Some of you may have noticed that I have become rather silent over the last few weeks. Most of you know that this is because my husband Tom died a few weeks ago. The memorial is next Wednesday at 2pm PT. It will be live streamed here:

https://bpcseattle.online.church/nIn lieu of flowers please consider memorial donations to Circlewood https://www.circlewood.online/ to help enable the further development of the land on Camano Island that Tom was so passionate about. For more information or to leave comments or photos on the digital site at the funeral home https://www.funerals.coop/obituaries/thomas-sine

We have not been completely silent on Liturgical Rebels however. Thanks to my assistant Melissa we have uploaded several episodes, some of them repeats of our very popular Celtic Spirituality series a couple of years ago. I am also starting to conduct interviews again and expect to have an exciting new line up available shortly.

Here are the episodes from the last few weeks. I appreciate your prayers as I reevaluate my life and the future of Liturgical Rebels podcast.

Episode 64 - Repodcast: Christine and Tom’s Sine reflect on Celtic Spirituality

Episode 63 - Part II: The Time To Act Is Now: The Case For Renewable Energy with Bill McKibben - Reposted from Earthkeepers podcast

Episode 62 - Part I: The Time To Act Is Now: The Case For Renewable Energy with Bill McKibben - Reposted from Earthkeepers podcast.

The Time To Act Is Now: The Case For Renewable Energy with Bill McKibben

I am delighted with today’s episode of Liturgical Rebels. We are re-podcasting an interview with well-known author, journalist and environmentalist, Bill McKibben from the podcast, Earthkeepers. Bill McKibben’s writing has greatly influenced my life and I he has challenged me to become sustainable in all that I do.

This episode, cocreated by Circlewood and their partner organization A Rocha USA, is cohosted by James Amadon, executive director of Circlewood, and by Deb Rienstra, a writer, speaker, and professor who serves on A Rocha USA’s advisory board.

Liturgical Rebels’ re-podcast will be in two parts. McKibben’s writing has appeared in countless publications like The New Yorker and Rolling Stone, and he has written many books over the last few decades. In this engaging interview, Bill shares insights on climate change, renewable energy, and the role of faith communities in fostering cultural and technological change. This conversation covers practical solutions, spiritual perspectives, and inspiring stories that motivate collective action for a sustainable future.

Key Topics

• The economic shift towards renewable energy

• The spiritual and cultural role in environmental change

• Practical steps for individuals and communities

Links

• Earthkeepers Podcast

• Bill McKibben’s website

• Here Comes the Sun by Bill McKibben

• A Rocha USA

• Deb Rienstra’s website

• Earthkeepers Episode 85: Becoming Hope: Debra Rienstra on Her Book Refugia Faith

• The Vatican’s solar project

• Third Act: Harnessing generational power to safeguard our climate and democracy.

• 350.org: Fighting climate change for people and planet

• A Rocha USA: Ways to get involved

• TEND: Cultivating faith-based, creation-focused community

• Advocating for plug-in solar

Listen here or wherever you get your podcasts.

The Time To Act Is Now: The Case For Renewable Energy with Bill McKibben

Danae Ashley is one of my favourite people. I have always admired her spirituality, her commitment to health and her love of laughter, Celtic spirituality and dancing. I admire her ability to bridge the years and the traditions of past and present as she links the life and approaches of two unlikely people - Hildegard von Bingen and Alfred Adler. This was a fascinating interview about an inspiring book.

Here is a sneak preview:

In this conversation, Danae Ashley and I talk about her book ‘My Sap is Rising: A Pilgrimage of Holistic Mental Health Healing with Hildegard of Bingen and Alfred Adler‘ which aims to bridge the teachings of Hildegard and Adler in the context of health. They also discuss the concept of being a liturgical rebel. Danae shares her experiences with mysticism, the importance of personal rituals, and her passion for storytelling. The discussion also delves into the life of Hildegard von Bingen, exploring her contributions as a mystic, healer, and visionary, and how her legacy continues to inspire today. Christine and Danae discuss how chronic illness may be connected to deeper spiritual insights and the importance of understanding mental health holistically. The conversation emphasizes the value of community in mental health and the potential of spiritual experiences. They discuss the influence of Adlerian psychology and the significance of spiritual foundations in the healing process.

Takeaways

• Liturgical rebels seek connection to God outside of church.

• A mystical experience is any intense experience of connection to God.

• Hildegard von Bingen’s work bridges spirituality and mental health.

• Holistic healing rests on spiritual foundations.

• Both Hildegard’s healing and Adler’s psychology treat and focus on the individual as an indivisible whole.

• Spiritual practices can include creative approaches to faith.

• Exploring nature spirituality is essential for holistic healing.

• Community engagement is vital in spiritual practices.

The Rev. Danae Ashley is an Episcopal priest, Adlerian psychotherapist, international speaker, and voiceover actress in the Pacific Northwest. Danae uses art, music, drama, poetry, and movement in counseling, spiritual direction, and creation of ritual. She has written for various online publications, as well as being a contributor to podcasts, books, and producing a play about fertility struggle. Danae’s book, My Sap is Rising: A Pilgrimage of Holistic Mental Health Healing with Hildegard of Bingen and Alfred Adler debuted in March 2026. When not reading, writing, or speaking about Hildegard, you may find her traveling with her husband, making sure their rescue dog is living his best life, dancing with wild abandon to Celtic music, and serious karaoke. Learn more about her work at www.danaeashley.com.

Follow the link below or listen wherever you get your podcasts.

Danae Ashley: On Pilgrimage with Hildegard Von Bingen and Alfred Alder

Transforming Neighbourhoods with Tim Soerens

Tim Soerens is one of my favourite people. tom and I used to say that the Inhabit conference which he and his collaborators Paul Sparks and Dwight Friesen co-ordinated was like a family or tribal gathering which we felt we belonged to. I love the way Tim continues to expand and develop the idea of rethinking the church and our role in neighbourhood renewal. It was inspiring to interview him.

Tim and I discuss reimagining church and neighborhood renewal, emphasizing the importance of community stories and needs. We explored innovative models like the Parish Collective and impact investing aimed at fostering local flourishing and spiritual renewal. Tim emphasized the importance of inclusivity and support for marginalized groups, aiming to create multicultural communities where everyone can thrive.

• Tim Soerens advocates for a radical rethinking of church roles where the church is fundamentally about transforming lives and neighborhoods.

• The Parish Collective grew from grassroots conversations.

• The concept of parish emphasizes community and shared life.

• Creative solutions are emerging to repair local economies.

• Attention to grassroots stories is crucial for community development.Access to capital is vital for community growth.

• Multicultural communities are essential for acceptance and flourishing.

• The Parish Collective focuses on neighborhood flourishing.

• Tim’s book ‘Everywhere You Look’ explores church presence in daily life.

• Community transformation requires active engagement with the marginalized.

• Sharing stories strengthens community bonds.

Tim Soerens is the Co-Founding executive director of the Parish Collective, a network of churches around the United States focused on neighborhood flourishing. He recently wrote, “Everywhere You Look: Discovering the Church, Right Where You Are.” His co-authored first book “The New Parish: How Neighborhood Churches Transform Mission, Discipleship, and Community” (Intervarsity Press, 2014) won multiple awards, including Christianity Today’s award of merit. He lives in Chicago with his family.

He can be reached through the Parish Collective or Tim Soerens websites.

Listen here or wherever you get your podcasts.

Transforming Neighbourhoods with Tim Soerens

Episode 59 - Discovering the Beauty and Wonder of Birding with Ragan Sutterfield

I have been really looking forward to publishing this episode of Liturgical Rebels Podcast. Ragan Sutterfield’s book Watch and Wonder: Birding as a Spiritual Practice was inspirational. I am not a birder, but I found Ragan Sutterfield’s insights both as a birder and as an Episcopal priest inspired me to take more notice not just of the birds but of the whole of creation and the beauty of the environment around me.

His chapter on grief was very impacting for me firstly because of the grief I am myself experiencing as I walk through the dementia of my husband. Secondly because I only recently learned about the millions of birds that die by hitting buildings. Ragan talks about listening to “ghost birds” recordings of birds that have disappeared from our world but whose calls were recorded beforehand. This is part of what he calls a “practicing grief as part of the work of love.”

Ragan discussed the profound impact birding had on his on personal growth, spirituality, and ecological awareness. Our conversation explored how birding can enhance our listening skills, the importance of grieving what we love, and the need for participation in beauty rather than possession. Ragan discusses the possibility of finding life where many birds do and where Jesus called us, in marginalized spaces.

Takeaways

Birding can be a meaningful spiritual practice.
Faith and nature are intertwined.
Birding encourages attention, mindfulness and presence.
Birding offers a pathway to understanding our place in God’s world.
Connecting with nature can lead to deep spiritual insights.
Modern technology, like birding apps, enhances the birdwatching experience.
Birds serve as a gateway to understanding larger ecological systems.
The seasonal patterns of birds help us connect with the rhythms of nature.
Beauty is best appreciated through participation, not possession.
Birds can teach us about life in marginal spaces.
Active listening can deepen our spiritual practices.

Ragan Sutterfield is a priest in the Episcopal Church and serves a parish in his native Arkansas. He is author of the book is “Watch and Wonder: Birding as a Spiritual Practice”. His writing has appeared in a variety of places including The Christian Century, Sojourners, The Oxford American, Plough, and The Englewood Review of Books. Ragan’s writing and interests are focused at the intersection of faith and ecology where he brings his background in birding, permaculture, and soil ecology into conversation with philosophy, theology, and the Christian spiritual tradition. He writes regularly about these topics at “The Way We Practice” on Substack. Ragan seeks to live the good life with his wife Emily and daughters Lillian and Lucia.

Episode 59 - Discovering the Beauty and Wonder of Birding with Ragan Sutterfield

Peacemaking in a Violent World with Weldon Nisly

I have known Weldon Nisly for many years and deeply respect him and the peacemaker work he is involved in. His emphasis on non violent intervention has so many applications. It was a godsend to us in a time when we need help working through some conflict in our organization. His grounding in Anabaptist theology and role as a pastor have also been an inspiration to both Tom and me. His accompanying emphasis on liturgy and his understanding of how it shapes our community identity is also incredibly important.

In this conversation, Weldon Nisly shares his extensive journey in ministry and peacemaking, highlighting the importance of liturgy in shaping community identity. He discusses his recent experiences in Iraq and Kurdistan with Community Peacemaker Teams, emphasizing the need for non-violence training and the significance of personal connections in peacemaking efforts. In this conversation, Weldon Nisly shares his experiences and insights from working in conflict zones, particularly in Kurdish regions and Palestine. He discusses the ongoing quest for peace, the importance of community engagement, and the challenges faced by those living under oppression. The conversation also touches on the emotional toll of witnessing violence and the need for spiritual resilience. Additionally, the discussion highlights the complexities of immigration and the impact of war on displaced populations.

I particularly love this excerpt - War is a lie!

Takeaways

• Faith plays a crucial role in peacemaking.

• Community support is essential for nonviolent action.

• Spiritual practices sustain peace efforts.

• Community Peacemaker Teams provide the material governments rely on to understand their own countries.

• Nonviolent action can be effective in global conflict zones.

• Advocating for peace in violent regions is critical.

• Contemplative practices are essential in peace-building.

You can learn more about Weldon and the work of Community Peacemaker Teams at:

• Community Peacemaker Teams -- https://cpt.org

• Subscribe to CPT newsletter and Friday Bulletin -- https://cpt.org/subscribe

• Join a CPT delegation to any of the CPT teams -- https://cpt.org/delegations

• Weldon writes an occasional newsletter called Voices & Visions for Just Peace with CPT updates and other peacebuilding news and analyses. If you would like to be added to this mailing, please send an email request to nislyweldon@gmail.com.

Listen here or wherever you get your podcasts.

Peacemaking in a Violent World with Weldon Nisly

Visiting the Cofan Nation in Ecuador with Emmy and Federico Borman

It is not often one gets the opportunity to interview someone who is in the middle of the Ecuadorian rainforest. That however is what I got to do a few weeks ago and the birds in the background were at times deafening. It was an absolute delight and gave me itchy feet to join them for ecotour of the forest.

In this conversation I speak with Emmy and Frederico Borman about their work in the Ecuadorian rainforest. They help run the Cofan Survival Fund which is dedicated to the survival of the Cofán indigenous culture and its Amazonian rain forest environment. They discuss comparative spirituality, indigenous values, and the vital necessity for all of us that the Amazonian rainforest survive and thrive. Their work gives hope in an often overwhelming world.

Key Points

• Rainforest preservation is not just for helping locals, but, is necessary for all of us

• The Cofan people have cultural and spiritual perspectives that are in harmony with Christianity

• There are external threats like illegal mining and deforestation

• In the face of overwhelming work, find the one thing you can do, and do it

• There is a pristine rainforest in Ecuador and you can visit

Here is a sneak preview:

Casete puyi’coo (greetings everyone) Federico and Emmy Borman have been married for 12 years and live in Ecuador. Ecuador is Federico’s home country. He is a member of the Cofan Nation, one of the oldest surviving indigenous cultures in the Ecuadorian Amazon. The Cofan still maintain their language, cultural identity, traditional way of life and a value system linked in communal life in the rainforest. Emmy is originally from Kansas, USA through her relationship with Federico she has learned about the Cofan way of life, and it has reshaped her understanding about faith, creation, home and community.

They both volunteer with the Cofan Survival Fund, a non-profit founded by Federico’s father and mother. The Cofan Survival Fund is dedicated to the survival of the Cofan indigenous culture and its Amazonian rainforest environment through conservation and social programs. The Cofan commitment to conservation in the midst of oil contamination, mining and deforestation threats, is a true testament of their dedication to serve our planet, and all of us, as vital stewards of the last pristine forests of Amazonia.

Listen to the episode here or wherever you get your podcasts. :

Visiting the Cofan Nation in Ecuador with Emmy and Federico Borman

More about the Cofan and the Bormans’ work can be found at:

• www.cofan.org

• Instagram: @cofansurvivalfund

A few weeks ago I published a Liturgical Rebels episode with Australian indigenous leader Ray Minnecon. Not long after, (April 25th) Ray gave the Acknowledgement and Welcome to Country at the ANZAC day ceremony in Sydney. ANZAC day is the This important acknowledgement often now given by indigenous leaders at important gatherings, was booed, as was a similar welcome in Melbourne.

Exploring Indigenous Wisdom with Ray Minnecon

Anzac Dayis a national day of remembrance in Australia, and New Zealand that broadly commemorates all Australians and New Zealanders "who served and died in all wars, conflicts, and peacekeeping operations" and "the contribution and suffering of all those who have served". Observed on 25 April each year, Anzac Day was originally devised to honour the members of the Australian and New Zealand Army Corps(ANZAC) who served in the Gallipoli campaign, their first engagement in the First World War (1914–1918).

I thought you might be interested in Ray’s response to this booing of his welcome and the unfortunate incident that spoiled the whole ceremony for many .

Hey you Mob. Thanks for all your love and support!!...You’re all too deadly!!! And I Thought I would give a personal perspective on our ANZAC Day and share a few thoughts on yesterday...

A Sacred Tribute for ANZAC Day

Pastor and Uncle Raymond Minniecon

Yesterday, as on every ANZAC Day, I stood again upon ground that is more than public space. It is holy ground. A place set apart in the life of this nation. Like a living altar in time, where we step away from the noise of a restless world and return to what is enduring, what is costly, what is true. This day does not ask for casual memory. It calls us into deep remembrance. Into reverence. Into listening.

We listen to the silence between the bugle calls. We listen to the stories carried in the soil. We listen to the names, etched not only in stone, but in spirit. Here, we are reminded of who we are, and whose shoulders we stand upon.

For this is a day marked by sacrifice. Lives given. Futures surrendered. Sacrificial love poured out for family, for Country, for one another.

For me, the Acknowledgement and Welcome to Country is never a performance. It is a sacred act of truth. A moment of bowing my heart, mind, and spirit to the ancient custodians of this land, and to all who have walked it, cared for it, and, in time, defended it with their lives.

In that act, we hold together the old stories and the new. The ancient memory of Country, and the more recent memory of war the deep kinship to this land, and the courage of those who stood in its defence. This land remembers. It holds the imprint of struggle and survival.

It carries the echoes of courage and the weight of loss.

And so, each year, we give thanks, not for glory, but for love. Sacrificial love that was willing to lay itself down. Love that chose others above selfLove that endures beyond death.

Yesterday, at the Martin Place Cenotaph, as at all cenotaphs across this country, we stood within a sacred space. And yet, that sacredness was broken. That moment was disturbed.

That place was dishonoured. Such acts do not merely disrupt a ceremony, they wound something deeper in all of us. They failed to recognise the weight of what is held in these spaces. They forgot the cost that has been paid by our sons and daughters. And so we feel anger. We feel grief. We feel a deep and rightful sense of shame at what has been done. But we must not allow the actions of a few to diminish what is sacred for many. We will not surrender these places. We will not abandon this memory, in Glebe and Redfern and elsewhere. We will not let the sacred be silenced. Instead, we will stand again. Still. Steady. Resolute.

We will remember. And in remembering, we honour those who gave everything.

In remembering, we will protect what is sacred.

In remembering, we will become worthy of the legacy entrusted to us.

Lest we forget

Listen to the podcast:

Exploring Indigenous Wisdom with Ray Minnecon

Listen here: What is A Liturgical Rebel? or wherever you get your podcasts.

Today’s Liturgical Rebel episode is a little different. Not a conversation but a monologue in which I attempt to explain what a liturgical rebel is. And it doesn’t have anything to do with liturgy in the church! This is a question that I get asked quite frequently. To be honest, I don’t always give a good answer. But I’m sure that it’s a question that a number of you are interested in too.

In this conversation, I explore the concept of being a liturgical rebel, emphasizing the importance of spiritual seeking, the need for diverse spiritual practices, and the role of doubt in faith. I discuss how liturgical rebels challenge traditional church norms and seek to create beauty and wholeness in the world through various forms of art and community engagement. I encourage listeners to embrace their unique spiritual journeys and to find practices that resonate with their experiences.

Takeaways

• A liturgical rebel is someone who seeks spiritual growth outside traditional church settings.

• Being a Liturgical Rebel is about walking together in faith, not leading or following.

• There is no clear roadmap for being a follower of Jesus.

• Engaging in diverse spiritual practices can help stretch our understanding of faith.

• Doubt is a natural part of faith and can lead to deeper understanding.

• Spiritual practices can include everyday activities that draw us closer to God.

• Art and creativity are powerful tools for spiritual expression.

• Community engagement is essential for Liturgical Rebels to thrive.

Here is a sneak preview:

Listen here: What is A Liturgical Rebel? or wherever you get your podcasts.

Transcript

What does it mean to be a liturgical rebel? This is a question that I’m sure a number of my listeners asked over the last couple of years as it is not a term that is commonly used.

Last week I was reading Parker Palmer’s Substack my favourite quaker theologian and advocate. He talked about the fact that all of us should have the passion to grow, opening ourselves to experiences and viewpoints outside our comfort zones. That’s it I thought that’s a liturgical rebel if ever I heard a good description. Maybe it’s because it’s so aligns with my own sense of calling at this time.” the passion to grow, to become more of the person God intends me to be is it the heart of who I am. The desire to companion others on that pathway towards wholeness is equally strong. The problem is that there doesn’t seem to be a roadmap, no clear signs that tell me.” turn here, you got it wrong there, listen to what that person has to say, ignore that one.”

I think part of the reason for that is that there is no set pathway. Maybe that is why we need liturgical rebels who are willing to step outside the boxes into which traditional churches and institutions want to put them. They create their own pathway and help others to find theirs too.

Liturgical rebels are people who are spiritually seeking but no longer feel comfortable within traditional approaches to Christian religious observances. Many of them have ditched church altogether. Others only go occasionally looking for a sense of community and a connection to the divine. Still others have transformed the liturgies and rituals they learned in their churches into something totally new.

There is more to being a liturgical rebel however than wanting to grow. We also need to have the discipline to engage in practices and activities that help stretch our minds and sometimes our bodies and spirits as well. We need to open ourselves to experiences and viewpoints outside our comfort zones not being afraid to change. It helps to experiment with practices from other traditions both Christian and non-Christian.

These disciplines can include anything from just using our common sense to saying hey, that doesn’t sound right and being willing to admit that what we have believed might just be wrong. But there are other disciplines too that date back hundreds of years like contemplative prayer, Visio Divina and Lectio Divina that many of us have discovered with great delight in recent years.

However, I find an increasing number of spiritual seekers are stretching outside these church related practices for others that resonate in their souls. It’s not that they’re doubting their faith, though there may be some of that in it, it is more that they are doubting the definition of a spiritual practice.

When I first started seeing gardening as a spiritual practice, it was an Eastern Orthodox scholar and a Zen Buddhist monk that pointed me in the directions that I felt I wanted to follow. I took what they taught me and I created rituals, practices and symbols that were very much focused on Christ that had a unique flavour that fitted my personality.

Thomas Merton says that unless we have doubt then we are not really people of Faith because there is no certainty in this world except for the fact that God loves us.

So doubting the definition of spiritual practices can lead us to regarding things like birdwatching, forest bathing, long distance running, knitting, and even juggling as spiritual-practices. I recently came across a delightful book ordinary Saints living everyday life to the glory of God published by Square Halo books. Their contributions by a huge number of people who have found the delight of drawing closer to God through all kinds of everyday activities. It goes beyond asking the question what makes you feel close to God and instead helps to shape it into a discipline that strengthens our relationship with the divine.

I think that asking questions without expecting answers is one of the attributes of liturgical rebels. For me it all began with asking the question “what is a spiritual practice?”and realising that spiritual practices were far more than the scripture reading and “God give me” prayers that I had been inclined to use to that point.

Another favourite theologian of mine the late John Stott once told me that the answers we get depend on the questions we ask and it was his belief that we were often asking the wrong questions. He encouraged me to start asking “out of the box” questions that liberated my spiritual practices and strengthened my faith.

My most recent insightful question has been “ What is the purpose of our world?” God created the garden of Eden to be a place of of delight and beauty. Human were formed from the dust of the Earth to attend that garden and maintain it as a place where God continued to delight in walking.

I have always believed that God‘s desire is to see wholeness in every aspect of our world but thinking of it as a place of beauty and delight too expands my desire to see this wholeness come. This viewpoint doesn’t mean that we just sit around looking at the beauty of God’s world but it has us asking that further question: What should I be doing to restore or preserve the beauty that God created? Of course there are all kinds of ways that this can be done. War, violence, disease, starvation, racism, inequality, are just a few other things that make it impossible for the beauty of God‘s world to be fully expressed. Getting involved in alleviating these problems in small or big ways is part of what God calls us to.

So much to think about as we engage in the process of creating and restoring beauty. And of course this viewpoint very intentionally incorporates the arts – painting, music, iconography, poetry and sculpting, as well as nature related endeavours like gardening, restoration of waterways, preservation of endangered species, and even the production of food using techniques that do not harm the Earth from which it has grown all the people that eat it. So many ways that we can express the liturgical rebels within us.

Over the coming months I hope to interview more liturgical rebels that will stretch you out of your comfort zones and maybe give you ideas of new ways that you can express your own inner liturgical rebel.

At the same time on Substack I will write a series of posts on spiritual practices that I have found helped me in my journey. These include breath prayers, circling prayers, awe and wonder walks, creativity and going on retreat. I would love to hear from you to know what practice is have most enabled due to expression inlet surgical rebel. What has encouraged you to step outside the box and stirred your passion to grow? What practices do you feel are most helpful in the midst of our very chaotic and fractured World?

As I read on Christy Berghoff’s a couple of days ago “we are the fertile ground out of which better world will be planted and growing in the midst of all this madness.” I think that is a fitting way to describe the power that liturgical Rebels have to change the world. As we step outside our comfort zones, as we express our love for God in many and diverse ways all of us can grow and bring glimpses of gods loving and peaceful kingdom into this world.

Thank you for listening to me today, I would love to hear your comments on your questions about what it means for you to be a liturgical rebel. What has challenged you to step outside your comfort zone? How do you keep moving forward when life is tough? I’m just finished with the prayer and in someways he could say it is part of my answer to these questions.

Love is what holds me.

When I feel lost and alone

And wander through the darkness of despair.

Love is what holds me,

When I am overwhelmed

And afraid of what lies ahead

Love is the embrace of a friend.

Love is the Concern of a neighbour.

Love is the joy of God wondrous world

And more than anything

Love is the glory of God‘s presence,

The energy that holds our universe together

More Powerful than other force

That fills our universe.

Listen here: What is A Liturgical Rebel? or wherever you get your podcasts.

Out of the Box with Kate Caroe

It was a delight to interview Kate Caroe a couple of weeks ago and discover the creative work that came out of COVID for her. It is amazing to see the different ways that God leads people in their lives and professions .

In this conversation with Christine, Kate Caroe in Sheffield England, shares her innovative approach to storytelling, education, and community building through her project Out of the Box. Discover how her methods foster wonder, wisdom, and wellbeing across diverse settings, from schools to care homes, and learn practical ways to incorporate storytelling and reflective practices into your own work.

Takeaways

• Storytelling is a tool for learning and community building

• Emotional connection in stories is key to learning

• Building atmosphere and trust provides space for deep reflection

• Spiritual and community engagement require innovative approaches

Kate Caroe is co-Founder of OutoftheBox Training & Consultancy. She has home educated her six children following the educational philosophy of Charlotte Mason. She is also Chair of Trustees of Steel City Choristers, a grassroots cathedral-style choir which aims to make choral music more relevant and accessible. In the past she worked in international media planning and was a Trustee of Salmon Youth Centre in Bermondsey. Her degree was in Japanese at Clare College Cambridge.

Kate Caroe can be reached at outofthebox.org and Steel City Choristers can be found here.

Listen here: or wherever you get your podcasts.

Out of the Box with Kate Caroe

Exploring Indigenous Wisdom with Ray Minnecon

On Monday I was privileged to interview Australian indigenous pastor Ray Minnecon. I met Ray about 25 years ago. He had a huge influence on my life and my perception not just of the indigenous people of my own country but of indigenous peoples around the world. At that first conference I wept as I heard stories of “the stolen generation” indigenous people filled with pain because they do not know who they are. I was impressed with the community minded way the conference was held and how Indigenous Elders were elected as an oversight group for the gathering. I have never forgotten the lessons I learned and the wisdom these elders expressed.

My interview with Ray Minniecon explores Indigenous heritage, environmental stewardship, and advocacy for Indigenous rights globally. It highlights the importance of land, culture, and spiritual perspectives in addressing climate change and social justice.

Key topics

• Indigenous heritage and advocacy

• Environmental stewardship and land rights

• The impact of colonization and policies like the Stolen Generations

• The need for the UN to exist as a resource for indigenous peoples

• The roles and responsibilities, past and future, of the Church

Ray Minniecon is an Aboriginal pastor with roots in the Kabikabi and Gurang-Gurang tribes of Queensland. He lives in Sydney and has dedicated his life to supporting members of the Stolen Generations of Aboriginals. The term “Stolen Generations” refers to the tens of thousands of Aboriginal children who, from the late 1800s until the 1970s, were forcibly removed from their families by government agencies and church missions in an attempt to assimilate them into the culture of white Australia. Ray is a Board member with several Indigenous Ministries and organizations. He is Founder of the Coloured Digger Project and Consultant to both the Kinchela Boys Home Aboriginal Corporation and the Children of the Bomaderry Aboriginal Children’s Home where many Aboriginal children were taken and placed under the Native Welfare Act of NSW.

Ray Minniecon can be found at the Forgiveness Project and on facebook https://www.facebook.com/raymond.minniecon/

Exploring Indigenous Wisdom with Ray Minnecon

April Yamasaki And Hope Beyond Our Sorrows

In today’s episode of Liturgical Rebels I am in conversation with April Yamasaki author of Hope Beyond Our Sorrows: Learning to Live with Life-Changing Loss. April lost her husband a couple of years ago and I found her book very helpful as I walked through my own loss of a husband who is still present and yet not present. April is a pastor, editor, author, and spiritual formation mentor. She currently serves as resident author with a liturgical worship community in Canada, edits Rejoice! daily devotional magazine, writes online, including here on Substack and often speaks in churches and other settings.

In this insightful interview, April Yamasaki shares her insights into grief, her biblical reflections on loss, and spiritual practices for healing and hope. She and I discuss her books, including ‘Hope Beyond Our Sorrows‘ and ‘Sacred Pauses,’ which offer valuable tools for navigating life’s challenges. April explains how the human journey through grief is similar whether it is the traumatic loss of a spouse, loss of a job, or even loss of a dream.

Key Topics

• Grief and healing process

• Biblical stories of Naomi, Ruth, Elijah

• Spiritual practices for renewal

• Impact of loss on relationships

• Balancing life and faith during grief

April Yamasaki writes on her author website at AprilYamasaki.com, which is the best way to learn more about her. On Substack, she focuses on writing as a spiritual journey. Her most recent books include ‘Hope Beyond Our Sorrows‘ and ‘Sacred Pauses‘. She serves as editor for Rejoice! daily devotional magazine, published by MennoMedia. She also preaches once a month for Valley CrossWay Church, which is a liturgical worship community, and often speaks in other local congregations and settings.

April Yamasaki And Hope Beyond Our Sorrows

Episode 52 - Wes & Stephanie Vander Lugt Founders of Kinship Plot

Episode 52 is a little different from my usual podcast post. As many of you know I have spent the last couple of weeks going through crises, turmoil and relocation for Tom whose dementia is worsening. Last week - the day before his 90th birthday - we relocated him to an Adult Care Home. This experience emphasized for me again the importance of community. As I did not have time to record another interview myself I asked my good friends Forrest Inslee and James Amadon if I could repost this exciting look at community with their guests Wes and Stephanie Vander Lugt, co-founders of Kinship Plot. I hope you enjoy it as much as I did.

In this conversation, originally podcast on Earthkeepers, Christine’s friends Forrest Inslee and James Amadon engage with Wes and Stephanie Vander Lugt, co-founders of Kinship Plot, an intentional community in Charlotte, North Carolina. They discuss the vision behind Kinship Plot, which focuses on cultivating resonant relationships with each other, the land, and with Spirit.

The conversation explores the community’s practices, challenges, and the importance of contemplative action and liberatory welcome. The founders share stories of community engagement, the joy of working together, and the deep longing for belonging and rootedness in a fast-paced world. They emphasize the need for personal reflection and the impact of community on individual healing and growth. Finally, Forrest poses questions meant to get us to think about our own needs for belonging, and how we might take action to cultivate or even initiate communities of purpose.

Read Wes and Stephanie’s post on The Ecological Disciple here.

Kinship Plot

Takeaways

• Kinship Plot is a living laboratory for community engagement.

• The vision was born during COVID, focusing on relationships.

• Community gatherings often take place in their backyard and gardens.

• Names of plants and people are portals into deeper stories.

• Contemplative practices are essential for community life.

• Liberatory welcome means creating open and inclusive spaces.

• Rootedness in a place fosters a sense of belonging.

• Small actions can lead to significant community impact.

• The importance of intergenerational relationships in community building.

More from Earthkeepers can be found here:

Earthkeepers
Support the Earthkeepers podcast
Check out the Ecological Disciple

More from Wes and Stephanie Vander Lugt can be found here:

https://www.kinshipplot.org

Episode 52 - Wes & Stephanie Vander Lugt Founders of Kinship Plot

In today’s episode I will be in conversation with my assistant Melissa Kelly who does much of the background work for this podcast. She edits, uploads the final recordings and develops sound bites to help us let you know about the new episode. This challenging process has made us into good friends rather than colleagues.

In today’s engaging conversation Melissa Kelly and I (Christine Sine) will discuss the intricacies and challenges of producing a podcast and the steep learning curve we both embarked on 2 years ago as we began. We enjoy the connections we make with guests from around the world, and the importance of exploring diverse perspectives on faith and spirituality. There has been much fun and laughter but also at times frustration and even occasionally despair. We continue to learn from the process as well as from the guests we interview. It has been an enlightening and enriching adventure for us both.

We discuss the challenges and learning experiences we have encountered, the connections we have made with guests from around the world, and the importance of exploring diverse perspectives on faith and spirituality. The conversation also touches on the need to dismantle the Doctrine of Discovery, the role of art in expressing faith, and the exploration of innovative church models that foster community engagement.

Takeaways

• Podcasting has been a learning journey for both hosts.

• Connections with guests have enriched their understanding of faith.

• Dismantling the Doctrine of Discovery is crucial for justice.

• Artistic expression can deepen spiritual experiences.

• Exploring global perspectives broadens understanding of faith.

• The importance of community in spiritual practice.

Melissa Kelly is Christine Sine’s assistant. She has a lifetime of experience with the church and a lifelong interest in learning new things. She has a PhD in Developmental Psychology and was a professor for years. Now she runs her church office and Christine’s podcast.

Episode 51 - The Unexpected Challenges of Launching A Podcast

Episode 50 - Raising Kids Who Care

Today we reached an important milestone on Liturgical Rebels. This is our 50th episode and we are still gaining momentum. Thank you for all who not only listen to the podcast but also share it with friends and family. I have some exciting guests lined up for the coming months, but if you know people that you think would make interesting guests for Liturgical Rebels I would love to hear from you. I am looking for artists, musicians, peacemakers, justice seekers, environmentalists and liturgists from around the world who think and act outside the usual boxes of Christian faith.

In today’s engaging conversation, I interview Susy Lee whose eclectic background, experiences, and eventual embrace of family life led her to write her book, “Raising Kids Who Care.“ This is an inspiring book and I think you will find the interview inspiring too. Here is a sneak preview:

Susy’s book aims to foster meaningful conversations within families about important social issues, encouraging children to be active participants in the world rather than passive observers. Susy emphasizes the importance of community living and how it enriches relationships, particularly for men who often struggle with social connections post-retirement. ‘Raising Kids Who Care‘ is designed to facilitate conversations about character, consumerism, and the impact of technology on children. Susy shares anecdotes about families who have successfully engaged in these conversations, highlighting the transformative power of open dialogue.

Take outs:

• ‘I realized families are not talking about this important stuff.’

• ‘The main goal of the book really is to get families talking about stuff that matters.’

• ‘If we’re not intentional about what we want for our family, the world is going to be.’

• ‘We need to find ways to give our children something to do about the things that are wrong.’

Susy Lee is an international prize winning author, receiving Best Indie, Royal Dragonfly and Feathered Quill Book Awards for ‘Raising Kids Who Care’. An award-winning and eternal student, Susy Lee majored in psychology and has a master’s degree in Peace and Conflict Studies. This helped her consider how parenting and wealth equity play roles in social cohesion. Her eclectic career twirls around the twin themes of social justice and children. It has included state and national consultancy roles with children and families, international aid and development, and advocacy. Susy has lectured at universities and run conference workshops for parents and families. She lives a bike ride from the beach in Sydney, Australia, dances whenever music plays and has raised two caring sons with her generous husband, Brian.

More about Susy and her book can be found at the Raising Kids Who Care website.

Listen here or wherever you get your podcasts.

Episode 50 - Raising Kids Who Care

Give Me A Word With Christine Valters Paintner

Welcome to Liturgical Rebels 2026. This is our third season of introducing you to artists, musicians, poets, environmentalists, scientists, justice seeker and authors from many parts of the globe about their experiences of faith. Many have deconstructed and reconstructed their faith, often seeking a broader understanding of the great God of the universe who is far more expansive that we can ever imagine. They have certainly enriched my understanding of what it means to be a follower of Jesus and expanded my image of God who is present in all things throughout our cosmos.

In 2026 we will continue this exploration of faith and its many dimensions of expression which can enrich and strengthen our own faith. We will once again introduce you to people from diverse backgrounds and perspectives on faith and life. There will be artists, and musicians, theologians and spiritual directors. They will come from parts of the globe, but all have one thing in common. We are all spiritual seekers desiring to encounter the great God of the universe through our interactions with each other, and with with creation.

In today’s episode I will be in conversation with Christine Valters Paintner focusing on her new book Give Me a Word. I (Christine Sine) have known Christine for many years and am always delighted when she writes another book which always enriches my life.

Christine is a Benedictine oblate and the online Abbess at Abbey of the Arts, a virtual monastery integrating contemplative practice and creative expression. She is a poet and the author of more than 20 books on the spiritual life. Her newest book is Give Me A Word. Christine lives on the wild edges of Ireland with her husband John and dog Sourney, where they lead online programs for a global community.In this enlightening conversation, Christine Valters-Paintner shares her insights on the contemplative practices that foster spiritual growth and creativity with Christine Sine. She discusses her book ‘Give Me a Word’, which encourages individuals to seek a guiding word for the year, drawing from the rich traditions of monasticism and the expressive arts. Christine emphasizes the importance of listening with the heart, the significance of doorways as symbols of transition, and the transformative power of creative practices. The discussion also touches on the communal aspect of personal growth and how the insights gained can be shared for the benefit of others.

Here is a sneak preview of this episode

Give Me A Word With Christine Valters Paintner

Takeaways

• The ‘Give Me a Word’ practice is rooted in the desert monastic tradition.

• Listening with the heart is essential for spiritual growth.

• Doorways symbolize transitions and new possibilities in life.

• Creative practices can help embody and integrate spiritual insights.

• Community plays a vital role in personal transformation.

• The journey of spiritual growth is ongoing and requires reflection

Christine Valters Paintner is a Benedictine oblate and the online Abbess at Abbey of the Arts, a virtual monastery integrating contemplative practice and creative expression. She is a poet and the author of more than 20 books on the spiritual life, including A Midwinter God: Encountering the Divine in Seasons of Darkness. Her newest book is Give me a Word: The Promise of an Ancient Practice to Guide ?Your Year. Christine lives on the wild edges of Ireland with her husband John and dog Sourney, where they lead online programs for a global community.

Give Me A Word With Christine Valters Paintner

You can find more about Christine Valters Paintner and her work at AbbeyoftheArts.com Transformative Living through Contemplative and Expressive Arts

Goodbye to 2025 and Welcome to 2026 with Christine and Tom Sine

Happy New Year!

It is the last day of 2025 here in Seattle. In Australia and New Zealand it is already 2026. I It seems to be so strange to both look forward and look back on this arbitrary date that in many ways has no relevance at all. However the mere act of looking back and reflecting on the year and then looking forward to next year lays important foundations for all of us. It encourages to move forward with faith and hope in spite of the challenges ahead.

Today’s Liturgical episode is short. Tom turns 90 next year, and his seminal book The Mustard Seed Conspiracy was written 45 years ago. In this episode, Tom and I reflect together on lessons from the past and themes in our work that help us look to the future. Tom’s memory may be fading and sometimes he does not remember who I am and what we are doing, but passion to motivate Christians and churches to get out in front of this changing world and help shape the world Christ envisioned has not faded. He is still concerned about the future of our young people and how we can enable them to free up time and resource in be involved in becoming change makers. Christ is calling us to a world of meaning and meaningful living beyond the current consumer culture.

Goodbye to 2025 and Welcome to 2026 with Christine and Tom Sine

Advent Down Under With Mark Pierson

Mark Pierson is one of my favourite people. He taught me a lot about worship and gave me the freedom to be creative and break down some of my barriers to what it means to be a worship creator and curator.

In this third Advent conversation, Mark Pierson and I discuss the unique aspects of Advent and Christmas worship in the Southern Hemisphere, particularly in New Zealand. We explore the challenges and creative approaches to integrating local culture and indigenous practices into the liturgical calendar. Mark shares insights on how to make Advent a meaningful and reflective season, emphasizing the importance of community and creativity in worship. We also recommend resources for enhancing the Advent experience and reflect on the deeper meanings of the season.

Takeaways

• Mark describes himself as a garden variety pastor.

• Advent marks the start of summer in New Zealand and a busy time with many people going on holiday.

• Mark emphasizes the need to model a different way of being during Advent.

• Advent is a time for reflection and creativity.

• The essence of celebrations should be reclaimed and rooted in reality.

• Mark shares the importance of care when incorporating indigenous practices in worship.

• Resources like the 2-minute Advent video can enhance understanding.

Mark Pierson is passionate about designing worship events and spaces that enable people, inside and outside the church, to engage with the Trinitarian community of God in creative, life-giving, formative and transformative ways. He is an accredited minister of the Baptist Churches in New Zealand, and over the last 25 years has developed the model of worship curator for the design of worship events. In that time he has written extensively, curated worship events, and led seminars in churches, institutions and festivals around the world on the integration of the arts, faith, and justice using the worship curation model.

His 2010 book “The Art of Curating Worship: Reshaping the role of worship leader”, is his contribution to this discussion of how God can speak through art.

Mark currently curates a weekly worship event, Rhythms of Grace, in Auckland, focused on spiritual formation.

First Nations Perspective with Terry Wildman

I have been dying for this episode to go live. I have enjoyed reading both the First Nation’s New Testament that Terry edited and also his children’s book Birth of the Chosen One with beautiful illustrations by Hannah and Holly Buchanan, artists, twin sisters and members of the Miami Nation of Indiana.

In this conversation, Terry Wildman shares his journey as a Native American leader and translator of the First Nations New Testament. We discuss the importance of language and culture in understanding faith, the process of translating biblical texts to resonate with Native peoples, and the significance of storytelling in conveying spiritual truths. Wildman emphasizes the need for cultural sensitivity in language, particularly in translating terms like ‘church’ to better reflect Native values and experiences. He also introduces his Christmas book, Birth of the Chosen One, which started as part of the First Nations New Testament. Its interpretation on the Nativity story highlights the importance of names and cultural connections in a narrative.

Takeaways

• Languages are important to God and reflect His creation.

• Salvation is about restoration and healing.

• Our understanding of faith is enriched by experiences different cultures.

• Translation must resonate with the cultural context of the audience.

• The word ‘church’ carries historical baggage for Native peoples.

• Storytelling is a powerful tool for sharing spiritual truths.

• Embracing diversity in faith leads to a richer understanding of God.

Listen here or wherever you get your podcasts: First Nations Perspective with Terry Wildman

Terry M. Wildman (Ojibwe and Yaqui) is the lead translator, general editor, and project manager of the First Nations Version. He serves as the director of spiritual growth and leadership development for Native InterVarsity. He is also the founder of Rain Ministries and has previously served as a pastor and worship leader. He and his wife, Darlene, live in Arizona. The second book from the project First Nations Version Psalms and Proverbs is now available. Learn more about the translation council and process at firstnationsversion.com.

Advent in Palestine with Kelley Nikondeha

Advent begins next Sunday and I am delighted to be able to usher it in with this wonderful interview with Kelley Nikondeha, author of The First Advent in Palestine: Reversals, Resistance, and the Ongoing Complexity of Hope which I used last year for Advent.

In this conversation, Christine Sine and Kelley Nikondeha explore the intersections of liberation theology, the role of women in faith, and the realities of the Advent season. They discuss the importance of understanding the historical and cultural context of biblical narratives, particularly focusing on the figure of Mary and the significance of community and hospitality in the birth of Jesus. The conversation emphasizes the need to confront trauma and suffering in order to cultivate genuine hope and transformation in our lives and communities.

Takeaways

• Liberation theology is deeply rooted in personal experiences and community work.

• Women play a crucial role in both biblical narratives and contemporary faith practices.

• The Advent season should reflect the harsh realities of human suffering.

• Mary represents a figure of rebellion and strength against societal norms.

• Understanding the land and its history can deepen our comprehension of biblical stories.

• Community and hospitality are essential in the narrative of Jesus’ birth.

• Trauma and loss are integral to the human experience, including Jesus’ life.

• The concept of Jubilee offers a framework for addressing economic injustices.

• Hope and transformation arise from acknowledging and lamenting suffering.

Kelley Nikondeha is a theologian, feminist, Co-Director of Communities of Hope, a community development enterprise in Burundi, Co-founder of Amahoro Africa, and the the author of forth-coming Jubilee Economics: The Purpose, Practices, & Possibilities for a Better Future (Orbis, November 2025); The First Advent in Palestine: Reversals, Resistance, and the Ongoing Complexity of Hope (Academy of Parish Clergy Top 10 for 2022); DEFIANT: What the Women of Exodus Teach Us about Freedom (Academy of Parish Clergy 2021 Book of the Year); And ADOPTED: The Sacrament of Belonging in a Fractured World (Christianity Today 2018 Award of Merit for Christian Living / Discipleship).

Advent in Palestine with Kelley Nikondeha

Find out more about Christine Sine on
Walking In Wonder on Substack
and on her website Godspacelight
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