in the company, probably within the first 3 months, we're going to have product excellence.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>Veeva&#8217;s approach to product is that every application it introduces should win on a standalone basis, or be &#8220;best of breed.&#8221; The fact that an application integrates neatly with the suite around it should simply be an added bonus &#8212; not the reason for winning. From its 2015 investor day:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;When we say it's integrated and best-of-breed, best-of-breed means if they were going to go do an RFP for just e-mail, if we have an e-mail product, they should be choosing ours. <strong>We're going to invest until it is the very best product in the market, and the fact that it's beautifully, perfectly integrated with the rest of the Commercial Cloud, it's kind of gravy.</strong>&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>Getting there isn&#8217;t easy. According to management, it requires great product people working intelligently for 4+ years. It requires making the right product decisions over and over again, day in and day out. And while it&#8217;s a subjective metric, I think its fair to say Veeva has achieved this (or will achieve it) across the majority of its offerings.</p><p>Product excellence makes everything easier:</p><ul><li><p>It makes sales easier. Sales come much easier when you have a reputation for great products. Even more so when you are selling to a customer where you&#8217;ve already sold and delivered on great products.</p></li><li><p>It makes professional services easier. Veeva believes its professional services personnel enjoy their jobs more/have longer tenures because they are working with customers who generally like and appreciate Veeva&#8217;s products.</p></li><li><p>It improves morale throughout company. If you are constantly dealing with customers that like &amp; appreciate you, you will have a lot better morale than if you are dealing with customers that don&#8217;t. </p></li><li><p>Product people enjoy working there. Product people at Veeva are building the industry&#8217;s best products for the industry&#8217;s leading customers.</p></li></ul><p>Gassner, a platform engineer by trade, still reportedly sits amongst Veeva&#8217;s platform engineering team. </p><p><em>Customer Goodwill</em></p><p>Veeva prides itself on its customer friendly behavior.</p><p>Veeva has a goal of being the &#8220;leader and liked.&#8221;<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-8" href="#footnote-8" target="_self">8</a> They want to be essential to the industry, but also appreciated by the industry. From a Jan-23 JPM conference:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;We want to be essential to each company in the industry and appreciated by each company in the industry. That's a super high bar because when you become essential, truly essential, you tend to not be appreciated because there's some resentment towards that. And you also get &#8212; you get arrogant and lackadaisical when you're essential. But that's our bar. <strong>We want to be essential to the industry and appreciated by the industry.</strong>&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>Some examples of their customer-friendly behavior:</p><ul><li><p>Lack of price increases. Veeva didn&#8217;t increase subscription pricing on existing customers from 2007 through &#8212; wait for it &#8212; 2023. Yes, that&#8217;s right &#8212; zero price increases over 16 years despite a clear ability to do so (and a competitive set that was supposedly raising prices by ~5-7% annually). When Veeva was ultimately somewhat forced to raise prices as a result of COVID-era inflation, they pegged increases to the lesser of CPI or 4% annually.</p></li><li><p>PBC. Veeva converted to a public benefit corporation (PBC) in 2020. This means that Veeva now has a legal obligation to balance the interests of customers, employees and shareholders (vs. just prioritizing shareholders). This was always how Veeva strived to operate in reality, but the PBC conversion made it a legal duty at the Board level. Management believes this will help hardcode such behavior into the company&#8217;s DNA for the long-term &#8212; beyond the tenures of Gassner, Wallach &amp; co.</p></li><li><p>Understaffing sales. Management believes in purposefully understaffing its sales team because it leads to better sales behavior.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-9" href="#footnote-9" target="_self">9</a><a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-10" href="#footnote-10" target="_self">10</a> They don&#8217;t want reps using aggressive tactics to make a quarter or go for the last dollar; they want to incentivize long-term relationship building. Maintaining a high number of opportunities per rep and achievable quotas helps accomplish this.</p></li><li><p>Annual contracts. When Veeva launched, its contracts were annual which was a departure from the multi-year industry standard. Primarily Veeva did this because it didn&#8217;t want to discount its offering, it should be noted. But Veeva also did it to establish a mindset of having to win a customer&#8217;s business every year &#8212; to ward off laziness.</p></li></ul><p>While this type of behavior sacrifices some near-term profits, it&#8217;s great long-term stewardship. They do right by their customers. They deliver great products. They are okay perhaps being a little underpriced relative to the value they provide. They don&#8217;t go for the last dollar. This all results in happy customers. Happy customers buy more products and happy customers don&#8217;t churn. From its 2014 investor day:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;The last one is customer success. For those of you who have spent a lot of time with us, you know that this is not just lip service. This is what drives our company, but it is also what may keep other companies out. <strong>Because if you're going to go start a software company, you're not going to take on a company that has a big installed base of customers that are happy. You don't do that.</strong></em></p><p><em><strong>Enterprise software is hard. You don't want to rip that stuff out. So you have to be unhappy for a couple of years before you really want to throw out an enterprise software system.</strong> So the success that we have, our customers want us to do more, like the call that Peter got, the calls that we get every week. &#8216;Hey, are you going to go into this? We're going to do a project. I really don't want to buy it from that niche point vendor, would you please do it and we'll just add it to the Veeva landscape.&#8217; </em></p><p><em>So it's hard to compete against an enterprise software company with happy customers. <strong>I would never start a software company to go compete against SAP in life sciences. They're well respected, the people are humble, they're still working hard even though they've sort of sold out the patch. You wouldn't do that because companies are happy with SAP. </strong></em></p><p><em><strong>By the same token, they're happy with Veeva.</strong> And so we're not so much of a target. <strong>And we actually haven't seen any companies start and compete with us with multi-tenant cloud applications in any of the markets that we compete with.</strong>&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p><em>Host of Emerging Products</em></p><p>Veeva has developed a host of new applications over the last 4+ years that have really just begun to mature and generate revenue. </p><p>The chart below from Veeva&#8217;s latest investor day shows certain of its large product categories by product maturity and market share. As you can see, most are still in the bottom-left quadrant.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!pI7m!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2e3c30c9-e946-44fc-a0af-3e516015166d_755x561.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!pI7m!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2e3c30c9-e946-44fc-a0af-3e516015166d_755x561.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!pI7m!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2e3c30c9-e946-44fc-a0af-3e516015166d_755x561.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!pI7m!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2e3c30c9-e946-44fc-a0af-3e516015166d_755x561.png" width="618" height="459.2026490066225" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/2e3c30c9-e946-44fc-a0af-3e516015166d_755x561.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:561,&quot;width&quot;:755,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:618,&quot;bytes&quot;:69729,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/161907035?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2e3c30c9-e946-44fc-a0af-3e516015166d_755x561.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!pI7m!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2e3c30c9-e946-44fc-a0af-3e516015166d_755x561.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!pI7m!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2e3c30c9-e946-44fc-a0af-3e516015166d_755x561.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!pI7m!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2e3c30c9-e946-44fc-a0af-3e516015166d_755x561.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!pI7m!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2e3c30c9-e946-44fc-a0af-3e516015166d_755x561.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>These products are in markets that are generally large and underserved by smaller, legacy competitors. </p><p>I believe this has Veeva well-positioned for its next leg of growth &#8212; more on that later. </p><p><em>Great Team</em></p><p>Peter Gassner has served as Veeva&#8217;s CEO since the company&#8217;s founding. Gassner and team (the senior team has an average tenure of ~10 years) have a distinguished track record.</p><ul><li><p>Built a ~$48bn market cap company on just $7m of VC capital </p></li><li><p>Grown revenue by 13x since its IPO in 2013, a CAGR of 26% over 11 years</p></li><li><p>Achieved a GAAP operating margin in the mid-20%s and a non-GAAP operating margin in the low-40%s, both best-in-class vs. software peers</p></li><li><p>All while setting the company up for a strong next leg of growth with a host of promising new offerings</p></li></ul><p>While getting up there in age, I&#8217;d expect Gassner to lead the company for at least the next 5 years.</p><p><em>Tremendous Financial Model</em></p><p>It&#8217;s got everything you could ask for:</p><ul><li><p>High gross margins</p></li><li><p>High operating margins</p></li><li><p>Minimal capital requirements</p></li><li><p>High revenue per employee</p></li><li><p>Substantial consistent excess cash flow</p></li><li><p>High ROE</p></li><li><p>100%+ net dollar retention</p></li><li><p>Exceptional CLTV/CAC metrics</p></li></ul><p>&#8220;Rule of 40&#8221; vs. peers:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Kexg!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8932b235-17c4-429d-b50d-130de377eaaf_2051x1852.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Kexg!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8932b235-17c4-429d-b50d-130de377eaaf_2051x1852.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Kexg!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8932b235-17c4-429d-b50d-130de377eaaf_2051x1852.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Kexg!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8932b235-17c4-429d-b50d-130de377eaaf_2051x1852.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Kexg!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8932b235-17c4-429d-b50d-130de377eaaf_2051x1852.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Kexg!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8932b235-17c4-429d-b50d-130de377eaaf_2051x1852.png" width="600" height="541.8956043956044" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/8932b235-17c4-429d-b50d-130de377eaaf_2051x1852.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1315,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:600,&quot;bytes&quot;:334817,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/161907035?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8932b235-17c4-429d-b50d-130de377eaaf_2051x1852.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Kexg!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8932b235-17c4-429d-b50d-130de377eaaf_2051x1852.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Kexg!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8932b235-17c4-429d-b50d-130de377eaaf_2051x1852.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Kexg!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8932b235-17c4-429d-b50d-130de377eaaf_2051x1852.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Kexg!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8932b235-17c4-429d-b50d-130de377eaaf_2051x1852.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>CAC payback vs peers<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-11" href="#footnote-11" target="_self">11</a>:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!iCa1!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa446315c-9a28-4704-a283-1b39d51e4a3b_2024x1899.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!iCa1!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa446315c-9a28-4704-a283-1b39d51e4a3b_2024x1899.png 424w, 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa446315c-9a28-4704-a283-1b39d51e4a3b_2024x1899.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!iCa1!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa446315c-9a28-4704-a283-1b39d51e4a3b_2024x1899.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" 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y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p><em>About as Non-Cyclical as You Can Get</em></p><p>Veeva supplies mission critical systems to a non-cyclical end market. Patients need their medicine no matter the macro environment.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-12" href="#footnote-12" target="_self">12</a> ~83% of Veeva&#8217;s revenue is subscription-based.</p><p><em>Well Positioned on AI</em></p><p>In short, Veeva seems extremely well positioned for AI. I think for Veeva, AI will be a &#8220;sustaining&#8221; technology and not a &#8220;disruptive&#8221; one. I think Veeva will benefit from a larger TAM, even more compelling products and/or internal efficiency gains. More on this later.</p><div><hr></div><h2>Product Overview</h2><p>Veeva&#8217;s product portfolio extends across the &#8220;commercial&#8221; (i.e. sales &amp; marketing) and &#8220;drug development&#8221; (i.e. clinical trials through manufacturing and safety monitoring) functions of its life science customers.</p><p>This is what Veeva is going for, essentially (from its 2017 investor day):</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!PR5s!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F5c1253ab-58cf-4c1a-8311-b05cefc32fc8_751x418.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!PR5s!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F5c1253ab-58cf-4c1a-8311-b05cefc32fc8_751x418.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!PR5s!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F5c1253ab-58cf-4c1a-8311-b05cefc32fc8_751x418.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!PR5s!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F5c1253ab-58cf-4c1a-8311-b05cefc32fc8_751x418.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!PR5s!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F5c1253ab-58cf-4c1a-8311-b05cefc32fc8_751x418.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!PR5s!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F5c1253ab-58cf-4c1a-8311-b05cefc32fc8_751x418.png" width="751" height="418" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/5c1253ab-58cf-4c1a-8311-b05cefc32fc8_751x418.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:418,&quot;width&quot;:751,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:56667,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/161907035?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F5c1253ab-58cf-4c1a-8311-b05cefc32fc8_751x418.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!PR5s!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F5c1253ab-58cf-4c1a-8311-b05cefc32fc8_751x418.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!PR5s!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F5c1253ab-58cf-4c1a-8311-b05cefc32fc8_751x418.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!PR5s!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F5c1253ab-58cf-4c1a-8311-b05cefc32fc8_751x418.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!PR5s!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F5c1253ab-58cf-4c1a-8311-b05cefc32fc8_751x418.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>SAP can handle the ERP; Veeva will take everything else&#8230;<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-13" href="#footnote-13" target="_self">13</a></p><p>Today Veeva has 50+ applications that fall into 5 main product categories:</p><ul><li><p>Commercial Systems (e.g. CRM, PromoMats, MedComms, Crossix, Compass)</p></li><li><p>Drug Development Systems:</p><ul><li><p>Clinical Operations (e.g. eTMF, CTMS, RTSM)</p></li><li><p>Clinical Data Management (e.g. EDC, CDB)</p></li><li><p>Regulatory &amp; Safety (e.g. Safety, Submissions)</p></li><li><p>Quality (e.g. QualityDocs, QMS, LIMS)</p></li></ul></li></ul><p>As you can see above, Veeva&#8217;s solutions look like an &#8220;alphabet soup&#8221; and are not easy to keep straight upon first pass (or second or third&#8230;). </p><p>Below I&#8217;ll try to shed some light on each area.</p><ol><li><p><em>Commercial Systems </em></p></li></ol><p>Veeva&#8217;s first product was a life science specific CRM developed on top of the Salesforce platform and introduced in ~2007. Today Veeva dominates this niche, with ~80% market share of all pharma sales reps globally. </p><p>Over time Veeva developed a suite of complementary add-on applications, which altogether Veeva refers to as its &#8220;Commercial Cloud.&#8221; </p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Cpfk!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd15c9dc1-0edb-42d0-b71a-874092f88548_1002x560.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Cpfk!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd15c9dc1-0edb-42d0-b71a-874092f88548_1002x560.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Cpfk!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd15c9dc1-0edb-42d0-b71a-874092f88548_1002x560.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Cpfk!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd15c9dc1-0edb-42d0-b71a-874092f88548_1002x560.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Cpfk!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd15c9dc1-0edb-42d0-b71a-874092f88548_1002x560.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Cpfk!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd15c9dc1-0edb-42d0-b71a-874092f88548_1002x560.png" width="1002" height="560" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/d15c9dc1-0edb-42d0-b71a-874092f88548_1002x560.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:560,&quot;width&quot;:1002,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:105364,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/161907035?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd15c9dc1-0edb-42d0-b71a-874092f88548_1002x560.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Cpfk!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd15c9dc1-0edb-42d0-b71a-874092f88548_1002x560.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Cpfk!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd15c9dc1-0edb-42d0-b71a-874092f88548_1002x560.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Cpfk!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd15c9dc1-0edb-42d0-b71a-874092f88548_1002x560.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Cpfk!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd15c9dc1-0edb-42d0-b71a-874092f88548_1002x560.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Below is a look at how some of its core commercial products have penetrated the world&#8217;s top 20 pharma companies over time. </p><div><hr></div><p><em>Note: the top 20 pharma charts that follow are based on &#8220;unofficial&#8221; data. Veeva does not formally report on these metrics, say every quarter. Rather, they provide intermittent disclosures, such as after a new top 20 win, in earnings releases or on investor calls. So while I think they&#8217;re useful, they won&#8217;t be fully accurate.</em></p><p><em>Veeva&#8217;s count of top 20 pharma customers is an important metric because the industry is disproportionately top-heavy &#8212; the top 20 represent approximately half of all industry revenue.</em></p><div><hr></div><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!158T!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fea215108-d5df-417f-b3ba-63726da27230_2055x1148.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!158T!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fea215108-d5df-417f-b3ba-63726da27230_2055x1148.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!158T!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fea215108-d5df-417f-b3ba-63726da27230_2055x1148.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!158T!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fea215108-d5df-417f-b3ba-63726da27230_2055x1148.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!158T!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fea215108-d5df-417f-b3ba-63726da27230_2055x1148.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" 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y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p><em>Note the CRM line and the PromoMats line are overlapping &#8212; they both count 19 of the top 20 pharma companies as customers, which was first disclosed by the company at its 2017 investor day. Veeva&#8217;s top 20 CRM customer count will likely tick down a bit as a result of a CRM platform shift that is underway &#8212; discussed later on. Also the Compass/Crossix wins solely represent brand wins (of at least one) within a top 20 pharma customer (and are far from winning these customers&#8217; entire portfolio of brands).</em></p><p>As we can see above, Veeva has dominated CRM/PromoMats for many years, and is only just beginning to scratch the surface in the Crossix/Compass markets.</p><p>Below is some detail on the commercial suite beyond the CRM:</p><ul><li><p>PromoMats (announced 2011): content management application supporting the full lifecycle of promotional content. It enables content creation, review and approval (a critical function in life sciences), digital asset management (DAM), etc. PromoMats is connected with CRM for automatic distribution of promotional content via applications like CLM (Closed Loop Marketing) and Approved Email</p></li><li><p>MedComms (announced 2011): content management application supporting the specific needs of Medical Affairs (a function within the pharma industry that focuses on communicating scientific and clinical information about a company&#8217;s products to HCPs and the public). It enables content creation, review and approval, storage, management, and distribution. </p></li><li><p>Approved Email (announced 2013): compliance management for email communications with HCPs (healthcare providers)</p></li><li><p>Events Management (announced 2015): end-to-end compliant event management</p></li><li><p>Align (announced 2015): sales rep territory management</p></li><li><p>Crossix (acquired 2019): (1) marketing spend measurement &amp; optimization and (2) programmatic advertising. Crossix is supposedly the clear market leader in measurement while their programmatic advertising is more nascent.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-14" href="#footnote-14" target="_self">14</a></p></li><li><p>Service Center (announced 2023): application for inside sales, contact center, and hybrid reps that enables inbound and outbound engagement across channels [still in early development]</p></li><li><p>Campaign Manager (announced 2024): application for marketers to create and execute HCP campaigns [still in early development]</p></li></ul><p>Veeva also has a set of data products that tie mostly into the commercial suite, designed to optimize and enhance the S&amp;M function. Veeva calls this its &#8220;Data Cloud.&#8221;</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!xOI1!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3bd16504-109a-4abe-b282-1efe30f59b4b_999x560.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!xOI1!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3bd16504-109a-4abe-b282-1efe30f59b4b_999x560.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!xOI1!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3bd16504-109a-4abe-b282-1efe30f59b4b_999x560.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!xOI1!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3bd16504-109a-4abe-b282-1efe30f59b4b_999x560.png" width="999" height="560" 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3bd16504-109a-4abe-b282-1efe30f59b4b_999x560.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!xOI1!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3bd16504-109a-4abe-b282-1efe30f59b4b_999x560.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!xOI1!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3bd16504-109a-4abe-b282-1efe30f59b4b_999x560.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!xOI1!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3bd16504-109a-4abe-b282-1efe30f59b4b_999x560.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><ul><li><p>OpenData: global reference data of healthcare professionals (HCPs) and healthcare organizations (HCOs). It contains HCP names, addresses, contact information, specialty, compliance data (license information and industry identifiers), and affiliations (and is available in 100+ countries). I believe the vast majority of Veeva&#8217;s CRM customers also subscribe to OpenData.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-15" href="#footnote-15" target="_self">15</a></p></li><li><p>Link: deeper data on key accounts/key opinion leaders, etc. A &#8220;life science-specific LinkedIn on steriods&#8221;<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-16" href="#footnote-16" target="_self">16</a></p></li><li><p>Pulse: benchmarking data based on anonymized commercial activity across Veeva&#8217;s entire CRM customer base. Veeva is introducing the Pulse product within R&amp;D as well (for its applications that help manage clinical trials)</p></li><li><p>Compass: </p><ul><li><p>Compass Patient: Compass Patient is anonymous patient longitudinal data, including dispensed prescriptions and procedures and diagnoses for the U.S. market</p></li><li><p>Compass Prescriber: Compass Prescriber is projected prescriptions and procedures at the HCP, HCO and Zip level for retail and non-retail products. It covers more than 4,000 brands for the U.S. market</p></li><li><p>Compass National: Compass National is projected prescriptions and procedures at the state and national level for retail and non-retail products. It also covers more than 4,000 brands for the U.S. market.</p></li></ul></li></ul><p><em>Drug Development Systems</em></p><p>Starting in 2012, Veeva began introducing software for the drug development function. This function is basically entirely separate from commercial, so this was not an &#8220;add-on&#8221; product to its existing suite, but more of an exercise in &#8220;starting from scratch.&#8221;</p><p>Today, Veeva&#8217;s &#8220;development&#8221; revenue represents ~50% of its total revenue, and is expected to represent about 2/3rds of total revenue by 2030.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!tubx!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcab26d41-52fd-4318-bd2d-dc7dc4734d3c_1000x562.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!tubx!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcab26d41-52fd-4318-bd2d-dc7dc4734d3c_1000x562.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!tubx!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcab26d41-52fd-4318-bd2d-dc7dc4734d3c_1000x562.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" 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start="2"><li><p><em>Clinical Operations</em></p></li></ol><p>Veeva&#8217;s clinical operations suite helps life science companies build and execute clinical trials. </p><p>As you can see below, Veeva has steadily built a dominant position in the market. Veeva counts 19 eTMF customers and 17 CTMS customers in the top 20 as of Q1&#8217;FY26 (Veeva expects the final top 20 to select Veeva eTMF this year, per the Jun-25 William Blair conference). </p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!_ImM!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F98a6c6c0-42e1-49d4-8878-5fc298a68946_2056x1148.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!_ImM!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F98a6c6c0-42e1-49d4-8878-5fc298a68946_2056x1148.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!_ImM!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F98a6c6c0-42e1-49d4-8878-5fc298a68946_2056x1148.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!_ImM!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F98a6c6c0-42e1-49d4-8878-5fc298a68946_2056x1148.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!_ImM!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F98a6c6c0-42e1-49d4-8878-5fc298a68946_2056x1148.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!_ImM!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F98a6c6c0-42e1-49d4-8878-5fc298a68946_2056x1148.png" width="1456" height="813" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/98a6c6c0-42e1-49d4-8878-5fc298a68946_2056x1148.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:813,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:40592,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/161907035?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F98a6c6c0-42e1-49d4-8878-5fc298a68946_2056x1148.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!_ImM!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F98a6c6c0-42e1-49d4-8878-5fc298a68946_2056x1148.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!_ImM!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F98a6c6c0-42e1-49d4-8878-5fc298a68946_2056x1148.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!_ImM!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F98a6c6c0-42e1-49d4-8878-5fc298a68946_2056x1148.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!_ImM!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F98a6c6c0-42e1-49d4-8878-5fc298a68946_2056x1148.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Veeva&#8217;s first product in the suite was eTMF, introduced in 2012. eTMF, or electronic trial master file, is a content management platform for clinical trials. It houses all documents related to clinical trials, and provides full enterprise content management capabilities for upload, version control, QC/approval, and real-time co-authoring with Microsoft Office for study documents.</p><p>As of Q1&#8217;FY26, 19 of the top 20 pharmas use it (450+ customers total), as do at least 4 of the top 6 CROs. The success of eTMF formed an important beachhead within clinical ops.</p><p>Veeva followed up eTMF with CTMS (Clinical Trial Management System), introduced in 2017. CTMS acts as the hub for clinical trial monitoring and management (for both insourced and outsourced trials). CTMS was designed to work seamlessly with eTMF, and together they form the core set of applications needed for clinical ops. </p><p>Veeva&#8217;s broader clinical ops suite:</p><ul><li><p>Study Startup (announced 2015): manages the start-up activities of a clinical trial, including feasibility, qualification, and activation of research sites.</p></li><li><p>Site Connect (announced 2020): allows sponsors and research sites to collaborate on a trial by automating the flow of information to and from sites during start-up, execution, and closeout</p></li><li><p>Payments (announced 2020): manages reimbursements to research sites and tracks study budgets</p></li><li><p>RTSM (Randomization and Trial Supply Management; acquired in 2021): used by sponsors, CROs, and sites on clinical trials to randomize subjects and manage trial supplies</p></li><li><p>Study Training (announced 2022): manages GCP and study-specific training for research sites, CROs, and sponsor personnel. It provides document, video, and SCORM/AICC training, in addition to quizzes and classroom capabilities based on curricula and training requirements</p></li><li><p>Disclosures (announced 2023): manages the sharing of study registrations and results disclosures with registries</p></li><li><p>OpenData Clinical (announced 2023): provides compliant reference data on global investigators and research sites</p></li></ul><ol start="3"><li><p><em>Clinical Data Management</em></p></li></ol><p>Veeva&#8217;s clinical data management suite helps life science customers collect and process the data generated by a clinical trial. </p><p>This is an area of very high conservatism for life science customers, who are quite reluctant to move off of systems that work &#8220;well enough&#8221;. Yet as we can see below, after ~6 years of development, Veeva has seen a nice uptick in customers over the last few years.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!989R!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fad4a7a7c-1af7-48df-b835-c219e567de71_2056x1148.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!989R!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fad4a7a7c-1af7-48df-b835-c219e567de71_2056x1148.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!989R!, 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fad4a7a7c-1af7-48df-b835-c219e567de71_2056x1148.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!989R!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fad4a7a7c-1af7-48df-b835-c219e567de71_2056x1148.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>The EDC (Electronic Data Capture) application was the first product in the data management suite. Introduced in 2016, it was designed to tie into Veeva&#8217;s eTMF product. The EDC provides an end-to-end environment to collect, review, and process trial data about patients. The EDC served as a beachhead within the clinical data management space &#8212; similar to eTMF in clinical ops.</p><p>Veeva followed up EDC with CDB (Clinical Database) in 2018. The CDB aggregates, cleans, and transforms clinical data from all sources (including Veeva&#8217;s EDC, third-party EDCs, labs/imaging, ePRO, etc.). This creates a unified and harmonized dataset for a comprehensive view of trial data. It's an environment where the customer can clean and format their data so that it ultimately can be submitted to a health authority.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-17" href="#footnote-17" target="_self">17</a></p><p>Veeva&#8217;s eCOA (electronic Clinical Outcome Assessment) solution is the latest addition to the suite (announced in 2022). The eCOA captures questionnaire responses directly from clinical trial patients (ePRO), clinicians (eClinRO) or patient caregivers (eObsRO) using an app or webpage. Sponsors manage the eCOAs through their own interface, and a central library allows them to reuse eCOAs across studies, where appropriate. Sites have a simple access point to manage their participants and can review eCOA data and adherence.</p><ol start="4"><li><p><em>Regulatory &amp; Safety</em></p></li></ol><p>After a clinical trial wraps, a pharma company or trial &#8220;sponsor&#8221; must build a regulatory package, submit it to the health authorities and then continue to demonstrate that its drug is safe and efficacious post trial. Veeva&#8217;s Regulatory and Safety suites support these functions.</p><p>Similar to CDMS, Veeva has been steadily gaining share over time in its RIM (Regulatory Information Management) suite. In Safety, another area of extreme conservatism for life sciences customers, Veeva, just in Q4&#8217;FY25, doubled its number of top 20 customers from two to four.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!vobq!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0e3f1856-2f7e-408b-ad63-03844987fd82_2055x1148.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!vobq!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0e3f1856-2f7e-408b-ad63-03844987fd82_2055x1148.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!vobq!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0e3f1856-2f7e-408b-ad63-03844987fd82_2055x1148.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!vobq!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0e3f1856-2f7e-408b-ad63-03844987fd82_2055x1148.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!vobq!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0e3f1856-2f7e-408b-ad63-03844987fd82_2055x1148.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!vobq!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0e3f1856-2f7e-408b-ad63-03844987fd82_2055x1148.png" width="1456" height="813" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/0e3f1856-2f7e-408b-ad63-03844987fd82_2055x1148.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:813,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:38728,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/161907035?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0e3f1856-2f7e-408b-ad63-03844987fd82_2055x1148.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!vobq!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0e3f1856-2f7e-408b-ad63-03844987fd82_2055x1148.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!vobq!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0e3f1856-2f7e-408b-ad63-03844987fd82_2055x1148.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!vobq!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0e3f1856-2f7e-408b-ad63-03844987fd82_2055x1148.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!vobq!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0e3f1856-2f7e-408b-ad63-03844987fd82_2055x1148.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>The RIM suite started with Submissions which was announced in 2013. Like eTMF, this is a content management application. It is used to plan, author, review, and approve regulatory submissions. Veeva expanded the suite with: </p><ul><li><p>Submissions Archive (announced 2015): secure repository of applications submitted to health authorities</p></li><li><p>Submissions Publishing (announced 2017): generates electronic submissions for global health authorities</p></li><li><p>Veeva Registrations (announced 2015): allows sponsors to plan, track, and report on global product registrations as well as handle health authority correspondence and commitments</p></li></ul><p>Once drugs have been licensed for use, sponsors must continue to monitor their effects, especially in order to identify and evaluate previously unreported adverse reactions. This is a practice known as &#8220;pharmacovigilance.&#8221;</p><p>Veeva&#8217;s Safety applications operate as a unified pharmacovigilance system. Veeva Safety (announced 2019) is a individual case safety report (ICSR) management system that manages the intake, processing, and submission of adverse events for clinical and post-marketed products (also called Adverse Event Management). Other applications in the Safety suite include:</p><ul><li><p>SafetyDocs (announced 2019): content management for safety-related content and processes</p></li><li><p>Signal (announced 2020): tools for signal detection from various data sources, utilizing advanced statistical methods to identify potential safety issues</p></li><li><p>Safety Workbench (announced 2023): application designed for complex reporting and data analysis on large volumes of data within the safety suite</p></li></ul><ol start="5"><li><p><em>Quality</em></p></li></ol><p>The Quality suite relates to the drug manufacturing process. Once a drug is approved, a sponsor must ensure its manufacturing processes meet certain quality standards.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-18" href="#footnote-18" target="_self">18</a></p><p>Veeva, again, has generated strong momentum in the suite, with QualityDocs and more recently QMS winning over 50% of the top 20 pharmas as customers. The LIMS application, announced in 2021, I believe has yet to win a top 20 pharma customer.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!V6y6!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3cf4e103-d2e9-418f-bd8a-f90ebbae9c11_2055x1148.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!V6y6!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3cf4e103-d2e9-418f-bd8a-f90ebbae9c11_2055x1148.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!V6y6!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3cf4e103-d2e9-418f-bd8a-f90ebbae9c11_2055x1148.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!V6y6!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3cf4e103-d2e9-418f-bd8a-f90ebbae9c11_2055x1148.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!V6y6!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3cf4e103-d2e9-418f-bd8a-f90ebbae9c11_2055x1148.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!V6y6!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3cf4e103-d2e9-418f-bd8a-f90ebbae9c11_2055x1148.png" width="1456" height="813" 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3cf4e103-d2e9-418f-bd8a-f90ebbae9c11_2055x1148.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!V6y6!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3cf4e103-d2e9-418f-bd8a-f90ebbae9c11_2055x1148.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!V6y6!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3cf4e103-d2e9-418f-bd8a-f90ebbae9c11_2055x1148.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!V6y6!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3cf4e103-d2e9-418f-bd8a-f90ebbae9c11_2055x1148.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" 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y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>QualityDocs was Veeva&#8217;s first foray into the space, announced in 2013. QualityDocs is the industry-leading GxP quality content management application (for standard operating procedures, quality agreements, batch-related documentation, etc.), with 13 of the top 20 pharmas using the product as of Q1&#8217;FY26. </p><p>Following QualityDocs came QMS (Quality Management System) in 2016. QMS is a system designed to manage life sciences-specific quality processes.  It provides best practices for handling complaints, deviations, audits, and change control. It also allows external partners to access the system to collaborate on investigations, audit findings, and corrective actions.</p><p>LIMS (announced 2021; Laboratory Information Management System) is another key product in the suite, allowing customers to manage laboratory operations more efficiently and compliantly.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-19" href="#footnote-19" target="_self">19</a></p><p>Additional products in the Safety suite include:</p><ul><li><p>Training (announced 2018): a learning management system (LMS) designed for GxP compliance</p></li><li><p>Validation Management (announced 2021): streamlines commissioning, qualification, and validation activities across computerized systems, facilities, utilities, equipment, and processes</p></li><li><p>LearnGxP (acquired in 2021): an accredited training library that can be deployed with Veeva Training or other learning management system</p></li><li><p>Batch Release (announced 2023): automates aggregation, reviews, and traceability of batch-related data and content to enable faster, more confident GMP release and market-ship decisions</p></li></ul><div><hr></div><h2>Next ~5 Yr Opportunity </h2><p><em>My TL;DR view regarding the next five years is that I believe Veeva will gain significant share across the following large product categories: EDC/CDB, eCOA, RTSM, Safety, LIMS, QMS and CTMS. I believe these gains will power Veeva&#8217;s revenue from ~$3bn to ~$6bn by 2030.</em></p><p>It&#8217;s not an easily digestible bull case, but perhaps therein lies a bit of opportunity for investors. It&#8217;s a broad-based opportunity for Veeva across a number of areas that are (1) not easy to necessarily understand, (2) not the easiest to size from a TAM perspective and (3) subject to varying degrees of competition.</p><p><em>Management&#8217;s 2030 Revenue Target</em></p><p>But before examining, we should note that we actually have a management target for 2030 revenue (management provided one at their 2024 investor day).</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!CSEx!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffd1c565a-2d29-4f1c-971c-7b272c4e5af8_992x561.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!CSEx!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffd1c565a-2d29-4f1c-971c-7b272c4e5af8_992x561.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!CSEx!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffd1c565a-2d29-4f1c-971c-7b272c4e5af8_992x561.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!CSEx!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffd1c565a-2d29-4f1c-971c-7b272c4e5af8_992x561.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!CSEx!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffd1c565a-2d29-4f1c-971c-7b272c4e5af8_992x561.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Management believes Veeva will get to a $6bn revenue run rate by calendar year 2030 (~$4bn from R&amp;D and ~$2bn from Commercial). </p><p>And notably, management is batting 1000% when it comes to hitting long-range financial targets. They&#8217;ve previously laid out 2 long-range financial targets &#8212; $1bn in run rate revenue by 2020 (set in 2015) and $3bn in run rate revenue by 2025 (set in 2019). </p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!sbZp!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6ae72cd4-5f89-4b58-8b54-ef9cef3c8412_995x559.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!sbZp!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6ae72cd4-5f89-4b58-8b54-ef9cef3c8412_995x559.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!sbZp!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6ae72cd4-5f89-4b58-8b54-ef9cef3c8412_995x559.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!sbZp!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6ae72cd4-5f89-4b58-8b54-ef9cef3c8412_995x559.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!sbZp!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6ae72cd4-5f89-4b58-8b54-ef9cef3c8412_995x559.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!sbZp!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6ae72cd4-5f89-4b58-8b54-ef9cef3c8412_995x559.png" width="995" height="559" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/6ae72cd4-5f89-4b58-8b54-ef9cef3c8412_995x559.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:559,&quot;width&quot;:995,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:98074,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/161907035?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6ae72cd4-5f89-4b58-8b54-ef9cef3c8412_995x559.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!sbZp!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6ae72cd4-5f89-4b58-8b54-ef9cef3c8412_995x559.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!sbZp!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6ae72cd4-5f89-4b58-8b54-ef9cef3c8412_995x559.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!sbZp!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6ae72cd4-5f89-4b58-8b54-ef9cef3c8412_995x559.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!sbZp!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6ae72cd4-5f89-4b58-8b54-ef9cef3c8412_995x559.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Veeva achieved both targets about a year early.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-20" href="#footnote-20" target="_self">20</a></p><p><em>TAM Discussion</em></p><p>Handicapping growth by product area starts with a look at TAM by product area. </p><p>Veeva management outlines a TAM of $20bn across its current set of application areas. Within that, Commercial and Clinical (Ops + Data) represent TAMs of approximately $7bn each, Quality a TAM of $4bn and Regulatory &amp; Safety a TAM of $2bn. </p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!eYGq!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffbb77aba-dbd4-453b-90c0-584b13b1f73c_992x560.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!eYGq!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffbb77aba-dbd4-453b-90c0-584b13b1f73c_992x560.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!eYGq!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffbb77aba-dbd4-453b-90c0-584b13b1f73c_992x560.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!eYGq!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffbb77aba-dbd4-453b-90c0-584b13b1f73c_992x560.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!eYGq!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffbb77aba-dbd4-453b-90c0-584b13b1f73c_992x560.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!eYGq!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffbb77aba-dbd4-453b-90c0-584b13b1f73c_992x560.png" width="992" height="560" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/fbb77aba-dbd4-453b-90c0-584b13b1f73c_992x560.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:560,&quot;width&quot;:992,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:105892,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/161907035?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffbb77aba-dbd4-453b-90c0-584b13b1f73c_992x560.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!eYGq!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffbb77aba-dbd4-453b-90c0-584b13b1f73c_992x560.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!eYGq!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffbb77aba-dbd4-453b-90c0-584b13b1f73c_992x560.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!eYGq!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffbb77aba-dbd4-453b-90c0-584b13b1f73c_992x560.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!eYGq!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffbb77aba-dbd4-453b-90c0-584b13b1f73c_992x560.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" 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y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>While Veeva discloses TAM at a high level for each of its product areas, it does not at the application level. So we are left to make educated guesses here based on management commentary.</p><p>In terms of Veeva&#8217;s market share by application, management kindly broke this out for us in very nice detail at its latest investor day:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Ow_W!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff0728245-957e-4723-a9c9-6d0dc2e72e69_972x548.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Ow_W!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, 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y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Here is the commentary that came with the chart above, which summarizes some of management&#8217;s thoughts regarding its best medium-term opportunities:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;Zooming back out, this is now a broader view of Veeva's major product opportunities across the business. <strong>Five of our products are clear market leaders today, CRM, PromoMats, eTMF, Submissions and QualityDocs.</strong> Each of these were introduced more than 10 years ago, and they're some of our most mature products. Together, they account for more than half of our subscription revenue today, and they still have some room to grow. <strong>After those, we have a lot of products that are in or entering the reference selling stage, CTMS, QMS, Crossix, Link, EDC, Safety and Site Connect to name a few.</strong></em></p><p><em><strong>These products are the key drivers of the 2030 plan. And then there continues to be a strong pipeline of newer products that are closer to the early adopter phase, including Compass, eCOA, RTSM and LIMS.</strong></em></p><p><em>These products will continue to contribute through 2030, but more of their contribution will likely be after 2030.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>More color<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-21" href="#footnote-21" target="_self">21</a></p><p>Below we&#8217;ll try to piece together an understanding of which products are most likely to drive incremental revenue and by how much over the coming ~5 years. </p><p><em>EDC / CDB</em></p><p>Other than CTMS/QMS (more on those later), EDC/CDB is perhaps the easiest area of Veeva&#8217;s growth to handicap.</p><p>As you can see from the top 20 pharma chart, Veeva has already increased its top 20 customer count from ~2 as of Q2&#8217;FY23 to ~9 as of Q1&#8217;FY26. With 9 out of 20, by my math you are already at around a ~50% share. Yet as you can see from the market share chart above, Veeva&#8217;s EDC product is maybe 10% penetrated, and its CDB product less than that.</p><p>The reason being is that Veeva&#8217;s EDC/CDB contracts ramp over ~3-5 years, with minimal contributions in years ~1-2. So revenue from these customers has simply yet to show up in a material way in Veeva&#8217;s financials.  </p><p>From a Mar-24 Morgan Stanley Conference:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;So couldn't be happier in EDC. So as you mentioned, we have 8 of the top 20. So let me explain what that means. So that's 8 top 20 customers committing to starting all new clinical trials on Veeva's EDC software&#8230;Now these are structured typically by your enterprise customers as predefined multiyear ramping ELAs. <strong>So they'll start out small in year 1, and then they'll ramp year 2, 3, 4, it's usually 4 to 5 years before you get to terminal value. So those wins, those 5 over the last 12 months have not meaningfully contributed to our financials at this point</strong> but they will as you look out and they ramp in the future.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>And from Q1&#8217;FY25 earnings:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;On the EDC side, these are typically longer in terms of duration of the original arrangement. And <strong>the first couple of years of those arrangements are relatively small. So while there will be some contribution, I don't expect it -- us to see a material contribution there</strong>, and that's included in the guidance that we've given today.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>Therefore, Veeva might conservatively have 33% of this category&#8217;s revenue already locked up, without having to win a single new customer. And with the momentum Veeva has shown, it seems likely that 50% market share is a conservative estimate looking out to 2030 (which is the percentage I&#8217;m using in my forecast &#8212; more on that below).</p><p>Interestingly, this is an area where, despite Veeva&#8217;s strong momentum, it is dealing with one of it&#8217;s toughest competitors in Medidata. </p><p>Medidata was founded in 1999 and its flagship Rave EDC product became widely adopted by the life sciences industry, which helped replace paper-based clinical trial processes. Medidata went public with around $100m of revenue in 2009 and grew to ~$700m in revenue before being acquired by Dassault in 2019 (10-yr revenue CAGR of ~20%) for $5.8bn (~8.5x LTM revenue).</p><p>Veeva believes it is winning vs. Medidata and others due to having (1) a better EDC product (it&#8217;s a true cloud product and includes certain important functionality that Medidata and others do not), and (2) an integrated clinical ops and data management suite.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-22" href="#footnote-22" target="_self">22</a></p><p>Gassner sees a path to dominance in EDC. From Q1&#8217;FY26 earnings:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;You touched on the eTMF, and I'll just spend a little bit there. I'm really excited about that. The 19 top 20s, and we feel like we have a pretty good path to have 20 of the top 20 on eTMF&#8230;</em></p><p><em><strong>And I'm confident over time, actually, EDC will get there.</strong> I think &#8212; but it will take time. Today, we have 9 out of the top 20 are using our EDC. Now some of those are very early and those are multi-year ramp deals. I think we have a path to additional top 20s in EDC. I don't see anything imminent right away, but I'm sure customer success will get there over time because <strong>we have a structural advantage</strong>. People want to integrate a clinical platform from the clinical operations to clinical data management, even reaching out to the research sites.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>More color<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-23" href="#footnote-23" target="_self">23</a></p><p>I estimate EDC is a ~$1bn TAM, and together with CDB represent almost a quarter of the $7bn total Clinical TAM. Management has indicated that EDC is one of its largest single product categories on multiple occasions. </p><p><em>RTSM / eCOA</em></p><p>RTSM and eCOA are key elements of the clinical suite and represent very large product categories.</p><p>According to management, RTSM/eCOA are each roughly equivalent in size to EDC. From its Q4&#8217;FY25 earnings: </p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;Just to give a perspective, roughly speaking&#8230;EDC is one of our larger product line areas, larger opportunities, but <strong>RTSM is roughly equivalent to EDC. And eCOA, on its own, is roughly equivalent to EDC. So these are not small areas, they're big areas</strong>.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>In fact, RTSM may actually be larger than EDC, representing Veeva&#8217;s single largest category (ex Compass). From a Dec-24 Raymond James conference:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;On the clinical side, we talk a lot about EDC and CDMS and some of our legacy products in eTMF and CTMS, <strong>but RTSM kind of quietly is our largest single product area opportunity.</strong>&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>RTSM/eCOA haven&#8217;t been the strongest areas of focus yet for Veeva. Certain other apps are more &#8220;central&#8221; within clinical ops &#8212; namely eTMF, CTMS, EDC and CDB. Winning those categories are thus more helpful towards securing the entire suite. Additionally, RTSM and eCOA are areas of very high conservatism for life science customers. From Q4&#8217;FY24 earnings:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;RTSM and ePRO first, I would say, these are 2 areas where life sciences is going to be cautious. The randomization and trial supply management, that's very, very critical. If that's done incorrectly, you could have patient safety problems. You could wipe out a significant part of the investment in your whole trial. So they're going to be cautious. Companies are going to try some trials first and see how it goes, rightfully so. And in the ePRO area, the patient reported outcomes, that's a patient-facing thing. So again, they're going to be extra sensitive on that.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>But with Veeva now progressing well in the core areas of clinical ops and data, it is increasingly turning its focus to RTSM/eCOA. And as competing solutions get longer in tooth, and as Veeva&#8217;s products continue to mature, I believe Veeva will see material gains here. </p><p>One reason is that the competitive set is not strong. Unlike with EDC, Veeva management is not shy about slighting its competitors in RTSM/eCOA. Another reason is that the &#8220;suite effect&#8221; is especially motivating for customers in RTSM/eCOA because these applications work so closely with the EDC.</p><p>From Q4&#8217;FY24 earnings:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;Right now, <strong>the industry is not well served</strong>. If you look at the sort of, I would say, the professionalism of the ePRO [aka eCOA] applications out there or the RTSM applications out there, <strong>they're not of the level of professionalism of Veeva</strong>, of what Veeva is doing. Our products are getting there. So that's one thing, which is both the products and the services. </em></p><p><em>And then I think the real topper is the integration, the process integration, for example, between our RTSM and ePRO. We had a discussion last week with some clinical leaders at a top 20 pharma. And when we were discussing the integration that we will do between our RTSM and our EDC and how that affects the prescreening &#8212; the screening process and the ability to get patients into the right trials, <strong>this can be transformational</strong>.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>More support<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-24" href="#footnote-24" target="_self">24</a></p><p>Today, Veeva has essentially no market share in either RTSM or eCOA. I assume by 2030 Veeva can get to 20% share in each category. </p><p>I assume the TAM for RTSM is $1.2bn and the TAM for eCOA is $1bn.</p><p><em>Safety</em></p><p>Safety is similar to RTSM/eCOA in that (1) this is an area of very high conservatism for life sciences customers, and (2) according to management, the competitive set is not strong.</p><p>On conservatism, from Veeva&#8217;s 2022 investor day:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;I would say <strong>safety is maybe the most conservative area of life sciences</strong> because of what you're dealing with. And because if your safety system doesn't operate, your pharmaceutical company can actually be shut down. You can't operate without one. So it's super, super important&#8230;</em></p><p><em>[Let's take] our pharmaceutical CRM product. Historically, companies might start in one division or one region or country. Safety system is not like that because the interconnected nature of health authorities, it's literally one day, the whole system [is moved] over. </em></p><p><em>So that's why &#8212; <strong>if you talk about the stickiest of our systems ever, it may end up being our safety system</strong>&#8230;<strong>Customers know they're making a 20-year decision.</strong>&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>On the competitive set (and more on conservatism) from Veeva&#8217;s 2021 investor day:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;[Safety] is a big, complex area, and we're now in year 2. We launched into this space because <strong>there are 2 major incumbents that the industry is not satisfied with. They're looking for better execution and more innovation.</strong> </em></p><p><em>And safety is an incredibly important area. If the safety system goes down, the product stops being sold. The fact that we're bringing safety to the cloud is also important. <strong>It means our customers won't have to upgrade every time there's a regulation change, which is what they have to do today.</strong>&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>More on the competitive set, from a Dec-24 Raymond James conference:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;So safety is an area that's been dominated by 2 legacy providers, one that got acquired by a larger company, Oracle, and then one is more of an independent player, both kind of legacy on-premise type systems, trying to make the move to the cloud. We all know that, that's a very difficult transition to go from on-premise to cloud-based computing.</em></p><p><em>But it's also a &#8212; so <strong>the competitive environment, it's not as strong. It's a very old legacy model,</strong> but these are also systems that are very sticky, right? Once you get that safety system in place, <strong>you actually don't want to touch it a whole lot until the pain of maintaining and supporting and upgrading becomes so great that it's actually better to move.</strong> So there's a lot of conservatism in that space.</em></p><p><em>So as time goes on, those systems get older and our product has matured. And now our product is very mature, and we've added now a suite of products around the core safety area. So it used to be just Safety and then we added SafetyDocs. And now we have products around signal detection, being able to look at data outside of the industry and draw comparisons and try to predict the safety events and also analyzing and looking at your own internal company data.</em></p><p><em>So the suite of products, the maturity of the product offering has all come to create this kind of perfect storm that will play out over a number of years, right? I don't want to kind of over-index on how fast it's going to go, but we're executing well there. I feel good about that market. <strong>It feels like we're at a nice inflection point.&#8221;</strong></em></p></blockquote><p>Even more<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-25" href="#footnote-25" target="_self">25</a><a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-26" href="#footnote-26" target="_self">26</a><a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-27" href="#footnote-27" target="_self">27</a></p><p>This is an area where customers are reluctant to switch, but where Veeva will have an increasingly more compelling product vs. its competitors over time. Thus Veeva should gain share. Additionally, we seem to be on the cusp of a couple potential accelerants to Veeva&#8217;s market share gains. From Q2&#8217;FY25 earnings: </p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;Another accelerant, I would say, is as our EDC product gets more traction and we have customers start hooking our EDC product to our Safety product, <strong>there's significant savings there, significant savings.</strong> People can be re-purposed to do other things when that connection is done, so that would be &#8212; that would get noticed.</em></p><p><em>And there may be some type of breakthrough that could happen over time, too. Remember, this Safety [product] is on the Vault platform. So it has the complete flexibility of the Vault platform, including the Direct Data API. So what type of AI things can be done on top of that AI, that Direct Data API? What type of AI things?</em></p><p><em>That will be different than can be &#8212; what can be done on the legacy, and <strong>that might cause some type of a tipping point.</strong></em></p><p><em>I believe our strategy for Safety is quite good because we know what we're doing, and we're moving along. <strong>There are 2 legacy providers that won't be able to move along at some point and we have a structural advantage.</strong> I just don't know when that's going to start happening.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>Given (1) the benefits of integrating Safety &#8594; EDC (and Veeva&#8217;s growing number of EDC customers), (2) the outdatedness of the prevailing competitive offerings, and (3) the increasing strength of Veeva&#8217;s product (+ soon to be released AI functionality), this feels like another market where Veeva is on the cusp of inflecting market share towards 50%+ (from ~10% today per Veeva&#8217;s chart above). Adoption has been slow due to a very conservative approach from customers in this area, but I&#8217;d expect the dominoes to start falling relatively soon. Given the 2 top-20 customer wins in Q4&#8217;FY25, it may be happening now.</p><p>I estimate the entire Safety suite (including Signal, etc.) is ~$1.2BN of TAM and that Veeva can capture ~33% of it by 2030. Given they have 20% of the top 20 pharmas today, this seems very attainable. </p><p><em>LIMS</em></p><p>LIMS is another significant opportunity. </p><p>It resides within the Quality suite, integrating with QMS and QualityDocs. Veeva&#8217;s Quality suite has been taking share, and LIMS is a next step for those customers planning to standardize on Veeva across the suite.</p><p>From Q1&#8217;FY24 earnings:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;Quality is a big area for us&#8230;We set out to build that. We have the early plans of doing that for roughly 10 years ago, and it takes a long time to execute on that.</em></p><p><em>We're very excited. What's fueling the momentum there is customer success. First of all, these systems are not things you change out easily or lightly. Long implementations, and you don't do it unless you need to do it. So each customer has their own timeframe when their existing systems are running out of gas.</em></p><p><em><strong>I would say they're not investing much these days in their legacy systems because there's broad awareness that Veeva is probably a better alternative. I do get the feeling now for most customers, they think they probably will be going to Veeva for our core established products &#8212; training, QualityDocs, QMS. And the question is when?</strong> And then there's a lot of wait and see about our new products &#8212; Validation and LIMS. &#8216;Hey, is that product going to be real?&#8217;</em></p><p><em>&#8230;It's a long, long replacement cycle. When we talk about a long runway for growth ahead, those are the types of things, the seeds we've planted in, things like LIMS where we don't even have our first customer.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>LIMS currently has no top 20 pharma customers &#8212; however it is an essential application in the Quality suite. From its 2022 investor day:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;We're just looking for our first early adopters there [in LIMS], that's <strong>maybe the biggest application of them all in the quality area.</strong> That's for the workflow around testing &#8212; during and after the manufacturing process &#8212; quality controls, because when you're making a medicine that goes into the human body, you better believe that's tested rigorously, right, for I think, for very obvious reasons...&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>As this product matures, I expect Veeva will begin making inroads.</p><p>I estimate LIMS is a $1bn market (it&#8217;s the largest application within Quality &#8212; a $4bn market), and that Veeva will win 15% market share by 2030.</p><p><em>Summary</em></p><p>Below I lay out my application-level TAM estimates (as well as my estimated 5-year market share gains for Veeva). This is highly unofficial and built on assumptions layered upon assumptions. But I think it&#8217;s a helpful exercise nonetheless.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!RikK!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fceb5f7c6-b730-456f-af4c-aeec9bfe47d0_2824x2250.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!RikK!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fceb5f7c6-b730-456f-af4c-aeec9bfe47d0_2824x2250.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!RikK!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fceb5f7c6-b730-456f-af4c-aeec9bfe47d0_2824x2250.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!RikK!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fceb5f7c6-b730-456f-af4c-aeec9bfe47d0_2824x2250.png" width="1456" height="1160" 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fceb5f7c6-b730-456f-af4c-aeec9bfe47d0_2824x2250.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!RikK!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fceb5f7c6-b730-456f-af4c-aeec9bfe47d0_2824x2250.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!RikK!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fceb5f7c6-b730-456f-af4c-aeec9bfe47d0_2824x2250.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!RikK!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fceb5f7c6-b730-456f-af4c-aeec9bfe47d0_2824x2250.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>My current estimated Veeva market shares generally line up with the chart Veeva provided. The current revenue of ~$3bn those market shares imply lines up with Veeva&#8217;s current run rate revenue (including ~$1.5bn from commercial and ~$1.5bn from R&amp;D). </p><p>Based on my estimated 2030 market shares for Veeva, I get to an implied revenue of ~$6.2bn in 2030. Highlighted in yellow are the key product areas discussed above. The only areas not discussed are QMS/CTMS, where like EDC, the customers have already been won (17 of 20 in CTMS; 14 of 20 in QMS) but revenue ramps over time.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-28" href="#footnote-28" target="_self">28</a> The biggest drivers of growth are EDC/CDB, followed by Safety, QMS, CTMS, RTSM, eCOA, and LIMS.</p><p>To recap, I think the assumptions underlying this analysis are reasonably conservative:</p><ul><li><p>50% in EDC/CDB seems low given Veeva already has won 45% of the top 20 pharmas as we sit here today in mid 2025. A counter is that new customers ramp over 4-5 years</p></li><li><p>20% share for RTSM/eCOA seems reasonable given (1) Veeva&#8217;s momentum in the overall clinical suite, (2) the benefits of further standardizing on Veeva RTSM/eCOA and (3) the lack of competitive products in the space. A counter, again, is that these products will likely ramp over a number of years, similar to EDC</p></li><li><p>33% in Safety (across the whole Safety suite) despite (1) clear signs that Veeva market share is starting to inflect (20% of the top 20 pharmas are on the core safety product), (2) the lack of competitive products in the space, (3) the benefits of Safety integration with EDC (where Veeva is picking up share fast) and (4) the coming benefits from AI functionality (that competitors will very likely struggle to replicate)</p></li><li><p>I assume relatively little market share expansion in Commercial which might be overly conservative over a 5-year window</p></li><li><p>I&#8217;m assuming no growth in overall TAM over 5 years. In theory, TAM likely expands to ~$25BN or so from just industry growth. Including AI, perhaps much more than that</p></li></ul><p>While again, this exercise is highly imprecise/directional, I believe it provides comfort that Veeva can get to $6bn by 2030. These do not seem like heroic assumptions that get us there.</p><div><hr></div><h2>Beyond 5-Yr Opportunity</h2><p>After getting to $6bn in revenue, in order to continue to support a healthy multiple (anything like where it currently trades), the market would need to believe that significant growth was still in store. That might seem daunting for a vertical specific provider with already high market share ($6bn in revenue against a $20bn TAM would represent 31% market share in 2030).</p><p>But I actually think there is reason to believe that healthy growth could be sustained, even beyond 2030. The drivers of which are discussed below. Importantly, we&#8217;d be able to monitor these drivers in advance of becoming &#8220;reliant&#8221; on them.</p><p><em>Continued Growth of RTSM/eCOA/LIMS/Safety/EDC/CDB</em></p><p>Based on my estimates outlined above, I have RTSM/eCOA getting to ~20% market share, LIMS to ~15%, Safety to ~33%, and EDC/CDB to ~50%.</p><p>Once these markets begin to flip, I believe they are &#8220;leader-take-most&#8221; type of markets.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-29" href="#footnote-29" target="_self">29</a> Why buy from a competitor to Veeva if (1) the product is worse, (2) they are less incentivized than Veeva to make integrations work, and (3) they seem likely of falling only further behind as Veeva takes share.</p><p>You can see this effect in Veeva&#8217;s most mature categories &#8212; CRM and eTMF. Veeva completely dominates these categories, with 90%+ share across the top 20 pharmas.</p><p>Thus, I&#8217;d expect there to be continued material runway across these products, even after 5 years. </p><p><em>Compass</em></p><p>Compass is, by far, Veeva&#8217;s largest single-product opportunity. It is also the area in which Veeva finds its toughest competitor, by far, in IQVIA. </p><p>This market is effectively pharmaceutical sales data, which is pieced together through a variety of data sources. The industry relies on this data for many of its commercial processes (and some R&amp;D processes as well). The data helps companies do things like find prospective patients for a certain pharmaceutical product. It further helps identify the doctors who may be treating those patients so that a company&#8217;s commercial team can call on them. It's also used for things like incentive compensation (is a sales rep increasing share in a specific territory?) and sales team design (how large should a sales team be? how should rep territories be divvied up?).</p><p>Here&#8217;s an example use case from IQVIA&#8217;s 2024 investor day:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;A top 10 pharma client was launching its existing asset for a new rare renal condition. The condition is difficult to diagnose and patients are difficult to find. Given these challenges, our client wanted IQVIA's support <strong>to find accurate patient populations</strong> as opposed to relying on clinical literature alone. They also wanted us to help them <strong>identify the right physicians</strong> who would benefit most from being aware of this asset.</em></p><p><em>IQVIA deployed our AI-based analytics model to find undiagnosed patients, leveraging multiple connected data assets comprising nonidentified patient information from claims, EMR and lab data, to name a few.</em></p><p><em>We then applied IQVIA's superior AI algorithms on these data sets to lend characteristics of patients with this condition. Once the model validated patients, we enhanced it further by mapping to treating physicians. As a result, <strong>we were able to help our client identify 9,500 more HCPs with the potential to treat 25,000 more patients with this rare renal condition</strong>.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>IQVIA has been the dominant player in the space for decades. It is publicly traded &#8212; generating about half its revenue from technology/info solutions and the other half from its CRO (its actually the largest CRO in the world).</p><p>IQVIA&#8217;s CRO segment generated $8.5bn in revenue and $1.9bn in operating profits in 2024. The Technology &amp; Analytics Solutions (TAS) segment generated $6.2bn of revenue and $1.5bn of operating profit in 2024. The TAS segment has been growing in the low single digits.</p><p>The TAS segment is comprised of software applications, consulting services and a huge number of different data products. From 2024 investor day:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;A top 5 global pharma company is licensing <strong>630 unique IQVIA capabilities</strong> across 87 countries. Our information assets are <strong>used by thousands of their analysts, managers and executives worldwide</strong> and importantly, across multiple use cases, <strong>spanning prelaunch planning, market opportunity sizing, M&amp;A strategies, go-to-market activities and investor relations</strong>, just to name a few.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>I estimate the total TAM for this market is ~1/3rd of IQVIA&#8217;s overall TAS revenue (or ~$2bn). That would represent ~10% of Veeva&#8217;s overall TAM estimate of $20bn. Today, Veeva likely generates &lt;$25m from Compass despite having been focused on the category for ~5 years.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-30" href="#footnote-30" target="_self">30</a></p><p>Veeva launched Compass Patient in 2020. Five years later, in Jan-25, they introduced Compass Prescriber and Compass National. These latest two Compass products allow Veeva to, in theory, now offer a full replacement product for IQVIA. It&#8217;s the first time in decades there has been a competitive offering in the market. </p><p>Veeva is attempting to differentiate from IQVIA through:</p><ul><li><p>Better patient data. Veeva claims to take a &#8220;modern approach&#8221; to data collection. Using best-in-class technology (they would argue) they are able to collect data and synchronize it from many overlapping data sources &#8212; more data sources than IQVIA, presumably. They claim this leads to richer, more accurate patient-level data. IQVIA, on the other hand, seems to rely moreso on exclusive data relationships with certain national retail pharmacies (e.g. CVS, Walgreens, etc.). While this has led to a monopoly in the space for decades, Veeva has seemingly found a way around this, and perhaps this new way has its advantages.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-31" href="#footnote-31" target="_self">31</a><a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-32" href="#footnote-32" target="_self">32</a> </p></li><li><p>Faster data. Due to the way that Veeva collects data, Veeva is able to refresh its data daily (which IQVIA cannot, presumably). This seems like a not insignificant differentiator for certain types of customers. For a certain type of customer, the ability to act almost immediately as new opportunities arise (e.g. calling on a HCP the day after a certain diagnosis, etc.) should be important.</p></li><li><p>Integration with Veeva Software. This seems like it would ultimately be the biggest differentiator for Compass. Assuming Compass can arrive at some level of parity with IQVIA, then tightly integrating Compass with Veeva&#8217;s commercial software (where Veeva dominates) should be a clear differentiator.</p></li></ul><p>Veeva has been able to win brands within two top 20 pharmas but remains far from a full ELA. </p><p>There is little risk that Veeva would replace IQVIA on an existing brand. Customers would be very reticent to disrupt the commercial functions of a brand given its limited patent life. However, because all brands do come off patent eventually, it creates a natural churn and opportunities for Veeva to jump in on the next one.</p><p>Despite the difficult road ahead in Compass, Gassner nonetheless outlined a optimistic case on the Q4&#8217;FY25 earnings call:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;We haven't seen really a trend to ELAs yet. We're still on the brand by brand. I think that trend to ELAs, large enterprise ELAs, we might be a year or so out for that, <strong>but the trend is kind of inescapable</strong>.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>Paul Shawah (EVP Strategy) outlined a similarly optimistic outlook at the Jun-25 Baird conference:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;<strong>In many areas, our product is already the very best in the marketplace.</strong> And I say it that way because there's some &#8212; it varies by therapeutic area. But there's an incumbent in place and there's a lot of effort to switch out the incumbent even though you have a better data product, and you can prove that you have a better data product. So we have to prove this brand by brand.</em></p><p><em>It's the buying cycle in life sciences that takes time. You buy one brand, you establish success and you move on to the next one. And that's the cycle that we're going through right now. And we've seen some enterprise customers start small with one and then expand to multiple brands and then expand to an ELA. <strong>That's the pattern we're looking for, and I think that's what will play out over the next several years</strong>.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>We will be able to monitor Compass&#8217; progress over these next few years. An increasing number of brand wins, and eventually full ELA wins, would be great signs for Compass.</p><p>This market will be a slog<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-33" href="#footnote-33" target="_self">33</a>, but Veeva has had a tendency to overdeliver. </p><p><em>Commercial Reacceleration</em></p><p>The big recent development in the commercial suite, announced Dec-22, is that Veeva is moving its CRM off of the Force.com platform and onto its own internally developed one (the same platform that sits underneath the rest of their applications, called the &#8220;Vault&#8221; platform). As a result, all of Veeva&#8217;s CRM customers must migrate over from the &#8220;Veeva CRM&#8221; to what they are calling the &#8220;Vault CRM&#8221; by 2030. </p><p>This will likely cause somewhat of a pause in momentum on the commercial side of the business as customers focus on CRM migration. </p><p>The good news, however, is that by migrating off of the Salesforce platform, Veeva (1) will no longer pay Salesforce a royalty for use of the Force.com platform, (2) can now target MedTech customers on the commercial side (Veeva was prohibited under their agreement with Salesforce; MedTech is about a quarter of the life science industry<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-34" href="#footnote-34" target="_self">34</a><a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-35" href="#footnote-35" target="_self">35</a>) and (3) can now develop a marketing automation application (which will be called &#8220;Campaign Manager&#8221;) and a customer support application (which will be called &#8220;Service Center&#8221;). Again, Veeva was prohibited from doing this under their agreement with Salesforce.</p><p>Thus, we might see a reacceleration in commercial as we get closer to 2030. Campaign Manager and Service Center are substantial opportunities &#8212; I estimate ~$800m combined. And they are areas where smooth integrations with CRM, PromoMats and Crossix &#8212; areas where Veeva has huge market share &#8212; would make a great deal of sense. Further, the competing products in the space (Adobe, Salesforce) are not built specifically for life science, opening the door further for Veeva, which will tailor its solutions to the industry.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-36" href="#footnote-36" target="_self">36</a><a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-37" href="#footnote-37" target="_self">37</a> </p><p><em>Horizontal App</em></p><p>At its most recent investor day in Nov-24, Veeva announced that it was in the very early stages of building a strategy in &#8220;horizontal enterprise applications.&#8221; This was pretty surprising, as this new strategy would have nothing to do with its life science business.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!3FqQ!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6bf2b76a-90fd-42ce-ae3d-f83bbfdd414e_781x561.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!3FqQ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6bf2b76a-90fd-42ce-ae3d-f83bbfdd414e_781x561.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!3FqQ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6bf2b76a-90fd-42ce-ae3d-f83bbfdd414e_781x561.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!3FqQ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6bf2b76a-90fd-42ce-ae3d-f83bbfdd414e_781x561.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" 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much was revealed about it until Q1&#8217;FY26, when Veeva announced that its first horizontal application will target the CRM area. Veeva also announced that the application will likely be ready for pilot customers by year end. </p><p>Here&#8217;s additional color they provided from Q1&#8217;FY26 prepared remarks:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;<strong>We aren&#8217;t looking to develop a solution that&#8217;s just incrementally better</strong>. We are taking the hard and more rewarding path to <strong>deliver fundamentally new innovation to the market</strong>. Our success will be determined over the long term, but I am encouraged by our early progress.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>Veeva picking CRM seems like the best possible outcome &#8212; Veeva has a ton of CRM expertise and Gassner knows the Salesforce product/platform like none other (he led the Force.com platform team in its early days). Veeva seems to see an opening, where by building from scratch on a newer technology platform, they can offer a product that is fundamentally better than legacy offerings.</p><p>Below is commentary from Q4&#8217;FY25 earnings which provides some additional color: </p><blockquote><p>Gabriela Borges (Analyst)</p><p><em>&#8220;You made an earlier comment on your thinking around horizontal applications longer term and version 1 versus version 2. I'd love to hear your thoughts if you're willing to share them, what do you think the limitations are with the version 1, the cloud SaaS applications today? And where do you think version 2, from an innovation standpoint, could really shine?&#8221;</em></p><p>Peter Gassner (CEO)</p><p><em>&#8220;I don't think there's any one particular area. I think there's a core set of things [that are] better, stronger, faster, right? <strong>Accumulation of 5, 6, 7, 8 things that have been core learnings and then putting that together.</strong> And so when you put those together, it has a compounding effect, I would say that. <strong>Also, AI will change the user interfaces on the operating systems over time, not tonight, but sometime over the next 5 years, there'll be some fundamental change just in the way that the graphical user interface or the browser-based interface change things.</strong></em></p><p><em>I think a platform that's designed with that in mind, that knows, <strong>yes, it's going to be used as a core system of record -- some of us have heard this thing from the Microsoft CEO about these system of record applications, SaaS applications are going away. I don't believe that. I don't think any of our customers are removing their SAP application anytime in the next 100 years.</strong> But there is going to be a way to use AI to dip into multiple of these applications and add value, and that's going to be a critical component. I think the newer SaaS platforms are going to be designed with that in mind because it's obvious that's coming. I think it's pretty hard to retrofit, pretty hard.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>In a cursory review of the &#8220;AI-native&#8221; CRM landscape you have solutions like Clay in particular that do seem fundamentally better than legacy options. Many of these solutions might increasingly look like humans managing AI agents (AI finds a set of prospects for a campaign and drafts introductory emails &#8212; the user then edits &amp; sends &#8212; the AI then puts these prospects into your pipeline, tells you when to follow-up, etc.). From its commentary, Veeva seems to be sensing an opening in this type of vein. </p><p>When listening to Gassner describe the Vault platform, a lot of what they built would seem quite transferable to an AI-native platform.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-38" href="#footnote-38" target="_self">38</a> The Vault platform (1) is good at managing both data and content (documents, videos, etc.), (2) deals well with complex workflows, (3) is less relational database and more elasticsearch, (4) offers security down to the field level (which it calls &#8220;atomic security&#8221;). And more recently, Veeva has introduced the hyper-efficient Direct Data API, which will surely come with their new CRM offering.</p><p>I wouldn&#8217;t expect anything too material to come of this over the next five years, but it&#8217;s an important initiative whose trajectory should be monitored.</p><p><em>AI</em></p><p>Last but not least &#8212; AI. </p><p>As discussed below, the AI opportunity is a very interesting one for Veeva. I have AI in the beyond 5-year bucket, but I&#8217;d be surprised if we didn&#8217;t see the impact much sooner.</p><div><hr></div><h2>AI Opportunity</h2><p>Veeva&#8217;s advantages re AI:</p><ul><li><p><strong>Customers are stuck on Veeva. </strong>Super sticky, vertical-specific, system of record software</p></li><li><p><strong>Lot of rope to innovate.</strong> Significant customer goodwill + reputation for product excellence + high levels of regulation + decimated competitive landscape = Veeva will be given extensive time/opportunity to deliver on promise of AI</p></li><li><p><strong>Extensive application suites</strong></p><ul><li><p>For agents that need to dip into multiple different applications to achieve an outcome, that should be straightforward for Veeva </p></li><li><p>Veeva will have many AI opportunities across their set of 50+ applications</p></li></ul></li><li><p><strong>Significant &#8220;proprietary&#8221; customer data assets.</strong> Trial data; all documents from trials, safety, quality, regulatory; correspondence with regulators; sales correspondence; etc., etc. All well-organized on the Vault platform in the cloud. Competitors can&#8217;t access this data and are increasingly locked out as Veeva&#8217;s market share grows.</p></li><li><p><strong>Significant &#8220;proprietary&#8221; external data assets.</strong> All Link + Compass assets. This data is not at all easy to assemble &#8212; Veeva&#8217;s Compass offerings in particular took 5+ years to develop into just an initial version of a product (the only other group that has this data is IQVIA). Thus, like its internal data assets, these external data assets are highly proprietary in nature</p></li><li><p><strong>Collection of great product people who are steeped in life sciences</strong></p></li><li><p><strong>Business consulting arm.</strong> In a departure from the typical software business, within Veeva resides a business consulting arm. While this group was established pre AI, this is a fantastic capability for the post AI world, as Veeva will be able to provide in-house expertise to guide its customers through AI implementations. </p></li></ul><p>This is a very nice set of building blocks. </p><p>Veeva&#8217;s AI journey thus far:</p><ul><li><p>2015. Way back in 2015, Veeva introduced a product called CRM Suggestions. It was an embryonic form of AI, offering suggested actions to sales reps based on certain real-world patient activity.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-39" href="#footnote-39" target="_self">39</a></p></li><li><p>2019. At its 2019 investor day, Veeva discussed AI functionality it had already layered into its Safety product.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-40" href="#footnote-40" target="_self">40</a> </p></li><li><p>Oct-21. Veeva released its &#8220;TMF Bot,&#8221; which used a customer&#8217;s existing data to classify documents uploaded to its eTMF application &#8220;automatically, quickly and accurately&#8221;</p></li><li><p>Nov-22. When ChatGPT was released, Veeva seemed to recognize the importance/breakthrough nature of it, but I&#8217;d say expressed a more skeptical initial reaction.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-41" href="#footnote-41" target="_self">41</a></p></li><li><p>2023-2024. Over the next couple years, as the importance of AI became more apparent, Veeva&#8217;s AI strategy coalesced around a three-pronged plan: Veeva application &#8220;bots&#8221;, its Direct Data API, and an AI partner program. See below from its 2024 investor day:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!XgWK!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc56c60f1-8716-4cfa-96eb-69f6331d8694_998x560.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!XgWK!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc56c60f1-8716-4cfa-96eb-69f6331d8694_998x560.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!XgWK!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc56c60f1-8716-4cfa-96eb-69f6331d8694_998x560.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!XgWK!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc56c60f1-8716-4cfa-96eb-69f6331d8694_998x560.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!XgWK!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc56c60f1-8716-4cfa-96eb-69f6331d8694_998x560.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!XgWK!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc56c60f1-8716-4cfa-96eb-69f6331d8694_998x560.png" width="998" height="560" 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc56c60f1-8716-4cfa-96eb-69f6331d8694_998x560.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!XgWK!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc56c60f1-8716-4cfa-96eb-69f6331d8694_998x560.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!XgWK!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, 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y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><ul><li><p>Veeva application &#8220;bots.&#8221; In addition to &#8220;TMF Bot,&#8221; in Nov-24 Veeva announced &#8220;MLR Bot,&#8221; &#8220;CRM Bot&#8221; and &#8220;CRM Voice Control&#8221;. MLR Bot, which will sit within PromoMats, will perform quality checks before Medical, Legal, Regulatory (MLR) review and approval. MLR Bot will use a Veeva-hosted LLM, and accelerate MLR review by performing brand guidelines, market, channel, and editorial checks. CRM Bot embeds the LLM of a customer&#8217;s choice into Vault CRM to enable a range of tasks including pre-call planning, suggested actions, and recommended content. These &#8220;bots&#8221; will be available starting in late 2025.</p></li><li><p>Direct Data API. Veeva introduced its Direct Data API in Feb-25. The company characterizes it as a &#8220;new class&#8221; of API for easy, high speed access to Vault data without impacting application performance. Veeva claims it&#8217;s &#8220;up to 100 times faster than traditional APIs&#8221; and transactionally sound across large datasets. Through the API, a customer may &#8220;reliably extract full or incremental data to power AI applications, analytics, and system-to-system integrations.&#8221; According to management, the API took ~2.5 years to develop.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-42" href="#footnote-42" target="_self">42</a></p></li><li><p>AI partner program. Veeva launched its AI partner program in Apr-24, allowing partners to develop GenAI solutions that integrate seamlessly with Veeva applications.</p></li></ul></li><li><p>Apr-25. Veeva <a href="https://www.veeva.com/resources/announcing-veeva-ai/">announced</a> it&#8217;s most aggressive stance on AI to date. Starting in late 2025, Veeva announced that all of its applications will feature &#8220;AI Agents&#8221; and &#8220;AI Shortcuts.&#8221; My limited understanding is that the &#8220;AI Agents&#8221; will be like giving an LLM access to everything in your Veeva app. However, some of the Agents may have more advanced functionality. &#8220;AI Shortcuts&#8221; seem to allow users to customize the automation of certain repetitive processes/tasks.</p></li></ul><p><em>Illustrative AI Opportunities</em></p><p>Below are a few examples of how Veeva could potentially employ AI across its suite of solutions. </p><p><strong>Example #1: Safety Signal</strong></p><p>Veeva&#8217;s Safety suite offers &#8220;end-to-end&#8221; adverse event management. It handles AE intake, medical review, case processing, data analysis/signal detection and regulatory submissions within an unified system. Within its existing suite, Veeva has an application called Signal which helps mine the adverse event data a customer collects for &#8220;signals&#8221; that might indicate issues requiring further attention.</p><p>Applying modern AI capabilities within the Signal application would seem to present a clear opportunity for Veeva. Signal detection is the process of identifying potential safety concerns from vast, unstructured data sources such as clinical trials, EHRs, and spontaneous reports. Integrating ML tools into signal detection will improve the speed and accuracy of identifying potential safety signals. </p><p><strong>Example #2: Regulatory Content Writer</strong></p><p>In a clinical trial, as the final step before regulatory review, a sponsor must submit a clinical-study report. According to this McKinsey <a href="https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/life-sciences/our-insights/generative-ai-in-the-pharmaceutical-industry-moving-from-hype-to-reality#/">report</a>, drafting the clinical-study report typically requires eight or more weeks to complete. McKinsey believes that GenAI-based tools can cut this time almost in half by generating an &#8220;80 percent right&#8221; first draft &#8220;from the underlying protocol, statistical-analysis plan, and tables, listings, and figures &#8212; within minutes.&#8221; Medical writers would thus be freed up to focus on sections of the report that require &#8220;a more complex clinical interpretation.&#8221;</p><p>Veeva is exceptionally well positioned to offer a GenAI-powered regulatory content writer. Veeva not only holds a huge repository of these reports in its Submissions Archive that would help train such a writer. But it also manages all trial information/data across eTMF/CTMS/CDB/etc. that would need to be accessed to draft these documents. </p><p>At its May-25 commercial summit, in his keynote, Gassner actually mentioned that Veeva was indeed working on &#8220;an authoring bot in regulatory.&#8221; I believe an AI-powered writer could be used not only in the drafting of initial reports, but also in the back-and-forth correspondence that follows between a sponsor and its regulatory agencies.</p><p><strong>Example #3: Clinical Trial &#8220;Co-Pilot&#8221;</strong></p><p>The McKinsey study summarizes this opportunity well:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;Gen AI can rapidly analyze vast quantities of structured and unstructured data. It is therefore a powerful study-team companion, which can share insights and suggest effective interventions to improve the outcomes of clinical trials. Several best-in-class pharmacos have already created &#8220;clinical control towers&#8221;&#8212;advanced analytics platforms that support operational decision making during clinical development by providing a single source of insights to speed up clinical trials. These AI co-pilots accelerate the trials by empowering study teams in at least three important ways: conversational AI capabilities provide tailored, actionable insights in an engaging format; smart alerts promote proactive, early interventions; and the automatic drafting of communications makes coordination with cross-functional team members more effective. These tools also promise to speed enrollment by automating analyses, proactively addressing enrollment challenges, and boosting collaboration.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>Given Veeva provides the &#8220;control tower&#8221; application in CTMS, controls the trial data in its CDB, can control the collection of the data through EDC/eCOA, etc., etc., the company is in an ideal position to provide &#8220;co-pilot&#8221; functionality. A co-pilot would need to seamlessly dip into all these applications to maximize its usefulness. </p><p>Veeva is already in the process of releasing a Pulse product for clinical trials, which would be another key building block for a co-pilot product.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-43" href="#footnote-43" target="_self">43</a></p><p><strong>Example #4: CRM &#8220;Co-Pilot&#8221;</strong></p><p>Veeva has already announced a CRM Bot, available in late 2025. This will feature &#8220;proactive recommendations and insights, including suggested actions with one-click execution, and content to streamline tasks and enhance productivity.&#8221; </p><p>What&#8217;s interesting here is Veeva already has its CRM Pulse product, which is an analytics engine powered by the activity of its CRM customers. Amongst other things, the pulse product can:</p><ul><li><p>See errors and gaps in targeting and engagement processes by comparing to industry averages</p></li><li><p>Know which HCPs reps should see, but aren&#8217;t</p></li><li><p>Know which HCPs reps shouldn&#8217;t see</p></li><li><p>Identify the best channels and frequency for engagement</p></li><li><p>Understand field team productivity vs. the industry</p></li></ul><p>These types of insights would be highly useful if made available in a co-pilot/bot product.</p><p>But another very interesting opportunity would be to tie/attribute salesforce activity to actual real-world outcomes using Veeva&#8217;s Compass products.</p><p>The Compass products provide visibility into patient and HCP activity within the U.S. healthcare system. By &#8220;closing the loop&#8221; from salesforce activity to real outcomes, Veeva could build an AI engine that would be extremely effective as well as extremely difficult to replicate by a competitor.</p><p><em>Path Ahead</em></p><p>Adding these types of capabilities to its products should only increase Veeva&#8217;s differentiation. They would make Veeva&#8217;s products better, and I don&#8217;t think they&#8217;d be easily replicated by competitors.</p><p>In fact, you could envision scenarios where these models create self-reinforcing flywheels &#8212; where greater use of say a Regulatory Content Writer makes it better over time, which then attracts even greater usage.</p><p>Materially better products &#8212; if nothing else &#8212; would in theory lead to faster market share gains.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-44" href="#footnote-44" target="_self">44</a> If you are a large pharma company that cannot use Veeva&#8217;s AI-powered authoring bot, spending weeks instead of minutes drafting clinical reports, you&#8217;ll be at a real disadvantage. It would create a strong impetus to adopt not only Veeva&#8217;s RIM suite but perhaps also its clinical ops and clinical data suites, which would need to be tapped into to draft these documents.</p><p><em>AI TAM</em></p><p>According to the McKinsey <a href="https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/life-sciences/our-insights/generative-ai-in-the-pharmaceutical-industry-moving-from-hype-to-reality#/">report</a> referenced above, it expects GenAI to produce between $60-100bn in annual value for the industry. Most of this value falls within areas where Veeva is the key technology provider (all but &#8220;research and early discovery&#8221; below).</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!qChw!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F7f760562-c4dc-4038-91bb-3a79bce40a14_582x491.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!qChw!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F7f760562-c4dc-4038-91bb-3a79bce40a14_582x491.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!qChw!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F7f760562-c4dc-4038-91bb-3a79bce40a14_582x491.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!qChw!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F7f760562-c4dc-4038-91bb-3a79bce40a14_582x491.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!qChw!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F7f760562-c4dc-4038-91bb-3a79bce40a14_582x491.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!qChw!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F7f760562-c4dc-4038-91bb-3a79bce40a14_582x491.png" width="582" height="491" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/7f760562-c4dc-4038-91bb-3a79bce40a14_582x491.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:491,&quot;width&quot;:582,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:103291,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/161907035?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F7f760562-c4dc-4038-91bb-3a79bce40a14_582x491.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!qChw!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F7f760562-c4dc-4038-91bb-3a79bce40a14_582x491.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!qChw!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F7f760562-c4dc-4038-91bb-3a79bce40a14_582x491.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!qChw!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F7f760562-c4dc-4038-91bb-3a79bce40a14_582x491.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!qChw!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F7f760562-c4dc-4038-91bb-3a79bce40a14_582x491.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>If we take the low-end estimate of $45bn ($60bn ex &#8220;research and early discovery&#8221;), and cut it by two-thirds, that would equate to a TAM expansion of $15bn. This would almost double Veeva&#8217;s current TAM of ~$20bn.</p><p>Here is a more detailed summary of potential value creation opportunities within just the clinical development function, from another McKinsey <a href="https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/life-sciences/our-insights/unlocking-peak-operational-performance-in-clinical-development-with-artificial-intelligence">report</a>:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!dfX5!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4770ee74-0d03-4ee1-b2a6-233f98c3ecf0_508x566.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!dfX5!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4770ee74-0d03-4ee1-b2a6-233f98c3ecf0_508x566.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!dfX5!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4770ee74-0d03-4ee1-b2a6-233f98c3ecf0_508x566.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!dfX5!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4770ee74-0d03-4ee1-b2a6-233f98c3ecf0_508x566.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!dfX5!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4770ee74-0d03-4ee1-b2a6-233f98c3ecf0_508x566.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!dfX5!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4770ee74-0d03-4ee1-b2a6-233f98c3ecf0_508x566.png" width="678" height="755.4094488188977" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/4770ee74-0d03-4ee1-b2a6-233f98c3ecf0_508x566.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:566,&quot;width&quot;:508,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:678,&quot;bytes&quot;:141621,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/161907035?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4770ee74-0d03-4ee1-b2a6-233f98c3ecf0_508x566.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!dfX5!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4770ee74-0d03-4ee1-b2a6-233f98c3ecf0_508x566.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!dfX5!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4770ee74-0d03-4ee1-b2a6-233f98c3ecf0_508x566.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!dfX5!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4770ee74-0d03-4ee1-b2a6-233f98c3ecf0_508x566.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!dfX5!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4770ee74-0d03-4ee1-b2a6-233f98c3ecf0_508x566.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Perhaps the most bullish data point for AI came on Veeva&#8217;s latest Q1&#8217;FY26 earnings call, where Gassner made the following statement:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;I'm very bullish about what Veeva can bring with AI for the life sciences industry. <strong>I think if you look over the next 3, 4, 5 years out to 2030, I think Veeva can help increase life sciences efficiency by 15% or so with Veeva AI.</strong> That's a huge number when you look at that. So I really think it will be a step change.</em></p><p><em>Why am I so bullish on it? Because Veeva has the core applications, and we're building the AI very deeply embedded in the core applications. So when we build AI, we're not building a generic AI. We're building a medical legal regulatory approval agent, a CRM agent that does pre-call planning, a safety AI agent that can transcribe pretext into a safety case, so deep AI applications. And you need the deep core applications and the AI working together.</em></p><p><em>And that's where the magic will happen. <strong>It's just very, very, very clear to me.</strong> That's what I'm excited about.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>A 15% increase in efficiency applied to a $2 trillion industry is a whole lot of efficiencies &#8212; around $300bn, in theory. If we say Veeva captures just 10% of that, that would represent something like a $30bn expansion to its TAM.</p><p>While this sounds hyperbolic, there might be no one on earth better qualified than Gassner to understand this, and Gassner generally isn&#8217;t someone who&#8217;s prone to hyperbole. </p><div><hr></div><h2>How High Will Margins Go?</h2><p>Veeva&#8217;s GAAP operating margins have improved by ~500 bps over the last ~10 years, going from around ~19% (FY10-FY15 average) to around ~24% (FY21-FY25 average). Veeva&#8217;s non-GAAP operating margins have improved by ~1,800 bps (21% &#8594; 39%), with the 1,300 delta between GAAP and non-GAAP being SBC.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!KgcQ!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3c6814bf-274b-47ee-b66f-531fdbd3eb7e_1672x1353.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!KgcQ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3c6814bf-274b-47ee-b66f-531fdbd3eb7e_1672x1353.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!KgcQ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3c6814bf-274b-47ee-b66f-531fdbd3eb7e_1672x1353.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!KgcQ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3c6814bf-274b-47ee-b66f-531fdbd3eb7e_1672x1353.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!KgcQ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3c6814bf-274b-47ee-b66f-531fdbd3eb7e_1672x1353.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!KgcQ!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3c6814bf-274b-47ee-b66f-531fdbd3eb7e_1672x1353.png" width="724" height="585.7637362637363" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/3c6814bf-274b-47ee-b66f-531fdbd3eb7e_1672x1353.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1178,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:724,&quot;bytes&quot;:172934,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/161907035?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3c6814bf-274b-47ee-b66f-531fdbd3eb7e_1672x1353.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!KgcQ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3c6814bf-274b-47ee-b66f-531fdbd3eb7e_1672x1353.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!KgcQ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3c6814bf-274b-47ee-b66f-531fdbd3eb7e_1672x1353.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!KgcQ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3c6814bf-274b-47ee-b66f-531fdbd3eb7e_1672x1353.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!KgcQ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3c6814bf-274b-47ee-b66f-531fdbd3eb7e_1672x1353.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>I think Veeva can generate an additional ~800 bps of non-GAAP (~1,000 bps of GAAP) margin improvement over the next 5 years.</p><p><em>Gross Margins</em></p><p>Gross margins have increased from ~58% (FY11-FY15 average) to ~72% (FY21-FY25 average). That&#8217;s ~1,400 bps total over ~10 years, or ~140 bps per year.</p><p>This was a result of (1) increased subscription gross margins, driven by a shift away from the Force.com platform (or from commercial revenue to R&amp;D revenue):</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!vAD6!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F632b63df-ecd5-49cc-8f54-f5c223c99f7a_1671x1353.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!vAD6!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F632b63df-ecd5-49cc-8f54-f5c223c99f7a_1671x1353.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!vAD6!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F632b63df-ecd5-49cc-8f54-f5c223c99f7a_1671x1353.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!vAD6!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F632b63df-ecd5-49cc-8f54-f5c223c99f7a_1671x1353.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!vAD6!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F632b63df-ecd5-49cc-8f54-f5c223c99f7a_1671x1353.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!vAD6!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F632b63df-ecd5-49cc-8f54-f5c223c99f7a_1671x1353.png" width="724" height="586.260989010989" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/632b63df-ecd5-49cc-8f54-f5c223c99f7a_1671x1353.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1179,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:724,&quot;bytes&quot;:203681,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/161907035?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F632b63df-ecd5-49cc-8f54-f5c223c99f7a_1671x1353.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!vAD6!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F632b63df-ecd5-49cc-8f54-f5c223c99f7a_1671x1353.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!vAD6!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F632b63df-ecd5-49cc-8f54-f5c223c99f7a_1671x1353.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!vAD6!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F632b63df-ecd5-49cc-8f54-f5c223c99f7a_1671x1353.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!vAD6!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F632b63df-ecd5-49cc-8f54-f5c223c99f7a_1671x1353.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>And (2) increasing subscription revenue (which carries a higher GM; see above) as a % of overall revenue:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!HNIb!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F22562795-a664-43e1-927e-28f30cc94bbf_1668x1357.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!HNIb!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F22562795-a664-43e1-927e-28f30cc94bbf_1668x1357.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!HNIb!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F22562795-a664-43e1-927e-28f30cc94bbf_1668x1357.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!HNIb!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F22562795-a664-43e1-927e-28f30cc94bbf_1668x1357.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!HNIb!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F22562795-a664-43e1-927e-28f30cc94bbf_1668x1357.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!HNIb!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F22562795-a664-43e1-927e-28f30cc94bbf_1668x1357.png" width="1456" height="1185" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/22562795-a664-43e1-927e-28f30cc94bbf_1668x1357.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1185,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:154451,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/161907035?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F22562795-a664-43e1-927e-28f30cc94bbf_1668x1357.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!HNIb!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F22562795-a664-43e1-927e-28f30cc94bbf_1668x1357.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!HNIb!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F22562795-a664-43e1-927e-28f30cc94bbf_1668x1357.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!HNIb!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F22562795-a664-43e1-927e-28f30cc94bbf_1668x1357.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!HNIb!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F22562795-a664-43e1-927e-28f30cc94bbf_1668x1357.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>GMs should continue to increase. Subscription revenue as a % of overall is expected to continue to increase, which will be one factor. Another will be that on the subscription side, Veeva will benefit materially from the discontinuation of the royalty it pays to Salesforce for use of the Force.com platform. As discussed, Veeva is moving its customers from Veeva CRM (built on the Force.com platform) to Vault CRM (built on Veeva&#8217;s Vault platform) over the next five years (with a hard cut-off in 2030).</p><p>Veeva still generates some ~30% of its subscription revenue on the Force.com platform (see below, from its Nov-22 investor day).</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!i0eB!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F13549919-38cb-434a-acc9-cc0bba8dc984_808x452.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!i0eB!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F13549919-38cb-434a-acc9-cc0bba8dc984_808x452.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!i0eB!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F13549919-38cb-434a-acc9-cc0bba8dc984_808x452.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!i0eB!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F13549919-38cb-434a-acc9-cc0bba8dc984_808x452.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!i0eB!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F13549919-38cb-434a-acc9-cc0bba8dc984_808x452.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!i0eB!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F13549919-38cb-434a-acc9-cc0bba8dc984_808x452.png" width="604" height="337.8811881188119" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/13549919-38cb-434a-acc9-cc0bba8dc984_808x452.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:452,&quot;width&quot;:808,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:604,&quot;bytes&quot;:98743,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/161907035?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F13549919-38cb-434a-acc9-cc0bba8dc984_808x452.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!i0eB!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F13549919-38cb-434a-acc9-cc0bba8dc984_808x452.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!i0eB!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F13549919-38cb-434a-acc9-cc0bba8dc984_808x452.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!i0eB!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F13549919-38cb-434a-acc9-cc0bba8dc984_808x452.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!i0eB!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F13549919-38cb-434a-acc9-cc0bba8dc984_808x452.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>GMs are materially lower on this piece of its business vs. its in-house Vault platform. From a 2018 Deutsche Bank conference:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;The one thing that I would say as you sort of walk up the P&amp;L from operating margin to gross margin, that you know, Karl, but it's important to make sure people understand as well, is <strong>there is a material difference in subscription gross margin between Vault and CRM</strong>, and Vault is better than CRM because of the royalty that we pay Salesforce because we built CRM on the Force.com. So the way that I think about it is we sort of have R&amp;D dollars that are up in cost of goods sold in the form of a royalty to CRM. <strong>So CRM gross margin subs is probably in the 70, 72, 73 range where Vault gross margin is much closer to what you would consider to be pure SaaS gross margins up in the sort of higher 80s and maybe even dipping into the 90s.</strong>&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>Additional support.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-45" href="#footnote-45" target="_self">45</a></p><p>If we assume 25% of current revenue is generated from the Force.com platform, and assume a 75% GM on this conservatively, then in order to back into Veeva&#8217;s overall FY25 86% subscription GM, this would imply the non-Force.com subscription revenue is generating a 90% GM. This would be in line with best-in-class subscription software GMs &#8212; e.g. Autodesk at ~91%, Adobe at ~91%.</p><p>Thus I expect subscription GMs to expand steadily from 2025 to 2030 as the Force.com royalty tapers off, and to ultimately rise to 89% by FY30 (i.e. the overall subscription GM will converge to Vault&#8217;s subscription GM).</p><p>Another factor that should benefit GMs is a return of services GMs from, I believe, trough-ish levels of late to levels more consistent with historical averages. Per the chart above, services margins were 18% in FY25 vs. a FY14-FY21 average of 23%.</p><p>Services revenue has slowed as a result of industry-wide headwinds in life sciences. Compounding this issue, the company generally hasn&#8217;t done layoffs to match supply with demand. In fact, Veeva generally does the opposite of this type of thing &#8212; seeking rather to bring in talent that&#8217;s shaken loose from competitors during such periods. Further, given the large number of Veeva-CRM-to-Vault-CRM migration projects that will be required over the next 5 years, the company might be building up its services ranks ahead of this.</p><p>I assume services margins recover to 21% by FY30 (still below long-term average).</p><p>The management team has always prided itself on generating a healthy services margin. This quote from its 2022 investor day sums it up:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;I'll also call out our services margins. Services and business consulting are about 20% of our revenue and <strong>run consistently at margins above 25%</strong>. It is common for software companies to have unprofitable services units. <strong>Veeva doesn't do that. We have discipline in our services and business consulting practices and run them at healthy margins.</strong> </em></p><p><em>Business consulting margins are expected to be somewhat higher than services margins over time due to the strategic and data-driven nature of the work.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>Another quote.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-46" href="#footnote-46" target="_self">46</a> </p><p>I don&#8217;t believe they&#8217;ve changed their approach.</p><p>In all, I project services GMs to recover to 21%, subscription GMs to climb to 89%, and subscription revenue as a % of overall to increase to 87%. This results in an overall GM of ~81% by FY29 vs. ~76% today, or a ~450 bps improvement.</p><p><em>Operating Expenses</em></p><p>GAAP operating expenses as a % of revenue have gone in the opposite direction of GMs. They have increased over time, from ~40% (2010-2014 average) to ~49% (2020-2024 average).</p><p>Responsible for all of increase (and then some) has been R&amp;D, which has increased from ~13% to ~25%, or ~1,275 bps. Meanwhile, S&amp;M has fallen from ~20% to ~14%, or -525 bps. G&amp;A has been flat at ~10% of revenue.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!hU1R!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4027840c-6403-4d15-8e41-1bff009d71f5_1680x1353.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!hU1R!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4027840c-6403-4d15-8e41-1bff009d71f5_1680x1353.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!hU1R!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4027840c-6403-4d15-8e41-1bff009d71f5_1680x1353.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!hU1R!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4027840c-6403-4d15-8e41-1bff009d71f5_1680x1353.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!hU1R!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4027840c-6403-4d15-8e41-1bff009d71f5_1680x1353.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!hU1R!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4027840c-6403-4d15-8e41-1bff009d71f5_1680x1353.png" width="1456" height="1173" 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4027840c-6403-4d15-8e41-1bff009d71f5_1680x1353.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!hU1R!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4027840c-6403-4d15-8e41-1bff009d71f5_1680x1353.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!hU1R!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4027840c-6403-4d15-8e41-1bff009d71f5_1680x1353.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!hU1R!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4027840c-6403-4d15-8e41-1bff009d71f5_1680x1353.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p><em>S&amp;M</em></p><p>I expect S&amp;M to continue to go lower. Unlike 10 years ago, Veeva is now the industry standard (in both commercial and R&amp;D). Everyone knows Veeva, and they can leverage this reputation across a huge set of offerings. Here&#8217;s Gassner from Q4&#8217;FY25:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;As we get more products, as you know, the field tends to get a little bit more efficient, right? There's relationships you can leverage. Sometimes there's a broader decision made rather than fixed [smaller] decisions. So that's where efficiencies in the field come. Also, every year, and we have to keep it up, but every year, if we execute well, we develop more trust. And when you develop more trust, that translates into more efficient sales because communication is higher fidelity.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>In fact, two large pharmas (Merck and BI) recently formed strategic partnerships with Veeva, essentially agreeing to standardize on the Veeva suite wherever Veeva has products. These customers have gone &#8220;all-in&#8221; on Veeva products without virtually any need for continued S&amp;M, in theory. </p><p>Going forward I project ~30 bps of annual leverage to S&amp;M, which is a little lower than the historical trend.</p><p><em>R&amp;D</em></p><p>While R&amp;D has increased dramatically as a % of revenue over time, I think it will taper down going forward.</p><p>The company has spent the last 10 years dramatically building out its suite of applications (see unofficial chart below). Many of these applications are very complex, and have yet to generate any meaningful revenue (e.g. Compass, eCOA, RTSM, LIMS, EDC/CDB, Safety).</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Ak_l!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fce481a1f-5077-4c85-a934-8e3c3ba45f13_2550x1534.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Ak_l!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fce481a1f-5077-4c85-a934-8e3c3ba45f13_2550x1534.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Ak_l!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fce481a1f-5077-4c85-a934-8e3c3ba45f13_2550x1534.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Ak_l!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fce481a1f-5077-4c85-a934-8e3c3ba45f13_2550x1534.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Ak_l!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fce481a1f-5077-4c85-a934-8e3c3ba45f13_2550x1534.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Ak_l!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fce481a1f-5077-4c85-a934-8e3c3ba45f13_2550x1534.png" width="1456" height="876" 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fce481a1f-5077-4c85-a934-8e3c3ba45f13_2550x1534.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Ak_l!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fce481a1f-5077-4c85-a934-8e3c3ba45f13_2550x1534.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Ak_l!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fce481a1f-5077-4c85-a934-8e3c3ba45f13_2550x1534.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Ak_l!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fce481a1f-5077-4c85-a934-8e3c3ba45f13_2550x1534.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" 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other words, the company has been soldiering through an extended period of heavy R&amp;D investment. From an Aug-17 SaaStr conference:</p><blockquote><p><em>Interviewer</em></p><p><em>&#8220;There's sort of two models that people come to in SaaS. Does revenue drive headcount or does headcount drive revenue? And it sounds like you're squarely in the former camp that you derive headcount from revenue.&#8221;</em></p><p><em>Peter Gassner</em></p><p><em>&#8220;No, no, I actually drive revenue from headcount&#8230;Any revenue that's generated in Veeva is because of people. <strong>If you want revenue four years from now, you&#8217;ve got to hire those people now.</strong> We're starting up a brand new, probably our biggest product area to date, and this year we hired 30 people [to build it]. Those people [will] produce real good revenue for Veeva four or five years down the road &#8212; that's when that [product] will be a hundred plus million dollar business, but you&#8217;ve got to hire them now&#8230;</em></p><p><em><strong>Product has a four-year cooking cycle</strong>, right? It's like a soup - they're like oh my God I want to eat it. [I can&#8217;t until] four years from now? I&#8217;ve got to start cooking it now? That's not good! But yeah, product takes a long time.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>I don&#8217;t think this level of investment can continue simply because Veeva&#8217;s running out of major life science apps they can build. Thus, I expect Veeva to transition from a heavy &#8220;investment mode&#8221; to more of a &#8220;harvest mode&#8221; over the coming years. </p><p>You can see the signs of this transition in the company&#8217;s employee count, which has slowed dramatically over the last two years:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!fNU8!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F62da8ef6-2387-4335-99e0-5d7d3aa575ad_2084x1131.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!fNU8!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F62da8ef6-2387-4335-99e0-5d7d3aa575ad_2084x1131.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!fNU8!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F62da8ef6-2387-4335-99e0-5d7d3aa575ad_2084x1131.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!fNU8!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F62da8ef6-2387-4335-99e0-5d7d3aa575ad_2084x1131.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!fNU8!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F62da8ef6-2387-4335-99e0-5d7d3aa575ad_2084x1131.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!fNU8!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F62da8ef6-2387-4335-99e0-5d7d3aa575ad_2084x1131.png" width="1456" height="790" 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F62da8ef6-2387-4335-99e0-5d7d3aa575ad_2084x1131.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!fNU8!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F62da8ef6-2387-4335-99e0-5d7d3aa575ad_2084x1131.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!fNU8!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F62da8ef6-2387-4335-99e0-5d7d3aa575ad_2084x1131.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!fNU8!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F62da8ef6-2387-4335-99e0-5d7d3aa575ad_2084x1131.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" 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y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Another reason we should see leverage in R&amp;D is because Veeva has developed all these products on top of the same Vault platform which creates economies of scale. Here&#8217;s Gassner from Q4&#8217;25:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;On the product side, there's more of a mathematical reason. <strong>The more products we develop on Veeva Vault, the more efficient we get.</strong> The more economies of scale we drive out of the platform, the better the platform gets and the more economies of scale. So we have a platform. If we have 20 applications on that platform, it's an efficiency of one thing. If we have 40, it's an efficiency of another. And if we have 80, it's a whole efficiency of another thing. So that one is just more mechanical on that side.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>Not so long ago, the company bragged about how the Vault platform allowed for a mid-teens R&amp;D (vs. 25% today) despite material ongoing innovation.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-47" href="#footnote-47" target="_self">47</a></p><p>Lastly, while I&#8217;d expect Veeva to be more of a laggard regarding CodeGen app adoption, I imagine there will certainly still be some efficiencies to be gained from these types of tools over the next 5 years. MSFT reportedly is already generating ~30% of its code from such tools. In a more competitive space, such gains might be competed away &#8212; but I think Veeva should capture a healthy portion of any AI driven efficiencies on account of its huge competitive moat.</p><p>Going forward I project ~20 bps of annual leverage to R&amp;D. </p><p><em>Overall</em></p><p>Overall I&#8217;m forecasting ~600 bps of improvement in gross margins and ~400 bps of improvement on opex, or ~1,000 total (on a GAAP basis; ~800 on a non-GAAP basis). This results in GAAP operating margins of ~35% by FY31 vs. ~25% today.</p><p>This would also take non-GAAP operating margins up to 50% by FY31, a level where basically no other comparable companies operate. Adobe is currently at 47%, Intuit is at 39% and Autodesk is at 35%. Looking at the list of acquired SaaS co&#8217;s, Instructure had a 41% margin, SolarWinds a 45% margin, Ansys a 46% margin and AspenTech a whopping 56% margin. Virtually everyone else is well below those levels. </p><p>So I don&#8217;t feel great about projecting a 50% margin. But I also don&#8217;t think its overly optimistic. The rationale behind the 600 bps increase in gross margins is straightforward. I would be very surprised if there&#8217;s not continued operating leverage in S&amp;M. The only lever really to quibble with is the R&amp;D line. But there again I think I may be overly conservative &#8212; the company has ramped spend dramatically to build out its suite, and now that suite is largely complete (and the suite is starting to generate real revenue). It could be possible that AI development efforts delay the onset of this, but I think it&#8217;s coming.</p><p>The company has always operated differently. Gassner reminds me of this famous Buffett quote:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;Our experience has been that the manager of an already high-cost operation frequently is uncommonly resourceful in finding new ways to add to overhead, <strong>while the manager of a tightly-run operation usually continues to find additional methods to curtail costs</strong>, even when his costs are already well below those of his competitors.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>Buffett wrote that about Gene Abegg of Illinois National Bank way back in 1978, but I think it applies to Gassner today.</p><p>He believes in frugality and he believes in lean teams (that they actually go faster and ultimately produce better work than larger ones). He simply does not spend money unless he sees a commensurate return.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-48" href="#footnote-48" target="_self">48</a><a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-49" href="#footnote-49" target="_self">49</a><a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-50" href="#footnote-50" target="_self">50</a></p><p>Lastly, it should be noted that for Q1&#8217;FY26 earnings, Veeva posted its highest ever quarterly non-GAAP operating margin of 46% (a jump of a full 3 percentage points from Q4&#8217;FY25). While management expects margins to come in some over the course of FY26, it&#8217;s certainly a data point in support of Veeva&#8217;s ability to expand margins from here. Outperformance was driven by higher GMs for subscription and services, as well as operating leverage across all of R&amp;D/S&amp;M/G&amp;A &#8212; all categories, in other words.</p><div><hr></div><h2>Valuation</h2><p>Key to completing this story is understanding a likely multiple range for Veeva over time.</p><p>Today it trades around ~14-15x LTM revenue / ~19x LTM gross profit. </p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!5VUE!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc9cc7285-a89f-47c7-8dc0-d53d33484f72_2535x953.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!5VUE!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc9cc7285-a89f-47c7-8dc0-d53d33484f72_2535x953.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!5VUE!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc9cc7285-a89f-47c7-8dc0-d53d33484f72_2535x953.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!5VUE!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc9cc7285-a89f-47c7-8dc0-d53d33484f72_2535x953.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!5VUE!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc9cc7285-a89f-47c7-8dc0-d53d33484f72_2535x953.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!5VUE!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc9cc7285-a89f-47c7-8dc0-d53d33484f72_2535x953.png" width="1456" height="547" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/c9cc7285-a89f-47c7-8dc0-d53d33484f72_2535x953.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:547,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:135992,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/161907035?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc9cc7285-a89f-47c7-8dc0-d53d33484f72_2535x953.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!5VUE!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc9cc7285-a89f-47c7-8dc0-d53d33484f72_2535x953.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!5VUE!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc9cc7285-a89f-47c7-8dc0-d53d33484f72_2535x953.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!5VUE!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc9cc7285-a89f-47c7-8dc0-d53d33484f72_2535x953.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!5VUE!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc9cc7285-a89f-47c7-8dc0-d53d33484f72_2535x953.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>This is up materially from just a few months ago, when it traded in the ~10-11x LTM revenue range.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!eUB-!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa8ad6f6f-5557-43a9-9f1c-7a4de73a7a87_2400x1240.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!eUB-!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa8ad6f6f-5557-43a9-9f1c-7a4de73a7a87_2400x1240.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!eUB-!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa8ad6f6f-5557-43a9-9f1c-7a4de73a7a87_2400x1240.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!eUB-!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa8ad6f6f-5557-43a9-9f1c-7a4de73a7a87_2400x1240.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!eUB-!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa8ad6f6f-5557-43a9-9f1c-7a4de73a7a87_2400x1240.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!eUB-!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa8ad6f6f-5557-43a9-9f1c-7a4de73a7a87_2400x1240.png" width="1456" height="752" 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa8ad6f6f-5557-43a9-9f1c-7a4de73a7a87_2400x1240.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!eUB-!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa8ad6f6f-5557-43a9-9f1c-7a4de73a7a87_2400x1240.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!eUB-!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa8ad6f6f-5557-43a9-9f1c-7a4de73a7a87_2400x1240.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!eUB-!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa8ad6f6f-5557-43a9-9f1c-7a4de73a7a87_2400x1240.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Since 2023, Veeva&#8217;s traded in the 10-15x range, after getting as high as ~35x during the ZIRP-era.</p><p><em>Trading Comps</em></p><p>A set of &#8220;high-quality&#8221; software comps currently trades around ~11-12x LTM revenue / ~14-15x LTM gross profit.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!tPz4!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F04c5740b-a20e-4077-9f58-043aada7eb10_4000x1852.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!tPz4!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, 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/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!tPz4!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F04c5740b-a20e-4077-9f58-043aada7eb10_4000x1852.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!tPz4!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F04c5740b-a20e-4077-9f58-043aada7eb10_4000x1852.png" width="1456" height="674" 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F04c5740b-a20e-4077-9f58-043aada7eb10_4000x1852.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!tPz4!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F04c5740b-a20e-4077-9f58-043aada7eb10_4000x1852.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!tPz4!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F04c5740b-a20e-4077-9f58-043aada7eb10_4000x1852.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!tPz4!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F04c5740b-a20e-4077-9f58-043aada7eb10_4000x1852.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Looking at multiples over time across the software industry, the average multiple is actually lower today than in 2017.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NMHG!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F680c9aee-ab32-4f53-b6b6-2ddbf5a0d25b_879x451.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NMHG!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F680c9aee-ab32-4f53-b6b6-2ddbf5a0d25b_879x451.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NMHG!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F680c9aee-ab32-4f53-b6b6-2ddbf5a0d25b_879x451.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NMHG!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F680c9aee-ab32-4f53-b6b6-2ddbf5a0d25b_879x451.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NMHG!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F680c9aee-ab32-4f53-b6b6-2ddbf5a0d25b_879x451.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NMHG!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F680c9aee-ab32-4f53-b6b6-2ddbf5a0d25b_879x451.png" width="879" height="451" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/680c9aee-ab32-4f53-b6b6-2ddbf5a0d25b_879x451.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:451,&quot;width&quot;:879,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:161904,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/161907035?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F680c9aee-ab32-4f53-b6b6-2ddbf5a0d25b_879x451.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NMHG!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F680c9aee-ab32-4f53-b6b6-2ddbf5a0d25b_879x451.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NMHG!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F680c9aee-ab32-4f53-b6b6-2ddbf5a0d25b_879x451.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NMHG!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F680c9aee-ab32-4f53-b6b6-2ddbf5a0d25b_879x451.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NMHG!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F680c9aee-ab32-4f53-b6b6-2ddbf5a0d25b_879x451.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>However, we can see the dispersion of multiples has become much greater, with higher growth software companies (as well as the top ten multiples in the space) commanding much higher multiples today than in 2017. I&#8217;m not sure why this wasn&#8217;t the case in 2017, but clearly higher growth should warrant a premium, all else equal.</p><p>Below is an interesting chart from Goldman showing revenue multiple vs. growth, but dividing the universe into &gt;15% FCF companies and &lt;15% FCF companies.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Vl3T!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F817c058c-3ecb-492e-a7d4-861799f7a492_863x483.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Vl3T!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F817c058c-3ecb-492e-a7d4-861799f7a492_863x483.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Vl3T!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F817c058c-3ecb-492e-a7d4-861799f7a492_863x483.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Vl3T!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F817c058c-3ecb-492e-a7d4-861799f7a492_863x483.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Vl3T!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F817c058c-3ecb-492e-a7d4-861799f7a492_863x483.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Vl3T!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F817c058c-3ecb-492e-a7d4-861799f7a492_863x483.png" width="863" height="483" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/817c058c-3ecb-492e-a7d4-861799f7a492_863x483.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:483,&quot;width&quot;:863,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:117666,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/161907035?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F817c058c-3ecb-492e-a7d4-861799f7a492_863x483.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Vl3T!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F817c058c-3ecb-492e-a7d4-861799f7a492_863x483.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Vl3T!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F817c058c-3ecb-492e-a7d4-861799f7a492_863x483.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Vl3T!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F817c058c-3ecb-492e-a7d4-861799f7a492_863x483.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Vl3T!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F817c058c-3ecb-492e-a7d4-861799f7a492_863x483.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>We can see a huge difference in average multiples between the two cohorts. On the right side of the slide, we can see that the average multiple for the &lt;15% FCF company has been cut in half over the last 3 years as a greater premium has been placed on profitability since the COVID period. </p><p>Very simply, the more profitable you are, and the higher the growth you have, the bigger the multiple you will receive, all else equal:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ftHm!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2f7fcd36-fde0-4584-9690-be45b0d74eeb_868x464.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ftHm!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2f7fcd36-fde0-4584-9690-be45b0d74eeb_868x464.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ftHm!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2f7fcd36-fde0-4584-9690-be45b0d74eeb_868x464.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ftHm!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2f7fcd36-fde0-4584-9690-be45b0d74eeb_868x464.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ftHm!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2f7fcd36-fde0-4584-9690-be45b0d74eeb_868x464.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ftHm!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2f7fcd36-fde0-4584-9690-be45b0d74eeb_868x464.png" width="868" height="464" 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2f7fcd36-fde0-4584-9690-be45b0d74eeb_868x464.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ftHm!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2f7fcd36-fde0-4584-9690-be45b0d74eeb_868x464.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ftHm!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2f7fcd36-fde0-4584-9690-be45b0d74eeb_868x464.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ftHm!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2f7fcd36-fde0-4584-9690-be45b0d74eeb_868x464.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!wWHD!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F912ea581-a542-4f6c-9542-8381c211bf7e_885x479.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!wWHD!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F912ea581-a542-4f6c-9542-8381c211bf7e_885x479.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!wWHD!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F912ea581-a542-4f6c-9542-8381c211bf7e_885x479.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!wWHD!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F912ea581-a542-4f6c-9542-8381c211bf7e_885x479.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!wWHD!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F912ea581-a542-4f6c-9542-8381c211bf7e_885x479.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!wWHD!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F912ea581-a542-4f6c-9542-8381c211bf7e_885x479.png" width="885" height="479" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/912ea581-a542-4f6c-9542-8381c211bf7e_885x479.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:479,&quot;width&quot;:885,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:206696,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/161907035?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F912ea581-a542-4f6c-9542-8381c211bf7e_885x479.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!wWHD!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F912ea581-a542-4f6c-9542-8381c211bf7e_885x479.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!wWHD!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F912ea581-a542-4f6c-9542-8381c211bf7e_885x479.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!wWHD!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F912ea581-a542-4f6c-9542-8381c211bf7e_885x479.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!wWHD!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F912ea581-a542-4f6c-9542-8381c211bf7e_885x479.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Veeva doesn&#8217;t warrant it&#8217;s current ~13-14x NTM revenue multiple based on its growth rate &#8212; far from it. Based on its growth rate alone, it might warrant a ~5-10x multiple. However, Veeva is extremely profitable (~40% FCF margin) with high predictability and defensibility. So somewhere 10x+ seems to make sense so long as it can sustain relatively healthy growth.</p><p>Here&#8217; what our &#8220;high-quality&#8221; software comp set looks like, charting (1) revenue multiple vs. Rule of 40 and (2) revenue multiple vs. revenue growth:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!sxcf!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F575eddb7-a090-4ae4-aa15-8ccb7512ac6d_1973x1807.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!sxcf!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F575eddb7-a090-4ae4-aa15-8ccb7512ac6d_1973x1807.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!sxcf!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F575eddb7-a090-4ae4-aa15-8ccb7512ac6d_1973x1807.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!sxcf!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F575eddb7-a090-4ae4-aa15-8ccb7512ac6d_1973x1807.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!sxcf!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F575eddb7-a090-4ae4-aa15-8ccb7512ac6d_1973x1807.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!sxcf!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F575eddb7-a090-4ae4-aa15-8ccb7512ac6d_1973x1807.png" width="1456" height="1333" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/575eddb7-a090-4ae4-aa15-8ccb7512ac6d_1973x1807.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1333,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:177938,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/161907035?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F575eddb7-a090-4ae4-aa15-8ccb7512ac6d_1973x1807.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!sxcf!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F575eddb7-a090-4ae4-aa15-8ccb7512ac6d_1973x1807.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!sxcf!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F575eddb7-a090-4ae4-aa15-8ccb7512ac6d_1973x1807.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!sxcf!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F575eddb7-a090-4ae4-aa15-8ccb7512ac6d_1973x1807.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!sxcf!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F575eddb7-a090-4ae4-aa15-8ccb7512ac6d_1973x1807.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!td0i!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F289fe4bf-9a66-4e47-b8c0-d831876b698b_1947x1840.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!td0i!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F289fe4bf-9a66-4e47-b8c0-d831876b698b_1947x1840.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!td0i!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F289fe4bf-9a66-4e47-b8c0-d831876b698b_1947x1840.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!td0i!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F289fe4bf-9a66-4e47-b8c0-d831876b698b_1947x1840.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!td0i!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F289fe4bf-9a66-4e47-b8c0-d831876b698b_1947x1840.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!td0i!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F289fe4bf-9a66-4e47-b8c0-d831876b698b_1947x1840.png" width="1456" height="1376" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/289fe4bf-9a66-4e47-b8c0-d831876b698b_1947x1840.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1376,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:166011,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/161907035?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F289fe4bf-9a66-4e47-b8c0-d831876b698b_1947x1840.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!td0i!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F289fe4bf-9a66-4e47-b8c0-d831876b698b_1947x1840.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!td0i!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F289fe4bf-9a66-4e47-b8c0-d831876b698b_1947x1840.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!td0i!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F289fe4bf-9a66-4e47-b8c0-d831876b698b_1947x1840.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!td0i!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F289fe4bf-9a66-4e47-b8c0-d831876b698b_1947x1840.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>These charts support the case for a 10x+ multiple given Veeva&#8217;s set of metrics.</p><p><em>M&amp;A Comps</em></p><p>Below is a set of M&amp;A comps for Veeva. </p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4vgC!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe967e5f9-009d-408b-9a10-1209a5c9c763_2148x2250.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4vgC!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe967e5f9-009d-408b-9a10-1209a5c9c763_2148x2250.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4vgC!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe967e5f9-009d-408b-9a10-1209a5c9c763_2148x2250.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4vgC!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe967e5f9-009d-408b-9a10-1209a5c9c763_2148x2250.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4vgC!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe967e5f9-009d-408b-9a10-1209a5c9c763_2148x2250.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4vgC!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe967e5f9-009d-408b-9a10-1209a5c9c763_2148x2250.png" width="1456" height="1525" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/e967e5f9-009d-408b-9a10-1209a5c9c763_2148x2250.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1525,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:211739,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/161907035?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe967e5f9-009d-408b-9a10-1209a5c9c763_2148x2250.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4vgC!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe967e5f9-009d-408b-9a10-1209a5c9c763_2148x2250.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4vgC!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe967e5f9-009d-408b-9a10-1209a5c9c763_2148x2250.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4vgC!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe967e5f9-009d-408b-9a10-1209a5c9c763_2148x2250.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4vgC!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe967e5f9-009d-408b-9a10-1209a5c9c763_2148x2250.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>The median transaction for this set is 8.5x LTM revenue and 13.2x LTM gross profit. </p><p>Charting revenue multiple by Rule of 40, we see a similar correlation to our trading comps. According to this chart, Veeva&#8217;s 58% Rule of 40 would warrant a ~12-13x revenue multiple (vs. ~15x according to the trading comps).</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!9a2b!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1a2a7e1b-1315-457e-b5ad-c48ca94a3eaf_2191x1763.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!9a2b!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1a2a7e1b-1315-457e-b5ad-c48ca94a3eaf_2191x1763.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!9a2b!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1a2a7e1b-1315-457e-b5ad-c48ca94a3eaf_2191x1763.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!9a2b!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1a2a7e1b-1315-457e-b5ad-c48ca94a3eaf_2191x1763.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!9a2b!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1a2a7e1b-1315-457e-b5ad-c48ca94a3eaf_2191x1763.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!9a2b!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1a2a7e1b-1315-457e-b5ad-c48ca94a3eaf_2191x1763.png" width="1456" height="1172" 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1a2a7e1b-1315-457e-b5ad-c48ca94a3eaf_2191x1763.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!9a2b!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1a2a7e1b-1315-457e-b5ad-c48ca94a3eaf_2191x1763.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!9a2b!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1a2a7e1b-1315-457e-b5ad-c48ca94a3eaf_2191x1763.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!9a2b!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1a2a7e1b-1315-457e-b5ad-c48ca94a3eaf_2191x1763.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>If we chart revenue multiple by revenue growth, Veeva&#8217;s 16% growth rate would warrant a ~8x-ish revenue multiple (vs. ~12x according to the trading comps).</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!rvkA!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F7771df95-178d-42fe-b702-368f09687f8d_2166x1794.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!rvkA!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F7771df95-178d-42fe-b702-368f09687f8d_2166x1794.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!rvkA!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F7771df95-178d-42fe-b702-368f09687f8d_2166x1794.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!rvkA!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F7771df95-178d-42fe-b702-368f09687f8d_2166x1794.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!rvkA!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F7771df95-178d-42fe-b702-368f09687f8d_2166x1794.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!rvkA!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F7771df95-178d-42fe-b702-368f09687f8d_2166x1794.png" width="1456" height="1206" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/7771df95-178d-42fe-b702-368f09687f8d_2166x1794.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1206,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:142217,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/161907035?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F7771df95-178d-42fe-b702-368f09687f8d_2166x1794.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!rvkA!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F7771df95-178d-42fe-b702-368f09687f8d_2166x1794.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!rvkA!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F7771df95-178d-42fe-b702-368f09687f8d_2166x1794.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!rvkA!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F7771df95-178d-42fe-b702-368f09687f8d_2166x1794.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!rvkA!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F7771df95-178d-42fe-b702-368f09687f8d_2166x1794.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p><em>Where Should Veeva Trade?</em></p><p>Veeva is an outlier in that, should margins expand at around the rate I expect, in 5 years a 10x LTM revenue multiple would equate to a ~21x LTM non-GAAP EBIT multiple (and ~18x forward).</p><p>So Veeva, at that point, might look fairly or a little richly valued on a revenue basis (depending on how fast it&#8217;s growing), but on an EBIT basis would look quite cheap for a high-quality SaaS co. A 21x multiple would be far below (approximately half) of where the median comp trades today. The only comps that come close to trading at that level are Adobe (17x) and Salesforce (19x). Adobe is dealing with real existential issues (GenAI, Canva). Meanwhile Salesforce&#8217;s growth has slowed to the MSD range as it wrestles with an aging technology platform and encroaching competitors. </p><p>A ~21x LTM multiple would require taking the company with perhaps the best Rule of 40 in five years (likely 60%+) and assigning it a bottom decile EBIT multiple. Only the emergence of a real existential threat and/or a slowing of growth into the MSDs would, in theory, lead to something like that. </p><p>Thus I think a 10x LTM revenue multiple has a layer of conservatism to it, and I use it as my base case below. </p><p><em>5-year Model</em></p><p>Trying to put this all together, below is a simple 5 year model. It assumes:</p><ul><li><p>$6.2bn of revenue by CY2030 (implies a 15% 6-year revenue CAGR)</p></li><li><p>Overall GM rises to 81% (from 75% today)</p></li><li><p>Total GAAP opex as a % of revenue drops from 49% to 45%, driven by modest operating leverage across R&amp;D, S&amp;M and G&amp;A</p></li><li><p>Exit multiple of 10x LTM revenue / 21x LTM non-GAAP EBIT</p></li><li><p>At its current PPS of ~$280, this results in a ~1.4x MOIC by 2030 and an ~8% IRR. Not very exciting&#8230;</p></li></ul><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!_zrN!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F85b72086-2a66-42f4-b9da-fcfac2f14bc1_2828x2250.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!_zrN!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F85b72086-2a66-42f4-b9da-fcfac2f14bc1_2828x2250.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!_zrN!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F85b72086-2a66-42f4-b9da-fcfac2f14bc1_2828x2250.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!_zrN!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F85b72086-2a66-42f4-b9da-fcfac2f14bc1_2828x2250.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" 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class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!h7vt!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F50db50c8-5516-407c-be32-fc92cb621cf2_2025x857.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!h7vt!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F50db50c8-5516-407c-be32-fc92cb621cf2_2025x857.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!h7vt!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F50db50c8-5516-407c-be32-fc92cb621cf2_2025x857.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!h7vt!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F50db50c8-5516-407c-be32-fc92cb621cf2_2025x857.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!h7vt!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F50db50c8-5516-407c-be32-fc92cb621cf2_2025x857.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!h7vt!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F50db50c8-5516-407c-be32-fc92cb621cf2_2025x857.png" width="623" height="263.5769230769231" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/50db50c8-5516-407c-be32-fc92cb621cf2_2025x857.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:616,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:623,&quot;bytes&quot;:75872,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/161907035?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F50db50c8-5516-407c-be32-fc92cb621cf2_2025x857.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!h7vt!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F50db50c8-5516-407c-be32-fc92cb621cf2_2025x857.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!h7vt!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F50db50c8-5516-407c-be32-fc92cb621cf2_2025x857.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!h7vt!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F50db50c8-5516-407c-be32-fc92cb621cf2_2025x857.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!h7vt!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F50db50c8-5516-407c-be32-fc92cb621cf2_2025x857.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>However, I do like Veeva a lot at lower prices. Below are sensitivities outlining returns as a function of starting PPS and exit multiple. I&#8217;ve highlighted scenarios that theoretically produce 15%+ IRRs.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!yBNW!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F935baa5b-ee3b-4e00-88a0-3141c5a6c443_1620x1505.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!yBNW!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F935baa5b-ee3b-4e00-88a0-3141c5a6c443_1620x1505.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!yBNW!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F935baa5b-ee3b-4e00-88a0-3141c5a6c443_1620x1505.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!yBNW!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F935baa5b-ee3b-4e00-88a0-3141c5a6c443_1620x1505.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!yBNW!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F935baa5b-ee3b-4e00-88a0-3141c5a6c443_1620x1505.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!yBNW!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F935baa5b-ee3b-4e00-88a0-3141c5a6c443_1620x1505.png" width="605" height="562.2012362637363" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/935baa5b-ee3b-4e00-88a0-3141c5a6c443_1620x1505.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1353,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:605,&quot;bytes&quot;:207013,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/161907035?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F935baa5b-ee3b-4e00-88a0-3141c5a6c443_1620x1505.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!yBNW!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F935baa5b-ee3b-4e00-88a0-3141c5a6c443_1620x1505.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!yBNW!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F935baa5b-ee3b-4e00-88a0-3141c5a6c443_1620x1505.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!yBNW!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F935baa5b-ee3b-4e00-88a0-3141c5a6c443_1620x1505.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!yBNW!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F935baa5b-ee3b-4e00-88a0-3141c5a6c443_1620x1505.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Based on above, I think Veeva starts to get interesting in the $220-230 range, and really interesting below that. </p><p>Of course, if you are a strong believer in the AI opportunity (or some other part of the story, or think it will trade at a higher multiple, etc.), then perhaps you can like it north of $220-230.</p><div><hr></div><h2>Management + Ownership</h2><p>Probably the best indicator of management team strength is past performance. And this is a team with great past performance.</p><p>Some of their accomplishments to date:</p><ul><li><p>Grown revenue by 13x since its IPO in 2013, a CAGR of 26% over 11 years</p></li><li><p>Achieved a GAAP operating margin in the mid-20%s and a non-GAAP operating margin in the low-40%s, both best-in-class vs. software peers</p></li><li><p>Achieved this while investing heavily in a host of new products. Picked the right markets.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-51" href="#footnote-51" target="_self">51</a> Set the company up well for its next leg of growth</p></li><li><p>Executed well on M&amp;A. Acquisitions have been strong strategic fits, moderately priced and have performed very well</p></li><li><p>Established a strong corporate culture focused on customer success and product excellence</p></li><li><p>Built a ~$50bn market cap company on just $7m of VC capital</p></li></ul><p><em>Peter Gassner</em></p><p>Gassner seems to have a real nose for opportunity, even before Veeva. From Veeva&#8217;s 2014 investor day:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;I started my career as a software engineer at IBM Silicon Valley Lab and then Almaden Research Center programmer. I was developing software on the mainframe, actually. </em></p><p><em>And then the client/server market started to emerge, and <strong>I started to see this client/server market. And I went to PeopleSoft in the early days</strong> and I built up that team. I was the General Manager of the Technology Group, PeopleTools and the Chief Architect, and we've built probably the leading platform of its day. And there were so many applications built on this platform. That was the foundation for all of PeopleSoft, and that was great, great for me. And I look back on that 9 years and I think that was a good one. I have a spark in my eye, and that informed my idea of what customers -- what employee success is. That was employee success for me at that time. </em></p><p><em><strong>But then I started to see, hey, this cloud thing was coming, and it was going to revolutionize everything and I wanted to be a part of it. So I joined Salesforce.com early</strong> when it was a small company, a private company, to build up that platform, the Salesforce.com platform, and take it to the enterprise market. And so that's what we did. </em></p><p><em><strong>And then about 2006, I started to think about industry-specific software that, man, this cloud thing is great, but nobody is bringing cloud to these industry-specific problems.</strong> They are totally stuck in client/server, and these industry-specific problems are hugely important to customers. So I started thinking about that and realizing that would be the next wave of things, and that you could fundamentally change things in industry-specific software, do it in a different way, move them to the cloud, maybe mix some data in there. And that was what founded Veeva.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>I used to work with an investor who liked CEOs with the &#8220;money gene.&#8221; Gassner&#8217;s background reads like &#8220;money gene&#8221; personified, jumping on important trends early and joining the leading companies therein.</p><p>However, Gassner is getting up there in age at 60 years old. My sense is that he has another 5 years left in him, at least. But I don&#8217;t know that we should expect 10.</p><p>For now he seems fully committed. He&#8217;s still in the CEO role. The company is still innovating at a furious pace. He still owns ~9% of the company through 15.1m shares (he owned 15.2m at the time of the IPO). </p><p><em>Broader Management Team</em></p><p>The broader team generally has a good deal of tenure with Veeva. The group below has an average of ~10 years with Veeva.</p><ul><li><p>Paul Shawah (EVP Strategy). Joined Veeva in 2011 (~14 year tenure). Former SVP of Commercial Cloud Strategy at Veeva. Previously Director for Life Sciences at SAP and, before that, Siebel</p></li><li><p>Jim Reilly (President, Development Cloud). Joined Veeva in 2015 (~10 year tenure). </p></li><li><p>Tom Schwenger (President, Chief Customer Officer). Joined Veeva in 2019 (~6 year tenure). Previously Sr MD at Accenture focused on Life Sciences for 18 years</p></li><li><p>Nitsa Zuppas (President, Chief of Staff). Joined Veeva in 2013 (~12 year tenure) and was formerly Veeva&#8217;s CMO. Former VP of Marketing at Siebel for 8 years</p></li><li><p>Avril England (General Manager, Vault). Joined Veeva in 2013 (~12 year tenure). Former Product at PeopleSoft</p></li><li><p>Brian Van Wagener (CFO). Joined as CFO in 2024. Was formerly with Veeva from 2017-2023 as Chief of Staff to CEO and VP of Global Sales Operations.</p></li><li><p>Erik Smith (SVP, Global R&amp;D and Quality Sales). Joined Veeva in 2013 (~12 year tenure). </p></li><li><p>Laura Moran (President, Global Commercial). Joined Veeva in 2021 (~4 year tenure). Formerly a Partner at McKinsey</p></li></ul><p>Notable departures:</p><ul><li><p>Matt Wallach (still on BoD). Co-Founder and former President from 2007-2019. Now minority owner of the Philadelphia Union. Prior to Veeva was the GM of Pharma &amp; Biotech at Siebel Systems</p></li><li><p>Frank Defesche. Multiple roles at Veeva from 2008-2023 including SVP of Global Customer Services and SVP of Vault CRM. Jumped ship to Salesforce in 2023 to apparently lead their life sciences CRM effort. According to ex employees, he is a strong leader, but came up on the services side. Now in charge of product at Salesforce, this is perhaps not his #1 skillset.</p></li><li><p>Timothy Cabral (Still on BoD). Former CFO from 2010-2020. Currently serves on a number of BoDs, including Veeva, ServiceTitan, Doximity</p></li><li><p>Jennifer Goldsmith. Former SVP of Veeva Vault from 2010-2019. Left to become Chief Strategy Officer of Instructure, before founding Tendo (a healthcare-focused technology company) in 2020</p></li><li><p>Henry Levy. Former Chief Strategy Officer and President of R&amp;D and Quality from 2016-2023. Now President of Clarivate, a publicly-traded data/analytics/technology provider for academia, government, life science, healthcare and IP management.</p></li><li><p>Brent Bowman. Former CFO from 2020-2024. Now CFO of PowerSchool. </p></li></ul><p><em>Veeva Culture</em></p><p>Veeva&#8217;s official core values are:</p><ul><li><p>Do the right thing</p></li><li><p>Customer success</p></li><li><p>Employee success</p></li><li><p>Speed</p></li></ul><p>Here is Co-Founder Matt Wallach describing how Veeva reinforces its cultural tenets (Strategy at Scale podcast, 4/8/25): </p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;We review before every big meeting. We review it on the company call every quarter. We review it before every Board meeting. We don&#8217;t just list them out the way I just did. We talk about them &#8212; and why they&#8217;re still important. <strong>And when you communicate clearly for many years and you &#8216;walk the walk,&#8217; then people believe it.</strong> And it&#8217;s not &#8216;cool&#8217; to do something that&#8217;s bad for customers at Veeva. It&#8217;s not &#8216;cool&#8217; to do something that hurts another employee. It&#8217;s not &#8216;cool&#8217; to drag your feet, and to wait until the last minute or to slow the team down. That&#8217;s just not how we do it.&#8221;</em> </p></blockquote><p>Here&#8217;s the full quote, which is great.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-52" href="#footnote-52" target="_self">52</a></p><p>Other aspects of the culture, from what I can glean:</p><ul><li><p>Customers &gt; employees &gt; shareholders. This is how they prioritize decision making. I believe this is the right order!</p></li><li><p>Each product area operates relatively autonomously. This might sacrifice some margin, but it leads to better products &amp; innovation and better employee morale.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-53" href="#footnote-53" target="_self">53</a><a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-54" href="#footnote-54" target="_self">54</a></p></li><li><p>&#8220;Execution matters most&#8221;. Emphasis on speed / toughness / accountability<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-55" href="#footnote-55" target="_self">55</a><a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-56" href="#footnote-56" target="_self">56</a><a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-57" href="#footnote-57" target="_self">57</a></p></li><li><p>Frugality. Spend it like you own it</p></li></ul><p>Can&#8217;t argue much with these. </p><p>Here&#8217;s a quote from a Nov-24 Tegus call with a Former VP of CRM Strategy at Veeva:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;<strong>Veeva is a very tough and unusual culture also. Either you love it or you hate it.</strong> A lot of people come in and they'll go right out the door in three months. That happens quite a lot. <strong>If you stay, you stay forever.</strong> You have people like me, I stayed forever.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>Perhaps some things to worry about, according to a sampling of Glassdoor reviews:</p><ul><li><p>Gassner seems to strike fear into his employees (a healthy amount of fear borne out of accountability is not a con at all, I would argue)</p></li><li><p>Gassner supposedly does some strange forms of micromanagement, like banning soda from team meetings</p></li><li><p>Pay scale seems on the low side. Lean teams + low pay scale = super normal profits. But can they retain their best people?</p></li></ul><p><em>Ownership</em></p><p>While %s are low for insiders (other than Gassner), the corresponding dollar amounts are meaningful.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!5smm!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F623cfe45-9580-48fd-89b9-f1aa49de6ae5_1815x1082.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!5smm!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F623cfe45-9580-48fd-89b9-f1aa49de6ae5_1815x1082.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!5smm!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F623cfe45-9580-48fd-89b9-f1aa49de6ae5_1815x1082.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!5smm!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F623cfe45-9580-48fd-89b9-f1aa49de6ae5_1815x1082.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!5smm!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F623cfe45-9580-48fd-89b9-f1aa49de6ae5_1815x1082.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!5smm!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F623cfe45-9580-48fd-89b9-f1aa49de6ae5_1815x1082.png" width="1456" height="868" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/623cfe45-9580-48fd-89b9-f1aa49de6ae5_1815x1082.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:868,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:116979,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/161907035?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F623cfe45-9580-48fd-89b9-f1aa49de6ae5_1815x1082.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!5smm!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F623cfe45-9580-48fd-89b9-f1aa49de6ae5_1815x1082.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!5smm!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F623cfe45-9580-48fd-89b9-f1aa49de6ae5_1815x1082.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!5smm!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F623cfe45-9580-48fd-89b9-f1aa49de6ae5_1815x1082.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!5smm!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F623cfe45-9580-48fd-89b9-f1aa49de6ae5_1815x1082.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p><em>Management Compensation</em></p><p>All of Veeva&#8217;s named executive officers (NEOs) earn the same base salary of ~$450k. NEOs also earn annual RSU awards equal to 125-375% of base that vest quarterly over one year. They also earn stock options equal to their number of RSUs granted but multiplied by a factor of 3-4x (these vest annually over 4 years and carry a strike price equal to the PPS at the time of the grant).</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!pWOl!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Faf791200-748c-4b1d-88de-084a6bc36d87_652x570.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!pWOl!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Faf791200-748c-4b1d-88de-084a6bc36d87_652x570.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!pWOl!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Faf791200-748c-4b1d-88de-084a6bc36d87_652x570.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!pWOl!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Faf791200-748c-4b1d-88de-084a6bc36d87_652x570.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!pWOl!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Faf791200-748c-4b1d-88de-084a6bc36d87_652x570.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!pWOl!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Faf791200-748c-4b1d-88de-084a6bc36d87_652x570.png" width="652" height="570" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/af791200-748c-4b1d-88de-084a6bc36d87_652x570.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:570,&quot;width&quot;:652,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:184842,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/161907035?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Faf791200-748c-4b1d-88de-084a6bc36d87_652x570.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!pWOl!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Faf791200-748c-4b1d-88de-084a6bc36d87_652x570.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!pWOl!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Faf791200-748c-4b1d-88de-084a6bc36d87_652x570.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!pWOl!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Faf791200-748c-4b1d-88de-084a6bc36d87_652x570.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!pWOl!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Faf791200-748c-4b1d-88de-084a6bc36d87_652x570.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Peter Gassner earns the same base of $450k. Gassner does not earn annual RSUs or options. Rather he is granted 5-year option packages. In Jun-24, he was granted a package of 2.65m options with an exercise price of $236.90 (equal to the 52-wk high at the time of the grant &#8212; which was significantly higher than the closing price at the time). The package vests annually over 5 years and also carries a mandatory holding period of an additional 2 years post vesting. </p><p><em>Acquisitions</em></p><p>Veeva has a strong track record re acquisitions. They&#8217;ve been smaller, reasonably priced and good strategic fits. And they&#8217;ve generally performed very well.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!CHlC!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8991dc4e-7160-42d6-8d33-a4ca91691304_2649x473.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!CHlC!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8991dc4e-7160-42d6-8d33-a4ca91691304_2649x473.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!CHlC!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8991dc4e-7160-42d6-8d33-a4ca91691304_2649x473.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!CHlC!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8991dc4e-7160-42d6-8d33-a4ca91691304_2649x473.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!CHlC!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8991dc4e-7160-42d6-8d33-a4ca91691304_2649x473.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!CHlC!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8991dc4e-7160-42d6-8d33-a4ca91691304_2649x473.png" width="1456" height="260" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/8991dc4e-7160-42d6-8d33-a4ca91691304_2649x473.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:260,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:76411,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/161907035?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8991dc4e-7160-42d6-8d33-a4ca91691304_2649x473.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!CHlC!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8991dc4e-7160-42d6-8d33-a4ca91691304_2649x473.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!CHlC!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8991dc4e-7160-42d6-8d33-a4ca91691304_2649x473.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!CHlC!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8991dc4e-7160-42d6-8d33-a4ca91691304_2649x473.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!CHlC!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8991dc4e-7160-42d6-8d33-a4ca91691304_2649x473.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div></div></div></a></figure></div><ul><li><p>Zinc Ahead was a tough initial competitor of Veeva&#8217;s in the commercial content management space (i.e. a competitor to Veeva&#8217;s PromoMats product). The acquisition brought over 120 customers (40 net new) and established a stronger presence in Europe (Zinc was based in the UK). The acquisition accelerated the progression to one industry standard across commercial content management, helping Veeeva avoid a battle royale between two high-quality competitors. It was done at a very reasonable price of ~4x run-rate sales.</p></li><li><p>Crossix has performed very well post acquisition. In Veeva&#8217;s Q1&#8217;FY26 prepared remarks, they stated that Crossix was generating &#8220;more than a $200 million run rate today,&#8221; which is about ~3x larger than when it was acquired ~5 years earlier. Veeva also mentioned on the call that Crossix was growing north of 30%. I believe growth has actually inflected upwards of late at Crossix (based on disclosures at Veeva&#8217;s &#8216;22 investor day, Crossix grew at a ~20% CAGR from 2019-2022). Veeva believes Crossix &#8220;has grown to become the standard for marketing analytics in life sciences.&#8221; Veeva&#8217;s suite of Compass products have also been built on top of Crossix&#8217; technology platform, which was the vision at the time of Crossix acquisition. In other words, Crossix has created very significant value for Veeva &#8212; it&#8217;s been a home run.</p></li><li><p>Veracity Logic provided Veeva with its initial RTSM solution. Veracity tripled its revenue less than 1 year post acquisition.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-58" href="#footnote-58" target="_self">58</a> RTSM will be a key category for Veeva over time.</p></li></ul><p>From its 2023 investor day:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;Most acquisitions don't work out. That's the fact. They all work out for the bankers and the lawyers, it all works out. But mostly, it doesn't work out. Those are the facts. And if you look at it, it's &#8212; <strong>I think it's somewhat to lack of discipline. So we're very disciplined.</strong> All of our acquisitions have worked out.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p><em>Other Interesting Nuggets from Management</em></p><ul><li><p>On the high predictability of developing great products<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-59" href="#footnote-59" target="_self">59</a></p></li></ul><div><hr></div><h2>Key Investment Risks</h2><p><em>Steep Multiple</em></p><p>Veeva currently trades at ~15x LTM revenue, ~20x LTM gross profit and ~55x GAAP EBIT. That&#8217;s pretty steep for a company expected to grow less than 20%, even for a business of Veeva&#8217;s quality. </p><p>Not so long ago Veeva traded in the ~10-11x LTM revenue range, which I think is a level that could be sustained longer term. At ~15x, I think you&#8217;d need to bake in a fair degree of multiple compression which will weigh on returns.</p><p><em>Near-Term Growth Slower than Expected</em></p><p>While I believe Veeva will gain significant share in R&amp;D, it could happen more slowly than anticipated. In certain areas like Safety / Quality / Regulatory, customers may be happy to use incumbent solutions so long as they continue to work. While Veeva&#8217;s products may be objectively better, they may not offer enough cost savings, etc. to incentivize strong levels of near-term migrations &#8212; it could be a slower drip instead.</p><p>However, as mentioned earlier, AI could act as an accelerator of sorts. For example, an AI-driven regulatory writer could shave weeks off the drafting of certain regulatory reports. In the Safety suite, AI could be used to drastically reduce the manual work needed to prep adverse event cases for review. Such functionality, if it does come to fruition, would make it tougher for customers to postpone a move.</p><p><em>Longer-Term Growth Drivers Break Down </em></p><p>While I believe growth in Veeva&#8217;s R&amp;D suite will very likely sustain attractive levels of overall near-term growth, some of Veeva&#8217;s longer-term growth drivers are still very much &#8220;question marks&#8221; at this point.</p><ul><li><p>AI. AI might not materially add to TAM. We don&#8217;t know yet how much Veeva can charge for its AI functionality. Just enough to make up for lost seats? Way more than that? </p></li><li><p>Compass. Veeva could fail to take meaningful share from IQVIA in its Compass business. IQVIA has been building its offerings for over 3 decades and enjoys a monopoly-esque position. Its products benefit from huge switching costs. </p></li><li><p>Horizontal CRM. This is a start-up targeting an entirely new set of customers. While Veeva has tremendous expertise in platform building / CRM / etc., this is a highly competitive space and a departure from Veeva&#8217;s tried and true model of selling into life sciences.</p></li></ul><p>These initiatives should be monitored closely. To sustain teens levels of growth beyond the current wave of R&amp;D-led growth, at least one of AI or horizontal CRM would probably need to really hit.</p><p><em>Is Veeva&#8217;s TAM Really $20BN?</em></p><p>Here is Veeva&#8217;s TAM slide from its latest 2024 investor day:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!1JDK!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fad028cbf-0fcd-402c-ae7e-a1def3912230_987x559.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!1JDK!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fad028cbf-0fcd-402c-ae7e-a1def3912230_987x559.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!1JDK!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fad028cbf-0fcd-402c-ae7e-a1def3912230_987x559.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!1JDK!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fad028cbf-0fcd-402c-ae7e-a1def3912230_987x559.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!1JDK!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fad028cbf-0fcd-402c-ae7e-a1def3912230_987x559.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!1JDK!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fad028cbf-0fcd-402c-ae7e-a1def3912230_987x559.png" width="987" height="559" 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fad028cbf-0fcd-402c-ae7e-a1def3912230_987x559.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!1JDK!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fad028cbf-0fcd-402c-ae7e-a1def3912230_987x559.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!1JDK!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fad028cbf-0fcd-402c-ae7e-a1def3912230_987x559.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!1JDK!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fad028cbf-0fcd-402c-ae7e-a1def3912230_987x559.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>As you can see, they are simply assuming that Veeva&#8217;s TAM is 1% of the overall market for biopharma + medtech. That degree of rigor doesn&#8217;t exactly instill confidence&#8230; So can we trust this TAM figure?</p><p>If we go back to 2022 (and earlier), Veeva actually did a bottoms-up TAM analysis based on its then current line-up of products. As we can see below, in 2022 it calculated its TAM as $13BN using this methodology.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!gVUI!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fef42ee74-70fd-41e7-ab23-b0470879538e_967x535.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!gVUI!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fef42ee74-70fd-41e7-ab23-b0470879538e_967x535.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!gVUI!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fef42ee74-70fd-41e7-ab23-b0470879538e_967x535.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!gVUI!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fef42ee74-70fd-41e7-ab23-b0470879538e_967x535.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" 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2023, Veeva switched to a top-down calculation, and included TAM that wasn&#8217;t serviceable by its then-current products, but could conceivably become serviceable over time.</p><p>We can see above that in 2022, the Commercial TAM (of $6bn) is approximately equal to the $7bn that is assumed for Veeva&#8217;s 2024 Commercial TAM. Further, the delta could easily be explained by the additions of Campaign Manager and Service Center.</p><p>The expansion to the R&amp;D TAM from 2022 to 2024 is more of a leap, growing from $7bn to $13bn. And there were no major product releases post 2022 that could potentially explain this. Perhaps Veeva decided these R&amp;D categories were larger than they once thought, or more likely they think there is just significant additional whitespace in these categories (or both).</p><p>Either way, the R&amp;D TAM of $13bn feels a little squishy, based on this. That could be a source of risk, leading R&amp;D growth to slow sooner than expected. </p><p>One helpful reference is to go back and look at Medidata. At the time Medidata was acquired in 2019, the business generated ~$700m of revenue with ~2/3rds of that coming from its EDC product.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-60" href="#footnote-60" target="_self">60</a> It also claimed that it had a market share of &#8220;probably more than half of all electronic trials globally.&#8221;<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-61" href="#footnote-61" target="_self">61</a> If we assume its market share was 60%, then the entire EDC market would have been ~$750m as of 2019. If we assume a 5% CAGR, the market would be ~$1bn today, which is what I assume in my TAM analysis.</p><p>We can then back into some of the other R&amp;D, product-level TAMs. If the EDC TAM is $1bn, that means the eCOA TAM is also ~$1bn and the RTSM TAM is maybe a little bigger than that. Given the commentary around LIMS, I&#8217;d expect it to be a similar size as well. This adds more comfort around the $13bn figure.</p><p>What would really add comfort around TAM, however, would be a clear expansion of it through AI. As discussed above, Gassner shared on Veeva&#8217;s most recent earnings call that he believes Veeva AI can make the life sciences industry 15% more efficient over just the next 5 years. If anything like that comes to fruition, and if Veeva is able to capture just a tiny bit of it, it would lead to very material TAM expansion.</p><p><em>Gassner is Getting Older, Wallach Already Left</em></p><p>At 60 years old, I would guess that Gassner probably has more than 5, but less than 10 years left in the CEO role. Co-Founder Matt Wallach already left in 2019.</p><p>My feeling is that Gassner is both very excited about the prospect of embedding AI throughout Veeva&#8217;s suite of offerings as well as taking on Salesforce with a horizontal CRM built on an entirely new platform. My understanding is that Gassner led the Force.com platform team for Salesforce as well as the PeopleTools platform at PeopleSoft. After building another platform in Vault, he now has a chance to build a fourth from scratch, leveraging everything he&#8217;s learned to date.</p><p>I expect he&#8217;ll want to see both of these initiatives through at least their initial phases over the next handful of years.</p><p><em>Poorly Executed M&amp;A</em></p><p>Veeva has built up a war-chest of $6bn in cash and generates over $1bn more in excess cash flow annually. Veeva mentions M&amp;A most often as a potential use for that cash. So poorly executed M&amp;A is a risk.</p><p>However, Veeva has proven to be a very careful acquirer. </p><p>Management highlights the Crossix deal as the type of transaction they seek. In Crossix&#8217; case, on top of it being (1) an industry-leading solution (2) at a reasonable price, (3) that was a strong strategic fit, (4) with a great team, it could also be (5) cross-sold to Veeva&#8217;s huge commercial customer base, and (6) used as the technology platform for its Compass products. In other words, it was clear that Crossix was going to add a ton of value &#8212; a &#8220;no brainer.&#8221;</p><p>With this type of discipline, if Veeva does acquire, I think it will likely by an intelligent use of capital. </p><p><em>Veeva &#8220;Fatigue&#8221;</em></p><p>It&#8217;s reasonable to think that customers might be experiencing some Veeva fatigue. How smart is it to go &#8220;all-in&#8221; with one provider across your entire commercial and R&amp;D functions? Is it smart for the industry to consolidate on one vendor and potentially stifle innovation and/or materially reduce bargaining power?</p><p>Factors that should help Veeva overcome this: (1) they have done right by customers in the past and have gone as far as converting to a PBC to ensure that they will do right by their customers &#8220;forever,&#8221;<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-62" href="#footnote-62" target="_self">62</a> (2) their products continue to be industry-leading, and (3) buying all your applications from one vendor (and having them integrate seamlessly) is actually an ideal scenario, all else equal.</p><p>In fact, there has been a string of customers going &#8220;all-in&#8221; on Veeva &#8212; essentially the opposite of Veeva fatigue.</p><ul><li><p>Merck. In Nov-22 Merck announced a 10-year strategic partnership in which Merck will &#8220;take a Veeva-first approach to new industry-specific software and data, selecting Veeva products when they are fit for purpose.&#8221; In exchange, Merck will receive a &#8220;strategic pricing approach&#8221; and will have input into Veeva&#8217;s product roadmap. Essentially Veeva is now in the highly unusual position of being the decider of whether its products are ready for Merck, not the other way around</p></li><li><p>Boehringer Ingelheim. In Mar-22, BI announced the &#8220;One Medicine Platform,&#8221; an initiative that involved going all in on Veeva across clinical ops, regulatory and quality. This platform went live in Mar-25</p></li><li><p>Another top 20 pharma went &#8220;all-in&#8221; in Q4&#8217;FY25 across clinical ops and data.</p></li></ul><p><em>Losing CRM Customers in its Vault CRM Migration</em></p><p>Veeva seems to have lost at least two of its top 20 CRM customers to Salesforce as part of the Vault CRM transition. The first was mentioned at a 12/11/24 Raymond James conference. Then on 5/19/25 it was announced that Takeda was leaving Veeva for Salesforce.</p><p>On the positive side, five top 20s have committed to the Vault CRM to date &#8212; GSK, Bayer, Novo Nordisk, Boehringer Ingelheim and Astellas.</p><p>My understanding is that Salesforce <a href="https://www.salesforce.com/news/press-releases/2024/04/08/iqvia-and-salesforce-expand-global-partnership-to-accelerate-the-development-of-life-sciences-cloud/">bought</a> IQVIA&#8217;s life science CRM solution named OCE in Apr-24, giving Salesforce an initial offering in the space (an updated product under the Salesforce umbrella has yet to be released). It does seem possible that by using OCE as the basis for its CRM, and by allowing IQVIA&#8217;s data to flow seamlessly through the product (IQVIA prohibits this on Veeva&#8217;s CRM), Salesforce would have a viable path to compete against Veeva.</p><p>However, I don&#8217;t foresee a material exodus to Salesforce. These initial losses were likely sweetheart deals from Salesforce to secure pilot customers, and they can only offer so many of these. I think the mountain to climb for Salesforce is very steep given (1) the fact that Salesforce would need to develop a whole suite of life-science specific commercial applications on top of just a pure CRM to really compete toe-to-toe<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-63" href="#footnote-63" target="_self">63</a><a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-64" href="#footnote-64" target="_self">64</a>, and (2) Salesforce has never been great a delivering vertical software and likely lacks the operational capabilities to pull something like this off.</p><p><em>AI-Native Competition</em></p><p>It feels like the consensus is shifting on incumbent SaaS vs. AI-natives. I think many/most believed initially that many incumbent SaaS providers would do just fine through the AI transition (data moats, switching costs). Now it seems those on the leading edge are warming up to the idea of AI-natives taking on SaaS incumbents across all categories.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!dt3G!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F5ca61007-32aa-415b-a3cd-95caa6702b9f_406x165.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!dt3G!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F5ca61007-32aa-415b-a3cd-95caa6702b9f_406x165.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!dt3G!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F5ca61007-32aa-415b-a3cd-95caa6702b9f_406x165.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!dt3G!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F5ca61007-32aa-415b-a3cd-95caa6702b9f_406x165.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!dt3G!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F5ca61007-32aa-415b-a3cd-95caa6702b9f_406x165.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!dt3G!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F5ca61007-32aa-415b-a3cd-95caa6702b9f_406x165.png" width="514" height="208.89162561576356" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/5ca61007-32aa-415b-a3cd-95caa6702b9f_406x165.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:165,&quot;width&quot;:406,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:514,&quot;bytes&quot;:26211,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/161907035?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F5ca61007-32aa-415b-a3cd-95caa6702b9f_406x165.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!dt3G!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F5ca61007-32aa-415b-a3cd-95caa6702b9f_406x165.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!dt3G!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F5ca61007-32aa-415b-a3cd-95caa6702b9f_406x165.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!dt3G!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F5ca61007-32aa-415b-a3cd-95caa6702b9f_406x165.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!dt3G!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F5ca61007-32aa-415b-a3cd-95caa6702b9f_406x165.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Pat Grady of Sequoia <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBvjcIqNvow&amp;t=16s">said recently</a> that after some initial skepticism, the firm has gotten &#8220;religion&#8221; around the idea of AI-natives being able to compete effectively in the traditional SaaS categories of CRM, HRM, ITSM, etc.</p><p>While something to monitor, I still think Veeva&#8217;s moats are too formidable for an AI-native to go toe-to-toe with them anytime soon in life sciences.</p><p><em>Future AI-Driven Tectonic Shifts </em></p><p>While not something I&#8217;m worried about near-term, over a long enough timeframe, could AI disrupt the very processes on which Veeva was built? For example, what happens if all doctors are replaced by AI &#8212; how do you sell drugs to an AI bot? What would happen to Veeva&#8217;s commercial suite? What if medicines become so personalized or our understanding of the human body (and the effects drugs have on it) becomes so advanced, that clinical trials are de-emphasized in some material way? </p><div><hr></div><h2>Market Overview </h2><p><em>Pharma Industry Growth</em></p><p>The pharma industry is projected to grow in the <strong>6-7% range</strong> over the next decade:</p><ul><li><p><a href="https://www.fortunebusinessinsights.com/prescription-drugs-market-102709">Fortune Business Insights</a>: $1.2tn in 2024 &#8594; $2.2tn by 2032, a CAGR of <strong>7.1%</strong></p></li><li><p><a href="https://www.biospace.com/press-releases/pharmaceutical-market-size-to-surpass-usd-2-82-trillion-by-2033">Cervicorn Consulting</a>: $1.8tn in 2025 &#8594; $2.8tn in 2033, a CAGR of <strong>5.8%</strong></p></li><li><p><a href="https://www.towardshealthcare.com/insights/pharmaceutical-market-sizing">Towards Healthcare</a>: $1.6tn in 2023 &#8594; $3.0tn by 2034, a CAGR of <strong>6.2%</strong></p></li><li><p><a href="https://www.biospace.com/u-s-pharmaceutical-market-size-to-reach-usd-1-093-79-billion-by-2033">Nova One Advisor</a>: $1.6tn in 2024 &#8594; $2.7tn by 2033, a CAGR of <strong>6.1%</strong></p></li></ul><p>Key drivers include: </p><ul><li><p>Aging populations and chronic diseases &#8212; more patients with diabetes, cancer, heart disease, etc. Older folks (65+) require orders of magnitude more spend on healthcare than young people, and the 65+ population globally is expected to more than double by 2050 (from 700m today to 1.5b in 2050)</p></li><li><p>&#8220;Pharmerging markets&#8221; &#8212; middle-income regions (China, India, Brazil, MIST countries) are expanding healthcare coverage and drug access</p></li><li><p>Growing pharmaceutical pipeline &#8212; in 2013, there were approximately 6,000 drug candidates in active clinical development worldwide. By 2023, this number had increased to over 21,000, a 250% increase. This expansion reflects intensified research efforts, particularly in oncology, rare diseases, and novel therapeutic modalities like gene and cell therapies</p></li><li><p>GLP-1s &#8212; injectable or oral medications that mimic a hormone (GLP-1) released by the gut after eating. These drugs produce better blood sugar control and significant, sustained weight loss. Analysts project that the global GLP-1 market could reach ~$100 billion annually by 2030, making it one of the largest therapeutic categories ever</p></li></ul><p>A growing pharma market will help Veeva, all else equal &#8212; more drugs to be trialed, manufactured, sold and monitored</p><p><em>Are We Entering a Golden Age of Drug Discovery?</em></p><p>It doesn&#8217;t seem unreasonable to think that the industry could be at an inflection point regarding drug discovery, driven by new, colliding technologies:</p><ul><li><p>Gene sequencing &#8212; the process of determining the exact order of DNA building blocks in an organism. The cost of sequencing has dropped from ~$100 million in 2003 (when the Human Genome Project was completed) to under $200 today, and it has become the foundation of modern drug discovery. It enables a shift from broad, trial-and-error medicine to precise, personalized, and genetically informed therapies. CRISPR and mRNA weren&#8217;t possible before it, and it fuels AI tools that mine genetic data to prioritize drug targets and design molecules. </p></li><li><p>AI / ML &#8212; From the <a href="https://www.economist.com/the-world-ahead/2024/11/20/ai-will-boost-drug-development-in-2025">Economist</a>: &#8220;In 2020, AlphaFold 2, a model made by DeepMind, an AI laboratory owned by Google, stunned the scientific world by accurately predicting the structure of nearly every protein in the human body. In May 2024 its successor, AlphaFold 3, expanded its capabilities to other molecules that make up living things: proteins, DNA, RNA and small molecules called ligands. <strong>Such models are changing drug development by reducing months of trial-and-error experiments to just hours of computation.</strong> Insilico, a startup that uses AI to develop drugs, says its software identified a new drug target and designed a molecule suitable for human trials in only 18 months and at a cost of $2.7m &#8212; a fraction of the usual time and expense required.&#8221; BCG estimated in 2024 that about 65 &#8220;AI-inspired&#8221; molecules were already in human trials as of 2023:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!JN3w!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff6e3dec6-6e12-430a-92aa-5b1cc7b0b0bf_398x462.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!JN3w!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff6e3dec6-6e12-430a-92aa-5b1cc7b0b0bf_398x462.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!JN3w!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff6e3dec6-6e12-430a-92aa-5b1cc7b0b0bf_398x462.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!JN3w!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff6e3dec6-6e12-430a-92aa-5b1cc7b0b0bf_398x462.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!JN3w!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff6e3dec6-6e12-430a-92aa-5b1cc7b0b0bf_398x462.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!JN3w!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff6e3dec6-6e12-430a-92aa-5b1cc7b0b0bf_398x462.png" width="398" height="462" 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff6e3dec6-6e12-430a-92aa-5b1cc7b0b0bf_398x462.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!JN3w!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff6e3dec6-6e12-430a-92aa-5b1cc7b0b0bf_398x462.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!JN3w!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff6e3dec6-6e12-430a-92aa-5b1cc7b0b0bf_398x462.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!JN3w!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff6e3dec6-6e12-430a-92aa-5b1cc7b0b0bf_398x462.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>One would expect this number to continue to grow exponentially. A host of buzzy new start-ups (like Isomorphic Labs and Xaira Therapeutics) have raised large sums to pursue AI-powered drug discovery. Many of these AI specialists have formed partnerships with the big pharma.</p></li><li><p>CRISPR &#8212; uses molecular &#8220;scissors&#8221; to cut DNA at specific sites and edit genes permanently, correcting genetic mutations and modifying cells (e.g. for cancer therapy). In late 2023 the FDA approved Casgevy, the first FDA-approved CRISPR/Cas9 treatment (for sickle cell disease), signaling that precise gene correction was officially clinically viable. Much more CRISPR (and base-editing) testing are underway for blood disorders, eye diseases, heart diseases, diabetes, cancer, congenital blindness, H.I.V., etc. According to the <a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/23/magazine/golden-age-medicine-biomedical-innovation.html">NYT</a>, &#8220;all told, some 400 million people worldwide are afflicted by one or more diseases arising from single-gene mutations that would be theoretically simple for Crispr to fix.&#8221; Just <a href="https://www.chop.edu/news/worlds-first-patient-treated-personalized-crispr-gene-editing-therapy-childrens-hospital">last month</a>, the world&#8217;s first patient was treated with personalized CRISPR gene editing therapy at the Children&#8217;s Hospital of Philadelphia.</p></li><li><p>mRNA &#8212; delivers temporary instructions to cells to make proteins, helping treat diseases. From the <a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/23/magazine/golden-age-medicine-biomedical-innovation.html">NYT</a>: &#8220;Drug-development timelines in previous history had swallowed whole decades; <strong>experts warned not to expect a resolution [a COVID vaccine] for years. But the mRNA sequence of the first shot was designed in a weekend</strong>, and the finished vaccines arrived within months, an accelerated timeline that saved perhaps several million American lives and tens of millions worldwide &#8212; numbers that are probably larger than the cumulative global death toll of the disease. The miracle of the vaccines wasn&#8217;t just about lives saved from Covid. As the first of their kind to be approved by the Food and Drug Administration, they brought with them <a href="https://www.technologyreview.com/2023/01/05/1066274/whats-next-mrna-vaccines/">a very long list</a> of potential future mRNA applications: H.I.V., tuberculosis, Zika, respiratory syncytial virus (R.S.V.), cancers of various and <a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/10/health/pancreatic-cancer-vaccine-mrna.html">brutal kinds</a>. And the vaccine innovations stretch beyond mRNA: A &#8220;world-changing&#8221; vaccine for malaria, which kills 600,000 globally each year, <a href="https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/nigeria-regulator-grants-approval-oxfords-malaria-vaccine-2023-04-17/">is being rolled out in Ghana and Nigeria</a>, and early trials for next-generation dengue vaccines suggest they may reduce symptomatic infection by 80 percent or more.&#8221;</p></li><li><p>Antibody&#8211;drug conjugates (ADCs) &#8212; are a class of targeted cancer therapies that combine the precision of antibodies with the potency of chemotherapy drugs &#8212; essentially acting as guided missiles that deliver toxic payloads directly to cancer cells. As of 2024, there are over a dozen FDA-approved ADCs and more than 100 in clinical trials. Pfizer acquired Seagen (a leader in ADCs) for ~$43 billion in 2023. Merck, Roche, and AstraZeneca are all heavily investing in ADC pipelines.</p></li></ul><p>A more vibrant industry should again be beneficial to Veeva. </p><p>Furthermore, as drugs become more specialized/personalized, this could have additional benefits for Veeva &#8212; finer targeting of patients will be increasingly important; more sales expertise could be required to educate HCPs on niche drugs; clinical trials will likely become more decentralized (and thus more tech-enabled) as patient populations become smaller &amp; harder to access; manufacturing/safety processes might become more complex.</p><p><em>Decentralization of Clinical Trials</em></p><p>From <a href="https://www.fiercepharma.com/sponsored/decentralized-clinical-trials-growing-trend-driving-improved-patient-outcomes">Fierce Pharma</a>: &#8220;Over the past few years, factors like the Covid-19 pandemic have accelerated the adoption of decentralized &#8212; or Virtual &#8212; clinical trials. This approach leverages advances in digital technologies, data collection and logistics capabilities to allow patients to participate in clinical trials from their own homes, rather than travelling to an investigator&#8217;s site or the nearest hospital. While a decentralized approach may not be suitable for every clinical trial, data from Accenture shows that 24% of clinical trial studies now offer a home-based solution, with that number expected to grow. Considering the positive impact that decentralization can have on patient engagement, and improving patient outcomes, it&#8217;s no surprise this is a trend we see on the rise.&#8221;</p><p>It&#8217;s probably fair to say that an increasing number of virtual/hybrid trials should work in favor of technology providers like Veeva, increasing the importance of tools like trial monitoring and collaboration (CTMS, eTMF) and remote data capture (EDC, ePRO).</p><p><em>Pharma Industry Woes</em></p><p>As someone who basically hasn&#8217;t spent any time looking at the pharma space, in digging deeper I was expecting to find a relatively healthy industry. But that&#8217;s not exactly what I found.</p><p>Here are 3 pharma ETFs vs. the S&amp;P over the last decade:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!e0Rj!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9f1600f7-df9e-43b8-9df3-8afac977590b_2400x1240.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!e0Rj!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9f1600f7-df9e-43b8-9df3-8afac977590b_2400x1240.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!e0Rj!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9f1600f7-df9e-43b8-9df3-8afac977590b_2400x1240.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!e0Rj!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9f1600f7-df9e-43b8-9df3-8afac977590b_2400x1240.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!e0Rj!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9f1600f7-df9e-43b8-9df3-8afac977590b_2400x1240.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!e0Rj!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9f1600f7-df9e-43b8-9df3-8afac977590b_2400x1240.png" width="1456" height="752" 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9f1600f7-df9e-43b8-9df3-8afac977590b_2400x1240.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!e0Rj!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9f1600f7-df9e-43b8-9df3-8afac977590b_2400x1240.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!e0Rj!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9f1600f7-df9e-43b8-9df3-8afac977590b_2400x1240.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!e0Rj!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9f1600f7-df9e-43b8-9df3-8afac977590b_2400x1240.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>The industry seems to be dealing with a mix of (1) ballooning costs to develop new drugs, (2) a lack of new &#8220;blockbuster&#8221; drugs (other than the GLP-1s) and (3) a looming wall of drugs that will be coming off patent (that amount to some <a href="https://www.biopharmadive.com/news/pharma-patent-cliff-biologic-drugs-humira-keytruda/642660/">~$200 billion</a> in annual sales). </p><p>Add in (4) a post-pandemic slowdown in vaccinations, (5) higher interest rates (and a resulting &#8220;<a href="https://www.wsj.com/articles/biotech-financing-slowdown-hits-early-stage-pharmaceutical-research-talking-markets-ef616a1f?gaa_at=eafs&amp;gaa_n=ASWzDAjrVL09bgOxB9OyNHis0DZw3HTfHLkTMzzmiXbfqgpfhwMRHJwz6aWwrVDPd9w%3D&amp;gaa_ts=684f941b&amp;gaa_sig=Ljj5xz-qT9y_oUO8HkjOAJZLQn83QtFwwzqus3aPe1pPDaWOGdiEo1p2eHt3_tbz5DUUDHkDCTargp13Fvfy4Q%3D%3D">funding winter</a>&#8221; for new biotechs), and (6) increased pricing pressure due to the US Inflation Reduction Act, which allows Medicare to negotiate some drug prices directly with pharma co&#8217;s &#8212; and you&#8217;ve got a recipe for tough times. To adapt, many have <a href="https://www.wsj.com/health/pharma/big-pharma-cuts-r-d-sending-shudders-through-industry-18fc4cf0?gaa_at=eafs&amp;gaa_n=ASWzDAif_UHWRbTrA4_q3T4-z6JcT9WSHHu6DoyajGLbOkAljZS--KGbK4dAL0YnKdg%3D&amp;gaa_ts=684f9402&amp;gaa_sig=uc2WXytvHEmQKyjizDlPXYLh5EgLXZ6Rgm0vX4RrTMKPGqU5FBtA-43V4LuH0dsfFxfj_wj8IV8Tk3toDgGfzg%3D%3D">cut costs</a> and streamlined R&amp;D pipelines. </p><p>While on one hand, this makes Veeva&#8217;s performance perhaps even more impressive. On the other, these pressures seem like they&#8217;ll continue weighing on the industry &#8212; which is not great for Veeva. </p><p>The industry seems to be dealing with a degree of &#8220;broken-ness&#8221; to the business model, where revenue from new medicines are not paying for the costs to develop them. From a recent Sequoia <a href="https://tedai-sanfrancisco.ted.com/speakers/stephanie-zhan/">presentation</a>:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!jrUS!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe1f920f7-a172-4d09-b963-33f1ede0943a_891x450.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!jrUS!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe1f920f7-a172-4d09-b963-33f1ede0943a_891x450.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!jrUS!, 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe1f920f7-a172-4d09-b963-33f1ede0943a_891x450.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!jrUS!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe1f920f7-a172-4d09-b963-33f1ede0943a_891x450.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!jrUS!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe1f920f7-a172-4d09-b963-33f1ede0943a_891x450.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!jrUS!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe1f920f7-a172-4d09-b963-33f1ede0943a_891x450.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>By their estimates, it currently costs $2-4bn and takes ~13 years to bring a new drug to market. However, given all these issues discussed above, this does appear to be an industry that&#8217;s very, very ripe for AI solutions to some of these problems.</p><h2>Conclusion</h2><p>Veeva is an example of owning a fantastic business at an &#8220;okay&#8221; price (assuming something like a $220-230 entry, currently). </p><p>It fits nicely with a strategy of avoiding losers while letting the winners &#8220;take care of themselves.&#8221; In other words, it seems unlikely that in a few years, you&#8217;d look back and be down materially on your position. While you could also not be up by much either, there are scenarios that would get you upwards of a 20% return &#8212; if R&amp;D revenue hits quickly, if the AI opportunity really turns into something, if horizontal CRM breaks through, etc.</p><p>It is also a bet that AI value will accrue to the &#8220;app layer&#8221; (as opposed to the &#8220;model layer&#8221; or the &#8220;infra layer&#8221;). The &#8220;app layer&#8221; is where most of the gains from the cloud era accrued, and many expect the same to play out in AI. </p><p>Veeva is clearly hyper focused on &#8220;automating&#8221; as much as it can within life sciences. Gassner on a May-22 Acquired podcast (6 mo before the ChatGPT &#8220;moment&#8221;):</p><blockquote><p><em>Q: &#8220;What makes the future of Veeva an A+? What's the like scenario where it goes incredibly well paint that for us&#8230;&#8221;</em></p><p><em>A: &#8220;<strong>A+ is we really help automate this big industry</strong>, right? It's a two two trillion dollar industry and if we can help to automate it and be that trusted partner that that is essential to that industry and using that word very specifically &#8212; essential &#8212; and appreciated. <strong>There's not been anything like that before where you're automating a whole industry in a meaningful way, right?</strong> And essential. You're gonna be a life sciences company? You&#8217;ve gotta use Veeva and man you like that. So that would be a big success.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>Veeva seems firmly on the path to achieving this to some degree, with AI now the big driving force. A company that was actually able to achieve this should do quite well over time, one would think.</p><div><hr></div><h2><strong>Important Disclaimer</strong></h2><p>This post is intended for informational purposes only and you, the reader, should not make any financial, investment, or trading decisions based upon the author's commentary.</p><p>Although the information set forth above has been obtained or derived from sources believed to be reliable, the author does not make any representation or warranty, express or implied, as to the information's accuracy or completeness, nor does the author recommend that the above information serve as the basis of any investment decision.</p><p>Before investing in a security, readers should carefully consider their financial positions and risk tolerances to determine if such a stock selection is appropriate. At any time, the author may trade in or out of any securities that are mentioned in the report as long or short positions in his portfolio without disclosing this information.</p><p>This report&#8217;s estimated fundamental value only represents a best efforts estimate of the potential fundamental valuation of a specific security, and is not expressed as, or implied as, assessments of the quality of a security or an actionable investment strategy for an investor.</p><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-1" href="#footnote-anchor-1" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">1</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;An so when a company would go all in with Veeva, <strong>we might replace 200 different pharma vendors</strong>&#8230;At most of the companies we went to, they spent more money integrating the different things that they bought than they did buying those things&#8230;So companies, the more they bought from Veeva, the more valuable it got.&#8221; <em>&#8212; Matt Wallach, Strategy at Scale podcast, Apr-25</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-2" href="#footnote-anchor-2" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">2</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>Discussing just the Regulatory suite:</p><p>&#8220;For regulatory, we have our RIM Suite or regulatory information management, and that's quite a mature product set. It's an industry-leading product for regulatory, but there's still a lot of legacy to replace because these are hard and difficult implementations, and the customer has to be ready to do it.</p><p>So for example, at a large pharma, <strong>we may replace 30 or more legacy systems, custom systems, packaged systems and all the integrations between them.</strong> So that's a lot of work. So there's a big mess to clean up in regulatory, and we're working our way through that. We have a great product and a great product team.&#8221; <em>&#8212; 2022 Investor Day</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-3" href="#footnote-anchor-3" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">3</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>Discussing just the Quality suite:</p><p>&#8220;And that's a strategic as you get &#8212; not to mention, <strong>most likely in a big pharma, this quality suite will replace probably at a minimum 40 separate applications and maybe up to 100 different applications.</strong></p><p>And you think about how that can; a, that's why you know it takes a while to do. But also that's how you know there's tremendous efficiency when you replace that many applications.&#8221; <em>&#8212; 2022 Investor Day</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-4" href="#footnote-anchor-4" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">4</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;It's underappreciated how hard it is to build an industry-specific CRM for life sciences. <strong>I mean if you think about it has to meet the regulations of Japan and Brazil and Germany, which are all different. It has to meet the needs of the state of Ohio, which is different than the state of New York. How you handle samples, how you share content in a highly regulated way, it's deep, it's hard.</strong> </p><p>And I think what you've seen, we had a competitor who tried to build on top of Force, and it didn't work out so well because it was hard. We lost a couple of customers and guess what? They came back to Veeva because they lost time. They lost time and efficiency in that move. So I think that's underappreciated how deep and complex the application is.&#8221; <em>&#8212; Mar-24 Morgan Stanley conference</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-5" href="#footnote-anchor-5" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">5</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;Safety means for a pharmaceutical company, they will have a drug, somebody might report an issue with that drug. They got sick if they took that drug. They had an adverse reaction to it. They would report that to a pharmaceutical company.</p><p>And that safety issue could occur in any country around the world. <strong>The pharmaceutical company has a duty then to analyze that and actually to report it to the right health authority all around the world and also to collect what's called the &#8216;signal.&#8217; They need to analyze all these different safety events coming in and try to see if they have a pattern.</strong> If they don't do that correctly, it's a big problem. [There] can be major fines.</p><p>It could result in real problems for patients as well. And it's very detrimental to the business. This is also sometimes called pharmacovigilance, this area. It's a really big, important area&#8221; <em>&#8212; 2017 Investor Day</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-6" href="#footnote-anchor-6" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">6</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;When you have an event and you have health care providers that come to an event, <strong>the legislation like the Sunshine Act requires that you track all of the spend against the health care provider and aggregate and allocate that spend to individuals who come.</strong> So they come to an event and they have a meal, you're allocating event cost and the cost of that meal to that individual person. <strong>And you have to roll all that information up across all the events they go to and every other activity that you do against them across your company.</strong> If you have that data in multiple different systems, it's very difficult to bring that all together and do things like compliance reporting. So the #1 driver for doing Events Management in a more consolidated way than what this company had, is compliance.&#8221; <em>&#8212; 2016 Investor Day</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-7" href="#footnote-anchor-7" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">7</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>Peter Gassner discussing their emerging suite of R&amp;D applications:</p><p>&#8220;Now if we can do that, <strong>this is really a franchise for Veeva for literally the next 30 years, at least</strong>. These are -- these systems are very sticky. Once you get them in, and they're working, you are not changing them. These are the heart of the drug development and safety process. So these are very significant applications.&#8221; &#8212; 2017 Investor Day</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-8" href="#footnote-anchor-8" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">8</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;We have a goal to be the leader and liked. We actually tell our customers about that and that holds us to a higher standard. &#8216;We want to be the leader and liked.&#8217; And then they bring that up sometimes, like &#8216;hey, that's not leader and liked!&#8217; &#8216;Oh god why did I tell you that?&#8217; It's a way to be set yourself out there.&#8221; <em>&#8212; May-22 Acquired podcast</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-9" href="#footnote-anchor-9" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">9</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;Now in our selling structure, we really take the long-term view of this. We're looking for 10-year-plus partnerships with customers. We're not looking for a transactional, hey, what's your sales quota this quarter, that type of thing. It doesn't play. It's not compatible. It's oil and water. You have to know what you're doing. Are you short-term transactional or are you long-term strategic? We're long-term strategic. We take that view in everything we do.</p><p>And <strong>we don't overcover with salespeople because that causes stress on your customers</strong>. If you have too many salespeople selling too many products that aren't ready, they're desperate. That causes frictions with the customer. <strong>That causes bad customer feeling.</strong> It's not good. So what we say is we don't overcover. Right amount of salespeople at the right time, definitely okay with sacrificing some top line revenue in the short term for long-term value. This is not new for us. This is always how we've operated.&#8221; <em>&#8212; 2016 Investor Day</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-10" href="#footnote-anchor-10" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">10</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;With sales you know we have a philosophy that we say <strong>we don't overcover</strong>. So we want to leave topline revenue on the table. We don't want to get all the topline revenue, because if we if we push all the way for that, we will get some inefficiencies and that's not so good, but also <strong>we will get bad customer feeling. Because a desperate rep will do desperate things. And the rep's in front of the customer and they'll feel it.</strong> You don't want those desperate things do you? No, because for us we have many customers that are you know they're over well over $20 million a year customers for us. These are 20-year relationships, do we want somebody in there saying I got to close this thing this quarter because of my commission and I don't really care that you're paying us $20 million a year. So the way you do that, is you sacrifice topline revenue and you don't put too many reps out there. So then the rep is not desperate&#8230;&#8221; <em>&#8212; Aug-17 SaaStr conference</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-11" href="#footnote-anchor-11" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">11</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>Veeva achieves a leading payback number despite a very complex, field-heavy sales team. David Skok of Matrix Partners <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCBccKfG9U0&amp;t=965s">once</a> laid out an illustrative chart on CAC vs. the complexity of a sale (see below). Field sales, he found, generally led to a many-orders-of-magnitude larger CACs vs. a freemium or no-touch model. </p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!xnjG!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F82f60cdc-1a35-43b2-8165-41386f061186_300x378.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!xnjG!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F82f60cdc-1a35-43b2-8165-41386f061186_300x378.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!xnjG!, 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y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Despite this very significant disadvantage, Veeva essentially beats all it&#8217;s high-quality SaaS peers on CAC payback.</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-12" href="#footnote-anchor-12" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">12</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;The industry &#8212; it's not recession-proof, but very recession-resistant. This is not like airlines or hotels or luxury items, things like that, restaurants. <strong>People need their medicine in good times and bad.</strong> Medicine is a critical part of health care.</p><p>Without medicines, health care costs go up, et cetera. So the spending doesn't change too much. The segment where it is affected a little bit is in smaller private companies that if the funding environment goes down, they can't get as much funding. They have to be more conservative with their expansions.</p><p>And then I would say the last thing is the type of products we do. <strong>They are mission-critical systems of record. Good times or bad, you need your clinical trial management system. Just like you need your financial system and you need your ERP system.</strong> What you may not need is the speculative piece of technology or add on, on the top of that.</p><p>That's maybe what you don't need. And we focus really on system of records. So we have that going in favor for us. So I think a lot of things going in our favor for stability. We do best in times of relative stability.</p><p>When things go booming up fast, maybe that's not actually the best for Veeva. And when things downturn a bit, maybe that's not all the best for Veeva either. We operate the best when things are pretty stable.&#8221; <em>&#8212; Q3&#8217;FY23 earnings</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-13" href="#footnote-anchor-13" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">13</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>Note the category of &#8220;drug development systems&#8221; does not include software for research or &#8220;pre-clinical&#8221; use cases, but solely for the clinical trials-and-onward portion of drug development.</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-14" href="#footnote-anchor-14" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">14</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;So I'll call out Crossix&#8230;It's for health care marketing specific to the United States, so we can measure when there's a TV ad, for example, does that TV ad lead to what type of patients, seeing what type of specialists and getting on what type of therapy.</p><p>So that's very, very, very specialized. It's a way to understand if I'm spending $100 million on digital marketing, is it being effective or not, and monitoring and changing that. You can imagine how different that piece of software is from our CRM system &#8212; very, very different, but we're the leaders in both of those areas.&#8221; <em>&#8212; Jan-24 JPM Conference</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-15" href="#footnote-anchor-15" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">15</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;We have OpenData, which is our reference data. So that's the core reference data, list of doctors, hospitals, how they relate to each other, what are the specialties, et cetera, in more than 100 countries across the globe.</p><p>That's used for compliance in sales and marketing. We're going to extend that to the clinical area that's to be used in operating your clinical trials, who are the clinical research sites and investigators? <strong>So this is the encyclopedia rather than each pharma company or biotech company creating their own encyclopedia.</strong> So that's reference data.&#8221; <em>&#8212; Jan-24 JPM Conference</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-16" href="#footnote-anchor-16" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">16</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;Link is deep data&#8230;a large corpus of data, complicated data model curated by Veeva, a curated data model with a very specialized interface on top of it, user interface. So you could consider it sort of something like a Bloomberg Terminal. The first and most advanced Link application is called Key People. That's an application that lets our pharmaceutical companies that are our customers keep track of the 1 million or so key opinion leaders around the world and follow them and what are they doing and who are the emerging key opinion leaders and quickly understand what they're doing. <strong>So sort of like a curated LinkedIn on steroids, if you would say, that's very, very specific to life sciences.</strong></p><p>We have a few thousand people, data stewards and machine learning algorithms, that are curating this type of data every day. They're not our employees, they are contractors, and it's a balance of humans, very specialized humans doing specific tasks and machine learning automation. We're going to extend Link to the clinical areas as well. You'll see that theme in the data we started in the commercial area. We're going to extend to clinical.&#8221; <em>&#8212; Jan-24 JPM Conference</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-17" href="#footnote-anchor-17" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">17</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;This is an example of the shift that's happening in the industry from where the primary set of data used to be from the electronic data capture. Literally, the patient going into a research site the researcher measuring something about the patient and entering it into a system, and that was the vast majority of data to run a trial. That has changed, as you know, with everything you just described, that patient being more distributed, not having to go into the office, doing wearables, maybe doing self-reported data about -- that they don't even have to go into the clinical research Stage IV and doing that in a very distributed, decentralized way. But also their lab work and imaging and all of the other things that happen around that patient are critical to the clinical trial.</p><p>And Veeva is taking a different approach. Instead of just doing the EDC, which is 1 -- it's an important part of the data, but it's not everything. We are connecting, we're helping to collect data from these other sources like patient-reported outcomes like data from a wearable, for example, and bring all that data together and mash it together to make it easier to analyze because the results of the trial are based on the full view of all of the data that you need. And today, that's very, very hard to do, especially if all you do is electronic data capture. So you mentioned CDB, the clinical database, it's bring -- the clinical database solves exactly that problem.</p><p>So we're going squarely after the complexity of the trial, the consumption and the analysis of all of those data sets, and then using technology to simplify that rather than this being kind of a one-off services-based project, we want it to be solved with the technology.&#8221; &#8212; <em>Jun-23 Baird conference</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-18" href="#footnote-anchor-18" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">18</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;So we started an application called QualityDocs. That's what you would consider SOP management or standard operating procedure management. There's a procedure in there for cleaning a certain machine that might be very critical, right? To change control around that, the ability to track who knows that. That's where we started.</p><p>And then QMS, right? This is a quality management system, things like what's called capitals deviations when you have a quality problems, how you're tracking resolve that. So those, by the way, never have been done together in a common data model by any software vendor because those are very, very different applications. You can't do it unless you have a platform like Vault that both handles content and data, you can't do it. So we did that.</p><p>Now then we put training in there. Training is a super important thing. And a company like, for example, AstraZeneca, can you imagine the criticality of training? And now we're adding what's called QC LIMS in there. We're just looking for our first early adopters there, that's maybe the biggest application of them all in the quality area. That's for the workflow around testing &#8212; during and after the manufacturing process &#8212; quality controls, because when you're making a medicine that goes into the human body, you better believe that's tested rigorously, right, for I think, for very obvious reasons...</p><p>So that's why I'm excited about quality, and that's why you saw it in a lower quadrant because the application, for example that we just introduced, just looking for first adopters is actually the biggest application of them all.</p><p>So what this leads into? &#8230;When we had our customer summit recently and we had the head of quality for actually, I believe that was AstraZeneca, talking on the business side. What they explained is this quality system can improve quality at their company by developing a quality mindset. So it's that strategic.&#8221; <em>&#8212; 2022 Investor Day</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-19" href="#footnote-anchor-19" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">19</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;LIMS is interesting. It is for testing materials, largely pharmaceutical companies, biotechs that make materials in batches. They're not making units, they're making batches, batches of things that then would be packaged. And serious things that are either ingested or intravenous into the human body. So the quality of them is super important for obvious reasons.</p><p>LIMS is laboratory information management system, what we call QC or quality control LIMS. That's where you keep the specifications of how you should test this medicine along the way of its life cycle. During its multi-day, could be weeks, process of making this medicine in a batch, what tests should be done? And there's a whole variety of tests, some as simple as what's the color in the pH, to some very sophisticated tests.</p><p>Those specifications have to be designed and approved in the system and then data is entered in either through APIs or manual. And that's the quality control process. That's a big part of the quality control process that then is used to see, hey, can we release this medicine in this market to be ingested or injected into humans.</p><p>Very important area and we're going to build it inside of our quality Vault, which means it will become unified with our QMS system, our QualityDocs system and our training system. Nobody has ever done anything like that before. And I think it's going to be a real transformation in the quality control processes in life sciences, which will allow people to release their medicines faster, which is a real &#8212; it keeps the company much more agile.</p><p>So this is very much top of mind in the supply chain area of our customer supply chain and manufacturing. It's a big product. It'll be 1 of our biggest ticket items in the quality suite. It's definitely not an add-on product to QMS or something like that.&#8221; <em>&#8212; Q4&#8217;FY23 earnings</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-20" href="#footnote-anchor-20" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">20</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;We like to do what we say we're going to do. In 2015, we announced the goal of $1 billion. In 2015, we said we'd get to $1 billion revenue. We said our goal is to get to $1 billion revenue in 2020. And we reached that a year early. So we reached that in 2019. In 2019 then, we set a new 5-year goal of $3 billion revenue and we're about 1 year ahead of that plan. And we're looking forward to 2030, right? Hopefully, if we can meet our 2025 goal, we'll make a 2030 goal.&#8221; <em>&#8212; Jan-23 JPM Conference</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-21" href="#footnote-anchor-21" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">21</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>Dylan Becker</p><p>&#8220;Got it. Very helpful. So that's a lot, but that's just half of the business, right? So let's talk about the R&amp;D side. There's a number of new products here and to your point, moving from a point solution to a multiproduct strategy here.</p><p>Can we walk through each of the components within the R&amp;D suite kind of clinical data management, maybe where each of those fits on that maturity curve and the value of the tightly integrated nature of each of these solutions as well?&#8221;</p><p>Brent Bowman</p><p>&#8220;Yes. We'd like to say we planted the seeds for growth. You probably heard that before. But it's a good analogy. We started back in 2012, '13, with our documentation products.</p><p>And think about on the clinical side with eTMF and on the quality side with QualityDocs and the regulatory side with Regulatory Submissions. Those products are the largest contributors to our current revenue today. Those are still growing businesses , but they &#8212; those seeds were planted over 10 years ago. So really excited about that.</p><p>So because we do have, like I said, seeds at different parts of their evolution and their life cycle. The next set of products are really around the operations side. Think about the heartbeat of a clinical operations. So we have software that does that. It's called CTMS.</p><p>And I apologize for the alphabet soup, but it is what it is. And then on the quality side, the quality management system, it's running the quality operations.</p><p>So those products are really hitting the sweet spot of the growth curve right now and contributing nicely to the growth in '24 and '25 as well. <strong>And then what gives us real excitement is our largest applications from a market opportunity, from a TAM perspective, are really just in their infancy.</strong> So you talk about clinical data, so our electronic data capture product, and that's under a suite called CDMS, really still early days. We have 6 of the top 20 that have agreed to start all new trials on Veeva.</p><p>You don't cut over mid trial. It just doesn't make sense on multiple dimensions. So those 6 have agreed over a period of time. And this could be 3, 4, 5 years to get all the trials on to Veeva, but it's happening. And so it's really exciting.</p><p>Safety is another example. We had our second top 20 win in the quarter. Safety is a very risk-adverse area. So we start to see the momentum. <strong>Once you get second, third, top 20, that reference selling model really starts kicking in because you can't afford to not be on the best software.</strong></p><p>So all this being said, we're creating the operating system for drug development.</p><p>We're the only software provider that can actually run the gamut between clinical, regulatory, manufacturing on the quality safety side. And it's all connected on the Vault platform. So our focus is to have best-of-breed app the application level, but also connected. Your alternative is to buy from disparate vendors in all those spaces because there's no other vendor that can go end to end and then you have to find a way -- figure out how to stitch it together. So the value proposition is pretty clear there.&#8221;</p><p>Dylan Becker</p><p>&#8220;And sticking with that, too, obviously, right, there are different maturity levels of each of those, but you've seen significant success with the regulatory suite, the quality suite, et cetera, the more established offerings. How do you think about that cross-sell and that attach within that? Serving as maybe like a springboard for what you've talked about in CTMS, clinical data management because you're kind of not flying blind, you have an indication from customers of what they want, and what you can develop?&#8221;</p><p>Brent Bowman</p><p>&#8220;No, it's absolutely true. And if you just stick with clinical for a second, and I'll throw out some numbers that kind of gives you a good example of that. So we have 18 of the top 20 on our clinical documentation product, eTMF. We have 11 of the top 20 on our clinical operation products, CTMS. We have 6 of the top 20 in our clinical data product.</p><p>The only difference is time and market, but they see the value of that unified clinical suite of products. And then you can take that again outside of that and cut across regulatory safety and quality. So you can start in any one area, but there is that network effect that you see because of that connected nature.&#8221; <em>&#8212; Jun-23 Blair Conference</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-22" href="#footnote-anchor-22" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">22</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>Saket Kalia</p><p>&#8220;Okay. Great. Apologies in advance if these questions have been asked, but I'm going to try it anyway. Peter, maybe first for you, great to see the growth in the EDC customer base. I think you said you added 8, right, in the quarter.</p><p>Maybe the question for you is, are there any commonalities that you're seeing across some of those wins, whether it's coming from 1 or 2 specific competitors or maybe a common reasoning that you're seeing those customers choose to switch? Any observations that you would make just as you look at a bigger EDC customer base now?&#8221;</p><p>Peter Gassner</p><p>&#8220;Yes, there are some commonalities. I would say the bulk of them are either coming from Medidata, which is the leading by volume in industry solutions, or they're coming from a series of smaller competitors that are targeted for the SMB.</p><p>As it relates to Medidata, I would say, they like the EDC solution from Veeva, but they also like the integration with our clinical operations suite. In the EDC solution, why they like our solution better at times, sometimes is &#8212; and that will be the primary driver. It's a specific, what I would call meat and potatoes things, for example, when you do a study amendment, you change the design of the study many times with competitive solutions, you have to unload the data, reload the data, the site can't &#8212; the clinical research site can't operate during that time with Veeva because of the newer architecture that doesn't happen. We also are able to -- through the use of our tooling, our customers can build their studies, can define their studies dramatically faster, they might do 4 weeks instead of 8 weeks. And then the way that Veeva system works, has less custom programming.</p><p>There's custom programming needed in these other solutions. That is expensive, but also [indiscernible] specialized skill, you don't need that, you can define that in Veeva. So these very specific things. And then as to why they would use Veeva instead of maybe smaller SMB solutions, I think, again, they would like to get solutions from 1 partner that fits together. And that's what we do.</p><p>A good example of that is we have a great clinical trial management system, and we have a great EDC system. You don't have to use both if you use both or better together. Our ePRO system and our RTSM system, they work fine if you don't have our EDC. They don't require our EDC at all. They're the best stand-alone, and nobody else has done that before, right?</p><p>Nobody else that has an EDC product. But if you have all of our products, the integration is even better and it's just easier to get these solutions from an integrated solution from 1 company. So that's what our &#8212; what we're seeing. People want a broad clinical partner where all of the applications are excellent, and that's what they can find in Veeva.&#8221; <em>&#8212; Q2&#8217;FY24 earnings</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-23" href="#footnote-anchor-23" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">23</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;Medidata is now just competing on price. It's only a matter of time. It's price and habit, so that's it&#8230;<strong>It's just a matter of time before this Veeva juggernaut just squeezes them out. I'll tell you, Medidata is not putting any more investment into the product</strong>.&#8221; <em>&#8212; Tegus, Former VP of Enterprise CRM Strategy at Veeva, Nov-24</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-24" href="#footnote-anchor-24" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">24</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;EDC and the data from EDC flows into the clinical database and the patient-reported outcomes that come from our ePRO product have to end up in the clinical database also in the CDB and it's also related to the randomization that happens, the distribution of the medicines to the right patients obviously impacts the milestones and the trials and the data that you capture. <strong>So all of these things are interconnected.</strong> So our strategy is, as you &#8212; as a customer establishes &#8212; it starts in a specific place, happens to be EDC is leading those because it's been in the market longer. Adding the next one becomes even more valuable. And that's what &#8212; that's the benefit of these integrated suites of applications. We've seen that play out in many different areas. It's playing out in quality. It's playing out in clinical. It's played out in the commercial side in different parts of our business. <strong>So that gives us this unique advantage</strong>.&#8221; <em>&#8212; Jan-24 Needham conference</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-25" href="#footnote-anchor-25" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">25</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;I guess to step back, where we have a safety application that's a very complex applications, it's case processing of what's called adverse events. Somebody takes a medicine and they either have a bad reaction or they think they have a bad reaction and then has to be classified and routed and recorded to health authorities, et cetera, around the world. So it's a very complex application. <strong>We're really the first company able to do that as a cloud-native application.</strong></p><p>That means just like we do everything else, there's one version of the code and all customers run it. So that's a breakthrough. Our customers are used to on-premise applications, they have to have upgrade, lots of issues. Now that this customer is live, it's a top 20, one of the larger top 20 customers, now there's proof that, that works. And I think, I wouldn't say all the way, <strong>but mainly customers are thinking, I probably will go with Veeva for safety.</strong></p><p>And then the question is when. Is it next year? Is it 3 years from now, 5 years from now, 7 years from now? So that's really the significance of it.</p><p>Now we have, of course, the work's never done. I'll never be satisfied with our safety application side. It always has to get better and better and better. But it was a very significant milestone for the industry and for Veeva. And also just the other thing I'd add, the speed that, that implementation happened, I won't quote the exact numbers of days, was probably about half the time that most customers would have expected that it would have taken. So that was also seriously noticed by the industry.&#8221; <em>&#8212; Q3&#8217;FY23 earnings</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-26" href="#footnote-anchor-26" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">26</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>Anne McCormick</p><p>&#8220;You highlighted that your safety solutions are approaching a tipping point, and I was wondering if maybe you could provide a little bit more color about what that means. And then could you just remind us of the relative size of this market, what's the unmet need, and where Veeva is differentiated here?&#8221;</p><p>Peter Gassner</p><p>&#8220;Yes. So it's more of a feeling when you're approaching a tipping point, it's a little bit different than being at the tipping point. So it's the level of depth of the customer conversations we're having in multiple large customers. <strong>Every year, the legacy systems that they're using are aging a little bit. And every year, our cloud-based solutions are getting better and they're getting more optimized and more people are using them.</strong></p><p>And it's just kind of like that. <strong>You have a feeling that the tipping point is coming.</strong> We've also filled out our suite. We have our core safety processing application, which we've had for some time, but now we have Safety Signal and Safety Workbench available. Those are &#8212; so those are things they need.</p><p>And in terms of what they're looking for is, a, they do want a cloud-based system because they don't &#8212; the idea of doing upgrades and taking changes in [indiscernible] stuff is unappealing. A lot of these systems are legacy and aging. So there's, one, just modernization. <strong>But the second one is advanced automation. Within the safety system to do some things without manual intervention and then across systems, for example, between clinical data management and the safety system, there's a lot of innovation that we can do because we have both sides of those applications.</strong></p><p>So they're looking for automation, not to take the people totally out of the loop, because the people have to be in the loop to know what's going on so that they can care and notice and act appropriately, but to free them up from the redundant activities that they don't need to be doing.&#8221; <em>&#8212; Q3&#8217;FY25 earnings</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-27" href="#footnote-anchor-27" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">27</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>Ryan MacDonald</p><p>&#8220;Safety continues to be an interesting area of opportunity. And Brian, you just mentioned it's a sort of a deep area but maybe slower moving than historically. And I know Peter has definitely talked about how complicated that segment with customers are resistant to change, essentially, in safety. Are you starting to see signs of this resistance to change, softening at all? And if so, like as you've had discussions with customers, what do you think the great unlock is to sort of drive a faster rate of change in the safety market?&#8221;</p><p>Paul Shawah</p><p>&#8220;Yes. So it is somewhat of a conservative market where they want to get something in place and they don't want to touch it or don't want to change it. But the reality is requirements change, they have to move, they have to evolve it. And doing it with a modern cloud system like safety, like Vault Safety, is a whole lot better. <strong>So at some point, it gets to the point where it's too painful to maintain the old thing and it's much better to move at once to transform and become more efficient with Vault.</strong></p><p><strong>I think we're at that &#8212; we're very close to that tipping point, right?</strong> We're starting to see that. We have 3 top 20s. We've executed very well. The industry was watching.</p><p>Because these are hard projects to do, right? It's a hard product to build. And it's an important process to get right. And now we're past that point. <strong>So you can kind of think of this as like the EDC market playing out.</strong></p><p>We had a couple &#8212; we had 2 top 20 EDCs that we won. It took us a couple of years to kind of get those live and happy and referenceable and then talking up on a big stage. And we're starting to hit that point in safety. So I feel really good about where we are. And I would say the other thing we've done in safety is not only -- beyond just kind of advancing the core product, is delivering and building out the suite.</p><p>So Safety Docs and Signal and Workbench, this is now very unique. It's that unique value proposition of having the suite of products all working together. <strong>So yes, we're more and more bullish on where safety is in its life cycle.&#8221; </strong><em><strong>&#8212; </strong>Jan-25 Needham Conference</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-28" href="#footnote-anchor-28" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">28</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>Craig Hettenbach</p><p>&#8220;In the R&amp;D segment and understanding the ramping EDC deals are a nice tailwind in the next number of years. Outside of that, any particular areas within R&amp;D that you're most excited about next 1 or 2 years that you expect to really drive growth in that segment?&#8221;</p><p>Peter Gassner</p><p>&#8220;In 1 or 2 years. I would say you're right about the EDC, the clinical data management to drive growth. I think the newer products and clinical operations as well. The study training and the Site Connect, I think those are prime to contribute quite well there. <strong>Also, a lot of our large &#8212; in terms of revenue, are large ramping CTMS deals and QMS deals, right, that are still ramping.&#8221; </strong><em><strong>&#8212; </strong>2024 Investor Day</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-29" href="#footnote-anchor-29" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">29</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;We said leadership means 40% or more market share. <strong>Because if you have 40%, you're probably going to be the leader in your -- it means you're going to have somewhere between 40% to 100% over time. That's how that works.</strong> If I look at those products, any product we make, I think there's a network effect. So I think we have a good chance to be at 40% or more leader. </p><p>And I think I didn't think we -- when we started, I thought it's most likely going to be more of a duopoly type of thing. It turns out there's usually 1 lead dog. And that's how it works. So I don't think there's any difference in any of those products.</p><p>There's no structural thing that says, hey, this product area should have 7 providers of equal magnitude. It's not like that. The relentless pursuit of excellence. The markets you can't put enough effort to make 7 great products. The economics don't work out.&#8221; &#8212; <em>2022 Investor Day</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-30" href="#footnote-anchor-30" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">30</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>Craig Hettenbach</p><p>&#8220;And then just switching gears back to some of the questions on the data business in commercial. Can you touch on just how you're thinking about just from a timeline perspective when you could see some inflection in that business?&#8221;</p><p>Peter Gassner</p><p>&#8220;I'll take that one. Real inflection, I do think will be &#8212; first, it's going to be customer success wise and product excellence. And that, I think, we'll have a pretty good view about 12 months from now, really. Now that is going to lead the financial significance by a long way. <strong>So it will be multiple years from now before &#8212; Compass is not going to be a $60 million business, even a $50 million business.</strong></p><p>It's not going to be that anytime soon, anytime in the next few years. So that's how long of a path these things are. The leading indicator will be the customer success and the customers &#8212; and it would start probably with the very small biotechs who can &#8212; who would say, &#8216;Hey, I run my business, and I don't use any IQVIA data products.&#8217; That's &#8212; I just use the Veeva data products and I'm happy with that.</p><p>And I'm able to see things that I couldn't see before. That's when you know you have something. So those are the things that we're really looking for every day trying to optimize for, trying to listen for, trying to make changes, so we can arrive at that next year.&#8221; <em>&#8212; Q2&#8217;FY24 earnings</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-31" href="#footnote-anchor-31" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">31</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;We're taking a patient-centric approach, patient-centric as opposed to prescription-centric. So the legacy providers, I think in the approach of aggregating and syndicating data from all of the retail pharmacies. Now that's prescription-centric.</p><p><strong>We're taking a patient-centric approach, which is looking at diagnoses and procedures and prescriptions, and we're assembling that around a complete view of the patient, which is better for today's more modern medicines.</strong> The precision medicines and specialized medicines that we talked about earlier, they need something that's more patient-centric and patient-specific, and that's what we're doing with patient data.</p><p>And that's proving out to be very valuable. For our early customers that are using it, they're finding more health care professional targets that they can call on. So this data is more valuable for how they segment and target their customers.&#8221; <em>&#8212; 2021 Investor Day</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-32" href="#footnote-anchor-32" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">32</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;So if you're getting data from three different sources, that they're somewhat overlapping, you have a better chance of getting data quality. And this is one of the reasons why we can project data for medical claims, which is &#8212; it might be something that's done in an infusion center.</p><p>We can also project for something that you pick up at Walgreens or CVS. Why? Well, because we're sourcing data from multiple points along the line. So the real benefit is more holistic view of the patient, <strong>we can project data for over 4,000 brands. You can't do that if you're just projecting based on a few large retailers' data</strong>, you can't do that. Because if you look at 20 years ago or 25 when these legacy data products were started, or even when Veeva started in 2007, the biggest brand at the time was Lipitor and you got Lipitor at the drugstore. The biggest brand now is Keytruda and you don't just walk into the drugstore and get that. It doesn't work that way &#8212; or HUMIRA, et cetera. </p><p><strong>So ours is a modern approach that I think is the only way really to do it well for today's complex therapies.</strong> And I do think we'll have lower data cost over time. I do think that, but I don't have to prefer that.&#8221; <em>&#8212; Q4&#8217;FY24 earnings</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-33" href="#footnote-anchor-33" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">33</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;Whether we like IQVIA or not from the industry, they have a very strong legacy of data dominance out there. Data being the switch from any data providers to another data providers is higher than a CRM because data is flowing everywhere in the entire organization. <strong>It's almost like you are changing the blood of a human being</strong> because it's flowing across all the body parts. If you think of CRM, it's just the arms, let's say the R&amp;D is the chest. If CRM is the arm, then you can just replace the arm. <strong>On the data side it's going through the body, the legs and everywhere. It's very entrenched on the data side.</strong>&#8221; <em>&#8212; Tegus, Former Dr Product Mgmt at Veeva, Jan-25</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-34" href="#footnote-anchor-34" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">34</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;If you look at that $2 trillion, roughly, roughly 1/4 of that. <strong>Slightly less than 1/4 of that is medical device of some type or another.</strong> So it's an area that we'll focus on. We didn't focus on it so far purely because of customer success. But if you get in too fast, too far, you don't actually go faster, you go slower. So now we're ready and we're really excited about it.&#8221; <em>&#8212; 2019 Investor Day</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-35" href="#footnote-anchor-35" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">35</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;We announced MedTech CRM. Well, we've been working our way in that market and adapting really good. We have a great team working on that, and we decided there we're going to go do it a little different than we've done it in other places. We really went deep into the product for about the last 9 months or so. This is a very deep product MedTech CRM. </p><p>So order management specific to MedTech, inventory management, trunk inventory, all that kind of opportunity management, compliant content, right, a lot of stuff in there. And we've developed that deep in the app, and we just signed our first early adopter there. And interestingly enough, they also got at the same time, Link for MedTech. Now that's with a pretty large multibillion-dollar MedTech company, but again, in a small group, right, and we got to grow there. So yes. I think we're planting the seeds.&#8221; &#8212; 2022 Investor Day</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-36" href="#footnote-anchor-36" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">36</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>David Hynes</p><p>&#8220;And maybe one on marketing automation. So you talked about in the past, partnering with Salesforce and Adobe. I think of kind of marketing automation infrastructure as being generally horizontal, right? When you talk about building a verticalized effort in that space that, I guess, displaced some of those relationships? Like what does that entail? How does the product differentiate that positions you to win?&#8221;</p><p>Paul Shawah</p><p>&#8220;Yes. You're right. We've had -- we partnered with Salesforce and Adobe. We'll continue to have customers who choose to use them. <strong>We're going to create something that's much more integrated into the commercial cloud.</strong></p><p>It will be tightly integrated into CRM. That's a big thing, right, because a lot of our &#8212; a lot of the solutions that exist today, they're stand-alone. They don't connect in. And they're actually over-architected for what the life sciences industry needs. <strong>So we're going to build more precisely what life sciences needs.</strong></p><p>I'll give you an example of something that we do in core CRM. In core CRM, you have field teams that use content to talk to doctors, and it's important that, that content is very specific to, let's say, the specialty of that doctor. That's a regulation. You can't show content that's approved for an oncology medicine to, let's say, a general practitioner or pediatrician. That's something that's built into the application.</p><p><strong>We would build that kind of thing into the marketing automation system to make sure those rules are respected. That will just be a standard part of the product.</strong> It's one example. But &#8212; so we'll focus it. We'll make it life sciences specific and it will be tightly integrated and it will give our customers choice.</p><p>And the idea here is we want to build out a full and more complete commercial cloud and marketing is a key part of that.&#8221; <em>&#8212; 2023 Investor Day</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-37" href="#footnote-anchor-37" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">37</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;For example, this marketing automation that we're building, I think <strong>it could be extra, extra, extra innovative because it will be life sciences specific</strong>, it will be regionally aware which is the way you do this stuff in Japan and Germany and the U.S. is quite different in life sciences. And it will be aware of the field, the sales team.</p><p>So you could use our marketing automation to inform your sales team of marketing for sure, but let your sales team control some part of marketing or you could use a campaign to control your sales team, all opposite because they're all operating on the same data, the same segment. <strong>So it's like having Marketo inside of Salesforce.com and industry specific.</strong> That's not been done before.&#8221; <em>&#8212; Q4&#8217;FY24 earnings</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-38" href="#footnote-anchor-38" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">38</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;The platform, to understand it, first of all, it's for us. It's for Veeva. It helps us build applications quickly and of high quality and very efficient. That's how we're able to build all those applications you saw, all those big applications. Some companies just struggle just to build one good application.</p><p>We have 14 Vault applications now, and that's because of the platform. Fundamentally, much of the code, we can write once in the platform, so we don't have to write it everywhere else. That means you can write it faster. You can focus and have good quality. When you improve your core platform, you're improving all of your applications.</p><p>This is a tough thing to build a good cloud platform because you have to use it for developing your own applications and then you have to upgrade and push out the applications. So it's a very interesting thing. All great application companies are going to have one of these. If you show me a company that has acquired lots of different products and/or has built them on different platforms, it's not going to be a good application company. It's not going to have scale.</p><p>It's going to break down over time. There's just no way to do it. So we have one, takes a long time to build, but we have one. For our customers, they don't really care how we build the applications. They assume it's going to be great.</p><p>They want to use it. But for the customer, it's about the ability to customize their applications, and that's built into the platform, to really change what they need to in that application without breaking the upgrade. They need to integrate with it in a consistent way, consistent set of web services APIs, developer programs, documentation, et cetera. And they need to extend it to create their new tabs, their new objects, to do the things that they need to do. And they get a lot of leverage out of a platform.</p><p>If they have multiple applications from Veeva all in the Vault Platform, they start to have common skills on how do I do reporting on these applications? How do I administer security? How do I do an audit? How do I do web services integrations with it? It's the same thing why people like the SAP platform or they like the Workday platform.</p><p>What's -- so it's really simple, right? If you don't have one of these great platforms, you don't have a great application company&#8230;</p><p>When you look in a little deeper, different cloud platforms, all the application platforms, they all have their different specialties. There are areas that they are great at or they are unique at. And here are some unique things to know about Vault. </p><p>First off, it's content and data. So what does that mean? Vault is good at handling content like a video. Play a video, stop a video, highlight a certain section of the video, comment on the video. It's good at things like office documents, upload an Office document, render it into an archived PDF, mark it up, diff versions of it. It's good at images. I upload a very complex image, it pulls out the metadata of that image, when was it created, what's its DPI, et cetera. <strong>It's good at all that type of content, but it's also good at data, the classic data that you need to track in business applications. What's interesting about that, it's the first platform that's -- that I know of that's ever set out to be great at both.</strong> And usually, you'll have something like a Documentum or something like that that's focused on content. You'll have an SAP that's focused on data. We have people that have background from both sides, and that's the people that we used to create Vault, so it can do both.</p><p>I would say the process management is a key area. It -- sometimes people call this workflow. I really call it process management. <strong>Vault has very complex tools in there to allow you to model a very complex process of workflow</strong>, which, for example, you would need to go through when you're getting documents ready to submit a clinical trial or when a pharmaceutical company is trying to approve, for example, a video that they will put on TV. When they do that, there's a lot of steps and a lot of fines if you don't get it right. Is it legally correct? Is it medically correct? Is the compliance with the regulations correct? And who signed off on all this stuff? There's a series of steps. You got to do that accurately and fast. That's process management. And Vault has that built right into it. </p><p><strong>Search everything. The fundamental data store, for those of you more on the technical side, is not really a relational database. It's a text search engine. More -- it's more like Google than it is like Oracle.</strong> So everything underneath Vault is searchable and superfast. That's why we get the performance and the flexibility that we need. It's also, what I call, a multi-Vault architecture.</p><p>When we -- if you would look at the original document that we wrote when we were starting out Vault, it says, "Hey, a large pharmaceutical company should have 15 to 20 Vault applications that Veeva delivers and 15 to 20 that they make on their own. And these are going to come in at different times and be of different maturity." So we have this multi-Vault architecture. So if the regulatory group in pharma gets started first, and they're in, they're live, they're very stable, they're not going to be disrupted by the clinical side coming in, in another Vault. But we have integration between them. In this way, we're quite different from SAP, which has everything in one big mass, and that makes it difficult to coordinate. <strong>We have a sort of a federated model to our applications, which we call the multi-Vault architecture.</strong> </p><p>The security model, and this is somewhat where the real secret sauce is, is probably the most complete that I've seen an application platform, and I've seen a lot of them. <strong>We have security right down to the field level on a record. We call it atomic security. And this is really needed in life sciences. </strong>We're doing some things that really need a lot of level of security. For example, when you're doing clinical trials and you have a double-blind clinical trial and you need to unblind something. You really can't get that wrong, and you have to do it in an administrative way, not in a coding way. </p><p>And then I'll point out what I call real Java. We need to run to the complexity for applications at Veeva because we're doing industry-specific things, and the very last mile really matters. Good enough is not good enough when every application needs to be the leader. So our developers can code when they need to, the business logic in real Java, not some scripting language. And also, we will be exposing that to our customers, too. </p><p>So this is a very powerful platform when it needs to be.&#8221; <em>&#8212; 2017 Investor Day</em></p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!8q2k!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1b250dd1-c427-4050-90e1-e7067d404f82_553x339.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!8q2k!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1b250dd1-c427-4050-90e1-e7067d404f82_553x339.png 424w, 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y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-39" href="#footnote-anchor-39" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">39</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;Veeva CRM suggestions, partnering with ZS Associates and Oktana to have suggestive actions for the pharmaceutical rep on what to do next across what channels, across what customer, to notice that, oh, a certain patient had a certain medical procedure in Indianapolis, and your prescription sometimes can follow that medical procedure. You should call this doctor tomorrow and &#8212; or you should email that doctor this clinical report. This is revenue-generating stuff for our customers, and we are innovating on that.&#8221; <em>&#8212; 2015 Investor Day</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-40" href="#footnote-anchor-40" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">40</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;We're also working on innovation in the safety area and a particular area of innovation is a new product that we're working on called Safety AI. So what does Safety AI do? <strong>It uses natural language processing and machine learning to take all of the inbound information that you might get about a safety issue. It could be in a text, in an e-mail, in what's called an E2B case form XML, and it can analyze all that information and consolidate it into cases that are ready for review by a person.</strong></p><p>And in talking with some of our early customers, <strong>they may have for example 500 people in an offshore location that are responsible for basically combing through this information to create the cases for review. They felt that with this kind of technology, they could drop that number of people from 500 to 200.</strong> So it will be a really powerful tool in the Safety arsenal to really expedite case intake, make it more timely, make it much less costly and, as you can imagine, make it much less error-prone as well, by taking at least some of the human intervention out of the equation.&#8221; <em>&#8212; 2019 Investor Day</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-41" href="#footnote-anchor-41" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">41</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>Brent Bracelin</p><p>&#8220;I would love to get your initial thoughts on how Veeva is thinking about incorporating AI and large language models into the business, is there an opportunity to lean in here to either lower cost internally around AI? Or are you thinking about new revenue streams via new products that you could build on kind of these AI advances in large language models?&#8221;</p><p>Peter Gassner</p><p>&#8220;Good question about AI. Well, certainly, ChatGPT's kind of taken the world's imagination by storm, and it is a significant type of technology. I won't go too long into that, but it's significant. But to answer your questions, Brent, I don't see any opportunity to really lower internal costs, most of what we do is relationship based in the selling and the marketing, and innovation based, true innovation base and construction in the product area. So I don't see anything there.</p><p>As far as for value for our customers, that's something we'll consider over time. We won't rush into it. We have a lot of data in Veeva in the industry cloud overall for the industry. And then we have data &#8212; we have our customers' data for each customer. So there's potential that we can do some things to answer some questions about the industry overall, or and/or help the customer answer some questions about their internal operations.</p><p>And I do think the large language models are going to be [indiscernible] in the chat type interface. Ask about a question, get a relatively low quality answer that you can kind of move forward from for there. <strong>So I think there's a place for it. I don't think it's a revolution, and we'll just see how it goes</strong>.&#8221; <em>&#8212; Q4&#8217;FY23 earnings</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-42" href="#footnote-anchor-42" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">42</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;We are seeing good uptake of the Direct Data API. And yes, as you mentioned, we recently announced that that's going to be free to all of our customers. And the reason there is we want everybody building on that type of API.</p><p>It's just a much better, faster API for many use cases. And we found a way to do it where it was not going to consume as many compute resources as we thought it was. So we're pretty excited about that. We're using it internally, for example, for connecting different parts of our clinical suite, different parts of our safety suite together, and our partners are starting to do it. We have more than 10 customers that are already doing it. Some of them are large customers.</p><p>It takes some time because it's a different paradigm for integration. People have been using a hammer for a long time, and now you're giving them a jackhammer and they&#8217;ve got to learn how to use it. But we are super enthused. <strong>It's a fundamental new type of API where you can get like all of the data out of your Vault super quickly in one S3 file every night and transactionally sound deltas every 15 minutes in one file. Nobody has that type of thing.</strong></p><p>And AI is just pumping up the demand for data everywhere, AI and data science. And overall, that's just the trend. As these compute powers get more and more accessible, people want that data in more and more places all the time.</p><p>So I'm really enthused about what we're doing for the life sciences industry because many of their core systems are Veeva and now their core systems are going to be enabled with this fundamental new API <strong>that's going to allow them to leverage their core data faster than any other industry.</strong> So hopefully, we're doing our part to help the life sciences industry grow, and that will be good for Veeva.&#8221; <em>&#8212; Q4&#8217;FY25 earnings</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-43" href="#footnote-anchor-43" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">43</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;And then Pulse data&#8230;we'll be introducing that product later on this year. That's where <strong>we'll make a data set based on the activity in our applications.</strong></p><p>So if you look at our CRM application, for example, we do know what's going on in the industry. Our pharmaceutical &#8212; how are pharmaceutical companies reaching urologists in the Midwest? Well, we know that. We know that because that's recorded in our system. Now, the trick is to produce that data, produce that set of data in a privacy-safe way globally around the world and use that to enable pharmaceutical companies, for example, to do better segmentation and targeting or engagement planning by knowing what the industry is doing.</p><p>And at the same time, <strong>we will apply that to clinical.</strong> If there was a &#8212; if &#8212; you can project into the future, a lot of people using the Veeva clinical applications, <strong>we might be able to produce a data set that provides visibility into the clinical trial ecosystem.</strong></p><p>How many people are on clinical trials? <strong>For a clinical trial in this specific disease area, what is the dropout rate? Is Canada trending up and Brazil trending down or not? What's going on? There's &#8212; I hope you realize, there's no visibility into that.</strong></p><p>There's visibility into prices for stocks that's collected, and you all look at that and you can analyze that. There's not that visibility into what's going on with clinical trials, which are actually experiments on humans and very expensive ones. That's the type of innovation Veeva can bring with the Pulse data.&#8221; <em>&#8212; Jan-24 JPM conference</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-44" href="#footnote-anchor-44" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">44</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;Like I remember, at our customer summit in June, we had one of our large customers presenting their case study and their success with Approved Email. You can't sit in that room as somebody who works at a pharma company and think, oh that big company, my competitor is sending e-mail after they do a call, and that's extending the call, and think, we probably don't have to do that.</p><p>That is not what people thought. What people did after that event is they called us and said, we got to do a pilot. Can you help us figure out how to do this? Multichannel is a huge driver, and if you can't be the only pharma company that doesn't do it, and <strong>some people call pharma companies dominoes. They're -- No one wants to be first, but they're fast followers.</strong></p><p>There's a lot of innovation in this industry. We have plenty of companies who want to be first, but they are fast followers too, and this move to multichannel has absolutely passed the tipping point and this is just how you have to do it in this industry, going forward. And we're the platform that's really enabling it.&#8221; <em>&#8212; 2015 Investor Day</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-45" href="#footnote-anchor-45" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">45</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;Over the years, our subscription gross margin has steadily increased through 2 primary factors: revenue mix and product mix. First, our subscription revenue has historically grown faster than services revenue, which acts as a tailwind to overall gross margin.</p><p>Second, on average, <strong>Vault products have a materially higher subscription gross margin relative to CRM</strong> and some of our other commercial products.&#8221; <em>&#8212; 2020 Investor Day</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-46" href="#footnote-anchor-46" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">46</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;I always had this Mantra that look <strong>if our people are not worth the customer paying for them then they're not actually worth anything</strong>&#8230;So that was a rule. <strong>You don't give away professional services</strong>. What about if the deal is going to tank? Well then I guess the deal's going to tank, because the one thing we're not going to do is give away professional services&#8230;You have to look at yourself if your services are not profitable - gosh why can&#8217;t I make services valuable enough? Why do our services cost less than the cost of our people? What am I doing wrong?&#8221; &#8212; Aug-17 SaaStr conference</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-47" href="#footnote-anchor-47" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">47</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;The effectiveness of the Vault platform allows for material innovation and new product introductions while still only spending in the mid-teens in R&amp;D.&#8221; <em>&#8212; 2020 Investor Day</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-48" href="#footnote-anchor-48" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">48</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;Yes, I would just say as we scale, I think we're getting a little more efficient in our processes, in our customer relationships, in our use of our Vault platform, and we're being diligent. That was a concept we call lean teams. Not doing layoffs, but we want lean teams. We want the smallest teams possible with high-performance people that can perform well together.</p><p><strong>So this kind of discipline &#8212; that's why our margins are increasing. And I think you'll see that from us increasing margins over time</strong>.&#8221; &#8212; <em>Q4&#8217;FY24 earnings</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-49" href="#footnote-anchor-49" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">49</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;We've always thought about growth and profit together. I think it's something that distinguished Veeva in the early days, and it went out of fashion in the market for a little while there, and maybe it's coming back in fashion right now. I don't really know. But we think about those together and kind of inseparable from each other.</p><p><strong>I think sometimes you see companies throw money at an opportunity or throw money at a problem thinking, that's going to accelerate it. That's going to get me there. And I think what we find is that lean teams go faster. And so we always think about taking a disciplined approach to our spending.</strong></p><p>And so you're seeing that in some of our margin results right now. Our Q3 margins were at 43.5% non-GAAP, and that's well above the floor of 35% that you mentioned. And we're going to continue to keep that disciplined approach.&#8221; <em>&#8212; Dec-24 Raymond James conference</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-50" href="#footnote-anchor-50" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">50</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>Brent Bracelin</p><p>&#8220;The full year margin guide here, highest we've ever seen, that comes at a time where you're investing in R&amp;D. You have kind of the whole investment focus around a Vault CRM, additional products here. What's driving the guide here above 42% op margin?&#8221;</p><p>Brian Van Wagener</p><p>&#8220;Yes, great question. So the main way that we think about margin is investing the right amount in the business. So we've always thought about growth and profitability and don't really view those in conflict with each other. <strong>So what you're seeing is that we're always trying to get more efficient, and it's because that efficiency allows us to execute better and faster. We find that lean teams are more agile. They've got better speed.</strong> </p><p>And so we think there's going to continue to be efficiency and economies of scale. But what we're optimizing for and what you're seeing reflected in the guide is that we're optimizing for speed and execution, not margin. So we're continuing to invest in the business for growth. We're spending about twice on product, what we do on sales and marketing and keeping that focus on product excellence and innovation in our products.&#8221; <em>&#8212; Q4&#8217;FY25 earnings</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-51" href="#footnote-anchor-51" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">51</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;So there was an earlier question, how do we decide what to build? And another component of that is <strong>we only want to build things where we can get at least half of the market share.</strong> In analytics, things like Click and Tableau and Cognos, BusinessObjects, MicroStrategy, all those things. Every one of those companies will tell you that healthcare life science is one of their biggest verticals. Our customers tend to buy them all.</p><p>There is no standard in analytics, and if there became a standard, someone would want something different because they view the analysis of data as something that you can't standardize. <strong>And so when we look at analytics, it's a huge opportunity. There's a lot of money spent by life sciences companies on advanced analytics tools, but we don't see a path to building something that can get a 50% market share or more. And therefore, we'll let the Tableaus and Clicks of the world fight it out.</strong> What we do is we just try to make it easy for our customers to utilize the tool of their choice, which is normally more than one tool.&#8221; <em>&#8212; 2014 Investor Day</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-52" href="#footnote-anchor-52" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">52</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;We live by core values. We have four core values. They used to change quarter by quarter when we first started the company. The first one is &#8216;do the right thing.&#8217; We didn&#8217;t write that down for a long time. But we got to, like, 3-4 thousand employees and we thought, you know what &#8212; maybe everyone doesn&#8217;t just feel this, let&#8217;s write down &#8216;do the right thing.&#8217; The next one is customer success. Now, when we started the company we had no customers, so customer success wasn&#8217;t one of them. The first one when we started the company was &#8216;speed.&#8217; But now they&#8217;re: &#8216;do the right thing,&#8217; &#8216;customer success', &#8216;employee success,&#8217; and &#8216;speed.&#8217; </p><p>And it&#8217;s been a long time since we changed them, but we review before every big meeting. We review it on the company call every quarter. We review it before every Board meeting. We don&#8217;t just list them out the way I just did. We talk about them &#8212; and why they&#8217;re still important. And when you communicate clearly for many years and you &#8216;walk the walk,&#8217; then people believe it.</p><p> And it&#8217;s not &#8216;cool&#8217; to do something that&#8217;s bad for customers at Veeva. It&#8217;s not &#8216;cool&#8217; to do something that hurts another employee. It&#8217;s not &#8216;cool&#8217; to drag your feet, and to wait until the last minute or to slow the team down. That&#8217;s just not how we do it. And so the culture of the place is &#8216;let&#8217;s get it done.&#8217; And &#8216;put the customer first.&#8217;</p><p>And we&#8217;re all busy. No one finishes everything they want to do every day or every week or every quarter. The core values are also up there to say, &#8216;alright well I&#8217;ve got ten things to do, I&#8217;ve only got time for one &#8212; which is the best for customers, and go there. So it was high-level culture, high-level feeling about the company. But also low-level, I&#8217;ve got to make a decision about what I need to do in the next hour. And you can use that as the guide.&#8221; &#8212; Matt Wallach, Strategy at Scale podcast, 4/8/25</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-53" href="#footnote-anchor-53" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">53</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;We have one of our operating principles that says autonomy over alignment, <strong>which means we really get paid for innovation, creativity that requires autonomy and sometimes alignment or efficiency is going to suffer because of that.</strong> So we're conscious of that. We make that trade-off. We go for autonomy first. And then if we can see a way we can align stuff between our different groups, okay, we do it.</p><p>So for example, we don't have a centralized engineering team or a centralized product management team. We have different groups. And inside of Veeva, there are some groups that are start-ups that run completely autonomous. And that's part of &#8212; creates our energy. And we want to innovate not only in our technology but in our operating model.&#8221; &#8212; <em>Jan-23 JPM Conference</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-54" href="#footnote-anchor-54" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">54</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;Autonomy is critical when you get to 10,000 people. <strong>You have to have autonomous groups. The people we want to attract, they operate better in autonomy. They get a thrill out of they've got the ball. If they drop the ball, it's going right to the floor.</strong></p><p>Those are the people we want in the company, that creates innovation so we have to have autonomy, especially for our start-up new business areas that creates the energy and innovation. And we constantly say, <strong>&#8216;We&#8217;re okay with some inefficiency.&#8217; That's not &#8212; our goal is not an efficiency goal.</strong> <strong>Our goal is the innovation and customer success goal, so you can't have it both ways.&#8221; </strong><em><strong>&#8212; </strong>2019 Investor Day</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-55" href="#footnote-anchor-55" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">55</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;Speed, that's our third value. Get it done today instead of tomorrow.</p><p>Get the thing done. I tell people &#8212; and I probably say this 50x a year for sure. It takes 120% effort to win, but it still takes 80% effort to lose. So what we want to do is put in that extra effort and win. Now Veeva has that intensity, and we say in the interview process, it's not the right place for everybody, right?</p><p>It has that intensity. We want to get after it every day, every week, every month, every quarter, build something that's significant and deliver value.&#8221; &#8212; 2014 Investor Day</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-56" href="#footnote-anchor-56" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">56</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;This is a little deeper in our operating model than you might want to know, but for each business area, there's twice yearly, very in-depth strategy reviews, where we're looking out 3 or 4 years, and I participate then. There's a set of peers participate in them. And that's where we're really stressing ourselves by area. Are we doing the best we can? Are we getting lazy? Are we getting arrogant? What can we do now to &#8212; So yes, this is &#8212; I always tell people, David, it's the downside of capitalism. <strong>There is no free lunch. There is no resting, right? </strong>It's somewhat depressing.</p><p><strong>It's an endless game. But if you lose that fire, you'll get &#8212; it won't happen. Now also when you're the leader, if you lose that fire, you're not going to be liked and that starts the ball rolling, too. So I want to set a high bar for Veeva and part of that is giving these people the autonomy. We have a virtual CEO of clinical operations and clinical data management &#8212; and they know they own that ball. And it's my job to replace them if they don't have the fire, right? That's my job. So I don't want to let our customers down.</strong> What if most of the customers are using this clinical software from Veeva, and we start dropping the ball? It's going to slow down the whole industry.</p><p>But what if we use our position to gain more market share, to innovate more and then who knows because there's more standardization, we can make some kind of breakthrough that enables a process that really changes the way clinical trials work, wouldn't that be a good thing to do. So I think there's opportunity that can be created on top of a more standardized clinically universe. I've talked to clinical leaders all that time, David, that they don't think the clinical trial process as it is now is really optimized as much as it could be. So I think we're excited. To really answer your question, we're excited about the clinical.</p><p><strong>And if there's anybody here working in clinical that's not excited, I need to move them out, really. I mean it's just &#8212; I'm sorry to be that blunt, but that's the job.&#8221; &#8212; </strong>2024 Investor Day</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-57" href="#footnote-anchor-57" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">57</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;We say execution matters most. All that other stuff is hoo-ha. I spend 90% of my time executing. What am I going to do today, this week, this month, this year? Write down a plan, execute to a plan. Measure yourself to a plan. <strong>Execution matters most because over the long term, any good idea gets copied. But execution is enduring&#8230;and it's hard and it's maybe not sexy but it's the thing that will separate you.</strong> There&#8217;s a downside of capitalism &#8212; there's no free lunch. If you want to be great, you have to execute.&#8221; <em>&#8212; Aug-17 SaaStr conference</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-58" href="#footnote-anchor-58" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">58</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;Actually, we bought this company called Veracity Logic about a year ago, a small company but a pretty mature product. <strong>We've roughly tripled the team and roughly tripled the revenue in less than a year.</strong> And that just shows that &#8212; if you show up to your customer with a partnership approach and more products and more products that fit together, you're better off.&#8221; <em>&#8212; 2022 Investor Day</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-59" href="#footnote-anchor-59" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">59</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;We want to then build the best cloud products, and that sounds relatively easy because product &#8212; I've been in an enterprise software my whole life. <strong>Product is actually the most predictable part of a software company by far because the best product people working for a significant amount of time will produce the best product.</strong> Sales, marketing, your competitors, is all are relatively unpredictable. <strong>But product is predictable. You just have to assemble the A team.</strong></p><p>Now that's where the hard is, how can you assemble the A team. Everybody wants to do that. So you have to work hard at it. You have to know what you're doing. You have to have a company culture and the processes where people can feel good and be productive. You have to &#8212; if you want the best artists, you have to have the best artist colony. And that's what we're doing. <strong>We work hard on assembling the A team</strong>.&#8221; <em>&#8212; 2016 Investor Day</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-60" href="#footnote-anchor-60" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">60</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;So what we've historically talked about is sort of our core revenue, which is around RAVE EDC. And in comparison to the broader platform, our other solutions, including our analytics, and you can think of it as a -- about a 2/3, 1/3 breakdown <strong>with 2/3 still coming from core EDC</strong> and an about 1/3, from the rest of our solutions. So obviously, the rest of our solutions are growing faster. And over time, we'll see that split become 50-50 and then more.&#8221; <em>&#8212; Jun-19 Dassault/Medidata M&amp;A call</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-61" href="#footnote-anchor-61" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">61</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;So when we began Medidata, we focused on one very specific area, which was electronic data capture. And over the 20-year history of the business, we have, I think, done a very good job of taking market share. <strong>And today, we run probably more than half of all electronic trials that are on globally.</strong>&#8221; <em>&#8212; Jun-19 Dassault/Medidata M&amp;A call</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-62" href="#footnote-anchor-62" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">62</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;The discussion of a public benefit corporation started probably more than 10 years ago. And the reason it came up was because in Delaware C-corps, the job of the Board of Directors is to maximize shareholder value. That&#8217;s the job of the Board. Keep people out of jail, make sure the executives are honest, but &#8212; it&#8217;s basically maximize shareholder value&#8230;And our Board didn&#8217;t operate that way. We never talked about the stock price at a Board meeting. We just never did. It was not what we were focused on. And it did not feel like the job of our Board was to maximize shareholder value. It&#8217;s not what they did &#8212; it&#8217;s not how we thought. </p><p>The job of the Board was to make sure we were making customers successful, we were doing the right things for the industry, we were creating a great place for people to work. That&#8217;s what we focused on in the Board meetings. And so it just felt unnatural and almost dishonest that if you read the articles of incorporation of the company &#8212; that&#8217;s not the job the board was doing. </p><p>And a public benefit corporation, you could choose your stakeholders. And so it took a few years to get ourselves ready for it, to get the Board ready for it. But ultimately we announced that we were going to do it, and then we went on a listening tour &#8212; we announced that we were thinking about it. We talked to investors, we talked to customers, partners, employees. And what we heard was that no one actually knew what a public benefit corporation was, so we had to explain it to everyone. </p><p>And the way that we positioned it was &#8212; listen, we&#8217;re in this for the long-term. We care most about customers and employees. And if we do the right thing for customers, and we help the industry, and we create a great place for employees &#8212; shareholders will benefit forever. And that we always beleived to be true. But I knew that I was going to retire early. And when we had a discussion with a CEO about buying another Veeva product, and another Veeva product. <strong>Sometimes they&#8217;d say well listen &#8212; we&#8217;re spending so many millions of dollars with you guys &#8212; how do I know that you&#8217;re not going to take advantage of us? And if it was me or Peter we could tell them &#8212; listen, you know us, you trust us, we&#8217;re good people &#8212; we&#8217;re not going anywhere. But that can&#8217;t last forever, and so we wanted to get it codified forever.</strong> To make sure that we would never take advantage of customers. </p><p><strong>So part of why you can go all-in with Veeva is because you can trust that we will never take advantage of you.</strong> Because as a public benefit corporation &#8212; your success, the success of the industry is tied for first with shareholder value. And so we will not do something bad for customers to help shareholders &#8212; ever. And we never did. But we could look a CEO in the eye and say I won&#8217;t take advantage of you because my Board won&#8217;t allow it. And that lasts forever now.&#8221; &#8212; <em>Matt Wallach, Strategy at Scale podcast, Apr-25</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-63" href="#footnote-anchor-63" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">63</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;I always take this analogy. If you see Apple products, I'm a big Apple fan user, so you have a phone and then you have a Watch, you have AirPods, you have MacBook and then all of a sudden if Apple is coming up with the latest AirPods, complete new design, rebranded, do you want to upgrade to the AirPods and their design or do you want to sync AirPods and go to maybe Android pods or something else? It's very similar to that.</p><p>When I'm compared to my use, I have a fully integrated system. I can copy in one place, I can paste in other place. Why would I lose that integration and go to another system and get it upgraded even if it is a little bit better?</p><p>I would do that if the new product is very exceptional with AI capabilities or whatnot and I'm really losing out, then I would take that extra step and say, "Okay, let me try it out even if I'm not integrating the system but this is really fascinating. Let me go try it out."</p><p>It has to make a difference, only then will a partnered customer step out of the integrated hub and go into a brand-new product. <strong>Otherwise, I'm disturbing my beautiful ecosystem here. I have all the integrations built out. I have Veeva CRM to PromoMats integration, MedComms integration and PromoMats is talking to RIM and RIM is talking to eTMF.</strong></p><p><strong>I have all these connections and ecosystem built out. Why would I just disrupt, take out my CRM and give it to another third party where there is no integration with my other systems?</strong> You wouldn't do it unless there is a very big reason, unless the system is too good or it is very cost effective. There should be a big enough reason for you to move away.&#8221; &#8212; <em>Tegus, 2/7/25, VP, Veeva Services Practice Group at Connexus Solutions</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-64" href="#footnote-anchor-64" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">64</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;Here's my personal feeling. Now, it won't match with maybe what you guys will see from the outside. The only way you're going to pull this off is by overpromising a lot of things. The Salesforce guys are promising the sky and the moon, and isn't Veeva so bad and if only you could have AI and data integration, all that?</p><p>Wouldn't that be great? The customer will say, "Yeah, damn it, you're right, I'm going to do it." They're going to sign it and declare it and Veeva stock will take a hit from that because "Oh no, this X customer is leaving us." <strong>I do not underestimate the difficulty of Salesforce to deliver on something like this because it's not just CRM. Omnichannel is a critical piece of this.</strong></p><p><strong>Omnichannel is five other softwares.</strong> <strong>You need CRM and five other omnichannels and a content management system just to do business today in pharma.</strong> <strong>Salesforce has to not develop just a CRM, it's got to develop six softwares to make this thing even parity with Veeva.</strong> If I already mentioned that Salesforce is not good developing on its own software, imagine not bringing five other softwares into the mix as well.</p><p>I'm feeling some people are going to get fired in about two and a half years from now from Salesforce. All those leaders who are overpromising are new to Salesforce too, by the way. Except for Frank Defesche, he was an original person there. All these new people trying to pull off this Manhattan project at Salesforce, overpromising are going to under deliver.</p><p>My personal bet is they're going to abandon the project in four years like IQVIA did, but that's very extreme. If you do want to be very good and say, "Hey, well, they'll just give it away for free or a low price," then I would say maybe there's five of the top 50 I can think of that would probably go for a very low cost version of it where they maintain it themselves and make it work for a very low giveaway price. What usually happens is Mark Benioff is just friends with the CEO and says, "Here you go, I'll just give this to you for that," and they agree to this over cocktails at his villa in Hawaii is usually how it goes&#8230;</p><p>Veeva came in at a very special time when the requirements were very simple. You needed CRM and an offline device like an iPad. Now, we live in a multichannel world. Where doctors in the whole world, 1/4-1/2 of your work is now digital. <strong>It takes a long time to get compliant digital omnichannel working. Just to get that alone is a 10-year journey, in my opinion&#8230;</strong></p><p>I'll just give you a quick example. You have CRM for the storing of the data. You need an offline iPad solution that can work inside the hallways of a hospital. You need compliant email. You need Zoom capabilities that's compliant. You need web portal capabilities. That's what you need just to do the basics of omnichannel today. Those are all examples of five or six softwares that you need.&#8221; <em>&#8212; Tegus, 11/14/24, CRM Strategy at Veeva</em></p></div></div>]]></content:encoded></item><item><title><![CDATA[[$TSU.TO] Trisura Group]]></title><description><![CDATA[A High-Growth Specialty Insurer]]></description><link>https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/p/tsuto-trisura-group</link><guid isPermaLink="false">https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/p/tsuto-trisura-group</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[Ryan Seawell]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2025 16:09:52 GMT</pubDate><enclosure url="https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!pyL3!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbe2592ec-fe43-4566-bc71-f458f630fca9_2006x2475.png" length="0" type="image/jpeg"/><content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Disclaimer: I am wrong often, please do your own work</em></p><p>Trisura is a ~c$1.5bn market cap North American specialty insurance platform. </p><p>The business was founded in 2006 and formerly sat within Brookfield Corp. It spun out in 2017 and has performed impressively since. </p><p>Its valuation became stretched for a period (trading as high as ~6x P/B), but after 4 years of treading water, the stock now sits at 1.9x P/B and just ~11x adj P/E (&lt;10x NTM).  </p><p>Insurers don&#8217;t necessarily bring out the animal spirits. Growth is basically capped at some not-spectacular level like the mid-teens. Blow-ups can happen unexpectedly. I myself looked into Trisura a few times in the past only to give up at various points. </p><p>But there&#8217;s a certain varietal of specialty P&amp;C insurer that produces acceptable ROEs, and does so rather consistently year after year. I believe Trisura fits solidly into this camp.</p><p>Further, Trisura is unique amongst its peers in that it is growing BVPS at a rapid rate, which I expect to continue. In fact, out of the peer set I examine, nobody other than Kinsale (which is actually growing BVPS faster) really comes close. Yet this peer group trades around ~3x P/B (and Kinsale ~7x).</p><p>My hope is that with the continued compounding of BVPS (and a bit of a re-rating as a result), Trisura shares will perform strongly over the next handful of years.</p><h2>Business Overview</h2><p>The platform today is made up of two operating businesses&#8212;Specialty and US Programs.  </p><p>As you can see below, total NPE + Fee Income has grown at a CAGR of 35% since 2016. At the same time, operating ROEs have climbed into the 20s and combined ratios have fallen (into the low-to-mid 80s for the Specialty segment and below 90 overall). </p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!pyL3!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbe2592ec-fe43-4566-bc71-f458f630fca9_2006x2475.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!pyL3!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbe2592ec-fe43-4566-bc71-f458f630fca9_2006x2475.png 424w, 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbe2592ec-fe43-4566-bc71-f458f630fca9_2006x2475.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!pyL3!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbe2592ec-fe43-4566-bc71-f458f630fca9_2006x2475.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p><em>Trisura Specialty</em></p><p>The &#8220;Specialty&#8221; segment is predominantly a traditional primary lines insurer&#8212;mostly based in Canada&#8212;operating across surety (focused on small &amp; medium contractors and public sector projects), corporate insurance (such as D&amp;O &amp; professional liability, with a slant towards nonprofits) and &#8220;risk solutions&#8221; (mostly automotive warranties). </p><p>The Specialty segment has been around since 2006, generating a very impressive average ROE of ~20% since 2014 (and ~28% over the last 4 years) while growing NPE at an 8-yr CAGR of 27%. It&#8217;s a pristine track record.</p><p>It&#8217;s achieved its most recent performance despite a significant investment in growing a US Surety practice (as well as a US Corporate Insurance practice to a lesser degree). Historically, Trisura&#8217;s primary lines have operated within Canada only. According to management, there&#8217;s been enough capital in its new US Surety division to support a surety practice equal in size to its Canadian counterpart for at least a couple years running. However, US premiums were far lower than that prior to 2024 (and are still lower today). Thus, this investment has weighed on ROEs in a material way, even as ROEs have hovered around 30%.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-1" href="#footnote-1" target="_self">1</a></p><p>ROEs across the entire Specialty segment are expected to settle in the mid to low 20s assuming an ~85% normalized combined ratio.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-2" href="#footnote-2" target="_self">2</a></p><p><em>Trisura US Programs</em></p><p>The other major operating business is the &#8220;US Programs&#8221; (or hybrid fronting) segment. This business is a top 5 fronting carrier in the US. </p><p>A fronting carrier is a different beast vs. a traditional insurer.</p><p>Simplistically, a fronting carrier will write insurance originated by a distribution partner (typically an MGA, in Trisura&#8217;s case) and then turn around and cede all of it to a capacity provider (typically a reinsurer, but also traditional insurers, collateralized reinsurance (from ILS funds, pension funds, etc.) and/or an MGA&#8217;s own &#8220;captive&#8221; pool of insurance capital). In the process, the fronting carrier will capture a fee of ~5% of the premium. </p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4cmx!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff85cc4ea-dc83-4000-86a6-7153d97e2ea5_497x277.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4cmx!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff85cc4ea-dc83-4000-86a6-7153d97e2ea5_497x277.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4cmx!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff85cc4ea-dc83-4000-86a6-7153d97e2ea5_497x277.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4cmx!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff85cc4ea-dc83-4000-86a6-7153d97e2ea5_497x277.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4cmx!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff85cc4ea-dc83-4000-86a6-7153d97e2ea5_497x277.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4cmx!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff85cc4ea-dc83-4000-86a6-7153d97e2ea5_497x277.png" width="497" height="277" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/f85cc4ea-dc83-4000-86a6-7153d97e2ea5_497x277.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:277,&quot;width&quot;:497,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:46959,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:null,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4cmx!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff85cc4ea-dc83-4000-86a6-7153d97e2ea5_497x277.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4cmx!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff85cc4ea-dc83-4000-86a6-7153d97e2ea5_497x277.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4cmx!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff85cc4ea-dc83-4000-86a6-7153d97e2ea5_497x277.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!4cmx!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff85cc4ea-dc83-4000-86a6-7153d97e2ea5_497x277.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Growth in the fronting space has been dramatic over the past decade, driven by the growth of MGAs and their need to access &#8220;risk capital.&#8221; According to <a href="https://www.conning.com/about-us/news/ir-pr---mga-2024">Conning</a>, US Fronting carrier premium grew 27% in 2023 and has more than tripled since 2020. </p><p>MGAs are essentially specialty insurers who outsource their balance sheets. Given their attractive financial characteristics (asset-light, healthy 20-30% margin potential, ability to scale rapidly) and given the fragmented nature of the space, MGAs have seen an influx of PE investment. This has helped to catalyze growth in the space. MGAs overall have tended to be smaller, more nimble and more tech-enabled than traditional insurers, and have represented an attractive destination for experienced, entrepreneurial underwriters.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-3" href="#footnote-3" target="_self">3</a> </p><p>At the same time, another shift taking place in the industry has been a slow marginalization of reinsurers by primary insurers. As primary insurers&#8217; balance sheets have grown, they&#8217;ve understandably sought to retain on their balance sheets, as much as possible, their most profitable and least variable lines. As a result, reinsurers have been pushed further and further into &#8220;tail risk&#8221; positions that are more variable and generally less attractive (e.g. property catastrophe exposure). </p><p>Finding themselves increasingly marginalized by primary insurers, some reinsurers have sought to partner with MGAs as a way to move all the way back up the risk stack (as well as access less volatile lines of business).<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-4" href="#footnote-4" target="_self">4</a> However, in order to work directly with an MGA, a fronting carrier will need to act as the conduit (for regulatory, operating complexity and tax purposes).</p><p>Thus, fronting carriers are in an interesting position&#8212;with MGAs growing rapidly and hungry for capital on one side, and with reinsurers increasingly seeking access to MGAs on the other. </p><p>While an MGA could and oftentimes will partner directly with a primary insurer (instead of reinsurance capital, et al. through a front), a fronting relationship is an attractive alternative. Naturally, as an insurer without a balance sheet, a/the chief concern of an MGA is the retention and continuity of that outsourced balance sheet. </p><p>A high-quality fronting carrier (with strong reinsurance relationships) should provide a higher degree of certainty that capacity will be there (and can be accessed to support growth), so long as a program remains attractive. A primary insurer relationship could more readily disappear based on a change of strategic direction, a desire to take a line in-house, etc. Thus, a high-quality fronting relationship, in theory, allows the MGA to retain more control over its destiny and generally leads to a higher franchise value. </p><p>A distinction to make about Trisura&#8217;s fronting practice is that it is not a &#8220;pure&#8221; front&#8212;it is a &#8220;hybrid&#8221; front. What this means is that Trisura retains a portion (typically 5-15%) of a program&#8217;s risk on its own balance sheet. Trisura was one of the first in the industry to operate as a hybrid front. Reinsurers are attracted to the concept of a hybrid front as it better aligns a fronting carrier&#8217;s incentives with those of the reinsurer (i.e. it better incentivizes fronts to underwrite profitable business). Reinsurers have pushed for increasingly higher levels of retention (by both fronts and MGAs) in recent years, taking advantage of a &#8220;hard&#8221; reinsurance market.</p><p>As a first mover in the hybrid fronting space, and benefitting from the dramatic tailwinds at their back, Trisura has grown its Programs business from a standing start in 2017 to ~c$2bn in DWP in 2024 (and about ~10% share of the US fronting market). </p><p>Operating ROE for this segment was 17% in 2024 and is expected to settle in the 15-18% range.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-5" href="#footnote-5" target="_self">5</a><a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-6" href="#footnote-6" target="_self">6</a></p><h2>High ROE Growth Opportunities</h2><p>Simplistically, with Specialty ROEs expected to settle in the mid-to-low 20s and with US Programs ROEs expected to settle in the 15-18% range, on a consolidated basis the business should, in theory, generate around a 18-21% ROE.</p><p>If we look more granularly at some of Trisura&#8217;s specific areas for expansion/investment, this also supports the case for high returns. In fact, digging deeper into these areas, it feels that Trisura really has an array of high-return options to pursue. </p><p>This kind of optionality should add greater resilience to returns. Trisura can pursue the best areas a little harder without necessarily needing to go overboard. It can pick off the low hanging fruit in other areas which are less attractive overall (or that are more mature), but where there is still attractive business to be had. If certain areas aren&#8217;t working as well, they can pivot. Etc. </p><p>Below is an examination of these areas in more depth. </p><p>The TL;DR version is that US Surety (and US Specialty more broadly) as well as Canadian fronting are both high-return and large opportunities for Trisura. They should offer high-ROE growth for many years to come. Other areas, which are either a bit less attractive or more mature, are still 15%+ ROE type options where Trisura can likely still be quite successful, perhaps picking its spots a bit more.</p><ol><li><p>US Surety</p></li><li><p>US Corporate Insurance and US Risk Solutions</p></li><li><p>Canadian fronting</p></li><li><p>Continued growth of Canadian Specialty</p></li><li><p>Greater retention of US Programs </p></li><li><p>Growth/&#8221;High-Grading&#8221; of US Programs </p></li></ol><div><hr></div><ol><li><p><em>US Surety</em></p></li></ol><p>Surety is Trisura&#8217;s oldest and best performing line. In Canada, Trisura is the #4 player with ~12% overall market share.</p><p>Since 2016, the surety segment has averaged a combined ratio of around 80% while GWP has grown from c$44m to c$209m, a 20% CAGR. ROEs have likely averaged north of 25% over this period. </p><p>Clearly this a line you&#8217;d want to grow if you could and, indeed, Trisura is most focused on growing this line today&#8212;just in the US market, where it has little presence.</p><p>Trisura began laying the seeds for US expansion around 2021. And there is reason to believe they can replicate Canada&#8217;s success: (1) the industry loss ratio in the US is actually better than it is in Canada (see top right of slide below) and (2) the US surety industry is about 13x larger than Canada&#8217;s (same chart). Thus, Trisura need only to carve out a small fraction of the US market for its US operation to be meaningful for Trisura&#8217;s overall business. </p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!uhvx!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Feed00d1f-ff41-42f1-b12b-43a63a0bc684_859x460.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!uhvx!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Feed00d1f-ff41-42f1-b12b-43a63a0bc684_859x460.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!uhvx!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Feed00d1f-ff41-42f1-b12b-43a63a0bc684_859x460.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!uhvx!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Feed00d1f-ff41-42f1-b12b-43a63a0bc684_859x460.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!uhvx!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Feed00d1f-ff41-42f1-b12b-43a63a0bc684_859x460.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!uhvx!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Feed00d1f-ff41-42f1-b12b-43a63a0bc684_859x460.png" width="859" height="460" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/eed00d1f-ff41-42f1-b12b-43a63a0bc684_859x460.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:460,&quot;width&quot;:859,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:162264,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:null,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!uhvx!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Feed00d1f-ff41-42f1-b12b-43a63a0bc684_859x460.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!uhvx!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Feed00d1f-ff41-42f1-b12b-43a63a0bc684_859x460.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!uhvx!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Feed00d1f-ff41-42f1-b12b-43a63a0bc684_859x460.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!uhvx!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Feed00d1f-ff41-42f1-b12b-43a63a0bc684_859x460.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>To date, Trisura has had promising results in the US and management expects that the US Surety business will generate a &#8220;mid-to-low 80s&#8221; combined ratio in 2025.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-7" href="#footnote-7" target="_self">7</a> Thus, at full scale, US Surety is expected to be a mid to low 20s ROE business&#8212;equal to the Canadian segment. </p><p>While the US segment remains 1-2 years away from matching the size of the Canadian segment, it is growing quickly (197% growth in &#8216;24 to c$75m of premiums), and has drastically exceeded prior timelines. </p><p>Growth in US Surety should be nicely accretive to overall ROEs, as not only is it high ROE in theory, but the segment has also been significantly overcapitalized. As US Surety fully scales over the next year or two, it will eliminate the drag it has represented to overall ROEs the past couple years. </p><p>As a final point, though the US Surety market is quite competitive (it&#8217;s a <a href="https://mbasurety.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/20243Q-Top-100-Surety.pdf">who&#8217;s who of top P&amp;C names</a>), it certainly seems like a well-timed expansion attempt given the current tailwinds in US Surety. The infrastructure bill is expected to more than double federal spend on infrastructure projects vs. historical levels, and spend is expected to remain elevated for many years to come. The vast majority of infrastructure bill spending has yet to be deployed.</p><ol start="2"><li><p><em>US Corporate Insurance and US Risk Solutions</em></p></li></ol><p>Trisura has already began the process of standing up a US Corporate Insurance segment. This segment won&#8217;t move the needle near-term, but will start to make a more material contribution in 2-3 years. Following Corporate Insurance, Risk Solutions is next in line for US expansion. </p><p>As you can see below, these lines have also performed very well over time.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-8" href="#footnote-8" target="_self">8</a> </p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!VXSu!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4d2782d0-db11-444a-9e32-1b1abd9af323_2190x1390.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!VXSu!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4d2782d0-db11-444a-9e32-1b1abd9af323_2190x1390.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!VXSu!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4d2782d0-db11-444a-9e32-1b1abd9af323_2190x1390.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!VXSu!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4d2782d0-db11-444a-9e32-1b1abd9af323_2190x1390.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!VXSu!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4d2782d0-db11-444a-9e32-1b1abd9af323_2190x1390.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!VXSu!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4d2782d0-db11-444a-9e32-1b1abd9af323_2190x1390.png" width="1456" height="924" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/4d2782d0-db11-444a-9e32-1b1abd9af323_2190x1390.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:924,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:161170,&quot;alt&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;title&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/150642966?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4d2782d0-db11-444a-9e32-1b1abd9af323_2190x1390.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" title="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!VXSu!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4d2782d0-db11-444a-9e32-1b1abd9af323_2190x1390.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!VXSu!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4d2782d0-db11-444a-9e32-1b1abd9af323_2190x1390.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!VXSu!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4d2782d0-db11-444a-9e32-1b1abd9af323_2190x1390.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!VXSu!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4d2782d0-db11-444a-9e32-1b1abd9af323_2190x1390.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Each line has been consistently highly profitable (likely north of 20% ROEs over the past 4 years). And taken together, Corporate Insurance &amp; Risk Solutions have grown NPEs at a 23% CAGR since 2016 (and 28% since 2019).</p><p>In both cases, like in surety, the company will be sticking with lines that they know well, and simply expanding them geographically. The North American surety platform is run out of Canada under the same folks who&#8217;ve made it successful historically. I would expect the same to hold true for Corporate Insurance and Risk Solutions.</p><ol start="3"><li><p><em>Canadian fronting</em></p></li></ol><p>Confusingly, embedded within Trisura&#8217;s Specialty division is actually Trisura&#8217;s Canadian fronting business (not to be confused with its US Programs business). Unlike the US Programs business, it operates more like a &#8220;pure&#8221; front. This segment launched in 2020 and has grown dramatically since. </p><p>Being a Canadian-based company, and as a leading fronting player in the US, Trisura is uniquely positioned to offer fronting solutions in Canada. And the market seems to be far less competitive than it is the US.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-9" href="#footnote-9" target="_self">9</a><a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-10" href="#footnote-10" target="_self">10</a></p><p>As such, this has been a very profitable line for Trisura. While its profitability has never been disclosed explicitly, commentary from management suggests its profitability has been higher than the Specialty segment overall (which has been running in the 30% ROE range).<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-11" href="#footnote-11" target="_self">11</a> </p><p>Thus growing this line should be and is a strong priority, and a large opportunity remains for the segment.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-12" href="#footnote-12" target="_self">12</a> </p><ol start="4"><li><p><em>Continued growth of Canadian Specialty</em></p></li></ol><p>Despite being its most mature segment, growth in Canadian Specialty has continued at a very healthy pace. Meanwhile, ROEs for the segment (while benefitting from the fronting business) have eclipsed 30%. Thus, finding ways to grow this segment remains a very good use of capital. </p><ol start="5"><li><p><em>Greater retention of US Programs </em></p></li></ol><p>On its last few calls, management has indicated that it will be pursuing greater balance sheet retention of certain lines within its US Programs business (from the 5-10% range to the 10-15% range). While this move has likely been precipitated by pressure from reinsurers (rather than management&#8217;s desires), this also seems like an attractive use of capital.</p><p>Trisura has been working closely with its MGA partners for many years, with some relationships dating back 5+ years. What could be a better use of capital than retaining a larger piece of its best performing MGA lines&#8212;lines which Trisura should know intimately? And there seem to be good lines to pick from. Across Trisura&#8217;s entire US Programs portfolio (excluding exited lines), premiums grew by 27% and the book achieved a 81% operating combined ratio in 2024.</p><p>Across a DWP base of c$2bn in the US, a 5% greater level of retention would put an incremental c$100m of capital to work (almost a full year&#8217;s worth of profits). </p><ol start="6"><li><p><em>Growth/&#8221;High-Grading&#8221; of US Programs</em></p></li></ol><p>In its US Programs business, after an initial 5 years of extremely rapid growth, Trisura has been in the process of &#8220;high-grading&#8221; the portfolio for the last couple years. Even if this business doesn&#8217;t grow at all, but rather treads water while increasing its mix of high-quality business, this will have a beneficial impact on ROEs. </p><p>However, as a top 5 player in a space with very strong secular tailwinds, there will be ample opportunities to grow. </p><p>As mentioned above, management expects the segment to settle in the 15-18% ROE range (it did 17% on an &#8220;operating&#8221; ROE basis in &#8216;24). State National, the largest player in the space, likely achieves a 20%+ ROE.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-13" href="#footnote-13" target="_self">13</a></p><p>State National also generates a ~80% operating margin. While the US Programs segment doesn&#8217;t run anywhere close to that and likely never will, it&#8217;s reasonable to expect there should also be some margin expansion as this business further scales.</p><div><hr></div><p>Given all the above, the company&#8217;s current level of ROEs do not feel unsustainable to me. Trisura seems to have a clear line of sight to at least doubling the business in a high ROE fashion. I would be surprised if ROEs aren&#8217;t at least 15% over such a period, and would expect them to more likely hover in the ~17-19% range (absent any major issues). </p><p>Officially, the company has stated goals of &#8220;mid to high teens&#8221; operating ROE and BVPS growth (per below, from its 2023 and 2024 investor days).</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!poYA!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd3860652-a64b-43de-a4ec-f2afbf48ca83_1012x538.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!poYA!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd3860652-a64b-43de-a4ec-f2afbf48ca83_1012x538.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!poYA!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd3860652-a64b-43de-a4ec-f2afbf48ca83_1012x538.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!poYA!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd3860652-a64b-43de-a4ec-f2afbf48ca83_1012x538.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!poYA!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd3860652-a64b-43de-a4ec-f2afbf48ca83_1012x538.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!poYA!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd3860652-a64b-43de-a4ec-f2afbf48ca83_1012x538.png" width="1012" height="538" 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd3860652-a64b-43de-a4ec-f2afbf48ca83_1012x538.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!poYA!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd3860652-a64b-43de-a4ec-f2afbf48ca83_1012x538.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!poYA!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd3860652-a64b-43de-a4ec-f2afbf48ca83_1012x538.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!poYA!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd3860652-a64b-43de-a4ec-f2afbf48ca83_1012x538.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>I believe these stated goals are slightly (and appropriately) sandbagged.</p><h2>Other Investment Merits</h2><p><em>Profitability Should be Relatively Consistent </em></p><p>Yes there will be some off-years. But for the most part, I would expect relatively consistent performance. </p><p>Reason #1 is that, as you can see below, ~2/3rds of NOI is actually generated by either &#8220;fee income&#8221; on its fronting businesses or investment income, neither of which are subject to underwriting uncertainty.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-14" href="#footnote-14" target="_self">14</a></p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!uUdA!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbc1a520b-787d-48f1-9f1c-ecfe37df566b_843x618.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!uUdA!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbc1a520b-787d-48f1-9f1c-ecfe37df566b_843x618.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!uUdA!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbc1a520b-787d-48f1-9f1c-ecfe37df566b_843x618.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!uUdA!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbc1a520b-787d-48f1-9f1c-ecfe37df566b_843x618.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!uUdA!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbc1a520b-787d-48f1-9f1c-ecfe37df566b_843x618.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!uUdA!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbc1a520b-787d-48f1-9f1c-ecfe37df566b_843x618.png" width="843" height="618" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/bc1a520b-787d-48f1-9f1c-ecfe37df566b_843x618.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:618,&quot;width&quot;:843,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:181090,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:null,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!uUdA!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbc1a520b-787d-48f1-9f1c-ecfe37df566b_843x618.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!uUdA!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbc1a520b-787d-48f1-9f1c-ecfe37df566b_843x618.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!uUdA!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbc1a520b-787d-48f1-9f1c-ecfe37df566b_843x618.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!uUdA!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbc1a520b-787d-48f1-9f1c-ecfe37df566b_843x618.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Reason #2 is that the company actively avoids volatile lines such as property cat &amp; &#8220;long-tail&#8221; risks.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-15" href="#footnote-15" target="_self">15</a><a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-16" href="#footnote-16" target="_self">16</a> </p><p>Reason #3 is that the underwriting portion of NOI is relatively diversified, and combined ratios tend to be sticky over time (see risk factors discussion). </p><p>Additionally, the fee-income generating MGA customers also tend to be very sticky over time. At Trisura&#8217;s 2023 investor day, management claimed to have never lost a program to a competitor.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-17" href="#footnote-17" target="_self">17</a><a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-18" href="#footnote-18" target="_self">18</a> Trisura also benefits from a relatively high program count, which means lower premiums per program. Thus if a program does churn, it will have on average a lesser impact on the business. Groups like SNC and Clear Blue have a stronger bent towards very large programs.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-19" href="#footnote-19" target="_self">19</a></p><p><em>Reasonably Strong Differentiation</em> </p><p><strong>Specialty</strong></p><p>Within Specialty, Trisura differentiates through (1) deep expertise in niche spaces, (2) broker/client relationships built up over many years, and (3) a broker-focused, service-oriented culture where employees on the front lines are empowered to act quickly/autonomously.</p><p>I believe in an area like surety, brokers/clients tend to be very loyal. As long as a contractor is getting its bonding needs met and there are no issues, a contractor and its broker will stick with the same insurer for years and years. This quote from a Nov-21 Tegus call with a former Trisura surety exec seems to sum it up well:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;Contractors are generally very loyal. Like if they're getting all the bonds that they need, they're going to continue working with that broker for many years. So the business is pretty sticky that way. If a contractor has been getting surety bonds from one broker and from Trisura, they're not likely to move unless there's a problem. So it's relatively easy to set up, but it's like switching banks.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>Further, my understanding is that most brokers will have a pretty concentrated group of underwriters with whom they regularly work. If a broker comes across a more borderline type of risk, it might expand beyond its core group of 2-3, but for the most part, a broker will tend to stick with its tried &amp; true relationships. </p><p>While not the strongest of moats you will see, the track record in this segment does lend credence to the existence of some level of real differentiation. </p><p><strong>Programs</strong></p><p>Within the Programs segment, Trisura has effectively two clients&#8212;the MGA and the reinsurer.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-20" href="#footnote-20" target="_self">20</a></p><p>Trisura differentiates with MGAs through:</p><ol><li><p>Most importantly, the quality of its reinsurers and the certainty with which it can guarantee risk capacity</p></li><li><p>Service-orientation</p></li><li><p>Underwriting capabilities and sophistication in interaction </p></li><li><p>Being fully licensed in all 50 states + Canada (across both E&amp;S and admitted lines), AM Best size 10 (FSC X) rating (allows Trisura to underwrite larger programs; there are only a few fronts at this scale)</p></li></ol><p>Trisura differentiates with reinsurers through:</p><ol><li><p>Most importantly, a strong book of MGA programs</p></li><li><p>Service-orientation</p></li><li><p>Underwriting capabilities and a willingness to align interests through program retention</p></li><li><p>Data/tech capabilities<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-21" href="#footnote-21" target="_self">21</a></p></li></ol><p>There is a bit of a flywheel dynamic at play, where the stronger your set of MGA programs, the better your reinsurance partners. And the better your reinsurance partners, the more likely you are to attract the strongest MGA programs.</p><p>On the reinsurance side, Trisura is off to a good start in that its ongoing programs seem quite strong, and it is a relatively scaled fronting organization that can command more attention from reinsurers. Looking at Trisura&#8217;s group of reinsurers (see <a href="https://www.ajg.com/gallagherre/-/media/files/gallagher/gallagherre/2024/north-america-mga-market-fronting-carrier-counterparties-2023.pdf">Gallagher</a> report, page 21), it is indeed a high quality group (and superior to many of the other fronts profiled).<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-22" href="#footnote-22" target="_self">22</a></p><p>Additionally, both MGAs and reinsurers seem to prefer a fronting partner with substantial scale and that is part of a broader, diversified organization. Trisura claims there are only ~3 such parties in the US, and that deal flow has been somewhat coalescing around this group. </p><p>Management claims that the vast majority of fronting carriers haven&#8217;t achieved the scale and sophistication to distinguish themselves in the market, and as a result, resort to beating each other up on price. Trisura (along with SNC and Clear Blue) have never waivered on their ~5% fee.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-23" href="#footnote-23" target="_self">23</a><a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-24" href="#footnote-24" target="_self">24</a></p><p></p><h2>Valuation</h2><p><em>Multiples</em></p><p>Trisura trades for 1.9x P/B and ~11x trailing adj P/E. </p><p>Assuming 18% growth in BVPS / NOI for &#8216;25, it trades for just 1.6x forward P/B and &lt;10x forward P/E.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!gQKz!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcaa74730-5180-4ef8-a634-483052ff504f_2488x1013.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!gQKz!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcaa74730-5180-4ef8-a634-483052ff504f_2488x1013.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!gQKz!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcaa74730-5180-4ef8-a634-483052ff504f_2488x1013.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!gQKz!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcaa74730-5180-4ef8-a634-483052ff504f_2488x1013.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!gQKz!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcaa74730-5180-4ef8-a634-483052ff504f_2488x1013.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!gQKz!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcaa74730-5180-4ef8-a634-483052ff504f_2488x1013.png" width="1456" height="593" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/caa74730-5180-4ef8-a634-483052ff504f_2488x1013.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:593,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:135861,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/150642966?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcaa74730-5180-4ef8-a634-483052ff504f_2488x1013.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!gQKz!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcaa74730-5180-4ef8-a634-483052ff504f_2488x1013.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!gQKz!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcaa74730-5180-4ef8-a634-483052ff504f_2488x1013.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!gQKz!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcaa74730-5180-4ef8-a634-483052ff504f_2488x1013.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!gQKz!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcaa74730-5180-4ef8-a634-483052ff504f_2488x1013.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p><em>Comparables &amp; Benchmarking Analysis</em></p><p>Below is a comparison of Trisura vs. a set of specialty P&amp;C peers.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Gh8Z!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F40ba8b5d-1df6-42a9-bde5-f3f97843c8d2_4000x1572.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Gh8Z!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F40ba8b5d-1df6-42a9-bde5-f3f97843c8d2_4000x1572.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Gh8Z!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F40ba8b5d-1df6-42a9-bde5-f3f97843c8d2_4000x1572.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Gh8Z!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F40ba8b5d-1df6-42a9-bde5-f3f97843c8d2_4000x1572.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Gh8Z!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F40ba8b5d-1df6-42a9-bde5-f3f97843c8d2_4000x1572.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Gh8Z!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F40ba8b5d-1df6-42a9-bde5-f3f97843c8d2_4000x1572.png" width="1456" height="572" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/40ba8b5d-1df6-42a9-bde5-f3f97843c8d2_4000x1572.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:572,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:991997,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/150642966?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F40ba8b5d-1df6-42a9-bde5-f3f97843c8d2_4000x1572.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Gh8Z!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F40ba8b5d-1df6-42a9-bde5-f3f97843c8d2_4000x1572.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Gh8Z!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F40ba8b5d-1df6-42a9-bde5-f3f97843c8d2_4000x1572.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Gh8Z!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F40ba8b5d-1df6-42a9-bde5-f3f97843c8d2_4000x1572.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Gh8Z!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F40ba8b5d-1df6-42a9-bde5-f3f97843c8d2_4000x1572.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>This group has generated a 10-yr avg ROE of 15%, a 10-yr avg combined ratio of 90% and a 5-year avg BVPS CAGR of 9%. </p><p>Trisura outperforms the group in essentially all categories. Trisura has generated a 10-yr avg ROE of 21%, a 10-yr average combined ratio of 84% and a 5-year BVPS CAGR of 25%.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-25" href="#footnote-25" target="_self">25</a><a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-26" href="#footnote-26" target="_self">26</a></p><p>Despite its outperformance, Trisura trades at 1.9x tangible book vs. the group median of 2.9x. Here&#8217;s a plot of P/B (tangible ex AOCI) vs. 10-year ROEs. </p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OyYa!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff687a9e7-e7bd-4cf4-8a82-9e7f4c123751_1650x991.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OyYa!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff687a9e7-e7bd-4cf4-8a82-9e7f4c123751_1650x991.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OyYa!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff687a9e7-e7bd-4cf4-8a82-9e7f4c123751_1650x991.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OyYa!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff687a9e7-e7bd-4cf4-8a82-9e7f4c123751_1650x991.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OyYa!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff687a9e7-e7bd-4cf4-8a82-9e7f4c123751_1650x991.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OyYa!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff687a9e7-e7bd-4cf4-8a82-9e7f4c123751_1650x991.png" width="1456" height="874" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/f687a9e7-e7bd-4cf4-8a82-9e7f4c123751_1650x991.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:874,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:63776,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/150642966?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff687a9e7-e7bd-4cf4-8a82-9e7f4c123751_1650x991.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OyYa!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff687a9e7-e7bd-4cf4-8a82-9e7f4c123751_1650x991.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OyYa!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff687a9e7-e7bd-4cf4-8a82-9e7f4c123751_1650x991.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OyYa!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff687a9e7-e7bd-4cf4-8a82-9e7f4c123751_1650x991.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!OyYa!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff687a9e7-e7bd-4cf4-8a82-9e7f4c123751_1650x991.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>As they say, one of these things is not like the others. I&#8217;m not saying Trisura is worth RLI/KNSL/PGR type multiples. But if Trisura traded for 3x P/B, I think you could still make a good case it was undervalued. It trades as if the market believes current ROEs are not sustainable, which I believe they mostly are.</p><p>Below is an analysis from <a href="https://www.bcg.com/publications/2021/insurance-value-creators-report">BCG</a> showing the ROE vs. book value growth of the 100 largest stock-listed insurers globally for 2016-2020. I added Trisura&#8217;s approximate figures to show just how much of an outlier it has been&#8212;it would&#8217;ve outperformed about 95 of the 100. Note that many of these names are reinsurers or life/health insurers (i.e. not pure P&amp;C comps), but it&#8217;s very impressive nonetheless.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ikb4!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6ae6a01d-0fe5-4d00-a4a5-0f2d9e84425a_2570x1729.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ikb4!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6ae6a01d-0fe5-4d00-a4a5-0f2d9e84425a_2570x1729.png 424w, 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6ae6a01d-0fe5-4d00-a4a5-0f2d9e84425a_2570x1729.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ikb4!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6ae6a01d-0fe5-4d00-a4a5-0f2d9e84425a_2570x1729.png" width="1456" height="980" 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6ae6a01d-0fe5-4d00-a4a5-0f2d9e84425a_2570x1729.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ikb4!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6ae6a01d-0fe5-4d00-a4a5-0f2d9e84425a_2570x1729.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ikb4!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6ae6a01d-0fe5-4d00-a4a5-0f2d9e84425a_2570x1729.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!ikb4!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6ae6a01d-0fe5-4d00-a4a5-0f2d9e84425a_2570x1729.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Below is a look at where the peers have traded over time. </p><p>All-time and 10-year P/B:</p><div class="image-gallery-embed" data-attrs="{&quot;gallery&quot;:{&quot;images&quot;:[{&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/ffc35813-3937-46a7-a089-5329b63893b1_2400x1240.png&quot;},{&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/28e22701-9536-4541-82ea-78754a906d46_2400x1240.png&quot;}],&quot;caption&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;alt&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;staticGalleryImage&quot;:{&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/14fc3281-e1a5-47ef-9da2-78106a1fe571_1456x720.png&quot;}},&quot;isEditorNode&quot;:true}"></div><p>All-time and 10-year NTM P/E:</p><div class="image-gallery-embed" data-attrs="{&quot;gallery&quot;:{&quot;images&quot;:[{&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/5d20b1ca-db48-439d-a3eb-354ef61cdc10_2400x1240.png&quot;},{&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/9afabb71-061f-46e2-bd54-baa5e8b91073_2400x1240.png&quot;}],&quot;caption&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;alt&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;staticGalleryImage&quot;:{&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/3d5d5074-c82f-4502-991f-7f91c4fb9a96_1456x720.png&quot;}},&quot;isEditorNode&quot;:true}"></div><p>All-time and 10-year ROEs:</p><div class="image-gallery-embed" data-attrs="{&quot;gallery&quot;:{&quot;images&quot;:[{&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/39233913-9611-454f-b15c-e193569b1203_2400x1240.png&quot;},{&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/d8cd3701-4f11-4777-9b82-5b5c9db243f4_2400x1240.png&quot;}],&quot;caption&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;alt&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;staticGalleryImage&quot;:{&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/b75be180-e8f6-4bb2-94f3-e3cd068ccfeb_1456x720.png&quot;}},&quot;isEditorNode&quot;:true}"></div><p>It seems the peer group has generally traded in a 1.5-2.5x P/B range and a 10-18x NTM P/E range. Multiples have tracked ROEs in the space, which suffered in the years following the GFC due to a confluence of issues including low interest rates and slow premium growth. </p><p><em>Simple Returns Analysis</em></p><p>Below are a few simple forward model cases and returns analyses. These analyses simply project out ROEs/growth in BVPS for a few years, then assign a multiple.</p><ul><li><p>Base case: ROEs drop from 20% to 16% over 5 years; exit P/E of 14x (12x Fwd)</p></li><li><p>Upside case: ROEs drop from 20% to 17.5% over 5 years; exit LTM P/E of 16.5x (14x Fwd)</p></li><li><p>Downside case: ROEs drop from 18% to 14% over 5 years; exit LTM P/E of 12.5x (11x Fwd)</p></li></ul><p>These cases generate 5-year returns of:</p><ul><li><p>Base: 2.7x, 22%</p></li><li><p>Upside: 3.5x, 28%</p></li><li><p>Down: 1.9x, 14%</p></li></ul><p>Base case:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!wo0w!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0536f965-722c-430c-a342-b86f8b27d057_1895x725.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!wo0w!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0536f965-722c-430c-a342-b86f8b27d057_1895x725.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!wo0w!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0536f965-722c-430c-a342-b86f8b27d057_1895x725.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!wo0w!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0536f965-722c-430c-a342-b86f8b27d057_1895x725.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!wo0w!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0536f965-722c-430c-a342-b86f8b27d057_1895x725.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!wo0w!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0536f965-722c-430c-a342-b86f8b27d057_1895x725.png" width="1456" height="557" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/0536f965-722c-430c-a342-b86f8b27d057_1895x725.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:557,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:97983,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/150642966?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0536f965-722c-430c-a342-b86f8b27d057_1895x725.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!wo0w!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0536f965-722c-430c-a342-b86f8b27d057_1895x725.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!wo0w!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0536f965-722c-430c-a342-b86f8b27d057_1895x725.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!wo0w!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0536f965-722c-430c-a342-b86f8b27d057_1895x725.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!wo0w!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0536f965-722c-430c-a342-b86f8b27d057_1895x725.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Upside case:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!eqLu!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F95af0aad-8aed-46ac-813d-3a5b6b8cc8d3_1895x725.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!eqLu!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F95af0aad-8aed-46ac-813d-3a5b6b8cc8d3_1895x725.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!eqLu!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F95af0aad-8aed-46ac-813d-3a5b6b8cc8d3_1895x725.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!eqLu!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F95af0aad-8aed-46ac-813d-3a5b6b8cc8d3_1895x725.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!eqLu!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F95af0aad-8aed-46ac-813d-3a5b6b8cc8d3_1895x725.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!eqLu!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F95af0aad-8aed-46ac-813d-3a5b6b8cc8d3_1895x725.png" width="1456" height="557" 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F95af0aad-8aed-46ac-813d-3a5b6b8cc8d3_1895x725.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!eqLu!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F95af0aad-8aed-46ac-813d-3a5b6b8cc8d3_1895x725.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!eqLu!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F95af0aad-8aed-46ac-813d-3a5b6b8cc8d3_1895x725.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!eqLu!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F95af0aad-8aed-46ac-813d-3a5b6b8cc8d3_1895x725.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Downside case:</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!R3ge!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F94718e07-0332-40e1-84ad-f0cb235080ae_1895x725.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!R3ge!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F94718e07-0332-40e1-84ad-f0cb235080ae_1895x725.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!R3ge!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F94718e07-0332-40e1-84ad-f0cb235080ae_1895x725.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!R3ge!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F94718e07-0332-40e1-84ad-f0cb235080ae_1895x725.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!R3ge!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F94718e07-0332-40e1-84ad-f0cb235080ae_1895x725.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!R3ge!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F94718e07-0332-40e1-84ad-f0cb235080ae_1895x725.png" width="1456" height="557" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/94718e07-0332-40e1-84ad-f0cb235080ae_1895x725.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:557,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:98165,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/i/150642966?img=https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F94718e07-0332-40e1-84ad-f0cb235080ae_1895x725.png&quot;,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!R3ge!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F94718e07-0332-40e1-84ad-f0cb235080ae_1895x725.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!R3ge!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F94718e07-0332-40e1-84ad-f0cb235080ae_1895x725.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!R3ge!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F94718e07-0332-40e1-84ad-f0cb235080ae_1895x725.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!R3ge!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F94718e07-0332-40e1-84ad-f0cb235080ae_1895x725.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>In all cases, I assume some level of drop off in ROEs. </p><p>Reasons to believe that ROEs/growth will stay elevated:</p><ul><li><p>Demonstrated track record of high ROEs, including 4 years running of ~20% (despite a significant drag from growth investments &amp; subscale business lines)</p></li><li><p>Array of high-return growth opportunities to pursue </p></li><li><p>Material operating leverage still on the come in US Programs, US Surety, US Corporate Insurance</p></li><li><p>Trisura is overcapitalized, with an 11% debt-to-capital ratio vs. a long-term target of 20%. Operating at its target level of 20% would conservatively add another ~1.5% to Trisura&#8217;s ROE</p></li></ul><p>Reasons to believe that ROEs/growth will taper off:</p><ul><li><p>A soft(er) P&amp;C market will pressure combined ratios (more on this later)</p></li><li><p>Operating ROEs will continue to lag actual ROEs (more on this later)</p></li><li><p>A significant decline in interest rates</p></li><li><p>Generally, it would be a rare outlier case if Trisura maintained a ~20% ROE over the long-term. Only Progressive and Kinsale have done it out of the peer group over the last 10 years (Trisura Specialty has also, for what it&#8217;s worth, though on a much smaller premium base)</p></li></ul><h2>Management &amp; Ownership</h2><p><em>David Clare (CEO)</em></p><p>David Clare has been the CEO of Trisura since 2018. He&#8217;s 39 years old, and prior to Trisura, spent time at PVI (the Brookfield exec owned investment partnership), Power Corporation of Canada (a financial service conglomerate) focused on corporate development and strategy, and CIBC (within their financial services group) in investment banking roles to begin his career. </p><p>He is responsible for &#8220;group strategy, corporate development, investor relations, capital allocation, and managing the investment portfolio.&#8221; He is not responsible for management of Trisura&#8217;s operating businesses, which currently falls to Richard Grant (Specialty) and Michael Beasley (US Programs). So while he&#8217;s not a seasoned operator, he&#8217;s also not being asked to be one, either.</p><p>The good news with Clare is that he seems pretty smart and he is young. So if he is indeed very talented, he has a long runway ahead of him. It shows quite a bit of confidence that Brookfield/PVI inserted him as CEO when he was only ~34 years old, though I believe it is a Brookfield MO to give young, hungry &amp; promising folks a lot of responsibility early. While I&#8217;d say the jury still has to be out on Clare, I feel confident that under his and the Board&#8217;s direction, that Trisura will both (1) stick to their knitting<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-27" href="#footnote-27" target="_self">27</a> and (2) likely make smart capital allocation decisions.</p><p>Clare has been able to support Trisura&#8217;s growth through four separate equity raises amounting to ~c$330m, done at a weighted average P/B of ~4x. With this capital, Trisura has established a leadership position in US/Canada fronting and expanded its Specialty operations into the US, setting Trisura up for its next leg of growth. Clare has also led a few smaller acquisitions/team &#8220;lift-outs&#8221;/book rollovers which have helped supplement Trisura&#8217;s growth. </p><p><em>Richard Grant (Head of Specialty)</em></p><p>Richard Grant has been with Trisura Specialty since its inception leading the Corporate Insurance practice and most recently acting as Trisura Specialty's COO. He took over the division from Chris Sekine in 2025, who led that segment for 5 years after taking over from Greg Morrison (who co-founded Trisura in 2006).</p><p>It isn&#8217;t the continuity you&#8217;d ideally like to see for this segment. But this division has yet to do anything but outperform, even with Morrison out of the business now for 5 years. </p><p><em>Michael Beasley (Head of US Programs)</em></p><p>Michael Beasley founded the US Programs division in 2018. After starting his career in reinsurance, in 1999 he joined State National to help launch their fronting business. He led SNC&#8217;s fronting business for several years, and SNC went on to become the dominant fronting franchise in the US. After running a couple other carriers, he began raising capital for a hybrid fronting business around 2016, eventually partnering with Brookfield (Clare helped lead this investment while at PVI). When Trisura was spun out from Brookfield in 2017, the Specialty and US Programs businesses were joined together. </p><p>While there have been some real hiccups along the way (the Q4&#8217;22 write-down, the newly exited lines&#8212;more on those later), I think for the most part US Programs has executed well:</p><ul><li><p>Scaled the business into one of the top fronting carriers in the US from a standing start in 2017, holding it together through a period of extremely rapid growth</p></li><li><p>Made seemingly intelligent strategic decisions: avoided unprofitable &#8220;insure-tech&#8221; customers<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-28" href="#footnote-28" target="_self">28</a> and other dubious lines<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-29" href="#footnote-29" target="_self">29</a>, focused on high-quality &#8220;super MGAs&#8221;<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-30" href="#footnote-30" target="_self">30</a>, mostly avoided/protected against property cat and other volatile lines that might&#8217;ve permanently derailed the business</p></li><li><p>Created an organization with legitimate underwriting expertise that retained business on its balance sheet (one of first to do this), appealing to both reinsurers and MGAs</p></li><li><p>Attracted a high-quality set of reinsurance partners</p></li><li><p>Their current book (which is a very substantial c$2bn in DWP) grew 27% in 2024 with an 81% operating combined ratio. This is not shabby, hard market notwithstanding</p></li></ul><p><em>BoD</em></p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!lQPe!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F09c3abad-e8ad-4642-a8c0-328b0c82e35a_837x612.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!lQPe!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F09c3abad-e8ad-4642-a8c0-328b0c82e35a_837x612.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!lQPe!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F09c3abad-e8ad-4642-a8c0-328b0c82e35a_837x612.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!lQPe!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F09c3abad-e8ad-4642-a8c0-328b0c82e35a_837x612.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!lQPe!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F09c3abad-e8ad-4642-a8c0-328b0c82e35a_837x612.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!lQPe!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F09c3abad-e8ad-4642-a8c0-328b0c82e35a_837x612.png" width="837" height="612" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/09c3abad-e8ad-4642-a8c0-328b0c82e35a_837x612.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:612,&quot;width&quot;:837,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:147819,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:null,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!lQPe!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F09c3abad-e8ad-4642-a8c0-328b0c82e35a_837x612.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!lQPe!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F09c3abad-e8ad-4642-a8c0-328b0c82e35a_837x612.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!lQPe!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F09c3abad-e8ad-4642-a8c0-328b0c82e35a_837x612.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!lQPe!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F09c3abad-e8ad-4642-a8c0-328b0c82e35a_837x612.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p><em>George Myhal (Chairman)</em></p><p>George Myhal spent 37 years at Brookfield, including 14 years as a Senior Managing Partner. He joined Brookfield when it was only 12 people. From 2015 to 2018, he was President &amp; CEO of PVI. I believe he was David&#8217;s &#8220;boss&#8221; at PVI.</p><p><em>Robert Taylor</em></p><p>Robert Taylor was a co-founder of Trisura Specialty. He served as the CEO from inception in 2006 until 2012. Previously, he was the President and CEO of London Guarantee Insurance Company, which <a href="https://www.canadianunderwriter.ca/insurance/st-paul-acquisition-of-london-guarantee-secures-canadian-positioning-1000001491/">sold for $125m in 2001</a>. At the time, it looks as if London Guarantee was the #2 player in the Canadian surety market and also wrote financial/professional service lines (basically the Trisura Specialty of yesteryear). It had NWP of $65m in 2000, 2/3rds of which was surety business.</p><p><em>Barton Hedges</em></p><p>Barton Hedges was CEO of Greenlight Capital Re, a specialist P&amp;C reinsurer, from 2011 to 2017. He was previously President and Chief Underwriting Officer of Greenlight Re from 2006 to 2011. Prior to joining Greenlight, he served as President and Chief Operating Officer of Platinum Underwriters Bermuda, a property, casualty, and finite risk reinsurer, from 2002 to 2005. Before Platinum, he served as executive vice president and COO of Scandinavian Re. He has over 30 years of experience in the P&amp;C insurance/reinsurance industry.</p><p><em>Paul Gallagher</em></p><p>Paul Gallagher has been Vice President Investments of Carfin, an investment vehicle with holdings in private and public companies, since 2016. Previously, he was the CFO at Wittington Investments. </p><p><em>Ownership</em></p><p>Management ownership (from Mar-24; 2025 levels haven&#8217;t yet been disclosed)</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!SKgq!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1055fa7c-ca18-476a-9569-17d49ded3606_676x492.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!SKgq!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1055fa7c-ca18-476a-9569-17d49ded3606_676x492.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!SKgq!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1055fa7c-ca18-476a-9569-17d49ded3606_676x492.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!SKgq!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1055fa7c-ca18-476a-9569-17d49ded3606_676x492.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!SKgq!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1055fa7c-ca18-476a-9569-17d49ded3606_676x492.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!SKgq!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1055fa7c-ca18-476a-9569-17d49ded3606_676x492.png" width="676" height="492" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/1055fa7c-ca18-476a-9569-17d49ded3606_676x492.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:492,&quot;width&quot;:676,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:56658,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:null,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!SKgq!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1055fa7c-ca18-476a-9569-17d49ded3606_676x492.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!SKgq!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1055fa7c-ca18-476a-9569-17d49ded3606_676x492.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!SKgq!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1055fa7c-ca18-476a-9569-17d49ded3606_676x492.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!SKgq!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1055fa7c-ca18-476a-9569-17d49ded3606_676x492.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p><em>Insider Buying/Selling</em></p><p>The record of insider buying at Trisura is not going to blow you away. There has been just one larger block purchased on the open market in recent years from what I can tell&#8212;a ~c$1.2m purchase by George Myhal in Jan-24 at $33.44. </p><p>This is a stock that&#8217;s traded at elevated multiples, however. So perhaps being net sellers as a group can be forgiven. Further, this is also a management team that may not have the resources yet to be making large purchases.</p><p>In terms of sales (since 2022):</p><ul><li><p>Clare sold a ~c$1.8m block in Jun-22 (at $33.41)</p></li><li><p>Beasley sold ~c$5.2m in stock from Jun-22 through Sep-24 at an avg PPS of ~$38</p></li><li><p>CFO David Scotland sold a ~c$1.8m block in Jun-24 (at $41.85)</p></li><li><p>Former CEO of Trisura Specialty, Chris Sekine, has sold off c$9.6m of stock since Mar-22 at an avg PPS of ~$39</p></li></ul><p>The most eyebrow raising of the sales would be Beasley&#8217;s. It appears he&#8217;s sold off the vast majority of his stake in the company, despite still leading the US Programs business. </p><h2>Market Overview</h2><p><em>Surety</em></p><p>The vast majority of the surety that Trisura writes is contract surety bonds in the construction sector. </p><p>A surety bond is a three-party agreement involving a surety, a contractor, and a project owner. The surety guarantees that the contractor will fulfill its obligations as outlined in the construction contract. If the contractor fails to meet these obligations, the surety steps in to complete the work or compensate the owner&#8212;though this is generally limited to the bond amount. In the event that the surety incurs any costs while resolving issues, it actually has the right to recover the amounts from the contractor through a general indemnity agreement. </p><p>Any federal construction contract valued at $25,000 or more requires a surety bond. Most state and municipal governments have a similar requirement. And many private owners also elect to require contract surety bonds. </p><p>A bond typically costs the contractor between 0.5% and 3% of the contract amount.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!xXg6!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbbbfb506-1a7c-45a3-b2e1-ecc8c091f0db_854x628.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!xXg6!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbbbfb506-1a7c-45a3-b2e1-ecc8c091f0db_854x628.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!xXg6!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbbbfb506-1a7c-45a3-b2e1-ecc8c091f0db_854x628.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!xXg6!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbbbfb506-1a7c-45a3-b2e1-ecc8c091f0db_854x628.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!xXg6!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbbbfb506-1a7c-45a3-b2e1-ecc8c091f0db_854x628.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!xXg6!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbbbfb506-1a7c-45a3-b2e1-ecc8c091f0db_854x628.png" width="854" height="628" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/bbbfb506-1a7c-45a3-b2e1-ecc8c091f0db_854x628.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:628,&quot;width&quot;:854,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:251113,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:null,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!xXg6!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbbbfb506-1a7c-45a3-b2e1-ecc8c091f0db_854x628.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!xXg6!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbbbfb506-1a7c-45a3-b2e1-ecc8c091f0db_854x628.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!xXg6!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbbbfb506-1a7c-45a3-b2e1-ecc8c091f0db_854x628.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!xXg6!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbbbfb506-1a7c-45a3-b2e1-ecc8c091f0db_854x628.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>The surety market in Canada is roughly c$900m. The top 10 players represent about 90% of the market. Trisura has ~12% market share and is the #4 player. Its competitors in Canada are predominantly the &#8220;large international insurance giants&#8221; (e.g. Travelers, Zurichs, Intact). Trisura has historically focused almost entirely on small to medium contractors. However, Trisura very recently added a team (poached from a competitor) that will target large Canadian contractors, which opens up a new segment of the market. </p><p>The US market is ~$10bn in size and the top 10 players own roughly 60% of the market. As mentioned before, the overall loss ratio for the US market is very similar to that of Canada&#8217;s. Trisura finished 2024 as a <a href="https://mbasurety.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/20243Q-Top-100-Surety.pdf">top 35</a> surety underwriter in the US, up from <a href="https://mbasurety.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/SFAA-Surety-Results_2023Y.pdf">51st</a> in 2023.</p><p>As you can see above, loss ratios across the surety industry have been pretty benign for the last ~20 years. However this hasn&#8217;t always been the case, as you can see in the chart below. Per the <a href="https://cdn.ymaws.com/www.surety.org/resource/resmgr/pubs-public/2014suretyoutlooksfaa.pdf">SFAA</a>:</p><p>&#8220;Throughout the 1990s, set in a thriving economy with falling interest rates, the surety industry was profitable. Contractor failures were at low levels. Excess capacity built up as a number of new surety companies entered the market. Competitive pressures to maintain and even grow market share led to softened underwriting (which resulted in sureties writing contractors that may not have been fully qualified for the work they were seeking) and softened pricing. These contractors were not able to withstand the shock caused by the financial downturn in the mid-2000s, leading to increased surety losses.&#8221;</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!msG3!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F75aa8611-cbb3-4fd4-aefe-e9ef71ea7cda_517x384.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!msG3!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F75aa8611-cbb3-4fd4-aefe-e9ef71ea7cda_517x384.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!msG3!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F75aa8611-cbb3-4fd4-aefe-e9ef71ea7cda_517x384.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!msG3!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F75aa8611-cbb3-4fd4-aefe-e9ef71ea7cda_517x384.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!msG3!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F75aa8611-cbb3-4fd4-aefe-e9ef71ea7cda_517x384.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!msG3!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F75aa8611-cbb3-4fd4-aefe-e9ef71ea7cda_517x384.png" width="517" height="384" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/75aa8611-cbb3-4fd4-aefe-e9ef71ea7cda_517x384.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:384,&quot;width&quot;:517,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:58347,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:null,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!msG3!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F75aa8611-cbb3-4fd4-aefe-e9ef71ea7cda_517x384.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!msG3!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F75aa8611-cbb3-4fd4-aefe-e9ef71ea7cda_517x384.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!msG3!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F75aa8611-cbb3-4fd4-aefe-e9ef71ea7cda_517x384.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!msG3!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F75aa8611-cbb3-4fd4-aefe-e9ef71ea7cda_517x384.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>&#8220;Since the early 2000s, the surety industry (committed not to repeat the mistakes of the past) appears to have maintained an underwriting discipline as the industry has recovered and profits have returned. Thus, when a weak economy returned and job opportunities became scarcer during 2007-2008, sureties generally were bonding quality contractors that could financially withstand the downturn and make the tough but sound decisions to scale down their operations. Quality contractors also were able to undertake the completion risk of struggling subcontractors.&#8221;</p><p>My understanding is that a combination of the <a href="https://www.propertycasualty360.com/2002/02/25/enron-mess-highlights-need-for-better-surety-underwriting/?slreturn=20250220183526">Enron blow-up</a> and Boston&#8217;s <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Dig">&#8220;Big Dig&#8221;</a> project would have contributed substantially to the loss ratios of the early 2000s. These would represent pretty unique/outlier events, though of course such events can and surely will happen again. </p><p><em>Programs</em></p><p>The US MGA market is about $100bn in size, and accounts for ~10% of the overall US P&amp;C market. As you can see below, the MGA market grew by 80% from 2019 to 2022 (see chart on right).</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!cmp6!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb4ee6ef9-b49b-4940-b4ac-f26df3da78b7_1094x569.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!cmp6!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb4ee6ef9-b49b-4940-b4ac-f26df3da78b7_1094x569.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!cmp6!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb4ee6ef9-b49b-4940-b4ac-f26df3da78b7_1094x569.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!cmp6!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb4ee6ef9-b49b-4940-b4ac-f26df3da78b7_1094x569.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!cmp6!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb4ee6ef9-b49b-4940-b4ac-f26df3da78b7_1094x569.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!cmp6!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb4ee6ef9-b49b-4940-b4ac-f26df3da78b7_1094x569.png" width="1094" height="569" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/b4ee6ef9-b49b-4940-b4ac-f26df3da78b7_1094x569.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:569,&quot;width&quot;:1094,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:184273,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:null,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!cmp6!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb4ee6ef9-b49b-4940-b4ac-f26df3da78b7_1094x569.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!cmp6!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb4ee6ef9-b49b-4940-b4ac-f26df3da78b7_1094x569.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!cmp6!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb4ee6ef9-b49b-4940-b4ac-f26df3da78b7_1094x569.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!cmp6!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb4ee6ef9-b49b-4940-b4ac-f26df3da78b7_1094x569.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>According to <a href="https://www.insurancebusinessmag.com/us/news/breaking-news/how-did-mgas-fare-in-2023-492896.aspx">Insurance News</a>:</p><p>&#8220;The top five [MGAs] together represented approximately 17.6% of global MGA revenues in 2023. The shares for the top 50, top 100, and top 300 groups were 55.4%, 67.5%, and 84.4%, respectively, reflecting a fragmented yet highly dynamic sector. According to Insuramore, there are around 3,000 enterprises involved in MGA activities worldwide, with over 1,650 projected to write premiums exceeding $10 million this year&#8230;By ownership, the top 300 groups in 2023 included 58 broker-owned, 31 insurer-owned, and 211 independent groups, many backed by private equity firms.&#8221;</p><p>Fronting carriers account for around 15% of the MGA market, or $15bn of DWP. Thus Trisura, at around USD1.5bn of fronting DWP, accounts for about 10% of the US fronting market (and 1.5% of the entire US MGA market). According to <a href="https://www.conning.com/about-us/news/ir-pr---mga-2024">Conning</a>, US Fronting carrier premium grew 27% in 2023 and has more than tripled since 2020. If you go back ~13-15 years or so, the fronting industry was approximately $1.5-2bn DWP in size, so it&#8217;s grown approximately 10x over this period.</p><p>The fronting industry was pioneered by State National, and they are still the largest player in the space at ~$4.9bn of DWP in &#8216;24. Historically, fronting companies had more of a pure regulatory slant to their value proposition. For example, if you were an insurer working with a multi-national company, in order to write insurance worldwide, you might need to partner with a front in certain jurisdictions (many jurisdictions&#8212;US, Canada, Australia, UK&#8212;require local policies to be issued, and thus require the underwriter to be licensed in that jurisdiction). By partnering with a fronting company, the insurer avoids the complexity of having to get licensed itself in a situation where it may not be worth the hassle. Similarly, for an MGA&#8217;s captive vehicle, working through a front could make good sense for the same reason. </p><p>Since 2017, against this backdrop of rapid growth, a flood of new fronting companies have entered the space. In all, there are an estimated 20 dedicated fronting carriers and, if including fronting units of traditional insurers, over 30 altogether.</p><div class="image-gallery-embed" data-attrs="{&quot;gallery&quot;:{&quot;images&quot;:[{&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/e4b745fa-c467-43a5-b1cb-fe5634a28dc7_609x462.png&quot;},{&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/743265a4-b741-4a75-b261-9de61b5b7be1_632x515.png&quot;},{&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/e15de182-f20e-4e19-b005-81b3a8a7e199_621x456.png&quot;}],&quot;caption&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;alt&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;staticGalleryImage&quot;:{&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/7b881dca-0f2f-4613-a2f2-df4a8583e0dc_1456x474.png&quot;}},&quot;isEditorNode&quot;:true}"></div><p>According to the table below from this <a href="https://www.ajg.com/gallagherre/-/media/files/gallagher/gallagherre/2024/north-america-mga-market-fronting-carrier-counterparties-2023.pdf">Gallagher</a> report, looking at the reinsurance ceded column, Trisura is the 3rd largest group by this metric in the US, behind SNC and Clear Blue. </p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!TyoK!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8696e761-7fcf-40d6-9983-dff20a32ba84_590x610.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!TyoK!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8696e761-7fcf-40d6-9983-dff20a32ba84_590x610.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!TyoK!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8696e761-7fcf-40d6-9983-dff20a32ba84_590x610.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!TyoK!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8696e761-7fcf-40d6-9983-dff20a32ba84_590x610.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!TyoK!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8696e761-7fcf-40d6-9983-dff20a32ba84_590x610.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!TyoK!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8696e761-7fcf-40d6-9983-dff20a32ba84_590x610.png" width="644" height="665.8305084745763" 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8696e761-7fcf-40d6-9983-dff20a32ba84_590x610.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!TyoK!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8696e761-7fcf-40d6-9983-dff20a32ba84_590x610.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!TyoK!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8696e761-7fcf-40d6-9983-dff20a32ba84_590x610.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!TyoK!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8696e761-7fcf-40d6-9983-dff20a32ba84_590x610.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Over time, as growth slows in the industry, many expect it to consolidate around a handful of the most scaled groups.</p><h2>Key Risks</h2><p><em>Counterparty Risk </em></p><p>A major risk that could spoil this story is counterparty risk in the fronting business. </p><p>While the fronting business cedes the vast majority of the premium/risk it underwrites, the front is ultimately on the hook for all of it should its counterparty fail to pay its obligations. And because the fronting model runs with a higher degree of &#8220;leverage&#8221; (gross premiums to capital) than a traditional insurer, this magnifies this counterparty risk. </p><p>As you can see below, Trisura&#8217;s counterparties, weighted by dollars of expected recoverables, are 43% A+/A++ rated, 13% A rated, 14% A- rated, and 30% B++ rated &amp; below. For the recoverables that are rated B++ rated &amp; below, Trisura requires collateral equal to 100% of expected recoverables (with collateral growing as expected recoverables grow).</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!nyPo!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe2ff06bc-8acb-4569-82c4-3993a79e89bc_853x632.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!nyPo!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe2ff06bc-8acb-4569-82c4-3993a79e89bc_853x632.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!nyPo!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe2ff06bc-8acb-4569-82c4-3993a79e89bc_853x632.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!nyPo!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe2ff06bc-8acb-4569-82c4-3993a79e89bc_853x632.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!nyPo!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe2ff06bc-8acb-4569-82c4-3993a79e89bc_853x632.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!nyPo!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe2ff06bc-8acb-4569-82c4-3993a79e89bc_853x632.png" width="853" height="632" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/e2ff06bc-8acb-4569-82c4-3993a79e89bc_853x632.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:632,&quot;width&quot;:853,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:196904,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:null,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!nyPo!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe2ff06bc-8acb-4569-82c4-3993a79e89bc_853x632.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!nyPo!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe2ff06bc-8acb-4569-82c4-3993a79e89bc_853x632.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!nyPo!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe2ff06bc-8acb-4569-82c4-3993a79e89bc_853x632.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!nyPo!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fe2ff06bc-8acb-4569-82c4-3993a79e89bc_853x632.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>While maintaining a high-quality and diversified panel of reinsurers (as well as requiring collateral for weaker counterparties) goes a long way towards limiting counterparty risk, it is still a significant issue.</p><p>A failed reinsurer, even an A+ rated/top-3 reinsurer, is not outside the realm of possibilities, as industry expert Warren Buffett would tell you:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;It&#8217;s interesting. In the last 30 years, the three largest reinsurance companies and I&#8217;m counting Lloyd&#8217;s as one company&#8230;and they&#8217;re all in fine shape now, they&#8217;re first-class operations, but all three of them came close to extinction sometime in the last 30 years, or reasonably close.</em></p><p><em>And we didn&#8217;t really have any truly extraordinary natural catastrophes. The worst we had was Katrina in, whatever it was, 2006 or thereabouts, 2005. But we didn&#8217;t have any worst-case situation. And all three of those companies, which everybody looks at as totally good on the asset side, if you show a recoverable from them, two of the three actually made some deals with us to help them in some way. And they&#8217;re all in fine shape now.</em></p><p><em>But it&#8217;s really not a good business, if you&#8217;re a standalone insurer, if you keep enough capital to really be sure you can pay anything that comes along, under any kind of conditions.&#8221;</em></p><p><em>&#8212; 2019 BRK Shareholder Meeting</em></p></blockquote><p>As you can see from Trisura&#8217;s reinsurance relationships above, their largest counterparty represented c$382m of &#8220;reinsurance contract assets,&#8221; or money that is expected to be owed to cover losses. If this reinsurer were to completely fail to pay, Trisura&#8217;s book value (of ~c$800m) would be cut in half. I believe this counterparty is Swiss Re, the largest reinsurer in the world with $40bn of GWP. But nonetheless, it is still a risk.</p><p>Furthermore, Trisura does not have a clean record when it comes to managing counterparty risk. In Q4&#8217;22, the company wrote down a reinsurance recoverable to the tune of c$81.5m (~15% of book value at the time) related to a program in the US fronting business. While the recoverable was backed by an MGA&#8217;s captive reinsurer (and therefore supported by collateral), Trisura maintained an additional layer of catastrophe reinsurance to support the program. Over the course of 2023, the prices of catastrophe reinsurance increased dramatically, which &#8220;reduced the amount of collateral available&#8221; to this program. This caused a &#8220;disagreement over obligations&#8221; with the captive, which ultimately resulted in the write-down. Thus, the driver of the write-down was not claims experienced but rather higher catastrophe reinsurance costs. But regardless, the write-down took out a big chunk of book value and resulted in a full-year overall ROE of 6% (vs. 20% excluding the impact of the write-down).</p><p>This incident resulted in the share price falling from a high of ~c$45 around &#8216;22 year-end to a low of c$30 later in &#8216;23. Trisura went on to raise c$50m in a Aug-23 offering priced at c$32.90 to help shore up its capital base.</p><p>Industry-wide, another counterparty incident occurred in 2023 when Goldman-backed &#8220;alt capital&#8221; provider Vesttoo was revealed to have posted fraudulent collateral, causing fronts (including Clear Blue most prominently) to take write-downs and scramble to backfill Vesttoo&#8217;s capacity with other counterparties.</p><p>I could understand how this issue alone would cause an investor to pass on Trisura. And if this were a pure fronting business, I would. </p><p>But (1) I don&#8217;t believe Swiss Re will go bankrupt, (2) Trisura is a diversified insurance platform which limits the impact of a counterparty event, and (3) Trisura is further diversifying away from US Programs towards its primary lines. </p><p>From the Mar-25 TD fireside chat:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;I think there&#8217;s been a historic association of Trisura with certain lines of business in the public sphere. So the size and scale and rapidity of growth in the US Programs business or in the Canadian fronting business has sort of obfuscated for people what the core drivers of this platform are. I think if you talk to me in five years, the evolution of this business will be continued growth in those US Programs and the Canadian fronting lines of business. But a proportional shift in the contributors to the business&#8212;so surety as a North American platform, corporate insurance as a North American platform. You should just see a larger Specialty business in those traditional lines&#8230;I think there&#8217;s going to be disproportionate growth in surety and corporate insurance over the next couple of years as we build out those US platforms.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>Today, if one of the non-Swiss Re A+ reinsurers were to go bankrupt, it would represent a hit to BV of ~15%. In a few years, this should be closer to 10%. While such an event would be far from ideal, it does not scare me away given (1) the low likelihood of such an event (1 in 25 yrs?), (2) the damage would be limited to 10% of book and (3) that absent such an event, Trisura in theory gets to post ROEs of 15%+ in this line in a highly consistent manner.</p><p>Other mitigants:</p><ul><li><p>Even in the case of extreme financial distress or bankruptcy to one of its counterparties, the likelihood that Trisura couldn&#8217;t collect on any recoverables owed seems quite low. Insolvent reinsurers often go into runoff, meaning they continue paying claims using available assets. Further, if a reinsurer&#8217;s obligations are taken over by a solvent company, claims may still be honored</p></li><li><p>As discussed earlier, Trisura has a relatively high number of programs, and therefore a relatively low DWP per program. Thus, if there were ever a disagreement over a recoverable between Trisura and a counterparty (say where the counterparty could pay but wouldn&#8217;t), this would mitigate its impact</p></li><li><p>State National had famously navigated this risk for 28 straight years (prior to being acquired by Markel) without a single unpaid reinsurance recoverable, thanks in part to its exceptionally tight reinsurance contracts. The head of Trisura&#8217;s fronting operation, Michael Beasley, set up State National&#8217;s fronting business back in 1999</p></li><li><p>The Canadian fronting market is unique in that even highly rated reinsurers are required to provide collateral to the fronting carriers. Thus in its Canadian operation, Trisura has an extra layer of risk protection.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-31" href="#footnote-31" target="_self">31</a></p></li></ul><p><em>Soft Market</em></p><p>&#8220;Hard market&#8221; conditions in the insurance industry generally means: (1) increasing rates, (2) less competition, (3) stricter underwriting criteria, and (4) stricter terms of coverage. Hard markets are a set up for lower combined ratios and stronger performance.</p><p>A &#8220;soft market&#8221; is the opposite: (1) softening rates, (2) increased competition, (3) relaxed underwriting criteria, and (4) weaker terms. </p><p>The P&amp;C industry has been in a hard market since 2018, an unusually long period. The average length of a hard market since the 1980s has been roughly 3-4 years. There also haven&#8217;t been that many of them (mid-&#8217;70s, mid-&#8217;80s, early 2000s, early 2010s and the current market). </p><p>From <a href="https://www.leadersedge.com/p-c/property-casualty-hard-market-turns-6?utm_source=Pardot&amp;utm_medium=Email&amp;utm_content=Emerging+Trends&amp;utm_campaign=Emerging+Trends+-+April+2024">ALIRT Insurance Research</a>:</p><p>&#8220;The chart below shows the change in net written premium as a proxy for rate, in the absence of broker surveys before 2000.&#8221;</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!23TW!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F80ec6962-5157-4abb-8772-3b26fbaec52d_805x341.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!23TW!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F80ec6962-5157-4abb-8772-3b26fbaec52d_805x341.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!23TW!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F80ec6962-5157-4abb-8772-3b26fbaec52d_805x341.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!23TW!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F80ec6962-5157-4abb-8772-3b26fbaec52d_805x341.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!23TW!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F80ec6962-5157-4abb-8772-3b26fbaec52d_805x341.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!23TW!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F80ec6962-5157-4abb-8772-3b26fbaec52d_805x341.png" width="805" height="341" 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/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!23TW!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F80ec6962-5157-4abb-8772-3b26fbaec52d_805x341.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>&#8220;Annual price percentage increases in the last couple hard markets have been less steep but more protracted. Annual price boosts in this commercial lines cycle peaked at the end of 2020, and over the last five quarters, the increases have leveled out at the mid- to high-5% mark. This suggests that typical hard market competitive dynamics are occurring on the margins only; i.e., price discipline is holding across most business lines.&#8221;</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Teyx!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F17c11f57-1aec-4233-bca6-48a591c6d97a_941x300.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Teyx!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F17c11f57-1aec-4233-bca6-48a591c6d97a_941x300.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Teyx!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F17c11f57-1aec-4233-bca6-48a591c6d97a_941x300.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Teyx!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F17c11f57-1aec-4233-bca6-48a591c6d97a_941x300.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Teyx!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F17c11f57-1aec-4233-bca6-48a591c6d97a_941x300.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Teyx!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F17c11f57-1aec-4233-bca6-48a591c6d97a_941x300.png" width="941" height="300" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/17c11f57-1aec-4233-bca6-48a591c6d97a_941x300.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:300,&quot;width&quot;:941,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:123517,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:null,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Teyx!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F17c11f57-1aec-4233-bca6-48a591c6d97a_941x300.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Teyx!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F17c11f57-1aec-4233-bca6-48a591c6d97a_941x300.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Teyx!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F17c11f57-1aec-4233-bca6-48a591c6d97a_941x300.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Teyx!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F17c11f57-1aec-4233-bca6-48a591c6d97a_941x300.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>ALIRT attributes the current hard market conditions to, amongst other factors:</p><ul><li><p>&#8220;Persistent economic and social inflation that has produced much higher losses and loss adjustment costs than anticipated by pricing actuaries</p></li><li><p>Greater insured losses from weather-related events across a broader swath of the United States, again unanticipated and still seemingly impossible to model</p></li><li><p>Much more expensive and scarce reinsurance protection, especially for property coverage</p></li><li><p>A 15-year run of historically low interest rates (note: investment income historically accounts for the lion&#8217;s share&#8212;if not, at times, all&#8212;of P&amp;C operating profitability).&#8221;</p></li></ul><p>How much has Trisura benefitted from the hard market?</p><ul><li><p><em>Surety.</em> Management would tell you that the hard market has had very little impact on Surety. Surety, in fact, has been a soft, highly competitive market for the last ~5 years.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-32" href="#footnote-32" target="_self">32</a><a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-33" href="#footnote-33" target="_self">33</a></p></li><li><p><em>Risk Solutions.</em> This segment also seems to have seen a relatively muted impact from the hard market according to management.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-34" href="#footnote-34" target="_self">34</a><a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-35" href="#footnote-35" target="_self">35</a></p></li><li><p><em>Corporate Insurance.</em> In Corporate Insurance, while the hard market has been beneficial, Trisura plays in a niche area of the market less swayed by overall pricing trends.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-36" href="#footnote-36" target="_self">36</a></p></li><li><p><em>Programs.</em> While the hard market no doubt has helped with the profitability of the Programs book, a soft market is beneficial in terms of greater reinsurance capacity and easier terms from reinsurance partners. Management would tell you that the last couple of years have been a very difficult period to navigate in the fronting space for this reason.</p></li></ul><p>In all, while I expect a soft market to negatively impact the business, I don&#8217;t believe it will have a dramatic effect. As mentioned above, only 1/3rd of NOI is subject to underwriting uncertainty. I believe the rest of NOI would not be impacted materially by soft market conditions. Additionally, by assuming the Specialty business settles in the low 20s ROE (from ~30% levels the last few years), and by assuming Programs settles in the 15-18% range, I believe this reflects a normalized/balanced environment.</p><p>Lastly, over the past few years the hardest of hard market trends, I believe, were in cyber (which was seeing 50-100% annual price increases for a period) and property cat (supposedly one of its hardest markets ever). Neither of these areas would have had much of a positive impact on Trisura. In fact, property cat is a risk for which Trisura takes out additional &#8220;horizontal&#8221; protection across its US Programs, which eats into its margins there. Any savings it can generate on this reinsurance will fall straight to the bottom line. </p><p><em>Poor Underwriting</em></p><p>Poor underwriting is of course a risk, and it would be hard to know if Trisura (or any insurer) was in the process of writing a lot of bad business. </p><p>I think comfort can be gained here by (1) Trisura&#8217;s pristine track record (they&#8217;ve consistently beaten industry average combined ratios over many, many years) and (2) because generally, combined ratios tend to be pretty sticky industry-wide (i.e. top performers tend to stay top performers, etc.).</p><p>You can observe this phenomenon amongst Trisura&#8217;s specialty peer group.</p><div class="image-gallery-embed" data-attrs="{&quot;gallery&quot;:{&quot;images&quot;:[{&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/5285b877-2f49-4396-975d-5a5e5d95d97b_3001x1801.png&quot;},{&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/905a725f-878f-421a-8739-060f78244f2f_3001x1801.png&quot;},{&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/fb6f4d15-f419-415a-9cf7-3cee9669a6f0_3001x1801.png&quot;},{&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/07fcb8db-8308-4ee9-87fe-6799537fa2c1_3001x1801.png&quot;},{&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/3c06bb8b-f7a2-44a4-8c45-629e6f63c8e1_3001x1801.png&quot;},{&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/452cd855-0246-44f7-a58a-0ab92be32c26_3001x1801.png&quot;},{&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/1d40ad25-5ff1-4603-9532-3a9971c171d6_3001x1801.png&quot;},{&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/0e85f36e-cbf5-4944-9e16-4de06e14e8c1_3001x1801.png&quot;},{&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/24900f1d-e4e5-4b6a-946c-69042daa5d72_3001x1801.png&quot;}],&quot;caption&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;alt&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;staticGalleryImage&quot;:{&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/0918a273-034a-4087-8a47-054ab4c2ae42_1456x1454.png&quot;}},&quot;isEditorNode&quot;:true}"></div><p>I would expect Trisura&#8217;s combined ratios to be relatively sticky as well (as they have been historically). </p><p><em>Recent Unfavorable Claims Development</em></p><p>Trisura has a history of strong favorable prior year development in its primary lines. From the Jan-25 CIBC Conference:</p><blockquote><p><em>&#8220;Our platform has had a very strong history of conservative reserving. If you look at the Canadian vehicle, it has a 15 year track record of very strong and positive reserve development.&#8221; </em></p></blockquote><p>You can see their history of reserve development in the table below. </p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!mNYJ!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0b7d64b7-e220-4b53-8477-6158920c915b_2776x2048.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!mNYJ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, 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/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!mNYJ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0b7d64b7-e220-4b53-8477-6158920c915b_2776x2048.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!mNYJ!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0b7d64b7-e220-4b53-8477-6158920c915b_2776x2048.png" width="1456" height="1074" 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0b7d64b7-e220-4b53-8477-6158920c915b_2776x2048.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!mNYJ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0b7d64b7-e220-4b53-8477-6158920c915b_2776x2048.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" 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y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>After 2020, as we can see, the results are more mixed. This has been the result of the growing US Programs influence, and especially the poor performance of the &#8220;exited lines&#8221; within that segment. From its Q4&#8217;24 earnings call:</p><blockquote><p><em>Doug Young</em></p><p><em>&#8220;And then just lastly, when I look at the reserve triangle and the reserve developments, it looked like it was negative for the year. But I think there's kind of a bigger story underneath it. Can you talk about the split between the 3 buckets, the split between Canada, the U.S. ongoing program and the U.S. exited lines. Because in my head, I think Canada would be positive I think U.S. ongoing would be neutral and then the U.S. exited lines would be negative, but just hoping to get some color around that.&#8221;</em></p><p><em>David Clare</em></p><p><em>&#8220;I think that's a fair summary, Doug. We've had a pretty strong and consistent track record in Canada of positive reserve developments. You can see the delineation and profitability in our new disclosure in the MD&amp;A between those exited lines and the ongoing lines. And there was a disproportionate impact from those exited lines on that negative development. You can see strategically why we've moved away from these types of lines. [Those] are lines that we've been out of for some time now.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote><p>As we can see, the main culprit for the negative reserve development has been the &#8220;exited lines&#8221; in US Programs. Management indicates that the Canadian lines have likely continued to have positive developments, and that US Programs (ongoing lines) have been more neutral (sounds like moderately negative).</p><p>Thus, I believe comfort can be gained here by the fact that:</p><ul><li><p>The exited lines are a relatively small cohort for Trisura. In the &#8217;24 AR, it states that c$226.8m of GPW was written in these exited lines in &#8217;24. On a NPE basis, that&#8217;s likely in the neighborhood of ~c$20m. And that compares to a company-wide NPE of almost c$700m, so ~3% of total NPE. </p></li><li><p>Trisura has already fully reserved for these lines in their minds (we&#8217;ll see if they actually are, but they&#8217;ve at least gone through the exercise)</p></li><li><p>Management states that the duration on these lines are 2.6 yrs and that 80% of claims will be paid out in 4 years.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-37" href="#footnote-37" target="_self">37</a> So for those real problem years (2021 &amp; 2022), the impact should be waning significantly</p></li></ul><p>Thus for these lines to continue to dampen results very meaningfully would seem pretty hard, just mathematically speaking.</p><p>Of course more issues could crop up in US Programs, but (1) growth has been &amp; will be far more controlled in this segment than in the past (and likely flat for &#8217;25), (2) Trisura has been in the process of &#8220;high-grading&#8221; this portfolio for multiple years now (i.e. keeping the good, getting rid of the bad), (3) it seems management is very focused on taking a more conservative approach to reserving going forward (and have consolidated reserving responsibility for US Programs under their head offices in Toronto) and (4) management claims to have gone through their whole US Programs book with a fine toothed comb as part of this broader exited lines/reserve strengthening process.</p><p><em>Operating ROE vs. Actual ROE</em></p><p>Trisura has reported an adjusted ROE it calls &#8220;operating ROE&#8221; since 2019, which strips out &#8220;non-recurring&#8221; events like the Q4&#8217;22 write-down and the 2024 exited US Program lines. Since 2022, Trisura&#8217;s actual ROE has trailed its operating ROE by a cumulative 23% points, or 8% per year on average.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!bu8q!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F807e7260-d6cb-40c8-a76f-640b35655171_1759x809.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!bu8q!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F807e7260-d6cb-40c8-a76f-640b35655171_1759x809.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!bu8q!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F807e7260-d6cb-40c8-a76f-640b35655171_1759x809.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!bu8q!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F807e7260-d6cb-40c8-a76f-640b35655171_1759x809.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!bu8q!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F807e7260-d6cb-40c8-a76f-640b35655171_1759x809.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!bu8q!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F807e7260-d6cb-40c8-a76f-640b35655171_1759x809.png" width="1456" height="670" 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F807e7260-d6cb-40c8-a76f-640b35655171_1759x809.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!bu8q!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F807e7260-d6cb-40c8-a76f-640b35655171_1759x809.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!bu8q!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F807e7260-d6cb-40c8-a76f-640b35655171_1759x809.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!bu8q!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F807e7260-d6cb-40c8-a76f-640b35655171_1759x809.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" 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y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>There is reason to believe that operating &amp; actual ROEs will converge, however. </p><p>For one, the Specialty segment has already been &#8220;converged&#8221; over the years. It&#8217;s been US Programs that&#8217;s been the &#8220;problem child.&#8221; </p><p>And in US Programs you could chalk up the Q4&#8217;22 write-down to a unique, not to be (hopefully) repeated issue. And the recently exited lines, I think you could ascribe to a period of exceptional growth (which is bound to create a few substandard lines). Now that the book has been fully &#8220;high-graded&#8221; over multiple years, and now that growth will be much more controlled, I think it&#8217;s reasonable to expect a minor or no delta going forward. </p><p>But I can fully appreciate the skepticism here until Trisura is able to converge these numbers consistently.</p><p><em>Lack of Growth in US Programs</em></p><p>The lack of recent growth in this segment may be causing some investors to believe that Trisura&#8217;s fronting business has fallen behind its peers in the space. However, I believe Trisura&#8217;s largest program, At-Bay (a cyber-focused insurer), is simply in the process of churning. </p><p>Per the <a href="https://www.ajg.com/gallagherre/-/media/files/gallagher/gallagherre/2024/north-america-mga-market-fronting-carrier-counterparties-2023.pdf">Gallagher</a> report, At-Bay (or more specifically, At-Bay&#8217;s &#8220;captive&#8221; pool of insurance capital) was Trisura&#8217;s 2nd largest counterparty as of Dec-23. In Jan-23, it was announced that At-Bay <a href="https://www.at-bay.com/press_releases/at-bay-specialty-insurance-company/">acquired a licensed US insurer</a>. There would be no reason to make this acquisition unless At-Bay intended on becoming a fully blown primary lines insurer. In such a scenario, a fronting relationship would no longer be necessary. </p><p>I believe, reading between the lines on recent management commentary<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-38" href="#footnote-38" target="_self">38</a>, that this program will fully churn off in the coming quarters. At this point, growth should begin to reaccelerate.</p><p><em>No &#8220;Structural&#8221; Moat</em></p><p>The seemingly best insurers benefit from a clear structural moat. </p><ul><li><p>Progressive and GEICO benefit from a low-cost advantage in a sector that&#8217;s been riding strong secular growth for decades</p></li><li><p>BRK Reinsurance has a true &#8220;Fort Knox&#8221; balance sheet, and is maybe the only counterparty in the world that can be relied upon to make a payment in full, no matter what</p></li></ul><p>Trisura does not benefit from this type of advantage. While I like the lines they are in and think they will do well, consistently strong execution will be required to outperform. Success does not feel as &#8220;preordained&#8221; as it does for certain other top-quality insurers.</p><p><em>Others</em></p><ul><li><p>Lack of insider ownership &amp; buying</p></li><li><p>CEO turnover in Specialty </p></li><li><p>A significant decline in interest rates would reduce investment income &amp; profitability</p></li><li><p>Risk that exited lines (or US Programs generally) are still under-reserved</p></li><li><p>Insurance is generally a tough, commodity business </p></li></ul><h2>Conclusion</h2><p>Trisura has already ~2.5x&#8217;d BVPS since the spin (ex capital raises), and it looks well on its way to at least 2x&#8217;ing again over the next 5 years. </p><p>Despite its track record &amp; prospects, it&#8217;s perhaps a bit unloved/forgotten due to the continued languishing of the share price, the recent hiccups in US Programs (and the resulting worrisome-looking claims development) and it being a bit of a unique animal (i.e. not a pure play primary lines insurer).</p><p>My hope is that with continued strong performance (and a bit of re-rating as a result), the next handful of years will produce strong results. </p><p>Downside should be somewhat limited due to an undemanding multiple, significant room for error on ROEs (it seems ~15% would still be deemed &#8220;acceptable&#8221; by the market) and performance that should be (in theory) fairly predictable from here.</p><div class="subscription-widget-wrap-editor" data-attrs="{&quot;url&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/subscribe?&quot;,&quot;text&quot;:&quot;Subscribe&quot;,&quot;language&quot;:&quot;en&quot;}" data-component-name="SubscribeWidgetToDOM"><div class="subscription-widget show-subscribe"><div class="preamble"><p class="cta-caption">Thanks for reading Lewistown Capital! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work.</p></div><form class="subscription-widget-subscribe"><input type="email" class="email-input" name="email" placeholder="Type your email&#8230;" tabindex="-1"><input type="submit" class="button primary" value="Subscribe"><div class="fake-input-wrapper"><div class="fake-input"></div><div class="fake-button"></div></div></form></div></div><div><hr></div><h2>Important Disclaimer</h2><p>This post is intended for informational purposes only and you, the reader, should not make any financial, investment, or trading decisions based upon the author's commentary.</p><p>Although the information set forth above has been obtained or derived from sources believed to be reliable, the author does not make any representation or warranty, express or implied, as to the information's accuracy or completeness, nor does the author recommend that the above information serve as the basis of any investment decision.</p><p>Before investing in a security, readers should carefully consider their financial positions and risk tolerances to determine if such a stock selection is appropriate. At any time, the author may trade in or out of any securities that are mentioned in the report as long or short positions in his portfolio without disclosing this information.</p><p>This report&#8217;s estimated fundamental value only represents a best efforts estimate of the potential fundamental valuation of a specific security, and is not expressed as, or implied as, assessments of the quality of a security or an actionable investment strategy for an investor.</p><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-1" href="#footnote-anchor-1" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">1</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;Q: We talked about the US surety business potentially growing equal in size to the Canadian operation.  Can you give us an update in terms of how that expansion is progressing and what investors should expect over the next 12 to 24 months?</p><p>A: In the near term, I&#8217;m not expecting a huge material change in that US surety premium.  We&#8217;ve seen some good momentum this year, we talked about that in Q1 and Q2.  But the inflection point for that business is going to be a widely licensed platform.  So we closed in Spring of this year our acquisition of a US [treasury-listed] surety platform.  Our next job is to expand that platform across the US.  We&#8217;re going through that right now, it&#8217;s a very regulatory and legal heavy process.  That means the next 12 months the growth that we expect to achieve is really based on that old platform that we have in surety.  Candidly it&#8217;s performing well, we are seeing accelerated growth in that.  But that inflection point, where we start to say ok when can I expect to have a platform in the US that starts to mirror the size of the platform in dollar amounts in Canada &#8211; that&#8217;s probably 3 to 5 years away.  <strong>And we&#8217;re talking about a platform that hopefully at that time that&#8217;s $100m CAD in top line.  But what that means, if we take a step back, is we&#8217;ve got an entity today that is fully funded, fully set up for that type of premium base, and a combined ratio, reporting statistics that includes the drag of that build-out.  So what&#8217;s interesting about our platform today is that we&#8217;re investing in the entity, we&#8217;re building out new platforms that will be very significant for the entity in a few years.  We&#8217;re absorbing the cost of those through our platform today.  And if at any stage if we start to get through that breakeven point into the profitability, which we sort of expect in the next 2 years or so, that starts to get really attractive from a return perspective.&#8221; </strong>&#8212; <em>Sep-24 Scotiabank conference</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-2" href="#footnote-anchor-2" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">2</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;Q: So Trisura Specialty, formerly referred to as the Trisura Canadian segments, has generated impressive ROEs over the past few years.  What would be the near-term ROE outlook and what do you see as a sustainable mid-term target for that platform?</p><p>A: Just to level set for anyone who isn&#8217;t familiar with these figures, the Canadian platform has historically been writing close to a 30% ROE.  Something that we&#8217;re very open with people about is that&#8217;s likely not the long-term level of return for that business.  <strong>I think it probably settles in the low to mid 20s.</strong>  In the near-term, in Q1 and Q2, we did see the high 20s ROE level, and so certainly I think that&#8217;s an expectation that&#8217;s fair for the next quarter or so.  As we think about that in the long-term, as we think about a larger business, as we think about an entity maybe that&#8217;s not writing at a 81% combined ratio &#8211; <strong>maybe something like 85%, which is still very strong &#8211; you&#8217;re probably closer to that low to mid 20s ROE which we still think is spectacular.</strong>&#8221; &#8212; <em>Sep-24 Scotiabank conference</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-3" href="#footnote-anchor-3" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">3</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;President and CEO at Trisura Specialty Insurance Company</p><p>To give you kind of the back history, MGAs have been around pretty much since the 70s. They started to proliferate quite a bit in the late 80s, early 90s. But most of them were kind of wholesale operations that controlled certain niches in certain areas. But they&#8217;re really sales organizations.</p><p>And then some of the better ones started to hire some underwriting talent and they started to kind of morph into more, what I would say would be an underwriting, managing, general agency of a book of business versus just trying to be a distributor of a certain book of business. If you flash forward to the late 90s, early 2000s. Some of the better ones started to buy other ones and they started to add on more books of business.</p><p>And then what really happened after about 2010 is professional capital, mainly private equity, others started to take a notice at the space and thought this was a really interesting way to grow premiums without a balance sheet, without really being a traditional retailer or wholesaler. So a different nuance, but a great way to control business and control the customer and certain niches and lines of business.</p><p>So these private equity groups and other professional capital providers started to move into the space and provide money. And these MGAs got much more professional, started to really look and act like an insurance carrier just without the balance sheet and flash forward into the 2020s.</p><p>And now they&#8217;ve become the hottest space in the insurance industry. <strong>They control now upwards of probably $100 billion of premium, where back, say, in the early 80s and 90s, they were maybe a billion.</strong> <strong>So the proliferation has been tremendous. And they&#8217;ve gotten better access to the customer. They literally have better technology than insurance carriers. They&#8217;ve been able to outperform, and they service the brokers better.</strong></p><p>So, while before a lot of these MGAs were kind of quasi-distributors, quasi-underwriters, now they&#8217;re much more professional and they &#8211; and some of the bigger ones will have multiple books of business in those spaces and they continue to get more capital and they continue to grow. And the business continues to move out of large traditional insurance carriers for numerous reasons we can certainly get into, and into the MGA space.</p><p>Tegus Client</p><p>Got it. And so, do you feel like this trend toward MGAs or this really robust growth of premiums going through the MGAs, is that sustainable in your opinion?</p><p>President and CEO at Trisura Specialty Insurance Company</p><p>It&#8217;s sustainable. It&#8217;s not going to grow like it has between 2000 and I would say &#8217;13, &#8217;14, and 2024. You saw tremendous growth upwards of 10%, 20% a year. I think you&#8217;re going to get more down to that 5%, 10% that moves over there. And part of the reason for that is insurance carriers are just getting smarter.</p><p>They&#8217;re getting better at what they do. And they&#8217;re starting to figure out how to be more efficient, where a lot of times they just say, for instance, AIG, they couldn&#8217;t write a policy from an expense ratio standpoint internally for less than like $40,000 or $50,000.</p><p>So MGAs are able to come in and take these $1,500 to $50,000 policies away from these guys because they&#8217;re able to do it more efficiently and effectively. Now, some of these traditional carriers are starting to deploy technology and they&#8217;re starting to figure this out. So, they&#8217;re starting to get more efficient. So, I think there is going to be a little bit more competition going forward now between MGAs and carriers, but I think you will still have some growth in this space.&#8221; &#8212; <em>Tegus, Mar-24</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-4" href="#footnote-anchor-4" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">4</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;Carriers like Trisura and others have been able to jump in the foray and give these MGAs a different alternative as well as access to the reinsurance market, where a lot of these traditional carriers have gotten more and more capital, so they buy less and less reinsurance. So you have a lot of trapped capital in the reinsurance space, looking to figure out how to deploy that capital. So they come to people like me to do that through MGAs.&#8221; &#8212; <em>Tegus, Dec-22</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-5" href="#footnote-anchor-5" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">5</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;Q: What&#8217;s a reasonable expectation for mid-term ROE for the US platform?</p><p>A: <strong>We&#8217;re running today at about a mid-teens operating ROE.  I think as that continues to scale, my hope and expectation is that starts to creep into the mid to high teens.</strong>  You&#8217;ve seen precedents in that space achieving that and we&#8217;ve seen the potential for it to get there.  So I think as that entity continues to grow and scale, that mid to high teens ROE is what we&#8217;ll be targeting.&#8221; <em>&#8212; Sep-24 Scotiabank conference</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-6" href="#footnote-anchor-6" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">6</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;David Clare</p><p>Well, and that&#8217;s a good segue into the types of economics you&#8217;d be expecting from a fronting model. Where do you &#8211; what&#8217;s your touchstone on return on equity?</p><p>Michael Beasley</p><p>Yes. I think once you kind of start to hit that $1 billion premium number, if you&#8217;re doing all the other &#8211; you&#8217;re doing the blocking and tackling internally appropriately, you should be in that mid- to high teens ROEs. And if you outperform that, you could go higher. But I think for us, that&#8217;s really our target goal and that&#8217;s kind of what we presented back in 2016 was if this is done well, <strong>we should be able to hit ROEs in that 15% to 18% range.</strong>&#8221; <em>&#8212;</em> <em>&#8216;23 investor day</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-7" href="#footnote-anchor-7" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">7</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;<strong>This year, I would expect US Surety should be a mid to low 80s combined ratio.</strong> So you&#8217;re starting to see that contribution at a level that you would maybe not totally see on the Canadian side<em>&#8212;</em>we may be a little bit better in Canada with some more operational leverage. But you are profitable in that US Surety business now, and you should start to see some kick in of contribution. That&#8217;s important to note because for the last three years, US Surety has not been profitable. You&#8217;re building up, investing in people<em>&#8212;</em>you&#8217;re not scaled on a top line basis.&#8221;  <em>&#8212;</em> <em>Jan-25 CIBC Conference</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-8" href="#footnote-anchor-8" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">8</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>Note the company switched from reporting full combined ratios by specialty line to just loss ratios by specialty line in 2020. Thus, for Surety, Corp Insurance and Risk Solutions, after 2020, I use the reported loss ratio + the avg of the 2016-2019 expense ratio for each line. Using this expense ratio should be conservative, because each line has scaled considerably and should have benefitted from at least some degree of operating leverage since the 2016-2019 period.</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-9" href="#footnote-anchor-9" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">9</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;Jeff Fenwick</p><p>I just wanted to start my questions off with the Canadian fronting unit. I mean that&#8217;s an area that has surpassed, I guess, my expectations for growth. And I think you&#8217;ve mentioned it&#8217;s been a bit better than you might have been expecting also. Can you just give us a bit of color about why it&#8217;s been able to be so successful? Is it &#8211; was it just some identified gaps in the market?</p><p>Is it that the reinsurance partners just have a better cost of capital, it can price a bit more aggressively in the market? Or what have been the dynamics that have helped that unit grow so much?</p><p>David Clare</p><p>Yes. Appreciate the question, Jeff. And it&#8217;s a good narrative to highlight that Canadian fronting practice has grown ahead of our expectations. And more importantly, it&#8217;s contributed better profitability maybe than we anticipated at this stage. The nuance of Canadian fronting is a bit different than U.S. fronting. I mean what we do in Canada is more often fully fronting transactions and provides access to the Canadian market to reinsurers outside of Canada. <strong>So Trisura has been somewhat uniquely positioned to take advantage of that opportunity.</strong></p><p>We have the infrastructure and scale to provide the right platform and partnership for these reinsurers. But it&#8217;s typically in lines we don&#8217;t compete in. So this sets us up uniquely in the market to provide this access. <strong>And frankly, the demand from these reinsurers has been significant, probably more significant than we anticipated it would be in these Canadian markets. </strong>So it is a slightly different structure than the U.S., much more of that fully fronted model and driven by reinsurance demand for our Canadian business&#8230; </p><p>Jeff Fenwick</p><p>I guess the follow-on then is, is it an instance here where they are &#8211; you&#8217;re effectively taking share from the existing market, I assume, rather than being an absence of capacity locally. And when you think about that, I mean, how much further could this business scale potentially?</p><p>David Clare</p><p>It&#8217;s difficult to estimate. The Canadian market doesn&#8217;t have the same statistics of the U.S. market on tracking originated premiums and foreign reinsurer participation. But you&#8217;re right, in the interpretation here is that we are providing new capacity to the market. So this capacity we&#8217;re providing obviously provides more opportunities for risk to be placed in other markets.</p><p>That is a great narrative for our broker partners, for insurers to have more access to solutions. So it&#8217;s difficult to say exactly how big that market is. We expect &#8211; usually, we do this kind of a bottoms-up basis that the growth rates for Canadian fronting are likely the high teens to low 20s in the next year. So still significant momentum in that group. But I don&#8217;t have a top-down estimate of that market at this stage.&#8221; <em>&#8212; Q4&#8217;23 earnings</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-10" href="#footnote-anchor-10" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">10</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;David Clare</p><p>Can you talk to me a little bit about Fronting in Canada, maybe the opportunity that we have and the types of risks we&#8217;re navigating?</p><p>Chris Sekine</p><p>Yes, it&#8217;s a great question because there isn&#8217;t necessarily a Fronting market like other lines of business. <strong>In a lot of ways, it&#8217;s &#8211; I feel like we&#8217;ve made the market in some ways</strong>. And the types of risks that we have written are really risks that Trisura does not write directly ourselves. And so the appetite and the capacity comes from our fronting partners.&#8221; <em>&#8212; &#8216;24 investor day</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-11" href="#footnote-anchor-11" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">11</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;David Clare</p><p>How have you been able to scale this Canadian practice and continue to outperform an ROE basis? It&#8217;s been a very strongly growing platform, but one that&#8217;s actually increased its ROEs through that period of time.</p><p>Chris Sekine</p><p>Yes, absolutely. <strong>Our Fronting business has certainly helped us improve our ROEs,</strong> but growth &#8211; profitable growth has really been impactful to that on an overall basis. And that&#8217;s our continued plan for the future is growth, but not just growth for growth sake. It has to be profitable underwriting growth that we target. And that will be our continued formula for outperforming on the ROE side.&#8221; <em>&#8212; &#8216;24 investor day</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-12" href="#footnote-anchor-12" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">12</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;Jaeme Gloyn</p><p>And then last one, shifting to the Canadian Fronting business. It sounds like it&#8217;s a lot of foreign reinsurers and it&#8217;s their demand, and it&#8217;s really like based on their demand, that&#8217;s what kind of premiums you&#8217;re going to be writing. So maybe kind of went through some of the factors that make Canada attractive. But what are some of the factors that could lead to a foreign reinsurer just deciding to turn the taps off one day?</p><p>David Clare</p><p>Yes. I think it&#8217;s a smart question, Jaeme. I mean, the question would be does reinsurance appetite go away for this Canadian business. And we would say 2 things. <strong>One, the scale of this business is still very small in this market.</strong></p><p><strong>And so there&#8217;s a lot of room for these groups to grow. And they want to grow today, right? Many of the partners that we&#8217;re working with are keen to continue to do more. That opportunity, we think, again, is still only scratching the surface for those vehicles</strong>. But the item that could change that is performance, right?</p><p>The performance of these programs, the performance of these partnerships, to the extent they&#8217;re not meeting hurdle rates for us or for those reinsurance partners, that&#8217;s when you&#8217;d start to see a reduction in premium generation. And I would highlight, we look at this a lot in trying to size the market. <strong>The absolute size of these premiums coming in both in the context of these reinsurance portfolio but also in the Canadian market, still quite small today. So we do think there&#8217;s a lot of room to grow.</strong>&#8221; <em>&#8212; &#8216;24 investor day</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-13" href="#footnote-anchor-13" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">13</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>According to Markel filings, State National (the largest US fronting carrier) did ~$3.7bn in GPW in &#8216;23, generating revenue of $156m and $124m of income before taxes (an 80% operating margin). While Markel does not disclose the capital position for the State National business, if we conservatively assume a 7x premiums-to-capital ratio (Trisura runs at ~6x), the business would&#8217;ve required roughly $500m of average capital in &#8216;23. That would equate to a pre-tax ROE of ~25% ($124 of pre-tax income / $506 of equity capital), and ~20% after-tax.</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-14" href="#footnote-anchor-14" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">14</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;And from Trisura&#8217;s perspective, today, that investment income is very, very predictable. Investment-grade bonds today, we know very quickly where they&#8217;re going to produce income in the next 12 months. But fee-based income is also worth highlighting because, from our perspective, the fees that we collect in our Fronting practices and our hybrid Fronting practices, they&#8217;re very predictable and they earn out in a very predictable way. <strong>And so what you have in Trisura, if you translate this on an earnings per share perspective, is if you look at Q1, from our perspective, roughly 2/3 of our earnings per share is coming from components of the book that are predictable and recurring.</strong> And what that means is a lot of our income, therefore, is predictable and should be relied on in a different way than other insurance companies.&#8221; <em>&#8212; &#8216;24 investor day</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-15" href="#footnote-anchor-15" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">15</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;Jaeme Gloyn</p><p>Okay. Great. And with respect to the E&amp;S market on the U.S. side, are there &#8211; given the high grading of the program portfolio at this point, are there particular lines that you&#8217;re more interested in, less interested in? Can you give us a little bit of context around how you&#8217;re viewing the next several months in E&amp;S?</p><p>David Clare</p><p>At a high level, we&#8217;d like to target about a 60% casualty, 40% property mix. If you drill down into that segmentation, <strong>we don&#8217;t love property exposure that has significant catastrophe potential. We really just don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s appropriate for a company of our size, not an entity that&#8217;s focused in prioritizing recurring fee income.</strong> So that is a bit of a result of &#8211; or driving a bit of the result in high grading in these programs. Those two that they took out had a little bit more catastrophe exposure than we thought was appropriate.</p><p>From our perspective, going forward, you&#8217;re going to see us continue to focus on that 60% casualty, 40% property mix. And staying in lines that we think have an appropriate loss ratio experience and volatility experience for an entity of our size and focus.&#8221; <em>&#8212; Q2&#8217;21 earnings</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-16" href="#footnote-anchor-16" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">16</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;David Clare</p><p>What about on the other side of that, when you see a program coming in, into the pipeline or a submission. What&#8217;s a red flag you look at that would kick it out of your consideration process?</p><p>Michael Beasley</p><p>Yes. A lot of it&#8217;s reputation and then you have a lot of &#8211; if it doesn&#8217;t have &#8211; we don&#8217;t think it can attract reinsurance. <strong>If it&#8217;s in a line of business that we don&#8217;t like, such as workers&#8217; comp, long-term liabilities like Med Mal or if it&#8217;s property cat exposed</strong>. We believe this is going to be one of the worst property cat seasons in the history of the insurance industry, and <strong>we&#8217;ve completely transformed our book to be mostly out of property cat</strong>. And the ones that we have, we&#8217;re very well protected.&#8221; <em>&#8212; &#8216;24 investor day</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-17" href="#footnote-anchor-17" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">17</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;We have a very exhaustive intense due diligence packet. So if I get 10 of them in, I'll send -- or 10 submission opportunities in, we'll send out these due diligence packets. And then unfortunately, our hit ratio comes back at about 20%. And then we spend a little bit of time trying to fill in all the gaps&#8230;</p><p>The reason we like to vet so much is because we want to take risk, and we want to be comfortable with the MGAs that we're vetting and that we're doing business with. And in order for us to be comfortable, that's where it takes to the reinsurers comfortable. So where some of our competitors go to the reinsurance market first and do their due diligence afterwards, we do the opposite&#8230;</p><p><strong>And then the nice thing is once you do this and as long as you service your program well and keep the reinsurers happy on the back end, these programs are very sticky. We have not lost any program since we've started to another carrier or anything else.</strong> Some have gone into runoff or poor results, but I would say 90% of our business is very sticky and it's stuck with us.<strong>&#8221; </strong><em>&#8212; <strong>&#8216;</strong>23 investor day</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-18" href="#footnote-anchor-18" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">18</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;David Clare</p><p>We&#8217;ve got a question here on fronting fees. And we&#8217;ve usually talked about fronting fees as sort of averaging kind of 5% to 6% in this platform. One of the questions I get a lot is, there&#8217;s been a lot of new competitors in this space. There&#8217;s been a lot of new entrants. Do you see pressure on that? I think we&#8217;ve had general success in defending those rates of fronting fees. Is that fair?</p><p>Michael Beasley</p><p>Yes. That&#8217;s been part of our back end, like Chris said earlier. Being able to service your clients and being able to keep them happy enables you to continue to charge an appropriate front fee and being able to take risk and do some other things that some of our competitors can&#8217;t. <strong>We&#8217;ve had a couple of competitors try to target a lot of our higher profitable programs, offering much more reduced rates, front fees over what we currently charge and we did not lose a single one.</strong> So I think part of that is a known commodity or a known entity is a lot better than someone that they&#8217;ve never done business with before.</p><p>And moving your business to another paper just over price, most of these guys don&#8217;t want to do that. And I think that would be very shortsighted if they did.&#8221; <em>&#8212; &#8216;23 investor day</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-19" href="#footnote-anchor-19" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">19</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>This chart is outdated (from <a href="https://www.slipcase.com/view/inside-in-full-fronting-companies-insurers-in-brokers-clothes">2021</a>), but shows you how much of an outlier Trisura was in terms of its DWP per program. For example, Clear Blue, which had slightly more DWP in 2021, had far fewer programs (12 vs. 62).</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!HY-K!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F54c01eec-e0d3-49bc-9673-ae8e3cbbfa97_558x391.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!HY-K!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F54c01eec-e0d3-49bc-9673-ae8e3cbbfa97_558x391.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!HY-K!, 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y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-20" href="#footnote-anchor-20" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">20</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;So we have two clients really. It&#8217;s the program administration &#8211; or program administrators in the market, and it&#8217;s the reinsurance community. So the program administrators, we needed to be able to demonstrate access to capacity, a flexibility of licensing, a broadly licensed platform across both E&amp;S and admitted markets and sophistication of interaction. So you need to have good IT systems. You need to have good auditors, good actuarial teams to evaluate and work with these program administrators in running their programs.</p><p>From a Reinsurance perspective, what you need is that premium pipeline to demonstrate to them that you can source those premiums. And one of the differentiators that we have in the U.S. or one of the focuses that we started out with was that we consciously take risk alongside those reinsurers. So we&#8217;ve invested in an actuarial team who evaluates the risk and the performance of these programs. On a very regular basis, and we share those analysis with those Reinsurance partners.</p><p>So that forms the basis of our value add. And again, we think about it as facing two counterparties. It&#8217;s the program administrators, the distributors in the market and it&#8217;s the reinsurers and you have different functions to perform for both of those.&#8221; <em>&#8212; Q2&#8217;21 earnings</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-21" href="#footnote-anchor-21" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">21</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;David Clare</p><p>So maybe once an MGA, once a partner comes on board, can you talk a little bit more about that monitoring process? Because I know that&#8217;s important for us as a company who&#8217;s taking risk but also for reinsurers who use some of these reports.</p><p>Michael Beasley</p><p>Yes, that&#8217;s a big competitive advantage for us on the back side. So we have 2 customers and we have to service the MGA on the front side, and we have to service our reinsurers on the back side. Now the reinsurers want people to be able to monitor the business, understand the business and so forth. So all of our programs now, not so much when we first started out, but we try to have and do business with the most technologically advanced MGAs out there so that we can remote access and remote view into all of our MGA&#8217;s operations. And we do this and we look at underwriting policies every month to make sure they stay in their guidelines.</p><p>On the back end, we went hard into data. So we have provided data feed to every one of our MGAs and they load their monthly data into our data warehouse. Every one of our programs is sliced and diced by metrics that are important to the reinsurers. And we give reinsurers access to this business every month. So with the Trisura program, this is what&#8217;s really unique.</p><p><strong>A reinsurer knows where they stand every month. They don&#8217;t have to go out and audit. And I hear this from a lot of reinsurers as we have several that are on several of our programs, always say, Trisura has the best data.</strong> <strong>We know where we stand all the time on a Trisura program.</strong> And we go out to see the clients, it&#8217;s not to necessarily audit them all the time, it&#8217;s actually get to know them more and find out how to expand the relationship.</p><p>So I think that&#8217;s another competitive advantage and unique.&#8221; <em>&#8212; &#8216;23 investor day</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-22" href="#footnote-anchor-22" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">22</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;Tegus Client</p><p>Let&#8217;s take Swiss Re for instance, how many fronting carriers will they work with? How many MGAs will they partner? I mean, is it unlimited? How does that work?</p><p>President and CEO at Trisura Specialty Insurance Company</p><p>Yes, <strong>some of the smarter reinsurers have gone through the gauntlet and have chosen, say, two to three of the front carriers to work with, and they call them preferred markets. We&#8217;re one of those for Swiss Re</strong>. So Swiss Re, I think, had two preferred markets, us, and Falls Lake, which is owned by James River. Then they did some one-off programs with Subsidy [Sutton?] and Accredited, maybe even National, but they wouldn&#8217;t consider them a preferred market. I think they just had a relationship with the MGA that picked those carriers but that&#8217;s changing.</p><p>I mean I can tell you right now, Swiss Re is out there saying they wrote like a billion or something in program business this year, and they&#8217;re going to cut that back probably. So a lot of these reinsurers that kind of went in naively again, are getting burned and they&#8217;re pulling back out, which is a little bit insane considering we&#8217;re pretty much in a hard market across the industry in just about every line of business. But yes, it really depends on the reinsurers, some will only work with a couple of carriers and then some will work with anybody if they think the program, is a decent program.&#8221; <em>&#8212; Tegus Dec-22</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-23" href="#footnote-anchor-23" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">23</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;Tegus Client</p><p>And you mentioned that on the fronting side and then maybe on the MGA side as well, the market seems to have gotten pretty saturated. Could you go into that a little further and from that sort of how good fronting carriers distinguish themselves. What do you think that means for the industry going forward?</p><p>President and CEO at Trisura Specialty Insurance Company</p><p>Yes. Most of them have distinguished themselves basically by just being able to provide paper and having capital. Just like any other industry, you have good, bad, worst-performing MGAs and books of business. You also have a lot of naive capital also in the space, whether it&#8217;s on the reinsurance side or what they have now on collateralized reinsurers and they&#8217;ll pretty much write anything that doesn&#8217;t have a ton of volatility.</p><p>So, a lot of these new carriers are just basically doing lines of business that aren&#8217;t incredibly volatile, accessing naive capital, putting up a fee and charging anywhere from 3% to 5% for the most part, depending on the line of business and where they&#8217;re located. Some of the better ones like us, we actually run dashboards, do monitoring, oversight, we look and act like a real insurance company, we just outsource our balance sheet but we&#8217;re pretty far down the road compared to several of the others that are in the space.</p><p>Tegus Client</p><p>And I guess about the fees, we think that makes fronting pretty interesting. Are people willing to undercut for the fee structure? Or how do people compete?</p><p>President and CEO at Trisura Specialty Insurance Company</p><p>Well, that&#8217;s interesting. <strong>Most of the companies that aren&#8217;t good on the service side, they beat each other up over front fees and they keep trying to lower the cost of the front fee to try to attract the business to their balance sheet.</strong> We&#8217;ve been fortunate because our service is so strong, we haven&#8217;t lost any programs yet to any competitors, even though several of them have come in one or two points below us to try to move that business. <strong>But I can guarantee of the 24 out there, 20 of them are beating each other up constantly over fees.</strong>&#8221; <em>&#8212;</em> <em>Tegus, Dec-22</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-24" href="#footnote-anchor-24" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">24</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;David Clare</p><p>And I would say we have a pretty firm stance on that fronting fee. There&#8217;s a cost to run this business and that&#8217;s pretty well telegraphed in the market. It&#8217;s no surprise where fronting fees are. And so we haven&#8217;t seen a real change in that.</p><p>Michael Beasley</p><p>The real nice thing is <strong>the more established carriers like now Clear Blue and State National, they drew the line in the sand. And they don&#8217;t do as much as we do for our clients and they won&#8217;t go down.</strong> So people, if they&#8217;re going to leave us, they would more leave for somebody that&#8217;s a known entity than a more lesser known entity. So, so far, our business has been pretty sticky and the front fee has been pretty sticky.&#8221; <em>&#8212; &#8216;23 investor day</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-25" href="#footnote-anchor-25" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">25</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>Note that these ROE and combined ratio figures for Trisura refer only the Specialty segment. US Programs has been subscale and overcapitalized for much of this period, thus I am not showing consolidated figures. </p><p>Further, 20% ROEs is a fair reflection of the run-rate, normalized profitability of the business.</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-26" href="#footnote-anchor-26" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">26</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>Trisura&#8217;s 20% BVPS growth has benefitted from its equity raises, done at a weighted average P/B of 4x. This analysis attempts to back out the impact of the equity raises on BVPS growth. You can see in the adjusted figures, the 7-yr CAGR would have been 15% ex share raises. 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y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-27" href="#footnote-anchor-27" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">27</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;In Canada, you can see we&#8217;ve got a primary insurance practice that spans surety, warranty and corporate insurance lines. And these lines of business, we qualify as niche specialty commercial lines of business. These are the only lines of business that we underwrite. It&#8217;s the only focus that we have. This is not an insurance practice that is spread across a bunch of different focuses. We&#8217;re very clear and very definitive on where we play in the market.&#8221; <em>&#8212; &#8216;24 investor day</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-28" href="#footnote-anchor-28" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">28</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;President and CEO at Trisura Specialty Insurance Company</p><p>I think that's the largest part. I think a big chunk of that, and I haven't quantified this, but you have had tons of capital going to what they call to the insurtech space. But I think you're also going to see a lot of those insurtechs not make it. So that could be $1 billion going out of the front space in the near future here as well if all these insurtechs collapse.</p><p>Tegus Client</p><p>And that's just a result of crappy underwriting?</p><p>President and CEO at Trisura Specialty Insurance Company</p><p>Exactly. I mean this people really came out of the gate and sold people on the fact that we're basically an inefficient industry. And if you can just cut the broker out, you can make an extra 15% to 20% to your bottom line, and they've all realized that now you actually have to be able to underwrite the business.</p><p>And if you look it up, I mean, Lemonade, Root, a lot of these guys, they're Hippo, I mean they're all posting 150% to 200% combined ratios or higher. I mean I think Lemonade came out the other day and said they didn't think they'd make a profit until 2027. I think that will change the space a little bit, and a lot of my competitors are heavily reliant on insure-tech deals that they fronting a lot of those.&#8221; <em>&#8212; Tegus, Dec-22</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-29" href="#footnote-anchor-29" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">29</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;So for instance, right now, this is a perfect example. Commercial auto can take on a bunch of different niches. But in general, the commercial auto space back in between 2010 and 2015, lost traditional insurance companies, hundreds of millions of dollars. They started pulling out of the space and then rates doubled in 2016, &#8216;17, &#8216;18, and now they&#8217;ve almost tripled through the last year.</p><p>What has happened is that a lot of these new carriers have popped up fronting carriers with collateralized reinsurers that saw an opportunity, but they were a little late to the game. They&#8217;ve jumped in now, and these rates are starting to fall backwards again so we&#8217;re seeing a softening again. Right now, we were probably in the last two years at a point where you could actually make money on in commercial auto and I think now that&#8217;s going to change from across the board.</p><p>I think you will still have some programs that make money there, but these new MGAs that lost their paper in mid-2015, 2016 for writing that business are basically back in play now, and they&#8217;re doing the same thing all over again. They&#8217;re pushing the market down. So, it&#8217;s really going to be an issue and that&#8217;s just one example where we&#8217;re already starting to see softening because of new front carriers&#8217; naive capital behind the front carriers and putting bad MGAs back in business. So, it&#8217;s like this industry doesn&#8217;t learn.&#8221; <em>&#8212; Tegus, Dec-22</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-30" href="#footnote-anchor-30" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">30</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;Tegus Client</p><p>When you think across all the MGAs you work with, is there anyone who is &#8211; stands out as being very differentiated or has a lot of staying power or kind of the opposite, other side of the spectrum, less impressive kind of MeToo players?</p><p>President and CEO at Trisura Specialty Insurance Company</p><p>Yes, it&#8217;s hard to quantify. It&#8217;s all over the place. I mean, we work with a lot of what I&#8217;d call the super MGAs. So, the K2s, the Brown and Brown Arrowhead, the Dual Aligns, these are entities that have $1 billion to $4 billion in MGA business with a bunch of different products. And we prefer to grow with them, which MSI is just kind of a mini version, something like &#8211; of somebody like that. So I think it&#8217;s &#8211; I think they&#8217;re off to the races and going in the right direction.</p><p>And then we have others that are kind of in that MSI size but are still privately held. And they might write four or five different programs, of which we probably have one or two with them. But those are the guys we like also, because they&#8217;ve got money behind them.</p><p>They can still focus and invest in technology, and they go into some niche spaces, which is great. We tend to avoid the people that just do one thing and don&#8217;t have any capital behind them.&#8221; <em>&#8212; Tegus, Mar-24</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-31" href="#footnote-anchor-31" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">31</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;Our Canadian fronting business is a little bit different structurally than our U.S. fronting business. Most of our partners in the Canadian business, if not the vast majority are a large, established and rated reinsurers who just don&#8217;t have operations here in Canada.</p><p>So they need a partner here to participate in this market. It&#8217;s a less MGA-driven market in Canada and more a partnership model that exist between us and reinsurers who want to access this Canadian space. <strong>So for the most part, these reinsurers are very large, very significant, often cases are rated. But in the Canadian landscape from a regulatory perspective, you are still getting collateral even from these rated entities.</strong></p><p>So structurally, it&#8217;s a bit different, a bit different drivers of the business in Canada, but a very healthy business and a very profitable one now that we&#8217;ve seen that scale.&#8221; <em>&#8212; q1&#8217;24 earnings</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-32" href="#footnote-anchor-32" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">32</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;If you look at our Surety business, <strong>it&#8217;s been a very competitive space over the last couple of years. That&#8217;s not a space where hard market trends are driving the growth or the profitability that you see in our business</strong>&#8230;From a surety perspective, we talked a little bit about the trends in that market. It is a very competitive space. It&#8217;s a part of the market that&#8217;s very difficult to get into and requires a lot of expertise to navigate.&#8221; <em>&#8212; &#8216;24 investor day</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-33" href="#footnote-anchor-33" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">33</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;<strong>Surety continues to be a very competitive marketplace. I would say that&#8217;s a business line that did not benefit from the hard market trends you see in other parts of the commercial insurance space.</strong> So surety all the way through the last 2 years has been a competitive space where we&#8217;re not benefiting from hard market trends, and that continues. It is a competitive marketplace that we continue to navigate.&#8221; <em>&#8212; q1&#8216;24 earnings</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-34" href="#footnote-anchor-34" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">34</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;I wouldn&#8217;t say we observed those same dynamics [benefit of hardening markets] in Risk Solutions. That&#8217;s a relatively structured group from a pricing perspective and has less impact from the hardening market trends. <strong>So I do want to clarify that that&#8217;s not a space where we&#8217;re claiming to have a lot of benefit of hardening lines</strong>.&#8221; <em>&#8212; q1&#8217;21 earnings</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-35" href="#footnote-anchor-35" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">35</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;So Risk Solutions warranty, this is a relatively structured product. <strong>So again, less movement being driven by those hard market trends, and we continue to see pretty consistent margins, pretty consistent structures in those products.</strong>&#8221; <em>&#8212; q1&#8217;24 earnings</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-36" href="#footnote-anchor-36" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">36</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;From a corporate insurance perspective, this is one that has benefited in recent years from the harder market trends. <strong>But it&#8217;s important to note, our focus is in a niche specialty component of that market. So think about the tail of a hard market driving less upside in hard markets and less downside in soft markets</strong>, you&#8217;ve seen a real expansion in this business, both from a volume and pricing perspective in the last couple of years. We have seen some of that balance recently. And so a lot of what we&#8217;ve talked about in the last probably 18 months of our communication with investors, is that market, we&#8217;re seeing some balance in that corporate insurance space. For us, we still see that as a very attractive space. It&#8217;s a very interesting space for us to grow and one that we think we can continue to do so very profitably.&#8221; <em>&#8212; &#8216;24 investor day</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-37" href="#footnote-anchor-37" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">37</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;Tom MacKinnon</p><p>Question on the exited lines. I imagine they're kind of short tail. Just wondering how long before they would essentially run off here and we'd be back to having reported numbers apart from any investment gains and losses to be reasonably more close to the operating number.</p><p>David Clare</p><p>So Tom, it's important to note, <strong>we don't anticipate a meaningful impact from exited lines in future quarters.</strong> So you shouldn't be thinking about this as something that drives results in future quarters. What we've attempted to do here is set up a prudent reserving approach to reflect the fulsome impact of those lines. So certainly, we are not anticipating movement or meaningful movement in these lines going forward. .</p><p>Now that being said, <strong>I think the duration of these -- this bucket is about 2.6 years, and we would expect about 80% of these claims to be fully paid out in 4 years</strong>. So it's a pretty short portfolio. It's a mix of casualty and property based -- or property lines.&#8221; <em>&#8212; q4&#8217;24 earnings</em></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-38" href="#footnote-anchor-38" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">38</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;One thing we&#8217;ve talked very openly about is that if a program is not meeting profitability hurdles or reaching scale, we&#8217;re at the size level now and maturity level now, that we&#8217;re happy to move away from those. <strong>And so Q3, Q4, Q1 of next year, maybe Q2, we&#8217;re expecting to have a little bit less premium coming through our US Programs model.</strong> With the expectation that that core book of business<em>&#8212;</em>that ongoing book of business that we have<em>&#8212;</em>that will be a better profitability set of business than we&#8217;ve had historically. And so that approach for us, as we think about the future of the business, we think is very healthy. Now from a submissions or pipeline perspective, we&#8217;re seeing a good amount of submissions<em>&#8212;</em>still disproportionately in that E&amp;S space rather than the admitted space. We brought on a few new programs in the latter part of last year, we&#8217;re starting to see those come online through next year. <strong>So at what stage you kind of lap those nonrenewal cycles next year is probably toward the end of next year, in terms of growth of that entity</strong>.&#8221; <em>&#8212;</em> <em>Jan-25 CIBC Conference</em></p></div></div>]]></content:encoded></item><item><title><![CDATA[[$QRHC] Quest Resource Holding Corp]]></title><description><![CDATA[A high-quality "platform" business with inflecting EBITDA growth]]></description><link>https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/p/qrhc-quest-resource-holding-corp</link><guid isPermaLink="false">https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/p/qrhc-quest-resource-holding-corp</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[Ryan Seawell]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Tue, 06 Aug 2024 22:23:57 GMT</pubDate><enclosure url="https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!5X5v!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F66727a83-5656-417d-b907-d08d06a70735_1249x692.png" length="0" type="image/jpeg"/><content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe Quest shares at these levels provide an asymmetric investment opportunity, combining low downside risk with 3x+ upside potential over a ~5 year horizon. I think the business is on the cusp of sustained, ~15-20% organic EBITDA growth, as a result of a ramping in new logo growth combined with high (and increasing) operating leverage. Downside is limited by high recurring revenue (90%+ of revenue is contractually recurring under multi-year contracts), 100%+ historical net revenue retention, very limited cyclicality, and a reasonable entry multiple.</p><h2>Business Overview</h2><p>Quest is a ~$200m market cap &#8220;waste broker&#8221; based in Dallas, TX. It offers waste &amp; recycling solutions for typically large, Fortune 1000 businesses.</p><p>Unlike most waste &amp; recycling providers, however, Quest doesn&#8217;t own any physical assets and doesn&#8217;t do any pick-up/processing of waste &amp; recycling itself. Instead, Quest utilizes a &#8220;vendor network&#8221; of over 3,500+ providers to perform these services. Quest earns a spread between what it charges its customers (who are typically contracted under multi-year agreements) and the rates it pays its &#8220;vendors&#8221; (contracts with its vendors are much more flexible; Quest can essentially re-arrange its vendor base at any point). Thus, Quest is much different than a typical waste provider in that it is &#8220;asset-light&#8221; and operates more like a &#8220;platform&#8221; business. Hence the term, &#8220;waste broker.&#8221;</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!5X5v!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F66727a83-5656-417d-b907-d08d06a70735_1249x692.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!5X5v!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F66727a83-5656-417d-b907-d08d06a70735_1249x692.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!5X5v!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, 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/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!5X5v!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F66727a83-5656-417d-b907-d08d06a70735_1249x692.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" fetchpriority="high"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>As a result of the platform approach, Quest is capable of fully &#8220;managing&#8221; the processing over 100 different types of waste streams. Some of its major waste categories include:</p><ul><li><p>General recyclables: cardboard, plastics, metals, pallets, etc.</p></li><li><p>Automotive waste: used motor oil, used oily water, used antifreeze, used tires (Quest has diverted more than 200m used tires from landfill since inception), paint waste, etc.</p></li><li><p>Food waste: fruits &amp; vegetables, meat &amp; seafood, used cooking oil, grease traps, recalls, etc.</p></li><li><p>Hazardous waste: all flammable liquids &amp; solids, all toxic waste, electronic waste, light bulbs, batteries, compressed gases, etc.</p></li><li><p>Construction waste: concrete, dry wall, etc.</p></li></ul><p>This flexibility and &#8220;know-how&#8221; is a useful fit for the waste &amp; recycling market, as the best solution for a given material will vary from one region to the next. For example, food waste &#8212; depending on where it&#8217;s created &#8212; might be best sent to compost, or to an aerobic digester, made made into animal feed, or there may be no good &#8220;recycling&#8221; option (and thus will be sent to landfill). New avenues for recycling materials continue to proliferate (with <a href="https://www.biocycle.net/connections-food-waste-and-landfill-methane-report-a-giant-step-on-a-long-road/">food waste</a> and <a href="https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/chemicals/our-insights/advanced-recycling-opportunities-for-growth">plastics</a> serving as key emerging opportunities), which benefits Quest&#8217;s offering.</p><p>So why would a Fortune 1000 business elect to work with someone like Quest?  </p><ol><li><p><strong>Breadth of waste streams &amp; geographies served.</strong> As mentioned, Quest manages over 100 different types of waste streams and operates in every US zip code. Therefore, for Quest&#8217;s customers, it can provide a &#8220;one-stop shop&#8221; solution. The alterative would be for a customer to stitch together a program itself, which is certainly doable. But for customers of a certain scale &amp; complexity (think hundreds or thousands of sites, 20+ waste streams, regulatory complexity &amp; environmental risks, ESG &amp; regulatory reporting requirements, etc.), going with a provider like Quest can be a very nice, &#8220;simplifying&#8221; solution. In one case study, Quest reduced a client&#8217;s vendor count from 80 to 1, mentioning that this type of reduction &#8220;is not uncommon.&#8221;</p></li><li><p><strong>Driving diversion from landfill.</strong> A key capability of Quest&#8217;s is its &#8220;know-how&#8221; in diverting waste from landfill &#8212; approximately 70% of material handled by Quest avoids landfill (vs. <a href="https://www.epa.gov/facts-and-figures-about-materials-waste-and-recycling/national-overview-facts-and-figures-materials">~32%</a> nationwide). This is a key consideration for generators that are pursuing zero-landfill and other sustainability initiatives. Diverting waste from landfill can also be an important cost-saving mechanism (provides savings on landfill tipping fees, recovers value from certain recycled materials).  </p></li><li><p><strong>Data &amp; reporting capabilities.</strong> Quest provides a comprehensive reporting solution. Reporting on a customer&#8217;s waste programs and diversion (i.e. what is going where, and how much) is highly important for ESG &amp; regulatory reporting (in addition to being a nice operational tool for clients). The traditional waste majors (e.g. Waste Management, Republic) can do this just fine on the waste they manage internally, but struggle to piece an offering together across a third-party vendor network in a useful way (if they provide it at all). This is a key and increasingly important differentiator for Quest.</p></li><li><p><strong>Superior customer support.</strong> The waste majors (as well as many specialty waste &amp; recycling providers) are notorious for poor customer service (lack of responsiveness to issues, egregious annual price increases, etc.). Quest prides itself on high-quality, superior customer service.</p></li><li><p><strong>Potential cost savings&#8230;</strong></p></li></ol><p>&#8230;Whether brokers like Quest can produce cost savings relative to an incumbent solution is a more nuanced subject. The short answer is that they can, but it depends on the situation&#8230;</p><p>For example, if a potential customer has a waste major as the incumbent provider, and has not been actively managing its waste (e.g. letting price increases go unchecked, not recycling/diverting waste streams that would reduce costs, etc.), then there would be a prime opportunity to reduce costs. If a potential customer has been &#8220;on top of it,&#8221; the opportunity to reduce costs is more marginal. Similarly, if a potential customer is mostly a generator of solid waste (and does not deal with many different waste streams or with much complexity), and if that customer is based in a region where someone like WM has a strong presence, it would be very unlikely that a player like Quest would be a better option than WM.  </p><p>My impression is that more often than not, Quest is actually not the low-cost option. However, Quest certainly can be in the right situation, and I believe this gap has been narrowing over the years (as cost of landfill has risen, as recycling options have increased, etc.). Quest can also offer internal savings for a client, removing much of the overhead of managing its waste procurement.  </p><p>This quote from the Mar-22 Roth Conference seems to encapsulate management&#8217;s official position on the subject:</p><blockquote><p>The perception is being greener is more expensive. It&#8217;s just not true. It&#8217;s truly not true&#8230;Depending on how well managed the company was before relative to that cost there&#8217;s a huge variance in what we can save. When we find somebody that has viewed their waste streams as totally an afterthought, the savings could be 20-30%. Then you find somebody that&#8217;s managed it pretty tightly but they&#8217;re just trying to enhance it (and can we do that for them), then savings will be smaller. But we have found that being green is not more expensive, we can be more cost effective.</p></blockquote><p>According to a Jul-20 Tegus transcript with the Buffalo Wild Wings Director of Purchasing, Quest was the low-cost option in an RFP process consisting of Quest, WM, Republic, and four other brokers.</p><p>Notably, as Quest scales, its ability to compete on price improves. The larger its book of business in a region, the greater the amount of concessions it can generate from its vendors, which it can then pass on to prospective customers.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-1" href="#footnote-1" target="_self">1</a> Quest can also earn better rates on recycled materials (e.g. scrap metals) the larger the amount of supply it controls in a region.</p><p><em>Customers / End Markets</em></p><p>Quest targets large waste producers with high waste &#8220;complexity.&#8221; The greater the number of waste streams, the more regulated the waste, the greater the number of sites served, the better the fit generally speaking. Quest&#8217;s typical client profile is a generator of 5+ waste streams, and its average deal size is in the 7-figures.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!bz_D!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1d301933-d173-43d9-b76a-3bb454dfe58c_1261x705.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!bz_D!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1d301933-d173-43d9-b76a-3bb454dfe58c_1261x705.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!bz_D!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1d301933-d173-43d9-b76a-3bb454dfe58c_1261x705.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!bz_D!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1d301933-d173-43d9-b76a-3bb454dfe58c_1261x705.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!bz_D!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1d301933-d173-43d9-b76a-3bb454dfe58c_1261x705.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!bz_D!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1d301933-d173-43d9-b76a-3bb454dfe58c_1261x705.png" width="1261" height="705" 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1d301933-d173-43d9-b76a-3bb454dfe58c_1261x705.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!bz_D!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1d301933-d173-43d9-b76a-3bb454dfe58c_1261x705.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!bz_D!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1d301933-d173-43d9-b76a-3bb454dfe58c_1261x705.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!bz_D!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1d301933-d173-43d9-b76a-3bb454dfe58c_1261x705.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Quest&#8217;s customer base has grown significantly in size and quality over the past few years. It has also diversified into new end markets. Just a few years ago, Quest generated much of its revenue from big-box retail and automotive services. Today, Quest is diversified across retail (big-box &amp; specialty), automotive services, grocery, industrial &amp; manufacturing, multi-family residential, transportation &amp; logistics, restaurants, and food distribution.</p><div><hr></div><p><em>For additional background on Quest, I highly recommend the following reading:</em></p><ul><li><p><em>Kira Ambrose&#8217;s profile of Quest (<a href="/__u/efficiencies.substack.com/p/qrhc-part-1-a-nano-cap-sustainability">Part 1</a> and <a href="/__u/efficiencies.substack.com/p/qrhc-part-2-mispriced-disruption#footnote-anchor-1-37454581">Part 2</a>) from 2021</em></p></li><li><p><em>&#8220;Porge&#8217;s&#8221; profile of Quest (published on <a href="https://www.valueinvestorsclub.com/idea/QUEST_RESOURCE_HOLDING_CORP/2944200802">VIC</a>) from Jun-23</em></p></li></ul><div><hr></div><h2>Key Investment Merits</h2><p><em>Unique, Leading Player in Space</em></p><p>I believe Quest is a top 2 player in the broker space (with Keter Environmental Services being its #1 competitor) and one of maybe ~4 players with the ability to compete toe-to-toe for Fortune 1000 clients. Quest has a national platform, serves a huge breadth of waste streams, offers best-in-class data &amp; reporting capabilities, and has a pricing advantage over just about every other broker. It has a blue-chip customer base and I believe a strong reputation in the industry. Moreover, the industry has consolidated meaningfully in recent years, with major players such as Waste Harmonics (acquired) and Rubicon (imploding) no longer serving as competitive threats.</p><p><em>Scale Advantages</em></p><p>Quest derives substantial advantages from its scale.</p><p>As mentioned above, perhaps most importantly, as the business grows in size so do its cost advantages. Essentially, as Quest grows its customer base, it enhances its leverage with vendors, thereby generating more favorable pricing. Quest is then able to pass these savings on to prospective customers. The more of a waste stream it manages, and the greater the density it achieves within a region, the greater its cost competitiveness. Quest, and all brokers, therefore have different levels of strength depending on the region and waste stream managed.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-2" href="#footnote-2" target="_self">2</a></p><p>Another key benefit of Quest&#8217;s scale is that it affords Quest the ability to invest in its technology platform and data &amp; reporting capabilities. These capabilities separate Quest from other players in terms of efficiency and the strength of its offering in a meaningful way (more on its technology platform later&#8230;).</p><p>I believe Quest&#8217;s only competitor with meaningfully greater scale (other than Rubicon) is Keter, which might be roughly ~3x the size of Quest.</p><p><em>Strong Business Momentum</em></p><p>Since 2020, Quest has 3x&#8217;d revenue (~2x organic), and ~4x&#8217;d EBITDA. Yet for 2024, Quest might do more in new logo revenue than it&#8217;s done in the 3 prior years combined.</p><p>These wins have yet to materialize in the P&amp;L (will start hitting in Q2&#8217;24), but I believe by the time they are fully reflected, Quest will be run-rating in excess of 15% organic growth.</p><p>Even if we were to assume that this is represents &#8220;peak growth&#8221; over a five-year window, and that growth steps down from there (~15% would actually be in line with the organic growth sustained over 2020-2023), I believe the shares still have ~3x potential given how efficient Quest is at converting incremental gross profit to EBITDA.</p><p>I think it&#8217;s likely the business will generate 15-20%+ growth in EBITDA for a sustained period (more on this later&#8230;).</p><p><em>Highly Attractive Financial Model</em></p><p>Quest benefits from a &#8220;platform-esque&#8221; financial model. Which is to stay, the company produces a very high return on capital (ROEs are tracking towards 100%+), is highly cash generative, and benefits from significant operating leverage. The business can scale rapidly, requiring little capital to grow.</p><p><em>Very Stable Business</em></p><p>90%+ of revenue is contractually recurring under mostly multi-year contracts (avg contract length is ~3 years). Net revenue retention is &#8220;obscenely high,&#8221; and I believe has averaged in excess of 100% in recent years (and there continues to be significant headroom to further penetrate existing accounts).</p><p>It is painful for customers to switch providers. Quest deals with large, bureaucratic organizations where the typical RFP process is complex and lasts around 6 months (but can last upwards of 12 months).</p><p>Quest&#8217;s revenue model is also tied to a customer&#8217;s waste volumes and thus the business experiences virtually no cyclicality. Inflation from vendors is passed-through to its customers and commodity pricing (on &#8220;recyclables&#8221; like carboard, metals, etc.) is similarly passed-through (due to the structure of their customer agreements).  </p><h2>Growth </h2><p><em>Historical Growth</em></p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!x_lC!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F70a67e6e-3d51-4378-8063-33e619ea9450_1291x1591.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!x_lC!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F70a67e6e-3d51-4378-8063-33e619ea9450_1291x1591.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!x_lC!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F70a67e6e-3d51-4378-8063-33e619ea9450_1291x1591.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!x_lC!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F70a67e6e-3d51-4378-8063-33e619ea9450_1291x1591.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!x_lC!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F70a67e6e-3d51-4378-8063-33e619ea9450_1291x1591.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!x_lC!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F70a67e6e-3d51-4378-8063-33e619ea9450_1291x1591.png" width="518" height="638.3718048024787" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/70a67e6e-3d51-4378-8063-33e619ea9450_1291x1591.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1591,&quot;width&quot;:1291,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:518,&quot;bytes&quot;:74302,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:null,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!x_lC!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F70a67e6e-3d51-4378-8063-33e619ea9450_1291x1591.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!x_lC!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F70a67e6e-3d51-4378-8063-33e619ea9450_1291x1591.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!x_lC!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F70a67e6e-3d51-4378-8063-33e619ea9450_1291x1591.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!x_lC!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F70a67e6e-3d51-4378-8063-33e619ea9450_1291x1591.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Quest&#8217;s historical revenue chart has an odd-looking &#8220;U&#8221; shape, and includes a steep revenue decline over the 2016-2020 period.  </p><p>So what happened from 2016-2020? After Ray Hatch joined as CEO in 2016, the business began purposefully churning low margin/unattractive revenue. The company actually cut revenue approximately in half, shedding a total of $85m. Impressively, over this 2016-2020 period, gross profit actually grew by 32% from $14m to $19m.  </p><p>Starting in 2020, after having &#8220;stabilized&#8221; the business, the company returned to revenue growth in a major way. From 2020-2023, revenue almost 3x&#8217;d, from $99m to $288m (I estimate ~2x of which was organic).</p><p><em>Organic Growth</em></p><p>Quest&#8217;s organic growth in recent years has been clouded by acquisitions (Quest closed on six small-ish acquisitions over the Oct-20 to Feb-22 period).</p><p>However management has discussed organic growth performance on earnings calls. Management stated that organic growth represented ~60% of its ~51% gross profit growth in 2021 (or ~31% organic growth)<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-3" href="#footnote-3" target="_self">3</a> and ~33% of its 70% gross profit growth in 2022 (or ~23% organic growth in 2022)<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-4" href="#footnote-4" target="_self">4</a>. Adding in 3% organic growth for 2023, this would imply that the company grew organically at around a ~18% CAGR over the 2020-2023 period.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-5" href="#footnote-5" target="_self">5</a></p><p><em>Net Revenue Retention</em></p><p>While the company has never provided official retention metrics, I believe net dollar retention has averaged in excess of 105% over the last few years. A couple of recent quotes from management outline a range somewhere in ballpark of 105-110%.</p><p>From Q3&#8217;23 earnings:</p><blockquote><p><em>George Melas-Kyriazi (MKH Management Company)</em></p><p>Ray, you talked about doubling over the last 3 years and about 1/3 of that coming from existing customers. So I did some very simple math that <strong>suggests that you're sort of growing with your existing base by roughly 10% per year</strong>. But it seems a little high to me and I wonder if that's about how -- where the numbers fall around 10% in terms of organic growth.</p><p><em>[&#8230;]</em></p><p><em>Ray Hatch</em></p><p>Yes. It does seem [high], <strong>but it's actually what this team has been doing</strong>. And that's growth in gross profit dollars, not revenue necessarily. And so we talked about the procurement initiatives about continuing to leverage and optimize the waste services and create more value from the commodities. And the team has been doing that. So they've been doing that for many years. So yes, George, <strong>those numbers are accurate</strong> and we're really thankful to have those long-term relationships with these great clients and we're able to do that.</p></blockquote><p>From Q1&#8217;24 earnings:</p><blockquote><p><em>Aaron Michael Spychalla (Craig-Hallum)</em></p><p>Could you maybe expand a little bit on the kind of land and expand strategy with the existing clients? Maybe touch on some of the services that you're seeing there? And then any way to quantify whether dollars or kind of percentage, just kind of the potential for growth that you see from that?</p><p><em>Ray Hatch</em></p><p>[&#8230;] The land and expand story really isn't any different than it has been, it's just continued to grow and accelerate [&#8230;]</p><p>As far as the percentage goes, I think -- have we talked about a percentage in the past of growth [in] <strong>the mid-single-digits. As a percentage, we anticipate at least that on a go-forward basis</strong>. It could be more. We're hopeful. But the runway looks pretty good for us Aaron on that expansion with those existing clients.</p></blockquote><p>Management has also stated previously that the business has had just one major churn event &#8212; a large customer in the grocery space, whose procurement consultant indiscriminately (according to management) canceled all indirect spend contracts. Quest later lost one additional material customer (that it acquired through the RWS acquisition) in Q3&#8217;23 timeframe (this customer was acquired and waste procurement was brought in-house). These are the only major churn events (that were not purposeful on Quest&#8217;s part) that I&#8217;m aware of in the company&#8217;s recent history. According to management, as of Q1&#8217;24 Quest&#8217;s top 20 clients have been with the company for an average of 9 years.</p><p>I believe the company continues to be positioned strongly to upsell revenue to its customer base, as a result of an expanding product portfolio (boosted by recent M&amp;A) and significant recent new logo additions. Furthermore, in a couple of significant ways, the company is focusing more on &#8220;upsell&#8221; than it ever has (new teams focused on it<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-6" href="#footnote-6" target="_self">6</a>, tying compensation to it<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-7" href="#footnote-7" target="_self">7</a>). Essentially at the start of an average year, there is a level of organic growth baked into the P&amp;L before any new logos are won, which is quite a nice feature.</p><p><em>Near-Term Growth</em></p><p>As mentioned, for YTD 2024, the company has shown impressive new logo generation. It seems Quest, for 2024, may actually generate in new logo dollars more than it has in the prior three years combined.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-8" href="#footnote-8" target="_self">8</a></p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!oGeQ!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F65f9494a-cf35-4815-b05b-30c67ef6d4ce_1950x1054.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!oGeQ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F65f9494a-cf35-4815-b05b-30c67ef6d4ce_1950x1054.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!oGeQ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F65f9494a-cf35-4815-b05b-30c67ef6d4ce_1950x1054.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!oGeQ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F65f9494a-cf35-4815-b05b-30c67ef6d4ce_1950x1054.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!oGeQ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F65f9494a-cf35-4815-b05b-30c67ef6d4ce_1950x1054.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!oGeQ!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F65f9494a-cf35-4815-b05b-30c67ef6d4ce_1950x1054.png" width="1456" height="787" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/65f9494a-cf35-4815-b05b-30c67ef6d4ce_1950x1054.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:787,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:163735,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:null,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!oGeQ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F65f9494a-cf35-4815-b05b-30c67ef6d4ce_1950x1054.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!oGeQ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F65f9494a-cf35-4815-b05b-30c67ef6d4ce_1950x1054.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!oGeQ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F65f9494a-cf35-4815-b05b-30c67ef6d4ce_1950x1054.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!oGeQ!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F65f9494a-cf35-4815-b05b-30c67ef6d4ce_1950x1054.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>New named wins for YTD 2024 I estimate are in the ballpark of ~$27-40m, which should be fully reflected in Quest&#8217;s financials by ~Q4&#8217;24. My midpoint estimate is ~$33m for YTD 2024, compared to a ~$39m midpoint estimate for 2020-2023 combined (granted, these are highly unofficial figures &#8212; see footnote 8 &#8212; but still instructive in my opinion). See midpoint estimates by year below.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!gicE!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6a93f358-d189-4892-a89e-832688c3dea6_2219x2150.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!gicE!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6a93f358-d189-4892-a89e-832688c3dea6_2219x2150.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!gicE!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6a93f358-d189-4892-a89e-832688c3dea6_2219x2150.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!gicE!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6a93f358-d189-4892-a89e-832688c3dea6_2219x2150.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!gicE!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6a93f358-d189-4892-a89e-832688c3dea6_2219x2150.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!gicE!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6a93f358-d189-4892-a89e-832688c3dea6_2219x2150.png" width="452" height="438.0302197802198" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/6a93f358-d189-4892-a89e-832688c3dea6_2219x2150.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1411,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:452,&quot;bytes&quot;:62575,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:null,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!gicE!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6a93f358-d189-4892-a89e-832688c3dea6_2219x2150.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!gicE!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6a93f358-d189-4892-a89e-832688c3dea6_2219x2150.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!gicE!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6a93f358-d189-4892-a89e-832688c3dea6_2219x2150.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!gicE!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6a93f358-d189-4892-a89e-832688c3dea6_2219x2150.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Now, if we add to these wins the expected upsell to Quest&#8217;s existing base (of say 5% or so), we get to a range of 13-20% of &#8220;locked-in&#8221; growth. If we further assume that this revenue will come in at a 17% gross margin, and that 50% of that gross profit will convert to EBITDA, I estimate an EBITDA uplift of $3-5m that is &#8220;locked-in&#8221; based on these announced wins + upsell. That would put Quest&#8217;s multiple at around ~10-11x on a run rate basis exiting 2024.  </p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Kcuj!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F01d45f42-a305-44c5-b9b2-3e7a8985d04b_1369x1069.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Kcuj!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F01d45f42-a305-44c5-b9b2-3e7a8985d04b_1369x1069.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Kcuj!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F01d45f42-a305-44c5-b9b2-3e7a8985d04b_1369x1069.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Kcuj!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F01d45f42-a305-44c5-b9b2-3e7a8985d04b_1369x1069.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Kcuj!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F01d45f42-a305-44c5-b9b2-3e7a8985d04b_1369x1069.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Kcuj!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F01d45f42-a305-44c5-b9b2-3e7a8985d04b_1369x1069.png" width="564" height="440.40613586559533" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/01d45f42-a305-44c5-b9b2-3e7a8985d04b_1369x1069.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1069,&quot;width&quot;:1369,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:564,&quot;bytes&quot;:128189,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:null,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Kcuj!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F01d45f42-a305-44c5-b9b2-3e7a8985d04b_1369x1069.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Kcuj!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F01d45f42-a305-44c5-b9b2-3e7a8985d04b_1369x1069.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Kcuj!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F01d45f42-a305-44c5-b9b2-3e7a8985d04b_1369x1069.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Kcuj!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F01d45f42-a305-44c5-b9b2-3e7a8985d04b_1369x1069.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>These figures exclude any additional wins that could take place over the remainder of 2024, and exclude, for 2024 YTD, (1) two smaller wins, (2) expanding a smaller existing customer to 7-digits in revenue, and (3) &#8220;renewed and expanded services with two of our largest customers.&#8221; All together, this perhaps adds a bit of extra conservatism to the figures above.</p><p><em>Pipeline Commentary</em></p><p>Importantly, while the company has experienced notable dry spells in new logo wins in the past (see 2022), I think Quest is better positioned today to maintain momentum. Commentary from management suggests that the pipeline, even after Quest&#8217;s string of 2024 wins, is in good shape (<strong>and</strong> <strong>actually better than a year ago</strong>). So much so, management has opted to increase its investment in S&amp;M in 2024 vs. plan.</p><p>From Q1&#8217;24 earnings:</p><blockquote><p>I will also note that our pipeline of opportunities with new and existing clients has grown and momentum appears to be durable, which bodes well for the next few years&#8230;</p><p>In addition to closing several deals in recent months, <strong>we've continued to see a noticeable uptick in not only number, but also the size of opportunities in our pipeline</strong>. Given the success we are having with new client wins, we plan to accelerate our investment in organic growth initiatives, including investments in marketing and sales during 2024, reinvesting some of the profit gains generated in the business&#8230;</p><p>As far as the pipeline goes, it's <strong>significantly larger today than it was a year ago</strong>. And I think the quality goes two ways. So I said <strong>larger in size and in quality</strong>. There's two aspects of quality that I think are important. One is really the type of customer itself, is this the kind of customer that's aligned with our goals and our targets&#8230;Two is how close are they and how valuable are they as a client themselves in size.</p></blockquote><p>I don&#8217;t believe Ray has made a comment quite like this ever before, and, in my opinion, would not say this if he didn&#8217;t genuinely feel this way. While he certainly strikes an optimistic tone of late on calls, he hasn&#8217;t always to this degree, and his optimism has built over time (which has been backed up by performance).</p><p>I believe a continued secular shift towards brokers in the market, combined with the increasing strength of Quest&#8217;s offering, is leading to strength in the pipeline. In one recent conversation with a smaller Quest competitor, the company indicated that &#8220;in just the last couple weeks&#8221; a 1,400 gas station chain (wanting to implement within the month), a beauty parlor chain (300 locations, ~$1.5m spend), a very large chain of cosmetic stores and a Fortune 500 beauty products company had all come to market. Management of this business claimed that these groups were &#8220;sold on brokers&#8221; and that &#8220;they are not looking at the Waste Managements and Republics of the world.&#8221; Though just one datapoint, I believe it&#8217;s indicative of the broader improvement in the brokers&#8217; value proposition over time. </p><p><em>Other Notes</em></p><ul><li><p>I believe management is anticipating growth in-line with the ranges discussed above. This comment below from the Jun-24 IDEAS Conference was by no means official, but does give an indication of the level of growth expected:</p></li></ul><blockquote><p>We do have a 20% CAGR [in gross profit dollars from 2016-2023], <strong>and actually it&#8217;s going to be higher, probably, in the near-future.</strong></p></blockquote><ul><li><p>One of Quest&#8217;s main rivals, Rubicon, is in the process of <a href="https://www.wastedive.com/news/rubicon-ceo-rodoni-resign-ahmed-spac/720267/">imploding</a>, which may present a &#8220;jump ball&#8221; on some portion of Rubicon&#8217;s ~$700m of revenue (rumors are that spooked customers have been coming to market already). Much of this revenue may not be attractive for Quest (its margin profile may be insufficient), but at least some portion of it likely is. Quest could be in an advantaged position to secure Rubicon revenue, having hired in Jul-23 a Co-Founder and former &#8220;Chief Advisor&#8221; to Rubicon in Perry Moss, who is now Quest&#8217;s Chief Revenue Officer. </p></li></ul><h2>Margins</h2><p>The second major piece to the thesis (alongside healthy revenue growth), is a belief that EBITDA margins will continue to ramp in a material way.</p><p><em>Historical Gross Margins</em></p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!wSey!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8d66d6fc-b408-45b6-bfef-5641b0dc55b2_2506x2613.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!wSey!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8d66d6fc-b408-45b6-bfef-5641b0dc55b2_2506x2613.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!wSey!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8d66d6fc-b408-45b6-bfef-5641b0dc55b2_2506x2613.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!wSey!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8d66d6fc-b408-45b6-bfef-5641b0dc55b2_2506x2613.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!wSey!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8d66d6fc-b408-45b6-bfef-5641b0dc55b2_2506x2613.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!wSey!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8d66d6fc-b408-45b6-bfef-5641b0dc55b2_2506x2613.png" width="518" height="540.0576923076923" 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8d66d6fc-b408-45b6-bfef-5641b0dc55b2_2506x2613.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!wSey!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8d66d6fc-b408-45b6-bfef-5641b0dc55b2_2506x2613.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!wSey!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8d66d6fc-b408-45b6-bfef-5641b0dc55b2_2506x2613.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!wSey!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8d66d6fc-b408-45b6-bfef-5641b0dc55b2_2506x2613.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>GMs rose significantly over the 2016-2019 period as the business shed low margin revenue. GMs peaked at 19.3% in 2020 before a string of acquisitions + uptick in new business (which generally comes in at a lower margin, initially), reduced margins to a trough of around 17.2%.</p><p>The company has since worked margins back up into the 19% range. Working GMs up is an exercise in working vendors down on price (through more volume over time, providing better optimization/more density on routes, etc.). Quest is highly confident in its ability to work GMs up over time through this process, which it has done consistently for many years.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-9" href="#footnote-9" target="_self">9</a></p><p><em>Are Gross Margin Levels Sustainable?</em></p><p>In the past, the company repeatedly guided to &#8220;low to mid teens&#8221; GMs, which is a worrisome thought, given current GM levels of ~19%. So are recent GM levels sustainable? I believe so&#8230;</p><p>On the company&#8217;s current book of business, revenue is generally locked in for 3-5 years on the customer side, and vendors (whose pricing will generally not go up in a material way) are plugged in to service those contracts. In fact, on Quest&#8217;s current book of business, if anything, margins will likely go up over time as Quest finds savings in the vendor network.</p><p>New business, however, could be brought in at lower margins, providing a headwind to GMs. But in this case, we are still achieving growth in GP dollars, which is ultimately what we should care about (and if new business is brought in at lower GMs, the company&#8217;s goal will be to work GMs up over time, per above). The company has shifted its guidance, in fact, around gross margins from &#8220;low to mid teens&#8221; (they stopped issuing this guidance towards the end of 2019) to a focus on &#8220;double-digit&#8221; growth in GP dollars, which they continue to cite repeatedly on calls.</p><p>In terms of factors like inflation and gyrations in commodity prices, as mentioned before, these do not have a material impact on GMs, which is a very nice aspect of the model.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-10" href="#footnote-10" target="_self">10</a></p><p><em>Historical SG&amp;A and EBITDA Margins</em></p><p>EBITDA margins increased rapidly over the 2016-2021 period, from negative -10% to 38% (of GP). Margins have plateaued a bit since 2021, hovering in the 37-39% range over the last few years.</p><div class="image-gallery-embed" data-attrs="{&quot;gallery&quot;:{&quot;images&quot;:[{&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/09606579-7b06-4724-8e6c-b9bc2c4c2d97_2506x2613.png&quot;},{&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/e7289d4c-3e9d-45c0-b831-93c1bf82c7aa_2506x2613.png&quot;}],&quot;caption&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;alt&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;staticGalleryImage&quot;:{&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/089ca569-ff6a-45a9-a642-aa27ffcc27b7_1456x720.png&quot;}},&quot;isEditorNode&quot;:true}"></div><p>Operating leverage is thus not a new phenomenon for Quest, and in fact, they&#8217;ve demonstrated a considerable amount of it. From the analysis below, you can see that they&#8217;ve actually converted ~47% of incremental gross profit generated since 2018 into EBITDA.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!d4rA!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2c44ecde-ae64-48a1-8916-453c9f0bbadf_1950x692.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!d4rA!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2c44ecde-ae64-48a1-8916-453c9f0bbadf_1950x692.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!d4rA!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2c44ecde-ae64-48a1-8916-453c9f0bbadf_1950x692.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!d4rA!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2c44ecde-ae64-48a1-8916-453c9f0bbadf_1950x692.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!d4rA!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2c44ecde-ae64-48a1-8916-453c9f0bbadf_1950x692.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!d4rA!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2c44ecde-ae64-48a1-8916-453c9f0bbadf_1950x692.png" width="1456" height="517" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/2c44ecde-ae64-48a1-8916-453c9f0bbadf_1950x692.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:517,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:82628,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:null,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!d4rA!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2c44ecde-ae64-48a1-8916-453c9f0bbadf_1950x692.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!d4rA!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2c44ecde-ae64-48a1-8916-453c9f0bbadf_1950x692.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!d4rA!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2c44ecde-ae64-48a1-8916-453c9f0bbadf_1950x692.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!d4rA!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2c44ecde-ae64-48a1-8916-453c9f0bbadf_1950x692.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>This is in line with the guidance management has provided on calls for many years, of converting roughly 50% of incremental gross profit to EBITDA.</p><p><em>Opportunity for Further Margin Expansion </em></p><p>While it would seem like this level of operating leverage would form some sort of upper limit, I actually believe the company is likely on the cusp of a further uplift to operating leverage.</p><p>This is a result of recent investments Quest has made in its technology platform.  These investments have been in the making for a couple years<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-11" href="#footnote-11" target="_self">11</a>, but are just now rolling out and beginning to impact operations. They include:</p><ul><li><p>Procurement tool. This tool allows Quest staff to look across its entire vendor footprint for qualification and pricing data. This tool will reduce the time needed to find optimal vendor configuration (e.g. for quoting new business) &#8220;from days to minutes,&#8221; in addition to providing increased accuracy in quoting.</p></li><li><p>Vendor onboarding. Launched a self-service vendor portal, which &#8220;automates&#8221; vendor onboarding and enhances data accuracy.</p></li><li><p>&#8220;Zero-touch&#8221; invoicing. This, I believe, will be by far the most important enhancement to roll-out. Essentially Quest is in the process of automating the vendor invoicing process, which was formerly highly manual. Bills from vendors will be &#8220;scraped&#8221;, &#8220;digitized&#8221;/added to the system, matched against the PO while errors like over-charging (if any) will be detected (and singled out for manual processing, if necessary), and payments will be made &#8212; all &#8220;automatically.&#8221; This sort of automation was not available in the recent past, but given the rise of RPA-like solutions, it is today (and we&#8217;ve seen tech like it among Quest&#8217;s broker peers). Company management has stated that these enhancements should have a &#8220;profound&#8221; impact on the business. And if we look at the company&#8217;s employee base, there is a huge skew to simple administrative personnel (as of Dec-23, out of 195 total FTEs, 108 were &#8220;administrative and customer services&#8221; employees, 74 were &#8220;accounting and finance&#8221; employees, and only 13 were &#8220;sales and marketing&#8221; employees).</p></li></ul><p>From the Jun-24 IDEAS Conference, describing the &#8220;zero-touch&#8221; initiative:</p><blockquote><p>The other is internal, which is less sexy sounding, but it&#8217;s all about driving zero-touch cost efficiencies. <strong>The SG&amp;A to do that is where the vast majorities of our costs are.</strong> So the better we&#8217;re able to do that, the better we&#8217;re able to drive EBITDA margins. And we&#8217;re able to create more and more leverage with scale.</p><p>&#8230;our platform is scalable, and we have strong excitement about that. As we&#8217;ve improved our technology internally, our ability to automate functions and <strong>achieve higher levels of zero-touch on invoices, that&#8217;s where our G&amp;A is primarily spent.</strong> And that&#8217;s what drives our EBITDA margins. In the past, unfortunately, as we&#8217;ve added business, in my opinion we&#8217;ve chased it with costs. We haven&#8217;t created that leverage that we&#8217;ve needed to in years past. Now we&#8217;ve started to do it and it&#8217;s an exciting thing.</p><p>&#8230;<strong>We handle a lot of invoices, and as Ray said, we&#8217;ve tended to throw bodies at those rather than process and discipline.</strong> We&#8217;ve spent a lot of time over the last year, one, investing in automation and some AI enhancements that allow us to do the zero touch, but also it&#8217;s on the process side as well, because the systems are only as good as the data there. So we&#8217;ve done a lot of work on cleaning up the data. So what we&#8217;re doing is building a platform that allows us to take the invoices, and more importantly, we talk about invoices but, that invoice may have 100, 200 lines of services on it. Our system is built to capture that line level detail, because, one, it drives the data as well. But that&#8217;s a lot of touches when you&#8217;re going through an invoice and pulling out that line-level detail. So our system will ingest the invoices, digitize them and then build a process to automate the matching of that against the PO, allow the payment to go through, all zero-touch. And then there&#8217;s some stuff on the SO side as well. So where we&#8217;re at right now, we brought our first vendor live in Q1. Our first run through the system we only achieved about 25% zero-touch. Today, we&#8217;re at 80% zero-touch with that vendor. And that&#8217;s through about 4-5 months [of working with them]. And every time we bring a new vendor on, we&#8217;re a little better the first time they get on. So right now, we&#8217;ve got about half of our invoice volume running through the system, and by end of Q3, early Q4, we should have the majority of our volume running through the system. Very excited about, not only on the efficiency side, and the flow-through, but it just creates so much more discipline, better data on the back-end as well. </p></blockquote><p>Per above, Quest likely saw &lt;10% of the total expected benefit from the zero-touch initiative in its latest quarter of Q1&#8216;24. From the sound of it, by Q1&#8216;25 Quest might be seeing something like 75%+ of the benefit. Whatever the case may be, it seems likely this will provide a substantial uplift to operating leverage over the next 1-2 years.</p><p>A not-so-trivial additional benefit to this platform will be how this could position Quest on M&amp;A. The closer Quest gets to fully automating its operational processes, the more it would seem they could strip out of a target&#8217;s G&amp;A post acquisition (if that target lacked much automation). This would allow Quest to reduce its multiple paid in a very meaningful way post integration.</p><h2>Valuation</h2><p><em>Multiples </em></p><p>Off of 2023 figures (adjusted for the RWS integration impact), Quest trades for ~14-15x EBITDA. Off of Q1&#8217;24 annualized figures, it trades for ~13x. And as discussed above, if we give them credit for &#8220;locked-in&#8221; named wins + upsell, it trades for ~10-11x estimated &#8220;run rate&#8221; end-of-year 2024 figures.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!i_UE!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fef59674b-01e3-4738-a1fa-f362e228e66e_1950x932.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!i_UE!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fef59674b-01e3-4738-a1fa-f362e228e66e_1950x932.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!i_UE!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fef59674b-01e3-4738-a1fa-f362e228e66e_1950x932.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!i_UE!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fef59674b-01e3-4738-a1fa-f362e228e66e_1950x932.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!i_UE!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fef59674b-01e3-4738-a1fa-f362e228e66e_1950x932.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!i_UE!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fef59674b-01e3-4738-a1fa-f362e228e66e_1950x932.png" width="1456" height="696" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/ef59674b-01e3-4738-a1fa-f362e228e66e_1950x932.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:696,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:150157,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:null,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!i_UE!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fef59674b-01e3-4738-a1fa-f362e228e66e_1950x932.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!i_UE!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fef59674b-01e3-4738-a1fa-f362e228e66e_1950x932.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!i_UE!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fef59674b-01e3-4738-a1fa-f362e228e66e_1950x932.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!i_UE!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fef59674b-01e3-4738-a1fa-f362e228e66e_1950x932.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p><em>Comps Analysis</em></p><p>There are no true public comps for Quest (I&#8217;m excluding Rubicon, which is a highly flawed business). In the absence of true comps, the waste majors and the 3PLs seem like instructive public peers to examine.  </p><p>The solid waste majors trade at around a 16x forward EBITDA multiple. Of course the waste majors spend a great deal on capex, which Quest does not. Examining 2023 EV/EBITDA less Capex, the majors trade for an astronomical ~32x. While these are clearly very stable businesses that benefit from certain impenetrable moats and way more scale than Quest, their ROE profiles are not necessarily world-beating, and their organic growth profiles are perhaps just a touch higher the GDP type growth. Quest benefits from a similar type of stability, but much higher ROEs and much stronger growth prospects. While Quest&#8217;s &#8220;moat&#8221; is not on par with the majors at this point, I think it&#8217;s still formidable. It seems to me the solid waste majors are benefitting from a huge premium due to their stability and trade at &#8220;unnatural&#8221; levels as a result. So it&#8217;s unclear how much we can learn from how they trade. You can see from the chart below, the waste majors&#8217; forward EBITDA multiple has almost doubled since ~2012.</p><p>The 3PLs are a nice business &amp; financial model comp for Quest. They are brokers of a different sort &#8212; for the cargo space, connecting shippers with cargo carriers. They benefit from a flywheel to scale similar to that of Quest&#8217;s &#8212; the bigger a book of shipping business a 3PL represents, the more attractive they are for truckers looking to fill capacity. The 3PLs generate very strong ROEs, and have very similar margin profiles to Quest (median GM of 14%, median EBITDA margin of 6%). Growth has slowed more recently for this group, but they were double-digit organic growers for many years. The group trades at around a 17x forward multiple today, and over the past 20 years have traded in the ~12-15x range.  </p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!mt6F!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4ed1a1e6-86dc-49f7-8540-29b7e536ac80_2700x1035.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!mt6F!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4ed1a1e6-86dc-49f7-8540-29b7e536ac80_2700x1035.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!mt6F!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4ed1a1e6-86dc-49f7-8540-29b7e536ac80_2700x1035.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!mt6F!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4ed1a1e6-86dc-49f7-8540-29b7e536ac80_2700x1035.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!mt6F!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4ed1a1e6-86dc-49f7-8540-29b7e536ac80_2700x1035.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!mt6F!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4ed1a1e6-86dc-49f7-8540-29b7e536ac80_2700x1035.png" width="1456" height="558" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/4ed1a1e6-86dc-49f7-8540-29b7e536ac80_2700x1035.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:558,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:334256,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:null,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!mt6F!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4ed1a1e6-86dc-49f7-8540-29b7e536ac80_2700x1035.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!mt6F!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4ed1a1e6-86dc-49f7-8540-29b7e536ac80_2700x1035.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!mt6F!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4ed1a1e6-86dc-49f7-8540-29b7e536ac80_2700x1035.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!mt6F!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F4ed1a1e6-86dc-49f7-8540-29b7e536ac80_2700x1035.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Waste Majors &#8212; EV/NTM EBITDA over time</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!iSop!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Feda99ac0-226e-40d7-84ab-573c344aa08e_2400x1240.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!iSop!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Feda99ac0-226e-40d7-84ab-573c344aa08e_2400x1240.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!iSop!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Feda99ac0-226e-40d7-84ab-573c344aa08e_2400x1240.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!iSop!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Feda99ac0-226e-40d7-84ab-573c344aa08e_2400x1240.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!iSop!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Feda99ac0-226e-40d7-84ab-573c344aa08e_2400x1240.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!iSop!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Feda99ac0-226e-40d7-84ab-573c344aa08e_2400x1240.png" width="1456" height="752" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/eda99ac0-226e-40d7-84ab-573c344aa08e_2400x1240.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:752,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:446316,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:null,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!iSop!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Feda99ac0-226e-40d7-84ab-573c344aa08e_2400x1240.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!iSop!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Feda99ac0-226e-40d7-84ab-573c344aa08e_2400x1240.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!iSop!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Feda99ac0-226e-40d7-84ab-573c344aa08e_2400x1240.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!iSop!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Feda99ac0-226e-40d7-84ab-573c344aa08e_2400x1240.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>3PLs &#8212; EV/NTM EBITDA over time</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!l7nk!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcc6f9958-d468-4dc3-8146-fe0877c05f9d_2400x1240.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!l7nk!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcc6f9958-d468-4dc3-8146-fe0877c05f9d_2400x1240.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!l7nk!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcc6f9958-d468-4dc3-8146-fe0877c05f9d_2400x1240.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!l7nk!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcc6f9958-d468-4dc3-8146-fe0877c05f9d_2400x1240.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!l7nk!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcc6f9958-d468-4dc3-8146-fe0877c05f9d_2400x1240.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!l7nk!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcc6f9958-d468-4dc3-8146-fe0877c05f9d_2400x1240.png" width="1456" height="752" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/cc6f9958-d468-4dc3-8146-fe0877c05f9d_2400x1240.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:752,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:591586,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:null,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!l7nk!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcc6f9958-d468-4dc3-8146-fe0877c05f9d_2400x1240.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!l7nk!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcc6f9958-d468-4dc3-8146-fe0877c05f9d_2400x1240.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!l7nk!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcc6f9958-d468-4dc3-8146-fe0877c05f9d_2400x1240.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!l7nk!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcc6f9958-d468-4dc3-8146-fe0877c05f9d_2400x1240.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p><em>M&amp;A Comps</em></p><p>Based on precedent M&amp;A comps, a range for a business like Quest would seem to be in the ~12-15x range. </p><ul><li><p>I believe Waste Harmonics sold in the mid-teens range in Dec-19 (doing ~100 revenue / ~10m EBITDA at the time).  </p></li><li><p>I believe Waste Harmonics sold again in the ~14-15x range in Jun-23 (EBITDA was multiple times larger at this point)</p></li><li><p>RWS/Instream sold in the ~12-13x range pre-synergy in Dec-21, per Quest disclosures</p></li><li><p>I believe New Market Waste sold to Waste Harmonics in the ~10-13x range in Jan-23. New Market Waste was about a quarter the size of Quest at the time, I believe.</p></li></ul><p><em>Simple Model &amp; Returns</em></p><p>So what kind of returns should we expect from here?  </p><p>In putting together a simple forward model, I assume for a &#8220;base case&#8221; the following:</p><ol><li><p>Growth peaks at 16% in 2025, before tapering down to 10% in 2029 (implies around ~$55m of incremental revenue is added per year)</p></li><li><p>50% of incremental GP converts to EBITDA </p></li><li><p>12.5x exit multiple</p></li></ol><p>Growth of 16% assumes essentially the midpoint of the &#8220;locked-in&#8221; growth analysis, giving them no credit for additional wins in 2024, in theory. In terms of operating leverage, we assume a 50% level (of incremental GP converting to EBITDA) which is in line with historical results. This, in theory, gives them no credit for any impact from their technology investments. A 12.5x exit multiple seems on the conservative side for a business like Quest&#8217;s.  </p><p>The resulting EBITDA growth profile of a mid-teens CAGR through 2029, combined with the business&#8217; strong cash generation, produces a 3.5x+ MOI and a ~30% IRR over 5 years.  </p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!8c0f!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd58d2dab-f758-4ef9-84ef-b2e1c4f4de4d_1950x2034.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!8c0f!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd58d2dab-f758-4ef9-84ef-b2e1c4f4de4d_1950x2034.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!8c0f!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd58d2dab-f758-4ef9-84ef-b2e1c4f4de4d_1950x2034.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!8c0f!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd58d2dab-f758-4ef9-84ef-b2e1c4f4de4d_1950x2034.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!8c0f!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd58d2dab-f758-4ef9-84ef-b2e1c4f4de4d_1950x2034.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!8c0f!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd58d2dab-f758-4ef9-84ef-b2e1c4f4de4d_1950x2034.png" width="1456" height="1519" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/d58d2dab-f758-4ef9-84ef-b2e1c4f4de4d_1950x2034.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1519,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:223751,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:null,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!8c0f!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd58d2dab-f758-4ef9-84ef-b2e1c4f4de4d_1950x2034.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!8c0f!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd58d2dab-f758-4ef9-84ef-b2e1c4f4de4d_1950x2034.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!8c0f!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd58d2dab-f758-4ef9-84ef-b2e1c4f4de4d_1950x2034.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!8c0f!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd58d2dab-f758-4ef9-84ef-b2e1c4f4de4d_1950x2034.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>From this &#8220;base&#8221; level, I believe there is certainly upside potential. I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s a stretch that organic growth could peak somewhere higher than 16%. Nor do I think it a stretch if we assume operating leverage comes in well above 50% for some reasonably sustained period, or that Quest might trade for more of a teen-ish multiple.</p><p>To see what an &#8220;upside&#8221; case could look like, I assume the following: </p><ol><li><p>Growth peaks at 18% in 2025, before tapering down to 12% in 2029 (implies around ~$65m of incremental revenue is added per year)</p></li><li><p>60% of incremental GP converts to EBITDA</p></li><li><p>14x exit multiple</p></li></ol><p>This results in a ~5x MOI and a 35%+ IRR over 5 years.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!pbVW!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9a556d69-bb1e-40d0-95f2-ae0161760fc9_1950x2034.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!pbVW!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9a556d69-bb1e-40d0-95f2-ae0161760fc9_1950x2034.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!pbVW!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9a556d69-bb1e-40d0-95f2-ae0161760fc9_1950x2034.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!pbVW!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9a556d69-bb1e-40d0-95f2-ae0161760fc9_1950x2034.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!pbVW!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9a556d69-bb1e-40d0-95f2-ae0161760fc9_1950x2034.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!pbVW!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9a556d69-bb1e-40d0-95f2-ae0161760fc9_1950x2034.png" width="1456" height="1519" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/9a556d69-bb1e-40d0-95f2-ae0161760fc9_1950x2034.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1519,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:224927,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:null,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!pbVW!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9a556d69-bb1e-40d0-95f2-ae0161760fc9_1950x2034.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!pbVW!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9a556d69-bb1e-40d0-95f2-ae0161760fc9_1950x2034.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!pbVW!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9a556d69-bb1e-40d0-95f2-ae0161760fc9_1950x2034.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!pbVW!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9a556d69-bb1e-40d0-95f2-ae0161760fc9_1950x2034.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Note this &#8220;upside&#8221; case assumes no acquisitions, and I would expect the company to execute on more than one over the next 5 years &#8212; and to pay at least reasonably attractive prices &#8212; which adds further upside.</p><p>In a &#8220;downside&#8221; scenario of only ~10% growth, ~40% operating leverage, and an 11x multiple at exit, Quest still produces a 2x+ and a ~18% IRR over 5 years.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NOhL!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F913fc3af-753e-4193-90dc-9350c93f8b22_1950x2034.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NOhL!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F913fc3af-753e-4193-90dc-9350c93f8b22_1950x2034.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NOhL!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F913fc3af-753e-4193-90dc-9350c93f8b22_1950x2034.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NOhL!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F913fc3af-753e-4193-90dc-9350c93f8b22_1950x2034.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NOhL!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F913fc3af-753e-4193-90dc-9350c93f8b22_1950x2034.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NOhL!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F913fc3af-753e-4193-90dc-9350c93f8b22_1950x2034.png" width="1456" height="1519" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/913fc3af-753e-4193-90dc-9350c93f8b22_1950x2034.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:1519,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:220608,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:null,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NOhL!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F913fc3af-753e-4193-90dc-9350c93f8b22_1950x2034.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NOhL!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F913fc3af-753e-4193-90dc-9350c93f8b22_1950x2034.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NOhL!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F913fc3af-753e-4193-90dc-9350c93f8b22_1950x2034.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!NOhL!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F913fc3af-753e-4193-90dc-9350c93f8b22_1950x2034.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p><em>What Might the Market be Missing?</em> </p><p>Quest&#8217;s shares are trading in the ~$8-9 range, up ~2x over the past 5 years. Over the past 3 years, the stock has traded in a band between $4 and $10, but has generally trended from the ~$6 level to the ~$8.50 level. </p><p>Today Quest trades for ~15x &#8220;reported&#8221; LTM EBITDA &#8212; not exactly a cheap multiple at face value, and it could certainly be the case that Quest is, in fact, properly or even overvalued. Nonetheless, below are some factors that may be leading to its &#8220;under-valuation:&#8221;</p><ul><li><p>Micro cap. Quest is a sub $200m market cap business with limited analyst coverage (Roth, Craig-Hallum, HC Wainwright)</p></li><li><p>Not a well-known or easily understood niche. It&#8217;s a unique company/model within the environmental services sector, without any scaled public comps other than Rubicon, which has melted down since a 2022 SPAC </p></li><li><p>Doesn&#8217;t screen particularly well:</p><ul><li><p>Appears to be a very low margin business. It&#8217;s a gross/net revenue type of business, and on a gross revenue basis, margins are not attractive at around a ~6% EBITDA margin. On a &#8220;net&#8221; revenue basis, however, margins are a highly attractive 35%+.</p></li><li><p>ROE appears to be &lt;10% based on reported figures, but this misleading. ROE, correctly calculated, is 50%+ (and climbing quickly). There is a legacy goodwill balance that resulted from Quest&#8217;s transition to a public company, which muddies the SE line. To assess Quest&#8217;s true ROE, this balance should be &#8220;backed out&#8221; of SE.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-12" href="#footnote-12" target="_self">12</a></p></li><li><p>Growth has been inconsistent. Revenue was cut in half over 2016-2020, then 3x&#8217;d over 2 yrs from 2020-2022 (but this period was clouded by M&amp;A), then did not show any growth in 2023.</p></li><li><p>Leverage appears meaningful. Quest is showing a ~4.1x gross leverage ratio on LTM &#8220;reported&#8221; EBITDA. However, I believe the company is on the verge of pushing leverage below 3x on a run rate basis exiting 2024</p></li><li><p>Valuation doesn&#8217;t scream bargain, per above</p></li></ul></li><li><p>Confusing RWS adjustments &amp; impact on margins. EBITDA has been weighed down over 2022-2023 by $2-3m annually due to complications arising from the RWS acquisition integration. While the company detailed these issues on calls, they did not adjust for them formally in their financial disclosures. These issues were resolved in the Q4&#8217;23/Q1&#8217;24 timeframe, and should no longer be a drag on performance.</p></li></ul><h2>Management Assessment &amp; Ownership</h2><p><em>Management Assessment</em></p><p>Ray Hatch took over as CEO in 2016. Prior to Quest, he was an EVP/SVP for 6 years at Oakleaf, the original 800-lb gorilla in the broker space, which sold to WM in 2011. Ray has spent a total of ~25 years in and around the space (including many years in food distribution) in mostly sales and operations roles.</p><p>Since taking over, it&#8217;s hard to argue much with the track record: </p><ul><li><p>Got out of low margin/unattractive accounts. From 2016-2020, Quest reduced its revenue by 46% (from $183m to $99m). Over that period, gross profit increased by 32% (from $14.4m to $19.0m) and EBITDA grew from -$1.5m to $4.5m. This transition was carried out with little cash &amp; margin for error. Today, Quest operates with much higher margins than public peer Rubicon (margins in the ~7% range), and I believe higher margins than virtually all of its broker peers, including Keter.</p></li><li><p>Unlocked organic growth. Quest began targeting the right customers. The company focused on prospects with complex &amp; regulated waste profiles. They brought in higher quality sales leadership and accelerated spend on S&amp;M once it was clear their value proposition was resonating with customers. In just YTD 2024, the company has won more large new logos than it did in the prior 2.5 years combined.</p></li><li><p>Diversified into different industry sectors. Historically Quest had been focused almost entirely on big box retailers &amp; automotive services. Today, Quest has significant presence in retail, automotive services, industrial/manufacturing, food service &amp; distribution, and multi-family residential. </p></li><li><p>Intelligent M&amp;A strategy. Quest has made 6 acquisitions since 2020 at seemingly highly attractive multiples (acquiring a combined ~$10.3m of post-synergy EBITDA for a total of $68.1m, or a 6.6x multiple). Furthermore, these acquisitions were almost entirely funded by debt. Not only has M&amp;A driven attractive financial returns for Quest, but it has considerably improved the business: (1) adding greater scale/buying power, (2) reducing customer concentration dramatically, (3) establishing a stronger vendor base in certain key waste verticals, (4) establishing new &#8220;product lines&#8221; (e.g. scrap metals, pallet recycling) that could be resold across its customer base, and (5) providing entry into key new verticals (such as multi-family residential through Green Remedies).</p></li><li><p>Focused on customer service &amp; success. I believe the management team has placed a clear emphasis on customer satisfaction, which has paid off in the form of very high retention and a strong referenceable base on clients. </p></li></ul><p>Ray seems to &#8220;get&#8221; what good long-term stewardship looks like. From Q1&#8217;21 earnings:</p><blockquote><p>During the downturn, we worked with our customers prioritizing their service needs, helping them to adjust to react to sudden changes in demand. <strong>It is straightforward, treat your customers right and they will remember and reward you.</strong> For example, during the downturn, many customers were generating lower volumes of waste or were forced to close locations. We found ways to flex their service levels so they were not paying for services they didn&#8217;t need. In other cases, where customers had increased volumes, we were able to help them manage their customer levels more efficiently and stay within budget constraints. We did the right thing during the downturn, and as a result, created stronger customer relationships. In turn, these customers are rewarding us with more business.</p></blockquote><p>He also strikes me as a straight-shooter, does not tend to over-promise, and is willing to address faults/areas for improvement.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-13" href="#footnote-13" target="_self">13</a><a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-14" href="#footnote-14" target="_self">14</a></p><ul><li><p>In 2019, he guided to a 4-6% EBITDA margin goal over the following 3-5 years.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-15" href="#footnote-15" target="_self">15</a>  Quest&#8217;s EBITDA margin has been 6%+ since 2021.</p></li><li><p>He repeatedly guided to a gross margin of &#8220;low to mid teens&#8221;.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-16" href="#footnote-16" target="_self">16</a>  He stopped doing so in 2019. Gross margins have been 17%+ since 2019.</p></li><li><p>He has repeatedly stated that in the ballpark of 50% of incremental GP should convert to EBITDA. Since 2018, 47% of incremental GP has converted to EBITDA. While performance has been essentially on-target, he has mentioned disappointment in not being able to convert more.</p></li></ul><p><em>Acquisition Track Record</em></p><p>In the beginning of 2020, Quest established a dedicated M&amp;A effort, hiring a resource to lead corporate development. Since then, they&#8217;ve made 6 acquisitions representing ~68mm of EV. These deals were done at a 6.6x weighted avg EBITDA pro forma multiple, an attractive use of capital (particularly in light of having financed most of it with leverage).</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!D86I!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1edce803-9e74-470c-93b9-70df02101f38_3408x884.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!D86I!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1edce803-9e74-470c-93b9-70df02101f38_3408x884.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!D86I!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1edce803-9e74-470c-93b9-70df02101f38_3408x884.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!D86I!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1edce803-9e74-470c-93b9-70df02101f38_3408x884.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!D86I!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1edce803-9e74-470c-93b9-70df02101f38_3408x884.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!D86I!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1edce803-9e74-470c-93b9-70df02101f38_3408x884.png" width="1456" height="378" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/1edce803-9e74-470c-93b9-70df02101f38_3408x884.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:378,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:354217,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:null,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!D86I!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1edce803-9e74-470c-93b9-70df02101f38_3408x884.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!D86I!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1edce803-9e74-470c-93b9-70df02101f38_3408x884.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!D86I!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1edce803-9e74-470c-93b9-70df02101f38_3408x884.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!D86I!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1edce803-9e74-470c-93b9-70df02101f38_3408x884.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Management has been focused on &#8220;slam-dunk&#8221; opportunities, seeking both an attractive financial return as well as a strong strategic fit.  </p><p>From Q1&#8217;22 earnings:</p><blockquote><p>To illustrate these benefits, I'm going to give you a few examples of a fully developed service program that RWS and InStream [ have ] built. We believe these programs will be highly leverageable in terms of expanding our service offering with our existing clients. They also give us greater purchasing power for vendors, increased value from waste streams and enhanced value proposition for potential clients.</p><p>My first example is with recycling pallets. RWS has built an impressive offering with a large network of vendors to refurbish our recycled pallets. We're introducing the service to existing clients across our end markets. There's a lot of interest, and we've already added pallet service to an existing Quest client, which when fully integrated, should add $1 million in incremental annual revenue.</p><p>Moving on to another example. InStream has built a significant focus around metal recycling for both ferrous and nonferrous metals. By adding InStream, we've expanded the variety of waste streams that we can recycle. And we've expanded the number of metal recycling vendors by 10x. The greater scale from incremental volumes and larger vendor base gives us opportunities for reduced costs.</p><p>Another good example is cardboard. RWS already had a sufficient volume to create direct relationships with paper mills who are the end user of this commodity. With their added volumes and direct relationships, we can garner higher value for the cardboard that we recycle. We've also added several plastic recycling vendors to our network through RWS. A lot of the recyclers are complaining because they can't get enough plastic. RWS has a good network that we're tapping into to recycle, increased volumes of plastics have better economics.</p><p>I will also add that there is strategic value from those acquisitions and attracting new clients. With greater scale and expertise from RWS and InStream, we've enhanced our ability to respond to opportunities that were previously not a good fit for our capabilities.</p></blockquote><p>All of Quest&#8217;s acquisitions, according to management, have met expectations. The RWS integration was mishandled to a degree, but the business itself seems to be performing (the churned customer notwithstanding) and I believe if given the option, they&#8217;d acquire the business again.  </p><p><em>Ownership</em></p><p>The largest owner is Dan Friedberg of Hampstead Park, who is Chairman. Ray is a ~5% owner. Combined, insiders own ~25% of the business. Ray&#8217;s stake, at about ~$9mm at today&#8217;s prices, is certainly a meaningful number. </p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!nKc1!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F81722b97-c722-4006-bf5c-915c56184423_3530x1860.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!nKc1!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F81722b97-c722-4006-bf5c-915c56184423_3530x1860.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!nKc1!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F81722b97-c722-4006-bf5c-915c56184423_3530x1860.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!nKc1!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F81722b97-c722-4006-bf5c-915c56184423_3530x1860.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!nKc1!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F81722b97-c722-4006-bf5c-915c56184423_3530x1860.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!nKc1!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F81722b97-c722-4006-bf5c-915c56184423_3530x1860.png" width="1456" height="767" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/81722b97-c722-4006-bf5c-915c56184423_3530x1860.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:767,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:117937,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:null,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!nKc1!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F81722b97-c722-4006-bf5c-915c56184423_3530x1860.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!nKc1!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F81722b97-c722-4006-bf5c-915c56184423_3530x1860.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!nKc1!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F81722b97-c722-4006-bf5c-915c56184423_3530x1860.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!nKc1!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F81722b97-c722-4006-bf5c-915c56184423_3530x1860.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><h2>Market Overview</h2><p><em>Total Addressable Market</em></p><p>Though Quest has long since stopped providing TAM figures, this analysis below is taken from a 2019 Quest investor presentation. </p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!L1Zi!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F526a5eaa-4100-419c-a29b-d937472b8f62_624x299.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!L1Zi!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F526a5eaa-4100-419c-a29b-d937472b8f62_624x299.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!L1Zi!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F526a5eaa-4100-419c-a29b-d937472b8f62_624x299.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!L1Zi!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F526a5eaa-4100-419c-a29b-d937472b8f62_624x299.png" width="702" height="336.375" 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/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!L1Zi!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F526a5eaa-4100-419c-a29b-d937472b8f62_624x299.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p>The analysis would suggest that based on current figures, Quest would be about 8% penetrated into its core market (which is $3.3bn in size, according to the analysis). If you added in Rubicon ($700m; granted this business may be coming back to market), Keter (similar size to Rubicon), and everyone else (say $1bn), that gets you into the range of $2.5-3bn. This would suggest that brokers are very heavily penetrated into their core TAM.</p><p>When asked about this analysis recently, Quest management stated that they believed their TAM was, in fact, much higher than the $3.3bn figure presented in 2019. For one, this analysis excludes mid-market customers, where we&#8217;ve seen other brokers have very material success. For example, within an industry like industrial, many more than just the top 50-100 waste producers are prospects for a group like Quest (the analysis above only counts the top 50-100). Management would tell you that the industrial vertical alone represents well over $1bn in TAM. Additionally, across virtually all verticals (for example logistics, which is not included in this analysis), any very large waste producer is also a prime prospect. Thus, the analysis above has excluded a very meaningful number of addressable end markets.</p><p>I would estimate Quest&#8217;s total TAM is in the vicinity of $6-10bn, and that brokers are therefore more in the range of ~30-50% penetrated. If we exclude Rubicon, brokers could be as low as ~20% penetrated.</p><p><em>Competitive Landscape</em></p><p>Keter Environmental Services (backed by TPG Growth)</p><ul><li><p>Top player in the space by EBITDA; I estimate roughly 3x Quest&#8217;s size </p></li><li><p>Acquired Waste Harmonics in Jun-23, a broker that was significantly larger than Keter, for a mid-teens multiple</p></li><li><p>Historically focused on malls, was largest provider to REIT industry; focused on growing presence in food processing, restaurants, manufacturing/industrials</p></li><li><p>Strong reputation in market, though some might characterize as &#8220;tech-enabled&#8221; solid waste mgmt. (i.e. not as strong on diversion/specialty waste streams, mostly a focus on traditional trash &amp; basic recycling; developed an in-house bin sensor technology)</p></li><li><p>GMs likely below Quest due to greater solid waste focus</p></li><li><p>Waste Harmonics claimed 99% client retention &amp; a 25% &#8220;compound growth rate&#8221; in a Nov-20 Authority Mag <a href="https://medium.com/authority-magazine/michael-hess-of-waste-harmonics-5-ways-to-create-a-wow-customer-experience-1fa635214a02">interview</a></p></li><li><p>Waste Harmonics acquired New Market in Jan-23 (a large 2nd tier player, ~$70mm rev, <a href="https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2021/11/05/middle-market-leaders-new-market-waste-solutions.html">20% CAGR from 2018-2020</a>) for ~10x</p></li><li><p>Founded in 2011; TPG Growth acquired in Nov-21</p></li></ul><p>Northstar Recycling (backed by Ridgemont Equity Partners)</p><ul><li><p>I estimate a similar size to Quest</p></li><li><p>Focus on light manufacturing, distribution, warehousing</p></li><li><p>Customer include: GoodYear, Folgers, United Technologies, TempurPedic, Land O&#8217;Lakes, Kraft Heinz, Smucker&#8217;s, Ashley Furniture, US Foods</p></li><li><p>Founded 2011; Ridgemont made investment in Oct-21</p></li></ul><p>Recycle Track Systems</p><ul><li><p>Similar focus as Quest: restaurants, retail, grocery, auto repair; also stadiums/campuses, office buildings</p></li><li><p>In-house bin sensor technology (Pello)</p></li><li><p>Citigroup&#8217;s Impact Fund led a $35mm Series C funding in Jun-21</p></li></ul><p>Other competitors:</p><p>Rubicon (public: RBTC)</p><ul><li><p>~$700m in rev in &#8216;23</p></li><li><p>M.O. was going after low margin (though very large) customers (WalMart, Amazon, Starbucks of world); poor gross margin profile (~7% range)</p></li><li><p>Invested heavily in an uber-esque technology platform for haulers that has struggled generating traction</p></li></ul><p>Roadrunner (backed by General Atlantic)</p><ul><li><p>More of an SMB, multi-family focus</p></li><li><p>Technology focus: smart routes/on-demand collection; monitoring of bin levels using sensors/AI (own their own tech through acquisition of Compology)</p></li><li><p>Founded in 2014; Raised $70mm in Series D funding from General Atlantic in Jan-22</p></li></ul><p><em>M&amp;A Opportunity</em></p><p>Quest closed six acquisitions in a ~1.5 year span between Oct-20 and Feb-22. For the last 2.5 years, however, Quest hasn&#8217;t made an acquisition.</p><p>While it has been a dry spell, and the number of sizable targets has dwindled given continued consolidation in the space, there should be opportunity for M&amp;A going forward. In fact, with the number of top groups consolidating (Rubicon was an active acquirer, now likely out of the picture; Waste Harmonics was as well, now combined with Keter), and with the roll-up opportunity less ripe for PE, I think conditions for M&amp;A have improved slightly of late. In any given process, Quest will be up against the likes of Keter, RTS and Northstar. Northstar itself, though, will likely be up for sale at some point in the not too distant future (Ridgemont Equity acquired in Oct-21, ~3 years ago).  </p><p>As mentioned above, I also believe Quest should be in a strong position to extract synergies in an acquisition due to the increasingly automated nature of its operations. This will position them better than ever to compete on acquisitions, especially relative to a standalone PE buyer.</p><p>Recycle Track Systems CEO Greg Lettieri told <a href="https://www.wastedive.com/news/rts-lettieri-elytus-waste-recycling-broker/616852/">WasteDive</a> in Jan-22 he estimated that there were ~250 active waste brokers in the US. I think the number of viable targets (i.e. targets Quest would actually want to own) is likely in the 30-50 range, which still presents opportunity over time. Ray has said on calls that there are more targets than Quest could ever work through near-term and that the team continues to find sizable groups that had formerly been completely unknown to them.</p><h2>Key Risks</h2><p><em>New Logo Growth Stalls</em></p><p>Sustained new logo generation would be a relatively new development for Quest; they have never quite strung wins together consistently in the past.  </p><p>Furthermore, in order to achieve teens-level growth, because of Quest&#8217;s much larger scale today, the business will need to add in the ballpark of ~$55mm in new annual revenue. That&#8217;s not a level they&#8217;ve hit in the past. In 2021-2023 Quest added around ~$38m, ~$44m, and ~$4m of organic sales, respectively. That&#8217;s a 3-year average of ~$30m, about half the bogey needed.  </p><p>New organic revenue should easily eclipse that number over the NTM, and be in the $50m range. But can Quest sustain those levels? </p><p>Below are reasons for optimism:</p><ul><li><p>Quest&#8217;s pipeline seems to be in a very healthy place, better than one year ago (before they proceeded to put up record new sales numbers), if you believe management</p></li><li><p>Quest has never been better positioned to secure new logos: (1) the business has a more complete solution &amp; more pricing power than it ever has, (2) it has grown its referenceable base of clients substantially, while securing initial toeholds in many new, attractive end markets (two in just the last two quarters<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-17" href="#footnote-17" target="_self">17</a>), (3) the broker value proposition continues to strengthen due to helpful secular tailwinds (sustainability/regulatory pressures + increasing recycling options/investment + increasing cost competitiveness of recycling with landfill)</p></li><li><p>Quest has more and better sales resources than ever</p></li><li><p>Quest&#8217;s scale increases its potential upsell dollars in absolute terms. For example, if they can maintain a 105% net retention, they&#8217;d be adding ~$15m of new sales from existing customers alone. At 110%, Quest would be adding in the range of $30m.</p></li></ul><p>I&#8217;m optimistic that Quest can at least match its trailing 4-year average new sales (if we include 2024, this would be in the $35m range). Doing this would produce a ~10% revenue CAGR, which still results in satisfactory returns. I think more likely, Quest achieves somewhat higher levels of growth that are more in line with my base case figures.</p><p><em>Operating Leverage Fails to Materialize (or is Competed Away)</em></p><p>Given the track record of operating leverage, and that Quest seems to be on the cusp of a material boost in this area, I don&#8217;t see this as a major near-term risk. Though it is worth monitoring, and it may be possible that gains arising from these technology enhancements are competed away. Nothing seems to necessarily prevent the other large brokers from benefitting from similar types of investment. In such a scenario, however, the cost savings would pass on to end customers, which would make the brokers relatively more attractive in the marketplace, and could lead to more volume.</p><p><em>Competition</em></p><p>I don&#8217;t see the competitive landscape changing dramatically.</p><p>I believe the threat of new entrants is low. A key to being a credible broker is the buying power that results from representing a large book of business. Breadth of waste streams served is also important. A new broker will find it very challenging to achieve these things, and in turn, not many new successful brokers have emerged of late. Those who have grown the quickest (e.g. Keter, Quest) have done so through M&amp;A. And an aggressive roll-up strategy would be very difficult to achieve at this point given the number of quality targets that have been taken out.</p><p>According to Quest management, they do not come up against many of their broker peers in competitive situations. However, it does seem that many sales processes are decided by RFP, and that Quest is competing for, in many cases, high-profile Fortune 100 type businesses that should be highly sought after. Thus, I would expect that Quest does run into broker peers fairly often, but I would not characterize the level of competition as &#8220;fierce.&#8221;</p><p>Another clear threat are the traditional waste majors, who are viable alternatives. The majors offer &#8220;National Accounts&#8221; programs, which are in effect an internal &#8220;broker&#8221; offering. Oakleaf, the first very large broker in the space ($500m+ of revenue, I believe), actually formed WM&#8217;s national accounts division after its acquisition by WM in 2011. Majors, however, struggle with (1) reporting, (2) creating bespoke solutions for complex waste situations that requires significant landfill diversion (WM &amp; Republic recycle &lt;20% of materials handled) and third-party vendor coordination, (3) customer service, and (4) competition on price in geographies where they have a weak presence. </p><p><em>Customer Concentration</em></p><p>Two customers represented 29% of revenue in 2023, up from 24% in 2022 (but down from 38% in 2021). While this is not a dealbreaker for me, it does ratchet up the discomfort. I believe this percentage should fall over time, however, and could be pushed closer to 20% in a couple years if new logo growth pans out.</p><p><em>Leverage</em></p><p>Quest&#8217;s leverage profile is not insignificant, yet it does not worry me. The business currently carries ~$72m of debt that generated interest expense of $7.8m in &#8216;23 (before non-cash interest such as amortization of debt discount, etc.). Quest&#8217;s resulting leverage ratio (debt/EBITDA) is ~3.5x and its interest &#8220;coverage&#8221; ratio (EBITDA/interest expense) is ~2.6x.  </p><p>I believe the leverage ratio is trending towards &lt;3x over the next 12 months. Further, the business is highly recurring, provides a mission-critical service, has almost no capex needs, and experiences virtually no cyclicality.</p><p>I believe Quest will refinance its term loan around the end of the year which will reduce their interest rate/expense substantially. A ~300 bps spread seems doable for their type of credit profile, which would equate to a blended interest rate of ~8-8.5% at today&#8217;s SOFR and total interest expense of closer to $6m vs. $8m today. This will increase their interest &#8220;coverage&#8221; ratio from ~2.6x to ~3.5x, providing more breathing room.</p><p>Today, Quest pays a whopping ~12% interest on its term loan (SOFR + 5.5-7.5%), the result of putting it in place during COVID times (Oct-20) and when Quest was about a quarter of its current size (and had meaningfully higher customer concentration).</p><p><em>Reliance on Majors for Hauling</em></p><p>Quest has network of 3,500 haulers and minimal reliance on WMs and Republics of the world. In a &#8220;franchised&#8221; market, Quest may have no choice but to use a major (however the major would be required to provide services for Quest in such a situation). But in the absence of a franchised market, and especially outside of solid waste, Quest uses the majors very infrequently (my understanding is well less than 10% of the time) and in fact makes it a point to actively avoid them. Though the majors have been consolidating the market slowly over time, this risk does not seem to be a major one.<a class="footnote-anchor" data-component-name="FootnoteAnchorToDOM" id="footnote-anchor-18" href="#footnote-18" target="_self">18</a></p><p><em>Consolidation of the Vendor Network</em></p><p>Certain pockets of waste in particular (e.g. Liberty Tire in tire recycling; Safety-Kleen/ Clean Harbors in used oil recycling) have become highly consolidated over the years. In theory, this should limit Quest&#8217;s ability to extract concessions (and compress GMs), but management would tell you that&#8217;s not necessarily the case. Even in a market like tire recycling, which is dominated by Liberty Tire, Quest does not necessarily earn a lower GM. Liberty Tire, for example, is supposedly poor at reporting and customer service, which provides Quest an opening to layer in a value-added offering.</p><h2>Historical Summary Financials</h2><p>Below is a snapshot of Quest&#8217;s summary financials since 2016.</p><p>The &#8220;adj EBITDA&#8221; figures are the company&#8217;s own &#8220;reported&#8221; adjusted EBITDA. These figures do not account for the impact of the RWS integration, however, that has weighed on results since 2022. I make further adjustments to incorporate the RWS impact (using management estimates provided on calls). These adjustments do not give me much heartburn, as I believe they were real factors that weighed on results and will not be going forward.</p><p>The other major set of adjustments I make is in the &#8220;Normalized&#8221; column, which I believe reflects a more normalized cash flow profile for the business once its debt is refinanced (and excluding non-cash interest expense), and with more normalized levels of capex and capitalized software. Capex has been elevated recently due to opportunistic compactor purchases to support certain new logo(s), which, while a good use of capital, are not expected to be a major part of the go-forward strategy. Capitalized software has been elevated recently related to Quest&#8217;s technology investments discussed earlier, and are expected to taper off per management commentary.  </p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!idZ4!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9357d4be-e4c5-46ae-9f8b-22ac21976584_1950x1858.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!idZ4!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9357d4be-e4c5-46ae-9f8b-22ac21976584_1950x1858.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!idZ4!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9357d4be-e4c5-46ae-9f8b-22ac21976584_1950x1858.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!idZ4!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9357d4be-e4c5-46ae-9f8b-22ac21976584_1950x1858.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!idZ4!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9357d4be-e4c5-46ae-9f8b-22ac21976584_1950x1858.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!idZ4!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9357d4be-e4c5-46ae-9f8b-22ac21976584_1950x1858.png" width="1456" height="1387" 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9357d4be-e4c5-46ae-9f8b-22ac21976584_1950x1858.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!idZ4!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9357d4be-e4c5-46ae-9f8b-22ac21976584_1950x1858.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!idZ4!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9357d4be-e4c5-46ae-9f8b-22ac21976584_1950x1858.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!idZ4!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9357d4be-e4c5-46ae-9f8b-22ac21976584_1950x1858.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><h2>Corporate Timeline</h2><ul><li><p><strong>2007:</strong> Quest founded. Launched &#8220;Supertruck&#8221; tire recycling service in partnership with Walmart, shredding tires in route to collection point / processing facility (ensuring scrap tires could not be returned or re-used)</p></li><li><p><strong>2008:</strong> Launched national program to recycle used motor oil and oil filters for one of largest US retailers</p></li><li><p><strong>2009:</strong> Launched animal feed donation program, connecting retailers with excess meat &amp; seafood with animal rescue shelters; launched used cooking oil recycling solution</p></li><li><p><strong>2010:</strong> Launched first nationwide retail food waste recovery program, recycling food waste as compost, animal feed additives and a source of energy</p></li><li><p><strong>2011:</strong> Launched closed-loop re-refined motor oil solution for AT&amp;T&#8217;s global fleet operations as part of comprehensive waste service solution for the company</p></li><li><p><strong>2012:</strong> Launched a sustainable facilities practice, including energy modeling and water minimization solutions</p></li><li><p><strong>2013:</strong> Added municipal solid waste management service; IPOs and begins trading publicly</p></li><li><p><strong>2016:</strong> Ray Hatch and Dave Sweitzer join as CEO and COO, respectively; Quest begins sunsetting unprofitable accounts; business assessment led to focus on delivering complex, differentiated services to select, high-value customers in strategic verticals</p></li><li><p><strong>2016:</strong> Launched offering to help construction sites minimize waste footprint</p></li><li><p><strong>2018:</strong> Launched comprehensive recycling solution &amp; vent hood cleaning for restaurants</p></li><li><p><strong>Apr-19:</strong> Revamped ownership base through secondary offerings of 4.3mm shares at $1.50 and 1.8mm shares at $2.00 (to Hampstead Park Capital). Prior Chairman Mitchell Saltz and board member Jeffrey Forte stepped down from board. Dan Friedberg (Managing Partner of Hampstead Park) joins as Chairman, Stephen Nolan joins board (designee of Hampstead Park)</p></li><li><p><strong>Nov-19:</strong> Appointed Mathew Lewis as SVP of Sales</p></li><li><p><strong>Aug-20:</strong> Sold 2.95mm shares at an offering price of $1.15, raising $3.4mm to help fund Green Remedies acquisition</p></li><li><p><strong>Oct-20:</strong> Acquired Green Remedies Waste &amp; Recycling, a provider of environmental services with a focus on multi-family housing in the southeastern US</p></li><li><p><strong>2021:</strong> Launched Proganics, a process that delivers significant diversion levels of organic waste away from landfills. Proganics provides a single collection process for multiple waste streams, including floral, cardboard, unpackaged food as well as packaged food, along with the packaging. Organic materials are 100% diverted from landfill recycled and repurposed to create compose, biofuel or animal feed</p></li><li><p><strong>Jun-21 &#8211; Feb-22:</strong> Made 5 additional acquisitions</p></li><li><p><strong>Jul-23:</strong> Hired Perry Moss as SVP of Sales</p></li><li><p><strong>Apr-24:</strong> Added United Natural Foods, an 8-figure customer and its first in the food distribution vertical</p></li></ul><p><em>Annotated PV Chart</em></p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!MwM7!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fdc2a2ca1-0964-421f-be21-296dee64bb61_5400x3218.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!MwM7!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fdc2a2ca1-0964-421f-be21-296dee64bb61_5400x3218.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!MwM7!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fdc2a2ca1-0964-421f-be21-296dee64bb61_5400x3218.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!MwM7!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fdc2a2ca1-0964-421f-be21-296dee64bb61_5400x3218.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!MwM7!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fdc2a2ca1-0964-421f-be21-296dee64bb61_5400x3218.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!MwM7!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fdc2a2ca1-0964-421f-be21-296dee64bb61_5400x3218.png" width="1456" height="868" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/dc2a2ca1-0964-421f-be21-296dee64bb61_5400x3218.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:868,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:1100854,&quot;alt&quot;:null,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:null,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!MwM7!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fdc2a2ca1-0964-421f-be21-296dee64bb61_5400x3218.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!MwM7!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fdc2a2ca1-0964-421f-be21-296dee64bb61_5400x3218.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!MwM7!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fdc2a2ca1-0964-421f-be21-296dee64bb61_5400x3218.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!MwM7!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fdc2a2ca1-0964-421f-be21-296dee64bb61_5400x3218.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g><path d="M2.53001 7.81595C3.49179 4.73911 6.43281 2.5 9.91173 2.5C13.1684 2.5 15.9537 4.46214 17.0852 7.23684L17.6179 8.67647M17.6179 8.67647L18.5002 4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><h2>In Conclusion</h2><p>While Quest&#8217;s PPS has risen steadily over the past 5 years, it has also &#8220;de-risked&#8221; in meaningful ways, and the stock may be better positioned than ever from a risk-reward standpoint. The biggest question mark that remained for me was how strongly they could grow organically. Its recent string of new logo wins + continued strength in the pipeline has eased these fears.</p><p>I believe shares at this level provide good prospects for attractive returns &#8212; both near-term on account of inflecting operating leverage + organic growth, and longer-term due to attractive secular tailwinds + a flywheel driven by scale (that results in an increasingly stronger offering and competitive position).</p><div><hr></div><div class="subscription-widget-wrap-editor" data-attrs="{&quot;url&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/subscribe?&quot;,&quot;text&quot;:&quot;Subscribe&quot;,&quot;language&quot;:&quot;en&quot;}" data-component-name="SubscribeWidgetToDOM"><div class="subscription-widget show-subscribe"><div class="preamble"><p class="cta-caption">Thanks for reading Lewistown Capital! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work.</p></div><form class="subscription-widget-subscribe"><input type="email" class="email-input" name="email" placeholder="Type your email&#8230;" tabindex="-1"><input type="submit" class="button primary" value="Subscribe"><div class="fake-input-wrapper"><div class="fake-input"></div><div class="fake-button"></div></div></form></div></div><div><hr></div><h2>Important Disclaimer</h2><p>This presentation is intended for informational purposes only and you, the reader, should not make any financial, investment, or trading decisions based upon the author's commentary. </p><p>Although the information set forth above has been obtained or derived from sources believed to be reliable, the author does not make any representation or warranty, express or implied, as to the information's accuracy or completeness, nor does the author recommend that the above information serve as the basis of any investment decision. </p><p>Before investing in a security, readers should carefully consider their financial positions and risk tolerances to determine if such a stock selection is appropriate. At any time, the author may trade in or out of any securities that are mentioned in the report as long or short positions in his portfolio without disclosing this information. </p><p>This report&#8217;s estimated fundamental value only represents a best efforts estimate of the potential fundamental valuation of a specific security, and is not expressed as, or implied as, assessments of the quality of a security or an actionable investment strategy for an investor.</p><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-1" href="#footnote-anchor-1" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">1</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;Q: We&#8217;ve talked in the past that as you get bigger, you&#8217;re giving some of your third-party partners more business and scale, and so I would assume you have some of the best pricing out there as well?</p><p>Ray Hatch: <strong>Yeah I would assume that as well, I really hope so and we believe that.</strong> Part of our model with our sub-contractors is utilizing excess capacity, that always existing to a certain degree.  So, when we bring a book of business, is how we term it &#8211; a national account that we&#8217;re working on or just picked up. When we bring a book of business to a marketplace, there are several players that we could utilize in most cases. Some people are going to want it more than others. If they&#8217;re driving by these locations that we&#8217;re talking about with this national account. And they can stop in there and have little to no incremental costs on the variable side and no cost on the [fixed] side. The term we use for our suppliers is asset utilization and route optimization, is really what we bring to them.&#8221; &#8212; Mar-22 Roth Conference</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-2" href="#footnote-anchor-2" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">2</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;And we've talked about it before. I think we do like 100 -- over 100 waste streams. But out of that 100, there's quite a few of those we have relatively little scale just because there's not a lot of it out there with the clients that we have. <strong>So I would say probably 2/3rds of that we could really use more scale</strong> and will get more scale as we add strategic customers to fill those out. And I mean, there's some -- without getting specific, but I'm thinking of one waste stream, we thought we were really, really strong, and we were, but then we made -- one of our acquisitions brought us I don't know, another 20 or 25 vendors that we didn't have in that space that all of a sudden, with the same commodity or recycled material we had infinitely larger leverage and geographic coverage. So I don't know, it's a tough question to answer, but I'd probably say at least 2/3rds of the waste streams that we have today, we've got significant opportunities to expand scale within those.&#8221; &#8212; q2&#8217;23 earnings</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-3" href="#footnote-anchor-3" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">3</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>"For the year, we estimate that approximately 2/3 of the increase in gross profit dollars came from acquisitions and the remaining 1/3 from organic growth. Of the organic growth for the year, the bulk was also driven by new customer growth." &#8212; q4&#8217;22 earnings</p><p>GP increased by 70% total in '22.  1/3rd of that would equate to ~23% organic growth for 2022</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-4" href="#footnote-anchor-4" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">4</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>"During 2021, we also delivered accelerated organic growth. Overall, we grew gross profit dollars by more than 50%. The growth in gross profit and EBITDA was driven by strength across our business, from existing customers through new customers and via acquisitions. Our growth would split 60-40 between organic and acquisitions, with organic being the larger of the 2 drivers. Over the last few years, our strength has been in our client relationships, and we see that as our core strength." &#8212; q4&#8217;21 earnings</p><p>GP increased by 51% total in '21.  60% of that would equate to ~31% organic growth for 2021.</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-5" href="#footnote-anchor-5" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">5</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>If we were to instead come at organic growth by backing out revenue from acquisitions (where revenue for the smaller acquisitions must be estimated, as it is not disclosed), I come to a ~16% CAGR, so same rough ballpark.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!SMF6!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa44fcd8b-ca60-438f-a3cd-46a4c1ea03c8_3175x2057.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!SMF6!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa44fcd8b-ca60-438f-a3cd-46a4c1ea03c8_3175x2057.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!SMF6!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa44fcd8b-ca60-438f-a3cd-46a4c1ea03c8_3175x2057.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!SMF6!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa44fcd8b-ca60-438f-a3cd-46a4c1ea03c8_3175x2057.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!SMF6!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa44fcd8b-ca60-438f-a3cd-46a4c1ea03c8_3175x2057.png 1456w" sizes="100vw"><img src="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!SMF6!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa44fcd8b-ca60-438f-a3cd-46a4c1ea03c8_3175x2057.png" width="1456" height="943" data-attrs="{&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/a44fcd8b-ca60-438f-a3cd-46a4c1ea03c8_3175x2057.png&quot;,&quot;srcNoWatermark&quot;:null,&quot;fullscreen&quot;:null,&quot;imageSize&quot;:null,&quot;height&quot;:943,&quot;width&quot;:1456,&quot;resizeWidth&quot;:null,&quot;bytes&quot;:107516,&quot;alt&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;title&quot;:null,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;image/png&quot;,&quot;href&quot;:null,&quot;belowTheFold&quot;:true,&quot;topImage&quot;:false,&quot;internalRedirect&quot;:null,&quot;isProcessing&quot;:false,&quot;align&quot;:null,&quot;offset&quot;:false}" class="sizing-normal" alt="" title="" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!SMF6!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa44fcd8b-ca60-438f-a3cd-46a4c1ea03c8_3175x2057.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!SMF6!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa44fcd8b-ca60-438f-a3cd-46a4c1ea03c8_3175x2057.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!SMF6!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa44fcd8b-ca60-438f-a3cd-46a4c1ea03c8_3175x2057.png 1272w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!SMF6!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1456, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa44fcd8b-ca60-438f-a3cd-46a4c1ea03c8_3175x2057.png 1456w" sizes="100vw" loading="lazy"></picture><div class="image-link-expand"><div class="pencraft pc-display-flex pc-gap-8 pc-reset"><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container restack-image"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none" stroke-width="1.5" stroke="var(--color-fg-primary)" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" 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y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p></p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-6" href="#footnote-anchor-6" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">6</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;I want to comment on the growth from existing clients. We have long said there is a great deal of opportunity with our existing client base, and that is still very much the case. We've done a good job over the last several years of adding new business with existing clients, which has been a stable source of growth for our company. However, I believe we're just beginning to scratch the surface of what we can do for our existing clients. During the last several quarters, [due to the capabilities we&#8217;ve demonstrated,] several of our largest clients are coming to us and asking us to do more.</p><p>They've been -- they have seen the value of our platform and give the corporate level not only greater visibility into their spend at the local level, but also auditable data that allows them to confirm that waste is being handled according to local, regional and national regulations as well as their own corporate level specifications. It's very rewarding that customers are coming to us and asking for solutions, and it shows how well we are regarded.</p><p>As a result of this interest, we plan to take a more proactive approach to working directly with our clients. <strong>We are creating dedicated project teams to work with our larger clients to identify issues and help them understand how we can help. For example, we have been working with a large customer and uncovered more than 50 potential projects where we can help them improve waste management. There are large and small projects that range from the tens of thousands of dollars to 8 figures.</strong> And almost all of these projects have recurring waste management services once the initial projects are completed.&#8221; &#8212; q1&#8217;24 earnings</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-7" href="#footnote-anchor-7" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">7</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;We recently made a slight tweak to our compensation structure of our client service managers, <strong>offering them a chance to earn incentive pay based on growing the contribution from existing customers</strong>. We made this change in the first quarter of '23, and it's been rewarding to see all the excitement level with the entire team. This small investment in incentive compensation will go a long way to increase growth. In addition, we expect these changes to help us retain and attract the best talent and to further align us with our clients' growth goals, diverting more waste from the landfill.&#8221; &#8212; q4&#8217;22 earnings</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-8" href="#footnote-anchor-8" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">8</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>We know this because for new clients that represent in excess of $1m of spend, the company will highlight these wins on earnings calls. The company, however, only provides color along the lines of &#8220;a 7-figure customer&#8221; win or &#8220;an 8-figure customer&#8221; win, thus I need to fill in considerable gaps (i.e. does an 8-figure win mean $10m or $99m?). However, reviewing these wins I think is still a useful exercise, even if these ranges are more &#8220;directional&#8221; in nature&#8230;</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-9" href="#footnote-anchor-9" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">9</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;In many cases, gross margin tends to be relatively lower as we bring on new business, which we traditionally grow over time. Margin from new business tends to improve over time as these accounts mature, and we optimize service levels. <strong>This is the same process we have successfully utilized to drive margin improvement over the last several years.</strong> As we said last quarter, this will likely continue to be a factor with the continued organic growth we anticipate for 2022&#8230; <strong>We've always been able to expand margins.</strong> And actually, in many cases, significantly without a negative to the customer. As a matter of fact, many times a positive to the customer by sharing some of that improved costs. So the answer to your question is, I feel like over time, the team here will do what they've done for years and expand margin in the existing clients. And definitely, I think we can have impact through improved sourcing on the new acquisitions.&#8221; &#8212; q1&#8217;22 earnings call</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-10" href="#footnote-anchor-10" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">10</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;In a market that continues to see inflationary pressure and significant fall of commodity values and certain recycled materials, our business model held up well. As Brett mentioned earlier, <strong>we structured our agreements so that the gross profit dollars are not affected by swings in commodity prices</strong>. But despite the significant decrease in prices for scrap metal and other commodities during the second half of '22, gross profit dollars generated were not significantly affected by those swings. <strong>In an inflationary environment, we're able to offset cost pressures [due to] flexible contracts that allow us to pass through increasing cost as fuel surcharges.</strong>&#8221; &#8212; q4&#8217;22 earnings</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-11" href="#footnote-anchor-11" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">11</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>At the end of 2021, Quest hired a SVP of Strategy &#8220;to lead our efforts and manage new investments in technology and changes to our process that will further improve operations and scalability.&#8221;  </p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-12" href="#footnote-anchor-12" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">12</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>As mentioned, I believe the correct way to calculate returns on capital for Quest is to exclude the &#8220;initial&#8221; goodwill balance of $58.2m that resulted from Quest being acquired by a public entity (the process through which Quest &#8220;went public&#8221;). As you can see below in the &#8220;Normalized&#8221; run rate column, I expect ROEs to ramp well north of 100% in the near-term, once Quest&#8217;s term loan is refinanced.</p><div class="captioned-image-container"><figure><a class="image-link image2 is-viewable-img" target="_blank" href="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Qqoh!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F713fa458-b152-4d2a-860f-c11662107073_1809x2219.png" data-component-name="Image2ToDOM"><div class="image2-inset"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset="/__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Qqoh!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_424, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_webp, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F713fa458-b152-4d2a-860f-c11662107073_1809x2219.png 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/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F713fa458-b152-4d2a-860f-c11662107073_1809x2219.png 424w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Qqoh!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_848, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F713fa458-b152-4d2a-860f-c11662107073_1809x2219.png 848w, /__u/substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Qqoh!, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/w_1272, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/c_limit, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/f_auto, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/q_auto:good, /__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F713fa458-b152-4d2a-860f-c11662107073_1809x2219.png 1272w, 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4.26471M17.6179 8.67647L13.6473 6.91176M17.4995 12.1841C16.5378 15.2609 13.5967 17.5 10.1178 17.5C6.86118 17.5 4.07589 15.5379 2.94432 12.7632L2.41165 11.3235M2.41165 11.3235L1.5293 15.7353M2.41165 11.3235L6.38224 13.0882"></path></g></svg></button><button tabindex="0" type="button" class="pencraft pc-reset pencraft icon-container view-image"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-maximize2 lucide-maximize-2"><polyline points="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyline><polyline points="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyline><line x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></line><line x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></line></svg></button></div></div></div></a></figure></div><p> </p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-13" href="#footnote-anchor-13" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">13</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;One area that we're not satisfied with is the pace at which we're adding new business. We've achieved considerable success by expanding the relationships with many of our existing customers, and we've added several new customers but just not as many as we would have liked. Our focus on the right customers is working. It's just the speed of adding new business is not where we want it to be. To address this, late in 2019, we made changes in our sales structure and really broadening our focus on new customer acquisition. We now have a leadership in the team with deep domain experience in our targeted end markets.&#8221; &#8212; q4&#8217;19 earnings</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-14" href="#footnote-anchor-14" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">14</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;In the past, unfortunately, as we&#8217;ve added business, in my opinion we&#8217;ve chased it with costs. We haven&#8217;t created that leverage that we&#8217;ve needed to in years past. Now we&#8217;ve started to do it and it&#8217;s an exciting thing.&#8221; &#8211; Jun-24 IDEAS Conference</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-15" href="#footnote-anchor-15" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">15</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;So what we have talked about was getting to a 4% to 6% EBITDA percentage in the next three years to four years and we are making great progress towards that. But that is what our guidance was on that that we are looking at accomplishing that over a three-year to five-year time period.&#8221; &#8212; q3&#8217;19 earnings</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-16" href="#footnote-anchor-16" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">16</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;Going forward we intend to continue to manage the business to maintain gross margin in our targeted range of low to mid teens, but gross margin can vary considerably from period-to-period.&#8221; &#8212; q4&#8217;18 earnings</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-17" href="#footnote-anchor-17" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">17</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;We're also having success adding new end markets, having added 2 in the past couple of quarters. These areas have significant growth potential, and we're well positioned to add additional new clients in these markets, as well as new service lines where there is a crossover of services within our existing client base.&#8221; &#8212; q1&#8217;24 earnings</p></div></div><div class="footnote" data-component-name="FootnoteToDOM"><a id="footnote-18" href="#footnote-anchor-18" class="footnote-number" contenteditable="false" target="_self">18</a><div class="footnote-content"><p>&#8220;One of the beautiful things about this business, it seems to be bottomless as far as the ability to find good quality companies that are looking to partner with someone like us to enhance their earnings. So we haven't seen - those consolidations haven't created issues.&#8221; &#8212; q4&#8217;21 earnings</p></div></div>]]></content:encoded></item><item><title><![CDATA[Coming soon]]></title><description><![CDATA[This is Lewistown Capital.]]></description><link>https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/p/coming-soon</link><guid isPermaLink="false">https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/p/coming-soon</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[Ryan Seawell]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Tue, 23 Jul 2024 22:43:01 GMT</pubDate><enclosure url="https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!huDc!,w_256,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F12245b70-7f17-4af6-99f3-1ff80fde9af2_918x918.png" length="0" type="image/jpeg"/><content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is Lewistown Capital.</p><p class="button-wrapper" data-attrs="{&quot;url&quot;:&quot;https://lewistowncapital.substack.com/subscribe?&quot;,&quot;text&quot;:&quot;Subscribe now&quot;,&quot;action&quot;:null,&quot;class&quot;:null}" data-component-name="ButtonCreateButton"><a class="button primary" href="/__u/lewistowncapital.substack.com/subscribe"><span>Subscribe now</span></a></p>]]></content:encoded></item></channel></rss>