We Made This Political Podcast

Ep. 65: Cliff Kayser on Polarity Thinking and Interdependence

Lauren Hall — Mon, 31 Aug 2026 12:01:41 GMT

In this episode of We Made This Political, hosts Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall talk with Cliff Kayser of Polarity Partnerships about “polarity thinking” as an alternative to false either/or binaries in politics and organizational life. Kayser explains polarities as interdependent pairs (like inhale/exhale or activity/rest) that can’t be solved by choosing one side, but can be leveraged over time by maximizing upsides and minimizing predictable downsides using a five-step process: seeing, mapping, assessing, learning, and leveraging. They discuss common polarities in democracy (freedom/authority, justice/due process, diversity/equality, human rights/communal obligations) and leadership (confidence/humility, task/relationship), plus pendulum swings such as centralization versus decentralization. The conversation connects low trust to either/or thinking and explores how AI and social media reinforce binary thinking, arguing humans must ask better questions and develop adaptive, coaching-oriented skills.

00:00 False Binaries Explained

00:32 Meet the Hosts and Guest

02:06 Polarity Thinking Basics

06:50 Democracy and Leadership Polarities

11:23 The Five Step Polarity Process

16:05 Pendulum Swings in Organizations

23:31 Part Whole in Politics

29:08 Why Politics Goes Either Or

38:05 Trust as the Hidden Ingredient

43:56 AI Bias Toward Either Or

53:20 Optimism and Where to Follow

56:36 Closing and Credits

Find Cliff’s Work

Read his Substack Cliff’s Notes.

Connect with him at Polarity Partnerships here.

The Problem with Either/Or Politics

Lura Forcum — Tue, 25 Aug 2026 22:41:26 GMT

Politics loves a binary.

Pro-life or pro-choice.
Black Lives Matter or Blue Lives Matter.
Open borders or closed borders.
Freedom or equality.
Individual or community.

Those choices can be politically advantageous, but they often do a poor job of describing the actual problems we’re trying to solve. Many of the hardest questions in public life aren’t problems with a single correct answer. They’re tensions between values we need at the same time.

Our guest this week, , calls these polarities.

RSVP for a reminder when we go live

Cliff is an expert in polarity management, which uses “both/and” thinking to navigate complex tensions. He teaches leaders how to recognize problems that can’t be solved by simply choosing one side over the other—a skill that is sorely lacking in politics these days.

Lauren often writes about and podcasts about the way politics traps us in false binaries. Instead of asking which team or slogan is right, we might ask: What works? What helps? What reduces harm? What are we losing when we insist on choosing only one side?

We’ll talk with Cliff about how polarity thinking changes those questions—and whether it can help us think differently about politics itself.

Join us for a conversation about escaping false binaries, holding competing values at the same time, and replacing the question “Which side wins?” with a potentially more useful one:

How do we get more of what is valuable on both sides while limiting the costs of each?

🎤 The Problem with Either/Or Politics with Cliff Kayser
🗓️ Friday, August 28 at 10am ET on WE MADE THIS POLITICAL

Ep. 64: Grace Pouch on Slowing Down, Adding Friction, and Forming Better People

Lauren Hall — Mon, 24 Aug 2026 12:03:30 GMT

In this episode of We Made This Political, hosts Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall interview , author of Savoring Childhood: Practical Wisdom for Slowing Down and co-founder of Upstate Unplugged, about why childhood is “for being a child” and how modern life rushes kids (and adults) through it. They discuss instant gratification, fragmented attention, and disembodiment driven by phones, on-demand purchasing, and ed tech, arguing for intentionally “adding friction” through small, incremental choices that build patience, self-control, agency, and purpose.

Grace connects slowing down to spiritual formation and civic life, emphasizing practices that develop the capacity to love, contribute, and respond well rather than merely knowing the right answers. She ends with optimism about Greenville County Schools’ new classroom tech limits and leaders publicly acknowledging overreliance on technology.

00:00 Meet the Hosts
01:12 Introducing Grace Pouch
01:57 What Childhood Is For
03:52 Why Life Feels Too Fast
08:25 Adding Friction Back
11:04 Attention and Presence
15:15 Embodiment and Phones
18:36 Analog Comeback
22:47 Ed Tech Skepticism
26:22 Institutional Pressures
28:25 Culture and Agency
30:27 Local Screen Advocacy
31:46 Small Wins Mindset
33:26 Spiritual Formation Focus
37:11 Discipline Builds Freedom
40:23 Slow Consuming Culture
43:05 Participation Over Consumption
48:16 Savoring Faith Through Play
49:37 Struggle Grows Agency
51:47 Counterpoints For Balance
53:19 Where To Find Grace
55:15 Optimism And Policy Wins
56:24 Closing And Farewell

Additional Resources

“Mothers Are Not Machines” by writer

Renovare Institute for Spiritual Formation

“Greenville County Schools Working to Reduce Screentime in Classrooms” — newspaper article on Rule 1A that Upstate Unplugged advocated to adopt

What Is Childhood For?

Lura Forcum — Wed, 19 Aug 2026 21:09:04 GMT

On We Made This Political, we often come back to the idea that parenting teaches us something about politics—and politics teaches us something about parenting. Both are ultimately about formation: what kinds of people we are trying to become, what kinds of communities we want to live in, and what institutions help or hinder that work.

That’s why our next conversation is with , author of Savoring Childhood: Practical Wisdom for Slowing Down.

📌 Friday, August 21
🎤 10am ET
📝 Bring your questions and comments!

Back-to-school season brings a lot of more: more activities, more technology, more achievement, more pressure to make sure our kids aren’t falling behind. Grace asks a different question: What is childhood actually for?

We’ll talk about what kids gain from waiting and hearing “no,” why unstructured time matters, and the difference between forming a person and producing a successful adult. We’ll also ask whether hurried childhoods are really a parenting problem—or the product of schools, workplaces, technology, sports, and other institutions that make slowing down increasingly difficult.

RSVP for a reminder when we go live

And since it’s August, we’ll end somewhere practical: If the fall calendar is already packed, what’s one thing families can change this school year?

Join us for a conversation about slowing down, paying attention, and letting childhood be childhood.

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Ep. 63: Jess Lee on Race, Identity and the Trouble with Categories

Lauren Hall — Mon, 17 Aug 2026 12:03:40 GMT

On We Made This Political, hosts Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall talk with sociologist Jess Lee (Cal Poly) about how the umbrella category “Asian American” was created as a post–Civil Rights political instrument to gain visibility and protection, yet can distort reality by centering East Asians, masking vast subgroup diversity, and limiting personal possibilities through stereotypes like the “model minority.” Lee explains how broad categories affect representation, resource allocation, and quantitative research, obscuring poverty, first-generation college needs, and shifting census definitions (including Middle Easterners being counted as white and many Asians reduced to write-ins). The conversation also covers interracial and interethnic dating as largely shaped by access and homogamy (especially socioeconomic), sex ratios in immigration flows, and how assimilation is increasingly seen as hybridization that reshapes what “American” means at the local level.

00:00 Breaking Asian Stereotypes
00:34 Meet the Hosts and Jess Lee
02:19 Why Asian American Feels Messy
07:04 Origins of the Asian American Umbrella
14:25 Model Minority Myth Costs
17:27 Who Counts as Asian
22:20 Selection Effects and Stereotype Promise
30:26 Measurement Problems in Research
36:55 Interracial Dating and Homogamy
49:20 Race Boxes and Census Confusion
52:11 Assimilation and Hybrid America
58:34 Local Hope and Closing

The Trouble with Categories

Lura Forcum — Thu, 13 Aug 2026 13:45:04 GMT

Humans categorize. It helps us make sense of the world—but categories can also flatten differences, shape identity, and harden boundaries between people.

In our next We Made This Political, we’re talking with Cal Poly sociologist Jess Lee about the trouble with racial categories, especially the label Asian, which groups together people with vastly different countries, languages, religions, and histories.

📌 Save the date!
🎤 Friday, August 14 at 9am EST

We’ll talk about what broad racial categories help us see—and what they obscure; what interracial dating reveals about how porous those boundaries really are; and what gets gained and lost through assimilation.

And we’ll ask a bigger political question: Can we value our particular identities without turning them into walls between us?

Join us for the conversation—we welcome your comments and observations!

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Ep. 62: William Deresiewicz on Liberal Education, Citizenship, and the Crisis of the University

Lauren Hall — Mon, 03 Aug 2026 12:04:15 GMT

On We Made This Political, hosts Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall interview author and former Yale professor about his essay “Colleges Maybe Try Teaching” and the link between the decline of liberal education and liberal democracy. They contrast liberal education for citizenship with “servile” or purely utilitarian job training, arguing universities’ incentives—research pressure, credentialing, online instruction, politicization, and activism—undermine teaching and truth-seeking. Deresiewicz distinguishes citizens from activists, emphasizing shared political community, humility, patience, courage, and learning to be wrong, cultivated through seminar-style discussion and especially literature’s ability to build theory of mind and moral complexity. They discuss adult alternatives like The Catherine Project and the Matthew Strother Center for the Examined Life, and end with optimism that curiosity and hunger for deep learning are renewable.

00:00 Moral Maturity and Citizenship

00:37 Podcast and Guest Introduction

02:45 Liberal Democracy Meets Liberal Education

05:26 Servile Versus Liberal Learning

09:37 University Incentives and Research Overload

11:31 Politicization and Academic Conformity

13:52 Activists Versus Citizens

23:31 Virtues Learned in Seminar

27:11 Adult Great Books Alternatives

30:29 Reading Decline and Programs That Work

32:14 Seminar Teaching Magic

34:12 Why Online Learning Fails

36:52 The Real Cost of Small Classes

39:50 Credentialism and Teaching Reform

42:35 Mental Health and Fear of Wrong

45:06 Teaching as Craft Not Content

50:19 Literature Builds Theory of Mind

55:28 Tribalism and Moral Complexity

57:24 Wisdom and Living with Tensions

59:04 Hope and Where to Find Him

01:01:30 Closing Credits and Subscribe

Additional Resources

Bill’s website, where you can contact him, read his essays, and order his books

Social psychologist ’s substack essay, “My p-hacking felt like truth”

The website of the American Council on Education, which focuses on effective teaching’s impact on student success

Jennifer Frey on liberal education versus servile education

Ep. 61: Abi Olvera on Abundance and Positive Sum Thinking

Lauren Hall — Mon, 03 Aug 2026 12:04:01 GMT

Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall interview Abi Olvera, writer of the Substack Positive Sum, about the “abundance” movement. Olvera frames abundance as “YIMBY for everything,” emphasizing prioritizing policies that materially affect people’s lives and improving state capacity by removing bottlenecks in housing, daycare, healthcare, workforce licensing, fire codes, and science funding. The conversation highlights examples like certificate-of-need laws and competitor’s vetoes that block new clinics and birth centers, occupational licensing that prevents mobility and locks out people with felonies, and regulatory regimes designed for large corporations that exclude small entrepreneurs. They discuss how debates over regulation often ignore counterfactuals (e.g., AI or safety vs no service), how scarcity thinking fuels partisan “bogeymen,” and how rebuilding public trust through responsive, outcome-focused governance could enable positive-sum progress.

00:00 Introduction and Welcome

03:13 Defining the Abundance Movement

06:00 Certificate of Need Problems

08:52 Expanding the Abundance Agenda

10:34 Occupational Licensing Barriers

12:28 Fire Codes and Safety

13:50 Regulation Debates and Frameworks

16:55 The Counterfactual Problem

18:48 Scarcity vs Abundance Politics

21:11 Government Trust and Efficiency

23:11 Positive Sum Thinking

25:59 Making Abundance Motivating

27:56 Working Class Perspectives

30:50 Funding the Abundance Agenda

31:36 Distinguishing Protections from Obstacles

33:38 Improving Laws and Regulations

36:02 Learning from Missing Data

37:09 Fire Safety Paradox

38:32 Corporate Bias in Regulations

41:57 Gaming the System

43:19 Human Flexibility in Government

44:46 Building Trust in Systems

46:32 Responsive Government and Trust

48:56 Government Success Stories

51:10 Local vs Federal Incentives

53:22 State Department Resilience

55:36 Optimism and Closing Thoughts

Learning How to Be Wrong

Lura Forcum — Wed, 29 Jul 2026 18:47:09 GMT

Join us live as we welcome author and cultural critic for a conversation about citizenship, education, and the overlooked civic skill of learning how to be wrong.

In his essay “Colleges, Maybe Try Teaching!”, Bill talks how we educate people for citizenship. It’s not what you might expect—literature plays as much as role as the founding documents, because it helps people tolerate ambiguity and disagreement.

RSVP for a reminder when we go live

We’ll talk to Bill about his citizen vs. activist distinction, his argument that learning how to be wrong is one of the core civic virtues (and one that current educational approaches overlook), and his long-standing belief that solitude is key to real leadership.

Please join us with your comments and questions this Friday, July 31 at 4pm ET.

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Ep. 60: Lauren and Lura on What Holds a Country Together

Lauren Hall — Mon, 27 Jul 2026 12:04:15 GMT

Lura and Lauren host a duo episode of We Made This Political on what holds a country together as the U.S. marks the Declaration of Independence’s 250th anniversary month. They argue politics should be understood as relationship and shared flourishing, not winner-take-all power, warning that Pyrrhic victories undermine the ability to live and govern together. Hall contrasts national dysfunction with local communities where people quietly maintain civic life, sharing stories about preserving a historic home and restoring an old cemetery. They discuss Hall’s “running democracy on volunteers” theme, the “heroism tax” on underpaid, undertrained small-town mayors, rising threats and harassment, and county clerks caught in national election battles. They link polarization to social sorting and tribal identity, and suggest local conflict-management training and institutional neutrality policies to keep symbolic national fights from capturing local governance.

00:00 Politics As Relationship

01:34 Podcast Premise And 250th

03:10 Founding Community Over State

05:22 Local History In Action

08:50 Growing And Tending Communities

11:44 Volunteer Democracy And Mayors

13:28 Heroism Tax In Boroughs

20:35 Clerks Elections And Pay

24:54 Support Systems For Local Roles

30:31 Winner Take All Spiral

32:17 How Polarization Sorting Happened

33:41 Identity Threat Politics

35:39 Myths About The Other Side

37:19 Breaking The Sorting Cycle

39:42 Beyond Winner Loser Thinking

42:43 Local Governance Lowers Heat

45:50 Tools For Town Boards

49:19 Rebuilding The Leadership Pipeline

51:46 Influencer Politicians Rise

57:12 Rewarding Deliberation Again

59:10 Finding Hope Locally

01:04:13 Closing And Next Episode

Live Monday: Abundance, Polarization, and Getting Out of the Way

Lura Forcum — Fri, 24 Jul 2026 14:56:00 GMT

We’ve all heard the word abundance lately. But what does it actually mean? And how can it offer different way of thinking about our politics?

This Monday, July 27 at 4:00 p.m. ET, we will be joined by for a live conversation about abundance, polarization, and the systems that either help people solve problems—or get in their way.

RSVP for a reminder when we go live

We’ll explore questions like:

Is polarization partly a product of scarcity?
When do rules protect us, and when do they become obstacles?
What does an abundance mindset mean for housing and healthcare and more?
How can institutions create the conditions for people and communities to flourish?

As always, we’d love to have you join us live. Bring your questions, and be part of the conversation.

📅 Monday, July 27
🕓 4:00 p.m. ET

See you then! — Lura and Lauren

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Ep. 59: Tony Williams on the Debating the Declaration

Lauren Hall — Mon, 20 Jul 2026 12:04:34 GMT

Lura and Lauren host Tony Williams of the Bill of Rights Institute to discuss his book Divided Over the Declaration and the long history of Americans arguing over the Declaration of Independence. Williams explains that debates over the document’s meaning have shifted across eras, with different generations emphasizing consent, equality, and other principles, and argues that ongoing disagreement is a core feature of self-government rather than a threat. They focus on modern misunderstandings of “all men are created equal,” and Williams cites Jefferson’s excised anti–slave trade passage as textual evidence that “men” meant human beings, even though equality was not realized for all. The conversation turns to polarization, social media, weakened civil society, and practical steps to rebuild civic friendship through local community engagement.

00:00 Welcome and Setup
00:31 Meet Tony Williams
01:05 Why the Declaration Matters
03:52 Modern Misreadings of Equality
06:10 Slavery Era Declaration Debates
07:26 Debate as Self Government
10:17 Did Jefferson Mean Universal
13:15 Draft Clues on Slavery
15:28 Parenting and Civic Virtue
19:09 Ordered Liberty Today
20:21 Consent of the Governed
21:19 Social Media and Extremes
22:15 Rebuilding Civic Life
24:56 Zero Sum Politics Fallout
27:20 Declaration as Covenant
30:56 Liberty Meets Community
33:30 Civic Habits You Can Practice
36:30 America Divided Then and Now
40:06 Optimism and Better Angels
42:02 Where to Find Tony
43:18 Closing and Declaration Challenge

Resources

Ready Tony and David Bobbs’ book Divided Over the Declaration

Find Tony at the Bill of Rights Institute, including free resources for educators and civic leaders

Americans Have Always Argued About the Declaration

Lura Forcum — Tue, 14 Jul 2026 21:26:07 GMT

This week on We Made This Political, we’re joined by writer Tony Williams, senior fellow at the Bill of Rights Institute and co-author of Divided Over the Declaration: America’s Fight Over Freedom and Equality.

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At the 250th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence, many Americans treat the document as a source of national unity. Tony’s work tells a more complicated—and perhaps more interesting—story. From the founding to the present day, Americans have fiercely disagreed about what the Declaration means, who it applies to, and what freedom and equality require of us.

In this conversation, we’ll explore:

Whether disagreement over fundamental values is a threat to democracy—or a normal part of the American experiment
Historical examples of civic renewal after periods of deep conflict and mistrust
And, because we always ask, what the Declaration might have to say about parenting

One of the most striking themes of Tony’s book is that disagreement itself is not new. Americans have long debated the meaning of freedom, equality, justice, and citizenship. The question is not whether we disagree, but how we live together when we do.

If you’ve ever wondered whether our current divisions are unprecedented—or what history can teach us about repairing our civic culture—this is a conversation you won’t want to miss.

Listen here this Friday, July 17 at 10am ET

As always, thank you for listening, sharing, and helping us build a healthier civic culture.

— Lura & Lauren
We Made This Political

Ep. 58: Lauren and Lura on Political Grief

Lauren Hall — Mon, 13 Jul 2026 12:01:45 GMT

In this solo episode of We Made This Political, Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall explore “political grief”: the sadness beneath political anger when a party, institution, or identity that once felt like home changes or reveals hypocrisy. They discuss how anger can mask vulnerability, share their own politically “homeless” backgrounds across Democratic, progressive, libertarian, and conservative intellectual traditions, and describe grief over MAGA’s damage to conservative principles and institutions such as rule of law and checks and balances. They also critique Democratic failures, elite insularity, culture-war politics, and gaslighting voters’ lived experiences. The conversation emphasizes pluralism, coalition-building, and restoring feedback between voters and government through community ties, electoral reform, and practical civic actions like contacting representatives and building local relationships.

00:00 Political Grief Intro
01:32 Anger Hiding Grief
03:36 Lura’s Party Journey
07:22 Lauren’s Political Homelessness
10:45 Mourning Conservatism and Institutions
15:13 Hypocrisy and Immigration Shock
17:50 Both Parties’ Dysfunction
21:30 Principles and Being Cast Out
23:40 Elites and Voter Disconnect
28:40 Why Democrats Struggle to Coalition
30:48 Progressive History Theory
32:36 Pluralism and The Other Side
34:59 Lego Batman Tease
35:30 Batman Joker Polarity
37:14 Political Grief in DC
38:07 Congress Dysfunction Incentives
41:54 Fragile Systems Feedback
44:24 Community and Chosen Family
49:24 Independents and Party Homogeneity
52:16 Channeling Grief into Action
55:20 Potlucks and Rebuilding Trust
58:17 Rightsizing Politics and Citizenship
01:00:47 Practical Civic Engagement
01:02:06 Closing and Next Episodes

Ep. 57: [Archives] Fourth of July Special

Lauren Hall — Mon, 06 Jul 2026 12:02:47 GMT

From the archives: We’re reposting one of our favorite conversations from last year to celebrate the 4th while we take some time off with our families. Enjoy!

In this special July 4th episode, we explore what patriotism looks like in 2025 and what we are truly celebrating on Independence Day. Lura and Lauren emphasize the importance of community, civic engagement, and the unique diversity of American life. They share personal stories and reflections on local events, discussing how shared spaces and sustained interactions with diverse groups can reduce prejudice and foster unity. The conversation also touches on the challenges of balancing personal responsibilities and community involvement, the historical context of American values, and the evolving role of the presidency.

Recommendations for celebrating include listening to Aaron Copland's music* and reading Frederick Douglass's speech, 'What to the Slave is the Fourth of July?'

00:00 Introduction and Guiding Questions

00:11 Defining Patriotism in 2025

00:42 Local Celebrations and Community Spirit

04:39 The Importance of Intergroup Contact

08:39 Challenges of Modern Socialization

10:26 Hosting Community Events

15:27 Historical Context and Moral Ambiguity

22:14 Parenting and Societal Expectations

30:11 Local vs. National Politics

36:58 Exploring Race Relations and Social Behavior

37:04 Acts of Kindness in Airports

38:00 Reflecting on American Values and Utopianism

39:17 Polarization and Perception of America

41:28 Immigrants' Perspective on America

46:14 The Role and Power of the President

55:40 The Importance of Local Communities

57:18 Final Thoughts and Recommendations

* Erratum: Lura states incorrectly in the podcast that Aaron Copland was not an American. He was the child of Lithuanian immigrants and studied extensively in Europe. That may be the source of confusion, or it could just be confusion. Lura apologizes for the error.

Ep. 56: Maryam Mehrtash on Reinventing the Village

Lauren Hall — Mon, 29 Jun 2026 12:02:18 GMT

Lauren Hall and Lura Forcum host We Made This Political with guest Maryam Mehrtash, a former marketing executive (Disney, Marvel Studios, 20th Century, and the Paramount+ launch) who pivoted after a late-2023/early-2024 layoff into writing, Substack (This Is Not a Memo), speaking, and authoring her first book on reinvention, leadership, and how systems are failing people.

She describes losing her identity after job loss, the pressures of transactional corporate culture, and a heart attack at 42 that she links to compounded chronic stress plus genetic risk (elevated lipoprotein(a)) and elevated LDL; she urges awareness of women’s heart-attack symptoms and Lp(a) testing. The conversation centers on her essay “We Were Never Meant to Do This Alone,” critiquing American self-sufficiency myths, discussing lost “villages,” workplace and policy gaps (childcare, paid leave, healthcare), community-building practices, and potential admin-load relief via AI.

00:00 Meet Maryam Mehrtash
00:41 From Disney to Reinvention
02:20 Layoff and Identity Shift
05:16 Heart Attack Wake Up Call
13:05 Values Boundaries and Betting on Yourself
18:59 We Were Never Meant Alone
26:26 Rehumanizing Work and Policy
32:38 Compounds and Modern Villages
39:22 AI and the Invisible Load
43:13 How to Build Your Village
49:12 Where to Find Maryam
50:11 Closing and Optimism

Resources

Find Maryam on Substack.

The Myth of Doing It All

Lura Forcum — Tue, 23 Jun 2026 19:27:44 GMT

This Friday on We Made This Political, we’re joined by writer, speaker, entrepreneur, and leadership strategist !

Maryam’s work explores ambition, belonging, motherhood, and the relationships that sustain us. Through her Substack newsletter This Is Not A Memo, she challenges the myth of self-sufficiency and asks what it means to build a flourishing life in a world that increasingly expects us to carry every burden alone.

RSVP for a reminder when we go live

Inspired by her essay We Were Never Meant to Do This Alone, we’ll explore why so many people feel exhausted despite doing everything “right,” what we’ve lost as our local relationships and communities have weakened, and why success may depend less on individual achievement than on the people who help us carry the weight.

We’ll also talk about power, ambition, parenting, community, and the practical steps we can take to rebuild the kinds of relationships that make life more resilient, meaningful, and human.

Join us live for what promises to be a thoughtful conversation about the tension between independence and interdependence—and why none of us were meant to do this alone.

Join us with your questions and comments 📅 Friday, June 29 at 12pm ET 📅 or catch the episode when it drops next week on your favorite podcast platform.

— Lura and Lauren

Ep. 55: Scott Warren and Morgan Ramsey-Elliot on Conservative Voters and Saving Democracy

Lauren Hall — Tue, 23 Jun 2026 12:03:29 GMT

Lauren Hall and Lura Forcum host Scott Warren (SNF Agora Institute at Johns Hopkins) and Morgan Ramsey-Elliot (ReD Associates) to discuss their report, “Faith, Freedom, Family and Place: An Ethnographic Study of Conservative Americans’ Relationships to Democracy”. They explain why common “save democracy” messaging often falls flat, arguing that democracy means different things across audiences and can be heard as protecting the status quo or advancing a partisan progressive agenda. Drawing on deep fieldwork, they describe a moral foundation—faith, freedom, family, and place—and three conservative orientations (actor critics, system critics, and foundation defenders) that predict tolerance for democratic norm deviation. The conversation highlights how local civic life, institutional encounters, COVID-era experiences, and information ecosystems shape distrust, and stresses listening, specificity, and honest reckoning with institutional failures.

00:00 Welcome and Guests

00:44 Why Study Conservatives

01:36 Limits of Polling

04:18 Red Associates Approach

07:03 Save Democracy Messaging

10:41 Democracy Means What

17:03 Faith Freedom Family Place

18:43 Inside the Ethnography

24:00 Values in Daily Life

28:32 Types of Conservative Critics

30:36 Crisis Segments Explained

31:41 Bridge Building Strategies

33:51 Elite Messaging And Slippage

36:23 COVID Trust Breakdown

38:19 Everyday Institutional Failures

42:06 Illiberalism Perception Gap

45:36 Ethnography Interview Method

49:02 Why Outrage Persuasion Fails

51:09 Report Reception And Backlash

54:46 Dissemination And Hope

Resources

Read the full report Faith, Freedom, Family, Place: An Ethnographic Study of Conservative Voters’ Relationships to Democracy here: https://conservativestudy.redassociates.com/

Why "Save Democracy" Doesn't Work

Lura Forcum — Wed, 17 Jun 2026 12:01:09 GMT

Have you ever thought about what it would be like to follow someone around all day to see how they live their life and why they think the way they do? The research team did exactly that and the result is an ethnographic study on conservative voters called Faith, Family, Freedom, Place.

This week on the podcast, we’ll talk with lead author of the SNF Agora Institute at Johns Hopkins and coauthor Morgan Ramsey Elliot of ReD Strategies about observing the daily lives of dozens of people along with their friends, families, and neighbors and interviewing them to better understand how they think about American democracy.

RSVP for a reminder when we go live

One of their main findings is that the “Save Democracy” messaging of the left and many pro-democracy reform organizations falls flat because of a lack of faith in the democratic institutions that democracy depends on.

Our conversation with Scott and Morgan will examine

• Why “save democracy” messaging doesn’t resonate
• What makes an institution legitimate in the eyes of ordinary Americans
• What ethnographic research reveals that polling can’t

Most importantly, we’ll talk about what happens when researchers approach people with curiosity, seeking real understanding instead of diagnosis.

Join us live this Friday, June 19th at 9am — and bring your comments and questions. As always, the final, edited podcast will be published Monday of next week.

—Lura and Lauren

Thanks for supporting We Made This Political! Please help us grow by sharing the podcast with people who might like to listen.

Ep. 54: Paul Kane on Congressional Dysfunction, Media Decline, and Broken Incentives

Lauren Hall — Mon, 15 Jun 2026 12:15:33 GMT

Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall host We Made This Political with congressional reporter of NOTUS, who explains how he moved from planning for law school to a 26-year career covering Congress and what makes a good congressional reporter. Kane argues that communications technology and the collapse of local and regional news have reshaped Congress, enabling “radical transparency” without reliable context and weakening accountability, illustrated by Rep. Tom Kean Jr. not being seen publicly since March 5th.

The conversation covers low legislative output in 2025 and recent Congresses, the Senate’s procedural paralysis and focus on nominations, changing incentive structures favoring fundraising and attention over legislating, and norms that no longer enforce behavior because punishment can be monetized. Kane critiques media’s focus on controversy, highlights Gabe Fleisher’s Wake Up to Politics, and ends with cautious hope in growing, less click-driven journalism and stories like Sen. Lisa Blunt Rochester’s.

00:00 Welcome and Guest Intro
00:55 Paul Kane Origin Story
02:30 Reporting Lessons From Local Politics
05:03 What Makes a Great Hill Reporter
09:35 How Congress Changed With Phones
14:23 Radical Transparency Tradeoffs
15:53 Missing Congressman Case Study
20:03 Low Information Voters and Swings
24:15 Approval Ratings and Cynicism
27:03 Why Lawmaking Has Stalled
32:09 Coalitions to Gridlock
33:14 Fundraising and Selection Effects
35:19 McHenry’s Incentive Shift
42:13 Rules Fail and Punishment Backfires
45:42 Chaos Era New Normal
48:48 Media’s Role in Polarization
53:50 Independent News and New Models
57:00 Hopeful Signs and Closing

Resources

Find Paul’s Work:

Paul’s final Washington Post column: https://wapo.st/4uBtWDU

Pauls’s interview with former Representative Patrick McHenry (NC-10): https://535.news/interviews/patrick-mchenry-jun-3-2026/

Norms in Congress (NOTUS): https://www.notus.org/analysis/congress-there-are-no-rules-mike-johnson-republicans-legislation

Paul’s NOTUS bio and article listing: https://www.notus.org/paul-kane

Paul’s Blue Sky profile: https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:vqueu3b2o4xv4kcscj4dxdwf

Paul’s X/Twitter profile: https://x.com/pkcapitol

Other Writers Discussed in the Episode:

Gabe’s Wake Up to Politics Newsletter