I feel uniquely qualified to give this TED Talk.

Not because I’m a financial advisor, I’m very much the opposite.

Between being an overspender and having ADHD, I would estimate that approximately 80% of the time, the ADHD impulse demon is standing behind me whispering, “Buy it,” and then I blink and somehow I’ve spent $1,000.

So yes, I have bought things that were absolutely not worth it. I have returned things. I have forgotten to return things and paid the fuck-ass ADHD tax. I have purchased things completely by accident and then decided I liked them enough to keep them.

But this also means I’ve become extremely opinionated about the things that ARE worth paying for.

And that’s what we’re talking about this week: the things I will happily spend money on in my life, the business investments I would make again without thinking twice, and—because apparently we’re doing the BTL version of Oprah’s Favorite Things—the things from my own shop that I genuinely think give you the most bang for your buck.

This is NOT a comprehensive list because ADHDers cannot legally be held responsible for comprehensive lists. I will inevitably remember seventeen more things approximately four minutes after this episode publishes.

The Squirrel Brain Questions 🐿️

This is a solo episode, so there are technically no official squirrel questions, but I did accidentally answer several deeply important ones anyway.

What’s the difference between the ADHD tax and the ADHD premium?

The ADHD tax is the money you lose because you forgot to do something.

You didn’t return the thing. You forgot the parking ticket. You missed the deadline. You accidentally ordered something because it had been sitting in your Amazon cart for a month and you clicked “buy everything.”

The ADHD premium is when you know yourself well enough to pay more upfront so Future You doesn’t fuck it up.

Hiring the mover. Paying annually instead of remembering twelve payments. Outsourcing the thing you know will otherwise sit untouched for six months.

Frankly, I am PRO premium.

What’s the best $57 I’ve ever spent?

The Crown Affair hair towel.

I own three. I am considering buying another one simply because talking about it has fired me up again.

If wet hair touching your body makes you want to crawl out of your skin, you’re welcome.

What purchase did I make entirely by accident and end up loving?

My OpenShokz headphones.

They sat in my Amazon cart for a month, I accidentally purchased the entire cart, briefly thought “Wow, that was expensive” and apparently did ZERO further investigation.

Then they arrived and I was like...

Oh.

I actually wanted these.

What is my most controversial financial opinion?

First-class flights are worth it.

THERE. I SAID IT.

Not every flight. I’m not paying $10,000 to lie horizontally for six hours.

But if I’m going to Europe once a year, I have points, my 16-inch laptop doesn’t fit anywhere, and I can spend seven hours sleeping instead of sitting upright with somebody else’s elbow inside my rib cage?

Everything I want wants me more.

Sometimes the Thing That’s “Worth It” Is Just the Thing That Makes Your Life Better

Let’s start with possibly my hottest take: Rent is worth your money.

I don’t give a flying fuck how many people tell you you’re “throwing money away.”

And I say this as somebody who owns a house.

You know what I’ve paid for since becoming a homeowner?

• A $10,000 boiler.

• A $2,000 water heater.

• A $3,800 oil tank.

And those are just the things my house apparently decided were EMERGENCIES.

There is this weird societal morality attached to home ownership where buying a house means you’ve succeeded and renting means you’re somehow behind, and I genuinely hate it.

I recently ran into somebody I knew from high school, and when I mentioned I’d bought a house, I could physically see her start comparing herself to me because she hadn’t.

And all I could think was...

Girl.

I miss my rent.

I miss not knowing what an oil tank costs. I miss not giving a fuck about my lawn. I miss calling somebody else when something breaks.

At the same time, buying my house is probably the best money I’ve ever spent.

Contradictory? Sure.

But the point isn’t actually whether renting or buying is better.

The point is that your environment is worth spending money on if it meaningfully improves your life.

My environment affects me enormously. The light coming through my windows matters to me. Being able to sit outside matters. My front porch matters.

My best friend rents an apartment in New York and sends me approximately seventeen texts a week about the light coming through her windows and how much she loves her balcony.

She rents. I own.

We both feel exactly the same way about our homes.

That’s the actual metric.

Hiring movers? Worth it.

After-school care that gives me an extra hour and a half without scampering to finish my workday? Worth every penny.

Concert tickets for somebody I genuinely love? Never once regretted them.

Driving twenty minutes further because that Target has better stock and better vibes? I’ll see you there.

Getting my nails done, a blowout, or a Brazilian because those things make me feel more put together when my natural state is Type B-minus? I will use my last diamond dollar.

The older I get, the less interested I am in whether somebody else thinks something is “responsible” to spend money on.

I care whether it meaningfully improves my life.

The Best Business Investments Let Me Stop Doing Things I Shouldn’t Be Doing

This was probably the biggest pattern I noticed when I started listing my favourite business investments.

Almost all of them allow me to hand something to someone who is significantly better at it than I am and say: “God bless. Please take this away from me.”

Bookkeeping is worth every penny because I do not personally trust myself enough with numbers to confidently manage my books, nor do I have any desire to learn.

My website designers are worth every penny because I know what I want something to say, but I do not need to be the person figuring out what it should look like.

Adrienne managing this podcast?

I record, and then I leave the room.

That’s my ideal business relationship.

She edits it, publishes it, writes the description, links everything, and performs whatever other witchcraft is required to turn me yapping into an actual podcast episode.

If I had to edit this podcast myself, there would simply be no podcast.

And then there’s my OBM.

I waited until 2025 to hire one, which in hindsight feels insane because this squirrel desperately needed a squirrel wrangler.

The problem wasn’t necessarily that I wanted to build some giant agency or suddenly had hundreds of employees to manage.

It was the sheer volume of stuff.

Someone needs an invoice.

A coupon code stopped working.

A checkout link broke.

Someone can’t find something.

A launch needs setting up.

A client needs an answer.

And somewhere in the middle of all of those people needing things from me...

I also need things from me.

That’s the part that becomes impossible.

Having Claire there as the net underneath the business means the things I inevitably forget don’t just disappear into the abyss.

But there’s a caveat here that I think matters for ANY team investment: Hiring someone isn’t worth the money if you’re going to hire them and then refuse to let them do anything.

You have to trust them.

You have to give them responsibility.

You have to be willing to loosen your tiny control-freak squirrel paws and let another person actually support you.

Otherwise you’re paying someone while still doing the job yourself, which is objectively the worst of both worlds.

The best business investments I’ve made haven’t just given me more capacity.

They’ve allowed me to spend more of my time doing the things that are actually mine to do.

The Best Investment Isn’t Always the Biggest One

Obviously, if we’re talking about things I think are worth your money, I have to tell you what I think is worth buying from me.

And YES, I know how convenient that sounds.

But I have 20+ things in my resource shop. I’m not going to sit here and tell you every single one is equally right for every single person because... that’s not how buying things works.

If you want the most hands-on website copy support from me without hiring me to write the whole thing, Write Your Site is probably the best investment.

It’s four weeks of live calls where I teach you how to write your Home, About, Services, and Sales pages—and then we actually write them together.

Not “here’s a lesson, good luck, see ya.”

I mean send me the Google Doc. Tell me you have absolutely no fucking clue what your services section should say. We’ll figure it out.

Then you get another four weeks of support and copy feedback afterward, plus Site Series Sprint, my entire self-paced website copywriting course.

If you don’t need the live component, Site Series Sprint is probably the best self-paced bang for your buck. It covers basically every website page you could need, plus the actual sprints that tell you what order to do everything in because giving an ADHDer a giant library of content without telling them where to start is RUDE.

For selling specifically, I think Won’t Sell Itself is massively underrated. You get the sales page training, the sales email training, and the templates for both.

But if the reason you’re not selling isn’t that you don’t know how to write the sales content and is actually that every time you promote something you immediately think, “Oh my God, everybody hates me”...

You need You’re Not Annoying.

Because the best sales page template in the world can’t help you if you’re too afraid to tell anybody it exists.

And then there’s Swipe File, which has recently gone from being a newsletter prompt subscription to something I’m genuinely SO excited about.

You still get the prompts, except now you get the entire library.

You also get the storytelling workshop, monthly co-writing calls, guest experts, extra resources, and—this is the part I think makes $62/month kind of insane—you can submit four emails to me every month for feedback.

Sales email. Newsletter. Welcome sequence. Cold pitch.

If it’s an email, I’ll look at it.

We also play my favourite game on the co-writing calls, Boring Stories, where you give me the most boring thing that happened to you that week and whatever you’re trying to sell, and I connect them.

You bought mustard and need to sell your website course?

Give me thirty seconds.

I fucking LOVE this game.

And because you made it this far, you can use code SWIPERNOSWIPING for 50% off your first month of Swipe File.

Dora would be proud.

POINT OF THE STORY

Pay for what removes friction and brings you joy, and don’t feel guilty about it.

Love you, mean it. 🖤

BTL LINKS

— All of my website copy resources: betweenthelinescopy.com/web-copy

— All of my email marketing resources: betweenthelinescopy.com/email-marketing

— Take my website copywriting course: betweenthelinescopy.com/sprint

— Sponsor this podcast (or my newsletter!): betweenthelinescopy.com/sponsorships

— Follow me on Instagram at instagram.com/btlcopy OR instagram.com/capecodcierge

— Subscribe to my marketing newsletter at www.betweenthelinescopy.com/subscribe

— Subscribe to my ADHD newsletter at bysarajoelle.substack.com

— Subscribe to my copywriter-only newsletter at btlcopy.myflodesk.com/open-loop

— Subscribe to my designer-only newsletter at btlcopy.myflodesk.com/for-designers

— Check out my website at www.betweenthelinescopy.com

OTHER LINKS

— Odd Creatives

— Claire (OBM)

— My YouTube channel

— Crown Affair Hair Towel

— Madison Dearly Financial

— Sarah Kleist / Kleist Creative

— Alice Björkstrand’s FLOW Program

— Knix

— Shokz OpenRun Pro Headphones

— Swipe File

— Short Story waitlist

— Write Your Site waitlist

— Past episodes: How to Actually Buy a House Without Crying with Alli Moore, Meta Ads For People Who’ve Been Avoiding This Conversation with Alice Björkstrand, Everything You Want to Know About Meta Ads (Juicier Version) with Alice Björkstrand [BONUS]

I have a question.

When did we lose the ability to just... think about things?

Not announce a stance. Not write a thesis statement. Not come prepared with three peer-reviewed sources and an ironclad argument that can withstand a stranger on Threads intentionally misunderstanding you.

Because lately I’ve realised there are a LOT of things rattling around inside my brain that I want to talk about, but I don’t necessarily have a conclusion for them yet.

And apparently the internet hates that.

Everything has to be an opinion and you have to pick a side. You need to defend it. And God forbid you change your mind after learning something new, because somebody has a screenshot from 2019 ready to prove you’re a hypocrite.

Meanwhile, I’m over here like... Can we bring back discourse???

Can I say, “This is something I’ve been thinking about, and I understand both sides, and I don’t actually know where I land yet”?

Because my ADHD brain cannot be trusted with this many open tabs.

So recently, I started literally opening my journal, writing “Things I’m Thinking About” at the top of the page, and dumping them all out. Sometimes there’s an argument. Sometimes there’s a question. Sometimes there’s half a thought and then I move on because I have absolutely no intention of completing it.

It has been SO freeing.

Which brings us to this episode.

These are just some of the things I’m thinking about lately, presented without a required conclusion and with an explicit request that nobody cancel me before we reach the end.

The Squirrel Brain Questions 🐿️

There is no guest this week, which means unfortunately I am both interviewer and interviewee.

So let’s rapid-fire some deeply important information we learned about me during this episode.

What have I been Googling lately? An at-home IV nurse because I was approximately three minutes from becoming BTL Corpse, butterfly crackers because they were one of the only foods I could eat, ten restaurants, and the Love Island season eight reunion.

What random question apparently needed immediate investigation? Why do we call them ears of corn?

I Googled the answer during the episode, read the explanation aloud, and somehow understood LESS afterwards.

What do I secretly want to be when I grow up? A painter.

Am I particularly good at painting? No.

Can I paint a cartoon old sailor? Unfortunately, yes.

Do I still want to take a painting class and become an ARTIST? Deeply.

And what am I apparently willing to purchase for strangers on the internet?

A diary.

Can We Please Be Allowed to Have Nuanced Conversations Again?

This whole episode started because I’ve noticed how many topics I avoid talking about publicly because I don’t have a perfectly formed stance on them.

Weight loss was the first one that came to mind.

And before anyone starts typing...This is EXACTLY what I mean.

There are so many conversations happening simultaneously around bodies, health, weight loss, GLP-1s, eating disorders, body positivity, fitness, confidence, and what “healthy” even means that it feels almost impossible to say anything without someone deciding what you secretly meant.

You can understand why certain conversations are genuinely triggering for people while ALSO wondering whether we’ve reached a point where nuance has become impossible.

Multiple things can be true at the same time.

And I think that’s what I’m actually interested in here.

We’ve created an internet where every thought seems to require a disclaimer, and yet... maybe some things genuinely DO need disclaimers.

I don’t know!

I actually think transparency around things like privilege, AI use, or interventions that materially affect the results somebody is presenting can be useful. If you’re telling me how you built your business, I’d love to know whether you started with $100,000 in savings. If you’re teaching me how you created something, I’d like to know whether AI created 80% of it.

Context matters, but I also don’t think every human thought should require a legal defence before we’re allowed to say it.

Maybe the answer isn’t fewer conversations.

Maybe it’s getting comfortable having conversations that don’t end with everybody agreeing.

I Think I Need to Make More Room for Things That Don’t Make Me Money.

I’ve also been thinking a LOT about focus lately.

Specifically, what would happen if I went completely all-in on one platform for a month.

What if YouTube were my only job?

What if I gave Instagram my full attention?

What if I actually learned LinkedIn instead of periodically remembering it exists?

I don’t rely heavily on social media for my business, which is both a massive privilege and also means I never HAVE to give one platform my full attention. I can bounce between Instagram, Threads, newsletters, YouTube, the podcast, client work, courses, memberships, mentoring, and approximately seventeen other things depending on which personality has control of my brain that day.

I like it that way.

I need to code-switch like I need oxygen.

But watching someone else start an Instagram account from zero and genuinely study it—trying different formats, following trends, figuring out what works—has made me wonder what would happen if I actually gave one thing that level of attention.

Which then led me to another thing I’m thinking about:

Making art again.

Summer gives me this ridiculous amount of creative space. I took eight weeks off this year when I originally planned to take six, and I could honestly take another two because I am deeply unwell about Cape Cod summer ending.

But when normal life starts again, art is always the first thing to disappear.

And I keep telling myself I “don’t have time” for a painting class. Which is bullshit.

I have time, I’m just not prioritising it.

The more uncomfortable question is WHY I don’t prioritise it.

I’m extremely comfortable asking for help when the thing I’m doing is important for work. If there’s a client commitment or something that makes money, of course I’ll figure out childcare.

But asking someone to pick up my kid because...

I want to paint?

Suddenly my brain goes, “Absolutely not. We must save our requests for IMPORTANT THINGS.”

Except why isn’t creativity important?

Why isn’t making something badly just because I enjoy it important?

Why isn’t my sanity important?

I don’t have a beautiful conclusion here where I tell you I’ve enrolled in pottery and transformed my life.

I haven’t.

I’m just thinking about it.

And maybe that’s the point.

Some Things Belong on the Internet. Some Things Belong in Your Diary.

Okay.

THIS ONE I HAVE A CONCLUSION ABOUT.

Please buy a diary.

I’m begging.

Because I keep seeing people post things online that actively work against the life or business they’re supposedly trying to create.

Talking shit about clients while trying to attract new clients.

Posting constantly about nobody hiring them while asking people to hire them.

Sharing every friendship conflict, relationship argument, business struggle, financial panic, client issue, and mildly inconvenient human interaction with the entire internet.

Girl.

Journal.

And I’m not saying you have to become some sanitised LinkedIn robot who only posts “I’m thrilled to announce...”

God forbid.

I’m probably one of the least professional people you’ll meet, and I think vulnerability and honesty are two of the best things about the internet.

But there is a difference between vulnerability and treating Threads like your Notes app after three margaritas.

I learned this lesson years ago when I was in a sorority and was responsible for getting everyone to attend the philanthropy events we were required to go to.

Nobody wanted to go.

Everybody wanted to complain to me about it.

So eventually I bought the ENTIRE SORORITY diaries and told them that from now on, if they had a complaint about having to attend an event, they could write it in there instead of telling me.

And honestly?

I stand by that leadership decision.

There is also a bigger conversation underneath this about discipline.

I think we’ve gotten so good at giving ourselves grace that sometimes we’ve forgotten it’s also okay to tell ourselves:

No.

Do the thing.

Go to the event.

Finish the work.

Get off your phone.

Use your brain for two minutes before you post.

You can have compassion for yourself AND expectations for yourself.

Again: multiple things can be true.

And maybe that’s actually the theme of this entire episode.

POINT OF THE STORY

This whole episode is permission to have a thought without needing an ending for it. I journal these things instead of letting them sit in my brain as open tabs my ADHD can’t close, and I’m passing that along to you. Start conversations you don’t know the endings to. Bring back discourse for the sake of it. It’s chill to not have a conclusion.

Love you, mean it. 🖤

BTL LINKS

— All of my website copy resources:

betweenthelinescopy.com/web-copy

— All of my email marketing resources:

betweenthelinescopy.com/email-marketing

— Take my website copywriting course:

betweenthelinescopy.com/sprint

— Sponsor this podcast (or my newsletter!):

betweenthelinescopy.com/sponsorships

— Follow me on Instagram at

instagram.com/btlcopy

OR

instagram.com/capecodcierge

— Subscribe to my marketing newsletter at

www.betweenthelinescopy.com/subscribe

— Subscribe to my ADHD newsletter at

bysarajoelle.substack.com

— Subscribe to my copywriter-only newsletter at

btlcopy.myflodesk.com/open-loop

— Subscribe to my designer-only newsletter at

btlcopy.myflodesk.com/for-designers

— Check out my website at

www.betweenthelinescopy.com

OTHER LINKS

— This week’s newsletter: “BTL Copy Was Almost BTL Corpse”

— Episode with Sarah Kleist: Switcheroo Series Ep. 1: Doubling Your Revenue, Design vs. Copy, and the Cape Cod Instagram Lore (with Sarah Kleist)

This episode was edited by Adrienne Cruz.

You work online, your friends are online, and your clients are online.

Your coworker is either a woman in another country you’ve never met, but somehow you still refer to her as your coworker, or your dog. There’s really no inbetween.

And, same.

So when someone tells you to “go network,” it immediately conjures up an image of standing awkwardly in a conference room full of men in navy suits while someone hands you a stale cracker and asks for your elevator pitch.

That sounds like my personal hell.

Which is exactly why I wanted to have marketing strategist, Andrea Shah, on the podcast this week.

Because networking doesn’t have to look like that.

Some of the best business relationships you’ll ever build happen because you simply got your booty out of your house and talked to another human being.

The squirrel brain questions 🐿️

Before we talked networking, obviously we had to cover the important topics.

If she could gather “nuts” like a squirrel: Spices and candles. Specifically enough candles that she’s one TJ Maxx trip away from becoming the “spend less on candles” meme.

If she had to get a phrase tattooed on her face: “You don’t have to like it... but you do have to do it.” Which might be the most relatable gym motto I’ve ever heard.

I complain all the way to kickboxing, then when I get there, suddenly I’m setting personal records.

Sometimes complaining is just part of the warm-up.

What would be in the museum gift shop dedicated to her: Custom tea blends. Which somehow turned into a conversation about homemade chai, emergency kitchen candles, and me forcing Andrea to send me her husband’s family recipe.

(The chai recipe is in the podcast description)

Her walkout song: Murder on the Dancefloor.

Perfect choice.

Networking isn’t about finding clients.

It’s about finding people.

I think this is where so many online business owners get stuck, because they assume networking only “counts” if the person standing in front of them is their ideal client.

If they aren’t...What’s the point?

But one of my favourite things Andrea said was that sometimes the person you’re talking to doesn’t need your service.

But maybe their cousin does.

Or their business partner.

Or the person they have coffee with every Thursday morning.

Or maybe...

Neither of them need what you do at all.

Maybe you just made a business friend who understands exactly what it’s feels like to run a business.

That still has value.

One of my closest local friendships started because I accidentally joined my Chamber of Commerce years ago.

I didn’t join looking for a best friend.

I joined because I thought maybe I’d meet a client.

Instead, I accidentally built a community.

Sometimes networking gives you referrals and sometimes it gives you people.

Both are worth leaving the house for.

Everyone is waiting for someone else to say hello.

I think the biggest misconception about networking events is that everyone else knows exactly what they’re doing.

Spoiler alert: They don’t.

Most people are standing there hoping someone walks over and starts the conversation first.

Andrea shared one of my new favourite networking hacks: Wear something memorable.

A bright jacket.

A fun pair of glasses.

A ridiculous handbag.

Anything that gives someone an easy excuse to say: “Oh my gosh, I love your...”

Instant conversation starter.

And if you’re the nervous one?

Here’s the good news: There are people exactly like me wandering around every networking event looking for the person standing awkwardly in the corner.

I physically cannot leave them alone.

My second-hand embarrassment won’t let me.

So if you’re worried you’re going to stand there by yourself all night...

Trust me.

Some extrovert squirrel is already making their way toward you.

Nobody is thinking about you as much as you are.

This might’ve been my favourite part of the conversation.

Andrea said something that every anxious business owner needs tattooed somewhere:

You are not the main character in everyone else’s evening.

People aren’t driving home replaying the slightly awkward thing you said.

They’re driving home replaying the slightly awkward thing they said.

We’re all starring in our own movies.

Which means you get a lot more freedom than you think.

If you accidentally interrupt someone...

If your joke doesn’t land...

If you completely blank on what someone does for work five seconds after they tell you...

Congratulations.

You’re a human.

Nobody’s keeping score.

(Except maybe your own brain, which is notoriously dramatic.)

POINT OF THE STORY

Networking isn’t the old-boys-club elevator pitch you’re picturing. It’s wearing something bold, asking a good question, and remembering that nobody’s replaying your awkward moment the way you are. Go talk to someone!!!

Love you, mean it. 🖤

ANDREA LINKS

— Follow Andrea on Instagram and Threads

— Check out her website

— Grab her freebie

— Her walkout song

BTL LINKS

— All of my website copy resources: betweenthelinescopy.com/web-copy

— All of my email marketing resources: betweenthelinescopy.com/email-marketing

— Take my website copywriting course: betweenthelinescopy.com/sprint

— Sponsor this podcast (or my newsletter!): betweenthelinescopy.com/sponsorships

— Follow me on Instagram at instagram.com/btlcopy OR instagram.com/capecodcierge

— Subscribe to my marketing newsletter at www.betweenthelinescopy.com/subscribe

— Subscribe to my ADHD newsletter at bysarajoelle.substack.com

— Subscribe to my copywriter-only newsletter at btlcopy.myflodesk.com/open-loop

— Subscribe to my designer-only newsletter at btlcopy.myflodesk.com/for-designers

— Check out my website at www.betweenthelinescopy.com

OTHER LINKS

— Blog post: 3 Reasons Why AI Copywriting Won’t Replace Humans

— Past episode: Episode 49: If You Want A Village, You Have To Be A Villager

This episode was edited by Adrienne Cruz.

Every few episodes on Point of the Story, I’m handing the microphone to someone else.

Mostly because I spend a lot of time asking other people weird questions, and I figured it was only fair that someone got to return the favour.

This week, that someone was copywriter, theatre kid, and professional instigator Kalyl.

Over the course of our time together, I somehow admitted to:

• accidentally Venmo-ing myself money from someone else’s phone,

• getting a matching tattoo with a man I met in Arizona,

• why I think inanimate objects have feelings,

• and my deeply concerning emotional attachment to Lightning McQueen.

I think we understood the assignment.

The squirrel brain questions 🐿️

Have you ever kissed a girl and liked it? No.

Not because I was opposed to the idea, but mainly because the opportunity never really presented itself.

You’re on death row. What’s the crime and what’s your last meal?

Apparently...I stabbed someone.

To be clear: I have never stabbed anyone.

But according to my own imagination, if I ever ended up on death row, that’s probably how I’d get there.

My last meal would be every blueberry chai latte from every café I love.

Brownie batter and an entire tub of chocolate frosting.

Notice how there’s no actual food, just sugar and poor decision making.

If you weren’t a copywriter...

I’d be a painter and not just someone who paints, someone with a gallery.

People would pretend to understand my work and I’d pretend to help them figure it out, and I’d wear linen.

It would all be very serious work.

Apparently I’m an expert in... painting with chai lattes.

One of my favourite parts of the episode was when Kalyl made me play an improv game.

He introduced me as the world’s leading expert in painting with blueberry chai lattes.

So naturally...I explained my artistic process.

You remove the straw.

You splatter the chai.

You honour the coffee ring left by the cup.

You let the beverage lead you.

By the end of it I was trying to convince myself this was actually a viable business model.

I’ve had worse ideas.

The story that still gives me second-hand embarrassment.

Kalyl asked me what the most embarrassing moment of my life was.

The funny thing is...I don’t really get embarrassed.

Second-hand embarrassment, however, absolutely cripples me.

I shared a story from high school that still makes me physically recoil every time I think about it.

Not because of what happened to me, but because of what happened to somebody else.

I’m not going to spoil it here because I think hearing me tell it is about 400% funnier than reading it.

But just know...

I haven’t recovered.

And I don’t think I ever will.

My favourite business question.

Somewhere between the tattoo stories and Lightning McQueen lore...

Kalyl asked me something I actually adored.

He wanted to know what I’d do if I had his business.

So we ended up workshopping new offers, corporate workshops, digital products, pricing, positioning...

Basically an accidental live strategy session.

It reminded me how much I love seeing someone else’s business from the outside.

Sometimes you’re standing so close to your own work that you can’t see the obvious next step anymore.

Someone else usually can.

POINT OF THE STORY

Embarrassment is a choice, and I’m not choosing it, but secondhand embarrassment? That one gets me every time.

Love you, mean it. 🖤

KALYL LINKS

— Follow Kalyl on Instagram and Threads

— Check out his website

— Subscribe to his newsletter

BTL LINKS

— All of my website copy resources: betweenthelinescopy.com/web-copy

— All of my email marketing resources: betweenthelinescopy.com/email-marketing

— Take my website copywriting course: betweenthelinescopy.com/sprint

— Sponsor this podcast (or my newsletter!): betweenthelinescopy.com/sponsorships

— Follow me on Instagram at instagram.com/btlcopy

OR

instagram.com/capecodcierge

— Subscribe to my marketing newsletter at www.betweenthelinescopy.com/subscribe

— Subscribe to my ADHD newsletter at bysarajoelle.substack.com

— Subscribe to my copywriter-only newsletter at btlcopy.myflodesk.com/open-loop

— Subscribe to my designer-only newsletter at btlcopy.myflodesk.com/for-designers

— Check out my website at www.betweenthelinescopy.com

OTHER LINKS

— Switcheroo Series Ep. 1: Doubling Your Revenue, Design vs. Copy, and the Cape Cod Instagram Lore (with Sarah Kleist)

— Switcheroo Series Ep. 2: Switcheroo Series Ep. 2: Audacity, People Pleasing, Confidence, Threads Icks, and That One Time I Threatened to Sue Walmart

— The Odd Creatives

— Caitie Cupples Creative

— Adrienne’s newsletter, Sounds Like Brunch

— Into the Blue by Emma Brodie

This episode was edited by Adrienne Cruz.

One of my favourite things about interviewing people on the podcast is that I usually walk away questioning something I thought I already believed.

This week was one of those episodes.

I sat down with messaging and growth strategist, Natalie, to talk about selling with a small audience, fully expecting we’d spend most of the conversation talking about visibility.

Instead...We spent most of it talking about messaging.

Because as Natalie pointed out, there are people making multiple six figures from an email list of fewer than 500 people.

And there are people with 20,000 followers wondering why nobody’s buying.

Turns out, audience size isn’t always the problem.

Rapid-fire squirrel brain questions 🐿️

Here’s all the fun things we learned about Jemilla:

If she could gather “nuts” like a squirrel: Literally nuts. Brazil nuts. Specifically with dark chocolate and a really good coffee.

If she had to get a phrase tattooed on her face: “Add to pasta.”

It’s written in Natalie’s nana’s handwriting and came from a random note she found scribbled in the margin of an old recipe book after she passed away.

What would be in the museum gift shop dedicated to her: Handmade ceramic mugs because she’s become a pottery girl.

Her walkout song: Apparently British people hear “walkout song” and think I’m asking what should be played at their funeral.

Natalie thought I meant the song you’d play while dramatically leaving your partner.

Which, honestly, also deserves its own playlist.

Her answer: “Caught Out There” by Kelis

Showing up for the few.

One of the first things Natalie said completely shifted how I think about small audiences.

She said the goal isn’t to obsess over getting bigger numbers.

It’s to show up for the few.

She shared a story about launching a $500 pop-up offer that only attracted around ten people. This is hardly the kind of launch that gets screenshot and posted on Instagram.

Except...

Those ten people became repeat clients. That tiny offer generated around $65,000 in revenue over the following year because she poured everything into helping those first clients get incredible results.

Sometimes we’re so busy chasing more people...We stop taking care of the people already standing in front of us.

Stop selling the vegan bakery.

This might have been my favourite analogy ever.

Natalie told me about a vegan bakery near her that closed down.

Not because the pastries weren’t good, but because all of their messaging was: “We’re a vegan bakery.”

Nobody wakes up craving a vegan bakery.

They wake up craving a buttery croissant.

So instead of leading with: “We sell vegan croissants.”

Lead with: “Croissants so buttery you’d never know they’re butter-free.”

The same concept applies to service providers.

Nobody wakes up thinking: “I really hope I hire a copywriter today.”

• They want more enquiries.

• More confidence.

• More sales.

• Less stress.

The copywriter is just how they get there.

Your audience doesn’t want your service.

They want what’s on the other side of it.

This is where I think so many service providers get stuck.

They spend all their time talking about what they do.

Meanwhile...

Their audience is thinking: “Can somebody please make my business easier?”

Those aren’t the same conversation.

Natalie calls this finding your client’s “basic bitch desire.”

The thing they’d admit to their best friend.

The thought they’re having before they’ve even opened Instagram that morning.

That’s the conversation your marketing should join.

Your email list doesn’t have to get bigger.

It might just need to stop being beige.

Natalie said the worst email isn’t the one people unsubscribe from.

It’s the one everyone opens...

Thinks, “That was nice.”

...and immediately forgets.

Just beige.

She teaches two jobs for email marketing:

First, anchor people.

Help them feel like they’re in the right place.

Then...Activate them.

Because both are movement.

The only thing you don’t want is someone quietly sitting on your email list forever because nothing you say is memorable enough to make them choose either option.

POINT OF THE STORY

Speak to your all-in buyers. Don’t waste your time trying to educate people into being ready — all that does is send the people who are ready today straight to your competitor. Act like they already want it!

Love you, mean it. 🖤

NATALIE LINKS

— Follow Natalie on Instagram

— Tune in to her private podcast, Double Your Demand (A free private podcast that shows you how to make weekly sales your new standard - so you can stop relying on make-or-break launches)

— Her walkout song

BTL LINKS

— All of my website copy resources:

betweenthelinescopy.com/web-copy

— All of my email marketing resources:

betweenthelinescopy.com/email-marketing

— Take my website copywriting course:

betweenthelinescopy.com/sprint

— Sponsor this podcast (or my newsletter!):

betweenthelinescopy.com/sponsorships

— Follow me on Instagram at

instagram.com/btlcopy

OR

instagram.com/capecodcierge

— Subscribe to my marketing newsletter at

www.betweenthelinescopy.com/subscribe

— Subscribe to my ADHD newsletter at

bysarajoelle.substack.com

— Subscribe to my copywriter-only newsletter at

btlcopy.myflodesk.com/open-loop

— Subscribe to my designer-only newsletter at

btlcopy.myflodesk.com/for-designers

— Check out my website at

www.betweenthelinescopy.com

This episode was edited by Adrienne Cruz.

Every morning, I accidentally choose my new personality.

Am I going to be the productive business owner who sits at her desk for sixteen hours straight and forgets she has legs?

Am I going to be the content creator who’s somehow on Instagram every time she picks up her phone?

Or am I going to become the Writer™ who fills pages of a notebook, has seventeen business ideas before breakfast, and suddenly remembers she’s a creative person?

The weird part is...I don’t consciously choose any of those versions of myself.

I just choose what I do first. And then, somehow, that becomes the entire vibe of my day.

After noticing this pattern over and over again, I did what any reasonable person would do.

I disappeared down a neuroscience rabbit hole until I either found proof I was right or accidentally became a neuroscientist.

Spoiler alert: I found proof.

And now I’m about to ruin your mornings forever. You’re welcome.

The Squirrel Brain Questions

Today’s guest is, unfortunately...

My ADHD.

She arrived late, forgot why she came, interrupted me seven times, and somehow still managed to teach me something.

Her favourite hobby is convincing me that reorganising my Notion workspace is a productive substitute for answering emails.

Her walkout song is probably just the sound of seventeen browser tabs opening simultaneously.

And if she had a catchphrase, it’d be: “We should definitely do the important thing...”

“...right after we research the history of Victorian door knockers.”

She’s exhausting.

Your Brain Chooses A Reward Pathway Before You’re Fully Awake

Here’s the part that absolutely blew my mind.

When you first wake up, your brain is still transitioning from sleep. Your prefrontal cortex, the part responsible for planning, decision-making, and generally acting like an adult, isn’t fully online yet. It’s basically rubbing its eyes and asking for coffee.

(Which my prefrontal cortex will never receive because I think coffee tastes like hot bean water. Sorry to everyone I’ve offended.)

During this window, your brain is incredibly impressionable.

Neuroscientists call it attentional priming, but what it really means is this:

Whatever you touch first leaves a deep imprint on your brain.

Open your email? Your brain decides productivity is the mission for the day.

Open Instagram? Congratulations. You’re now a full-time content consumer until approximately bedtime.

Start journaling? Your brain suddenly remembers it’s creative.

The first thing you do isn’t just the first thing you do.

It’s the thing your brain starts chasing for the next several hours.

ADHD Brains Don’t Care What’s Important

They care what’s interesting.

People love to tell ADHDers to “just prioritise.”

Unfortunately my brain isn’t asking: “What’s most important?”

It’s asking: “What’s going to give me dopamine the fastest?”

Those are very different questions.

Most neurotypical brains can prioritise based on deadlines, importance, or logic.

ADHD brains prioritise based on novelty, interest, urgency, and dopamine.

Which means the first dopamine hit of the morning becomes incredibly important.

If your first hit is scrolling social media, your brain goes: “Amazing. Apparently this is what keeps us alive now.”

And then it spends the rest of the day trying to recreate that feeling.

It’s giving caveman.

And Your Brain Hates Changing Its Mind

Something else I learned that made me feel deeply attacked: Switching tasks has a metabolic cost.

Your brain literally burns energy every time you redirect your attention.

Can somebody please explain why every time I learn something new about ADHD there’s another cost?

Executive function cost.

Decision fatigue.

Working memory.

Task switching.

My brain has more hidden fees than Ticketmaster.

Why opening your laptop “just to send one email” somehow turns into four hours disappearing.

Why one innocent Instagram check becomes twenty-three more.

Why once you’ve started down one path, changing direction feels so disproportionately difficult.

It’s not laziness.

Your brain is simply trying to conserve energy by staying on the same track.

Unfortunately, that track is sometimes Pinterest.

Your Morning Isn’t A Personality Test

It’s a programming session.

I think this is the part that made me stop feeling guilty.

For years, I’d beat myself up when I’d accidentally spend an entire day glued to my phone.

“Why am I like this?”

Turns out...There’s an answer.

Because I accidentally told my brain that’s what mattered today.

That also works in the opposite direction.

If I journal first...I stay creative.

If I look at my calendar first...I’m productive.

If I intentionally start my day offline...I stay offline much more easily.

The goal isn’t creating the perfect six-step, colour-coded, aesthetically pleasing morning routine.

The goal is choosing your first five minutes on purpose instead of by accident.

Because those first five minutes are quietly telling your brain:

“This is who we are today.”

POINT OF THE STORY

You’re addicted to the first signal your brain receives, telling it what matters today. That signal gets chosen in a small, quiet moment before you’re even fully awake, and your entire day builds on top of it. Once you learn to work with that instead of fighting it, your mornings will stop feeling like shit.

Love you, mean it. 🖤

BTL LINKS

— All of my website copy resources: betweenthelinescopy.com/web-copy

— All of my email marketing resources: betweenthelinescopy.com/email-marketing

— Take my website copywriting course: betweenthelinescopy.com/sprint

— Sponsor this podcast (or my newsletter!): betweenthelinescopy.com/sponsorships

— Follow me on Instagram at instagram.com/btlcopy

OR instagram.com/capecodcierge

— Subscribe to my marketing newsletter at www.betweenthelinescopy.com/subscribe

— Subscribe to my ADHD newsletter at bysarajoelle.substack.com

— Subscribe to my copywriter-only newsletter at btlcopy.myflodesk.com/open-loop

— Subscribe to my designer-only newsletter at btlcopy.myflodesk.com/for-designers

— Check out my website at www.betweenthelinescopy.com

OTHER LINKS

— Past episodes: 30 Things I’ve Learned By 30, How to Keep Promises to Yourself (Even With ADHD), How To Go OFFline When Your Business Is ONline (Without Feeling Guilty)

This episode was edited by Adrienne Cruz

Here’s one of mine: Sometimes the smartest thing you can do for your business... is get a job.

Not because you’ve failed and not because you aren’t cut out for entrepreneurship.

But because sometimes stability is the thing your creativity has been begging for.

That was the biggest takeaway from this week’s conversation with my friend, Jemilla.

She left corporate to pursue acting and run her business full-time. On paper, it was exactly what so many of us dream about.

But then real life showed up, as it does!!

She wasn’t producing the quality of work she knew she was capable of, and eventually she made a decision that the internet rarely celebrates.

She went back to corporate, not because she’d failed.

Because she needed room to breathe.

Rapid-fire squirrel brain questions 🐿️

Here’s all the fun things we learned about Jemilla:

If she could gather “nuts” like a squirrel: TikTok bookmarks (organized into collections she'll definitely look at one day).

If she had to get a phrase tattooed on her face: "Leave this world better than how you found it."

What would be in the museum gift shop dedicated to her: Caramel, oysters, fantasy novels, Tic Tacs, Mentos, and extra butter movie popcorn, which honestly feels aggressively on brand.

Her walkout song: Take Me Away by Fefe Dobson or I Am a Poseur by X-Ray Spex.

The internet has made stability feel embarrassing

I think one of the biggest lies we tell ourselves as entrepreneurs is that going back to a 9–5 means you’ve somehow failed.

Like there’s this invisible hierarchy where running your business full-time is the gold medal, and accepting a salaried job means you’ve admitted defeat.

For Jemilla, the decision had nothing to do with whether she loved entrepreneurship. She loved building Storyteller Studios. She loved acting. She loved creating content.

What she didn’t love was the pressure.

Money had become so stressful that it started affecting the quality of her work. She noticed it. Her friends noticed it. Even her clients could tell she wasn’t creating at the level she knew she was capable of.

And I think that’s the part of entrepreneurship people don’t talk about enough: financial stress doesn’t just affect your bank account.

• It affects your creativity.

• It affects your confidence.

• It affects the way you show up for your clients.

At some point, you’re no longer building your business from a place of excitement. You’re building it from survival mode.

Sometimes your nervous system needs a paycheck.

One thing that really stuck with me was when Jemilla said that going back to corporate wasn’t about taking the easy way out.

It was about giving herself enough stability to actually produce work she was proud of again.

And I think we underestimate how exhausting uncertainty can be.

Your brain never really gets to rest.

The irony is that so many of us start businesses because we want freedom.

Then we accidentally build lives where we’re more mentally trapped than we ever were in corporate.

But, before anyone starts romanticising office life...

Jemilla was also very clear that corporate comes with its own challenges.

She talked about office politics, endless approval processes, navigating spaces where she’s often the only Black woman in the room, and the emotional labour that comes with that experience. She also reminded me that finding a corporate job isn’t exactly as simple as deciding you want one. The role she eventually accepted took six months of applications and interviews before it finally happened.

Sometimes online conversations make it sound like you either “take the leap” into entrepreneurship or “just go get a job.”

Neither path is easy.

You’re simply choosing which challenges you’re more equipped to handle right now.

As Jemilla put it: Pick your poison.

I think that’s one of the most realistic business lessons I’ve heard all year.

Your best work needs room to breathe.

Later in the conversation, I asked how she manages everything she’s juggling now.

A full-time job. Storyteller Studios. Content creation. Acting. Writing. Being a functioning human.

Her answer surprised me because it wasn’t some elaborate productivity system.

She simply said: “I take my time.”

That sentence has been rattling around in my head ever since, because we spend so much time rushing ourselves.

But nobody knows whether it took you fifteen frantic minutes or three thoughtful days to create something.

They only see the finished product.

So why are we always racing ourselves?

Plot your life. Schedule your rest.

Toward the end of the episode, Jemilla shared one piece of advice I think every ambitious woman needs to hear.

She said to plot every minute of your life on a calendar...

...and make sure at least 20% of those minutes are rest.

Not because rest is something you earn, but because it’s something your work depends on.

POINT OF THE STORY

Everybody’s capacity is different, and you don’t have to tough it out just because someone else thinks you should.

Love you, mean it. 🖤

JEMILLA LINKS

— Follow Jemilla on Instagram, Youtube, and Tiktok

— Stalk her website

— Check out her Content Creator Mini Course, Hub, & Idea Vault

—Join her Monthly Content Days (Membership)

— Her walkout songs: song 1 + song 2

BTL LINKS

— All of my website copy resources: betweenthelinescopy.com/web-copy

— All of my email marketing resources: betweenthelinescopy.com/email-marketing

— Take my website copywriting course: betweenthelinescopy.com/sprint

— Sponsor this podcast (or my newsletter!): betweenthelinescopy.com/sponsorships

— Follow me on Instagram at instagram.com/btlcopy OR instagram.com/capecodcierge

— Subscribe to my marketing newsletter at www.betweenthelinescopy.com/subscribe

— Subscribe to my ADHD newsletter at bysarajoelle.substack.com

— Subscribe to my copywriter-only newsletter at btlcopy.myflodesk.com/open-loop

— Subscribe to my designer-only newsletter at btlcopy.myflodesk.com/for-designers

— Check out my website at www.betweenthelinescopy.com

OTHER LINKS

— Point of the Story Guest Walkout Songs Playlist

— Grab my 30-Day Subscriber Challenge

This episode was edited by Adrienne Cruz.

There are two kinds of people in the world.

The people who spend six months wondering if they’re qualified enough...

...and the people who threaten Walmart HR with an attorney at fifteen years old because they decided they deserved the job.

Unfortunately for everyone around, I have always been the second kind.

This week’s podcast episode was a little different because my podcast editor, Adrienne, interviewed me instead of the other way around. She decided the theme of the episode was audacity, which is a word I’ve heard used to describe me an alarming number of times recently.

As we started talking, I realized that almost every major thing that’s happened in my life has started with the same thought: Well...why not?

Not because I was especially confident, not because I knew it would work.

But because I genuinely couldn’t think of a good enough reason not to ask.

The Walmart Incident

When I was fifteen, I interviewed for a job at Walmart.

They hired me.

They gave me the paperwork.

They made me take the drug test.

They congratulated me.

Then they called back and said they actually couldn’t hire me because I wasn’t eighteen.

Which is a fascinating piece of information to learn after I’d already written my birthdate on every piece of paperwork they’d handed me.

So I did what any reasonable fifteen-year-old would do.

I told Walmart HR that if they didn’t give me the job, I’d call my attorney.

(I did not have an attorney.)

But somehow...they called me back a few hours later and offered me a different position instead.

Was that a normal thing to do? Absolutely not.

Did it work? Also yes.

Most People Stop Before Anyone Else Does

I think that’s what fascinates me the most.

Not that people hear “no,” everyone hears no.

But it’s that most people decide they’re going to hear no before they’ve even asked the question.

They reject themselves and they assume they aren’t qualified enough.

And then they never give anyone else the opportunity to disagree.

I’ve cold pitched companies that had never heard of me.

I’ve emailed furniture companies asking if they’d furnish an entire house.

I’ve started businesses knowing significantly less than I know now.

Not because I knew any of those things would work, but because I knew the answer was already no if I never asked.

Confidence Isn’t What You Think It Is

People ask me all the time where my confidence comes from.

Honestly? I don’t actually think confidence comes first.

I think action does.

Confidence is usually just the receipt.

It’s the thing you earn after you’ve survived enough situations that your brain starts collecting evidence.

Every time you survive one of those moments, confidence gets a little easier.

Not because you’re suddenly fearless.

Because you’ve collected proof that you’ll probably be okay.

You’re Probably Waiting for a Feeling That Doesn’t Exist

One of my favourite questions Adrienne asked me was why I started a podcast.

People assume I had some grand strategy, but the truth is much less exciting.

I had a question about Substack that people kept asking me.

I didn’t feel like typing the answer.

So I bought a microphone.

That’s literally it.

I wasn’t waiting to feel like “a podcaster.” I became one because I recorded a podcast, and sometimes we make these identities feel so exclusive.

Writer.

Speaker.

Business owner.

Podcaster.

Author.

As though someone has to officially appoint us.

Most of the time, the only difference between the person who has the title and the person who doesn’t is that one of them started.

POINT OF THE STORY

Don’t wait to feel confident before you act like it. Be loud and stop asking “why me” when the real question is always “why not me.”

Love you, mean it. 🖤

ADRIENNE LINKS

— Subscribe to Sounds Like Brunch, Adrienne’s newsletter for current and future podcasters

— Follow her on Instagram and Threads

— Check out her website

— Grab her freebie, The Podcast Starter, if you’re thinking of starting a podcast

BTL LINKS

— All of my website copy resources: betweenthelinescopy.com/web-copy

— All of my email marketing resources: betweenthelinescopy.com/email-marketing

— Take my website copywriting course: betweenthelinescopy.com/sprint

— Sponsor this podcast (or my newsletter!): betweenthelinescopy.com/sponsorships

— Follow me on Instagram at instagram.com/btlcopy OR instagram.com/capecodcierge

— Subscribe to my marketing newsletter at www.betweenthelinescopy.com/subscribe

— Subscribe to my ADHD newsletter at bysarajoelle.substack.com

— Subscribe to my copywriter-only newsletter at btlcopy.myflodesk.com/open-loop

— Subscribe to my designer-only newsletter at btlcopy.myflodesk.com/for-designers

— Check out my website at

www.betweenthelinescopy.com

OTHER LINKS

— 30 Day Subscriber Challenge ($30)

— Vacation-Proofing Workshop

— You’re Not Annoying Workshop

— Sponsor the podcast or newsletter

— Switcheroo Series Ep. 1 with Sarah Kleist

— Have You Filled a Bucket Today? by Carol McCloud

— What Do You Do With an Idea? by Kobi Yamada

— Keke Palmer’s “Sorry to This Man” clip

This episode was edited by Adrienne Cruz.

Absolutely not.

I know whoever came up with that advice did not have ADHD, because if they did, they would’ve known that the hardest part isn’t the hard thing.

It’s starting.

Because here’s the thing nobody tells you about ADHD.

It’s not that we don’t want to do the thing, sometimes we want to do it so badly it physically hurts.

The Hobby Graveyard

Do you know how many hobbies I’ve purchased?

Don’t answer that.

Actually...Three.

Three completely untouched hobbies currently live in a cabinet in my house.

Not because I changed my mind or lost interest or just didn’t want to anymore.

I still want to.

I just...never started.

And if you have ADHD, I know you’ve experienced some version of this.

Wanting to do something and starting it are two completely different skills, which feels deeply unfair, if you ask me.

Your Brain Isn't Asking the Same Question

One of the biggest things I’ve learned about ADHD is that our brains prioritize completely different things.

A neurotypical brain asks: “What’s most important?”

An ADHD brain asks: “What’s the easiest thing that gives me dopamine immediately?”

Which explains approximately every questionable decision I’ve ever made.

Need to finish client work? How about instead feels like the perfect time to reorganize my Notion.

Need to launch a new funnel? But what if I recorded an entirely unrelated podcast episode.

Need to reply to one email? Counterpoint: Let’s spend forty-seven minutes researching something we’ll never need.

It sounds ridiculous.

Until you realise your brain genuinely believes it’s helping. It’s doing something, so it thinks it’s that thing…but it’s not. And it’s doing the exact opposite of helping.

The Problem Isn't Motivation

This was probably the biggest takeaway in the episode from me: People assume ADHD is a motivation problem.

It’s not, it’s an activation problem.

I don’t struggle because I don’t care, I struggle because my brain has the executive functioning skills of a raccoon holding a driver’s license.

The desire and intention exists. Sometimes, even the plan often exists.

The desire to start? Now that’s another story.

It’s like standing in front of a manual car knowing exactly where you need to go...

...and still stalling every time you try to leave the driveway.

You know what to do. You just can’t make the engine cooperate.

The "Why Can't You Just..." Problem

If you’ve ever had someone ask: “Why can’t you just do it?”

First of all, rude.

Second of all, I promise we’ve already asked ourselves that question about seventeen million times.

Because here’s what people don’t see…

• We know the deadline.

• We know it’ll feel better once it’s done.

• We know it’ll probably only take twenty minutes.

• We know avoiding it is making us feel worse.

We’re aware, painfully aware, in fact.

Which is exactly why so many people with ADHD end up feeling guilty.

Not because they don’t care, but because they care so much they can’t understand why their own brain won’t cooperate.

It’s exhausting.

The Rules Were Never Written For You

I think that’s the part I wish more people understood.

So much productivity advice assumes everyone’s brain works the same way.

It doesn’t.

Some people can:

• eat the frog

• do the hardest thing first

• time block their entire day

• write a to-do list and simply... follow it

Cute. And I love that for them.

I cannot. And maybe you can’t either.

It doesn’t make us broken, and it doesn’t mean we’re not trying hard enough.

It just means we need different tools.

The goal is understanding your own operating system well enough to stop fighting it.

POINT OF THE STORY

It’s not laziness or a character flaw. Your ADHD brain is just asking for a different entry point.

Love you, mean it. 🖤

BTL LINKS

— All of my website copy resources: betweenthelinescopy.com/web-copy

— All of my email marketing resources: betweenthelinescopy.com/email-marketing

— Take my website copywriting course: betweenthelinescopy.com/sprint

— Sponsor this podcast (or my newsletter!): betweenthelinescopy.com/sponsorships

— Follow me on Instagram at instagram.com/btlcopy

OR

instagram.com/capecodcierge

— Subscribe to my marketing newsletter at www.betweenthelinescopy.com/subscribe

— Subscribe to my ADHD newsletter at bysarajoelle.substack.com

— Subscribe to my copywriter-only newsletter at btlcopy.myflodesk.com/open-loop

— Subscribe to my designer-only newsletter at btlcopy.myflodesk.com/for-designers

— Check out my website at www.betweenthelinescopy.com

OTHER LINKS

— Subscribe to The Squirlie - my weekly newsletter for ADHDers

— The Wicked Easy Web Copy Guide (and the commercial license)

This episode was edited by Adrienne Cruz.

I need everyone to take a deep breath before we begin, because today’s episode is about money.

And whenever we start talking about money, people immediately do one of two things:

1. Pretend they’re totally fine and have everything under control.

Or

2. Close the tab.

I sat down with Meaghan Wall, AKA The Hot Girl CFO, and somehow we ended up talking about:

• debt

• hiring

• coaches

• credit cards

• ADHD spending habits

• emotional support bookkeeping

• and the fact that some of y’all are treating your business bank account like a communal family fridge

Which, respectfully, needs to stop.

Rapid-Fire Squirrel Brain Questions

Things we learned about Megan:

If she could gather “nuts” like a squirrel: Tarot decks and passport stamps.

If she had to get a phrase tattooed on her face: "The more fun I have, the more money I make."

What would be in the museum gift shop dedicated to her: Hugo Spritz ingredients, chai mix, IPAs, and more beverages than actual exhibits.

Her walkout song: Sabrina Carpenter's "When Did You Get Hot?"

The title she accidentally earned during this episode: Money Mommy.

The Most Uncomfortable Business Advice Ever

Ready? Look at your numbers.

Boooooooo. Tomatoes.

But genuinely.

The answer to almost every money-related panic spiral I see online is: Have you actually looked at your finances?

Not: “Do you have a feeling about your finances?”

Not: “Have you been vaguely stressed about your finances?”

Not: “Did you spend three hours on Threads reading someone else’s opinion about finances?”

Have you actually looked? Because a surprising number of business owners are making decisions based on vibes.

And listen, I love a vibe.

I have built an entire personality around vibes.

But vibes are not bookkeeping.

The Difference Between Knowing and Guessing

One thing Megan said that really stuck with me was that CFOs help people see the future.

Not because they’re psychic, but because they’re looking at the data.

And I think that’s where a lot of business owners get stuck.

We tell ourselves: “I think I’m doing okay.” “I think I can afford that.” “I think this launch went well.” “I think I should hire someone.” “I think I’m making money.”

And then somebody actually looks at the numbers and discovers: “Oh.”

Turns out thinking and knowing are not the same thing, which is both horrifying and deeply useful.

Your Business Is Not Your Personal Wallet

This was probably my favourite part of the conversation.

Because apparently there are a lot of business owners out there operating under the financial philosophy of: What’s mine is mine.

And what’s the business’s is also mine.

Which...No.

The business is not your checking account.

The business is not your emergency fund.

The business is not your emotional support debit card.

The business is its own thing.

And the sooner you start treating it that way, the easier literally everything becomes.

But every business owner I know who finally got serious about their finances says the exact same thing: “I wish I had done this sooner.”

The Debt Conversation Nobody Wants to Have

Can I tell you something?

I think people assign way too much morality to debt, having debt does not make you irresponsible.

Debt is a tool.

Sometimes people use tools effectively. Sometimes people accidentally hit themselves in the face with the tool.

BUT the existence of the tool isn’t the problem.

The important thing is understanding what you’re using it for, and whether it’s helping you build something or helping you avoid something.

Those are very different things.

POINT OF THE STORY

Look at your numbers even if you’re afraid to. The most empowering thing you can do for your business is to know exactly what you’re working with.

Love you, mean it. 🖤

MEAGHAN LINKS

— Follow Meaghan on Instagram and Threads

— Check out her website

— Browse her services

— Her walkout song

BTL LINKS

— All of my website copy resources:

betweenthelinescopy.com/web-copy

— All of my email marketing resources:

betweenthelinescopy.com/email-marketing

— Take my website copywriting course:

betweenthelinescopy.com/sprint

— Sponsor this podcast (or my newsletter!):

betweenthelinescopy.com/sponsorships

— Follow me on Instagram at

instagram.com/btlcopy

OR

instagram.com/capecodcierge

— Subscribe to my marketing newsletter at

www.betweenthelinescopy.com/subscribe

— Subscribe to my ADHD newsletter at

bysarajoelle.substack.com

— Subscribe to my copywriter-only newsletter at

btlcopy.myflodesk.com/open-loop

— Subscribe to my designer-only newsletter at

btlcopy.myflodesk.com/for-designers

— Check out my website at

www.betweenthelinescopy.com

This episode was edited by Adrienne Cruz.

Every morning I record my friends a podcast.

They call it an audio message, I call it a podcast.

Tomato, tomahto.

The process is always the same: I start with a purpose.

And then somehow twenty-seven minutes later I’m discussing:

• why I hate audio messages

• my chai latte recipe

• LinkedIn engagement

• homeownership

• whether people are too obsessed with documenting being offline

• and a completely unrelated personality flaw I’m trying to work on.

And because I was walking this morning and already recording one of these unhinged voice notes, I had a thought: What if I just recorded one for you?

So that’s exactly what happened.

The Performance of Being Offline

One thing I found myself ranting about during this walk was something I can’t quite decide how I feel about.

The internet’s obsession with documenting being offline.

Now before anyone starts throwing tomatoes: I like the content.

But also...

Something about it feels weird.

Like we finally escaped our phones...

Only to immediately tell everyone about escaping our phones.

The hypocrisy is not lost on me.

But it does make me wonder: Have we become so accustomed to documenting our lives that we struggle to simply experience them?

I’m asking the question because I genuinely don’t know.

The AI Conversation Is Exhausting

Another thing I accidentally spent fifteen minutes talking about? AI.

Unfortunately.

And here’s my official statement: I am tired.

Because nobody can stop talking about it.

Every conversation somehow turns into:

• AI will replace us

• AI will save us

• AI is the future

• AI is the apocalypse

Meanwhile I’m over here using ChatGPT to estimate the macros in my breakfast and figure out how much butter was probably hiding in restaurant eggs.

I just think we’ve collectively forgotten something important: You still have a brain.

I don’t care if you’re writing copy, creating content, building a business, etc.

Your job isn’t to outsource your thinking.

Your job is to think.

The Sensitive Person Problem

Here’s the actual vulnerable part.

Because somewhere in the middle of getting lost in my neighbourhood, I started talking about something that’s been on my mind lately.

I think I’ve become a little too sensitive.

Not in the way people mean when they’re trying to dismiss someone’s feelings.

I don’t mean that.

I mean the kind of sensitivity where someone says something completely normal and somehow your brain turns it into a three-act drama.

The kind where:

• you read into things

• you assign meaning

• you start analysing tone

• you convince yourself something is deeper than it actually is

I’m tired of hurting my own feelings, because sometimes that’s what’s happening.

Sometimes you’re just marinating in a comment that should’ve been released back into the wild immediately.

And I think I want to get better at that.

Not becoming less caring, and not becoming less thoughtful.

Just becoming a little harder to knock sideways.

POINT OF THE STORY

Own your contradictions, keep moving, and for the love of God, put your pricing on your website.

Love you, mean it. 🖤

BTL LINKS

— All of my website copy resources:

betweenthelinescopy.com/web-copy

— All of my email marketing resources:

betweenthelinescopy.com/email-marketing

— Take my website copywriting course:

betweenthelinescopy.com/sprint

— Sponsor this podcast (or my newsletter!):

betweenthelinescopy.com/sponsorships

— Follow me on Instagram at

instagram.com/btlcopy

OR

instagram.com/capecodcierge

— Subscribe to my marketing newsletter at

www.betweenthelinescopy.com/subscribe

— Subscribe to my ADHD newsletter at

bysarajoelle.substack.com

— Subscribe to my copywriter-only newsletter at

btlcopy.myflodesk.com/open-loop

— Subscribe to my designer-only newsletter at

btlcopy.myflodesk.com/for-designers

— Check out my website at

www.betweenthelinescopy.com

OTHER LINKS

— Into the Blue by Emma Brodie

— Be Ready When the Luck Happens by Ina Garten

— Episode 40: Should You Display Pricing on Your Website or Not?

— Episode 67: How To Go OFFline When Your Business Is ONline

— Blog post: 3 Reasons Why AI Robots Won’t Replace Copywriters

— Adrienne’s newsletter, Sounds Like Brunch

This episode was edited by Adrienne Cruz.

This episode is part two of my accidental anti-hustle manifesto because I need us to have an uncomfortable conversation.

Your business is not going to die because you didn’t check on it for six hours, and it is not sitting in the corner crying because you skipped Instagram Stories on Saturday.

And yet...

You’d think our businesses required around-the-clock medical supervision.

You are actually allowed to go outside.

Last week we talked about how to actually BE offline.

This week we’re talking about the thing everyone is secretly afraid of:

“What if people forget about me?”

Rapid-Fire Squirrel Brain Questions

Things I apparently admitted during this episode:

How long people spend reading my website: Forty-five minutes, which is honestly concerning behaviour, but I'll take it.

The thing I thought I'd never become: A weekly podcaster.

The thing I care most about not missing: My newsletter. Everything else is negotiable. My newsletter? Absolutely not, never missed a Tuesday.

The marketing hill I’ll die on: Blogging is not dead.

My relationship status with Instagram: It’s complicated.

My toxic trait: Having five newsletters and thinking that’s a reasonable business choice.

Nobody Is Thinking About You As Much As You Think They Are

People are not sitting around wondering where you are, and they’re not refreshing your Instagram waiting for your next carousel.

During the summer, they’re at Costco.

They’re trying to remember why they walked into the kitchen. They’re scrolling Zillow looking at houses they can’t afford. They’re texting their group chat.

They’re living their own lives.

So the amount of pressure we put on ourselves to remain constantly visible online is honestly exhausting and unnecessary.

Most of it comes from this belief that if we disappear for five minutes, all of our momentum disappears too, but the strongest businesses don’t rely on constant visibility.

They rely on strong foundations.

The Difference Between Marketing And Performing

When somebody says: “Build a business that works for you.”

Most people immediately think:

• automations

• systems

• team members

• workflows

Which yeah, those things matter.

But what I’m actually talking about is marketing.

Specifically: Marketing that continues working after you’ve closed your laptop.

Because if the only way people can find you is if you’re actively posting every day?

That’s not a marketing strategy.

Your Website Should Be Doing More Work Than You Are

Shocking, Website Girl is about to talk about websites.

But seriously, your website should be doing several jobs at once:

• It should answer questions.

• It should help people understand what you do.

• It should communicate your personality.

• It should build trust.

• It should tell people how to work with you.

• It should move people toward the next step.

All without you lifting a finger.

My favourite thing in the world is when someone inquires and tells me:

“I spent forty-five minutes on your website.”

FORTY-FIVE MINUTES.

At that point you’ve basically moved in, made your decision, and moved forward.

And that’s exactly what good website copy does.

It keeps working after you’ve walked away.

SEO Is The Most Underrated Employee In Your Business

You know who doesn’t need PTO? SEO.

You know who doesn’t care that you’re at the beach? SEO.

You know who’s still clocking in while you’re eating chips in a lounge chair? SEO.

That’s why I love it.

While social media is constantly demanding your attention, SEO is quietly introducing people to your business behind the scenes.

People search and Google sends them to you.

They find answers AND they discover your offers.

All while you’re doing literally anything else.

That’s what people actually mean when they say: “Your business works for you.”

Not magic. Not passive income fairy dust.

Just marketing assets doing their jobs.

The Foundation Nobody Wants To Build

The problem is that foundations are boring.

Everybody wants:

• viral content

• quick wins

• explosive growth

• immediate results

Nobody wakes up excited to optimise their website.

But the strongest businesses aren’t built on constant activity, they’re built on assets.

Things that keep introducing people to you long after you’ve finished creating them.

POINT OF THE STORY

Your business works for you when you’ve built it on a foundation that doesn’t need you online 24/7 to keep running.

Love you, mean it. 🖤

BTL LINKS

— All of my website copy resources:

betweenthelinescopy.com/web-copy

— All of my email marketing resources:

betweenthelinescopy.com/email-marketing

— Take my website copywriting course:

betweenthelinescopy.com/sprint

— Sponsor this podcast (or my newsletter!):

betweenthelinescopy.com/sponsorships

— Follow me on Instagram at

instagram.com/btlcopy

OR

instagram.com/capecodcierge

— Subscribe to my marketing newsletter at

www.betweenthelinescopy.com/subscribe

— Subscribe to my ADHD newsletter at

bysarajoelle.substack.com

— Subscribe to my copywriter-only newsletter at

btlcopy.myflodesk.com/open-loop

— Subscribe to my designer-only newsletter at

btlcopy.myflodesk.com/for-designers

— Check out my website at

www.betweenthelinescopy.com

OTHER LINKS

— Part 1 of this series: How To Go OFFline When Your Business Is ONline (Without Feeling Guilty)

— Stalk my blog, especially my Website category

— Join my vacation proofing workshop

— Blog post: “Is Blogging Still Relevant To Your Marketing Strategy In 2026?”

— Past episode: “How To Make Your Old Blogs Relevant Again: Inside the Biggest SEO Hack With Maven Made Copy”

— Past episode: “How To Sell on Evergreen Without the Girlboss Bullshit with Chelsea Quint”

— Past episode: “Everything You Want to Know About LinkedIn with Nicole Marguerite Gray”

— Won’t Sell Itself (email/sales page workshop) (Use LEMONADE for 30% off!)

— Adrienne’s podcast launch course, Saturday Morning Launch Plan

— Adrienne’s out of office IG post

This episode was edited by Adrienne Cruz.

I fear we as online business owners have collectively forgotten something very important:

You are actually allowed to go outside.

Revolutionary, I know.

This episode came to you live from my “beautiful spring morning, creatine in my Dunkin’, coastal grandmother gym bro” era because I am currently preparing to take SIX WEEKS OFF this summer.

And before you start throwing tomatoes: No, I was not born this way.

I used to be deeply, spiritually, unwell about work.

At one point I literally had to: block Gmail on Safari, remove email from my phone, and BRICK Stripe because I was addicted to checking my revenue.

If you just gasped and whispered “oh my god that’s me” …welcome, squirrel.

Rapid-Fire Squirrel Brain Questions

Here’s what we learned about me during this accidental therapy session disguised as a podcast episode:

What I’m drinking this summer: Zero sugar margarita packets because apparently Side Character™ is enabling my nonsense now.

What my ADHD brain thinks rest sounds like: “Okay but technically we COULD batch six newsletters right now…”

What my business used to run on: Validation, overworking, and approximately 14 iced coffees.

What I’m trying to become: A mysterious offline beach woman nobody can reach.

What I had to physically block from my phone: Gmail, Slack, AND Stripe because apparently I’m a Victorian factory owner trapped in a copywriter’s body.

The Truth About “Being Offline”

I think a lot of people hear: “Take time off!” and imagine disappearing into the woods for 14 days while their business burns to the ground behind them.

To be clear, that’s not what I’m talking about.

Being offline IS:

• planning ahead

• communicating clearly

• creating systems

• setting expectations

• and realizing you do not need to be emotionally support-refreshing your inbox from the beach chair.

You are not the sole employee of the internet, and some of you are giving your business more emotional attention than your houseplants.

Why We Feel Guilty Taking Time Off

Here’s the thing nobody wants to admit: Sometimes the guilt is just your ego wearing business casual.

OOP.

Don’t lie, a tiny part of you LIKES feeling needed and wanted and important in your business.

So when we finally unplug, we realize: “Oh… the world did not collapse because I didn’t answer an email for four hours.”

Humbling.

Also, sometimes being busy just feels familiar.

A lot of us started businesses because we wanted freedom, flexibility, and a life outside of work…

…and then accidentally rebuilt a corporate prison but with prettier fonts.

You Do Not Need to Earn Rest

Bestie. The to-do list is never fully done.

If your rule for resting is: “I can rest once everything is finished”…

…you literally will never rest.

And that’s how you wake up one day feeling deeply resentful of the business you once begged the universe for.

Your business should support your life. Not consume every square inch of it.

The “Tiny Offline Steps” Strategy

If you’re reading this thinking: “Okay but if I stop checking my phone I’ll actually pass away…”

You do NOT need to go cold turkey immediately.

In fact, please don’t, because you’ll relapse harder than somebody deleting Hinge after one bad date.

Start small. That’s how you build proof for your brain that: “Hey babe… nothing terrible happened because we rested.”

Because your nervous system genuinely needs evidence that stepping away is safe.

The Analog Bag Era

One of my favorite things I talked about in this episode was the concept of an “analog bag.”

AKA: a bag of activities for when you’re trying not to emotionally relapse into business mode.

Mine would include:

• my Kindle

• Sudoku books

• a junk journal

• Uno

• a film camera

• snail mail supplies

• my abandoned crochet kit

• a coloring book

• approximately six hobbies I swore would “change my life”

The point isn’t productivity. The point is reminding yourself: you are a PERSON.

POINT OF THE STORY

Take a weekend off social. End your workday an hour earlier. Make the list of things you actually want to do. You built this business for the flexibility, didn’t you?

Love you, mean it. 🖤

BTL LINKS

— All of my website copy resources:

betweenthelinescopy.com/web-copy

— All of my email marketing resources:

betweenthelinescopy.com/email-marketing

— Take my website copywriting course:

betweenthelinescopy.com/sprint

— Sponsor this podcast (or my newsletter!):

betweenthelinescopy.com/sponsorships

— Follow me on Instagram at

instagram.com/btlcopy

OR

instagram.com/capecodcierge

— Subscribe to my marketing newsletter at

www.betweenthelinescopy.com/subscribe

— Subscribe to my ADHD newsletter at

bysarajoelle.substack.com

— Subscribe to my copywriter-only newsletter at

btlcopy.myflodesk.com/open-loop

— Subscribe to my designer-only newsletter at

btlcopy.myflodesk.com/for-designers

— Check out my website at

www.betweenthelinescopy.com

OTHER LINKS

— Vacation-Proofing Workshop

— Past episode: “How To Have A Balanced, Burnout-Free Year: 7 Themed Days To Add To Your Calendar”

— Substack: “how to stop squirreling all over town: the “tiny tasks til ten” method!”

— Past episode: All My Streams of Income as a Copywriter and Marketing Mentor Making $400k/Year

— TOC #232: if you can’t think of 10, think of 30 (or else)

— Open Loop Newsletter for copywriters

— Instagram: @siececampbell

— Book: Remember It!: The Names of People You Meet, All of Your Passwords, Where You Left Your Keys, and Everything Else You Tend to Forget

— Tin Can for kids

— Brick (my affiliate link!)

This episode was edited by Adrienne Cruz.

I fear this episode might have permanently altered my brain chemistry. Not because we uncovered some groundbreaking business hack.

But because Amy casually revealed she was a drum major in marching band and I have not emotionally recovered since.

We’ve known each other for YEARS and you never once mentioned you were out there conducting a full marching band like an ambitious Beyoncé with a baton???

This episode is technically about mentorship, business growth, trusting yourself, and becoming the kind of business owner who stops spiralling every time someone on Instagram launches a new offer.

It’s also about:

• Kindle Unlimited smut recommendations

• why perfectionism is fake

• subtle TV reference t-shirts

• why I think everybody should buy a Ninja Creami

• and the fact that Amy was one of the first people to ever hear about Side Character™

So basically… journalism.

Rapid-Fire Squirrel Brain Questions (Kleist Edition)

Here’s what we learned about Amy in her round of squirrel brain questions:

If she could gather “nuts” like a squirrel: Subtle TV-reference t-shirts. Think “Seattle Grace Mercy West” instead of just “Grey’s Anatomy.” She wants strangers to recognize the lore.

If she had to get a phrase tattooed on her face: “Complicated is canceled.” Period. I love it, no notes.

What would be in the museum gift shop dedicated to her: Spicy romance novels, Kindle cases, snack cups, and blind-date-with-a-book bundles labeled only by spice level. Nothing under 3 peppers allowed.

Her walkout song: “Circus” by Britney Spears. It activates her like a sleeper-cell spy.

The “Complicated is Canceled” Era

One thing Amy said in this episode that hit me like a truck was this: “There probably is an easier way to do this and it’ll probably be better because it’ll actually get done.”

Because how many times do we convince ourselves that more complicated = more professional?

You think your new funnel needs one million emails, a 4-step checkout page with 12 bonuses and bump offers, and your website must have 70 pages (like mine).

BUT, the people actually growing are just doing the thing.

Action vs. inaction is what separates so many successful business owners from the people stuck “researching” for six months.

Amy talked about how much she used to compare herself to everyone online:
“Should I be doing this?” “Am I missing something?” “Wait, now THEY’RE launching THIS…”

Which is why one of my favorite things she said was this whole concept of:
Put. The blinders. On.

Because if you spend all day consuming everyone else’s strategies, eventually you stop being able to hear your own thoughts at all.

As somebody with ADHD and approximately 87 tabs open at all times… I get it.

Mentorship Isn’t About Being Saved

I think one of the most important things we talked about in this episode was this idea that mentorship isn’t about someone rescuing you. A mentor can’t magically make your business successful while you sit there eating Pirate’s Booty and refreshing Instagram notifications. (Unfortunately.)

You still have to do the work. And Amy has DONE the work.

She literally said: “How did I do it? On fucking purpose.”

Boom.

People want the magic answer and the secret sauce, but that’s not what it is, at all.

I think one of the biggest transformations I’ve watched happen for Amy over the years is that she stopped needing permission.

She stopped asking: “Am I allowed to do this?”

And started asking: “Does this make sense for ME?”

THAT is where the magic happens.

Done Is Better Than Perfect

We also talked extensively about how perfectionism is basically just avoidance wearing a cute outfit.

Because if you’re constantly trying to ‘perfect’ the process and final product and everything along the way…

…you’re not actually moving.

You’re decorating procrastination (yikes).

Amy and I both have very action-forward personalities, and I think that’s a huge reason we work so well together.

If we have an idea? We’re probably already halfway through implementing it before the thought is fully formed.

Sometimes the reason things worked is because we moved before we had time to talk ourselves out of it.

POINT OF THE STORY

You don’t need a mentor to save you. You need one to help you figure out how you want to save yourself, and then get out of the way while you do it.

Love you, mean it. 🖤

AMY LINKS

— Follow Amy on Instagram and Threads

— Check out her website

— Subscribe to her newsletter

— Learn about her done-with-you website copywriting experience, Cook Your Copy

— Take her free messaging workshop

— Her walkout song

BTL LINKS

— All of my website copy resources:

betweenthelinescopy.com/web-copy

— All of my email marketing resources:

betweenthelinescopy.com/email-marketing

— Take my website copywriting course:

betweenthelinescopy.com/sprint

— Sponsor this podcast (or my newsletter!):

betweenthelinescopy.com/sponsorships

— Follow me on Instagram at

instagram.com/btlcopy

OR

instagram.com/capecodcierge

— Subscribe to my marketing newsletter at

www.betweenthelinescopy.com/subscribe

— Subscribe to my ADHD newsletter at

bysarajoelle.substack.com

— Subscribe to my copywriter-only newsletter at

btlcopy.myflodesk.com/open-loop

— Subscribe to my designer-only newsletter at

btlcopy.myflodesk.com/for-designers

— Check out my website at

www.betweenthelinescopy.com

OTHER LINKS

— Josh’s nutrition coaching website

This episode was edited by Adrienne Cruz.

Sarah Kleist — my best friend, my website designer, the woman who has designed every single iteration of my website since I was successful enough to hire a designer — has taken over the podcast. She’s hosting. I’m the guest. I had zero idea what questions she was going to ask me and I was not allowed to prepare.

Welcome to the Switcheroo Series, episode 1. Pray for me.

For context: Kleist is a Showit designer based in New York City who listens to podcasts for eight hours a day while designing, has been to Cape Cod at least three times, was once featured in a Forbes article (which she forgot about until I brought it up), and has a pop-punk cover of Defying Gravity on YouTube that my dad watches monthly.

She’s also one of my favorite people on the planet and this episode is pure chaos and I loved every second of it.

Rapid-Fire Squirrel Brain Questions (Kleist Edition)

Sarah Kleist did not ask the usual squirrel brain questions. She had her own agenda.

The last thing I Googled: On Josh’s phone: Robbie Hoffman, because I had a dream we were going to her comedy show and had to explain who she was. On my own phone: Salts and Honey Creamery in Massachusetts, a new Cape Cod spot with dirty soda. Makes sense.

If I could live in any decade just for the aesthetics: I used to hate the 70s and now I’m kind of into it. The 90s are nostalgic but fugly, so my actual answer was whatever era when being pale and soft was considered a symbol of wealth. Kleist said she was thinking more about design aesthetics than fashion…oops.

My most used emoji: I guessed correctly without even checking: the side-eye emoji (👀). Followed by the light blue heart, the squirrel, and the sparkle. On brand, always.

The perfect Cape Cod day, start to finish, with no lines and no parking problems: This answer took seven minutes. July 1st. My half birthday. No parenting happening. Nobody else home. A walk around the pond, 10,000 steps done by 7am. Chai latte #1 from Lighthouse Keepers Pantry in Yarmouth Port (blueberry, obviously, and I order with no line). Beach at C Street in Dennis, parked at Cold Storage so I could walk down the dune. Chicken salad sandwich from Dennis Public Market with salt and vinegar Cape Cod chips. Ice cream at Ice Cream Smuggler. Drive to Chatham through Brewster, stopping at the Brewster Bookstore and Vintage Traders. Walk around downtown Chatham. Drinks at the Veranda at Chatham Bars Inn. Lobsters and nachos at the Beach House Grill. Fudge from Chatham Candy Manor. Back to my parents’ house, which is now full of friends who appeared out of nowhere. Somebody brought Truro Vineyard’s cranberry red wine and there’s a cheese board. We sit on the deck and talk shit we’ve talked shit about 38 times before. Ice cream at Little Caboose: soft serve twist with rainbow sprinkles. Josh appears. We go to sleep. Perfection.

Why the Cape Cod Instagram Exists (The Full Lore)

In 2018, I was a concierge at Chatham Bars Inn, one of two five-star resorts on Cape Cod. I started an Instagram called Cape Codcierge (concierge with a D, get it) because I was recommending things to guests all day every day and figured I might as well post about it. People would wait for my posts to drop. I was out here asking for free meals. It was basically a Cape Cod influencer.

Then I got pregnant, moved off Cape Cod, and never posted on it again. The most recent post, before I revived the account, was a picture of me sitting on a bench on my birthday in 2018.

I revived it recently because I saw Mariah Magazine get interviewed by a local publication for her Buffalo coffee shop Instagram, a modest account that’s just pictures of coffee, nothing else, and I thought: I have been secretly rating every single chai latte on Cape Cod in my Notes app for years and I should probably do something with that.

So now it’s live again. No real business goal. No BTL copy strategy attached. Just chai lattes, Cape Cod recs, and the occasional book list. I’ve been collaborating with local businesses (Three Fins Coffee and Little Caboose). I’ve grown about 80 followers since the revival and I’m having fun with it.

Follow along at the Cape Cod account if you want to know where to get the best chai on the Cape. And if you want to know where NOT to go — the bad ones live in the Notes app and will stay there.

If I Were Running Kleist Creative: How to Double Her Income

Kleist asked me the most selfish and also the best question of the episode: if you were running my business, how would you double my income?

Here’s what I said:

Raise your prices. Immediately. First thing. She’s one of the best Showit designers working right now and she has not been acting like it or pricing like it. You could book out a year in advance at higher prices. Do it.

Upsell Flodesk design to every single client. After every project, if they didn’t add it, offer it. And email every past client announcing it’s available now. This sells immediately. Post about it on Threads, send a sales email, done.

Send more sales emails. One newsletter a week is lovely. One sales email a week on top of that is how you make money. She’s not doing this. She needs to start.

Run ads to the Brand Masterclass. Test whether it converts on its own first. If not, build a freebie with an email sequence upselling into it, retarget with ads. That’s the funnel.

Revive the template shop — but not full website templates. Not because they’re bad, but because Kleist’s genius is in one-on-one custom work and full templates are a saturated market that takes forever to build and goes out of style fast. Instead: Notion templates. Client experience templates. Questionnaire templates. Flodesk newsletter templates. Smaller, faster, useful for people at every stage.

The real answer though: TikTok. Half designer, half influencer. New York City life plus design content plus a template subscription that drops new things monthly — Showit pages, Flodesk layouts, Notion systems — all in one low-cost subscription. Monthly trend report energy. Your TikToks become about making the templates. Your templates become the thing people subscribe to. The whole flywheel works together.

If she does none of this I’ll be furious. DM her at @kleistcreative and hold her accountable. She’s moving apartments first, after that she has no excuse.

What I Do When I Disagree With Client Feedback

This one came up and I realized I’ve been meaning to talk about it forever so here’s the full framework:

When a client leaves feedback I disagree with, my process is always the same: validate, explain, give them the agency.

I never say “nope” or “bad idea” or make them feel stupid for the suggestion. I say something like: I understand why you’d want that, and here’s why I’d actually recommend doing it differently. Then I explain the reason — usually framed around what’s best for their reader, not my personal preference. Then I remind them it’s their website and they’re in charge, but if they want my professional recommendation, this is it.

Nine times out of ten they say: that makes total sense, thank you. Because they hired an expert. They want to be guided. They just needed the reason explained in a way that wasn’t condescending.

The one time it doesn’t work that way, I let it go. I give my explanation once, clearly, and if they push back anyway I say okay, your website, and I move on. Fighting someone into keeping copy or a design choice they hate doesn’t serve either of us.

The Business Skill I Wish I Had

Genuinely had to think about this because I don’t struggle a ton with business confidence.

The honest answer: caring about analytics. There are people out there with UTM tracking links and spreadsheets and downloads and deep dives into conversion data and I am simply not that girl. I make money, I know roughly what’s working, I move on. I think if I had been more disciplined about tracking from the beginning I would know a lot more about what’s actually driving revenue in my business.

The adjacent answer: the ability to fully finish one thing before starting the next. But then I thought about it more and I’m not sure I actually want that. Having multiple businesses means I never get bored and never get to the point of dreading any one thing. I accidentally built that in.

Foundational Blogs for a Website Designer (Audience Question)

A listener asked what foundational blogs a branding and website designer should have when launching their site. Here’s my full answer:

First: launch with a full blog. If your template has space for ten blog posts, you need ten. A brand new website with two blogs looks like you started yesterday. A website with ten thoughtful posts looks like you’ve been doing this for years. Don’t tell on yourself.

For a Squarespace designer specifically, I’d want to see:

At minimum three blogs answering the most common Squarespace questions your audience asks. Think: things people don’t know Squarespace can do, why Squarespace over other platforms, what to have ready before your Squarespace site launches.

A “Reasons to Work With Me” blog — not for SEO, but great to link on your About page. This one is for the people who are already interested and want to be convinced.

Industry adjacent content like “Everything You Need Before Launching Your Website” — topics that attract your ideal client one step before they’re ready to hire you.

For finding the right keywords: grab a free trial of Semrush, search terms related to your services, and look at search intent. If someone’s typing “website design services” they want to hire someone — that’s a services page keyword. If they’re typing “how to hire a website designer” — that’s a blog. Anything starting with “how to” is almost always a blog. Look at People Also Ask in Google search results for your keywords and let those questions tell you exactly what to write next.

If I Couldn’t Write or Teach:

Success guaranteed version: I’m a painter. I have a gallery. The gallery also has a coffee shop and a bookstore. Maybe a bed and breakfast on the side. I’ve been wanting to paint this specific sailor painting I keep seeing in shops on Cape Cod and I’m just going to figure out how to do it.

No guaranteed success version: I’m running a celebrity’s Instagram or a brand’s social media. If it’s my only job and I’m fully focused on it, I think I’d genuinely pop off. The design eye is there. The strategy is there. The voice is there. I just never had the bandwidth.

Ten years ago my answer would have been lawyer, or senator. The filibuster potential alone!! Do not give me a microphone and an unlimited amount of time to talk, I will use all of it.

Find Sarah Kleist

She’s one of the best Showit designers alive and she is finally starting to act like it. Find her at @kleistcreative on Instagram and Threads. DM her about the TikTok. Hold her to it.

And if you want to hear her cover of Defying Gravity — search Kleist Creative on YouTube. My dad will be watching it at the same time as you.

POINT OF THE STORY

Sarah Kleist is the best Showit website designer, and you should definitely hire her.

Love you, mean it. 🖤

KLEIST LINKS

— Follow Kleist on Instagram

— Check out her obviously kickass website

— Download Kleist’s viral freebie: The To-Done List

— BTL Copy x Kleist Creative - hire us together!

BTL LINKS

— All of my website copy resources:

betweenthelinescopy.com/web-copy

— All of my email marketing resources:

betweenthelinescopy.com/email-marketing

— Take my website copywriting course:

betweenthelinescopy.com/sprint

— Sponsor this podcast (or my newsletter!):

betweenthelinescopy.com/sponsorships

— Follow me on Instagram at

instagram.com/btlcopy

OR

instagram.com/capecodcierge

— Subscribe to my marketing newsletter at

www.betweenthelinescopy.com/subscribe

— Subscribe to my ADHD newsletter at

bysarajoelle.substack.com

— Subscribe to my copywriter-only newsletter at

btlcopy.myflodesk.com/open-loop

— Subscribe to my designer-only newsletter at

btlcopy.myflodesk.com/for-designers

— Check out my website at

www.betweenthelinescopy.com

OTHER LINKS

— Sarah Kleist’s “Defying Gravity” pop-punk YouTube cover

— My Cape Cod alternate Instagram account

— Forbes article about Sarah Kleist

— Point of the Story episodes mentioned: Why Your Website Feels Off, And How to Fix It with Sarah Kleist, SEO for People Who’ve Been Avoiding It with Mariah Magazine, How To Make Your Old Blogs Relevant Again: Inside the Biggest SEO Hack With Maven Made Copy

This episode was edited by Adrienne Cruz.

You know that feeling where you have something you genuinely want to do, you know exactly how to do it, there’s a deadline, someone’s waiting on you, and you are still just... sitting there? Unable to make your hands do the thing?

We’re talking about that exact feeling today.

Sarah Lovell has been an executive function coach for 12 years.

She helps women in business with time management, organizing, planning, and systems; and she’s here to tell you something that might actually change your life:

You’re not procrastinating. You’re stuck. And those are not the same thing.

Rapid-Fire Squirrel Brain Questions

Here’s what we learned about Eden in her round of squirrel brain questions:

If she could gather “nuts” like a squirrel: Photos of her sleeping dogs. Every single day. Different positions, different vibes, always equally devastating in their cuteness. She has a pit bull named Georgia and a 12-year-old Weimaraner.

If she had to get one phrase tattooed on her face: "Be here now." She's been on a mindfulness journey: working on staying present, noticing when her brain drifts to the past or the future, and being intentional about phone use in a world designed to pull you out of the moment. She wants it for herself in the mirror every morning, but also as a gentle reminder to everyone she's talking to.

If there were a museum about her, what would be in the gift shop: Quirky mismatched mugs: all from places she's traveled or gifted by people she loves, because a good mug is a sensory experience and she is a tea-all-day girly. Also stationery, planners, and the best pens (cute ones, not just functional ones, little animals on top, that kind of thing). And a sign in front of the stationery station that reads: it's okay to buy this planner and only use it for two weeks. Which is the most healing thing anyone has ever said about planners coming from a squirrel that gets it.

Her walkout song: DJ Earworm's “United States of Pop 2009” — a mashup that contains literally everyone from that era. Kelly Clarkson, Lady Gaga, Miley Cyrus, Kings of Leon, Flo Rida. She graduated high school in 2009. It transports her to another life phase every single time and I’m here for it

What Is Executive Function, Actually?

Before we get into the good stuff, let’s define our terms — because “executive functioning” sounds like something that only applies to offices and school assignments, and it absolutely does not.

“Executive functioning” is the set of skills your brain uses every single day to do literally everything. Planning. Organizing. Prioritizing. Task switching. Getting started. Sustained attention. Flexible thinking. It covers your work, your hobbies, your relationships, your self-care. All of it.

Every single person uses and needs executive function skills. Some people just experience more intense and chronic challenges with them — and that’s where the phrase “executive dysfunction” comes in. It’s a spectrum, and where you land on it changes what tools and strategies are actually going to work for you.

Here’s the problem: we were all given the exact same toolkit in school. Write a to-do list. Keep a calendar. Set an alarm on your phone. That’s it. And for a huge percentage of people, those tools range from mildly unhelpful to completely useless — because we were all given the same systems but not the same brains.

So when the systems don’t work, people assume the problem is them. It’s not. It’s a mismatch.

You’re Not Procrastinating. You’re Stuck.

This is the reframe I want you to carry out of this episode and use for the rest of your life.

Procrastinating means you don’t want to do the thing. And yes, everyone procrastinates sometimes. There are genuinely tasks you don’t want to do and you keep not doing them and that’s procrastination.

But the majority of the time? You do want to do it. You’re excited about it. You have ideas about it. You just can’t start it. And that’s not procrastination, that’s being stuck. And being stuck has an iceberg of reasons underneath it that “just do it” will never fix.

Sarah’s whole coaching philosophy starts here: self-talk is the foundation of executive functioning. Before any system or strategy or tool, she’s asking: what is your brain telling you?

Because your brain might be telling you things like:

• I have to do this perfectly or there’s no point

• Once I send this email everything else will explode

• I’ve avoided this for so long that starting it now means confronting how long I avoided it

• What if this goes well and then I have more to manage than I can handle

None of those are procrastination.

All of them are your brain trying to protect you from discomfort. And if you keep calling it procrastination, you’ll keep trying to solve the wrong problem.

Why You Can’t Start (The Real Categories)

Sarah breaks down the most common reasons people get stuck into a few categories, and I guarantee at least one of these is going to hit:

Mental and emotional discomfort. This is the big one. Perfectionism — if I can’t do it right, what’s the point. Fear of failure. Fear of success (what if this works and now I have more to manage). Avoiding the shame or frustration from a past experience with this task. And the sneaky one: guilt for not starting sooner, which makes you avoid it even more, which makes the guilt worse, which makes you avoid it more. The spiral is real and it is exhausting.

Clarity and decision-making challenges. Your brain can see the finish line. It’s excited about the finish line. But it cannot identify a single clear starting point, so it just... stalls. Analysis paralysis. Too many decisions. Fear of picking the wrong first step and leaving all the other options behind. This is not a motivation problem. This is a navigation problem.

Decision fatigue. We only have so much capacity for making decisions in a day. And most women — especially moms, especially solo business owners — are making decisions for themselves and everyone else around them from the moment they wake up. By 2 p.m., the tank is empty and nothing is getting decided. This is not a character flaw. This is a resource management problem.

The domino effect. Sarah shared a client story that made me go oh. The client couldn’t send one email. Not because she didn’t want to, not because she didn’t know what to say, but because sending that email was going to kick off fifteen other things, and her brain was already overwhelmed by the thought of all of them. So the email just sat there. Her brain wasn’t avoiding the email. It was avoiding everything the email would unlock.

What to Actually Do About It

Okay, we’ve named the problem. Now what?

Name it to tame it. This sounds like a therapy thing that feels too simple to work. It’s not. It’s legitimate neuroscience from psychologist Dr. Dan Siegel. When you name what you’re experiencing — the emotion, the self-talk, the specific flavor of stuck you’re in — your nervous system actually settles. Your brain does a little shoulders-down exhale. That’s not magic. That’s how brains work.

Stop eating the frog. If you have ADHD, the advice to “do the hardest thing first” is not for you. Starting with your biggest priority puts so much pressure on the task that your brain just refuses. You cannot go from zero to 60 like that. You need momentum first.

Instead: Small tasks. Things that take less than ten minutes and give you quick dopamine hits and build the evidence that hey, look at you, you’re doing stuff. My version of this is tiny tasks before 10: ten minutes of small, completable tasks every morning to signal to your brain that you’re capable and in motion before the big stuff begins.

Create a healthy time crunch. Parkinson’s Law says that work expands to fill whatever time you give it. If you have all day, the task will take all day. If you have 45 minutes before your next anchor point, it might actually get done.

Sarah helps clients build anchor points into their days: natural transition moments that create shorter, more manageable work blocks. A morning routine that ends at 9am. A dog walk at 11. Lunch at noon. These aren’t restrictions. They’re the structure that tells your brain: this is the window, let’s go.

Match your task to your energy type. Not just high energy vs. low energy — actual types of energy. Creative energy. Problem-solving energy. Social energy. Administrative energy. Physical energy.

If you’re creatively fried at 3pm, don’t try to write. But you might still have enough admin energy to update a spreadsheet, answer emails, or organize your files. You’re still moving things forward. You’re just matching the work to what your brain actually has available.

Use a visual timer. Time blindness is real. When your brain can’t feel how long something is going to take, it tends to assume forever. A visual timer — something you can actually see counting down — changes that. It makes time feel concrete. And it reminds you that discomfort is temporary. Five minutes of uncomfortable is just five minutes. You can do five minutes.

Make the reward actually worth it. Yes, reward yourself. No, don’t let yourself have it early. And make the reward match the effort — a Hershey’s Kiss is not the right reward for a full day of hard work. A margarita might be. Scale accordingly.

The Thing Almost Every Woman Business Owner Deals With

I asked Sarah what the most common thread is across all her clients, and she didn’t even hesitate: perfectionism.

Not because perfectionists are broken.

Because they started their businesses doing something they’re really good at and really love — and when you care that much, the perfectionism follows. You want the perfect system. The perfect schedule. The perfect priority. And because there is no perfect anything, the search for it becomes its own form of avoidance.

The fix isn’t to stop caring. It’s to practice giving up a little control in some areas so you can genuinely invest in the ones that actually deserve your full attention. Not everything gets a hundred percent. And once you get okay with that, the paralysis starts to loosen.

Working With Sarah

Sarah does one-on-one and small group executive function coaching through her business, Executive Functioning First. If you’ve been trying to figure out what’s going on in your brain and why the systems everyone recommends aren’t working for you, she’s your person.

She also has a podcast called From Stuck to Started — all about creating simple, realistic systems that actually fit your brain and your life. If you like this one, you’re going to love that one.

Find her at executivefunctioningfirst.com and go find From Stuck to Started wherever you listen to podcasts.

POINT OF THE STORY

Stop trying to squeeze yourself into tools and strategies that weren’t made for you, and start asking: what actually works for how I’m wired?

Love you, mean it. 🖤

SARAH LINKS

— Follow Sarah on Instagram and Threads

— Check out her website

— Learn about her 1:1 coaching and group coaching

— Grab her freebie, The ADHD Action Plan

— Tune in to her podcast, From Stuck to Started

— Her walkout song

BTL LINKS

— Use code “MILLIONAIRE” for $100 off my website copywriting course, Site Series Sprint.

— Join the Point of the Story community on Slack.

— Leave feedback or episode requests in our Suggestions Box.

— To stay up to date with all things Point of the Story, follow on Instagram and Substack.

— Follow me on Instagram, Threads, and Substack.

— Subscribe to my newsletters Tuesday Table of Contents for one marketing tip, once a week and Millionaire Moment for the insider tea on how I plan to make $1 mil in sales by my 31st birthday.

— Check out my website betweenthelinescopy.com.

OTHER LINKS

— Past episode: How to Keep Promises to Yourself (Even With ADHD)

This episode was edited by Adrienne Cruz.

Sage Rountree, author, yoga teacher trainer, endurance sports coach, PhD in English literature, was sitting at her desk one day, doing freelance copy editing, bored out of her mind, procrastinating. She turned around, looked at her bookshelf, noticed that every single book she’d been buying lately had the same publisher’s logo on the spine, spent twenty minutes writing a casual email, hit send, got back to work, and checked her inbox a few hours later to find a response saying they’d love to see a full proposal.

Hours. Not weeks. Not months. Hours.

And it all started because her husband got tired of listening to her complain about a book that didn’t exist yet and said: you have a PhD in English literature, you work in publishing, you’re an endurance sports coach — can’t you write that book? Why not you?

Why. Not. You.

That’s what we’re talking about today.

Rapid-Fire Squirrel Brain Questions

Here’s what we learned about Eden in her round of squirrel brain questions:

If she could gather “nuts” like a squirrel: Orchids. Specifically the ones that are just stems right now, sitting in a window with some hope and occasional water, waiting to re-bloom. She has a whole rotating collection of them.

If she had to get one phrase tattooed on her face: “SMFR” Which stands for Sage Motherf*cking Rountree. It's her alter ego, like Sasha Fierce, like Chris Gaines, like the bigger-than-life version of yourself you call on when you need to do something scary. She gets it monogrammed on her jewelry case, her pill case, anything that will take four letters instead of three. She tried to get it on a license plate and although the DMV took her money and thought about it for a week, they ultimately refunded her. Bummer.

If there were a museum about her, what would be in the gift shop: Champagne and everything that goes with it: pimento cheese, goat cheese with hot pepper jelly, nuts. Silk hair scrunchies in various stages of being stretched out, because she has thick curly hair that goes up in a pineapple-like hairdo every night and those scrunchies are giving it everything they have. She would mainly like to be remembered for the champagne.

Her walkout song: "Jump Around" by House of Pain. As a yoga teacher for the UNC basketball team, a UNC graduate, and a UNC fan, there was truly no other answer.

The Story That Started It All

Sage had been reading every book she could find about yoga as a complement to endurance sports. One day she was complaining, out loud, to her husband (of course), that she wished there was a better book on the topic. He looked at her and said, essentially: shut up. You have a PhD in English literature. You work in publishing. You’re an endurance sports coach. Why don’t you write it?

And something clicked.

Huh. He’s right. Why not me?

A few days later she was procrastinating at her desk, looked at her bookshelf, noticed that all her recent reads shared the same publisher, Velo Press, looked them up online, found their email address, spent twenty minutes writing a short pitch, and sent it. Hours later, they wrote back saying they’d love to see a full proposal and that whatever she sent was clearly going to be well-written.

She thought about who she knew that had already successfully done this exact thing, reached out cold, explained the situation, and asked if she could see their book proposal as a model, so she could reverse engineer what success looked like in this specific arena.

The woman said yes and sent over the file. Sage had her blueprint and she wrote the proposal.

They bought the book.

The whole thing, from complaining on the couch to signed deal, was remarkably fast. Because once she decided why not me, she stopped waiting and started doing.

Why Not Me — And Why We Don’t Ask

Here’s the thing Sage said that I want you to sit with:

“If you don’t ask, what’s going to wind up happening is you’re going to have to sit on the sidelines watching people with less credentials do a shittier job than you could have at the thing you shouldn’t have been hiding your light under a bushel.”

We are trained, especially as women, to be demure and cutesie. To not take up too much space. To not tell people your middle name is motherf*cking, and to just be a good girl and not ask for too much.

And the result is that genuinely brilliant, capable, qualified people sitting on the sidelines watching mediocre people do a worse version of the thing they could be doing. Not because they’re less capable, but because they never asked.

If you don’t ask, the answer is always no. Always.

You don’t get the book deal. You don’t get the job. You don’t get the speaking slot, the collaboration, the opportunity, because you decided for everyone else that the answer was no before you even let them respond.

Imposter Syndrome: Real Feeling, Convenient Excuse

I want to be honest with you about something, and it might sting a little.

Imposter syndrome is real. The feeling is real. But sometimes, not always, sometimes, it becomes an excuse. A reason not to start. A reason to stay comfortable and safe and small while watching other people do the thing you wish you were doing.

I have imposter syndrome, so I can’t post on TikTok. I have imposter syndrome, so I can’t pitch myself for that opportunity. I have imposter syndrome, so I can’t start yet.

Is that true? Like, actually true, deep in your soul? Or is it a story you’re telling yourself so you don’t have to risk anything?

Sage made a point about this that I keep thinking about: the antidote to imposter syndrome isn’t confidence. It’s decentering yourself. It’s getting out of your own head and into the heads of the people you’re there to serve.

She sees this constantly with yoga teachers she mentors. They’re terrified to step in front of a class, and then she reminds them: the class is not about you. It’s not your yoga class. It’s the students’ experience. When you make the students the hero and yourself the guide, something shifts. The nerves quiet down. And, here’s the paradox, the teachers who do this, who genuinely center their students, become the teachers everyone comes back for. Because they felt seen. Because it wasn’t about the teacher.

The same is true for your business, your content, your marketing. Get out of your head and into theirs. What do they need? What problem are you solving? That question does more for your confidence than any mindset exercise I’ve ever tried.

The Things We Use to Count Ourselves Out

Here’s a partial list of reasons people give themselves for not starting:

• I’m too old.

• I’m too young.

• I don’t have enough experience.

• My body doesn’t look right for this.

• I have a chronic illness.

• I’m not credentialed enough.

• Someone else is already doing it better.

• It’s too late.

Sage hears these constantly from people who feel called to become yoga teachers. And every single time, her response is the same: that’s exactly what’s going to make you great.

The 25-year-old who can get her foot behind her head cannot teach a 55-year-old man how to move his body. But the person who has had a double knee replacement? The one who has navigated chronic pain for years? They can meet that student exactly where they are. The limitation is the superpower.

This is true in every field. The thing you think disqualifies you is often the exact thing that makes you the right person for someone who needs what only you can offer. The gap in the market, the underrepresented perspective, the lived experience — that’s not a liability. That’s your pitch.

And if you’re waiting until you fit the mold of what you think the successful version looks like — the yoga teacher body, the perfect credentials, the polished everything — you are going to be waiting for a very long time while someone with less qualifications and more audacity takes the spot that was yours.

The DNF vs. DNS Rule

Sage used a running metaphor that I immediately wrote down because I’m putting it on a poster:

The only thing worse than a DNF is a DNS.

DNF = Did Not Finish.
DNS = Did Not Start.

You can’t finish a race you never entered. You can’t know what you’re capable of if you never try. And the version of you who never starts never gets to find out what the version who does might have become.

I started running at 30. For the first 29 and a half years of my life I told myself I was a bad runner, I had asthma, I hated running, I couldn’t do it. I never tried. That wasn’t a fact about me. That was a story I’d been telling myself so long it started to feel like one, now I am a runner.

Don’t let your DNS pile grow any bigger. Enter the race. You can figure out the rest while you’re running it.

On Anger as Fuel

One more thing from Sage that I want you to have permission to feel:

Sometimes the thing that motivates the why not me isn’t inspiration. It’s anger.

She named it directly: anger is her baseline emotion. And when she sees someone doing something less well than she knows she could do it, she gets pissed. That anger, she said, subdivides into jealousy and envy, and both of them are telling you something.

• Jealousy: someone has something you believe belongs to you.

• Envy: someone has a quality you wish you had.

Both are data. Both are pointing you somewhere. The next time you feel that little flare of ugh, that should be me — don’t push it down. Ask yourself what it’s pointing at. Because it’s usually pointing directly at the thing you should be doing.

Use the spite. Use the envy. Use the anger. Let it light a fire under you instead of keeping you stuck comparing yourself from the sidelines.

Why not you?

Literally. Why. Not. You.

About Sage

Sage Rountree is an author, yoga teacher trainer, endurance sports coach, and the woman behind Comfort Zone Yoga, a virtual yoga studio where she helps people expand what they think is possible for themselves, one class at a time.

Find her everywhere at @sageroundtree and at sageroundtree.com. Her virtual studio is at comfortzoneyoga.com.

Go follow her. Go take a class. And if you see her in person, do not try to kiss her cheek, that’s for SMFR only, and you need the password.

POINT OF THE STORY

The only thing worse than failing is never starting. If someone else has it, it’s possible — and that means it could be you. So ask yourself, “why not me?” and do the damn thing!

Love you, mean it. 🖤

SAGE LINKS

— Follow Sage on Instagram and Threads

— Check out her website and yoga website

— Subscribe to her newsletter, Sage Advice

— Grab her freebies

— Check out her books

— Tune in to her podcast, Yoga Teacher Confidential

— Her walkout song

BTL LINKS

— Use code “MILLIONAIRE” for $100 off my website copywriting course, Site Series Sprint.

— Join the Point of the Story community on Slack.

— Leave feedback or episode requests in our Suggestions Box.

— To stay up to date with all things Point of the Story, follow on Instagram and Substack.

— Follow me on Instagram, Threads, and Substack.

— Subscribe to my newsletters Tuesday Table of Contents for one marketing tip, once a week and Millionaire Moment for the insider tea on how I plan to make $1 mil in sales by my 31st birthday.

— Check out my website betweenthelinescopy.com.

This episode was edited by Adrienne Cruz.

I have been blogging since I lived in a different country and had a husband, what a throwback.

Which means I have blogs out there, currently live, currently getting traffic, that still say husband, that reference a waitlist for a course that launched in January 2021, that link to a version of my services that hasn’t existed in years, that have screenshots of student websites that those students have since completely redesigned…

Over 200 blogs. Some of them are doing great and some of them are an archaeological dig into my past life. Yet, all of them have the potential to be working harder for me than they were.

This is exactly why I hired Eden from Maven Made Copy to update them.

Not write new ones, update the old ones. And today she’s walking you through exactly why that matters and how she does it, so you can decide if you want to DIY it, delegate it, or somewhere in between.

Rapid-Fire Squirrel Brain Questions

Here’s what we learned about Eden in her round of squirrel brain questions:

If she could gather “nuts” like a squirrel: Workout leggings. She has multiple drawers of leggings she could never wear in a single week and her favorite brand is 90 Degree, which she finds at TJ Maxx for $17 (they're $60 on the website, you're welcome). Fun fact: Yogalicious is the same brand!

If she had to get one phrase tattooed on her face: "Introvert." So that when she zones out mid-conversation, people don't think she's being rude, she's just listening. (or dissociating)

If there were a museum about her, what would be in the gift shop: Freida McFadden books (she's read almost all of them, The Inmate is her current fave, The Housemaid is a classic), plants that someone else has to keep alive because she cannot, and homemade treats including Reese's peanut butter cups, ice cream pie, and chocolate-covered cherries that take two weeks to make because you have to let the sugar dough dissolve into the chocolate before you can eat them.

Her walkout song: “The Great Escape" by Boys Like Girls. She said it would wake her up out of a coma and that’s the perfect kind of walkout song.

Why Are We Even Updating Old Blogs?

Eden convinced me, now let me convince YOU.

The SEO reason:

When you publish a brand new blog, Google has never seen it before. It has to discover it, crawl it, figure out what it’s about, and decide where to rank it. That takes time.

When you update an old blog, Google already knows that URL exists. It already has authority. It’s already associated with certain search terms. You’re not starting from scratch — you’re improving something Google has already vetted. It’s like getting a warm referral versus a cold lead. Google is way more likely to trust the updated version faster than a brand new post.

And here’s the kicker: Google treats an updated blog almost the same as brand new content. You’re getting nearly the same SEO benefit of publishing something fresh without having to write the whole thing from scratch.

The practical reason:

You already have the outline. You already did the research. You already wrote the thing. Updating takes a fraction of the time of writing something new — and you’re still telling Google, hey, look over here, I have something new for you.

The money reason:

I have a blog post that has ranked number one for years for the search term “Showit vs Squarespace.” I update it every year. So many people use my Showit affiliate link from that blog that I don’t pay for Showit anymore. My $450 annual plan? Free. Funded entirely by one blog post that I wrote once and keep updating.

That is about as close to passive income as it gets. And it only works because I keep that blog current.

If you have blogs with affiliate links, old offers, broken links, or outdated information, you are actively losing money every single day those blogs stay the way they are.

How to Know Which Blogs to Update First

Not all blogs are created equal. Here’s how Eden prioritizes:

Start with the ones that make you cringe. If you think about a specific blog and feel your stomach drop, that’s your sign. You shouldn’t be sending people to content you’re embarrassed by — same energy as sending people to a website you hate.

Look at your analytics. There are two situations worth paying attention to in Google Search Console: blogs that used to get a lot of traffic but have seen a drop recently (sign they need a refresh), and blogs that cover a great topic or keyword but never got much traffic in the first place (sign that someone else on Google has a better version and you need to level up yours).

Look for missed opportunities. If a blog is already getting decent traffic but doesn’t mention your current offer, your freebie, your podcast, or your newer resources — that’s money sitting on the table. A quick update with relevant links could be doing a lot more for you than it currently is.

The Full Blog Updating Process (Step by Step)

Here’s exactly what Eden does when she updates one of my blogs:

Step 1: Read the whole thing first. Before changing anything, she reads the entire post to get a feel for what’s there. She’s looking for things that are confusing, sections that are underdeveloped compared to others, outdated information, and opportunities to expand. She’s reading it as a reader first, not an editor.

Step 2: Update for the reader. This is where she fixes anything that’s confusing, expands thin sections, removes outdated references (like waitlists for courses that have been live for four years), and makes sure the blog actually makes sense and serves the person reading it in 2026. Voice stays the same — the personal stories and anecdotes are already there. She’s just building on what exists.

Step 3: Update for SEO. After the content is solid, she goes through with an SEO lens. She checks the target keyword — whether it’s already been chosen or whether she needs to research a better one — and makes sure it shows up in the right places: the title, throughout the body, the SEO title, and the meta description. She’s not keyword stuffing. She’s making sure Google can understand what the post is actually about.

Step 4: Fix every single link. She clicks every link in the blog. Every one. She’s checking for broken links, links that go to old pages or waitlists, and links that could be updated to something more relevant. She’s also adding new internal links — to podcast episodes, other blog posts, services, freebies, digital products — anywhere it makes sense to connect the dots.

Quick definition for the SEO beginners: an internal link goes from your site to your site. An external link goes from your site to somewhere else. A backlink comes from someone else’s site to yours. All three matter for Google’s popularity contest, and internal links especially help Google discover your other pages faster.

Step 5: Check the images. Broken image boxes get replaced or removed. Screenshots that are now outdated (like examples from student websites that have since been redesigned) get updated. Alt text gets written or updated for every image — not keyword-stuffed nonsense, just an actual description of what’s in the image so screen readers can access it and Google can understand it.

Side note: my friend Mariah Magazine has a free alt text generator that makes this so much easier. Adrienne’s linking it below.

Step 6: Update the call to action. The CTA at the end of the blog gets a refresh. Old blogs from 2020 are not sending people to a TikTok to find out how to work with me anymore. We’re sending them somewhere actually useful — a sales page, a freebie, a service, something that makes sense for where the business is now.

Step 7: Update the publish date. Yes, really. Yes, it counts. No, it’s not deceitful.

When you update the publish date, the blog moves from page 29 of your blog archive to page one. More visibility for readers. And it signals to Google that something new is on your site and it needs to come back and look at it. You did all this work — you want Google to actually notice.

Step 8: Re-index in Google Search Console. The final step. This is different from submitting your whole sitemap (which you do when your site launches or goes through a major overhaul). This is just flagging one specific page to Google and saying: hey, something changed here, come look at it now instead of whenever you were planning to get around to it. It’s a double text to Google, and it works. Usually re-indexed within a week.

A Few More Things Worth Knowing

You don’t need ancient blogs to make this worth it. Even a blog from a few months ago might have a new offer to link to, a podcast episode to embed, or a freebie that didn’t exist when you wrote it. A year is plenty of time for things to have changed.

Embedding multimedia in your blog matters. Podcast episodes, YouTube videos, even just relevant graphics — Google likes to see that you’re trying to serve different kinds of readers. And practically, if someone lands on your blog and can listen to a related podcast episode right there without hunting for it on Spotify, that’s a better experience. Better experience = Google sends more people your way.

The update doesn’t have to be huge. Five minutes of fixing broken links and updating one call to action still counts. It still signals to Google. It still serves your reader better than leaving it alone. Done is better than perfect, especially when “done” takes five minutes.

If you keep getting the same question, blog about it. And if you already have a blog about it from three years ago, update that one. That question your audience keeps asking you is a keyword. Someone is Googling it. It might as well be your blog that shows up.

Working With Eden

Eden writes and updates blogs for business owners who know they should be doing something with their content but don’t have the time, the energy, or the desire to do it themselves. She also does long-form podcast show notes — basically turning your podcast episodes into full blog posts that live on your site and work for your SEO while you sleep.

You can see her work in real time by going to my blog, where she has been lovingly removing the remnants of my past life one post at a time. We’re making our way downtown. There are 200 blogs and 97 drafts in WordPress purgatory. We’ll get there.

Find her at mavenmadecopy.com and on Instagram and Threads at @mavenmadecopy. Her blog is there too, and she updates it weekly, because she’s a blog writer and she has to practice what she preaches, duh.

POINT OF THE STORY

Your old blogs are assets, not archives. Update them, re-publish them, and put them back to work!

Love you, mean it. 🖤

EDEN LINKS

— Follow Eden on Instagram and Threads

— Check out her website

— Subscribe to her newsletter, Copy Connections

— Grab her free blog content calendar

— Check out her blog writing services

— Read her blog

— Her walkout song

BTL LINKS

— Use code “MILLIONAIRE” for $100 off my website copywriting course, Site Series Sprint.

— Join the Point of the Story community on Slack.

— Leave feedback or episode requests in our Suggestions Box.

— To stay up to date with all things Point of the Story, follow on Instagram and Substack.

— Follow me on Instagram, Threads, and Substack.

— Subscribe to my newsletters Tuesday Table of Contents for one marketing tip, once a week and Millionaire Moment for the insider tea on how I plan to make $1 mil in sales by my 31st birthday.

— Check out my website betweenthelinescopy.com.

OTHER LINKS

— Aerie Offline leggings

— Past episode: Accessibility 101: What Every Online Business Owner Needs to Know with Chloe Arielle

— Mariah Magazine Free Alt Text Generator

This episode was edited by Adrienne Cruz.

She described every bad date she’d ever been on — the guy who talked only about himself, assumed what she wanted, only cared about one thing — and explained that businesses are doing the exact same thing to their customers every single day. Showing up, dumping their entire origin story and feature list, saying buy buy buy, and then wondering why nobody’s converting.

Obviously she had to be here. Her name is Hunter and she is going to fix your marketing by reminding you of every terrible date you’ve ever been on.

But First — The Worst First Date Story

We couldn’t possibly talk about dating your customers without Hunter sharing the date that started it all.

His name is Mark. The year was 2018. They met on Tinder. She’s vegetarian, she picked the restaurant, she had a whole plan. An hour before the date, he texted: hey BT dubs, my car broke down and Uber is gonna be expensive, can you pick me up?

She said yes. Mistake number one.

She picked him up. He talked about himself for the entirety of the meal. Not a single question, not a single follow-up. A full monologue while she inhaled her food faster than she has ever eaten in her life just to get out of there. Then she had to drive him home. He tried to kiss her. Thanks but no thanks, sir.

The biggest lesson: you didn’t even like him. You were so worried about him liking you that you forgot you were allowed to have an opinion too. More on that in a second.

Rapid-Fire Squirrel Brain Questions

Here’s what we learned about Hunter in her round of squirrel brain questions:

What she would gather like a squirrel gathers nuts: Vintage crystal. She is the freak in the thrift shop flicking every glass to make sure it makes the right sound. Her current drinking glass is vintage crystal.

If her face came with a tattoo right across the forehead: “Please don’t ask.” Which, obviously, would make everyone ask immediately. She has seven tattoos and none of them are on her face, yet.

What would be in the gift shop of her museum: Prints of her original artwork, including a gator smoking a cigarette. She’s part of a mural collective with murals throughout the Midwest. She also just started making clay lighter cases and has a, quote, shitty little titty pot.

Her walkout song / sleeper agent song: “Heartbreaker” by Pat Benatar, one of her go-to competitive karaoke songs. Yes, competitive karaoke. She was on a team with a bracket and semifinals and finals and full costumes in Chicago and everything. Look up Succinct City Karaoke if you’re ever in the area. Her sleeper agent song: “Like a G6.”

What Does It Mean to Actually Date Your Customers?

Hunter has built an entire long-term client relationship framework around this concept, and it starts with one very important truth:

The goal isn’t the sale. The goal is the marriage.

Most businesses are optimizing for the transaction. Hunter is optimizing for the lifetime relationship, because when your customer lifetime value goes up, you spend less time, energy, and money chasing new leads. Sustainable businesses are built on people who come back. And people come back when they feel like a human, not a paycheck.

So here’s how the dating framework actually works:

Step 1: Work on yourself first. Before you can attract the right person, you have to know who you are. What’s your vision? Your mission? Your values? Do not bring your unresolved business drama into someone else’s relationship. Get clear on your own stuff before you go looking for theirs.

Step 2: Know your type. “Women-owned service-based businesses” is not a type. That’s walking into a bar and saying you’ll go home with any blonde-haired blue-eyed person there. Too broad. Equally chaotic: “I work with everyone.” That’s walking in and saying you’ll go home with anyone who’ll take you.

You need to know who you’re actually trying to attract — and more importantly, who you’re trying to repel. Repelling the wrong fit is just as important as attracting the right one.

Step 3: Check the chemistry. How are your messaging and visuals working together to attract the right people? Are you positioned in a way that makes your person immediately go oh, that’s for me, and makes the wrong person quietly back away? That’s the goal. Not everyone needs to feel welcome. Just the right ones.

Step 4: Set the mood. This is your buyer journey. What does the experience feel like as someone moves from discovering you to considering you to trusting you? A good date shows up knowing who you are. They’ve paid attention. They’ve done small things that make you feel seen. That’s what you’re building in your marketing, the experience of feeling taken care of before anyone’s even bought anything.

Step 5: The marriage moment. This is the purchase. The serious commitment. The moment they decide: I’m in. Most businesses treat this as the finish line.

It is not the finish line.

Step 6: The happily ever after. Marriage is work. What are you doing after the purchase to make your clients and customers feel like humans and not transactions? How are you showing up for them once the money has exchanged hands? Because if the answer is I delivered the thing, deuces — you are the marketing equivalent of a bad date. You are Mark. Don’t be Mark.

What Makes a Good Date (Marketing Edition)

The number one thing a good date does? Listens.

Not just waits for their turn to talk. Actually listens. Asks follow-up questions. Pays attention to what you’ve said before. Notices details. That’s it. That’s the whole secret.

Hunter’s pitch to me was a masterclass in this. She didn’t send a generic cold pitch. She saw that I talk about hating f*** ass pitches, she noted exactly how I talk, she mirrored it back in her subject line, and she wrote an email that could only have been sent to me. I knew immediately that she had paid attention.

That’s flirting. That’s marketing. They’re the same thing.

And here’s what Hunter said that I haven’t stopped thinking about: use their language, not your paraphrase of it. When your ideal client is telling you exactly how they describe their problem, in their words, in their communities, in their comments — that is a gift. Stop rewording it into some polished marketing phrase. Use what they actually said. It will hit differently every single time because it sounds like you read their mind.

The Consistency Problem

Here’s the practical thing Hunter wants you to fix this week, and I’m going to co-sign it loudly as your website girl:

Go look at every platform you show up on. Would someone who found you from any one of them immediately know it’s the same business?

Same energy. Same voice. Same message. Tailored slightly for the platform, sure — you talk a little differently on LinkedIn than you do on Instagram — but the same person. Not a completely different human being who happens to have the same logo.

If the answer is anything other than a confident yes, you have editing to do.

And I will bet you a hundred dollars it’s your website that’s the most off. Because for some reason, that’s where people go stiff. That’s where the personality disappears and the corporate-speak shows up. And that’s the last thing someone reads before they decide whether to inquire. So if your website sounds like a different, more boring version of you — that’s the gap. That’s where the catfish lives.

On Flirting, Confidence, and Showing Up as Your Full Self

Hunter used to be the awkward person in the corner of the bar. Six feet tall, and still somehow shrinking. Her friend Hannah had to shake her by the shoulders and say: people are already looking at you. Walk in like you know it.

She started standing taller. Wearing taller heels. Showing up in spaces she actually wanted to be in, with people she actually wanted to talk to. She stopped going to sports bars (her words: not a single secure man in sight) and started going to karaoke bars, where she would find a dude willing to go up there and sing the Eminem part of Love the Way You Lie while she sang Rihanna.

And that’s the whole brand lesson: show up in the right rooms as your full self and let the right people find you.

Don’t perform someone else’s flirting style because it seems to be working for them. Don’t follow the bro marketer playbook because they’re the loudest ones teaching it. Loud is not the same as good. Find your version — conversation, humor, video, voice notes, whatever it is — and do that thing fully, genuinely, and consistently.

Because when you can have fun with it, people feel it. And people who feel it become people who buy. And people who buy become people who come back. And people who come back become people who tell everyone they know.

That’s not a funnel. That’s a relationship.

Working With Hunter

If your brand feels like an outfit that doesn’t fit anymore, if it’s not matching the caliber of work you’re actually doing, if it’s holding you back, if it stopped feeling like you, Hunter would love to talk.

She takes clients through her full long-term client relationship framework, from brand development to messaging to the full rebrand if that’s what’s needed. Sometimes it’s minor tweaks. Sometimes it’s starting over. She’ll help you figure out which one.

Find her on YouTube where she creates videos on all of this (she loves it over there and it shows), and connect with her on LinkedIn where she will, in her words, flirt with you in the DMs.

Go find her. Practice your first impression message on her. She is genuinely passionate about this stuff and she will absolutely respond like a good date, with a follow-up question and everything.

All links are below. Adrienne’s got you.

POINT OF THE STORY

Marketing is like flirting, so stop treating people like leads and start treating them like potential dates — listening, showing up consistently, and actually giving a damn.

Love you, mean it. 🖤

HUNTER LINKS

— Follow Hunter on Instagram, Threads, and Linkedin

— Check out her website

— Subscribe to her YouTube channel

— Subscribe to her newsletter

— Tune into her podcast, The Brand Bite

— Her walkout song

BTL LINKS

— Use code “MILLIONAIRE” for $100 off my website copywriting course, Site Series Sprint.

— Join the Point of the Story community on Slack.

— Leave feedback or episode requests in our Suggestions Box.

— To stay up to date with all things Point of the Story, follow on Instagram and Substack.

— Follow me on Instagram, Threads, and Substack.

— Subscribe to my newsletters Tuesday Table of Contents for one marketing tip, once a week and Millionaire Moment for the insider tea on how I plan to make $1 mil in sales by my 31st birthday.

— Check out my website betweenthelinescopy.com.

This episode was edited by Adrienne Cruz.

Natascha specializes in brand strategy with an emphasis on entrepreneurial wellness — and before you click away thinking that’s a vague, Instagram-friendly phrase that means nothing, let me tell you what she actually means by it.

Also, she has the most interesting vocabulary I have ever encountered in a human. She called a chipped frame “revised,” she said “posthumously” in casual conversation, and pay attention to the words coming out of this woman’s mouth because they are genuinely something.

Rapid-Fire Squirrel Brain Questions

Here’s what we learned about Natascha in her round of squirrel brain questions:

What she would gather like a squirrel gathers “nuts”: Thrift and antique finds. Any opportunity to get her hands on old stuff and give it a second life. She recently walked into a thrift store in Iowa, looked around, and thought somebody good died in here because the haul was that exceptional. She had to do a second lap to put stuff back because she didn’t have wall space.

If her face came with a tattoo right across her forehead: “It’s not that serious.” Not for everyone else to see, for herself, in the mirror, every single morning. Because post-it notes aren’t doing it and the forehead version is unignorable.

What would be in the gift shop of her museum: It would be more of an elevated farmer’s market. Mason jars of granola, loaves of sourdough, things she’s sewn or embroidered. Handmade wares with a second life.

Her walkout song: “Pour Some Sugar on Me” by Def Leppard. She used to have a music career, like a real one, Nashville and everything, she’s on Spotify, go stream her after listening to this podcast, of course — and she always imagined walking out on stage to something completely off-brand just for the cognitive dissonance of it. Also it gets her riled up like nobody’s business.

What Is Entrepreneurial Wellness, Actually?

Here’s Natascha’s definition, and I want you to sit with it:

Entrepreneurial wellness starts with what she calls lowercase s success — dismantling the idea that success has to look a certain way and getting really, really clear on what it actually looks like for you.

She has an expensive ergonomic swivel chair. Every time she sits down to work, she gets a running start and swivels into it. That’s what it looks like when your business feels good to live inside.

Contrast that with what most of us are doing: dissociating from our businesses, waking up one day to realize nothing looks like what we wanted, and wondering when exactly it went sideways, and maybe wanting to burn it all down.

Natascha knows this because she lived it.

She had a music career that was working, the streams, the tour life, three hours in a makeup chair every day, and it wasn’t until a massive burnout and a cross-country move that she realized: I don’t actually want this. The hope she carries into every conversation is to catch you before that point.

Your Brand Is Doing One of Two Things

Here’s the thing about your brand that most people miss: it’s not just the aesthetic thing that makes people go ooh, pretty. It’s either reinforcing your own version of success or pulling you toward someone else’s. Those are the only two options.

And if you’re feeling funky about your business right now, if something feels off and you can’t quite name it, Natascha says the answer almost always comes back to one thing: you forgot there’s a human being on the other side.

You’ve been typing into a machine, spitting things out on Instagram, and somewhere along the way stopped asking whether any of it was actually for the right person. Or honestly, whether it was actually for a person at all.

So the first step when something feels off? Come back to the human.

Ask yourself: is this the person I actually want to be talking to? Is this the person I want to be serving? And then, this is the part nobody wants to hear, make peace with the fact that it’s physically impossible for everyone to like you or need you.

You don’t like everyone. You don’t put every product in your cart when you’re walking down a store aisle. You don’t buy every sweater Abercrombie sells. So why would you expect the entire internet to show up for you?

The rest of the people don’t matter. And weirdly, accepting that is one of the most freeing things you can do for your wellness and your brand.

Borrowed Language vs. Owned Language — How to Tell the Difference

This is my favorite part of the whole conversation and the thing I think about constantly in my own work.

Natascha reads every single inquiry form before she gets on a call. And sometimes, before she’s even met the person, she can tell: these words aren’t theirs. They’re regurgitating someone else’s language. Using phrases that sound like online business world in the worst possible way, the kind of sentences nobody says out loud.

Here’s how she knows: the words are discordant with the actual human. When she gets on a video call, she’s not just doing a vibe check, she’s watching how they move through the world, listening to how they talk, noting the specific words they settle on and the quirks in how they explain things. Then she studies the recording. She listens back to get the intonation right. The biggest feedback she gets from clients is: you sound more like me than I sound like me.

And here’s the thing, I do this too. When I’m reading copy someone sent me and something feels off, I couldn’t always explain why. I just knew. The way you can read an inquiry form and think: that’s not how anyone talks out loud. Nobody wrote that sentence in real life. They wrote it like they were filling out a form for the internet.

Nobody’s doing this on purpose. If you don’t identify as a writer, a blinking cursor in front of you is enough to make your brain freeze and default to language you’ve absorbed from everyone else online. The key is reading your copy out loud, every single time, and trusting the feeling when a word doesn’t land right. Because your ideal client is going to have that same intuition on the other side. They won’t be able to explain it either. They’ll just feel like the vibe is weird and not reach out.

Being the Through Line

Here’s Natascha’s core framework and I want you to write it down:

You don’t have to make your brand your favorite color or your aesthetic or your personal mood board. But you do have to be the through line. You are the common thread running through every single part of it.

That means running every element through the lens of: does my ideal client actually care about this? Natascha makes sourdough, embroiders, knits, all of it shows up on her Instagram because it ties back to the slow, sustainable way of working she’s building her brand around. Her yoga teaching? Not on the grid constantly right now, because there’s no way for people to fully experience it yet. She sprinkles it in. She decides how much energy it gets.

And on the color front: your colors aren’t just aesthetic choices. They have psychological impact. They move people in specific directions. So if you have really warm, cozy, espresso-and-cream vibes in your palette but you personally show up like a live wire on every call, there’s going to be a disconnect. People thought they were getting calm. They got you. That’s not bad, you are great, but the mismatch is the problem.

Same goes for copy. I had a student once who loved a brand photographer because of her bold, spicy, zesty energy online. Student books the shoot. Photographer shows up on set quiet and awkward. Great photos, confusing experience. Four years later I’m still using this as an example because the gap between what you present online and who you actually are in person is something people feel immediately.

Two Practical Tips to Leave You With

Natascha closed with two things that I think every single one of you should implement this week:

1. Stop announcing when you’re out of office. Just go. Nobody noticed you left. Nobody’s watching that closely. In fact, most of Natascha’s clients have a perpetual out-of-office on at all times, something along the lines of I’ll get to it when I get to it, here’s where to go in the meantime. Just go. Live your life. Come back when you’re ready.

2. Add a wellbeing notice to your email signature. She has free templates for this (link below). The concept: a small, human note that says essentially: I’m a person, I take care of myself, I hope you do too, my response timeline reflects that. It’s a tiny thing that does a big thing, which is reminding everyone, including you, that this is a human-to-human business. You get to be the first human.

Working With Natascha

Natascha offers two main ways to work together:

The Full Monty — a complete brand build including messaging, strategy, and design for business owners who have never properly invested in branding, can’t articulate what makes them different, and are ready to hand it all over and have it done.

Atelier — her four-week brand and business sabbatical for business owners who have a solid foundation but feel out of alignment. You’re still doing your life, she’s doing it alongside you, and together you’re auditing what exists, figuring out what’s off, and building the version of the brand that actually feels good to live inside.

A note on the word sabbatical: she chose it intentionally. This isn’t slamming the brakes on your business. It’s an intentional pause alongside the work, four weeks of actually asking what you want and building toward it.

Find her wellbeing notice templates and everything else linked below. Give her a follow too, because she lives her version of entrepreneurial wellness out loud every day, except when there’s no good daylight in Iowa. On those days she simply does not exist and we respect it completely.

POINT OF THE STORY

Entrepreneurial wellness isn’t about working less. It’s just a fancy way of saying: stop building a business you hate living inside. Know what success actually looks like for you, and then have the audacity to build that instead.

Love you, mean it. 🖤

NATASCHA LINKS

— Follow Natascha on Instagram and Threads

— Check out her website

— Join her luxury branding retreat, Atelier

— Subscribe to her newsletter and her Substack

— Grab her free wellbeing notices

— Her walkout song

BTL LINKS

— Use code “MILLIONAIRE” for $100 off my website copywriting course, Site Series Sprint.

— Join the Point of the Story community on Slack.

— Leave feedback or episode requests in our Suggestions Box.

— To stay up to date with all things Point of the Story, follow on Instagram and Substack.

— Follow me on Instagram, Threads, and Substack.

— Subscribe to my newsletters Tuesday Table of Contents for one marketing tip, once a week and Millionaire Moment for the insider tea on how I plan to make $1 mil in sales by my 31st birthday.

— Check out my website betweenthelinescopy.com.

This episode was edited by Adrienne Cruz.